democrat or republican has beat donald trump ever. i'm going to beat him again it was one of the most energetic performances that we have seen from biden in months. >> as he trained his fire on donald trump and extremely blunt terms, trying to turn the focus of this race back on his former predecessor on his predecessor, as he also sought to reassure his own party about his ability to beat him donald trump is a loser. >> here's kingmaker by those convicted by a jury of his peers 34 felonies. you're paying hush money to a porn star donald trump was found liable for sexual assault. donald trump is a business fraud he is still facing charges rolling january 6. he still facing charges in georgia. he's filed bankruptcy six times. trump is a threat to this nation told you it was pretty blunt. of course, biden was speaking there on a teleprompter, and many

democrats will want to see a repeat of that exact performance tonight in detroit, over and over again for the next four months up until election day. for now, at least for some of them, his nomination is still a question mark. far fewer were likely watching that speech in detroit tonight and the 24 million who watched his press conference last night in washington. a number that is roughly half of those who tuned in for the debate two weeks ago in atlanta, the concerns that his party were alarming enough that the top democrat in the house, hakeem jeffries, relate them personally to president biden after that press conference last night, as the number of congressional democrats calling for biden to drop out, his only continued to grow right now. that number stands at 19. what are the most recent being california democrat in a vulnerable spot, mike levin but i believe the time has come for president biden to pass the torch. it's time to move forward with a new leader together now a source tells us

that levin confronted biden directly when that message on a call today with the congressional hispanic caucus, it's the first time that we know of that a member of congress has actually done so, telling biden directly what their concerns are about his chances in november we're told by a source that the president responded and i'm quoting biden now, that's why i'm going out and letting people touched me, poke me, ask me questions and joining me now is the junior senator from pennsylvania, the democrat john fetterman, senator. >> it's great to have you, obviously you in the senate, but the democratic leader over in the house today had keen jeffries, put out a statement about a meeting that he had with president biden last night where he was relaying the concerns that that he's hearing from other democrats. and it notably left out any any endorsement of president biden staying in the race. i wonder how you read that actually, i don't know if i really see it that way i think it's like perhaps you can correct me, but i think it's maybe 18 or 19,

maybe 20 democrats out of out of the in congress have now asked joe biden to step down so that means well over 90% of democrats in congress right now is right there with joe biden. at this point. so i think that's more meaningful to reflect where we are as a party on that at this moment. >> yeah. i mean, i think we've heard from a bunch who maybe aren't willing to come out and put their name on a statement yet, calling on him to drop out. some have certainly expressed that privately sibley the biden campaign, came out and was talking to lawmakers yesterday. i know obviously they spoke to senate democrats. and one thing that they've said is there are three states believe they must win in november. that's michigan, wisconsin, and your home state of pennsylvania. all three of those have democrats who are running for senate seats and for bob casey you see in pennsylvania, you'll, what does him, his campaign look like for the next for muttering, does he just run as far away from the

president is possible or what's what's the strategy look like for those vulnerable democrats? >> oh, no, no, no? bob casey is just use been killing it. and that guy from connecticut, bob casey, he's going to win and bob casey is not going to run away from from joe biden. in fact, we were just all together in philadelphia just last less than a week on that. so that joe, who joe biden in is going to win pennsylvania, and of course so bob casey you think the president will ultimately win pennsylvania i do. >> in fact i'm i'm around everywhere people recognize me and not one single, not one single person have approached us as a democrat and say, joe biden, we got how to get rid of joe. just the opposite. when i landed from flying back from dc dc last night, people are stopping me in the airport. saying, hey, thank you for

standing with the president. it's like i'm appalled. i just canceled my new york times subscription. all kinds of things and my people and my network all across pennsylvania are saying this same thing. and then if you look at the twitter of the leader of the allegheny westmoreland county labour council. and they stand with joe. joe biden so i really want to be clear on the ground regular kinds of people in pennsylvania are excited for joe biden and i witnessed that when i was in philadelphia last week. and there is some kind of a bit of a buttal sue mi a bubble and joe biden is going to be okay and pennsylvania, but it's going to be close no i'm glad you bring that up. >> this sense of this bubble because that's what i hear from people inside the white house and you've obviously been one of the most ardent defenders are president biden in these last two weeks. since that debate. but, but we heard something interesting tonight from the united auto workers president shawn fain. he's been here on the show. he was telling democrats don't put

your head in the sand hide from reality. he said, quote, we tried that in 2016 and it didn't work. are you worried that democrats who aren't being blunt and acknowledging the president's vulnerabilities and the challenges that the setbacks obviously that that debate. have posed to him are doing just that, putting their heads in the sand well, i showed up at multiple line, the uaw whether it was in michigan or whether it wasn't ohio, even in pennsylvania so i'm very much i'm very much a part of that and of course so there big win on all of that and i would rather focus on the vulnerabilities of donald trump he seems to have a pro porn star. >> part of his platform and then also he's all about project 25, 2025 and he's a conviction he did felon and he said a lot of crazy kinds of thing and he seems to have a strange love affair with putin

as well. i think i'm more concerned about those kinds of vulnerabilities so as well. and it's going to be close. and it was close in 2016 and the so-called experts were saying that it clinton was going to win that obviously didn't happen. in fact, all the experts never predicted that it was going to be about trump and biden. but of course it is. again. so i am i'm not really sure if there are any so-called experts right now. and i want to be clear, joe biden can beat trump. but joe biden can beat trump. and the new york times and this whole apparatus of other people in consultants and all these people, they just keep riding his back weekend and week out. how many weeks are you going to when are you going to just decide, hey just deal with a deal with that joe biden is our guy and he's gone it's going to be the one on the ballot and i don't know why you seem to be willing how many

weeks you're going to do the work for trump and i think we just have to au this, this discussion has to be over and realize that joe biden is going to be the guy when you say you there, are you talking about your felony? or democrats who are calling on him to get out of the race i'm talking about the new york times. >> i'm talking about a lot of people in them i'm talking about other folks that decide to its very clear that they don't want joe biden to be the nominee. well, he is though, and i don't know how many weeks you're going to choose to continue having that conversation? and amendment if that's what you want to do. but who are you really helping? is it helping bring democrats together? are it seems like you're trying to make trump stronger? >> well, or sexually, i mean, even the democrats who are calling on the president to get out of the race. and as you said, we looked at the number we've been counting it as it's grown. and so that's it

in the biden campaign is also testing in polls head-to-head matchups with donald trump and vice president harris au. and that has all been part of this is what this is looked like tonight the new york times says major democratic donors told the biggest biden super pac that some of their pledges worth about $90 that they're on pause as long as biden is at the top of the ticket. and so what does the end of this look like in the sense of not what the media is saying, but what, what democrats are saying, what democratic donors are saying? and what the allies of the president who don't have faith in him at the top of the ticket are saying i would say those donors or bluffing. and if you're willing to withhold any kind of resources it's against the president, then you're only you're helping trump on that. put your name on it, put your name on it. you know, anyone can be a tough-guy when you're not willing to put your name attached to that. and i believe that you're bluffing and as president biden said, time detroit, he said he is not going anywhere. senator john fetterman, thank you for joining us tonight here on the source thank you.

>> thanks for having me i'm joined now by former new york city mayor and former democratic presidential candidate himself, build the blasio. it's great to have. you may you hear senator fetterman. they are who has been of the syphilis defender of biden's, and making the case there against those who are speaking out biden himself is clearly tired of hearing about the debate performance you made that clear. detroit tonight, i just want you to listen to part of what he said i guess they don't remember the trump called nikki haley, nancy pelosi, no more free pass shine a spotlight on donald trump au. >> trump is a convicted criminal what do you make of how he did tonight? i think that's great. i think i mean, i wish he had said donald trump's a convicted criminal, 20 times in the debate and so i think this is exactly the kind of thing that joe biden needs to do to give people that sense of hope and energy again. now, look, senator fetterman, who's an extraordinary person and i have great respect for i would

just say i think he's missing something about the fact that in the democratic party we should have open dialogue. i actually think it makes us stronger if think about this way, yeah, and i think the 2016 analogy is real a lot of people in the party thought things were off kilter towards the end of 2016 campaign. the obvious example of our candidate not going to wisconsin, which is such a key state a lot of people, it's constant felt that, you know, those voices being heard and not shut down is actually part of what makes a party stronger and a candidate see stronger. so now you actually see joe biden responding to these voices and showing us more. and that's what people need to see i would be very worried if everyone was feeling something was wrong, but no one had the decency or the concern for our country to say it because ironically the only way to make this campaign better, whether it's joe biden or joe biden decides to step aside and it's kamala harris. the only way to make the campaign the strongest it can be is to be open about the things we have to address. >> so you don't seem to share the concerns that we've heard

from some who say, every time you come out and criticize the president's age, it's only you know, helping reinforce those republican talking points are what the, what donald trump is saying. >> i don't buy it, i'll tell you why. first of all, the polling and we all can take polling with a grain of salt. but the polling before the debate showed how much people of this country were concerned about his age democrats and republicans after the debate without any of the commentary on the average, american is not reading the new york times editorial page. it was what they saw in the debate that gave them additional concern. this is real stuff. and i think it is head in the sand. if you act like that didn't happen, if you think you could just like unsee it so i think in fact, if you care about victory, it's better to bring this stuff out in the open. let the dissenting voices, dissent and answer them with action, meaning, if the president can show us, i think he's an extraordinary leader, god, great record. shows that fire, show us that consistency. people going to feel that in fact, it'll be a great comeback story. yeah, but if doesn't feel that way to people or the president himself

feels it's not working out. and if he decides to make a different decision, than i guarantee you all that positive energy will go to camila harris or whoever it is and people will not skip a beat because they understand what's at stake tonight. >> shirt it look like he's he's even considering stepping down. i mean, he is not wavered at all since he is since the debate has passed. and so if you are someone who wants by to stay in this race and want him to win in november. i mean, does he have to repeat what he did in detroit every single day until then? what does that look if you're in his shoes? was that what i'd say? two things. first of all, he's a tremendously professional human being. and even if he has racked by doubt and having serious conversations about his options, he has to show the people of this country and his party a message of, i mean, it and i'm going to make it happen because the campaign has continued. if he were to start being like you know, someone who mused out loud about all his problems that would basically kill the immediate efforts right now to stop donald trump from becoming president but the second thing

is you got it's so personal and i've been there in a much smaller way. it's so personal. you're not going to just a week or two after a debate say, i've made a final decision. it's a painful, it's a difficult decision. it takes a while look if he can string together a bunch of good performances and start to just, you'll see it people will feel it and you'll start to see it in polling. you'll start to see it in the response that everyday voters have but if that doesn't happen, if it's uneven i think he's an objective human being. i think he's a highly intelligent human being if he sees a mixed bag, he's going to understand. he's got a tough decision to make. >> democrats have the time for that because i was talking to jim himes last night, the top democrat on the house intelligence committee. he came out with a statement saying biden chagall, out of the race after that? the press conference last night? not because of it. he said it was waiting until he was basically done with his nato duties he said there was 96 hours left to make a decision here i don't know where he gets that, and i respect him as well. >> i don't know where he gets that. he may have some knowledge. i don't have but i'll tell you we have a

convention and from everything i can tell that's the decisive moment is still a ways off and again, i do not expect the president who's been a successful president who, who, if he can continue to build and grow his campaign, you know, could be extremely successful canada as well. but if he can't if he comes to the conclusion, he can't especially i don't think that's a decision that will happen right away, but my strong impression is we do have time. we obviously have the vice president waiting as well as other candidates. we have a strong bench and we have a strong campaign apparatus. so i actually think we do have time and it can't be unnatural in the sense that if the president, the president today, you have to make decision, right this minute. i wouldn't blame if he said i'm staying just listen to thousands of people, ai troy, it feels breaking, don't get out. but if he sees evidence or if he has his own concerns merge over the next few weeks and he starts to think, you know what maybe i shouldn't. he can only make that decision when it feels full and write to him yeah. >> you know what that's like, mayor wco. great to have you

here tonight. thanks for joining us. thinking if president biden is going to overcome this unprecedented challenge in american history. one big part of this is that it's going to start with support just like this and i'm all in on rotten with biden. >> no matter what direction he drove, no matter what method he to x joe biden. won south carolina congressman jim clyburn, the so-called democrat kingmaker, says it's time for democrats to stop talking about replacing the president on the ticket. it matters it's not just because biden himself credited clyburn's endorsement four years ago with turning things around after he suffered major losses and iowa, new hampshire, and nevada our body jim clyburn, your brought me back of a north integrity and enormous consequence now, of course, when we talk about what this looks like, black voters are not a monolith.

>> we all know that. but put simply, black voters are at the core and they do form it of the modern democratic party biden is going to need their support if he's going to hold on to this democratic nomination, much less the white house. now whether it's been biden, hillary clinton, or barak obama, none of the last three democratic nominees would have been on the top of the ticket without a surge of support from black voters. and as his campaign has faltered, this constituency is where the president continues to have the most support. look at the numbers that support is far from conclusive, right now. and of course that means joe biden will have to dig deeper the history. and just 2020 perhaps back to the last time that a sitting democratic president faced real questions from within his, within his own party about whether or not he could continue in the oval office was 1998, the congressional black caucus that rallied around president bill clinton as party leaders were openly talking about cutting him loose after details of his affair with an intern became public the congressional black

caucus most if seemed like an oasis to president warm, a good job, support, the black community has been a continuing source of support for president clinton even through the growing criticism and calls for his resignation now, tonight, there is a growing list of congressional democrats who are calling for president biden to step down. >> we just talked about that. but so far, not a single black lawmaker has of course, where voters stand still remains to be seen. we're seeing early polling, but none of it is telling the whole picture. you saw president biden earlier in detroit tonight as we showed you, it's the nation's largest majority black city. can 1998. this is what black voters are saying about president clinton report about president. >> and i think we should continue on in that regard media and the public now compare that to what we had heard from some black voters. >> what they were saying in places like georgia biden is

our guy. >> that's why i'm riding with don't rock the boat unless you have a plan to get me back to shore then there's what we heard in another swing state, pennsylvania to drop out, keep pushing ryan were buying, but we've been going around talking of evil. >> they said, listen joe biden could be in a wheelchair. i'm still going to vote for joe biden of course the big question tonight with just over a month to go before that democratic nomination at the mayor was talking about is whether or not president biden is able to grow that sentiment from a few voices and a south philly bar it's that convention hall full of the entire democratic party in chicago we'll continue to track that up next here on the source, we have exclusive audio from inside a biden campaign phone call on what's ahead with more than but a few expletives woven in boy, is it like crazy? gaza planned world that we're living in? you did adapt and

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for you exclusive audio from a biden campaign meeting is alex thompson of axios obtained this recording. >> it sheds light on just how the campaign leadership is trying to recover from the fallout of president biden's debate performance with the chair jen o'malley, dillon in quite blunt about their plan to rebound they look at donald trump and they see every single thing that they are afraid of and that they don't like about him while we've had two very, very, very hard weeks, very bad weeks, i will leave it at told you that level with you didn't ban donald trump? it's numbers have gone down in some polls are numbers have gone up and it's not because of the debate. a lot of people didn't see the it is because when they hear him talk, when they see things about project 2025, they are reminded how much they don't like him so i am not here to tell you that things

are going to be easy or that the path is that we're head everywhere and we're just going to be fine. but i am here to tell you that we are basically in the margin of error in all of our battleground states it's alex thompson, national political correspondent, at axios joins me now who obtained that audio? and alex, obviously this is notable because we're hearing jen o'malley, dillon acknowledged the fallout, but but also talking about what next but when you hear her say they're within the margin of error, that means that what they're looking at, the numbers, they're not ahead beating donald trump in a way that makes them feel comfortable in any way absolutely. later in the call, she called it slippage and he essentially what this call was was to try to convince the campaign staff that there still is a viable path forward that they may be behind now, but there is a path to victory here and part of the reason for that isn't the debate didn't just it's make democrats in congress concerned democratic

voters concerned. it made the staff of the campaign and made the staff of the white house also incredibly worried. it varies from person to person. some people are sort of coming back around and are loyalists and are very dug in. some people feel disillusionment. they feel they've lost confidence and their leaders, it's sort of like a sports team losing confidence in their coaching staff and then there's some in the middle and what jen o'malley, dillon in the campaign staff have done, especially over the last week, that mean this is the third all all-staff conference call since just last wednesday. they are going my understanding is they're probably going to schedule a bunch more obviously, maybe the leaks will change that. but they're really trying to fix the morale inside this campaign and get people refocused back on the task of beating donald trump yeah, it's not just some phenomenon words the media or people on twitter talking about this. this is literally coming from inside the house, inside

the white house, inside the campaign. and there was a part where she talked about this. she referred to it is noise. this was her message to the campaign team i want to say first and foremost, boy, is it like crazy gossip land world that we're living in and i really like him amaze so i guess i shouldn't be amazed by how much the chatter out here is. >> that is not based in reality or real it is not based on what's actually happening. and i think that i wanted to start by saying that in addressing that head-on because i think it's so easy, especially for all of us that are doing the job and doing the work and seeing what we're doing every day to hear about. oh, here's the story about when senior advisers divided. here's the story. joe biden's having this press conference to drop out of the race. hello, its nato, excuse my language for all the people tuning in, but i will

try to keep it on the download. but you know how i'd like this. where's have you know, did mle dillon she does liked his where i don't think that's any surprise to those who have covered her but but on this sense of of what they're dealing with, if you've covered the trump campaign, they deal with leaks all the time. >> trump white else that would lead till the time this is kind of the first time we've really seen it in this way with the biden campaign that's completely right, which is that they're struggling with this very intense spotlight, not just on the campaign side. >> you also have seen in the press briefings, they've struggled with inconsistencies of answers and jen o'malley dillon, she has good amount of good of goodwill within the campaign because she's a professional operative. but the problem is that there is the trust deficit sort of a crisis of confidence within the broader orbit. and that's why the thing is that biden world has always been insular and

there haven't been that many reports. and this is the first time where you're seeing all this gossip. all of these insider or palace intrigue story spill into the open and the people in the campaign aren't quite sure what to believe. and that's why it's created this, this sort of like a feeding frenzy environment where people are just not even sure about their jobs. some people that just decided to sign a listen linkedin delaware that are now not sure about their own future, right? and so that's sort of the situation we're in and why jen o'malley dillon is really trying to stabilize the ship. >> how would you describe tonight how people are feeling inside the campaign from what you've heard i, think it's completely split. i think there's some people that feel these efforts are too little too late. i think there are some people that are very despondent that it basically i think were shocked at joe biden's debate appearance had been telling all their friends and relatives that the right-wing caricature of

dementia joe or senile joe, like it was all a conspiracy and now upside to reckon with that and they feel sort of embarrassed and their own personal ways. and there's some people that are real true believers two and are actually sort of rallying around the president. so it's very scattered yeah. >> alex thompson, great reporting as always. >> thank you for joining tonight now, to the other side of this race, donald trump has a big announcement to make that he still has not made yet his vice presidential pick the convention starts on trump says it's unfolding apprentice style. we'll tell you how and who's up next you've found the right model for sure now, how can you be sure you're getting the right deal? i have to talk to my bestie hey girl this ones like you're last boyfriend. >> it's got issues let's ask the experts for the right use car. just say show me the car facts value. you'll get the motion priced based on the

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though sources tell us that he seems to have fallen out of contention. but in the ultimate trump fashion, he is keeping everyone including those four candidates that you were seeing on screen guessing i have some really really good candidates and maybe leaning one way and that changes sometimes, you know, all of a sudden you've see something that you like or you don't like, and you lean a little bit differently. >> it's like a highly sophisticated version of the apprentice, ultimately a smarter urban instinct, you develop an instinct but i'd like to know all the facts before the instinct kicks in let's talk about this with new york times senior political correspondent and cnn political analyst maggie haberman. maggie obviously, it wasn't that long ago in 2016 when i think it was two days before the convention that trump announced that he was picking mike pence as his running mate, even then still wavering after what are you hearing about where his head is at right now on this i think he

was actually pretty candid about where his head is, which is that he is keeping his cards fairly close. he is tossing a bunch of names around as he talks i think the reporting that timpson scott is not actually on the shortlist is correct. i think that it is jd vance marco rubio, and doug burgum, and look at donald trump is a, is a comfort zone and chemistry player. it's part of why he picked mike pence. mike pence also helped him as a bridge to have angelical voters. he doesn't need that bridge anymore. he really owns the party the person he has the best chemistry with, according to all of my reporting is jd vance whether he decides that there's something else that he needs a vp remains to be seen, but there is a part of him that seems to be enjoying this and that came through in his voice in that in that interview. one of course, the people who aren't enjoying it are the different camps that are set up between me i've seen so much reporting come out in the last week or so with stories about all three of these candidates and what trump may like about

them or not like everyone is watching marco rubio on stage in miami. >> i mean, wouldn't you been hearing about but what that's been like look, i mean, in terms of how the camps are taking this, i mean, look, you've seen all kinds of reports about rupert murdoch is pushing doug burgum and this person is pushing this one of this person it's pushing that one. >> there is a lot of jockeying going on as there always is in donald trump's world around personnel. and that's essentially what this comes down to. it isn't from asleep, powerful role, it is a person who will be involved in all kinds of aspects of policy and other matters with donald trump, both for the rest of the campaign. and if the ticket wins, there is an immense amount of jockeying. you are correct that there is a lot of anxiety around this i take trump at his word that he would like to do this at the convention since its friday night before the convention starts. and he likes ratings and he likes when most eyes

will be on him, he has been other than his truth social feed kaitlan where he has it's been unleashing a torrent of attacks on biden and all sorts of other things in terms of what he's saying in more monitored media, he has been quieter and he has just been letting the focus be on the democrats and they're chaos. that's going to come to an end. the republican national convention starts. >> well, how much of that chaos though, with biden has factored into trump's decision here on the vice president because he very clearly does not from what he's said, doesn't want biden to drop out. i mean, he's criticize george clooney for calling on him to drop out he was critical of others for nancy pelosi for what she said, and he seemed to say today also in that interview that he wishes he could wait until past monday to name his vice president, but talk about how complicated that gets with the convention rules. i mean, how much of that is weighing on them? >> i think that's that's a big part of it. i mean, it's certainly the fact that there was this chaos with the democrats over the last two weeks has allowed him to push

his announcement back, and he is aware of that, according to all my reporting, he has been mindful that he has more time. he likes attention to be on him. he lives has just said before, he likes attention to be on what he is doing, but also so i don't think that he has been in any kind of real rush to announce this to your point in 2016? he offered the role to mike pence and then proceeded to tell chris christie he hadn't made up his mind yet, and then went back and forth and ultimately lee it was revealed publicly that pence was the pick and they had this press conference and that was that he seems to be similarly uncertain at this time, even if he hasn't actually uncertain, that's how he's behaving. am i remembering correctly that chris christie found out like from twitter or online or from a text or so that i think even found out from trump, right? he did find out from trump, but before he found out from trump, he found out from hearing that pence was being flown into teterboro and what happened was trump said that's not true i

have no idea what's happening with. >> i'm paraphrasing, but i have no idea what's happening with that but turn on your television and trump called into a cable news show and said he hadn't really made up his mind and held it up as evidenced to christie that it wasn't true. and then of course it was true that he had chosen pens and pence was coming in and then trump called christie and said i've chosen mike pence and it was sort of the least confrontational way that he could do it. but trump likes this kind of thing. >> they will all be in milwaukee. we are told by gabe and thank you for that reporting, correct? up next, a judge, just throughout rudy giuliani's a bankruptcy case today that paves the way for those two former election workers that he defamed to start collecting what he owes but there's a long list. their attorney is here to join me next gen sugar ray leonard, you every tasks wearing boxing gloves bird and now putting on his new arch bit sketchy

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assets within days. >> that includes his bank accounts is signaling dollar new york apartment, his $3.5 million condo in florida, a mercedes benz car, a collection of 26 luxury watches, three world series championship rings for the new york yankees. yankees, and other baseball collectibles that he has like a joe dimaggio shirt that he claims to all told the disgraced former new york mayor owns for owes more than $150 million to some 20 businesses and people. most of that though, is owed to ruby freeman and shaye moss. of course, the two former georgia election workers that we all remember, her, giuliani repeatedly defamed i'm joined now by their attorney, rachel strickland and rachel, it's great to have you here. now that this decision has been made, do try to plan to seize rudy giuliani's assets and how soon? yes immediately the judge entered an order today saying that the case is going to be dismissed. there are some

formalities around that, so that takes another couple of days, but after that, it's fair game. do you know? which ones you'll go after? i mean, i just listed some of the ones that i know he was not being totally transparent according to the judge in court, but which ones do think you'll go after all of them really the lowest hanging fruit is obviously the new york city apartment that's already been listed by a broker and so that's that's probably the first to go, but really there is nothing off-limits but even if you sees everything, it's still what did amount to what he ultimately owes them not even close. >> he doesn't have anywhere near that amount of money what was it like in court could just kinda i mean, there was that hearing on wednesday. we reported on where the judge muted or threaten to mute rudy giuliani's microphone, who is appearing virtually because of how he was acting. i mean, can you just kind of describe what it was like in the room?

>> sure was completely bizarre. we were making an argument that the judge totally agreed with that. the former mayor has acted in bad faith since the very beginning. he filed this case really moments after he learned that ms freeman and ms moss were going to be the able to go and seize his assets. so he did it as a defensive measure. and since that time, he really has done nothing honest or straightforward in the proceeding. and the judge has observed over and over again, yet again how giuliani would just be gaming a judicial process and he wasn't having it while i was making my argument you meant giuliani started piping in over the phone and screaming. he was completely unhinged. the judge said, you're not allowed to speak right now mr. giuliani said, i need to speak to my lawyers. i need to take a break. he accused me of defaming him and the judge wasn't having it we want to

take a break of defaming him it was rich, but he did the point i was making that got him really upset. was that one of the arguments that was being made about whether he should stay in bankruptcy was about whether or not he should stay in and have frosty oversee his assets effectively, take control of his wallet from here on out. and i pointed out to the judge that if that happened and he once again, refused to comply with the law, that not only would we have the option of seeking fines, but we would actually have the ability to go in and seek jail time of up to five years. and in making that totally factual statement, he lost his mind and started screaming. so it was pretty interesting and bizarre what is your client's think of all of this well, look, i mean, these

are two unbelievably heroic women who were doing their civic duty that we're really part of the democratic process, who had their lives upended by this man really, for generations in their family has been impacted ruby, her daughter shaye and her grandson with getting phone calls on his cell phone using the n word and threatening him, her elderly mother was getting threatened. >> they had the fbi call them and say you need to move from your home, you're in danger. so it's good to see that powerful people have consequences and today was one of those days. so they're very pleased and they're very strong it will strickland. >> i mean, it's remarkable to see where the story has ended up. thank you for joining us thank you up next, you might have missed it, but there was a stunning twist today. is that

involuntary manslaughter case that was happening against alec baldwin was abruptly dismissed. missed by the court and cannot be retried. will tell you the details, including what the judge put on latex gloves. that's ahead looking nature boys will stop it's a male finch it gives seats to females and funding mitchell wow double the storage on us. >> when you preorder it, verizon but he's thinking i'm thinking about her honeymoon, about africa so far hot air balloon ride, swim with elephants, wait, 34 to safari. >> great question. like everything takes a little planning for what the mind towards a down payment on a

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i've given myself a small raise, joined me at trying trying.com republican national convention starts monday at seven on cnn a remarkable legal victory for alec baldwin as the involuntary manslaughter case against him was abruptly thrown out of court today with the judge finding that the prosecutors failed to disclose key evidence to alec baldwin's attorneys he of course, was facing up to 18 months in prison for the 2021 death of the cinematographer halina hutchins on the rust movie set. >> the actor seems sobbing as the judge read her decision sanctions of dismissal is the only warranted remedy the jury has been sworn. jeopardy has attached in a mistrial would not be based upon manifest further, the sanctions of

dismissal is warranted in this case, the state is repeatedly made representations to defense and to the court that they were compliant with all their discovery obligations despite their repeated representations, they have continued to fail to disclose critical evidence to the defendant cnn legal analyst joey jackson joins me now, joey doors, this crazy moment in court for the judge herself put on latex gloves cut open this manila envelope that was filled with ammunition and then came down from the bench to examine it. >> you can see her there prosecutors defense all around her. i mean are you shocked by this as i know as it should be, so there are certain rules of engagement kaitlan, when you have a trial, we don't play trial by ambush. >> you have responsibilities. those responsibilities run deep. you're dealing with someone's liberty and so it's basic, it's called discovery. the prosecution collects the evidence, they give it to the defense. the defense tested, analyze it and prepares itself for trial. the judges issue

here is that it's willful. you don't get live rounds that are turned over. it happens to go in another file, not the file. it should be. and then the prosecution says nothing to see here. it's irrelevant and it makes a unilateral decision. kaitlan au, they're not identical. that's not your decision to make? you handed the defense they subjected to analysis and it's either relevant or not. and so because of the discovery violation, because we want to protect the integrity of the process. case has to be dismissed. >> a prosecutor got on the stand at one point to try to kind of defend that. i mean, it clearly didn't work, so no, what happens is the lead prosecutor got on the stand because there's a hearing, the judge which held the hearing to determine how we got here. right. you indicated discovery was sent over you said everything was compliant and you know what you acted in bad faith and that's something you cannot do. you cannot make representations to the court with respect to discovery, with regard to your unilateral we'll decisions saying i just saw a picture of it. i didn't really analyze the ammunition. the judge not too pleased, and i think this was beyond

appropriate. this is what we do. this is what the integrity of a court system looks like. and a judge has to fashion remedies something not all the time. will a judge dismissed the judge will do a number of other things. not allow the evidence in right. sanction, counsel, et cetera, in this case, the judge said it's just it's too much it's an intentional violation. we're going to throw the case out. right. >> it's likely there was no way to remedy in court, but he can't be retried for the that's exactly right. >> and so it was dismiss this it's being called very technically prejudice with prejudice and without prejudice. and this was dismissed without prejudice the reality is with prejudice, excuse me, which means that it cannot come back up again. double jeopardy attaches the case is over twists and turns in this case, this is the last twist and turn and the case is done. and i think the other one may unravel two with respect to the other conviction remarkable. >> joey jackson, without question. as always, great to have you. thank you so much for joining us. the news continues right here on cnn there's

president biden in detroit wrapping up a fiery defense of his candidacy, his stamina, and his chances is defeating donald trump in november, speaking to chants, have we got your back and don't you quit and four more years he talked for about 35 minutes joining us now is former ohio democratic congressman tim ryan ran for president 2020 also two cnn political commentators, ashley allison, who served as national coalitions director for the 2020 biden-harris campaign, and kate bedingfield, former biden white house communications director, congressman. >> it was ten days ago that you call from vice president harris replaces president biden at the top of the ticket president said again tonight, he's not going anywhere. what did you make of his speech tonight? and does it make you change your mind no. >> i honestly i didn't watch a whole lot. i just listened to it as as i was sitting here but i think the fact that a lot of the almost all of the michigan representatives, senators, candidates were not there. i

think tells a lot of us exactly what was happening on the ground now he's obviously going out. he's going to try to convince people, which is fine. i'm he has a right to absolutely do that but when i think about what the swing-state numbers are looking like, anderson and in these swing states, the biden campaign has spent already the trump campaign and the outside groups have not spent already. and you think about the debate, you think about the george stephanopoulos interview. you think about the putin and trump comment last night, and you think about nearly 1 billion behind those ads that is going to shift public opinion. and that's what guys like me are really, really worried about as we move forward into this campaign with so much at stake kate, i'm wondering what you made at the congressman's point. and also today, the head of the united auto workers urge democrats not to quote, put our heads in the sand and hide from reality well, the congressman maybe right, that some members

of the delegation weren't there. but look at the voters who were there, ultimately as the voters who are going to decide this election. and i think you had an incredibly raucous, energetic crowd here that was really feeding off what the president was saying. and i think crucially you had the president really prosecuting the case against donald trump. i mean, that's been a lot of the sort of the outstanding question over the last now almost two weeks since the debate has been, is he going to be capable of driving that message? is he capable of taking it to trump? and i think you absolutely saw tonight that he he was and he made a really aggressive case on the economic front. he really drove on no donald trump is for the big corporate interests. i'm for you in a really sharp argument there and delivered it passionately. so, you know, look, i think there is no question that some of the swing-state polling has moved since the debate. i think it would be foolish to deny that but i also think the biden team's theory of the case from the outset has been win this race comes into focus