country. i think we are heading there. >> if you know all 92000 plus hours of book tv programming is avlable online. just visit booktv.org to wash watchful programs on your favorite authors. >> admits her favorite nonfiction off and invite all of our programming online at booktv.org. just use the search bar at the top of the page. weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv it documents america's story. on sunday @booktv brings you the latest books and nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 comes with these television companies and more including charter communication. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and we are just getting started. building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those

who need it most. >> charter communications along with these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. >> joining us now youtuber max miller he is the author of this new book tasting history. mr. miller, first of all how did you put into cooking in the first place? >> yes it is actually a funny story. i was on a vacation at disneyrl world with my friend and she got sick. we spent the entire vacation in our hotel room watching the great british bake-off. i became enamored with it. i love that show so much i decided to teach myself w how to bake everything they were breaking. over the next couple of years i did just that. that's how i got into baking and how i got into the history of food i used to talk about the history of food on the show.

>> what might you put this up on youtube your experimentation? what's a friend at work. i would bring in my creations to my coworkers and let them try them. but they had to listen to a lecture on history at the same time and one of my coworkers said you should put this up on youtube. so i did.. and it worked out. >> how many subscribers you have now? >> would just pass 1.7 million. >> went and how did history become a part of your cooking show? >> history was actually the beginning of it. i have been a fan of history since i can remember. since i was a little boy listening to myto grandfather's stories which to meet with history. and so food for me was a way to explore history. it is a way to kinda put myself in the shoes of people who lived in the past begin to eat what they might have eaten.

history is the crux of the show and the food is kind of the way i present it. >> would george washington recognize what we eat today? >> i think of many things, yes. definitely not in their current form. food was definitely simpler. we have so many more influences from international cuisine now. so many other ingredients that just weren't available but there weren't -- there were ingredients then were properly put nutmeg and everything during late 18th century here in the u.s. we don't use that very often anymore. a there are similarities but there are a lot of differences as well. quick so is the purpose of nutmeg? >> is just a flavor that was very popular. flavors come and go in popularity throughout the ages. for most of the last 100 years

salt-and-pepper have been the spices of choice that's on a table when you go to a restaurant. but that has not always been the case in the past it was nutmeg her for a long time it was sugar if you are wealthy. you just have sugar on the table are different spices come and go. that changes even now in different parts of the world. not going to find those spices and japan it will be someplace else. it is always evolving. >> how are you able to find some these ancient recipes? how far back to the going tasting history? >> the oldest recipe that i have found, storm out 4000 years ago from the babylonian tablets. they are tablets that have very early recipes. probably the earliest recipes that we would have. most of the recipes i find are civilly from old cookbooks. old text and whatnot that i have found.

a lotei of museums and libraries have put their works up online. the come from stories or diary entries. those are always little more difficult to find. they are often the more interesting ones because they are not written as recipes so there is a little bit more detective work on my end that i have to get to do. stu what are some of these include in tasting history some of these ancient? >> absolutely. the book goes through the last 4000 years. to start in babylon and go through ancient egypt, greece, rome, through medieval europe, toto ancient china and the midde east. all the way up there about the 19 teens. >> host: let's go back to 4000-year-old recipe. what was it and were you able to re-create it? >> i was. there are a number of recipes in those texts.

it is a beat stu there is a lamb stew that's more focused on the lamb and it has some milk and like proto- croutons give it a bit of a texture and a crunch. i re-created both. that old of a recipe they have no scholars there's always some holes and you just have to be okay with that and make the best version that you can. >> did you ever have trouble finding some of the ingredients that you needed for the older recipes? >> sabsolutely. some simply don't exist anymore and if they do exist they are changed. the ingredients have changed over the hundreds and definitely thousands of years.

some are difficult to find. the sheep that should be used the old recipes is that till sheep those are still around but they are very difficult to find especially in southern california. so i had to use regular sheep meat which was fine. but yes, sometimes it is impossible but sometimes it is just so difficult i have to be okay at using it more modern version. the point of the book is to let people make these att home so i never wanted to be too difficult to find something. i always give you an alternative you can use it. >> you done modern updates? >> absolutely. channel during a lockdown. i was in my condo and did not have a lot of access to anything that was on the s corner store. and so i made the show to bring

just as you can make in your kitchen and you have most of the ingredients for it once or i'll throw in ingredients that are just too interesting to not try to use. so sometimes you have to go onto the internet and find those but that's part of the fun as well. stu and max millie were there some recipes you just got started and could not finish because the taste did not appeal to your modern abilities or you could buy the ingredients? >> her to come to the taste that's part of the fun of the show. those recipes that ended up not being very good did not make it into the cookbook of course. but on the show i go all of the way. even if it's terrible to stick dish i still tasted because thee history become so important. but i'll be quite honest in the show don't make this this is definitely a dish that has become extinct for a reason. >> host: florence nightingale appears in tasting history, what

is the connection? >> i do a recipe for a bread pudding that was served during the civil war and hospitals on the union side. that recipe comes originally a recipe used during the crimean war there would've been served in the hospitals that/gal worked in. it's not like bread pudding that we know today it's more like a steamed pudding which was popular inn england. it is just interesting to see how the foods that are being served to those who are wounded are quite different then to the people who are actually doing the fighting. t it's kind of likeas if you're going to the hospital you will at least get to typically eat better that was the one upside of it being wounded i suppose. see what did you find their times in history were shortcuts were made because they had to be??

such as during wartime? >> absolutely. lately have been doing a lot of rationing videos. during world war i and world war and the horror that of course. rationing was always ane issueo you would have to deal with not having access to ingredients. the sugar be on general came about during the 19th century when sugar was not being imported to mainland europe because the english had blockaded from napoleon. so they develop sugar from the sugar beet to get sweetness into their food. >> we can't talk about the history of food without talking about roma. would we recognize some of the ancient roman foods they ate? >> yes. there are some that are not to chain their early forms of french toast and omelettes.

but one thing that is extremely different as many recipes we could kind of a recognized use very different ingredients we would never ever use like garamond which is a fermented fish sauce that was used with almost everything even the desserts had this fish sauce that lendan a very complex and e bit of a saltiness to their food. but it is not something we typically use today. >> who is rufus? parts he was born into slavery and after the civil war he began learning how to cook. he workedd its way all the way p to being the head chef for the pullman car company which are very, very fancy train cars for the elite of america. he really created a cuisine that

was used in those train cards cars fordecades after words ande one of the top celebrity chefs in america. the story is absently fascinating. his cuisine is interesting because it is kind of a combination of the foods he grew up eating alone with the foods of the very wealthy and elites combined together it is a wonderful, wonderful foods. >> host: over the span of history you have looked at, there been consistent ingredients or consistent foods interestedly today? yes. but usually the easiest ones to grow the easiest ones to get.kn onions, and garlic, and oils of any kind. really those basic ingredients appear all over the world and all throughout cuisine in

general. but one of the things is always appearing in different forms as spices. every organization is always one at some kind of spice to flavor these foods. while the spices have changed, obviously, the desire to get them. even some are very laborious to produce. everyone loves spices in some way or another throughout history. >> what about bread and grains? >> absolutely bread is the staple of most diets honestly in some way. in the way that it is made has not really changed all that much. you have got flatbreads and arisen breads or leavened breads. and a yeast, salt, flour, and water. that's all that is in most of them and their sympathy many types of bread throughout history but just those four

ingredients is pretty amazing how many variations have come up with those few ingredients. see what maximal it when a you look at this history what about culture and religion playing a role in the development of recipe? >> religion -- food is culture. that is definite. new contract with people of way people migratedthroughout tn the foods they brought with them and intermingled but how they've changed as they met with other cultures. other stubs are friendly. when it comes to religion food has been such an important part of people's lives. i thinkop we don't appreciate te way people used to because the amount of time and labor that went into getting food it's always been a part of religion

because food was truly life one of the recipe for beer was a him to the goddess of beer is from ancient samaria. it's a list of what you do to make this early form ofns beer t was considered a sacred a drink but it's a drink you could drink every day there intertwined it always happens. >> what is the connection if there is one between pretzels and monks? cork pretzels have a lot of stories that grew up around the creation. nobody really knows how they were created. many of the original story said they were created by monks. some say they were created to mimic the shape off my arms against her chest with top

artist created by monks during a siege of vienna when the turks were coming in and ended up making these pretzels they heard them burrowing under the citylw walls. pretzel is often shown on the table during the last supper at which duckling did not exist at that time. that jesus and pretzels side-by-side. from tuesday without going too long without talking about politics. lemonade at lucy. she probably did not call her says many did was a teetotaler.

that's part of the prohibition movement. years before prohibition went intope effect. to get people to stop drinking alcohol. instead they had lemonade. she and rutherford b hayes made lemonade very often in the white house it is unclear how onboard he was with this. she seemed to be in charge of the can the beverages of the white house. the opposite end of the spectrum. yes very opposite end of the spectrum. in the 18th century so m much jen consumed by the population and london. 10 pints per day per person per

they essentially there are more and london than there are and businesses in london today. it was a crazy time because much of the gin was adulterated. so it had things like arsenic at different ingredients that could kill you. it became such a problem the government had to step in and the push people away from gin and instead got them into beer. >> another recipe you have is the sole cake. what iss that? >> soul cakes are really one of the early forms people would go around on all souls site just after halloween him to sing to their neighbors asking for this little cakes they would often have a cross on them or other itsymbolism.

it was a basically you give me the soul cakes and i will pray for your loved ones who had passed on. it was the early form of trick or treating. obviously now we go forit candy and it is a fun thing. but in the early days it was rather serious but still a lot of fun. stu went who is your co-author? >> and is absently fantastic. when it comes to recipe writing there is an art to it. there's an art to getting what i do in the kitchen to be replicated by someone who is just reading those words on a page. it is a skill that i in many cooks just don't possess. he does have that skill. my ramblings and formatted them and away they will let you make things in the kitchen. >> host: of course we have to remember the role of marine.

and your youtube success. >> yes marine is the one who got sick on our vacation. and it keptt me in the hotel rom while we were at disney world and watch the great british bake-off. she's the one i credit for giving her passion for baking. even though it was just by watching a tv show. she is also the one in the early episodes i would think about when i was writing my script and talking to the camera. wothis is how i would tell my friends about whatever i was baking that day. ask what did you learn in the writing of this book and looking of the history if you had a put in a sentence or two, what did you learn? >> two contradictory things. one is that our tastes have changed wildly. inor many ways they become much more sophisticated.

and that cuisine is a more varied today than anytime in the past. on the other hand we have not changed that much. her passion for food, our attention to what food means to the cultural significance of having fancy food on the table. being able to take people out to nice restaurants it's a way to impress people we have not changed all that much. two contradictory things. stu went to max miller is the author of this book tasting history, explore the past through 4000 years of recipes. we appreciat you being a book tv. >> thank you so much for having me. next is a book tv in depth the program pulitzer prize winning author and biographer stacy schiff. her books include a great improvisation