given the fact that he's making incremental gains on the battlefield he's cut this new relationship with china really hard to crawl inside vladimir putin's mind to say the least, david stick with us. thank you so much. new hour of cnn, new central starts right now is cnn breaking news and we are following this major breaking news. >> a massive prisoner swap between the united states and russia, or the large scale swap as it is described, is right now underway. it is expected to include wall street journal reporter evan gershkovich, and american marine, paul whelan, among multiple other american eriksen's, we were told a lot, not known, a lot of questions and a lot of very stressful, very delicate minutes and hours ahead. they are expected to be in us custody soon. this is

according to a senior administration official, this swap ending a monthslong negotiation that was kept very quiet and was understandably very complicated. it ends a year's long nightmare for so many. both paul whelan who had been in russian custody for more than five years, and evan, as you see on the right side of your screen, evan, they're in custody for just doing his job as a journalist wrongfully detained for more for a better part of a year now, cnn is learning more minute by minute. we've got our team coverage here in the united states and around the globe. start this hour once again with alex marquardt, who first brought us this breaking news. what's the very latest alex well, kate, omar, we may be at the beginning of what is truly a historic and very emotional they, not just for the families of the people coming home, but of course for this entire country that has been wrapped with this saga of these

wrongfully detained americans in russia for several years, we are learning more from the biden administration. >> they said just moments ago that a spot that a prisoner exchange is underway and they have confirmed that at least two of the people being released by russian authorities are former marine paul whelan and wall street journal reporter evan gershkovich. these are two of the highest profile political prisoners being held by russia, who american officials have been trying to negotiate their released for a very long time. today would be the culmination of years of hard work to try to get not just these two men home, but many others as well. we're trying to understand the contours of what could be a historic deal and when i say historic is not just in terms it's a big size than the number of prisoners who could be exchanged by these countries. but also the number of countries involved. we

believe that this is an extraordinarily complex swap, that is now underway. we don't know what stage it is at right now. we don't know where, for example, gershkovich and whelan are right now. but the senior administration official she'll who we spoke with, said that they are expected to soon be in us custody, but that could take all day. this is a highly just tickle and complex operation to undertake. again, we believe involving multiple countries, some of the others who we believe may be involved in this swap of vadim krasikov would be the biggest name who the russians want. this is a colonel in the fsb, which is the successor to the kgb, has been and held for years by germany after carrying out a killing in a berlin park. and so as the u.s has tried to negotiate the release of gershkovich so wic and whelan,

the russians have been asking for krasikov and so the u.s has been putting pressure on germany to try to get them to release tim. so at the very least, we believe that the countries involved in today's exchange, or are the u.s. who would release several russian prisoners? there aren't very many high profile russian prisoners. there are people for example, who've been committed or who've been convicted of cybercrimes. that's the kind of prisoner who the u.s. would release germany would be expected to release krasikov as the, as the russians release paul whelan and evan gershkovich. one name i will also want to highlight vladimir kara-muza who is a russian british national. he is a, an award winning reporter, seen by the russians to be an opposition activist. he has it's also been held by the russians and germany, britain, the u.s. and other countries have been trying to get him

out. so we believe we are at the beginning of this historic day, a large swap involving multiple countries. but tremendous news right now that we can report from the biden administration that paul whelan and evan gershkovich are expected to be among those released today and would be returning home soon to the united states. >> i mean, at the beginning of what would truly be historic day here and as you mentioned, we are starting to see different departments in the united states, at least start to trickle out either confirmations or acknowledgments that this prisoner swap is underway. a kayla tausche, she is at the white house for us. kayla, what? what are you hearing from the white house omar, this has been a multiagency effort between the intelligence community, the state department, the national security dirty council, the president himself, as well as the department of justice. >> and this has been an ongoing effort for many, many years as the administration jenn has sought to bring home these

americans who have been wrongfully detained overseas. it's been not only a high priority for president biden, but a top priority for president then biden, he reiterated that message just last week in his speech from the oval office where he talked about his decision not to run for a second term and president biden it has been meeting regularly with the families of evan gershkovich with the families of paul whelan for multiple years the family of evan gershkovich was guest at the white house correspondents dinner in april 2023, shortly after evan was detained in russia and president biden spoke to them directly saying that journalism some was not a crime and that he was going to do everything in his power to bring them home. certainly behind the scenes, there have been furious negotiations for years at this point, as administration officials tried to assemble a deal that they believed would be attractive to russia to accept that had not happened until very recently. and that is why we're seeing this situation happening on

this timing specifically, of course, the administration did secure the release of wnba player brittney griner back in december 2022, in exchange for a soviet arms dealer known as the merchant of death. and at the time, the family of paul whelan a marine who himself with a software executive who was detained in russia even preceding the biden administration, his family was very critical of the fact that president biden greed to a deal that would bring griner home, but that would not secure the release of whelan shortly after that, evan gershkovich was detained in russia for his report according and then once again, a pen was put to paper as they tried to again, find the contours of a deal that would be seen as attractive to russia. but one did not exist at the time because of the lack of russian criminals in us custody that russia actually wanted to have back in country. this is going to be a un storch development if it happens and we stress if, because of

course, it has not happened yet, as far as we know, we are waiting for more details, but as far as what we expect from the president, it's been a relatively quiet week for president biden. there have been questions about why he has chosen to take certain events over the last two ish two-and-a-half days that he did not appear on camera when reporters asked the press secretary about when we would see president biden an on-camera, she said simply tune in. essentially signaling that there would be an event where we would see president biden later this week and it stands to reason reason that he would be willing to speak out if this is a prisoner swap that happens successfully. nsc spokesman john kirby was asked directly yesterday the white house press briefing about the potential for a swap involving multiple countries and he said, all i can say at this time is that they remain very devoted to delivering those americans and

those who are wrongfully detained all over the world including but not limited to evan gershkovich and certainly we await the news that that deal has actually happened absolutely all the reporting coming in right now is that they change is underway how long it will take before we see video, get confirmation. >> we're going to stand by it together and all of this. and as kayla was talking about paul whelan, he's been in he's been behind bars in russia since 20 his arrest in 2018. and during that time cnn reporter and producer jennifer hansler, has had the opportunity that she has that she's received calls. she's been able to speak to paul on the phone from time to time expressing his frustrations hearing his voice from a russian prison on what it has been like for him as he has been enduring this for now, five years, i want to play for you some just one bit of their conversations over the years this paul whelan talking about evan gershkovich i'm

sympathetic and empathetic man in his family. >> quite understand what they're going through. my family's certainly understands what they're going through. >> it's something that you just can't fathom. >> because if you're a tourist or like evan, he was just doing his job and you end up in a cage in a courtroom being told that you have to send 16 years hard labor just some of what we heard from paul whelan over the years to jennifer hansler and her amazing reporting in all of this. let's get over to kylie atwood, standing by the state department for us kylie, what details are coming in that you're picking up? are there more what are you hearing about possible? sibley more americans being involved to be released well, kate, just to put a fine point quickly on paul whelan, too, gives you an understanding of how long he has been detained in russia. >> he's been there as multiple cool americans have been detained, deemed wrongfully

detained, and then released all the while. he has been waiting for the moment where he is included in a prisoner swap and of course, we're learning that that is coming to fruition as we speak. it has been tremendous number of years, more than five years behind bars for him so it's been incredibly challenging those conversations with jennifer hansler has shown a light on the lows that he has been through, the moments where he has felt there might be breakthroughs one of the questions, as you said, is if there are other americans who are detained in russia who might be included in what we understand is going to be a massive prisoner swap that's underway, right? right now. we know of course that evan gershkovich is involved according to the biden administration. but there are other americans alex mentioned vladimir kara-muza, he's a prominent critic of the kremlin. he was detained in 20 22 actually, after he spoke on cnn and he said that the kremlin, that president

putin's regime is regime of murderers. so that is one we'll be watching to see if there there's any movement there. there's also all also kurmasheva. she is a journalist. she was working for rader radio free europe. she traveled back into russia sure last spring, last summer to visit her mother, and then she was detained both of her passports taken away from her, including, of course, her american passport. she has not gone through a trial, but her family has encouraged the state department to pay close attention to her case, specifically because they say there are so many similarities between her work and the work of evan gershkovich that wall street journal reporter who was deemed wrongfully detained by the state department. there's also marc fogel. he he is an american teacher who had been teaching in moscow for many years diplomats here at the state department actually know marc fogel pretty well because he is selling i'm one who taught their children while they were serving in russia.

now the school that he was working at has since closed. and when he was returning to russia in 20 21, he was going there for his final year of teaching and he was arrested. he was charged with smuggling of drugs. the same charge that we saw against britain and the griner who was then of course released in a falling prisoner swap. he hasn't been deemed wrongfully obtain detained, but he's someone who's family. we've been talking to has been worried about him has been worried about his health. so there are many individuals that we have been keeping an eye on. we'll watch to see if they are included and then of course, as you guys have been discussing, who else from around the globe, us officials have been able to secure as part of this overall deal because we just know that the united states didn't have many high value targets that the russians were wanting as part of a swap. >> and as far as those, those targets go, we know that there have been just a number of different names that have been floated around different opportunities, potentially at other points in the midst of

previous prisoner exchanges that we've seen. of course, every time it came up, whether it was trevor reed, brittney griner, there were questions over whether whether someone like paul whelan would be included and why or why not? they were not at the time stay with us, kylie, matthew chance, i want to bring you in here because look, as you spoken about before, you've done extensive reporting inside russia at points again, trying to get into the legal proceedings against evan go let's go wic there as well, what is your impression of what it took to get again, as far as we know, it's got these two paul whelan and evan gershkovich. >> what is your sense of what it would take to get to a swap of this magnitude from the russians? >> well it's taken a lot, a lot of painful negotiations, months, if not years, of op contact between the special services of the united states and russia. and of course,

it's a multinational effort as well. i'm not least, because the person that the russians want back more than anyone else is vadim krasikov the fsb colonel, and he was held not in the united states, but in germany and the germans had been very reluctant to just let out a convicted murderer, somebody who killed a chechen distance in broad daylight in a berlin park. just because the united states wanted, wanted them to a political pressure in germany for them not to do that and so it had to be worth germany's efforts and risk as well. i think that's why we're going to see a lot of people associated with germany who have been held in russian prisons that i'd also going to be a part of this deal because it's an ethical compromise that governments who released convicted criminals have to make after know, and have to be able to justify to their population at that it's worth it.

>> i think the other sort of aspect of this is who's going to be left behind in this big historic prisoner swap. >> we've been talking a bit about marc fogel. he was my neighbor in russia in moscow for many years, and he brought something about half a pound of cannabis into the country and is serving a 40 year prison sentence. there's a sense, i don't think i don't think he's not been talked about as somebody who's going to be part of this deal. there are other figures as well. gordon black is a us army staff sergeant. he beat his girlfriend who was convicted of doing that and stole money in russia. and he is serving a prison sentence. and then on a, on a broader level, i mean, what about alexey navalny alexey navalny, according to his team, was meant to be part of this deal. he was meant to be the person that the germans were going to swap that in krasikov fall but he died. he he died in a

russian prison at the beginning of this year. and so i know there are critics out there that say this was the kremlin ruthlessly taking their biggest critic the biggest kremlin critic, alexey navalny off the negotiating table. and so the deal that was that was in the offing that was being discussed that involved his release. would not be able to go ahead because he was no longer alive. and so look, there are all these people that have, that have been lost, that have been left behind as well. and so this is not a it's not a celebration, it's great news for the people that are they're being led out but it's, it's at a cost. i think that's an important aspect of this matthew chance really appreciate that perspective and just for our viewers to note and to put this in perspective, this is now the third major prisoner exchange between russia and us in just over two years in april 2022. >> that was the american trevor

reed, a us citizen, former marine. and then in december 2022, that's when we saw wnba star brittney griner released from russian detention we're following more details coming in. we're learning more about who the americans are that are set to be released where they are in terms of this prisoner swap more details coming in on this massive prisoner exchange that is underway between the u.s. and russia will be right back after this there was a numeric spirit. >> i shall not seek, and i will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your presence. 1960 years. sunday at nine on cnn. >> can the reeva's support your brain health mary janet hey, eddie, know fraser, frank, frank bred. how are you? >> fred, fuel up to seven brain health indicators, including your memory, joined the near-even brain health challenge judge, oliver,

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continue to follow this breaking news that has developing as we speak americans. paul whelan and evan gershkovich are expected to be included in a massive prisoner exchange between the united states, russia and several other countries, the significance of what is playing out right now in happening today cannot be overstated. the impact of this will be felt for days and far, far, far beyond these men wrongfully detained these two. we're talking about right here and you see on your screen wrongfully detained and in prison for years, whelan since 2018, gorshkov gershkovich has been detained for over a year and was recently sentenced to 16 years in russian prison. let me play you something more from a conversation between paul whelan and cnn producer jennifer hansler, as they have been able to communicate and have phone calls. at times throughout his time behind bars. an interview from a russian prison. listen

extremely maybe it's the best word to turn 54. and a russian prison it's a fully day with all sorts of small parties drinking, kicking coffee, and eating cake, some candy used and i have a thing a decent dinner and cake. >> and all purchase things with friends here it really takes you out over the being in prison thanks of thing that makes life seem bearable for a few minutes here and there here and there. i want to bring in right now jonathan franks, someone we have spoken many times. >> it's actually the first time we've ever been able to do in-person a spokesperson for the bring our families home campaign. you were also involved in getting another american detained, trevor reed released in 2022. we have you know, this process unfortunately better than many people should, your reaction to today, jonathan?

>> well, i don't want to get ahead of the white house and know they haven't confirmed it yet, but assuming what's reported is true, what a miracle we've been waiting for paul to come home since trevor got out, since trevor found out that he paul wouldn't be on the plane so what the administration is apparently pulled off today's both historic and, you know this is going to be a legacy piece for president biden that they've brought home historic number of people during this administration and jonathan, i mean, look, this is not the first person sinner swap. >> we have seen. each one has its own set of difficulties and intricacies but i think there a sense when trevor reed came home, when brittney griner came home, that paul whelan was being left behind and i'm curious in those cases is to the extent that you were involved how much of that do you believe what's true? and were you surprised to see that he wasn't included in previous deals that were made? >> i was not surprised that he didn't come home with trevor. i was a little surprised that he didn't come home with brittney

griner and that's a function of the russians, having built him up as the second coming of the rosenberg says, even though, he's transparently not guilty you were involved in getting trevor reed out and it was a huge moment. he's, he sat down and spoke with cnn and the aftermath and hearing his story, he was released in 2022, had been wrongfully detained for was it three years, nearly three years, i think was around there how do you get there? what does it take? each one is different, but i'm trying to just give everyone at home some perspective on what all has been going on behind the scenes to pull this off. >> so trevor's case was sort of unique and it was the first and this administration, the first swap. so in a sense, we had to go out and sell the russian inmates that were being swapped and as i said back then those swaps were not dangerous to the united states in neither of the people swapped either for trevor or for brittney griner has caused any danger to the united states since they've told us a little bit but i can

live with that in the same sense that there's controversy on this trade, apparently includes mr. krasikov. i am not at all worried about that. mr. krasikov is effectively confined to russia, iran, venezuela, and maybe china for the rest of his life. so there's not a lot of chance that he would do harm to an american or any of our allies. >> and can you just give us to sense to take yourself back to the trevor reed portions. obviously, we're trying to get as many details as we can. the whereabouts included are being kept very sensitively for obvious reasons. since but what is happening at this particular moment when the news starts to trickle out? what do you believe? where do you believe they are in the process of whether physically getting these folks out or just conversation wise and i want to be clear, i'm speculating entirely for sure based on your experience with trevor reed eventually if this is true a an airplane will land on an airstrip somewhere in trevor's case, they use turkey in brittney's case, i believe they use the uae or saudi.

>> i can't remember who knows that there will be an exchange on a tarmac somewhere. and if history is a guide of the russians will probably have a camera crew along and we'll probably see you on state tv before we see it here. >> that's, that's a great point and just communications and being able to continue advocating for the release of these americans who don't have a voice is something that's so important and you've been described many times as what was trevor reed's most important communications allies? i am jonathan stick with us if you will want to get over to cnn's jim sciutto. he's talking to a lot of his sources as well. what are you hearing, jim, you're hearing from getting some reaction initial reaction may be from family and friends that's right. >> i've been speaking to someone close to the families and let's be clear here. this is the potential end of a very long, difficult, and painful road for the families and invariably, there's a great deal of nervousness right up until the final point until they see their relatives are

free and clear. and of course, we're dealing with the russians here who are not always a reliable partner in negotiation. so we should begin with that caveat. but my understanding from this person close to the families who is in fact with him right now, is that there is a great deal of elation a great deal of relief anticipation, but also some understandable remaining nervousness because they of course, kate and omar, they want to see this deal done and they're not going to be confident, fully confident that the deal is done until they see their loved ones free and clear. but you can imagine in this moment with so much uncertainty, so many false starts, you think particularly the whelan family, right where they thought they were going to be parts of other swaps that did happen and he was not involved. so they've been burned before. so you understand as they go into this, they will always enter with that with that sense of nervousness, but as i speak to this person, boy, this is quite

a day for them and there's an enormous amount of anticipation right now. >> and that's the thing. look from the outside, looking in this is a historic day, but at the center of this, as it sounds like some of your conversations get at these are families trying to process and deal with when their loved ones are going to come home, dealing with false starts at point not understanding. okay. maybe it's going to happen, maybe it's not but as you point out as well, there's still a lot more hurdles before it sounds like they'll they'll feel satisfied with what's happening. >> jim yeah, go ahead. >> think about how many players are involved in this, right? >> because it's multiple countries involved, it's not just the u.s. and russia. you have germany involved where there was resistance to releasing someone who's a convicted killer, right? this in this broader negotiation here, as we see it come to be that makes it all the more difficult i will add just one final point. it shows you that even in the midst of what is a crisis level relationship between moscow and washington? largest war in europe and

ukraine, the u.s. on one side supporting the ukrainians, russia, of course, continuing their invasion, a number of other places around the globe where the u.s. and russia are clashing, that they are still able to have diplomatic conversations like this one in deeply difficult circumstances. and if there is a sliver of light, right in that relationship, it is that you can still have these negotiations and conversations and that's important absolutely. jim. thanks. >> okay. which kind of helping us refocus on at the center of this, what this is really all about. human beings and getting human beings back to their, back to their families. james working his sources, we're going to kick a quick break and reset on the other side much more to comment more details to come everyone waiting for the moment that we we'll see for the first time video. believe inevitably we will see when these americans will be released and back in us custody. >> we'll be right back.

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raise joined me at trying.com ceo is about to take off there's no one that goes the things i were personal animus what pro wrestling can be we wednesday night dynamited aid on tbs this is cnn breaking news welcome back, everyone. the major breaking news happening as we speak a massive prisoner exchange is underway between the united states and russia expected to include high-profile jailed americans, paul whelan and evan gershkovich. >> i want to bring in bring back in, i should say cnn's alex marquardt, who's learning what we might be able to expect happened today, alex, i know there's a lot of moving parts at this point information is only trickling out but what have you heard so far so many

moving parts omar kagan on top of the history and emotion that we will see today. >> it's also going to be very dramatic if past is prologue precedent, this is going to be something that's out of a movie. we have seen on video, the releases of trevor reed, and brittney griner of viktor boot from the u.s to the russians. so we're going to start to see in the coming hours photos and videos released by different governments, released by different agencies. what we expect to happen. and again, this is we don't have the details of how this is going to unfold, but how it's happened in the past is that planes from these different countries carrying these prisoners converge on a tarmac in a third country in the past with brittney griner for example, it took place in the united arab emirates there were prisoners released from iran who are transferred in doha, the capital of qatar. turkey. it has also been playing a role in this. so we could see prisoners

being exchanged in the capitol at the airport. there in ankara. so this is one of the details that we're trying to find out. and because this is a multi-country deal, we believe you're going to be seeing airplanes likely coming in from different places now, the russians, as they have in the past, i believe your previous guest alluded to this they have in the past released video and photos before others. so we could see some things coming out of they're russian state media. but when it comes to the prisoners who are coming home to united states, and i should note that that could include a kremlin critic, vladimir kara-murza, who is a russian and british national, but also has permanent residency here in the u.s. and we've heard calls from us lawmakers to have him released. we could see him coming back to the united the state's alongside evan gershkovich and paul whelan we don't know where they're going to land in the u.s. obviously, that could be a variety of airports. but what is likely to happen? and it is that they would be offered medical and

psychological services in texas. there's the brooke army medical complex the medical center rather, this is part of the biggest medical complex in the department of defense system. and we have seen brittney griner and trevor reed go there in the past it's in san antonio and they have a program called a post-isolation support activities often referred to as pisa. and that helps people who have been in captivity, who have suffered traumatic events to get back on their feet, essentially both through medical and psychological political support. so this day is going to be, it's going be complicated. they're going to be a lot of moving parts. it's gonna be full of emotion and full of history, but there's a lot that is going to happen. we believe we're just at the beginning stages of that, guys. >> so much so much is going to happen today. first and foremost everything that leads

up to getting these people to wherever, wherever they're going to be to have the swap happened. just that a moment. we're going to actually see the first video of it. it's so i'm so much looking forward to it, it's so anticipated after so many years, especially for paul whelan yellen home whelan spoken to cnn several times throughout his imprisonment. one of those times in the wake of russian opposition leader alexey navalny's death. and whelan spoke candidly than about his own fears that he could also be killed extremely troubling that someone like navalny would die under suspicious circumstances. but it's also extremely worrying for me. this is this total thing that goes on here. >> let's bring in right now cnn contributor, former cnn moscow bureau chief jill doherty, cnn national security analyst steve hall, and cnn political national security analyst david sanger is back with us as well steve, want to start with you, just give me

your your reaction and what you're thinking about in this moment as we are all waiting for this one volt yeah, i think everything that alex and other reporters have been talking about is absolutely the case. >> i've seen these things happened before. they're extremely complicated. it's not easy for those of us on the outside because these negotiations and then the arrangements, shared agreements be made are extremely or very close held. but i think it's really important also to remember the context here this is not a court proceeding, these are not legal proceedings in russia. this is a farce, this is hostage taking on the part of the russians and they force us then to do what, what us and other countries are in the process of trying to do? you now, which is essentially negotiate hopefully in good faith to get our own national citizens back where they belong after they've been kidnapped in russia. it's going to be a long and interesting day and well, it'll, be interesting to see how it all breaks down, but those are my initial thoughts. >> and jill, i want to bring you in here because look, you're the former moscow bureau chief for us at cnn and one of, the things that i think

as we await potential images of a plane landing on a runway, that's how it's going to be reported here in the united states as we continue to watch for it. but as far as information trickling out in russia goes, what is the perspective? from a russian citizen going to be over what actually took place here yeah, i think that's a really good question there is no question that the person who decides this is vladimir putin and so when he wants news to break, it will break in. >> the russian pdf, which are essentially at this point completely propaganda oregon's. so it will be presented in russia as whatever putin wants. so you have to climb into putin's mind, which we of course can't do but number one, he is a former kgb agent. and when you talk about the main person that he wanted back, it's an fsb, the former kgb officer, who has been held

in germany. so that's number one. now, due russians care, that kgb guy came back maybe, but i think it could also be presented as president putin being able to to muster a lot of diplomacy to get what he wants. he's a very transactional person and so i think my question is, when learned about this, we're really why and why now? and it's extremely complex as everybody has been pointing out. but i think i just throw into the mix here that since the invasion, the full-scale invasion of ukraine, a lot of russian intelligence agents have been rolled up as they say around the world and they're actually are quite a few people well, scattered in different countries. and are slovenia here in the united states, germany, et cetera. so they once we see the entire plan,

think it'd be very interesting to see potentially how this came together absolutely. >> david what do you think about how far the impact could reach of a massive a massive swap like this. no one obviously thinks that after this diplomatic relations between the united states and russia completely unfreeze absolutely not but what do you think the rent be the longer term kind of tentacles of impact could be from this today it's a great question, kate, because as we've noted before, this would be assuming it happens and we all want to be quite cautious since nothing is as happened yet. >> but if it does happen this would be the third case of a swap and if the rumors are clear are true, it may be well be the largest so then the question is is putin simply doing this to avoid leaving

intelligence officers about whom he feels deeply given his own past and the kgb on the battlefield or does he see this as a moment to indicate in the midst of a us presidential election and so forth, that he may be open to negotiation. >> he hasn't various moments said that he wouldn't negotiate on ukraine. but with the condition of course that he gets to hold on to all the land that is currently he's taken, which is nearly 20% of the country. and of course, the u.s. position has been only the ukrainians could agreed to give that up so now the question is, could this be the beginning of a back-channel between him, the u.s. nato and the ukrainians. i have my doubts that anybody could do that in the midst in the last 98 days presidential campaign or 97 days of that but

at least it chosen opening and remember there's one other big thing that's cooking with russians at this point we are 18 months away from the expiration of all last big arms control treaty new start and if that expires with no no successor. >> and right now, there is no sign of one. >> we're off to a big arms race, which would be expensive for both sides, but particularly offensive from putin david sanger, jill dougherty, steve hall really appreciate your time and perspective. just a quick reset for everyone before we continue with this breaking news, a large scale prisoner swap is underway as multiple sources have told cnn, a prisoner swap between in the united states and russia that we do understand includes paul whelan and evan gershkovich. we're continuing to get details for you. we'll have more on that. >> coming up after the break, stay with us this is the home

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>> someone needs to customize and save hundreds, have liberty mutual wait there's an elevator. >> only pay for what you need labor day bounce-back, fast, and how cohen was comes gummy bites and love back in i'm paula reid in washington and this is cnn welcome back everyone to the major breaking news. >> a massive prisoner exchange is underway between the united states and russia. the details of this, we are still trying to track down, but what we do know is americans paul whelan and evan gershkovich are expected to be in included. both of them falsely jailed on espionage charges. gershkovich has spent the last 13 months behind bars

while whelan has spent the better part of six years fighting for his freedom, joining us now is cnn senior white house correspondent kayla tausche, with more kayla, what are you hearing? over there at the white house well, certainly omar the delivery of americans or anyone wrongfully detained back to their home country is but we'll goal regardless of who is undertaking it. >> but given that this is likely to be happening in the year 2024, there will be a political backdrop it is inevitable to this situation. you may remember that at the end of june, donald trump, who of course is running for president for the republican ticket, who formerly held this office, said that if he were elected, he would be the one who would be freeing evan gershkovich and back in december 2022, he criticized president biden at the time for the deal that he secured to release wnba star brittany griner in exchange for the soviet arms dealer at nicknamed the merchant of death.

president trump, former president trump suggesting at the time that he had turned down a deal while he was in office for paul whelan in exchange for viktor boot the so-called merchant of death. but then criticized president biden for free. brittney griner, but not freeing paul whelan. and we'll alongside her so certainly there's going to be a political discussion that follows this, but i think that president biden has talked for years about his ability and his work behind the scenes to strengthen the alliance's of the united states overseas. and there's no question that the u.s. and the white house in particular needed to lean on some of those alliances with multiple countries in order to secure the potential for a deal like this to happen. so certainly expect that to be something that we hear from the white house if and when this deal is to happen and something that we expect to hear from democrats more broadly plea absolutely. >> kayla is at the white house for us going to be bring us any updates you hear from there still here with us is jonathan

franks, spokesperson for the bring our families home campaign. he was involved in the release and helping to secure the release of former us marine trevor reed in 2022 it's underway as all the reporting and what all the sources are saying. we haven't seen the video, we haven't had confirmation that they are in now out of russian custody, in us custody. how touching go are these moments that we're sitting in right now? >> i'm not sure there's anything more touching go than the hostage recovery like this. and when we see it as americans on tv, that's because ambassador carstens in his team has spent the better part of weeks or a month orchestrating in choreographing these in hopes of nothing going wrong at the last possible second but, assuming one is underway, i do think the first we will see if it will be on russian tv as it passes precedent. precedent. that is how they've orchestrated the past and just a backup, just even a little bit what how intricate are these details and especially as we understand, could involve

multiple countries and multiple prisoners and multiple context and especially when you're dealing with folks that some might not view as equals an arms dealer for an athlete what is that dynamic in some of these final moments you know, i've been saying for a long time that the u.s. >> government ought to just do these prisoner traits, right? because letting these things linger, right? i understand you know, giving trading an arms dealer for a basketball player seems unequal. well, unfortunately that's the reality of hostages. if we sat around and waited for equal deals, we'd bring nobody home. so this was a pretty courageous deal, assuming krasikov is in it and you know, also tremendous thanks to the german government. they were not wild about the idea of giving him back. so they've done us a great service and talk about krasikov a little bit. >> i mean, he is he's a murderer. and if he is if he is part of the deal that he would be he's the top name that everyone has been talking

about. >> for sure he's is assassin using fsb operative in an assassin and the reason i'm not worried about giving them back to russia is because he's a made man. i think it will be confined to russia, iran, and venezuela. the rest of his life and that may be a punishment equivalent to being in jail and just as we await, again, hopefully some of those incredibly positive images getting us this final confirmation that we're still waiting on for with bated breath what are those first moments like back home? >> how do you readjust after what i'm sure was such a harrowing time. >> each prisoners unique i've had prisoners come back that for instance, wouldn't sleep on a bed because they'd been sleeping on concrete for so long that they couldn't actually sleep. i've seen prisoners that it had been kept inside that keep all the shades drawn, and they need blackout shades because they've been held in the dark it takes minute to recalibrate and one of the things the government does is they have, the army runs the world's most

successful hostage reintegration program in san antonio. and that program does a great job helping them get over for the initial bumps in hurdles and really set them up for success. and i will say every client of mine that's ever gone through the san antonio program has come out successfully and in this moment, you're thinking, we're really have to think of evan's family, paul's family, and also the family you worked so closely with trevor reed's family and what they are thinking about, what trevor reed is thinking about today. >> it's a huge moment for so many and it is not over yet, of course, absolutely not. so. thank you so much, jonathan, for being here really appreciate you coming in so quickly and joining us. and thank you all so much for being with us. stay with us. our breaking news coverage of what is a history storch day in this prisoner swap underway between the united states and russia continues after a quick break 1968, sunday at nine on cnn shortly other courts right to

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