come to you 800 a31, 3,700 hundred hello, and welcome to the alan for our i'm bianna golodryga in for christiane. here's where we're headed this week if he wasn't born in this country, he shouldn't be the president of the united states, but i don't know. >> is she indian? >> rishi black from birtherism to questioning color, the racist attacks donald trump weaponizes to undermine his opponents. harvard law professor randall kennedy on how race is shaping the election also this hour keir starmer versus elon musk in a showdown over free speech as race riots royal the u.s. okay. >> then the afghan youth orchestra that rose from the ashes after the taliban's brutal crackdown on music and

venezuela in a political deadlock flashback to christiane's 2014 conversation with defiant president nicholas maduro welcome to the program, everyone. i'm bianna golodryga in new york, sitting in for christiane amanpour. will donald trump has added again, weaponizing racist attacks against his political opponents i didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black and now she wants to be known as black. so i don't know. is she indian or is she black? >> well, from questioning kamala harris is blackness to outrage over her birther claims once again, about president a barack obama. it's a tactic trump had used for years to rally his base he sent so doubt, raising questions about who his opponents really are, where they were born, and what their true ethnicity is. but at the heart of all of it is pure, unadulterated racism. and it has animated american politics dating back centuries with me to break down what a kamala

harris presidency means for racism in america is harvard law professor and racial politics experts. randall kennedy. randall kennedy, welcome to the program. and it's notable that in your 2021 books, say it out loud, you wrote this i do not expect in the remainder of my life to glimpse much less enjoy a progressive racial promised land here we are. now we have kamala harris, a biracial woman, half african american, half indian, who was named a new democratic presidential nominee. to challenge donald trump. i'm wondering, given this, does that progressive racial promised land that you said now looked out of reach is it once again in reach in your view? >> i'm very hopeful at this moment. i think that this is a moment that is filled with promise. we have a sitting vice president of the united states who is a black woman she is now the standard bear for the

presidency, for the democratic party she has a very good chance of prevailing and of course, throughout american life, there are many examples of african american and other people of color who are in positions of influence, positions of authority positions of respect. and i think that that bodes well for our democracy. and says a lot about the promise of american life. >> yeah, and the fact that joe biden is no longer on the ticket, and now we have kamala harris on top of the ticket that seems to really have rattled donald trump. and he has now been forced. it appears you go back to his old tricks just last week at nasa association of black journalists convention, he once again went there speculating about her race, suggesting that she's not actually a black woman that she is indeed indian. and we know that she, she is biracial. she has never

hid from that fact that her mother was indian. her father's black jamaican, and yet here donald trump was once again doing what he's done in the past. where are you surprised to see him go there? no, i wasn't surprised. >> it's not that he's going back to his old tricks. this is this is part of his program this is part of his ongoing rhetoric. he has never departed from his his, his policy and his practice of racial resentment. he's been very successful. unfortunately, in pushing racial resentment but that's what he's doing. you mentioned birtherism of course, it's untrue. his claim about, for instance, the former president barak obama being born outside of the united states. it's untrue and people should know that. but people should also fastened on a second point that i don't think has gotten enough attention and

that is that our constitution does say that you cannot be president of the united states. >> if you were born abroad, if you have to be a natural born american citizen it seems to me that that's a bad thing, and i hope that sometime in the future that part of our constitution will be changed because there are millions of people in the united states who have given their all for the united states and anybody who is a citizen of the united states, natural born or naturalized, should be able to vie for the presidency on that issue of birtherism. >> i'd like to play some sound that we've compiled. if some of donald trump's previous statements questioning where barak obama, president obama was born. and then we'll talk on the other side. >> the fact is, if he wasn't born in this country shouldn't be the president of the united states. there's a real question about the birth certificate. three weeks ago when i started, i thought he

was probably born in this country and now i really have a much bigger doubt than i did before. >> why doesn't he show his birth certificate? so we know that ultimately did lead barack obama to show his birth certificate wondering in terms of how you think is best for kamala harris and her campaign to respond to these attacks. once again these veiled swipes at her ethnicity, at her background how much how much emphasis, how much effort should she put in in combatting this? >> well, in my view, i think that she should be straightforward in responding. but i would not allow donald trump's racial resentment to meyer hurricane to the sea. i don't think that she should be quiet in the face of these attacks, but they should shouldn't spend all of her time responding to his

baseness. i think that she should look up, go forward, be positive, appeal to the best then the american people. >> we know that prior to her nomination to the ticket there had been some i guess concern within the democratic party that still while the majority of the black vote in the united states was democratic, that we'd seen an increase over time, particularly with black a commend to vote, or at least be curious about donald trump he even, it's sometimes appear to be wooing them as well. and yet here, now that his opponent is kamala harris i can't see how in any of his attacks he's doing anything to bring on more black voters. what do you make of it? i'm raising this because there's new polling new reuters ipsos polling suggesting that since kamala harris has been named to the ticket, that she is drawing

more support among black americans. do you think that any inroads that donald trump may have been making now? i've been shattered two things. >> number one, anybody who listens to donald trump should be very aware of his of his reach if his willingness to tap into racial bigotry so certainly the targets of racial bigotry in the united states ought to be turned off to him. that's number one secondly, i think that there has been a tremendous amount of energy, positive energy unleashed in favor of kamala harris. and her ticket and i think that that's going to continue. and i think that that's going to carry her over the top. i certainly hope so. >> how do you think she can continue this momentum now that

vp pick has been named and to take get his firm in place, i think that she simply should continue to do actually what she's been doing. and that is to set forth very straightforwardly, very clearly her vision for the future and talk to people about the things that they care about she should talk with people and so that her policies will be better for them than the policies of the trump ticket. i think that if she does that and i think that she will do that. and i think that she will prevail. >> randall kennedy. thank you so much for the time today. we appreciate you joining us. >> thank you. >> coming up on the show as race riots rocked, the uk, a showdown over misinformation, mux spreading between the uk government and billionaire elon musk and later. in the hour, the afghan orchestra that rose from the ashes after escaping the taliban's brutal crackdown on freedoms most of us take for granted the democratic national

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keir starmer. the uk has been rocked by days of far-right race riots targeting muslims and minority communities they're being fueled by misinformation and stoked by bad actors online. after three little girls were stabbed to death at a taylor swift dance class in the northwest of england. the billionaire owner of x, elon musk pumped out a series of niger tweets. he called civil war inevitable and accused starmer's government of double standards policing. starmer had this to say in response let me also say to large social media companies and those who run them violent disorder. >> clearly with top online that is also a crime. the law must be upheld everywhere. we will take all necessary action to keep our streets safe meanwhile, on this side of the pond, musk has been spreading deep fakes, undermining kamala harris, his bid for the presidency from his personal account. >> and x's own ai chatbot grok

has been generally writing false election information, like the claim that harris was ineligible because she'd missed the ballot deadline in nine states. she didn't and she is for the record, what recourse do governments have when social media allies threatened to destabilise elections and entire nations and has elon musk cross the line? here to discuss, we have emily glaser from the wall street journal and the atlantic's nicholas thompson. welcome to the show. both of you. thank you so much for joining us. so this is a story that unfortunately didn't get enough attention. i think here in the united states, these riots that unfolded in the uk quite alarming and a big test it's for a new prime minister and his new government. >> and obviously we have the element of social media as well. >> and nicholas, let me start with you, because here you have elon musk weighing in to what's unfolding on the streets in the uk and saying civil war is inevitable, that

was met with a response bonds from the uk prime minister's office saying there was no justification for these comments. what do you make of it what does it add to the level of confusion? i would say in a timed irresponsibility at the hands of someone as powerful as elon musk elon musk has two roles here. he's a participant tweeting his own things. you know, adding his voice into these conversations. and then as owner of a platform, which he is shaping two more and more aligned with his political views what's happening in social media if there's always been this really interesting trade-off between privacy safety and free speech. >> and every platform chooses a position and musk is really tilting away from safety really tilting in another direction and finding a different spot. >> and as a result, the benefits that come from that, but they're also a lot of

costs as we see from time to time, like this past week, i was thinking back to the 2020 election when twitter and other platforms are rolling out, even more measures to curb the spread of miss and disinformation up until right before the election, twitter was putting labels on information that was spreading. anything that could incite violence and site hateful speech. and they had found that and it was a company under different ownership. i think they labeled roughly 300,000 posts and that it's significantly decrease the spread of that type of information that's obviously changed as elon musk has brought this company, it's private. he's running it, he's shaping the activities. britain does have a certain regulation that i believe is going into effect later this year. that is meant to curb the spread of information that incites violence online. so it'll be interesting to see how that could change what's happening here. >> do you think this is something that's elon musk takes seriously?

>> well, i think he will have to take it seriously. i made all of these platforms. ultimately, they expound these very strong principles and then they have to comply with a law. they have to comply with it in europe, which obviously has streaming robust regulations. and now they'll have to comply with it with the new uk regulations. so he will push back, he will fight. he will say this as censorship, but ultimately, there'll be a balance rate has to comply. >> i would say, from reporting on elon musk for many years, help pay the fine. it's pennies to them if they if they do get fined and move on, it doesn't have the same type of impact let's shift to the u.s election here, nic, because elon musk has put his thumb on the scale for donald trump that happened right after that assassination attempt a few weeks ago. now we know donald trump said on truth social that he's going to be doing an interview with elon on monday. and the fact that you have the owner of one of the world's most influential online sites really being quite honest and public about who he supporting

in this race. does that matter i think it definitely matters. >> i think that it will change the reputation of twitter if i owned a massive online platform, i would stay out of politics. if you want your platform to be a public town square, it is probably better if people feel like they can express any opinion and the owner doesn't share one very specific view, but that is a different preview from what musk has. >> the actual relationship between musk and trump. very confusing. >> they both have extremely idiosyncratic, hard to place. politics musk is now viewed as this edge lord figure of the right, but there's a man who has done more to combat climate change than any other inventor, an american he clearly, as he said, i believe it was in the lex friedman podcast, you talked about crump's masculinity, anger standing up for america. >> but i wouldn't be surprised if musk's politics flip back.

>> and i also think some of musk's regard for trump was due to his tension with biden over biden's comments about electric cars and excluding tesla. so it's very, very complicated, but i think the bottom line is x would feel more like the thing musk says he wants it to feel like it is an open town square if musk would stay quiet on big political issues. >> emily nick stand by. >> we'll continue this conversation when we come back. why it's not all doom and gloom, i like to hear that for democracy they are short. ever really appropriate in the office will discuss after the break tomorrow on the whole story donie donie. >> donie? have been daibes back into the world of misinformation their computers that are using our election have software that was illegal and it's connected to where china has conspiracy theories intensive by on both sides. how

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closed captioning brought to you by mesobook.com if you or a loved one have neizha helium up, we'll send you a free book to answer questions you may have called now and we'll come to you 800 a31, 3,700 welcome back to the program picking up where we left off with my panel and laser from the wall street journal and the atlantic's nicholas thompson. welcome back. both of you. so as we promised, it's not all doom and gloom, especially in light of concerns, nic, that we have had for a number of years it's about the state of democracy around the world. in particular, here in the u.s. as we approach another presidential election, very contentious one. and the role social media may or may not play. talk about why you're not as pessimistic as others well, i've been terrified for democracy and the rise of a talker. see for a long time. >> but if you look at the last

910 months of elections, the world has been doing pretty well we had good elections in south africa poland, mexico is able to elect and female jewish leader, same party france, britain contentious, complicated elections. >> india, an extraordinary election. and what you're seeing is that democracy is holding and democracy. in fact, is holding even when very powerful leaders, it liberal leaders like modi in a news, you're obviously massive support, but not a true democrat and the liberal sense, when they lose or when they have to cede power, the transition has actually been working and that is what you want from democracy. you want incumbents that lose fair elections. they handed off obviously there are counterexamples as we are seeing in venezuela, but in general, the world has been able to handle democracies during a time where social media is making everybody angry during a time where ai is making it quite possible to make deep they extending a time where a lot of civic life, and

that civic ties that hold us together and make democracy work or shattering. and i'm pretty optimistic and pleased by what we've seen so far. now, can this hold through the american election? >> we will see, but for now, i think the world's democracy of kind of done. >> all right, the last year while i really want to share knicks optimism, i think maybe from being a reporter on the ground, writing about some of this stuff day-to-day. >> i i worry a little bit about what could happen in the united states. i have talked to ceos who said their companies are based in dc in there are keeping their offices closed on election day and on inauguration day. i think there's a lot of ptsd from the capital riots and people are just concerned about whether, like you said, the results will actually be accepted in the u.s us. so that's a bit more of a domestic point of view. and i apologize for being pessimistic, but will see what happens. but it might not be pretty. >> i think that protecting american democracy and doing

everything that everybody can do to make sure that the election results or hold is the most important challenge of right now, i'm very worried about at my point was only that's so far democracy is holding. but yes, i completely agree with emily. this is very worst, absolutely crucial. >> let's go back to another important subject and i'm talking about workplace attire. things quickly changed during the days of covid when we learned to work from home and zoom into office meetings wearing perhaps work on top and play on on bottom and some people now think that that those trends may, may still hold into the actual office-based. now that we've returned, including shorts so i'm going to ask my panel this very important questions. are shorts appropriate to wear in the office? emily, you first i'm an old soul and i'm all about etiquette. and while certain jobs like factory floor, perhaps, or delivery folks might be appropriate, i think in white-collar corporate jobs, i'm going to go with no,

because you might have a meeting with a client or your boss and i think you want to be present yourself in the most professional way possible. >> nick, i run commuted to my job for the last 20 years, so every single morning for 20 years, i show up in shorts, but i do then shower and generally tried to change into a suit to compensate for it nick is also the boss, so i do think it's a little different when you're a soldier on the ground and maybe meeting with the person in the corner office versus being the person in the corner office? i don't do meetings in my running shorts, but it is true. i also i wore my running shorts when i worked at conde nast and i would ride the elevator up in my shorts with the editors of vogue in general, i agree with emily's colossally for during the meeting during the day when you're talking to people, you're meeting the clients and you're meeting with partners. >> if you are a solar contributor and you are writing an essay, and you are going to be just in a corner typing away. i'm not going to get mad if you're wearing shorts but,

you know i'm not going to do that vogue and gq have signed off on this in some ways, you know, they prefer dressy shorts, so i will say, like in many ways there is an arbiter of fashion, but my colleague at the wall street journal did write a story recently and tim gunn of project runway said, absolutely not. so i'm just sticking with tim gun on this one. it's a no for me. >> yeah. if tim gunn can make it work, no one can except perhaps nick, while he's running. emily, nick great to see you. this a fund conversation, important topics we've covered as well. thanks so much for joining us. have a great weekend was wonderful, great to see you, bianna. thank you, emily thank you. >> up next on the show, escaping afghanistan, the youth orchestra that rose from the ashes after fleeing the taliban's brutal crackdown on music the only thing we have is music the edge moments that

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oppressive regime are now rebuilding their lives overseas portugal became one such sanctuary where musicians sought refuge. and that's where the afghan youth orchestra rose from the ashes as their us tour got underway this week, i spoke to two of its members along with their director who wants narrowly survived a suicide bombing let's start on a positive note, and that is that you are here in the united states, in new york. you were playing before carnegie hall and then in washington dc as well at the kennedy center. the last time you were there with some 2013 how does it feel to be back? >> it's very, very, very much exciting to be able be back in the united states and also to play in this two prestigious venues which is the diehm of every musician to be there. but it's sort of significantly important to there for us not only terms of sharing the beauty of afghan music in this wonderful music festival of the organizations being here so to

play with all this circus that's and to clean carnegie hall is also beautiful symbol of solidarity of the world with african musician, with african people, with afghan women it's a tribute to show the beauty, to show the resilience, and to show the hope, and to spite people so what is your message to girls around the world here in the united states who take having the opportunity to play music for granted as just a given right for them, it's really hard to live afghans and situation that is no working the studying, no music, nothing i think i want to american woman to be to stand with all

omens and i'll go in big the voice of a woman for all of them i know this is very difficult for you soar and i also know that because of the opportunity you have in portugal where you have moved, and the institute has been taken into the country to allow you to continue what you're doing you haven't been able to see your family and afghanistan. >> you have a two-year-old sister who you've never met, know can you tell me a little bit about your family? >> my family another guy. the sun i live in further gotta get my cousin and my uncle my family is is a very open family because my uncles and office it

wasn't great how is it happed place for me, afghanistan with my family before i taiwan came, after the district, everything i just want you to know that i'm so sorry that you're going through this, but you are so brave to do what you're doing and you're sending such a powerful message. >> and i believe your family must be very proud of you to ali, when the taliban came back in 2021, i would imagine that was a very dark day for you and you probably knew that your days as a musician and afghanistan were numbered yeah. i remember those days it was very dark days. and went all up on talk afghanistan. >> we all feel so sad because the only thing we have is

music. >> the only thing we have to play and the only hope that we have to raise our weiss and play music to the world. and show our music too. and that's what we want. it's not it's not easy for us and those that i remember the. day was the day that. the taliban took over the kabul and i shocked and i was like for a week, i was thinking about this and it was a very bad situation for us and i know you were in australia at the time when the taliban came back to power. >> you went back to ghana's stan after the fall of the taliban and it's not as if things weren't dangerous there at the time. there were elements of society that's still wanted to shut down music. there was the bombing at a concert. you've got injured, lost part of your hearing i'm

wondering do you think the world is doing enough? >> now it's been three years, almost three years since their return is the world doing enough now to bring justice once again to the people of it afghanistan. unfortunately, afghanistan is forgotten today it's a forgotten place especially in the law us too. >> yes and that's why when we are playing outside, i consider each time we play out azin opportunity to raise once again and i what and to put afghanistan doing peninsula rina once again, we are witnessing attempts to legitimize taliban and the taliban boolean afghanistan it, is very dangerous and which is very unpleasant. >> and so therefore, i would call on the international community on the people of goodwill to make sure that the taliban do not get that national and international

legitimacy. it is a terror group. it was a terror group and it reminds a terror group and you can watch are longer conversation online at amanpour.com when we come back as political chaos rocks, venezuela, the time per sheon challenge president nicholas maduro on his legitimacy this fall comedy us coming to cnn go wrong i got news for you for me or saturday, september 14 at nine on cnn what does it mean to be outfront? >> it's going there. we are just about three miles from the gaza border. it's context and curiosity so you can be outfront to, let's go outfront. >> erin burnett, outfront weeknights at seven on cnn. >> the diary this did i get it kicks where are my keys memory

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>> it's time to switch to earth breaks at earth breeze.com. >> i, hanako montgomery in tokyo. and this is welcome back to the amanpour hour. venezuela is fighting for its future more than a week after a highly contested election thousands have flooded the streets and protests tearing down statues of hugo chavez as his successor and the country's current president, nicholas maduro clings to his legacy and his attempt to claim reelection the us eu and others have rejected maduro's win while a defiant opposition led by edmundo gonzalez vows to fight back. but the current chaos and golfing venezuela isn't entirely new. just one year after chavez his death and maduro was zoomed power. christiane met with the new

president and caracas, venezuela in 24 14, just as he had taken control over a deeply fractured country amid claims of electoral fraud back then to, in this country polarization has been emblematic of politics fought for many, many years while you have supporters, the chavistas, the chevys bow movement. there are also a huge amount of people who oppose your policies. and that was it's reflected in the last elections, it was quite close. the last elections is this something that you can say? >> looking into our camera to the opposition something? about unity, something about trying to unify the country remainder of the mila polar accessible regarding polarization in all democracy there are polls and recent debate of ideas and the u.s. >> you have the democrats if and the republicans, right? >> you mentioned that i want

elections with this a short margin at good happening. any country with 1.5% of difference. >> and look what i did what i did media i called upon the mayors, governors of the opposition we met in december or twice in january we were drafting a plan. the plan was ready to fight crime and drug trafficking. a global plan, and all of a sudden, there was this call you go against the rule of law could attack, right to extra meat. and this whole planet that we had at the national dialogue that i convened yet again, you have mentioned the opposition. >> again, you call them radicals extremist. brazil. you saw how they dealt with their mass protests. they tried to fix things, they tried to answer the demands of the

protesters. and you keep calling them fascists my question is a, how is this going to end and be do you worry that this democratic legitimacy? missy, that you claim will be forfeited because so much power has been accumulated in the presidency in the executive they've the judiciary doesn't have much say. the legislative doesn't have much opposition representation, nothing meaningful the independent press is sending answered. all of this people say is actually moving towards a dictatorship, not towards a more evolved democracy are you concerned? >> and about forfeiting your democratic legitimacy? >> i mean, look what may concern came up. >> his accusations for 15 years and they crashed against the

reality in the world with 19 elections local, 15 years ensuring so, you know that you won your election, but it's not just elections. >> i'm talking about what happened fans in governance of the accumulation of power, officer election but it's is important to have elections law, kristi, but it's also important what to do after we have a democracy strengthened at all levels you know, why democracy? >> he's so strong and venezuela, because none of those the leaders of these powers, but we are not, we did not belong to the national accompany he's a weapon companies on oil come i'm not a businessman who came here to enrich in a group, economic group, or another, another economic group. i am independent president you asked me how, what will be the next term situation, the victory or the constitution of the people

against those attacks? it is not true that we consider all the opposition has fascist. >> and finally, what keeps you up at night? what worries you? >> yeah a little more. >> thank i assume read peacefully. >> i have no crawlies to get his lieblich trial or really with the wind. and luckily, then go down on key leader. i'm a peace of mind for a total peace of mind. >> you know, you and i'm feeling with the legacy of these marvelous giant feared and i'll give a lot of peace of mind. and i do things with honesty to favor our people. i do not. nothing profit. >> the only one governing me is my conscious, and they've been assailant people. >> well, the claim that maduro does nothing for his own profit may have worked for the new leader in 2014, but now more

than a decade later, maduro own profits and political survival seems to be his only priority amid widespread voter suppression in an internationally disputed election when we come back a bittersweet moment for the refugee olympic team, i speak to former syrian swimmer now commentator yusra mardini the democratic national convention starts monday, august 19 on cnn and streaming on max weeknights today tonight out 360 new reporting to get the full story the will to fight, how important is that? be unafraid, you have reasonable grounds to believe that alleged war crimes have been committed have compassion we'll trauma, what you have been through, seek truth is israel in full control of its territory and go with a search for answers takes you anderson cooper 360 weeknight today on cnn no matter what

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extraordinary story that reached the big screen in the film, the swimmers well now she's reporting on the paris games for eurosport. and i spoke to her about the extra pressure faced by refugee olympians dislike me and the refugee olympic team, there are so many of them that deal with the trauma and pain of abandoning everything, not even being able to go back home for the funerals of their loved ones. >> it is bittersweet feeling, having the refugee olympic team i'm really incredibly proud of what they represent a, what they are doing right now. >> and you can watch the rest of our conversation along with all of the amanpour hour interviews at amanpour.com and that's all we have time for today. don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com slash podcast, and on all other major platforms i'm bianna golodryga in new york. christiane is back next week. thanks so much for watching