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homelessness in the u.s. she spent washington colonel. join the conversation with each in the morning on c-span, c-span or online at bestand.org. ♪♪ >> the last legislative day of the year in the sate. taking a break to allow work off the floorn material including bill nominations approved by unanimous consent. measur agreed upony republicans and democrats. next votes are scheduled january 81 senators return next year were correct on border security. as always, live coverage of the senate on c-span2. >> research informed policy director at the brookings institution. to us about israel and hamas conflict.

we have seen headlines in recent days that tensions are rising. describe what is happening. guest: as you know, there are iran based rebels. to the extent that the u.s. has been involved with it on the others, helping the government, although there is not much government left. 10 years worth of bad blood. they have decided at this particular moment to start shooting missiles and drones and a retaliation or escalation, or a spreading of the conflict. the u.s. has organized a coalition, mostly nato and middle eastern partners to escort ships along shipping lines that have decided to avoid the red sea as a result of this

threat. it is not the end of the world, but it does add time and cost. u.s. has organized this escort, in effect. i'm not sure how many ships will be involved. they are not known for having super sophisticated weaponry. they have already caused damage, but that is before the coalition and task force was organized by secretary austin. i think we will probably do pretty well to protect commercial shipping and restore some sense of calm and normalcy. even the occasional drone -- even in that event, you probably have limited damage, as opposed to a catastrophe. my hope and expectation is that this task force will be successful in restoring some degree of confidence.

host: any concern of having a beefed up presence in the area? guest: not yet. they do not like to say anything except that the world might end tomorrow. it is a little bit naive if bad things happen, but in this case, this kind of scenario plays to our relative strengths. they are figuring out where they have the missile launching bases . they still have to finish several miles, at least. we are out at sea. admittedly, these are close quarters, in maritime terms, but we are not facing a major maritime power. we had to dock our ships. if we really had to hug the

coast with commercial ships, they had to be close. that would be difficult. my expectation is that we do pretty well. host: what are the prospects for a paz in the war? and hopes of hostages being returned. guest: i think there are some prospects, especially if it is framed after the pause. people are saying this must be the end of the fighting, permanently. israel saw the cause for a p ause, i think it would be even more opposed. they would expect that it would create more pressure on them to

stop before they have eliminated the hamas leadership. on the other hand, the hostages present another reason to do a pause for a few days and get an exchange. in that regard, i would not be surprised. we know that israel has gone to extreme lengths to get one visitor or one hostage home. so that does create -- this one, i will not make any predictions. i'm more confident that the task force will succeed that i am about a potential paz in -- pause in gaza. host: here is a portion of remarks and how she reacted. [video clip] >> democracies are stronger and

more secure when we uphold the law of war. protecting palestinian citizens is a moral duty and a strategic imperative. we will continue to stand up for the right to defend themselves. we will continue to urge the protection of civilians during conflict and to increase the flow of humanitarian aid into gaza. that is important as israel fights to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure in gaza. it will be crucial for our work and for our partners, after the fighting stops. it's -- guest: the secretary has done a great job in the pentagon. that was one of his louder and

more emphatic moments. second, we usually talk about the challenge and potential difficulty of becoming secretary of defense. i have to say that they have both done great job. in this case, secretary austin actually benefits there really is no one on the face of the earth more recent experience and demand dealing with top sgt. feist and lloyd austin. listen at a local level in the deputy commander in iraq during the overall search, commander of the overall and there's a lot of fighting going on. then he became head of the central command for the u.s. role was more direct we helped

rebuild the army as it after it was decimated in 2013, 14 by isis and others have key roles as well and also to record perfectly successful, it is aas tough fight but learned by heart experience difficulty carrying out these campaigns in modern times given weaponry groups like most rebuild and his biggest points but there is no silver bullet, certainly he has as much as anyone in the face of your and quite hostile combined with his demeanor are getting the message through so that is the brought things out sick. the thing about modern technology and easier tunnels are a particular problem for

communications with the fencing difficult. the main one for it would be difficult by here and and therefore there in my reading more enemies about they seem to acknowledge the didn't have not in my judgment but i think they are starting to understand the way they continue has to be more

targeted under the headline, peter statistics you say israel's money. palestinians have been killed, nearly 20000 palestinians have been killed and 50000 would the enclave in ruins, united nations 85% of its 2.2 people displaced. the reason to doubt any of the palestinian and numbers of estimated casualties of their own to the numbers do not strike me as a form numbers publishing

real will promote we have to find a way to keep expanding military and warmer reason for pause and fighting but a permanent change for as long as this has to take. i think it may take well into the winter, even into the spring so israelis will have to find a way to allow for augmentation military relief.

>> i want to read the caption on the front page of the washington post, lentils to become acute is scarce, issues with contaminated water reported and disease spreading. this is under pressure, historically talk about egypt and israel's relationship and why they have said they would not accept refuge israelis relationship is pragmatic the way, and as you know relations going back more than four years, and president carter helped the reconciliation and since then you know that gone through different leadership and a strong arm leader on election

this week nonetheless. this ability to do business and a common concern in jerusalem is the desire not to see hamas in power, not to support groups like hamas support extreme violence bearing in mind those groups sometimes interfere in politics and the president of egypt to reach the accords assassinated thereafter within his own country so in that sense egypt doesn't want to be part of the extremist violence and egypt doesn't want to million refugees out of gaza so people have interest in solving the problem but don't have an answer how to do it. >> you can join the conversations, questions and comments here is how we buy for

republicans. text at 2027488003. join us on facebook.com, c-span. spring valley, new york, republican. good morning, david. >> the jewish people. it's history and the second thing in this case.

>> any reaction to those comments? >> appreciate your call. resonate in this region and they felt very strongly or at least some fraction of the territory. in the only man got back millennia before the time of christ the last couple centuries it was sometimes backed up by the unitedd states essentially was politics built empires within the broader middle east and they were expected to follow problems that europeans created in the holocaust making jewish people feel unwelcome so i'm not trying to adopt these narratives, theyei compete and

have strong sociality even though sometimes the proponents are in certain directions for historical or political processes. i think the only way to stop this state solution for how seen people and jewish people share the land, divided up share the land that modern-day israel either owns and claims or controls.im the other thing is understand c-span online, i'm not sure this is where it divides people, it tends to be more about age, people my age tend to be. reporter: israel and younger for to be more sympathetic toward palestinians but as we see this is an issue for generational

distinctions not just partisanct political that's my own additional about. >> part of the democratic party, protesting all ages and accused president biden and being part of it. >> it is true the public morertf the palestinian protesters of respectable equipment to the palestinian people. deeply concerned and correct and worriedd about the palestinian population in gaza. the split is more striking within the country. second, i think the word genocide is used inappropriately

and do not accuse israelis a genocide, none of the critics of israel use that term because israel's not trying, israel is trying to overcome hamas. they're using the wrong kind of court force and concerns about the rules of war and the human rights of palestinian people and you could argue sometimes specific crimes is genocide. genocide is deliberate killing of an entire people are mass murder the people simply because of their identity. ...

will we have got to understand that jewish, the jane -- judeo-is a religion. stop saying it's a group. it's not a race of people. i don't understand why people keep saying that. it's not i a race of people. i can be jewish and it bothers me if you don't think it's not genocide, and you have had to look back to why that happened. when did it happen, october 7 corexit site come on man let's be realistic. we are supposed the country of human rights. it's obvious what's going on over there, man. look at the building. wrong is wrong and right is right. we to stop doing what we are

doing. african-americans are living with joe biden and any congressperson that allows this on what's going on is just sad. all these people dying. come on, man. look at the people. >> by right eric. michael o'hanlon. >> he makes a point. the bombed out apartment buildings we know full well tomas was hiding fighters and some of those buildings. still i agree with the caller there had to be a clear sanction the way the western military uses force between what we do and what the president siri did when he was leveling apartment buildings is preferred tactic for going after the assistance that he was trying to defeat 10 years ago in the syrian civil war. i fundamentally lined up with not the same argument to get there as our caller but the same

bottom line that few israelis had to be more selective and 20,000 people dead, it's not genocide but it's a terrible tragedy. not to blame israel because they lost 1200 people in one day and hamas would have and will try again to kill more than that of possible because hamas rejects the israeli state altogether so in altogether so that they said that israel has a right to defeat hamas and overthrow it is the government of gaza and the leadership in major weapons caches and infrastructure. i agree with the caller used the apartment buildings that are leveled something is not right about how this is being done. >> dean in lewisburg, ohio, independent. >> hi. i want to talk a little bit about even if it's not genocide, it looks to me as though it is collective punishment which is a war crime on its real side.

i had to say the coverage on the ground, i find lacking on most corporate news and that's why i definitely watch free speech tv. their news program is called democracy now. it's on directv channel 348 on dish tv. it's 9415. >> a right will have michael o'hanlon reacted this collective punishment michael o'hanlon. there's statistics in the paper that say of the nearly 20,000 that are being killed many are children. >> i don't think israel is deliberately carrying out collective punishment but i think there's a line between what it's doing and collective punishment is a little too blurry for most of us do feel at all comfortable with so what israel's doing, i'm not going to justify each and every thing but

what they are doing is being willing to cause damage to the palestinian civilian population and innocent people and yes children in the pursuit of the group that they think has become so fundamentally barbaric and and unacceptable to the existence of their country then it must be. he is it language that israel used if you are a hamas you are a dead man walking podesta how we talked about al qaeda and its understandable but it's not realistic. however israeli insistence on making sure hamas leadership is taken off the battlefield one where another and the hamas infrastructureon is weakened in this is the key point that gives to collective punishment the palestinian w people realize tht there is no self-interest in having a group like hamas in power in charge of their government because that group

will inflict damage on israel and that leads to inevitableta retaliation or the palestinian people to become the t primary victims and the target. israel hopes that logic would then prevent a group like hamas from being popular and come to power again. i don't know if israel will be successful in that argument you put in the meantime a lot of people die. i would not define this myself as that. >> michael o'hanlon from the "wall street journal" palestinian factions talked post-war gaza. what are the factions and which one could lead quick >> is a great question but i saw that article too. i was quite surprised play. there's a hamas political wing based in the eastern gulf region of the middle east a nice comfortable city in doha qatar. there's a palestinian authority based in the west bank separate from gaza by few thousand miles.

it's more reasonable although somewhat arteriosclerotic and somewhat corrupt group so in the scheme of things much better than hamas released militantly which was the group that carried out the october 7 attacks. it's a hamas political wing based i think in doha if i'm not mistaken as well as palestinian authority based in ramallah and the west bank that israel currently controls that's a crucial element of the future palestinian state. those are the two groups that are talking the most apparently and wondering if they can find a way to create an umbrella with the nation presumably excludes the militant wing and may be acceptable to the international community and maybe someday to israel.

>> andre in gatesville ohio, republican. >> yes, good morning and thank you first of all thank you for this program. to the point in terms of >> andre we are listening. >> yeah. the point being so this is what the sixth serious military confrontation between israel and the state. in 1948 the states decided to eliminate and did not take too kindly to the u.n. resolution that created israel. and attacked them immediately. the states attacked israel. the minute the advantage was lost in the pulitzer prize

attack all of a sudden you must have a cease-fire. to save the states that attacked israel from their own destruction. so we go from there and we go to the 57 were and yom kippur and later and this one. every time that's the attacked israel after two, three or four days they regret it and the world starts clamoring for a cease-fire. how is that fair to israel? >> michael o'hanlon. >> thank you at think the most of the way except the way described as poor as another war between the states in israel did

most of the states involved are against what hamas did october 7 publicly and privately and it's iraq and other states bearing in mind that iran is persian and not elites primarily and its shia and not sunny and much of the previous rejection of israel coming from the frontline states that are primarily sunny. anyway the point being the state did not cause this war and the key stateses are now accepting israel's resistance to many people believe hamas chose october 7 as the date to attack because saudi arabia in israel were on a path towards normalization of relations billing on bipartisan achievements and previous american president.

donald trump was successful in trying to help under the abraham mccord bring a couple of smaller states and muslim states in the region and to better terms with israel. it was the general movement among most states in israel and the united states republican and democratic leadership here, to improve israel's standing in the region and work towards a viable peace that would be sustainable. i would be critical myself not of the states in this case that of iran and obviously hamas and to some extent israeli rejection of the two-state solution. it's not their fault for what happened on october 7 in any direct sense of course but they contributed to a political environment in which the palestinian people felt less and less hope for their own future and that gave hamas a certain ability to milk those grievances and keep themselves in power and

feel justified in carrying out these attacks. it's that fundamental perpetrators are hamaset and irq and other state. >> reviewers israel has offered a proposal for a cause. be a weeklong week long pause in exchange for 40 hostages. no deal yet but i wanted to update you on that. michael o'hanlon in sunday's "new york times" an article about the financial networks known by the israeli intelligence and u.s. intelligence and it was not stopped. that is how they were able to fund their network and have access. >> this is an important historical backdrop because it helps explain what was going on in the race we mind and by the way that is completely change now. the netanyahu government in israel didam not really have any

enthusiasm for two state negotiated solution and they still don't have enthusiasm but i can detect but they did fail occupied gaza that left in 2006 i believe and then hamas eventually took over as the israelis left and violated previous democratic understandings and turned into essentiallyng a autocracy art dictatorship by hamas and through that hole. not israel who watched warily. years went by and felt by and felt they could cope with situations of his resurgent duke things like all-out palestinians in the israelis to work and allowed hamas which was essentially the government of gaza to provide services and because hamas didn't have a lot of sources around the new to tolerate wealthy like qatar and

others tolerate their providing money to hamas in exchange for this understanding that hamas would be allowedg to keep governing in gaza and would refrain from -- massive uses of violence against israel although its formal position was not changed and it should be a will of liberated as a country. that was the motive and there is a tacit understanding that maybe itthis is okay maybe this is the best we can get and certainly takes the pressure of having to negotiated two-state solution. so they went with it and we went with it. to keep on life-support or help it gradually improve the well-being of its people without having to face the fundamental dilemma of its long-term political status. that whole logic was obviously

swept aside on october 7 and that will never be reestablished as far as i can tell but the israelis will never tolerate that but theyth were hoping that hamas could partially succeed not as a organization but as a provider of services to its own people and that's why these financial things were tolerated. >> and in princeton junction new jersey, democratic caller. >> thank you. andy from princeton junction and i have a peace plan. peace is peace definitely a two-state solution make every west bank settlement part of palestine. had the israelis and in the west bank settlements be part of palestine. there's 1.5 palestinians in israel and let there be a lot of israelis in palestine. that'sis number one. number two have every kindergarten class in israel

taught byht palestinians. have every kindergarten class and the palestinians in palestine be taught by someone from israel. have the old states moderate states support israel like jerusalem an international city. give dignity to the palestinians and 80% of both want peace. so let the west bank settler. make it part of israel and just like in the 50s and the 60s where the federal government had to protect children and did a pretty good job of it initially let that be the goals of the palestinian government and the israeli government, to integrate the west bank settlement into the state of palestine and let

them understand what pieces. >> michael o'hanlon? >> two things i like the emphasis on history and teaching history from the other people's perspective so i can go along with the spirit ofof that commeo whether kindergarten is the place to do it or not we could have that conversation at another time that most of the settlers in the west bank don't want to be part of palestine and i don't not sure the palestinians want to be citizens but i would have no problem with your proposal sir if it was agreed to by the parties but that the settlers are expanding their presence in the west bank of the vision to make sure the west bank spaceport of israel but that's in the fundamental political modification -- motivations i don't think the plan what traction on either side. if i'm wrong and they couldnt negotiate that no reason not to thave a two-state solution with as you say that jewish and

palestine just because they are palestine's in israel and their a lot of palestinians in israel and that's al. good thing as far as it goes. so thank you for the comment. >> michael o'hanlon to reap more good of bookings that adu and we appreciate the conversation as always. thank you. >> thank you. happy holidays through the senate returning.