to be racism out there. but to note that you're doing it for a reason and it just be strong-willed and wrongheaded in recent years, the franchise is featured its first black leads and last september, the golden bachelor, which showcase older contestants debut all right, today's shout-out is to a woman in oklahoma working to preserve the language and culture of the muskogee nation. >> eli rolon chain is a director of the muskogee language preservation program right now that groove estimates there are between 250400 fluent muskogee speakers in the world our elders meal, they were fortunate boarding schools where they weren't allowed to speak. >> muskogee and they were punished for speaking and then those that didn't get forced into a boarding school even at their public schools, their teachers would punish them for speaking and their native languages role in chang has gotten the language curriculum

into 30 public schools and launch zoom classes that are open to everyone and a new website. >> eli role in chiang and the team at the muskogee language preservation program i see you thanks for joining me today. i'll see you back here next saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern smerconish up next it's when not if i'm michael swear kaddish and philadelphia, that's my assessment. >> after watching estates interview on abc with president biden, as i tweeted in real time, i credit george stephanopoulos for civilly asking the right questions. people will see what they want, but you really can't say this is reassuring i'm not sure which was worse. president biden unsure whether he watched the debate that caused this crisis or lacking the self-awareness to know the impact of that answer. president biden's withdrawal from the race has an increasing

feeling of inevitability that's because his problem is on fixable what al-quds him eventually comes for us all. and when it does, the hands of time cannot be unwound the reason this is resonating with so many is that we've all been there in our own lives with loved ones and in the case of a president, the media glare will now chronicle every misstatement, each misstep, including by those outlets that until now, we're willing to look the other way. unscripted moments will continue to make news. it's all rather sad and unsustainable. and it didn't have to end this way. the president is the one who decided to seek a second term, which would end with him being age 86 but here we are the campaign is in a doom loop, in a post debate, cnn survey within half of democrats and democratic leaning voters said the party has a better shot at the presidency with someone other than biden that viewpoint is now shared by members of congress editorial board's donors and opinion leaders. the

washington post is reporting the democratic senator mark warner is attempting to assemble other democratic senators to ask the president to exit the race. as this cycle repeats itself with more seeking his withdrawal, fewer unassociated with the president, or forcefully pushing back the increasing weight of opposition to his candidacy is overwhelmed the message of his campaign. just how bad is it? well, for once, even donald trump realizes that he is best served staying out of the limelight now, on this saturday, july 6, 2024, the question seems to be, when and not if but this is not necessarily bad news for democrats. nine days ago in real time during the now infamous debate, i tweeted this, does donald trump lose by winning tonight? does this debate spur a switch to a stronger democrat with a better chance of beating trump in other words, i was saying, be careful what you wish for

donald trump. the crisis might produce a more formidable opponent the question will soon be h2 and by what means becomes the democratic nominee president biden cannot control his delegates. he cannot mandate that they support vice president kamala harris. but as a practical matter, if he endorses her, she will be the democratic nominee but is that in her or the party's best interests ultimately, is that in the nation's best interest? the poll question today, it's where kaddish.com asks, which would make kamala harris a stronger democratic presidential nominee. acclimation or competition i argue the latter a kamala harris who fights for and earns the democratic nomination will be sharper and stronger than 100 wins by acclamation. she was not a strong candidate when she sought the nomination in 2020 ironically, her one moment in the spotlight came when she

challenged then vice president biden for a decades old position on busing that and her reversal of her willingness to abolish private health insurance, which she'd signaled when raising her hand in agreement with bernie sanders? she dropped out of the race before a single vote was cast, but was nevertheless put back in the vp mix because biden had said that he would select a female running mate if the nomination is handed to her, she will remain an untested political commodity. the first time that she'll be held accountable for the vice presidential assignments. she was given namely tackling the root causes of the border crisis will be when confronted by donald trump instead, let's see her onstage now. opposite gavin newsom and josh shapiro. gretchen whitmer, amy klobuchar, secretary pete andy, beshear, rafael warnock, jared polis. it's a deep bench. but none of them will step forward if it's handed to harris how then will democrats know that

they've mounted the strongest challenge to donald trump? instead, let harris sharpen her skills in town halls and debates, speeches to state delegations. i don't know, but i strongly suspect that the cable outlets, including this one, would ensure that it all happens in prime time the chicago convention, it would be the most exciting political gathering of the modern era the nation would be in throttled and you think it's all undoable. well, just remember this in the uk, they just stage an entire election in six weeks democrats have more, time than that to feel their strongest ticket. but it should come from a contest, not an anointing i want to know what you think godess were kaddish.com answer today's poll question, which would make kamala harris is stronger, democratic presidential nominee acclimation or competition of course not everyone thinks that biden should go stuart stevens is a former republican strategist and consultant. he worked on five presidential campaigns including george w

bush and mitt romney. he's now a senior advisor to the lincoln project. he argues in the atlantic that the push to oust biden is ridiculous. pointing to biden's record is president as saying far more about his fitness to serve that a 90 minute debate ever could meanwhile, pulitzer prize winning historian and applebaum says, it's time to roll the dice in her piece in the atlantic, she argues, there's too much at stake for democrats to stick with a fading candidate. both join me now stewart, good to have you back. you said in the new york times it's easy to be for your guy on good night's. it doesn't mean much the test is on bad night's. if joe biden's simply had a bad night, i'd be inclined to agree with you. what are you thinking now in light of the stephanopoulos interview? >> i basically michael with all due respect, disagree with about everything you just said i think the audit i think that

we have to look at some reality here the last time the white house has held by a party without any come, but with 1988, that's 36 years, hasn't happened this century that's probably for a reason. no president with these economic numbers has ever lost three elections since we've been keeping economic numbers the greatest weakness in any party is dissension for the nomination was an incumbent president so you get somebody like pat buchanan, who runs against george bush and 92 92, 90 wasn't going to threaten him but he cost him probably the election what cost jimmy carter the election probably take kennedy running. when you look at what allan lichtman called the keys to the presidency being challenged within the party is one of the key determinants. if you can win or not i don't think that

what has happened in that debate, if president biden stays and i don't think it's what people are going to be talking about the last week. this is a long campaign he has a very weak opponent with a lot to talk about. now, look, i don't understand how that inner workings of the democratic party work i mean, i know more about hip hop than i do about that. and i know more about i hop in hip hop. but it it, seems, to me that there is no reason based upon that, not to continue to support what has been i think fair to say the most successful first-term president since we're watching at applebaum, your thoughts or what so first of all, let me begin by agreeing that biden has had a fantastic presidency his list of accomplishments as long i've just come from england where it's clear there that the united states has

leaped ahead almost all other developed countries in speed of growth since the, since the coronavirus pandemic i admire his foreign policy. he's been an excellent leader of the free world and i use those terms and in full meaning, i mean, he's, he's he's defended. he's he's organized the defense if ukraine in a really spectacular manner, he is a great administration however, an election is not about the past. it's about the future, it's about, it's not a joke. budget on his first term. it's about what comes next. and in my atlantic article, i argued that a a, a political party that was really cold blooded and that said, what do we have to do to win? would look at, would look at the math, look at the states, and say there are three states that we need to win. we need michigan, we do it was constant and we need pennsylvania. so let's look at the three governors of those states. let's let them compete. and by the way, i

agree with you that you could make not only could you make the democratic national convention really interesting and fun, you would also ruin the republican national convention because they'd have no opponent to attack. you could, you could have the three of then run. you could, you could of course, have harris run as well. you could have a short competition. you could have maybe president obama and hillary clinton being the moderators. you could, you could do town halls. you would have an exciting competition. you would have people arguing and then you would have a winner and then it would be possible after you have voted the convention for people to unite behind the winter. and remember that democrats light competitions. remember they, they liked that obama emerged from from almost nowhere that clinton emerged from almost nowhere, that they both emerge to become president through the primary process that's how joe biden became president four years ago, because he want a primary, a democrat crowds like primaries, they like seeing who wins them and they like then uniting behind them. and i think that is given the

circumstances, given that as you said the situation is not going to improve and it could even get dramatically worse. i think now is the moment to make that leap? >> last night, the president was asked by george stephanopoulos, what happens if a delegation come to you, a group of democrats that you respect, and they say that they think it's time to go, let's all watch the response if you can be convinced that you cannot defeat donald trump, will you stand down i'm not the lotto mighty comes on, tells me that i might do that. >> well, on a more practical level. washington post just reported in the last hour that senator mark warner's is assembly a group of senators together to try convince you to stand down because they don't think you can win mark as a good man we've never had that. >> he also tried to get the nomination marx not mark, and i have a different perspective. i respect to and if chuck schumer

and hakeem jeffries, nancy pelosi, come down and say, world worried that if you stay in the race, we're going to lose the house the senate. >> how will you respond? are just going to detail what i've speaking to all of them in detail, including jim climber everyone. >> it all set it should stay in the race stay in the race. no one said not. let people say, i should leave. but if they do not come to do you sure. yeah. i'm sure look i mean, if the more to mighty cannot sit yogurt out of the race or gather race. and lord on monday is not i'm about stuart. at what point is it's selfish. i mean, he doesn't seem to be in touch with the polling data that all tells the same story. the polling data would all have to be wrong no, that's not right. if you have any voters that started watching this debate or joe biden voters and

ended up at the end of that debate donald trump voters not very many. in fact, he went up with independence you have a candidate and donald trump, who i think had a spectacularly bad debate, arguably worse than joe biden's i'll, donald trump had to do about that well, that's not my fault. i think people should talk about it. and i think that in campaigns, you can direct what people talk about when you run campaigns. and there's a long campaign to be run here but think about this. if donald trump had gone up there and said i never run for office before, i learned a lot as president, it was a turbulent presidency. i'm going to do better next time if he had provided some sort of economic plan, he would have walked off that stage this charter candidate. i think both candidates walked off stage. weaker candidates and they were when they walked on so the question then becomes, who can go forward with the stroke?

august message and look, i i love and applebaum, i read everything she says. i passed out twilight of democracy, like watchtowers and the airport. so it's very uncomfortable for me to be an any sort of opposition here i just look at it from someone who works in campaigns and in the real world of trying to put together an organization to get that organization inspired it's very, very difficult if you try to change at this point and there is a sort of underlying message here that i think is being overlooked, that the democrats would have to face. and that is donald trump said that our dai wasn't qualified to be president looks like he was right. okay. we'll try again. we'll get i'll get it right so much that i have. so what said. i wanted to say in response to that, but i want to give and the floor so that she can respond. go ahead and so i

don't think this is about who likes to this is an argument. it's a legitimate argument about who is best placed to win because actually that's the only thing that matters. it matters that we prevent someone as chaotic as dangerous as donald trump from ever becoming president. again in order to do that, we need to have, we need everybody united. i agree with that. and we need people to feel that their candidate is the right one. we need people to be inspired to vote. they can't, they can't say, well, oh, they're both a bunch of old guys. i'm not interested we need people to get out and work for the president. and i think having a, having a primary, having a voted the convention would do that for people applebaum, stuart stevens, i appreciate you both. thank you for being here what are your thoughts? hit me up on social media. i'll read some responses throughout the course of the program from the world of youtube. if biden is out as the candidate, then the question is why can he stay in

the white house? democrats need to allow harris to test-drive the country as the hot spare joe, the nerd. i don't think that happens. by the way. i don't think it necessarily follows. i think you can say that you have confidence in his capability today, maybe diminished confidence, but that you're so concerned as to how he looks in four years, he'd be 86 at the end of that second term. and in that you don't have confidence consequently he can remain but can't run for the second term. i don't think one necessarily follows the other. i can't wait to see how you're voting on today's poll question. go to summer cottage.com and tell me which would make kamala harris a stronger democratic presidential nominee. would it be acclimation or competition up ahead for the 51 million people who watched the debate, some might have said, hey, i told you so over biden's performance, but many others perhaps we're left wondering how come i didn't know the situation. was this bad, was the media complicit in

underplaying president biden's situation. former new york times executive editor jill abramson will be here to talk about that issue. she's next. and don't forget to sign up for the newsletter when you're voting, it's were kaddish.com for which scott status of the dallas morning news and chicago tribune sketched this the republican national convention starts monday to july 15th, and eight months. cnn. this summer snacking just got serious introducing new $3 footlong divers world might not be ready for them. but at $3 a pop, your wallet definitely is when you're the leader, is ask the cleanup and respiration. >> how do you make like it never even happened? happened happened brand but whatever

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>> if you've written a book, will publish it for you. if you've written a book page publishing can help you through the process. >> we cut through the confusion of the publishing world to make it easy for you, call 8056 30741 right out of the gate. it was clear that something wasn't right with president biden and the debate as millions of viewers watch this, some those, they were left wondering why they hadn't seen this side of the president before, was the media asleep at the switch on his condition, former new york times executive editor jill abrams let's told semaphore that journalists have failed in their most basic duty, which is to hold the most power accountable. and that democrats have no leg to stand on now, when they blame the media for overreacting and the aftermath, jill abramson, political columnist for the guardian, joins me now. so assess, give me some more detail here on how you see the mean hideous handling of president's mental acuity pre-debate pre-debate. >> i do think there was a failure on the part of the news

media because part of holding power accountable is providing voters with the information they need about fitness for office of both candidates and personally, i think there are big questions about both of them. all i can tell you is that the new york times, when i was senior editor there, we had a this dr. larry k. altman who every presidential cycle did a thorough scrub based on medical information and his medical background of what the physical condition of the two candidates were and he'd start working on this months before the election and why no news organization took it upon itself to undertake an investigation. i don't care that neither candidate would cooperate. you don't let that stop you. when

did that stop reporters in the house from getting the story? you needed to have a team of very well informed medical n political reporters doing a deep dive into the health of trump and biden. and i write february, if you're if you're right, that the media was a wall with regard to biden how much of it was driven by the fear that they'd be helping donald trump if they were to report on these issues. and i asked that because i know from my experience, if there's some type of a gaffe on the part of president biden. and i show it or discuss it i'm overwhelmed in a social media context by people who say, oh all you're doing is helping donald trump. well, how am i not supposed to have a candid conversation? does that play a role? >> it plays a part for sure. and right now in real time,

every reporter who was on this story and his writing about the decline in biden's cognitive abilities is facing an onslaught of social media. krischer racism today, this hour, of course, no one saying that's pleasant, but come on. we've never let that make us abdicate our first amendment duties before any, linskey from the wall street journal was my guest here just a week ago. she shared the by-line on i think it was june for when the journal came forward and headed in this subject matter. and i know that there was enormous blowback from the white from the white house and they said this was a republic airman hit job and your warm, right. so how so? i have this question for jill abramson. how much of the media's unwillingness to get into this subject before was driven by a fear that they'd be cut off from whitehouse access well, i real

i know that that was a factor. i don't think it is the dominant factor. and hat tip to annie linskey and the team at the journal. they not only faced blowback from the white house, but criticism from their competitors in the press i heard endless nitpicking of that story and it's sourcing and turns out looking back, it was dead on right i want to read aloud something. >> i'll put it on the screen from brian stelter, who, who is a former colleague of both of ours. he said, after talking to top reporters at the white house, beat, what emerges is a far more for nuanced picture. the national media wasn't dodging the story. the biggest newspapers in the country published lengthy stories about biden's mental fitness. the public wasn't in the dark about biden's age. most voters, 67% according to gallup, thought he was too old to be president even before the debate. but questions about biden's fitness for profits were not emphasized as much as they should have been that's the third option.

the stories should have been tougher. the volume should have been louder. do you buy into that? >> i mean, isn't that always the case with every story where the public has faced a failure of credible well-reported information. it's always nuance, it's always difficult. brian's right. but still the public did not get at the information that it deserved from new media okay, final question for jill abramson. >> now, will there be an over correction? will every sneeze be reported on? absolutely. you and i both know that. but there's also a lot of really good reporting going on, not only by your previous guess, but in the atlantic, also as a great article by dr. zika manual, which made the point that we're looking at now and

for years from now, but that isn't how old-age works. old age is a process of decline, and we're seeing it before our eyes and it's going to get much worse he's a very credible doctor jill abramson. thank you. appreciate your being here. >> thanks a lot. >> via social media, some more of the reaction this from the world of x he asked the same question about ten times. the press is not being fair. there was no coverage of trump lies and outrageous threats. he asked the same question about ten n times carolan, are you are you speaking of george stephanopoulos? i thought that stephanopoulos had a very difficult assignment on his hands and that he was terrific. i thought that his his tone and his manner, we're appropriately respectful. i thought that he was civil and yet he asked all the right questions and that he was probing. i also thought that when he said at the outset that

the interview was 22 minutes in length, i thought to myself, well, that's not gonna be enough. but at the end of the 22 minutes, i was satisfied that he had covered what he needed to and that the president was treated fairly. and as i said in my commentary at the outset, that people were going to draw from it their own conclusions was it reassuring it was not in my opinion make, sure you're going to swear kaddish.com and voting on today's poll question, which would make kamala harris a stronger democratic presidential nominee. acclimation or competition up ahead as gen z graduates, high school with rising tuition costs and student loan debt, many are skipping out on traditional four-year college let's degrees. why blue collar jobs may be the way to go and what the data tells us. i'll respond in just a moment to more of your social media comments regarding the whole situation. on the 2024 presidential race. make sure you're subscribing to my newsletter when you're voting, it's mercado.com. you'll get

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wait for this all year. hosted by john c shark week starts sunday at 8:00 a.m. discovery stream on max here are some of the social media coming in during the course of today's program. >> like you, i do not see them in advance. were cash biden has been running for president his entire career. are you? really expecting him to walk away, not going to happen. i must say we're cash. there's this this feeling that you get from him watching the interview where it's essentially joe biden against the world. it's like he's got to take on all comers. in fact, i want to play for you just a real quick snippet of something that was said to george stephanopoulos by the president that relates to your comment, roll that tape mr. president? i've never seen a president. 36% approval get reelected well, i don't believe that's my approver and that's how in our polls show he's stay? >> in and trump is elected. and

everything. your warning about comes to pass how will you feel in january feel as long as i gave it my all could just jobs. >> i know i can do that's what this is the bow. >> right? that's a comment that works in another context where the stakes as perceived by democrats are not existential relative to democracy. that's why that answer was was far below the mark. more social media reaction didn't mean to interrupt the flow, but i wanted to show you that i put it in my head acclimation picture. this the bidens the clintons, obama's on convention stage saying together, we support kamala, what a boost, right? but pete, why does it have to be one or the other? why couldn't it be competition letter, letter earn it? and after she earns it, if she does, then you can have biden's and clinton's and obama's all on that stage and welcoming the new generation of leadership, more social media. what do we have? i think that competition is in her best

interest in all of ours. we hear about trump's many flaws 24/7, the media is two years late to the leader of the free world being a danger. where have you been? i think it's a fair criticism. i really do. and i think it's a combination of factors. i think that part of it is a fear that you're going to elect donald trump if you talk about these things, you're going to elect donald trump. and why do i say that? because i know from first-hand experience, often on the receiving end of your hostel, social media, where i'm willing to talk about the shortcomings of both ends of the spectrum. but whenever i have done so relative to biden what have you said to me in your tweets and other social media comments? oh, you're you're carrying donald trump's water and my response is then to say, well, okay, stick your head back in the sand. and on november 6, we can have an interesting conversation. more social media, give me what you've got catherine the i don't think so. response to if he watched the debate confirmed his cognitive decline in my view, i

love the president yeah. i mean, come on. the answer do we have that, catherine? do we have i'm sorry to catch a cold. i know we'd cut it before. we don't have it. okay. well, he was asked by george stephanopoulos did you watch the debate? and he said, i don't think so. i don't i don't think i did. i don't think i did. wait a minute. we're in the midst of a crisis here. the whole world is talking about that debate. you either did or you didn't. and more alarming than his inability of play it, then i'll make my comment. roll that tape did you ever watched the debate afterwards i don't think i did, no. >> okay. houston, we have a problem. i don't think i did. no, i don't think i did. everybody's talking about the. debate, it was nine days ago. yeah. either did or you didn't watch it and there are two

problems. problem number one is that he doesn't remember and problem number two is that he lacks the self awareness of recognizing the shortcoming of that response. that that's really what ought to shake people up one more real quick. it's gotta be a quickie. i love when i can get through a whole bunch of these. it has to be very soon to give whoever gets the mantle and opportunity to run successfully. karin, i agree with you. this all comes to a head one way or the other very, very soon. i'd be shocked if by next saturday when we're back together god willing, if there isn't some resolution of all of this that was fun. keep the social media comments coming. i really do appreciate it. i'm unwell. the usual platforms still to come. why many are ditching college? for trade school? there's no longer just one path to prosperity and don't forget to vote on today's poll question. it's where kaddish.com, which would make kamala harris a stronger democratic presidential nominee acclimation we're competition when you're voting, sign up for the free and worthy daily

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zehr take allergy relief works fast. it lasts a full 24 hours. so dave can be good liver, dance. >> okay. dave? let's be more than our allergies seize the de with zyrtec close captioning brought to you by guilt visit gilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands hill's house. the designers like, get your heart racing had inside a prices new every day, hurrying, there'll be gone in a flash. designer sales at up to 70% shop gilt.com today thank in today's work environment is a vocational trade school degree becoming a more direct career path to economic success than a conventional four-year college degree, according to gallup in the past decade, the percentage of americans who expressed a lot of confidence in higher education, it fell from 57% and to 36% and that's during a decade that tuition has gone up another 12%. >> meanwhile, there's a growing shortage of skilled trades tradespeople. the current crop is aging out of

jobs and fewer people are choosing those careers by way of example, the u.s. expected to be short some 550,000 plumbers by 2027. according to the national electrical contractors association nearly 30% of union electricians are near retirement. over the next decade. some 1.9 million manufacturing jobs could go unfilled. but that also means there's a booming opportunity usa today recently noted that among the growing number a millionaires in america are a new cohort of quote unquote millionaires next door. as they put it, americans who built seven or eight figure fortunes from essentially nothing without high-powered law degrees or inherited wealth. jobs like owning a fleet of ice cream trucks or ebay business, or family roofing company? the wall street journal recently featured a first-person piece entitled why i skipped college to be an hvac tech, whose author said that he was more interested in getting a mortgage than running up

student loan debt and my next guest wrote a like-minded piece in the washington post which for awhile was number one on the site. i went to trade school during law school it left me stunned, joining me now is darnell eps, a recent graduate of the yale law school, and lincoln technical institute of vocational school in east windsor, connecticut he's now the founder and ceo of thurgood industries connecting employers and potential workers, darnell good to see you. why did you go to vote tech school yeah i mean, i was attending nice to be here first, michael. >> thank you for having me. i was attending law school in the city new haven at its 26% poverty rate and the median household income of $42,000 yet, employers at general dynamics and other companies were looking to fill thousands, tens of thousands of skilled positions. it couldn't find entry-level talent. and like you mentioned many of the older

workers who were skilled, were retiring from the industry and there was this desperate need to fill these vacancies as well as the growing jobs that were needed at the entry-level as well. because by 2030 is expected that 2.1 million jobs will be unfilled in it vance manufacturing sector due to the current skills gap that we face here in america. so it really motivated me to go and enroll at a vote, vote tech school to really understand what the skills where the employers were looking forward to try and the build a company that can get that message across communities with a hunger for economic opportunity was greatest have we oversold the value of a college education to young people, as i'm listening to darnell apps, i'm thinking about my mother being one of 11 of the 112 had college degrees.

>> the other nine did not. they all did well but i can speak for all 11 in raising their kids. it was you must go to college. you've got to get a college degree. and i think it's just become ingrained in this idea of pursuit of the american dream. but maybe we need to rethink that frankly, part of the problem stems from the fact that the cost of college has ballooned at multiple times the rate of inflation over the past several decades today, it's actually cheaper to launch your career, the trades, even if you later decide to obtain a four-year degree. >> i was meeting with talent acquisition folks and employers. and sikorsky, for example, and they had full tuition reimbursement program. so entry-level machinists, i mean theoretically someone can get an entry-level job as a machinist, straight school and have their tuition fully reimbursed if they decide to pursue a four-year degree later, but that's not the message that's getting too high school graduates through

their counselors and it's traditional track of go to a four-year institution, perhaps take out a massive loan and then work on paying that off down the road. but i think we're trying to do here at thurgood is show that they're are different pathways to upward economic mobility. and work in the traits. it's not only didn't fight work, but it's, it's it's that kind of pathway as well you didn't just go to law school, you went to arguably the number one or number two or number three law school in the country. >> what was the reaction among your yale classmates that darnell eps was not only going to yale law school, but also going to trade school at the same time well, many of my classmates, they understood what my mission and goal was here, which was to connect people again in communities with a hunger for economic opportunity is greatest to meaningful careers not everyone wants to work in the gig economy of be opened drivers.

>> so my classmates were supportive by friends, were supportive it was not to the traditional pathway for year law students. typically, you'll you get a joint jd, mba i decided to become a machinist but they're there are some, some great engineering minds that went to yale law school as well there's a bit of history there as well. whether you think it kevin and others yeah. >> darnell limited on time, but quickly tell us. okay. now that you're a machinist and a lawyer, what was the first thing you made? in the machine shop? >> believe it or not, and typical lohier fashion, i machined a gavel. who is i gave to my son now sticks and i had to prevent him from putting it through the drywall and i hope inspired the logo for our company as well so so many

friends i. met at lincoln tack instructors that i still speak with today and meet with for breakfast just a great community there, as well as it yell and i'll forever remember that my work had his space is really devoted to improving the lives of of people who want to pursue careers in the industry. and it interests congratulations on both of your graduation star. now, good to have you here. >> thanks, michael appreciate it. >> darnell. darnell eps. ladies and gentlemen. okay. make sure you're voting. it's for kaddish.com. the poll question of the day. here are some reaction. michael says, it is simply supply and demand, less supply and trades. i have several clients who started in trade than open their own company in their field. they earn mid to upper six figures by their late 30s, like we need more, whoa, michael, you had me up until the last line really, you have to take a shot at the lawyers. now, i agree with you.

and as i said to darnell, i think that there's a message for parents and by the way, a lot of parents like me talk a good game and then don't follow the advice because we pushed faris into education. education, education as well. and yet a trades person in my neighborhood could do extremely well. it's still to come the final results of today's poll question. it's were conscious.com, which would make kamala harris a stronger democratic presidential nominee acclimation or competition when you're there, sign up for the newsletter, you'll love it. you'll get exclusive work from pulitzer prize winner steve brene if you moderate to severe crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms are stopping you in your tracks. >> you still laura from the start and move toward relief after the first dose with injections. every two months still, laura may increase your risk of infections. >> some serious and cancer

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something that seems so preordained it sounds extraordinary. >> dr. sanjay gupta reports the last alzheimer's patient tomorrow at eight on cnn so there's the poll results so far it's worked wow, pretty decisive, 31,000 and change 73%. >> say, hey, kamala harris would be stronger if she had to compete for it. i agree with that social media reaction. what do we have real quick a divided convention will not help the winter pea does on the flip side of that, pete, i disagree. i think for all the reasons i said letter earn it in the convention, then she comes out with a head of steam. one more. i think i can squeeze it in. let's go. what do we have? i have a question for you when the rest of the media, why does joe biden have such a higher bar to get over than trump, a convicted felon. why is no one saying this guy shouldn't be running or aaron plenty of people have been saying that into saying it for light years, but the focus this week is on joe biden's debate performance. and if he had been on top of his game, all the attention would've been on

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