as bad as biden personal and policy attacks from the former president as fellow republicans donald trump to stick to the issues plus, we are less than a week away from the start of the dnc where kamala harris looks to mark an exclamation point on her platform plus they're the ones that invaded ukraine in ukraine is defending itself against that aggression. this is russia's war of aggression against ukraine we ukraine sees as hundreds of square miles of russian territory pushing putin's back against the wall. and then certainly when biden was on the ticket, i was going to vote for trump but now it's it's a harder call how voters in a must win swing state are thinking about their choice in november in this reshaped presidential race

capitol on this tuesday morning. good everyone. i'm kasie hunt. it's wonderful to have you with us. >> with just six days until the democratic national convention, donald trump is trying once again to draw attention away from kamala harris last night, the republican nominee joining tech mogul elon musk for a live-streamed, quote, unquote conversation. the owner of the platform, formerly known as twitter, which he renamed x, saying that the event was aimed at quote, independent voters trying to make up their mind we're going to have the largest deportation in history of this country. and we have no choice. one of the things we're going to do is we're going to build an iron dome over as you know, israel has it. we're going to have the best iron dome in the world. i want to close up department of education the start of the limes livestream was delayed by about 40 minutes with moscow originally claiming it was because of a direct attack

against the site. >> later acknowledging some unforced errors on the part of twitter. the harris campaign, taking advantage of the technical issues to repost trump's own mocking of rhonda santas, who experienced similar trouble when he launched his presidential campaign on twitter last year. at the time, trump wrote, quote, wow, the desanctus twitter launch is a disaster. his whole came, whole campaign will be a disaster. >> watch throughout the live streamed conversation, trump seem to be as focused on the man he's no longer running against as he was on his actual opponent. biden's you know close the vegetable stage in my opinion. okay. i looked at him today on the beach and i said, why would anybody allow him? the guy could barely walk. why would anybody allow him? he have a political advisor that think this looks good? >> it's continuing to go after biden has been a running theme for donald trump. and that reality has not gone unnoticed

he's going to walk into the room that he's going to say, i want my presidency back. >> i want another chance to debate trump. i wanted another chance. >> he's not coming we have a camera on him journey has now to discuss laura barrón-lópez, cnn political analyst, white house correspondent for pbs newshour. >> kate bedingfield, cnn political commentator, former biden white house. can indications director and brad todd, republican strategist and partner with the public strategy firm on message welcome to all of you. kate bedingfield used to work for biden. can you confirm he is? >> i cannot come i can confirm he is not going back from me to let his expo it's not happening brad, todd, listening to this conversation the trump had last night with elon musk. >> i mean, it does seem like he doesn't totally know what to do when he can't grab headlines, right? he has been

at the center of the conversation for so long in this sort of shift in attention has been a pretty remarkable, he was all over the place in this conversation with musk last night, is he doing himself any favors? >> it was it was long format conversation so it does lend a little bit too broad waterfront, but he's got to get focused. he has to get focused in it's not hard, right? people are disenchanted with how the biden-harris administration, scott, see how did that you have to add i see you there yep. it's not hard. >> right? you saw border encounters 7.5 million like this is easy spending, disposable income americans there's a lot more disposable income when he was president and they do now, that's where he has to go with the campaign, the economy and the border. that's it. he's got to get focused. >> we could actually probably add you to this. i want to show what some other republicans have been advising donald trump to do. i think you just kind of added your own, your own voice at that. let's watch you've got to make this race not on personalities, stop questioning the size of her crowds and start questioning her position. >> trump doesn't need fees now, he needs votes in the

current rally formula is simply not sufficiently focused on the very stark policy differences policy differences between him and kamala harris that will swing voters in key battleground states don't wander off, don't call her stupid and all kinds of names stay on message the winning formula for president trump is very plain to see its fewer insults, more insights, and that policy contrast there you go. >> so far, he does not seem to be listening. >> he's not at all. i mean, i went to one of his rallies in pennsylvania after harris had jumped in after it was very clear she was going to be the democratic nominee it was very much almost the exact same speech he had given when president biden was in the race just with more personal insults directed at kamala harris and it was right after he started questioning her racial identity. so he's gone from, you know, questioning her racial identity to questioning her crowd sizes, and whether

they're real or not. he's not focused just add all on the things that you say that he and other republicans say that he should be focused on what economy i knew six months being very focused and so that's led him to be ahead in the race. he has to get back to that and there's an old axiom that candidates in the race is about candidates, voters tune out when the rest about voters, voters tune in, he has to make the race about the voters and the consequences once those of kamala harris wanted, but he's never really been capable of doing that. i mean, we're kind of seeing some ways we're seeing the reset to the essence of donald trump, right? like he was running ahead for so long this year that he was sort of able to get away with his trumpiness and now that he's kind of in the back in the spotlight and the pressures on he's sort of back to the worst elements of himself. was easy, right emotionally exact to losing absolutely. and we've never really seen him be able to deliver a concentrated focus message that's about the voters. the other thing i think is interesting just from a tactical standpoint about this x, twitter town hall. he did last night is, you know, they

framed it as oh, well, it's aimed at undecided and voters, there aren't undecided voters for the most part, on x, there aren't. i mean, if you had harris and walz out last week in all of essentially all of the key battleground states, you had donald trump out doing nothing and then sitting for 90 minutes on twitter last night, basically talking to his base. that is not a winning strategy why do you think they weren't better prepared like the campaign wasn't better prepared to run against harris. i mean, this this was looming out there as a possibility even before biden's complete debate collapse. >> well, joe biden said he wasn't getting out you know, and i think the voters had nominated joe biden and i have restate that. they they assumed that that would hold i think the campaign, by the way, the grep blocking and tackling things that campaign has to do have, have continued to pace and if you look at the message that comes out of this campaign office every day, it's, it's exactly what it should be. problem is former president donald trump has to focus his message when he's in front of the camera and he's a big, big part of how the campaign

communicates. he's got to tighten it up and he's got to focus on what the voters would get if kamala harris wins. >> laura, one of the things that we're kind of seeing in the background and i'm sort of interested in this because there was a poll yesterday from the financial times that showed that harris maybe making some inroads on the economy, in particular, because that is something that donald trump historically has been given credit for from voters and it's been a place where they say they trust him more on that. what do you think she needs to do? trump on this livestream criticized her for this taxes on tips policy that he in fairness, rolled out. she said she supported it in las vegas. we haven't seen we're expecting to see a more fulsome economic plan from her later this week. but how much of a risk is, what's the risk? the benefit calculation for her on economic issues right now, i think on one hand, she's going to clearly run on the stuff that she and president biden did because the thing i mean, issue though, because think she is because the thing like, you know, capping insulin at $35 and the infrastructure and the

jobs that have come with the infrastructure act, she is going to run on those things and democrats were running on those things and they saw success down-ballot, democrats saw success with that, they always said the democrats were working on campaigns down-ballot. always would say to me, it's the messenger, not the message that is the problem. and they saw president biden is the issue. now they have a new messenger at the top of the ticket with kamala harris, who they think is much more effective, but she is going to have to differentiate kate herself in little ways. it's going to be the taxes on tips we're going to see more some policy platform stuff from her, but she is going to still run on a decent amount of their record together. >> that sound good to you. >> i think that'd be great yeah. we know what comer should do. his presence. she told us when she ran in 2020, she said she would ban fracking. she said she was sympathetic to defund police movement. she said she decriminalized border crossing. there's a lot of things on her record that we know what she needs to show. she would do if she wins. i think one challenge for former president trump though, is that he always likes to compare

leadership styles and leadership characteristics more than the likes, ideology, ideology is never really been his thing. he's not an ideologue but this is now a campaign about ideology. if he's going to win, he has to paint her as the most extreme candidate for president ever. that's his path. >> but i think that's just not going to that's not going to hold it mean to laura's point, we i can tell you from my time at the white house, we saw time and again that the economic policies so biden was able to implement and was running on, we're incredibly popular. it had bipartisan support and a lot of cases, you know, his argument we took on pharma like tests off the charts. i mean, people love it. so removing the drag that his personal, his age and the personal concerns that people had about him but it does open up a huge lane of opportunity for criminal harris to talk about the things she's been able to do. and talk about it in a way that's about, you know, supporting the middle-class, supporting working people. i think you're going to see her continue to do that. she has a huge a huge message lane here and i would expect that she will run in it. well, we're going to see a lot of that. we're going to see how they're going to do it at the the anc coming up next week.

all right. coming up here on cnn this morning, he probe into the attempted hacking of donald trump's campaign. and one of his operatives as the former president, points the finger at iran. we're going to speak with former trump defense secretary mark esper plus donald trump's comparison of kamala harris is time magazine cover to his wife, melania? yes, that's an actual ties. and the countdown to the dnc begins where kamala harris will formally accept the democratic nomination. will we see future stars seizing a moment on the party's biggest stage? >> it's like to slice and dice our country. in red states and blue states. red states for republicans who state for democrats. but i've got news for them to, we worship an awesome god in the blue states this fall comedy is coming to cnn what could go wrong i got

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harris, expected to speak on thursday, the tentative speaker schedule, according to nbc news, it will include remarks from president biden, hillary and bill clinton and former president obama chicago is, of course, the harris-walz is tickets biggest opportunity to define their platform before a national audience and contrast harris with donald trump. a contrast that back at the 2020 convention sounded like this i took on the biggest banks and helped take down one of the biggest for profit colleges >> what do you expect? i mean, i know republicans are priming everyone for even more polling bumps after the democratic national convention because it's going to be a week of celebrating democrats. but as we've learned from the republican convention, you know, these things, they were riding high then and look

what's happened since so it can kind of fade in the end. >> yeah, let me races are always fluid yeah, i think if we've learned anything over the last month, that's that things change and races or fluid. >> no question about it, but she does have a really terrific opportunity here. she's coming off of this incredible a couple of weeks stretch where she has been really out barn storming. we've seen are kinda delivering what i think is going to be the guts of her her stump speech for the next three months in these battleground states. now, she has an opportunity to do that on a big national tv platform. before big national audience. so i think i would expect that the democrats will use this opportunity to keep defining the contrast on trump, of course, because that is a key piece of their strategy here to remind people how unpalatable trump is which trump is helping to be affirmative to put this joy and energy on display that she's been doing so effectively in the swing

states. so i would expect that democrats will come out of this weak feeling encouraged field playing in emboldened. and then the task coming out of the campaign is that sliver of undecided voters for the last three months of this race. >> liver indeed, laura, i mean, one thing that is going to be harder to control. i mean, democrats can obviously control most of what goes on on the stage. but what's going on outside if we think back to this? convention was in chicago in 1968. we can show a little bit of that, like what, what went on outside of the 1968 convention and the protests that marked that obviously it was a different time in american history, a very volatile one. but these were, this was what defined that i think had biden still be in the nominee. it's likely that the protest we are likely to see outside this year's chicago convention would have been very much the central focus because we do anticipate thousands of pro-palestinian protesters outside. it's something they've been very concerned about. how

do you think that plays with harris on the stage? and do you think they're campaign is prepared for? i've sort of started to ask this question of the new kind of harris folks that have come in like, this is something that they can't control. they're going to have to deal with it. they're going to be asked questions about it in chicago next week, are they ready? >> i don't know if they're ready. i mean, we saw recently when there were protesters at one of her events that the uncommitted movement didn't exactly like her response, which was to say that if you want donald trump to win, then just say it. that was her response to them when they were heckling about and protesting about gaza and what i will will say is that leaders of the uncommitted movement have said that generally they think that harris has taken a much more empathetic tone and that they feel as though she has been much more willing to talk to them and engage with them that being said, she's not really trying to make herself entirely different from president biden. she is still trying to help him come to a ceasefire. they're

and still standing with him. when when you talk about his core position, when it comes to israel, hamas war i think it's the most important to think about the convention next week and it's a big opportunity for vice president harris to take, if she will. the thing swing voters fear about her, like they feared about biden who said they'd go to she go too far left. sure. give she would not put any brakes on her her progressivism. she needs to take a flatbed trailer and a bullhorn and go straight up to those protests and say get on board with the president and me and israel, or get out of our parties. she needs to be very strong as she needs to dare those protesters to leave because it'd be a moment of strength for her. it would communicate in fact, sheet is willing to stand up to the far left. i don't know if she's got the guts to do it, but that's the most important thing she could do. >> think she needs to say get out of our party. i mean, the point here is try to build as broad a coalition as possible. but i think you did see in her initial reaction to those protesters that laura was talking about, you saw a real confidence. i mean, you saw her saying, you know, i'm speaking

and if you want donald trump to win, then just say that. i mean, she had no problem being very direct. i don't think i don't think the expectation should be and i don't think it'd be smart for her to spend her time at the convention attacking these people who fundamentally, broadly speaking, share her goal but it will start getting come off symbols outside the convention, the way they did outside union station. hear it took her for day to respond to that. well but i would just say i mean, remember this was as this was i think maybe what the day after or two days after she had assumed the mantle. >> so, you know, there was a lot going on, but i don't i mean, there was a lot happening and she did very forcefully when it came to cry that j.d. >> vance got up in his speech and basically declared war on wall street it's something you don't see republicans do at conventions. i think she needs to get up and declare war on the anti-war protesters it would send a stronger signal that she can push back on the far-left than anything else she could do? >> yes. we'll see. all right. still. ahead here on cnn this morning, firefighters in greece are battling a huge wildfire. we're going to bring you the latest on that deadly players. and i'm found fire crews have

gained an upper hand plus voters in the key swing state of pennsylvania way in on the new state of the race with kamala harris atop the democratic ticket the democratic national convention monday at seven on cnn, and streaming on back. sure, i'm a paid at during this, isn't a real company, but there's no way to fake up where it can help your business so it's challenged all over the world with over 10,000 skills, you may not happen house more than 30% of the fortune 500 us upwork because this is how we work now a us bank, when we say we're in it with you, we mean it not just for the good stuff. >> the grand opening celebrations but for all the hard work it took to get there. >> we are in for all of it it's tough for sure, but less tough when you have the right people by your side. hi, kayla from kansas city. and thousands of other bankers around the

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might do this. there's the answer the show, let's go on. >> we have a bit of an earthquake here in los angeles. so we're just going to make sure that our studio lights, everything stays safe, everything shakes, show must go on a 4.4 magnitude earthquake in los angeles, caught live on espn during a broadcast, i have to say it was very impressed with her composure in this moment, there were no reports of injuries or structural damage the situation in greece is improving after a wildfire scorched more than 150 square miles outside of athens, at least one person has died all right. coming up here on cnn this morning, donald trump blaming iran for attempting to hack his campaign this summer as the investigation into the attempted hacking unfolds, we're going to talk with mark esper, the former defense secretary and now the kamala harris is on the ticket, will pennsylvania voters turned away from trump when to trade

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big way celebrity iou, all new monday night at nine on hdtv and i know president xi, i know kim jong un of north korea. >> i know every one of and let me tell you. people all say oh, this is terrible. he said, i'm not saying anything good or bad there at the top of their game they're tough. they're smart they are vicious. and they're going to protect their country, whether they love their country, they probably do. it's just a different form of love, but they've got to protect their country that was donald trump last night sharing his view of some of the world's most dangerous dictators. >> that was with you on mosques, on x any of those leaders, of course, could be trying to interfere with the u.s. election. the former president's team is blaming iran for hacking their campaign in june. according to multiple sources, the hackers compromise the personal email account of longtime trump operative, roger stone it's stealing sensitive documents from the campaign a

source telling cnn overnight that in june, the fbi briefed the venn biden-harris campaign on iranian efforts to hack them as well. let's bring in cnn political commentator, former trump defense secretary mark esper. mr. secretary. thank you so much for being here. >> morning kasie. >> can you talk to us a little bit about this hacking attempt? i mean, we know that it was successful in the case of the trump situation, it seems as though it was not in the case of biden-harris but clearly, there are adversaries out there who are trying to influence our elections. do you buy this explanation that it was the iranians? what are you looking for here? >> yeah, look, i think it's very possible that it is the iranians, if you step back a little bit, we look at over the years, multiple briefings, for example, by the intelligence community to congress, where they said there has been foreign state attempts to either a interfere or be

influence us elections. and it's more often the latter they try and influence cause social discord, et cetera, in our elections. and the principal players have been russia, a number one. this year. secondly, iran and then a distant third, china. and then there are others. north korea is in there. a lot of other countries trying to sow discord or influence our elections it's completely feasible, but it is iran behind this. iran does not want trump to get back into office at a very bad experience with him during that time. of course, it was the ending of the nuclear cord. and then finally at the end of the administration, that killing of a qassem soleimani so they do not want trump back in office that's for sure. so it could be it could be him, but we again know that others are trying to sow discord as well so i take your point on iran. >> if you look across the map at other potential nefarious actors in this obviously been a lot of conversations about the russians and their potential

involvement. there almost seems to be an inclination toward trump from the russians. do you think that still holds? i mean, how do you look at them? and some of the other dictators that trump praised there last night with elon musk yeah, the russians are probably the biggest player out there. they have the largest operation. it's more, agile, more depth than the iranians are. and they have been trying to sow discord going all the way back to elections, right? so, you know, it gets a little bit less clear, but one might argue that yes, they be more inclined to have for sure trump in office because trump has said that he was does not support ukraine, that he is challenged nato and other things. so one might say that they favor him more than the other xi jinping and china. again, a little bit more unclear, although trump has promised to levy across the board tariffs and upwards of 65% cent tariff on chinese goods coming into the country. so again, these are probably the three principal actors. north korea is in there as well

and all these are trying to, again, not interfere as much. it's very hard to interfere in the united states elections. but influence some by sowing discord through misinformation, disinformation, just starting think things up is what they're aiming to do sir, while i have you, i also want to ask you about what's going on in israel also with iran, because we've been sort of waiting with bated breath for a response to the killing of the hamas political leader. >> and it's still has not come and we did learn that hamas is going to go back to the negotiating table our around a ceasefire and a hostage deal in gaza, as we're still waiting here and we've sent a nuclear submarine to the region, of course very rare that we would announce that we are doing that at why do you think it has stretched this long? and what are you looking for next? >> yeah, i'm a little surprised. its last as long as well, iran likes to strike back within a matter of days. i'm still convinced they will strike back at some point. so it's not a question of whether

it's more when and how but clearly, what's happening here too, is you have these negotiations. number one, number two, we know iran hezbollah do not want a wider regional war, and i suspect that iran is trying to figure out what is the right tactic to respond to the killing of ishmael haniah in late july in tehran. how did they respond so that they maintain their credibility with their proxies and also retaliate against the embarrassment. i think we've all believed that it will be a massive type of drone and missile attack. but again, that risks a wider war. there has been some reporting that maybe they will try to pursue an intelligence operation would meet, which means maybe they tried to kill israeli official somewhere outside of the region are attack and embassy or something like that. >> but i think it now at this point, pivots on these upcoming talks in two days on thursday between hamas and israel. >> and can they get a deal? you can they being really hamas get

a deal that satisfies the demands? of at this point in time. the new, both military leader, i'm sorry, the new leader of gaza and the new political leader who replaced a neo, which is yahya sinwar, who is very tough. he's a hardened warrior who wants to keep this fight going on. but he's close to iran. so will he wanted to pursue this? will he strike, try and strike a deal? and of course the question is, does bibi netanyahu want to strike a deal as well all right. >> former defense secretary mark esper for us this morning, sir. very grateful for your time. thank you so much thanks, kasie. all right. let's turn back now to the presidential race. >> the road to 1,600 pennsylvania will more than likely fact, it definitely goes through pennsylvania yes, it is a must-win state, a critical piece of the blue wall. if you're a democrat, cnn's john king went to talk to suburban voters there to see how the really historic events of the last few weeks have impacted what they're thinking about. here's a little taste of what he learned i'm not excited

about voting for kamala harris, but it's better than the alternative. >> senator vance, are you going to tell and colder or condoleezza rice or elizabeth dole, they are miserable cat ladies. i don't, i don't think so. >> when biden was on the ticket, i was going to vote for trump. but now it's it's it's a harder call just because i am not a fan of donald trump. and what are your goals for this job if you get the job? and that's what i want to hear from kamala harris. >> so first of all, interesting that she pronounced camilla's named the way donald trump pronounce his name, which is incorrectly camila anyway, brad todd, can you i always love hearing directly from these voters. i'm actually from the suburban philadelphia area. it's a place i know really well. i know you're working on this senate raised there. i mean, what do you know? what have you learned about how the switch at the top of the democratic ticket has changed the state of play there i think actually kamala harris is a weaker candidate than joe biden was in pennsylvania. >> you know, joe biden always

bragged about being pennsylvania's third senator. he was from scranton, being from wilmington, delaware. he was always on tv and philadelphia. he visited there all the time. that's president. i think she's actually worse. i think if i take your point, if it's a younger joe biden, but the difference between joe biden as voters, we're seeing him and kamala harris. >> i mean, there's a group of older voters that biden persistent lee held onto that he wasn't holding onto another states though and it was just doing your thing though, yeartie yes. >> i think they'll don't. trump does have to prosecute the campaign in pennsylvania and it comes down to farming fracking crime. philadelphia's the dead most dangerous major city in the country. there are 330,000 people in pennsylvania whose jobs depend on fracking. he has to go after those issues and painter as an extremist it's on those issues too, when it is true that biden was able to do better with white working class voters. a more rural white voters in pennsylvania than other democrats have. that's certainly true. and he brad said he certainly had that connection but he also ultimately won pennsylvania apart with margins in philadelphia, with margins with

voters of color or black voters in philly. and obviously i think kamala harris has a message that thus far we see is resonating as we watch, as we see some of this polling over the last week and it just in the siena poll, you see black voters starting to come home. and in some of these swing states where biden has been struggling so i think there's definitely a path for her here to rebuild that winning coalition. but no question, pennsylvania is going to be absolutely huge. i would expect to see her there are lots making the case and it is going it's absolutely going to be probably decisive at the end of the day. >> you know, one more thing is visibly is moving rights slowly, but it's been moving right for 20 years that registration difference between republicans and democrats it down to almost 300,000 people it was 600,004 years ago in the last race, the state's creeping ever rightward, so it's a little tougher hill for coming on. >> omni was running. it was kind of a pipe dream, but it's also, as you listen to these voters, right? >> they don't view donald trump as an acceptable standard bearer of conservatism. i mean, that's the big issue, right? >> i think that's the thing. i think a lot of these more

double haters or middle of the road voters who maybe weren't totally sold on biden are now moving over to kamala harris because they see someone that's younger. they didn't like the fact that it was the same two candidates running against each other. we heard that time and time again whenever i sat in on focus groups or talked to voters and now they see something different and they also like the vp candidate that she picked. so that's something that is opening up some voters for her. she's also bringing home the base in a way that biden wasn't. so that could very well booster, as you i mentioned, the voters in philadelphia and a state like pennsylvania, when the most interesting thing i heard in that voter match was the woman who said, why don't like trump. but obviously it was going to vote for him if it was against biden, right that she kamala harris has an opening with those people that biden this close that was closed to joe biden. alright. more to come here on cnn this morning. canada vice presidential candidate make or break a presidential ticket? we're going to talk with presidential historian doris kearns goodwin plus donald trump spent much of

his time talking to elon musk, bashing his opponent but there was one comment about time magazine's latest cover, that caught some people off guard kamala wouldn't have this conversation. >> she can't because he's not he's not a smart person and biden, we don't even have to talk about it. i mean, he couldn't have this conversation cnn is live from chicago as democrats unite to offer their support to a new nominee and her running mate fellow cnn for complete coverage the democratic national convention monday at seven on cnn and streaming on back choice hotels is a family of brands were the hotel for any traveler you want to be like number one chef, dad, cook it up a free hot breakfast for the entire family and a comfort holds so mom made i added the garnish stay twice and get a $50 gift card when you booked direct what would you like to pay for your hotel room tonight? >> 185, 169 or $155?

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york, judge ruling against robert f. kennedy junior's attempts to get on the ballot in that state in a ruling monday, the judge found rfk junior used a sham new york address on a ballot access petition the independent presidential nominee lives in california. kennedy's campaign plans to appeal the ruling arizona will have the chance to vote on abortion access this november, the proposed constitutional amendment would establish a fundamental right to abortion up to 22 to 24 weeks by ability. the state currently has a 15 week limit all right. turning back now to this i calmly with a texan and a son of massachusetts running on the ticket, all the oldest party. but in a tense, the youngest party we asked your help on this campaign that was jfk in 1960. >> the only time in history where most people agree that a vice presidential pick mattered

enough to propel a president that into the white house. next week, minnesota governor tim walz will make his major national debut at the convention as kamala harris as vp pick and his first solo campaign event is today. while both walls and trump's vp pick j.d. vance have been generating plenty of headlines. historians dispute how influential these vp picks actually are. when they do make a difference, it is sometimes when they do harm they say the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull lipstick all right, joining me now is presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. she is the author of the new york times bestseller, an unfinished love story, a personal history of the 60s. doris, i am so grateful to have you here. thank you so much for being here. i how does history typically view these vice presidential selections? obviously something well, them go on to become president and that historically makes a big difference. but again, we kind

of had to go back to 1960 to find an example where it really mattered you, you're, so right, kasie, i mean, most of history, i think there were viewed as non-important. i mean, john adams, good old john adams said it was the most insignificant office in the history of man but it becomes significant just as you suggest, that's not a great resume, for a, vice president, right? but 15 of the 45, 46 presidents have become president, either by the resignation or the, or the death, or they win the election in their own right. so that's almost one third. so that makes it really important. but in the old days when the political bosses were choosing the candidates and the vice president's because we didn't and have the primary system, they really would just choosing them to balance the ticket. so the candidate they wanted for the nomination for the president would have somebody that he needed to win another state so for example, when rutherford b. hayes from ohio was chosen as the nominee, they chose william wheeler of new york to balance him. and he said, i'm ashamed to say

don't even know who william wheeler is that just showed how insignificant it seemed to be in that kind? and then when teddy roosevelt was made to be vice president, because they wanted him out of new york because he was too progressive in new york and he felt he couldn't turn it down because he would look like he was too snobby. he hated every minute of it. he said, i'm so bored, i'm going back to law school i need something meaningful to do. and even lyndon johnson felt it was the most miserable time of his life that he had been such a powerful majority leader. and now he was shriveling up day by day it was really not until good old carter brought mondale in and gave him an office in the west wing, as you can imagine, kasie, that matters. everything thanks. you're in the west wing, you're right in the center of power. you can hobnobbed with the people there. you're not over in the east wing, you're not over in the executive office building. and then that changed and mondale became an important vice president. gore, was it important vice president. cheney was an important vice president. and now i suspect that it's not only that walz might help her win but that

he's going to be a person who will have real responsibilities once he gets in there. >> what was going to say with both biden and harris? we have two people that understand kind of the chantler unique challenges and frustrations of that job as you just outlined, i mean, how do you think that impacts things? >> i think it probably made a big difference for kamala harris because whatever frustrations or pleasure she had in the vice presidency, she knew that she was right there and she knows what the role is, what she hopes it was for herself and she can make it such. i think for for tim walz and i think she realized she wanted somebody she could work with the presidency is a huge function. we wonder why it is that all the president's get gray by the end, they looked much older than they were in the beginning. it's such an impossible job if you have somebody who can really be your partner, i know the first rule is when choose the guy or the woman who is going to help you when and a win. and what's the point of having? then you can have some great partner there that you can be happy with day-by-day and i think in a

certain sense what walz was able to do was it's not so much that he's bringing the blue state of minnesota, but those rural counties in those small towns from which he comes, they're all over the midwest. and so if he can really appeal to them as a football coach and a somebody who was a high school teacher and a social he'll studies teacher after, after all, good old history comes in there. and then he was a military veteran. he's got a different he's not an eastern elite kind of person in fact, neither one of them are ivy league people and that somehow we've had that for such a long period of time that maybe people will feel this is more of a of a ticket that has a working class background to it. and that's the people that they need to win over, especially i quite frankly, in places like western pennsylvania, which is going to be the whole ballgame. >> doris kearns goodwin. i'm so grateful to have you. thank you so much for being with us this morning. i hope you come back soon. >> i would gladly. so thank you, kasie. >> see you soon. >> all right. let's turn now to this more from donald trump's conversation with elon musk, one point, trump decided to

weigh in on this time magazine's recent feature, and specifically the cover artwork that pictured his opponent, kamala harris he is terrible. >> terrible, but he's getting a free ride on time magazine today. she looks like the most beautiful actress ever to live. i was drawing and actually, she looked very much like a great first lady, melania she looked, didn't look look like camilla. that's right. but of course she is a beautiful woman, so we'll leave it at that right okay, that's another pronunciation of her name. >> camila guys what fair it is. >> this is kamala harris beautifully drawn on the cover of time magazine. it looks like her, it looks like kamala harris does it look like melania trump i think he was trying to say there were both beautiful and he's wasting time though but does have a

fair point that that vice president harris is getting the greatest media honeymoon ever known. >> a presidential politics. and i think that was his core complaint there that cover i start i mean look, i'm not like i'm afraid to try to psychoanalyze what donald trump is doing care, who knows? i don't know. i mean, i think he does kind of seem like he was trying to say it was like an overly flattering drawing of her i don't know, but one thing that is not going to do is help him win suburban voters, swing voters. >> i mean, he's to brad's point here. there are only so many days left in this election and he's spending them, you know, sort of rambling nonsense rather than making a case. if that's what he did with time magazine as well from that earlier, kasie why they weren't prepared. >> i think one thing was that republicans that i talked to expected democrats to fight to have a big fight about who the person to replace biden would be and they did not think that people would coalesce around harris as much as they did. and

so you're seeing that he's just struggling with trying to find his footing against her because they didn't expect to be facing someone who had all of the support of the party behind her on that note. let's turn to this. i'll leave you with this beyonce, just one of the many names who's breaking through on former president obama's annual summer playlist, the 44th president dropped his list this week listing 44 songs. naturally, another name on the lineup, charli xcx yeah, 3-6 you could argue both of those names are also on the playlist of current democratic presidential nominee kamala harris. >> harris getting basically an endorsement from charli xcx when the popstar tweeted out kamala is brat she also made beyonce song, freedom, a centerpiece of her campaign. going back to her first appearance at the campaign

headquarters in delaware also of course, has his own unique playlist as well the music i like obama's lists, right? he does music, he does books every year. i usually try to go through and find one or the other to look at. you guys, have any reading recommendations for the summer her or song. i mean, maybe let's not to playlist, let's do books. anyone read anything good lately britain cormac mccarthy's the passenger oh, that's a good one. i read the ministry of time on obama's list. >> i have to say i wouldn't i was on my favorite. yeah. but i read the bees sting and it was activating, captivating, not that comforting, but captivated all right. >> sounds good. thanks to our panel. thanks to all of you for joining us. i'm kasie hunt don't go anywhere. cnn new central starts right now