but it's under siege from big out-of-state media companies and hedge funds. now, california legislators are considering a bill that could make things even worse by subsidizing national and global media corporations while reducing the web traffic local papers rely on. so tell lawmakers, support local journalism, not well connected media companies. oppose ab 886. paid for by ccia. liquid ladder grabbed liquid labs in the walmart vitamin aisle today, laura coates live

next on cnn close captioning brought to you by rula law, iconic brands up to 70% off retail had rula law.com rubella you never faithful sees the deals on top before their shot today two. presidents and a vice president take their message to the people, but isn't personal attacks that the voters want. plus five people are charged over the death of matthew perry, including someone referred to as the ketamine queen. we're going to look at the rise and the dangers of the drug that killed him and is an nfl return for colin kaepernick in the works, is former coach says it's possible, but it may not be in the position you'd expect welcome to laura coates live. >> i'm audie cornish in for laura tonight, and we're going

to talk about this inflection point for the two presidential campaigns kamala harris shares the stage with the person she replaced at the top of the democratic ticket. gop nominee donald trump breaks out the binders as he tries to talk policy while behind the scenes tries to shake up his campaign is republican allies have been all but begging him to ditch the insults and go after harris on the issues. and at first glance, it looked like he may have gotten the message. there he was with his table full of grocery props and eggs and cheerios and forget a teleprompter. he had a binder and actually look down to read it pitching to voters is planned to double down on tariffs and eliminate taxes on social security benefits where it felt like vintage trump was when he veered into false claims exaggerations, an insult or two for good measure here's how he responded when cnn's alayna treene asked him about allies urging him to stop personally attacking harris i think i'm entitled to personal

attacks. >> i don't have a lot of respect for i don't have a lot of respect for her intelligence and i think she'll be a terrible precedent. i mean, she's certainly attacks me personally. she actually called me weird. he is weird. it was just a sound bite. and she called jd and i weird. what's the last name of kamala nobody knew it's harris nobody knew the last name i don't even use it because nobody knows who i'm talking about none of that surprise the harris team even before trump's remarks, her campaign put out a statement before he stepped onstage preemptively slamming it as quote, another public meltdown now, the vice president has her own tight rope to walk, appearing with president biden for the first time since he dropped out of the race. >> and it's a crucial moment for her right before she delivers a speech outlining her own economic vision. and that's happening tomorrow. but this may have been a taste of how she plans to campaign with biden and his record there's a

lot of love this. >> president and i think it's for many, many reasons, including few leaders in our nation have done more on so many issues, including to expand access to affordable health care like vengeful folks i've been incredible partner the progress we've made she's going to make one hell of a president so president biden showed he doesn't have much to lose on the campaign trail anyway, freely taking a few digs at trump the guy we're running against, his name donald dumped or donald let me tell you what our project, 2025 is baked to hell out of them

joining me now, senior political correspondent for the wall street journal, molly ball, former senior communications adviser to senator tim scott's presidential campaign. >> matt gorman. and cnn contributor and new york times reporter and podcast or lulu garcia navarro, welcome to all of you so a binder that would make mitt romney proud. i think he has been prepped for that. i know it's silly to poke front of it, but it is remarkable because he is a person who believes himself to be great off the cuff, right? can give these like long stem winding speeches and he made this crack this week about being asked to give intellectual speeches by his campaign. so what did you think of that attempt today? >> i mean, look, it's probably as good as you're going to get when it comes to kind of stick into pure policy from from trump i mean, that's just a fact that it was firstly like pure policy. >> well, the first eight to ten minutes we're pretty on the ball and then he asked two questions here and there. >> but that's probably as good

as you're going to get if you're a republican, whether it's kevin mccarthy, vivek ramaswamy, swami, nikki haley recently who've been the ones really pushing a lot of this advice on trump, if you will, at the end of the day, he's 78-years-old and now he's not going to change, especially now with some of these changes in his campaign, especially folks from past campaigns who are more likely, i think too probably enable that, let trump be trump side. >> lulu, i was about to say that i think they should let trump be trump. i mean, the fact is that, this is a man who is of a certain age and he is able to connect with people which saw recent poll that saw him actually his favorability ratings going up to 42% in the pupil from 38% people like trump, who like trump, people who don't like trump don't like trump for trying to make him sit there for and read a binder. it sounded like the worst sort of high school presentation that you could get. it wasn't the kind of trump that people buy into. so

i think the advice is misplaced, but you can't win an election with 42%. and so in order to win the election, he has to in some way get the votes of people who don't like him and so i think the purpose of this advice, i you know, i understand that trump doesn't necessarily believe in the professional political advice he's always disregarded that in his career and he thinks he wins when he fights. but the reason for this strategic advice is that he can't win unless he gets some of the votes of people who don't already like him some people beyond his base. and the thought is that the way he's most likely to get them, particularly considering how unpopular this administration and its policies are, is by making the case on. >> let me jump in because i think it's interesting that you're making this point as the trump camp expands with some new hires bringing back some folks from 2016, like corey lewandowsky, for example, who was the original campaign manager. can you just briefly talk about if that is a significant moment and people have also talked about kellyanne conway maybe coming

back. >> what is this? >> sign of panic, is it just a perennial trump firing and shake-up like what are we looking at? well, i don't think we know yet exactly what what else he might do in terms of shaking up the campaign if this is a preliminary round or if this is all he plans to do. but according going to ask, you, literally wrote a book called let trump be trump two match points. so this it is definitely him going back to the type of advisers who are going to indulge his sort of base, basest instincts, if you will and not try to rein him in, not try to get him to be more disciplined, especially since he thinks he's entitled to it. i think that's doesn't help, you know, there was a moment where that's stuck out to me where he's trying to attack the democrats, clean energy policies. and in the process, it kind of goes in a very trumpian direction. >> you got windmills all over the place and you have burj. you want to see a bird cemetery, just go under a

windmill. you see thousands of birds dead the bald eagle. if you kill an eagle they put you in jail for years. and yet these windmills not come out like nothing and nothing happens to the people i don't know what to do with that. like helped me out lengthy diatribe against electric vehicles. you've got to think elon musk is like can i jump it's just actually a reflection of how this tricky walk of being economic populist, right? >> the j.d. vance was supposed to bring this kind of like ideology and policy together. but trump has really never been the policy guy. >> i think it's a couple of things. number one, the simplest explanation is he needs a crowd. he's better with a crowd that's reacting to his, his rifts and laughing, we were laughing right here talking about burden cemeteries that he needs a crowd to kind of play off. it's like when you hear a comedian and silence a

little bit, i think that's number one. number two, i wouldn't go that deep on it. i think he needs a little bit of a crowd and you're right when he when he came on the scene and 16 area, when he when he was kind of saber rattling a run in 12 he has certain themes. china and trade especially are ones that he really can care about taxes, where he gets in the weeds on some of these other things he'll know just enough to be dangerous and fluid enough on it. but he won't want he won't want to go in the weeds. >> but it means he is vulnerable to the harris-walz campaign who can pluck out the lines like this, or i think about hannibal lecter joke or something about sharks like it makes you vulnerable in this scenario. and a very edit, clickable internet election vulnerable. >> what i would push back on his vulnerable, how is i want to meet the person who's going to thinking about trump and not going to vote for him because of the hannibal lecter reference, or a reference, i think it's a little deeper. >> okay. i want to turn to harris because people have been saying, when are they going to roll out her economic vision? will it look different from the

biden campaign? and we have heard some things right? she's bringing up a federal ban on price gouging joining a four-year plan to lower housing costs. first-time homebuyers would actually get a tax credit under a harris proposal and wishing for the construction of 3 million new homes is this as detailed, is people wanted it does this kind of answer the concern that she was not putting out enough? >> i think it depends where you're coming from. right? i think from the point of view, i think especially of a lot of economic experts. this is all kind of gimmicky and likely to be counterproductive actually rather than bringing down inflation, things like price controls and homebuying incentives are only likely to push prices further up or make the problem worse. on the other hand, xi is offering details. she is offering actual plans, which for all that, the trump campaign has been pushing this

theme of where, what does she actually offering? where are the specifics? he hasn't been giving a lot of detailed plans either. right so different friday saying like at least there's the reduction act or yeah, these are biden's plans. >> i mean, these are very progressive plans. the idea of greedflation. this is the idea that what she's trying to propose here is that it was, you know, all these companies that were during the pandemic really driving up prices when there were all these problems and taking king advantage of the consumer, that is very common progressive idea that has been championed by a lot of people. and so these aren't new ideas that she's pushing out here. these are ideas that are pretty common on the left. now, whether you agree with him or you not, that that's a subject of a lot of debates are actually economist who might agree with her. so i don't know that it's exactly that the problem that she has is the more specific she gives, the more people can come out and say, no, we don't like it. no, it's wrong. nobody. that point. i mean, just because

it's a truncated campaign, doesn't mean you're not going to be no, i agree that xi has to do it, but the bigger problem for her now is that she has been riding this wave and i think we're about to see that wave crest and coming down. >> i think you're exactly right as long as she doesn't give specifics, people can sort of see whatever they wanted. her campaign can say, oh, she's going to pivot to the center, but, when the rubber hits the road, we see that actually she's proposing these quite progressive ideas and she really is positioning herself on the left side of the part. >> one more thing. i love talking policy, but it's hard to ignore the fact that everything is personal this group of people you had trump kind of seeming a little bit upset about being called weird like he keeps coming back to it and in the meantime you had president biden come out and actually sort of take a crack at this, so to speak, using the term donald dump, were long from the era of michelle obama's when they go low. >> but where are we?

>> it's a good trajectory. >> is modern politics, right? i mean, even provide the when he did manage to string a sentence together in that debate, biden spent the whole time calling trump a sucker and a loser. so it's not exactly new for him to be doing name calling you. >> and i remember i worked for mitt romney. he was going to mitt romney's going to put people back in chains according to joe biden, to like, again, this predates, i think the trump era to any history and start in 2015 for joe biden started no, i'm standing. >> you can see trump and it bothers him. i mean, you saw with him talking about the weird thing, it been sam and you know that when things buggs the opponent, you're going to lean in. >> i'm still shocked that there's not a real nickname for kamala harris. there's this constant talking point of butchering the pronunciation of her name. there is still a way of trying to take her name away from her, but does it say something that trump's old playbook that he used on his republican challengers or whoever like, he just doesn't have the juice for that here. >> i don't know. i don't think

about it that in-depth will be completely honest with you. but look, i think it's one of those things where it's less about a nickname and more about a brand. i think republicans need to figure out how we brander i think as we saw from joe biden's research and books written about 20:20 campaign, the flip-floppers product the most productive one, but we'll see what they come up with. >> all alright, stay with us because we're going to talk more. thank you, everybody because president biden is actually beginning a farewell tour of sorts, like the crowds are chanting his name during his appearance with kamala harris we want to talk about what his role could be with her campaign going forward. we're going to do that with joe biden's biographer. >> that's next here we are driving down the road and all of a sudden there was a crack in our windshield. >> what we can do now though, right like.com and we're good to go. >> oh, yes. i'll be replaced in the windshield for you. >> can we go in there with you? new cars come with cameras that control your automatic braking systems and lane departure,

which do needs to get recalibrated when you get your windshield replaced you're get a crack in your windshield. there's only one choice, save flight route say might replace like we played perry's. have you tried these new fabrice carbon clips the new intensely delicate you total control i can turn it up that smells good or turn it down nice and light. >> enjoy 40 days of freshness your way she grew up in a middle-class home. she was the daughter of a working mom and she worked at mcdonald's while she got her degree. kamala harris knows what it's like to be middle-class it's why she's determined to lower we're health care costs and make housing more affordable donald trump has no plan to help the middle-class. just more tax cuts for billionaires been president it's about who you fight for and she's fighting for people like you and kamala harris. >> and i approve this message this wants to get back to

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1877 it sucks six at 5:55 i'm trying to get up. >> actually in doha, qatar is cnn we take them next. >> step. thank you, joe those cheers mark the start of the long goodbye from voters to president biden for the first time since dropping his bid for reelection, the president was side-by-side with vice president kamala harris at a

campaign rally, harris hugged her boss then biden took the money i spoke for some 20 minutes doing exactly what he had been doing before his vp vaulted to the top of the ticket, vowing to do everything he could to beat donald trump you may have heard about the maga republican project 2025 plan let me tell you, what our project 2025 is. >> beat the hell out of him so we are watching in real real-time the burnishing of biden's legacy, a 50 year political career with this chapter, at least ending in a single term presidency here to discuss biographer chris whipple, he's the author of a great book. >> it's called the fight of his life inside joe biden's white house, chris, that is an evergreen title. this point good to be with you had no idea how apt it would be? yeah. yeah. i was just talking about

burnishing the legacy and we'll get to that moment. >> can i just get your reaction to what it was like seeing biden out there being as you called it kind of the way man to kamala harris? >> yeah. i thought they were really effective today. i mean, where was that? joe biden, three weeks ago they weren't it wasn't fred astaire and ginger rogers, but they sure did not put a false foot forward and suggest, think about what how far joe biden has come in the last few weeks i mean, here's a guy who stepped away reluctantly from a second term as president, or at least at the possibility of it practically at gunpoint and here he is a short time later, acting as the gracious wing man for kamala harris, cracking jokes like rodney dangerfield they were pretty bad jokes, but the whole thing was i thought effective and charming particularly in contrast to what somebody called the the

tired nickelodeon's rerun of donald trump. so i thought i thought that was a good performance today he is set to speak at the democratic national convention. >> we heard those chants of thank you, it's cetera sources tell cnn that he's actually not planning to take part the other events. so what do you think the mindset is going into this week? >> well, his legacy really begins with his speech on monday, and i have little doubt that he will rise to the occasion i think that barring some really unexpectedly disruptive protests asked against gaza, which could happen i think this is nothing but upside for joe biden. i think he goes in there and he first of all, he basks in the adoration of his party, which is something lyndon johnson never had, by the way, in 1968, he couldn't go anywhere near

chicago during the vietnam war and then he can, he can celebrate his accomplishments, which are considerable. >> tee up. kamala harris is presidency and i think he then has to basically underlying the what he calls the existential threat that's on the ballot in 2024, represented by donald trump up an autocracy and if he can do all that with a sense of humor without getting too dark. i think he wants to maintain this spirit of joy that emily harris is running on. >> i don't want to undermine what you're saying here, but there of course there has been so much reporting about the rifts between him and for instance, the former house speaker, nancy pelosi. and fundamentally, he didn't leave because he wanted to. right? he left because he was being told he couldn't win. are there still hurt feelings there? is that something you're encountering as you're still doing reporting?

>> well, look undoubtedly there's real there's a really fraught dynamic going on between biden and pelosi. she's talked about it. she said that she prays that there friendship will somehow survive this i think it will. he'll get over it. i don't think that's going to be problem for joe biden in chicago next week, nancy pelosi oh, see, i think will not be the issue. and i think that one thing is really clear. this joe biden made this difficult decision on his own in the end, i mean, his inner circle was willing to go out and die on that hill with him. he made this courageous decision and it's clear that he really has nothing but goodwill toward kamala harris she doesn't blame her for anything. >> while the situation may be unusual in terms of how she came to be at the top of the ticket it's not unusual for a vice president who is running to be president to have to like bob and weave around the record, right? like, how do you deal with the shadow of the guy

next? to you how do you look at this it compared to some of kind of comparative experiences, well it was disastrous for hubert humphrey, the democratic nominee in 1968 after horrible chicago convention when blood ran on the streets i'm old enough to remember that i was a kid watching it and in shock for kamala harris. >> i think it's a much easier proposition which is not to say that it's simple. but i love that even thinking of an al gore, right? >> or it just feels like there were other kind of moments we can look back to and say how do you make this person and effective messenger? >> well, i think she started to do that already and she certainly did on the subject of gaza when right after benjamin netanyahu was here, she went out, not joe biden, but she went out in front of the cameras and she said quite forcefully i will not be silent so she's already started to strike out on her own and that respect and i think she's also going to be talking a lot about

bringing prices down, something joe biden was reluctant to acknowledge the fact that prices are high. so i think we're already starting to see that. and i think i think she's going to be able to take distance herself enough so that she will be her own person. >> chris whipple. thank you so much for your insights. we appreciate your time. >> my pleasure now, donald trump has repeatedly tried to say that project 2025 has nothing to do with him, but new secretly recorded video shows that one of its key authors was talking about preparing for a second trump term. >> we have that footage next expected to hear ten more schimming the rally, the president, distancing himself from the left. >> bogey me that project 2025 i do not worried about that. this fall comedy is coming to cnn go wrong i got news for you from

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noticed was the energy and recovery that it had it for workout. you want to try it, try armor.com, cnn this morning with kasie hunt tomorrow at five eastern you have the radical left and you have the radical right. >> and they come up with this. i don't know what the hell it is. it's project 25 he's involved in project. and then they read some of the things and they are extreme, but they're seriously extreme but i don't know anything about it donald trump has always denied being part of project 2025, but tonight, secret video captured on hidden camera shows a co author of project 2025 linking trump to it the new video obtained by cnn shows russell vote speaking about this controversial blueprint for a second trump term, and saying trump's disavowal of it. >> well, that'll be just politics. cnn's kyung lah has more our father who aren't and

haven't been you are looking at secretly recorded video of russell vote a former cabinet member in the trump administration this year, has been predominantly now getting ready for a year, five of a trump administration got about 350 different documents that are regulations and things of that nature. boat, the platform policy director for the republican national committee says, he is building the plan for trump's second term. >> i don't know what the hell it is. it's project 25, trump publicly disavowed project 2025, a conservative blueprint for his administration. if he gets reelected. but in private boat said, that's just politics. the details of the real plans are secret and based on trump's own beliefs notwithstanding i expect to you hear ten more times in the rally, the president distancing himself from the left. booking man at project 2025 and, you're

not worried about that and so i see what he's doing is just very, very conscious distancing himself from a brand. >> he's very supportive of what we do and know that we haven't all manner of things that we do. that's even unrelated to project 2025. >> sure though it has been a mastermind behind expanding the powers of the presidency, some of those policy proposals trump has supported two sources, tell cnn, trump, even hosted a mar-a lago fundraiser two years ago for the group vote founded the right-wing center for renewing america he's been at our organization. he's raised money for our organization. he's blessed at in this hotel suite. >> vote thinks he's talking to family members of a wealthy donor. >> but one is a journalist or the other, an actor working undercover for the uk based center for climate reporting the center provided the video to cnn on the condition we blur their faces so they can continue their undercover work. the conversation covers a host

of issues like abortion and how his position differs from trump. >> he talks about rape, incest, and the life of mother oh, i don't actually believe in those exceptions i want to get to illyshin, but i also got to win elections and so i want to get as far as we possibly can in his view of who should be an american so i want to make sure that we can say we are a christian nation. >> and my viewpoint is mostly that i would probably be christian nation-ism that's pretty close to christian nationalism. can we, if we're going to have legal immigration, can we get people that actually believe in in christianity? is that something or do we have to have a, we now had to have asked questions about shari'a law. >> what could be see america looking like i mean? >> i do in an ideal world. i mean, i think we could save the country and a sense of you have the largest deportation in

history and even pornography. >> we'd have a national ban on rfef. we could. write. >> but the most striking of votes statements has to do with presidential power. >> george floyd so obviously was not about race, it was about destabilizing the trump administration. it's the left belief that structures in society are the problem pulling society down four purposes of revolution is exactly what they want and what you're seeing at college campuses part of that as well, the presence has the ability both along the border. and elsewhere to maintain law and order with the military a major part of boats plan is turning thousands of career federal jobs into political appointments, meaning workers could be fired if they're not sufficiently loyal to trump 80% of my time is working on the plans of what's necessary to take control of these bureaucracies.

>> i want to be the person that crushes the deeps i think there's a lot of different ways to do that. >> it is defunding it its empowerment, the ability to not spend money. >> it's getting rid of their independence and then even as both talks about the so-called deep state he claims his group is forming its own to take over on day one, we are trying to create a shadow office of management and budget, a shadow national security council, and a shadow office of legal we'll counsel. >> these are the main oregon's in government that you need outside to create the battle plan. >> and you're not going to publish those know strikes yes very, very close. >> hold. >> we are hearing from both the trump campaign and russell votes organization in response to the video, a spokesperson for boats group is downplaying the video saying vote has spoken about these same topics publicly telling cnn, quote thank you for airing our perfect conversation, emphasizing our policy work is

totally separate from the trump campaign the trump campaign says, only president trump and the campaign represent policies for the second term. >> audie. >> in la. thanks so much. >> now ahead. charges against five people in connection with the death of matthew perry, doctors dealers ended assistant prosecutors say they all took advantage of the actors addiction issues will have more on that next cnn is live from chicago as democrats unite to offer their support to a new nominee and her running mate fellow cnn for complete coverage the democratic national convention monday at seven on cnn and streaming on max there's an electrified you cool for everyone to fall in love with good offers on select models that alexis golden opportunity sales event

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defendants took advantage of mr. perry's addiction issues to enrich themselves they knew what they were doing was wrong. they knew what they were doing was risking great danger to mr. perry. >> but they did it anyway and today's announcement investigators revealed that they uncovered an underground network of drug sellers and also suppliers that they allege are ultimately responsible for distributing the ketamine that killed the friends star the defendants include two doctors, perry's live-in personal assistant, and a person referred to by authorities as the ketamine queen. three of the five have reached a plea agreement perry was found floating face down in a jacuzzi at his la home. this was last october and an autopsy showed that he does hi of quote, acute effects of ketamine and subsequent drowning so joining me now for some context, dr. ben coli johnson, he is a biomedical sciences professor

at larkin university in miami and new york times national correspondent or nesta londono, is the author of trippi, the peril and promise of may additional psychedelics. so first i want to start with, you, ernesto, because when we talk about psychedelics and ketamine where is ketamine on that spectrum of sort of considerations for effectiveness sure. >> there's been a lot of really interesting research into the therapeutic use of ketamine as a psychiatric drug what researchers have found is that for many patients who have not responded to conventional treatments, such as antidepressants one dose of ketamine or a handful of doses because of ketamine can really be transformative in a really short period of time. these can be really fact acting drugs. >> however, this whole field that has been a little bit of a wild west because this drug is not approved by the fda as a

psychiatric intervention right now, physicians are prescribing it off-label and the cost remains high. and what this means is that some patients who get a taste of ketamine therapy in a clinical setting then go on to sell medicaid acquiring it on the. black market, where things can go wrong. >> dr. johnson, i want to come to you but just for a little bit of context connected to what you said, you know, at one point, matthew perry actually kind of denounced ketamine in his memoir, saying that it wasn't for him and that in the the end, he thought he described it as being hit in the head with a giant happy shovel do people understand the risks of addiction or do you think that there's a world of doctors who are not truly forthcoming about them thank you for having me on your show. >> i think the first thing i'd like to make a slight correction to is that i

ketamine is approved for the treatment to depression and also individuals to get ketamine for the treatment of anxiety, for pain, and for other disorders, in fact, has been used experimentally to even help people withdraw from even more powerful drugs. i think that the concern about ketamine has been the unregulated use of ketamine. i mean, that way i'm i believe investors, right. and that there hasn't been enough steps to be able to regularly we licensing of clinics to be able to use ketamine properly. i think that the death of matthew perry was obviously a terrible tragedy for us all. but i think that there are important lessons to be learned. >> i want to talk about those lessons because what's interesting about this case is as far as i can see from the reporting, he was going to a clinic at a certain point. they stopped, or refused, him having more of the drug and then he

went and pursued of access to more. so what does this gray area of doctors, i guess, who are prescribing in this way, dr. ben holy i think that the most important lesson is that ketamine has to be provided in a medically supervised environment and in clinics that usually give catch mean they're very careful, or most of the ones that are licensed, a very careful if a patient then starts to use ketamine surreptitiously, that means they start to order ketamine or go to get ketamine out side of the clinical practice. and the doctors are aware of it. they really need to stop the ketamine administration and take it seriously as a deepening addiction the problem that occurs is that sometimes the doctors are not supervising the patients carefully enough or they're not paying attention, or there rather a

little bit blursday because ketamine has a scheduled three drug it's generally and that lack of attention to patient care is one of the important lessons to be learned from the matthew perry case. >> ernesto, you know, in your book, you chronicled your personal journey with psychedelic therapy, but was it was really fascinating about it is how you kind of gotten into the world of middling oversight what's significant about this particular investigation by authorities? >> well i think the fda has been sending some pretty consistent signals in the past couple of years that they're concerned about the shape of this emerging ketamine medical field. so i think they're trying to pump the brakes on the height that we've seen around, not just ketamine, but the broader landscape of mind altering drugs in the context of mental health treatment. >> i think the biggest takeaway

for people may be interested in this is, you know, if you're seeing advertising and if you've seen claims that sound too good to be true, they probably are and although these compounds and these interventions can be very effective for people who are suffering, i think that crucial piece is what kind of support and what kind of therapy comes alongside these trips and that i think is where many people take a shortcut and thinking that the experience in and of itself is going to land them in a better place when in fact healing takes a lot of work and a lot of attention well, i want to thank both of you for giving us this context. >> we're sharing your expertise been coli johnson and ernesto law danya, thanks so much next, column, kaepernick hasn't been on the nfl field in eight years. >> but as former coach has opened the door for him to return, although not the way you might imagine we'll explain that next on the edge, moments

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however, is i don't want to hear should about him being a quarterback normal that ship should have sailed not only has itself, it should have said, i know some people don't want to say it. i will okay. >> so what does kaepernick think? we're going to ask the reporter who got this scoop, nfl columnist for usa today, jared bell jared, this is a great scoop. so just props to you for that can you just give us a little context? how did this conversation even come about? >> well, think back to jim harbaugh, been a big supporter of colin kaepernick. obviously, they're connecting with 49ers back in 2011, 2012 jim harbaugh still has a lot of love for colin kaepernick and i was out at charges training camp last week and just start at asked him just to check his pulse in terms of whether or not he'd been in touch with kaepernick,

whether or not he wanted to do anything in terms of bringing him in in some capacity because when harbaugh took the job with the charges earlier this year there was rumblings back at that point that, hey, maybe colin kaepernick could be a guy he tried to bring in. so basically i was just trying to find out what harbaugh was thinking and then he told me says, hey, we talked about it and i told him that the door is open and if he wants to go into coaching then there's a spot here for him to proceed with that. >> now, i don't want to create unnecessary suspense this a spoiler alert. >> he hasn't gotten a callback yet. >> that was the thing that harbach also told me. he says they talked months ago, kaepernick was going to think about it and that they never reconnected since then the way i left the conversation with harbaugh was thinking that it is still a possibility, if not. now, maybe in the future. and

the thing that jim harbaugh was adamant about what saying, hey, i know this is a big decision for him. if this is the path that he wants to take then i'm here for him. also, think about this to audie when kaepernick, who was let's face it blackball from the nfl. and was in the process of still trying to play and as he said recently, to sky sports, the london-based tv network, he still wants to play. so there's that bridge that's a little bit separate from this, but that was a thing that stephen a so eloquently addressed. but the point being that when kaepernick was out in the wilderness, if you will jim harbaugh had met at the university of michigan. he had an open work out for him he showed nothing but supportive but and love for cotton. >> we should say harbaugh actually has a couple other ex players who are coaching staff as well. he's very loyal in that way. you know, kaepernick, as we know, has not played since the 2016 season when he

began this very high protest high-profile protests against police brutality and racial inequality famously bending his knee during the national anthem and i tend to think of his story is this unfinished business, not just the athletics but of the nfl's disinterested in talking about those issues, how do you see it no. >> no. i think that's a good point, especially when you think about the issue that colin kaepernick lost his career over really manifested itself on a larger scale. not long after that with the murder of george floyd and the nfl after the george floyd situation really kind of came out and said, hey, we need to listen more to our players and really embrace them. and some of the efforts that they, that they have and some of their

concerns and the nfl actually took steps to try to bridge some of those gaps with its players, with all except for colin kaepernick, colin kaepernick had a collusion case against the nfl. it was settled at an undisclosed amount, but it did not result in him getting another opportunity, although there were several teams that thought about it, there's several teams kick the tires on it. it never happened, it never materials realize and i think that's the thing that has to be so frustrating. the colin kaepernick, especially audie, when he looks see some of the mediocre quarterbacks out there in the nfl, especially in your backup position, i think the thing that jump in here because i think for those of us who don't follow it as closely, we also see players who who are a little bit older, who are getting more time out on the field. it's not so far fetched, but is it like is it basically kind of fantasy at this point just because sports

guys always like are very strident in their opinions about these things. but has the ship, quote unquote sailed? >> yeah. i guess the thing that i would love to see as a longtime observer and journalists, i'd love to see him just get a shot. now, that's not saying that some team, the charges are the team that we are talking talking about right now would say, okay, you're going to come in and be our quarterback. know we're not talking about that, but we see we've seen quarterbacks come off the couch and help a team in an emergency situation, the nfl last season had more backup quarterbacks start games because of injuries than at any point in nfl history. so we're talking about the most important position we're talking about a position that definitely has a high injury rates. so why not take a look at colin kaepernick if you think that he can help you in a certain situation. on the other side of the coin kaepernick would have to be willing to go into that type of central the wasting yeah. just

to get back on the field. but this whole idea about maybe joining the coaching staff of the charges, i think if kaepernick and i don't know because we haven't heard from kaepernick on this particular issue whether or not he'd even be interested in it because audie it's tough to go from being a player to a coach. the long hours coaching, you really have to have dedication for that don't know where the song for the coach jerod bell. thank you so much for your time. great scoop. and i want to thank all of you for watching. stay with us. anderson cooper 360 is next tonight on 360, the former president says he's entitled huddled to attack his opponent personally and much, much more at a press conference. it was supposed to be about the economy also tonight, nearly a month since bowing out of the race, president biden and vice president harris made their first joint parents. will it be their last and later details in the multipg