kind of sleep you deserve i'm pete muntean at reagan national airport. >> this is cnn it's friday august 23rd right now on cnn

this morning simply put, they are out of their minds it was the most important speech of her life. kamala harris accepting the democratic nomination for president plus, i really liked her confidence. >> she's really seemed presidential. >> it was just not moving for me we spoke to some undecided swing voters. >> was harris able to sway them? and later she's complaining about this and that. she's complaining about prices. why didn't she do it? >> didn't build the wall. we built the wall donald trump reacting in real time to his opponent's big night 4 a.m. coming pretty early here in

chicago. it is 5 a.m. on the east coast. a live look at the united center here in chicago. look, you can still see some of those stray balloons up on stage, but man they did a real good job of getting most of the 100,000 of them out of here in just a few hours. good morning everyone. i'm kasie hunt. it's wonderful to have you with us. the 2024 democratic national convention now in the history books with a very different ending than the one that was envisioned by the party just four short weeks ago. kamala harris, completing her rise from running mate to the top of the ticket on behalf of everyone whose story could only be written in the greatest nation on earth, i accept your nomination to be president of the united states of america the vice president accepting the presidential nomination and telling the american people her

life story growing up as the daughter of immigrants, her mother from india, her father from jamaica at the park, my mother would say, stay close, but my father would say as he smiled run, kamala. run! don't be afraid. don't let anything stop you from her past, harrison laid out some specifics for a potential future administration, like reviving the border deal that donald trump opposed harmony between. i refuse to play politics with our security. >> and here is my pledge to you as president i will bring back the bipartisan border security bill that he killed, and i will sign it into law that was just one of the many moments in her speech where she tried to draw distinctions between herself and her opponent donald trump. heritage as a nation, i will not cozy up to tyrants and dictators like kim jong u.n.

who are rooting for trump, who are rooting for trump because you know they know they know. >> he is easy to manipulate with flattery and favors they know trump won't hold autocrats accountable because he wants to be an autocrat himself with the balloons and the confetti falling at the conclusion of her speech, harris and running mate tim walz now enter a new phase of the campaign. >> it's a real sprint to the finish. there are just 74 days left until election day. >> joining us now to discuss margaret talev, senior contributor at axios ron brownstein, cnn senior political analyst shermichael singleton and cnn political commentator republican strategist and megan hayes. of course, a consultant for the democratic national convention welcome to all of you. i'm afraid to count the hours of sleep among us. >> everybody go to bed and get back up again because we hit double digits that's the thing.

because this hall was rocking very, very, very short time ago. um ron brownstein, let me let me start with you kind of big picture here. did harris do what she needed to do tonight? and how does it set her up for this 74 day sprint to the finish? >> you know marshall mcluhan famously said, the medium is the message. i thought last night. the messenger was the message. >> let me pause you for a second. i don't know if our audience can hear this, but what they're doing is popping balloons. yeah, really. don't be alarmed. but. right, i know anyway the medium is the message. >> marshall mcluhan said the medium is the message. i thought the messenger was the message. i mean, there were a lot of interesting themes and arguments but more important than any of them was her presence. she was steely. she was strong she was energetic. she embodied the idea of change. you know i kept thinking of the nikki haley line from february where she said, the first party that ditches their 80 year old nominee is going to have a leg up if her core argument is that we can turn the page on what we

have been living through in the trump era this kind of valley of conflict and polarization she embodied her message in a powerful way. now, i think the one blind spot was she did not give people enough sense of how she's going to help them make ends meet she kind of went she talked more about ukraine than about inflation. i think. but overall, you see the power of the contrast that she embodies implicitly with biden and now explicitly with trump. >> margaret, do you think that she brought any new people in with this speech i was really struck by the messages that she spent most of the time hitting on, because so many of them had to do with issues that actually do cross party aisles and transcend partizanship, um, gun safety, children's safety in schools. >> yes. gun control is, um uh unpopular with the base of the

republican party, but widely popular with most americans, including many republicans. um some of the other issues women's reproductive rights. it's a broadly popular issue. it may divide the republican party, but there are many republicans in the suburbs women in particular, who care about these issues are her conversation, her discussions about the military and strength, american strength nato partnerships that transcends political parties in america. it splits the republican party. i'll also say, if you look out on that audience last night, you would see a sea of women in white jackets, suffragette white. but if you looked on the stage that was not suffragette white, that was straight out of law and order and she had shown up to give her that was not momala last night there was very little momala on that stage. that was something much tougher. >> yeah, it when you think about how those decisions that she made to present herself in this way megan hayes, it does stand out. now, i will also say the program that led up to her

kind of underscores some of this. and you saw a group of veterans take the stage. you saw senators from the critical blue wall states, we're going to dig into ron's latest kind of thinking about that a little bit later on in the hour. but i also wanted to kind of bring this into it. peggy noonan wrote about the speech. of course, a reagan speechwriter and wall street journal columnist. she said kamala harris speech was fine delivered with assurance, stuck to resume values, life experiences rather than a sharing of her thinking. i'm not sure it advanced her position with those who aren't already with her, she says. there's a small but persistent cloud that follows her, distilled down to the idea that she was swiftly and mysteriously elevated to a position. we don't know everything about. how that happened. people aren't fully comfortable with it. i don't think she succeeded in lightning or removing the cloud your thoughts? i i mean, i don't judging from this room and judging from the coverage of it and how people are reacting, i don't think that people are uncomfortable with how she got there. i think that that was a call from the democratic party. so i disagree there, but i also i've seen her

give dozens of speeches in person from her acceptance speech in 2020 to now. that was the best speech she's given. her presence on that stage was commanding. and i do think that you're the the vice president is the most famous, unpopular famous, unknown person in the country. she got to reintroduce herself to the country. and i think people who did not know her were very impressed last night. yes, of course, she needs to give more specifics about how what she's going to do in the policy she laid out yesterday, and that's what the next 74 days are going to be about. but i have never seen her give such a commanding speech with such presence than i did last night shermichael. i mean, look i think visually, esthetically, she looked great. she wore the right colors. i think a part of the calculus if i'm advising her, we know that there's going to be some men out there who are skeptical about a woman. i want to showcase strength. she talked in great detail about bolstering our military capabilities across the globe. that's another thing that speaks to capabilities. despite the fact that she's a woman, she didn't even get into race. she didn't even get into her gender at all. >> it's obvious so tactically speaking, those are all very

smart things. >> yeah, it is at all. >> never, never brought up you know, the history of her candidacy. this was about i am ready to be president. you know, we talked about this before when we talked about double haters why do double hitters exist? because there was not a majority that wanted to reelect joe biden. and there's not a majority. they want donald trump back in the white house. so to some extent her i thought she was she went on, more than i expected in making the case against trump, because you don't entirely have to do that. there's not a majority that you what you have to do is reassure those who are already inclined not to put trump back in the white house, that you are an acceptable alternative and the presence last night you know, the vigor, as you know john kennedy, john f kennedy might have said was i thought the principal argument more than any specific thing she said she was the message right. >> well, and if you one of the key tests i think for political events, obviously this is something you listen to with the sound on. but if you watch it with the sound off, right, there is a specific presentation. it was it was

frankly, a contrast with how hillary clinton did it in 2016. >> doug sosnik test right. who looks best with the sound off? yes yes. >> love a love a good doug sosnik reference at five in the morning, very briefly megan. there was a lot of speculation about beyonce showing up here at this convention. there was a tmz report that she was coming uh, someone put up on i don't i don't always like to pull tweets, but this one was funnyn. the dnc planning a surprise. i'm told this is from a show called nathan for you i hope you're hungry for nothing. >> but did they let this go on too long? the speculation yeah, i think so. >> i mean, it was kind of it just got a little out of control. the rumor started yesterday or wednesday and they just kept going. so. yes. but also, i mean, i guess it drum up some, some interest for people to tune in that normally probably wouldn't have tuned in, but i think strategically having her here yesterday would have been having beyonce here. yesterday would have been taking away from the message and taking away from her speech. so you definitely want to be the biggest star. >> yeah right. yeah. >> but yeah, to answer your

question, yes, it went on. >> and as megan knows, i was texting her all night last night being like, is she coming or not all right. >> up next here on cnn this morning, donald trump has a long list of complaints about kamala harris's speech she didn't talk about china. >> she didn't talk about fracking. she didn't talk about crime fighting. images of their catastrophic. >> he posted more than 40 times on social media last night. he called into three different shows afterward. we'll show you a little bit about what he had to say plus, kamala harris makes her pitch to the middle class and lays out her or some of her economic plan. and it was a somber moment. this was really quite something americans impacted by gun violence told their heartbreaking stories on stage at the dnc we are taken to a private room where police tell us she isn't coming home uvalde is national news parents everywhere reach for their children i reach out for the

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titied newsnight with abby phillip tonight at 10:00 eastern on cnn donald trump is an unserious man but the consequences but the consequences of putting donald trump back in the white house are extremely serious. >> while kamala harris made her case against a second donald trump presidency here at the dnc last night, trump seemed to be paying very close attention. he reacted to harris in real time, a long series of truth social posts published to his

account during harris speech. is she talking about me? trump posted at one point. well, other posts targeted some of harris specific policies. shortly after the speech concluded, trump joined fox news. then he went on newsmax. then he called back into fox news why didn't she do the things that she's complaining about? >> all of these things that she talked about, we're going to do this. we're going to do that. we're going to do everything. but she didn't do any of it. she could have done it 3.5 years ago she could do it tonight by leaving the auditorium and going to washington, d.c., and closing the border all right panel is back. >> uh ron brownstein, what would you make of of how trump so reacted? i thought he simultaneously showed his greatest asset and greatest vulnerability, the greatest asset is that 60% of americans, even after the switch, 60% of americans say they are worse off because of the policies of

the biden administration. and when he kind of argues, well, you know, she said she's going to fix it. she's been there and and it's been getting worse that is probably his best argument between now and november. the weakness is her, you know, her core argument is do you really want to go back to four more years of the kind of chaos and division and volatility of trump and all of that was on full display, but you know, one thing that is true for all the excitement and the importance of eliminating the concern among voters that the democrats are nominating someone who was not capable of doing the job anymore, which is real and has propelled her enormously. most americans do not think they are better off as a result of the biden administration, and she still has to navigate through that, through that headwind. and he reminded that that is not gone. that isn't that has not disappeared. i mean, one thing, margaret, that that stuck out to me, and they have fished around, right, for the best way to push back against her. and trump has kind of gone back and forth between the policy

arguments that ron points out, but also the personal attacks. but the one thing that that he did say that did stick out to me is like, okay, well why didn't she do this over the course of the last 3.5 years? how is kamala harris going to answer that? >> she's going to need to answer it. well, i think what we saw last night, to the extent that she spoke about the economy was kind of her version of bill clinton's. i feel your pain. she did, uh suggest that she has been to the grocery store by saying that she and her opponent had, you know, she did all that stuff. but what are you going to do about it? why is there inflation now? why has it been so difficult to get under control would any administration have experienced inflation or or were there policies particular to the biden administration that helped fuel that inflation? and i think on the these are the two things she's going to be most vulnerable on if the polls that we've seen for the last year hold up, which are inflation, the cost of housing, the price of goods um, and the

border and border security and i think a convention speech is a time to create a mood and set a feeling. but like, hey, guess what? voting starts in a few weeks. >> yeah. you know so there could be no i mean, it's true so yes, 74 days or whatever until election day. but early voting begins in september in battleground states. so. and this is august 23rd. so we are we are just a handful of days from september shermichael. one of the things trump talked about when he called into fox news was a project 2025, which is something democrats have highlighted quite a bit here. um, it does actually seem, based on his comments, that he seems to realize or looking at, be looking at the same data that democrats are looking at in that it's a problem for him because this is how he talked about it. let's listen well, she knows i have nothing to do with project 25. >> they throw it out a group of

people got together. they did a thing i haven't even seen it. i don't want to see it. i told them specifically. i don't want to see it people know where i stand. i lower taxes, she's raising taxes uh, so he's basically we know we've reported here at cnn that many of the people that worked on this plan were actually trump advisers. >> what do you make of what he said i mean, i worked in the former president's administration. >> i worked for doctor carson. it's like if i were to go work for a think tank all of a sudden the ideas and projects i worked on, the ideas and projects of my previous boss absolutely not. i mean, i understand why democrats are attempting to gin up fear where certain aspects of project 2025. i've read the 900 plus pages and some of it is a bit ludicrous, but but at the end of the day, you can only scare people so much. at the end of the day, you can only excite people so much when when the fear wanes, when the excitement wanes and people wake up the next day. to margaret and ron's point they have to deal with the fact that that credit card defaults are up uh, see, cnbc had a report that came out

several days ago talking about the number of americans who aren't able to pay their mortgages or pay their rent. i mean these are very salient things for a lot of people. so i get the fear tactics i also get the excitement. but that does not allow people to have money in their pockets to deal with the very real issues that they're facing. >> quick last word. megan. yeah. no. and i agree with you that people need to have a plan and understand her plan. i think that's what the next 74 days are about. and to margaret's point, this was for a mood to set and some overarching ideas. but donald trump has lied continuously through the last four years when he was president and then now on the campaign. and so for people not to think that project 2025 is his idea is a little bit ludicrous. on on that end, too. >> well, certainly democrats were trying to make sure americans were convinced that it was definitely his idea he's trying to say, no, it's not. i think that tells you everything you need to know about where each side thinks this is headed. all right. still ahead here on cnn this morning, kamala harris wading into a dr acptance speech. we'l show you what she said about the ongoing war between israel

and hamas, and how she says she'd handle the situation as president and an unexpected ovation maybe not unexpected, but certainly emotional. massachusetts senator elizabeth warren moved to tears while she got a long and loud welcome from the crowd on the final night of the dnc frorom leading roles. honey, , i'm home to leadading remodels. . >> i did it. star shakeup renovation to give back in a bibig way. > celebrityty iou allll new y night t at nine e on hgtv. >> ever r worry thatat you're drininking too m much? take e b control l with your r health or hehealth. provovides accesess t memedication p proven to m make easier to o drink less or r to t

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right, 28 minutes past the hour. >> here's your morning roundup. >> i respect him, he respects me. i have no idea if he's going to endorse me. >> donald trump calling into fox after democrats closed their convention. he and rfk jr both going to be in arizona today with kennedy expected to drop out of the race and possibly endorse trump late yesterday, kennedy withdrew his name from the arizona ballot today, cia director bill burns is heading to cairo to discuss a possible cease fire in gaza. >> the visit comes during a back and forth over an agreement between israel and hamas. over the next few days, mediators are set to work through various sticking points in the proposed three phase agreement a volcano in iceland spewing hot lava and smoke for the sixth time since december iceland's minister for foreign affairs says the impact is limited to a local area which was apparently evacuated. >> the fissure was about 2.5 miles long. it grew by a mile in 40 minutes. wow all right.

>> a temperature whiplash continuing across the country today heat alerts in the south. more fall-like temperatures across the northeast. hawaii keeping a close eye on a tropical storm. or just. i wonder who's awake at this hour watching in hawaii. let's get straight to our weatherman, van dam our meteorologist. derek, you have the latest. what's going on? hey. yeah, i think casey, there's a little bit of confusion in mother nature. she's got a tropical storm in the pacific. she's stuck in september along the east coast. july, august and the central parts of the country. and more like october, november over the pacific northwest so we've got a full scale of weather impacting the country. this time. we're focusing in on the temperatures. and i know you've been getting outside and enjoying these cool, cool mornings. we've had and they're well below average for this time of year from green bay all the way to new york philadelphia and boston. but that is going to come to an end today. we start to see the temperature climb through the course of the weekend and part of the reason why you experienced these cool fall like temperatures is because of the dry air that's been in

place over the eastern half of the u.s. but notice how that blue and green gets replaced with more reds, yellows and oranges. that's because the humidity levels will slowly creep up through the weekend. for the eastern seaboard as well. well, it's been downright hot and feeling very summerlike for central texas that continues today. feels like index around 110 for many locations over the central parts of the state. here's tropical storm joni now. it's still well to the south and east of the big island of hawaii. 45 mile per hour winds with this tropical storm, newly issued tropical storm watches for the big island as the system is anticipated to slowly strengthen and slide just south of the hawaiian islands. it will produce a lot of wind 60 to 70 mile per hour gusts from lahaina northward into maui county, and much of the big island but certainly will be a rainmaker for this area. good news, casey, because much of hawaii has been in drought. back to you. >> fascinating. all right. derek van dam for us this morning derek, thank you very much. i appreciate it all right. straight ahead here on cnn this morning holding up the

blue states that could decide the election. plus, a look back at some of the most memorable moments from the fourth and final night of the dnc and what are you here to do to teach you how to say your auntie's name okay so how do you pronounce it? first, you say kamala like a kamala in a sentence. >> then you say la la la la la la la. >> put it together and it's one, two, three. kamala the e t momoments thatat took cultlture the edgege. people w were watch and thenen our worldld changede >> it t had an expxplosive rereverberatioion. >> tv on thehe edge prememieres

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wisconsin and hold every state that president joe biden won by three percentage points or more in 2020, and win the congressional district centered on omaha in nebraska, she would reach exactly the magic number 270 electoral votes. the harris campaign has clearly done the math. last night, the vice president made sure she sent a message to voters in those blue wall states trying to say she has their backs i will bring together labor and workers and small business owners and entrepreneurs and american companies to create jobs to grow our economy and to lower the cost of everyday needs like health care and housing and groceries the blue wall swing states were very well represented on the closing night. plum speaking slots went to senators facing tough reelection bids wisconsin state motto is forward and my

friends, that's where we're headed. the people i'm talking to from allentown to erie they don't tolerate being ripped off uh ron brownstein is, of course, here with us you famously coined the phrase blue wall some years ago to describe this phenomenon here. >> um, let's dig into where this race stands right now in these states. >> yeah. >> so, look, i mean, when i coined the blue wall, it referred to the 18 states that ultimately voted democratic in every election from 92 to 2012, which was the most states the party had won that often since the formation of the modern party system in 1828, donald trump in 2016, famously dislodged michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin from the blue wall. and i think when most people say blue wall now, they actually think about the three bricks that fell out of the wall. now they are very likely to be the decisive states. again, i think the harris campaign's view views their chances in those three as significant. it's like kind of off the table the next, the next tier of the of the sunbelt

states, you know, and when you think about why, it's almost like a twilight zone episode. no matter what else changes in american politics we end up in the same place, you know, as the pivotal states. and i think it is because these states move together now so often, you know, since 1980, 1980, they have diverged one time in the presidential race, there's been a split among the three was 88, when dukakis won wisconsin. bush won the other two in this century, the same party has simultaneously controlled the governor in all three. >> every time except for one term in pennsylvania and once again, they loom i think, as the pivotal states, if everything goes right for harris, she wins them by like a point or a point and a half. so no matter how much enthusiasm democrats feel coming out of here, the same would be true for trump. um, this remains at a knife's edge because these states are so intrinsically close.

>> margaret talev we talked to some undecided voters in pennsylvania about harris's speech last night. let's let's take a look at what some of them had to say, and i'll ask you about it on the side. watch i thought she looked very confident i liked how she spoke from her heart. >> i liked her message of unity. >> she hit all the points that i wanted to know about. i wanted to know more about her, her economic policies. she sounded presidential and i think she's going to be a unifier. >> she wasn't clear enough on the on the policies. >> um she did speak a lot of her personal history on her personal history, which was great. but i, i still don't feel like she's ready. it was just not moving for me margaret talev an interesting range of perspectives there that hit on some of what we were talking about. >> right. like the, the presentation mattered a lot but there were some people who had some questions about the policies. where do you think pennsylvania stands right now?

republicans certainly think it is the entire ballgame that if they can take pennsylvania, obviously there's no path for kamala harris to win this. at the same time, there are some differences between where voters are right now in pennsylvania and michigan and to ron's earlier point, not out of the realm of possibility. we could see a split in this blue wall sort of a trio, if you will how do you look at it right now? >> where do you think it stands? >> obviously, pennsylvania is hugely important because of its size. is it 1919? may 19th? um and so but i think like i think this race is a margin of error race that's why for all the enthusiasm in here tonight, the conversations in the hallways and at the bars and everything, that's not with the camera and a microphone is democrats saying um, you know they're worried that this it doesn't mirror what's actually going on in some of the states where this is going to be decided and that voters are like it's an

economy, race, it's an economy race, it's an economy race. so i do think that potentially what makes this a little bit different is that kamala harris is an african-american woman, and there are a couple of states in the sun belt in georgia and north carolina where if you can really energize the african american vote, if you can really bring voters out to the polls and the restrictions passed by, um, governors in those states don't make it that much harder to vote. et cetera. that you could have sort of a um, obama style levels of turnout but i think it's not a sure thing at all for them. >> well, you're also talking about cutting margins. i mean, trump had had cut into democrats, was cutting into democratic margins among especially the black vote. milwaukee in the blue wall states as well. philadelphia. yeah i mean, what's happening right democrats are improving in the white collar suburbs of these states. the margins for biden in the suburbs of philadelphia and detroit and even milwaukee, which is the most republican leaning, white

collar suburb left north of the mason-dixon line, improved democrat margins in the in the big cities, particularly in the black community, declined. but the pivotal question these are states where the blue collar whites are a bigger share of the vote than they are nationally and i think the principal battleground between now and november is how many of those blue collar white voters, especially women, can trump peel away from harris by making the argument she's soft on crime and immigration, and she's not going to help you with your cost of living because if he can't do that, the likelihood is that improvement in the white collar suburbs post-dobbs don't forget, dobbs had not happened yet in 2020. >> very hard for this is the ball game by the way. tad devine, the longtime democratic strategist, calls the three states me, we like. he basically says they are the biggest swing state that's left 40, you know, 44 electoral college votes. they tend to move together. that's why they're so important in deciding these races.

>> the fact that you can say things like, it's the most republican, white collar suburb north of the mason-dixon line, it's exactly why we have you here. >> yeah, it's true ron brownstein well, counties very grateful to have you on the show this morning. >> thank you. i really appreciate your energy at this hour of the morning. i got to tell you, it's very impressive. all right coming up here on cnn this morning, kamala harris reacting to the war in gaza during her speech last night. will it be enough for progressives who have been critical of the biden administration? plus donald trump is a weak man pretending to be strong republicans teaming up with democrats trying to reach out to undecided voters. and we'll show you some other big moments from the convention. up next a lot can change in a month. >> right now, kamala's campaign headquarters are buzzing. whwhie bideden's hahave been turnrned a a spirit halalloween. >> it's intereststing lumifyfy. it''s kindnd of f amazing. w wo gogo to is l lumify eye e drops lulumify dramamatically reducec redndness inin one minutute. ank

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are working to end this war such that israel is secure the hostages are released the suffering in gaza ends, and the palestinian people can realize their right to dignity security, freedom and self-determination kamala harris, addressing one of the democratic party's biggest divisions this election cycle. the war in gaza protests outside the dnc served as the backdrop to the convention this week, as pro-palestinian activists pushed for a bigger role in the convention. a group of uncommitted delegates who have been opposed to the biden administration's support for israel in its war on hamas, led a sit in outside the united center. leaders of the group said dnc organizers denied their request to have a palestinian american address. the convention, but cnn reports that those uncommitted delegates did enter the venue for harris's speech last night effectively ending the sit in. harris touched on both the suffering in gaza, while also

underscoring her support for israel. >> let me be clear. i will always stand up for israel's right to defend itself, and i will always ensure israel has the ability to defend itself, because the people of israel must never again face the horror that a terrorist organization called hamas caused. on october seven. >> all right. our panel is back and we're joined by marc morial, the president and ceo of the national urban league. marc, good morning. it's wonderful to have you here. >> good early morning. >> i heard you didn't go to bed. so i really appreciate it. >> i miss you very grateful to have you, sir. it's nice to see you again. look, the let's start with with this. this is obviously been a very difficult issue for the democratic party. it was a very difficult issue for president biden. it does seem to me that perhaps those uncommitted delegates coming in

here, not wanting to miss kamala harris's speech, may say everything about where this issue is going with harris at the top of the ticket. how are harris and biden different on this? >> well, i think she articulated the balance and the balance is support for israel while expressing horror at the suffering in gaza and the reaffirmation of a solution that includes two states. and that's been long standing american policy. and perhaps she was much more adept than president biden may have been in stating the fundamental american policy which i think is what many americans want to know, where does this end? what is the end goal? and i think that articulation, i think, was brilliantly done. in her speech last night mark, you spoke on the floor of the dnc from the stage last night. >> let's play a little bit of what you had to say. your focus and a lot of what you spend your time on is housing. let's watch this kamala harris has a

plan to build more housing, keep rent prices fair and help more people own homes. >> donald trump, you denied black people the american dream and kamala harris is creating a future where every family, yes, every family, has a place to call home. >> so considering you framed it that way i'm interested to hear why you think it is that donald trump has made inroads with black americans considering how you view the housing policies that are different between the two of these. >> so let me state those those inroads which are reflected in some polling they'll evaporate by election day those early polls. >> do you think they'll completely evaporate? >> they have never been accurate. black people are hard to poll. they may not be truthful with pollsters that those numbers are going to erode to some extent. there's always been eight, ten, 12, sometimes 15% of

african-americans who voted republican. that's nothing new. that is nothing new. now obama's numbers may have gotten higher and biden's numbers were higher in 1990. in reaction to the four years of donald trump and his disparaging comments about african-americans his non policies, his non-diverse judicial appointments, his non-diverse cabinet, his attacks on african-american athletes. so this number has always been there, but i think it will evaporate now, notwithstanding that the harris campaign has work to do and that work is to move into communities, talk to voters talk to disaffected voters, and to some extent, it's encouraging them to vote, to participate and to have confidence that a president can make a difference in their lives, or that government can make a difference in their lives. that's one of the challenges with many americans. it's a disaffection with the system. sometimes we're reading it as a disaffection with

candidates, but it's also a disaffection with voting per se. and i think that's the challenge in front of the harris ticket, particularly in those communities that are going to be pivotal in milwaukee, atlanta, philadelphia states, cities in north carolina. >> yeah, sure. michael, this has been something you've been really focused on you. i'm interested in your view on this. and if you have a question. >> yeah, i mean, mark i'm curious because i take your point in terms of top line, us being very difficult to poll. we know that but when you look at the crosstabs, it's the low propensity black men under 40 where trump appears to do well if he can turn them out. and that is a big question. it's a fair question. if he can turn them out, that could have an impact in a state like pennsylvania. what are your thoughts on that? well, i think it could have an impact, but you see a lot. i'm listening to the discussion. what people miss is the difference between 2016 and 2020. in 2016, you had ran very aggressive campaigns, picked up 4 to 5% of the vote. you also had depressed african-american turnout in

philadelphia, detroit and milwaukee. in 2020, you did not have a third party candidate, and turnout was elevated. and i think sometimes people miss where the swing vote in these swing states is not only these independent voters it's also voters who don't consistently turn out and so i think that the factor of the third party candidate is very interesting. robert kennedy seems to be on his way out of the race. if he exits the race, then you really have a binary choice that's much clearer, more like 2020 than 2016. >> very interesting. great conversation guys. thanks to all of you for being here this morning. i really appreciate it. all right coming up in our next hour on cnn this morning, a check of the final night of the dnc all right. >> we're going to look back at some of the most memorable moments coming out of chicago this week. plus, kamala harris makes her case and paints the

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