saturday, american history tv documents america stories, and on sundays booktv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span two comes from these television companies and more, including spark life. >> greatest town on earth is the place you call home. at spark light it is our home too right now we're all facing our greatest challenge that's why spark life is working to keep you connected we're doing our part so it is a little easier to do yours. spark light, along with these television companies supports c-span2 as a public service. >> it's interesting to me that here we have a hot night and weren't quite sure what kind of attendance we were going to get tonight. but i'm quite impressed by this turnout and curious as to why this but parts of the reason why there's a turnout such as this --

is the two people who are being represented on the stage here tonight for the executive directors of their centers. but then that's presidents carter and ford who demonstrated that you could be a decent honorable person, and still hold the highest office in the land i think there's not simply nostalgia for the idea of decent people being president but a recognition that in some sense a republic requires it. secondly, they demonstrated, their real ability for civic friendship and for personal friendship even though they were bitter political rivals in the 1976 presidential election, after their presidencies they became very close friends i was telling -- paige earlier today my favorite exhibit here in the museum is the funeral president ford's funeral and president carter's speech of the funeral which is

profoundly moving. it is a really beautiful speech and just -- such heart felt delivery. and in some sense hope on its own right. but with that i would like to introduce our two guests tonight i'm goingni to start my far left there your far right whitney executive director of the general ford presidential foundation, and should be familiar to most of you. and if you look at your flyers, you about see the biographies of both our speakers. and i should point out that this is at best a kind of thumbnail of the sort of accomplishments of both of them. as i spent some time in preparation for this, googling, ms. alexander and just a staggering list of accomplishments and achievements. really --- an incredible experience, next

to page alexander chief executive officer of the carter center. and she contacted us a while ago, and told us that she would be in rapids and want to get tonight and we immediately saw the opportunity and said if we can put her on our stage we should definitely be putting her on our stage and late august we're at work and low and behold that has worked. so -- thank you paige for coming to grand rapids and welcome to the ford museum we're thrilled to have you here. i would like to begin tonight panel with just a few comments and then i'm going to ask questions of note and take it over from therere for the most part. it is a concerning political moment i think most of you know and our country today that if

you look at some of the polling data that we have -- a majority of americans believe that we are already in the middle of a civil war in this country. it is. a cold civil war but a civil war nonetheless. a majority of people who had voted to elect to reelect president trump in 2020 believe that their state should succeed from the country and 43% of biden voters believe that the country should divide into different parts so the sort of things that led to the first civil war acts of violence, talk of succession all of this again. ...

another survey found that 46% of americans believe a future civil war is likely in this country. 43% it's unlikelysi and 11% are simply not sure. almost half of americans believe some sort of civil war is likely in this country. and i think one of the things we are dedicated to, is to keep that from happening if we possibly can. if you study the history of spain in the 1930s you will know how ugly those kind of civil wars can be. in our institutions are at historic lows. i have a graph here about trusting government to do what is right it's lower now the main depths of watergate and vietnam. it's one of the lowest rates ever so institutions concerned

about violence the experiment in democracy falling apart seems to be a very big part of the day and that is kind of what we are going to talk about. these sorts of things we need to pay attention to to try to hold us together and 237 year sustained democracy is quite a remarkable achievement. something we would like to preserve. and so with that i'm going to begin asking questions of our panelists and i will ask you first. one of the things the carter center does a lot of his election monitoring. they've done a lot of it in foreign countries. when starting to have to do it in this country. in the wake of the 2020 elections the americans had become both more aware of and concerned about how we run our country.

what are the difficulties we face in terms of trying to figure out how we can have elections accepted broadly among the populace? >> thank you jeff and thank you all for being here. think it might've been a littlea bit of the air conditioning i promise you from georgia we did not bring this hot weather it is part of the reality of the world now. the 2020 elections at the end of the day wereth the safest most secure election the u.s. has seen almost every state ends with a paper ballot at the end of the day but there are other systems in place. that is one of the stories that does not get out there because there are other stories that take up space. when we looked at this a start at the carter center in our positions in the summer of 2020 i had been living in amsterdam so it was overseas, came to

georgia to take the job. i am from atlanta originally. i landed on june the first five remembered june 1, 2020 it was a hotbed of covid. i am a landing firm europe to flatten the curve i get off the plane cdc says have you been to iran or china cosmic i'm surprised that your question but okay i drive down the street from atlanta it's the weekend after the murder of george floyd get to my parents a house i see washington being teargas and i thought how am i going to go where the carter center goes 113 different elections in different countries but i think were going to have an oil in the united states i call president carter and said i want to talk about how we do this overseas for not going to hold a mirror to ourselves and figure for doing

it right. we have not looked at what are some of the similarities overseas that we need to think about in the u.s.? how do we build trust back in the election process? we do independent observing and monitoring and 40 different countries and different elections we are doing it today in zimbabwe as we speak there's 98 observers looking at the elections in zimbabwe. so fast-forward to 2020 and out 2022 we did in georgia, arizona, a little bit here in michigan. north carolina. we are starting to look at this at home because i think it is important that independent nonpartisanrv observation is eay to walk into a foreign country the carter center shirt on paper like the internationals are here. but when you walk into georgia with the carter center shirt on it kind of says something very particular and especially because we were blue which we should not have warned blue.

i did not realize that the colored been usurped apparently you cannot wear blue or reds . so doing this in a nonpartisan way is one of the reasons why we want to have conversations so bipartisan and nonpartisan say how can we build a back trust in an election process because people feel they're casting their votes there's no little men and the machine and changing those it's accountedan appropriately. that's one of the ways from 2020 movin' forward we started looking at how do we build back the trust? >> it is so difficult to do. >> it is, it is. >> how do you build that trust? >> i think shining the light on things is always the best way to do it. and so if you are able to say, i had forgotten when i went in and george and voted the first time i started believing the stories i heard you're right there was a

qr code that's all that there was. how do i know that was real? i did not realize -- michael did not remember until i voted the second and third time we had a few runoffs that year that in fact when it showed on the screen what it was that was actual ballots it printed out with a qr code but my actual ballot was there so i could see who i voted for when i stuck it in the ballot reader. not that that's we have to remind people it's not on your id was checked it was not checks are properly or somehow the machines aren't working. there is a paper trace. that's why limiting audits which is something we did in georgia to count to make sure the qr code match the paper winners. so if we have to do that to build back trust we will. it is a lot of effort but i think it is important. we have to shine a light on it and people have to understand when you go in about how these

votes are counted. quick so you are a historian. how have we gotten to this moment and how a crisis moments of american history? >> great question, thank you. first i went to express my opinion just as jeff and page have so many of these have come to join the conversation we're going to have a q&a. i went to greet our c-span audience leisure here in the auditorium and disc appreciate the discussion we have moving forward. a little background statement before directly answer your question page and i were talking about this earlier today we are involved you and i are involved fortunate more than just a job. it's regarded as a civilizational mission.

we have this opportunity and we talk a lot at the ford presidential foundation about the fact that ignorance of democracy perhaps is one of the greatest dangers to our democracy. it's a shame when two things happen, it is a shame when don't even believe they have a voice in our democracy so why would they bother to get' involved? what would they bother to vote if they don't feel they have a voice in the first place? and that something some of the work from our colleagues at the presidential museum have been doing a great job of empowering people so that they have a voice and then they feel motivated to get involved and engaged. that begins the long and romantic and a wonderful adventure of learning about this democracy and their role in it and their capacity as citizens to make changes that are needed to respond to the things they

need to see. to make their lives better and make our communities better. so historically we have very tense times in american history. i do not think this is the worst. let's get this out we have civil war between 1861 and 1865 serious, serious decades of squandered opportunities and attention especially as we moved west we could not resolve the issue of slavery would be taken west. however growing today think about this a little bit of an analogy there. we are opening our borders we have accepted a much more diverseop population that we hae ever had in our history which presents a great opportunity and great challenges. but the debates around those opportunities to echo h some the things we heard in the 1850s the

1840s we had a know nothing party you had this party that wanted to cocoon ourselves as americans and keep everybody else out and excluded. i do not think that is an option anymore. we are at a point in our debate and of course we want controlled immigration. of course. but immigration were going to have is in the nature of our country. that is historical analogy that would come from previous times. also, presidential elections let me tell you folks, between adams ander jefferson, those were so colorful and interesting. we are boring by comparison as we say in texas i guarantee it is a lot more interesting in those days. you had a media in those days that were really stoking the

fires of the federalists hit ing the democratic republicans and vice a versa. pfizer paid with thomas jefferson and john adams supervising that mediate production of these articles that were blatant lies. so we have had some rough times for the 1960s were some just old enough to remember a bit of it. >> you got a good laugh at that one. >> that is right. that iss rights. the 1960s were really interesting. because what i remember, i had a brother graduate from the airad force academy so he is flanked s and the vietnam era. that has a weight of riveting your attention when there's a lot of civil unrest a lot of antiwar protests. that was a period of great protest the college i went to had old main burned down in 1970 there is a a lot of discretion. we worry about seattle and portland and some of those things that have happened. ladies and gentlemen a lot of

you also from the 1960s we remember there's a lot of unrest. we had three prominent americans assassinated for pete's sake. now a lot of people are predicting the rough a passage as we entered this new. but as a historian i won't mention one thing briefly. i think we underestimates the impact. a couple things but one i want to mention it right now. that great recession of 2008 ani 2009 exposed to so much of the inequality in our country. people feeling you had the finance sector they weren't manipulatingd things and rippig off the rest of the country had the sweetheart deals no one goes to prison and that kind of thing. 2008,en 2009 you see the tea pay movement come out.

you occupy wall street remember how tense that was just 11 years ago. and after that have bernie sanders on the left and donald trump on the right. and remember what happened in michigan everyone in michigan during the primary, on the democratic side, who won? bernie sanders. we were to talk about this yesterday a fair fight if the clintons had not been so much and control the process bernie sanders would haveib a good possibility being our president. he would have certainly been the nominee in the democratic party at thatan time and then trump coming down the escalator and intercountry's never been the same. populism has arisen in a weight populism is also not new but speak at historians here let's put this in perspective we had populism 1992 pat buchanan and ross perot.

it populism back in the 1930s this is not new. we should not be shocked that this happened this periodically happens in american history when the average feel they've gotten the shaft it's hard to raise your family it's hard to keep a job it's hard to get ahead. >> one thing to study populist movements in american history they tend to arise with his great skepticism about the so-called elites. that is a a term we hear thrown around white eight lot. the perception is the elites are whoever they are our corrupt they are running this country to their own advantage and not to the advantage or the interest of the average american. what do you think of those times of claims to think as a coterie of elites running things to

their own interests? >> historically as you point out it happens when people feel they are otherwise not being heard and it becomes a popular movement. it's a popular movement against an existing income but usually. what tends to do is empower people but only certain p peopl. only people you can plug into that dopamine that that person e needs to fill their voice is finally being elevated and heard. and so you put that on coming from atlanta which is the island of blue and a sea of red. you know what happens outside the big city. the populism and the populist movement happens because of that. i would say that what concernsat

me is the hollowing out of our institution in our liberal democracy. because of the only argument you have is that i don't like what they are doing you start other young people that is the other side does that. we are the united states of america and we are supposed of actual liberal democracy where people believe in institutions. they believes and checks and balances an executive power or representatives, judicial if you start hollowing out those institutions you are not left with much. i think that's what concerns me most you see it in europe andrl the certainly sought in the netherlands. you see people tapping into this vein of anger and you have to find ways to talk at the end of that mco of the carter center of a wife, mother, a daughter there

are other places i can have abconversations they're not just about politics are not just about the carter center. you've got to find ways to have these conversations otherwise your other your neighbor. as we are running into right now. >> how do you think the relationship between ford and carter provide a model for exactly what page was just talking about? >> even he works for me it swer i did not tell the pitcher softball. [laughter] brexit think is looking for a raise. [laughter] we are going to have fun. we are going to have fun. >> oh my gosh, where do you begin with this very interesting relationship between governor carter and vice president and president ford? they have modeled what so many of us need these days. if you look at a relationship

that began a little rough, remember they were fierce rivals as governorr carter went to the primary process the democratic party and emerged as the candidates he sharpened his attacks on president ford on some of them we were talking earlier tonight let's take one example because i am a historian i like to pop preconceived notions. let's take the debate remember president ford stumbled and said there is no soviet domination of eastern europe how many of you remember that? if you go upstairs that is one of the beautiful things about gerry ford is every weakness, everything that showed a vulnerability it's up there in that museum. when his cabinet and the people around him would say why would you have these expressions of your weakness there?

he would always say because history matters. people need to know the truth. we are fallible. president carter of course would take advantage of that. but let's just say for the record, as a little sidebar here governor carter would take advantage of that. president ford had recentlyy ben to the vatican and met with pope paul the sixth it also been behind then iron curtain countries he had spoken to people impacted by the soviet empire. what he meant to say, can you still hear me? okay we are having a mike issue. all right thank you. what he meant to say was there is no spiritual domination of the soviet empire over eastern european and of course he was vindicated by at 79,ha 80, 81 gd

solidarity you had people at the beginning of the velvet revolution this is something page could speak to because she was in prague in those years around 90 and 92. we were talking about that earlier. that's an important correction or adjustment to make it. but of course governor carter is going to take advantage of that faux pas. now they go through very close election. president ford is down more than 20 points in the polling. and in the campaigning at doesn't look like he has a chance he scrapes and closed his way back. at the 1.1 gallup poll shows him for a lead the week before the election but alas he did not have enough time because the polls were going back and forth and on tuesday when they voted governor carter one. and from that point on governor

carterer it was very, very gracious. you feel a little emotionally flat right now? let me tell you what will give a lump in your throat. you go upstairs there are three places were governor carter now president carter speaks his friend gerry ford. one of the most famous of course is on generate 20 , 77 president carter has been sworn in and is ad g his inaugural address. one of the first things he does is he says i want to thank my predecessor, president ford for doing so much to heal our land. he pivots president born stands they shake hands' beautiful beal moments in her lifetime present

for thanks him, sits back down you see carter collecting himself. now fast forward to 2007. fast-forward to the moment when president carter is give the eulogy for his friend and president carter at the climax of that eulogy says i cannot think of a better way to talk about my friend gerry then to repeat theor words repeated so many decades ago. i want to think, you can tell is clutching, since i went to thank my friend for doing all he did to heal our land. this iteration is what a great clinical friendship is about. political carter said this me but i love this line. president carteret and president ford were on stage together and were asked about their

friendship. president carter said of all of the former presidents, we had the best friendship of any of them. including adams and jefferson. [laughter] look at what they overcame. how did this happen? page can speak beautifully to this as well. it happened because at the core of both of these human beings was a heart of gold. a stoic character, unshakable integrity, a sense of fair dealing and decency. integrity that would take them through all of their public life in their private lives. this is what allowed them to become friends. they knew they could trust eachl other. there is another little display up there. i note you have seen is about the posterior presidency andin president carter is interviewed. we have the interview g go to te museum and see it.

they will give you a first-class tour. president carter is asked, did you have any serious differences with president ford? president carter said no. fundamentally i do not have any major disagreements with any decision president ford made as president. and this helps explain -- president four was known to deregulate. the government had a lot of rules and regulations back in the early and mid- 70s and he said to deregulate. carter picked right up. and raggett became president and took all of the credit. [laughter] the d regulation started with carter absolutely. there are a number of things president carter and president carter is keeping president ford and all the briefings the monthly briefings in fact he said to the former president whenever you are in washington

d.c. i will go back to washington to speak and teach in the classroom and he was a member of american enterprise institute whenever you are back you are welcome to have a lunch with me in the white house anytime. and this wonderful friendship arose. here i want page to pick it up she can tell the next installment of an airplane trip and what happened in the post- presidency. i >> to bring this back to modern day we are in the middle of debate season. so tonight, tamara and i can't member, tonight. when you go home and watch it having been taped or if you are watching it remember governor carter and president ford when they were on stage governor carter always said my distinguished opponent's view is that he always said my distinguished opponent.

as the civility between them even when they were running against each other. and so that just gives you an understanding when two men are running for the highest office in the land that there is a way to do it with civility. president carter tells an interesting story when sadat died president carter, president ford and president nixon were on the plane together to go to the funeral this is incredibly awkward. but he and president ford started talking and hours went by and they did not stop. they continued theer conversati. from that point on , 83 on they did 25 events together. president carter was here, president ford was down in atlanta and it was because they respected each other and they knew there post- presidency would define them and to be post- presidency they had limited terms.

and so i think that is -- i was here last summer we had not met yet. a couple of my colleagues were with me and us that's run across to the museum i went to see the ford museum i drop my card at the front i said please let me know the ceo of the carter center is here but we started making our way through and we stopped right at the election and they foundep it we got swept away and started talking. i went back today so i could see it happen after the election. i kind of knew but not entirely. and to have an opportunity to see also what president ford was very much in line with what president carterer did. we talked to help president ford grew up a mother ran away from

her husband whose father you just do back then. it is like i was a peanut farmer he did not wear shoes until he was eight years old. so you realize they both came from very similar backgrounds villages, small towns in the highest office in the land. they took that to mean something after they left office. that is what we are trying to emulate and i wish we could see a little bit more of that in america right now. they really set a standard that ford continues to try to live up too. >> and r2 institutions we are committed to that r2 institutions are committed to that this is why we signed on ta wonderful initiative with carter center for candidate principles with good elections -- elections of integrity and fair elections.

page can address that more. i do want to say about that plane trip it was awkward until nixon left that part two. >> you wanted a diversion. >> once it nixon left the seating area or presidents ford and carter were everything calm down and they could resume because nixon was kind of dominating and talking about foreign policy and all that stuff. but the other thing we need to say here is in that friendship some so many commonalities they discover about each other. look at their family structure three boys and one girl. service in the navy. a whole lot of things in common that they took pride in the parade the forts were very involved in the episcopalian church the corridors of course southern baptist church. they just enjoy a lot of the same things togetherhi they connected as people.

that also meant the first ladies connected. and everybody in this room of course knows betty story first about the breast cancer in the revolution she achieved in women's history almost single-handedly in the fall of 1974 when she made it safe for women and our society to talk about breast cancer at the dinner table it was a taboo subject and a lot of awkwardness at the dinner table about this. after betty ford, her interviews, 60 minutes and newsweek this country change in the blink of an eye. and the other thing was of course mrs. carter is the first lady of georgia and as the first lady of the united states was interested in the issues of people with mental health problems with disease and struggles. and then during the carter

administration it came out mrs. ford had these addictions and that was the second thing. all of the set it she made it possible for people, for families but think about the families and you talk about the addiction that were destroying their families. think of all of the families that were change that now there could be an honest conversation about these things again mrs. ford and mrs. carter found each other in that conversation. they became very close they always had something to work on and talk about. >> the mental health issues much like addiction this country has gone through the opioid crisis people talk about that now but they weren't 40 years ago that was not a conversation. the same thing with a mental illness. when people are having a mental health crisis -- but she worked so hard to destigmatize the conversation it was notvi until

covid where it became stigmatized. it's could talk about when the children were going through. what parents were going through with the elderly were going through. both of them were trailblazers just in the 21st century we are now seeing conversations at the dinner table. and our conversations that were supported both the men had strong wives. they had strong mothers. that conversation was allowed to happen in their households there were not allowed in my grandparents and my parents households. >> it's a very good description of how the friendship evolved and why it evolve the wayay it did. so something different than friendship. you drew our attention to things they already had in common. the politics in some ways is about discovering goods that you

can pursue in common with each other. for a lot of peoplee that seems to beat what's missing in our political moment. it's finding people on both sides of the aisle willing to identify a good set to be pursued and in common with each other. you think the world was different for them back then were they confined to those things that transcended party interest or self interest is that devolved into a conflict of what's good and what is right? >> that is a tough one. that day and age is different than where we are now. a with the social media people's ability to exist in an echo chamber now what they want to hear you did not have that back in the 70s and 80s. he picked up eight newspaper, you talk to your neighbor but you were not bombarded constantly with having seen this

story by e-mail or facebook or news. and so their commonality because we had limited bandwidth to the information that we had. that was not fiction. facts ors. facts and everyone accepted the fact for what was presented to them. but now there are so many facts out there it's hard to tell what is fact and what is fiction. i think back to the conversations about pick up a phone call someone versus forwarding an e-mail or click activism was an interesting issue i want to make sure i gett involved in that and sign up for this or sign up for this event. once that happened those are all you're going to hear you are not going to hear anything on the other side. to have the commonality whethero it's in breast cancer, mental

health, defines weakness and you talk about it together and digging in. it's a hard time to compare because we listen to what we listen too. it's part of the joys of being socially connected and able to reach out to people. it's a curse as well. >> i sort of agree with that. page, i think a lots about how our society has changed because of social media. my wife has been in media for 40 years and her whole career but we talk about this thing a lot at the dinner table. if you look at a bell curve of our society the hump of the bell the center access we are where most peoplee are. look at the details of what has happened if you look at the survey of what happened to our population.

you want short tales on a bell curve that mean people are way out in the extremes, you want them really short. what has happened in the last 10 or 15 years? statistically those tales have gotten really long. that means we have extremists out there that are virtually unreachable and why did this happen? extremists now have a voice through social media as you just said no extremists in human history of had before. that's the news bulletin for this historian that is unprecedented. think about that. extremists were the quaint uncle at your thanksgiving dinner and everybody thought that's uncle ted and he's just being uncle ted. whereas now they can reach millions of people. i like to look at our work what

you are doing at the carter and we are doing at the ford. if you look at that hump and coy about the tilt were not going to reach those folks on the left and the right at the extremes. but there is a zone in their assault in the heart of the bell it's on the margins but not out there on the tales. those are the americans who working and saving and pulling in the norms of our culture to the amazing history the redemptive country that we have two find if they do have a voice that counts in the election integrity you've all done so much good work on to fight for that and believe in it. that's a sociology lectureha tonight. we have to be clear about where we do have agency and make a difference. and bring those t folks in the margins in. >> you suggest there's still a

rather large consensus among the population of this country that transcends the political divisions. what is o the nature of that consensus? if you thinkin about there beina middle in the country whatt are the thingshe that they agree on sadly they agree to disagree more than anything else as other the other side i am co i'm also a wife, a mother, a daughter there are conversations.he you can find a space where you can have that conversation. i think at the end of the day everyone is voted with their pocketbook. they're concerned whether it's their taxes, whether it is a medicare, whether it is security, people are going to voteun that. so how do have a conversation

around that? the politicians don't they like barry that. it becomes a non- policy discussion. they find areas that are among the extreme. i heard the voting boxes changing my vote. part of what the candidate principle we are working on together and you can look it up it's called principled candidates.org. you can see having candidates say they're going to adhere to the election that regardless who wins they can pursue legal battles up until a certain point. they're going to adhere to the results. we have this in georgia had stacey abrams who did not necessarily concede the election

bryant cap signed it. we know and that happened we would be able to say they signed it. we had 60 candidates throughout the u.s. that was just when we launch right before the election. and now we are going full on with the forward, the carter center, the baker institute, with the mccain institute. all of this is to say we want to hold as we said in her op-ed last year people want their politicians to be held accountable to be adults. i think as issues come out they will get raised during this campaign season but it is watching for the tail wagging the dog. i wanted to the squishy middle not straight in the middle but on theca sides are people who voted one way and the last election and won't do that again and vice versa people switch

sides just sharing facts ineducating people making sure they understand about their votes and i don't know if you're going to ask about bigger voting issues to be 10,000 election jurisdictions in the united states, 10,000. georgia itself we have one or 59 counties second only to texas paid 159 counties that have different elections rules. some close at seven, six of them somehave drop boxes some don't. tbesides how you vote with the actual ballot when you walk in, all the systems are the same. people feel disenfranchised they cannot access it because when i was in macon i voted this way and i could vote after work up until 7:00 p.m. but apparently you can't do that in savannah. it is wonderful it is decentralized states have the ability to do it.

but it is also a curse because without that centralization you do not have control in in 40 countries that we work in there is a central election commission. you know people are misbehaving you know who to blame and the commission hold them accountable for that's just not how it works in the u.s. the good news is you cannot hack every election across the united states at the same time because they are alsoo different. the bad news is some of them can get hacked and they could be importantt ones and people can't vote as easily as they should be able t too. those are things we have to actually pull together and make sure people understand how you vote in your neighborhood, how that happens how your voice can be heard. >> is, a really interesting pointthat is the mechanics of hg an election. the united states is dictated by the states not by the federal government. so you would have to have a constitutional amendment to

change something like that. given the unlikely that there will ever be a constitutional aramendment how would the carter center and their actions operate in all these different jurisdictions you have to operate with. how could you possibly cover all the territory? >> president carter and president ford started together with the federal election commission. it's a federal reform commission. and they came up with some suggestions. and so help america vote act was put in place. but it took 18 years before they started putting federal funding into it. the reality is states cannot necessarily afford to do all of this on their own. there are seven states that do

not have a civics curriculum in the united states. if you are starting at the lowest level of elementary school students there is no required civics curriculum. and in the state only puts in five per students, 50 cents for stem and stem is important but at the end of the day 5 cents for civics is not going to have you raising citizens who understand how voting works or understands how democracy works. so when they get to voting age and arizona all use as an example the county people heard about that. saber ninjas came in because they wanted to recount the ballots. people will worry like what happened in arizona. they took all the machines off property off the election facility redo and recount the votes. now the accounting cannot use those machines anymore they went

outside the building. no one knows what might have happened they have millions of dollars that residents are going to have to pay to get new machines that are safe and secure. we have a state that's responsible for running its own elections and you don't have the federal funds between 2018 and 2020 to $1.3 billion as federal funds pushed into the elections because it was covid, they were worried about the russians the 2016 election $1.3 billion between 2022 and 2024 only put 70 millionon in. that leaves his dark money coming in to try to help elections. but as the federal government's not going to take responsibility for which is again what president ford and president carter suggested in 2004 houses going to get paid for? it comes. down to the states a budget they have to decide

between education and voting. i comes down to dark money, and who is paying for money to going to train election administrators and officials. we have money to do that. but we have gotten vilified in the press using chinese spies to train people how to do elections in fulton county. figure out how to run an election in a way the states have control but they are also supported by the senate. >> these long-standing structural issues are quite concerning because we do not seem to be able to get a handle on just a couple of things. president ford in his interviews is when he was working on. he would say the two things that rip off the american voters is gerrymandering and money overwhelming congressional

districts on the outside. that would be to account for the latter. president ford would like to think of our country having balanced populations in every congressional district so the voters would hear a full airing of the issues. so they keep growing and growing which is what has happened in our democracy. that means more and more americans have sorted themselves in the not hearing the full debate. that really does rip off the voter.ca the voter does not have a choice in california you might havewh 20 million people say 25 million people voting and 13 million are voting for one candidate 12 million may be voting for the other. but they did not hear the full debate. and that is what hurts them. president ford was parentally

worried about that. we have got to change our habits in this country structurally. >> i think we would like to have some time for the audience to ask questions as well. if you would like to ask a question, please raise your hand. we will bring you a microphone so people on the zoom can hear you as well. >> thank you very much for a very inspiring discussion so inspiring remembering the 60s i get teary when you talk about it. [laughter] it is not enough to go back and say things were better it's not enough to goe back and say this used to be worse. where is the hope in her current situation? >> you stole my last question. >> are going to try to end on something. the hope is people care about democracy in the care about

voting. we have more people voting younger voters coming out the facts people care about this is very important. i will also say ambassador susan page is hear s from the universy of michigan and is on our board when she was ambassador she said she had a wonderful comment she made july 4 overseas. even though our democracy is iself evident it's not necessarily self enforcing. and so we cannot take advantage of what we have. we actually have to participate in it' people are realizing that now and that is great. there is like climate you're killing the world usually my kids are telling everything we have done wrong, my generation is routing the world for them but it means they're going to get out and participate on so that is fine, that is why i am 'hopeful.

>> we have been really lucky in this community to have a number of members on our board of trustees are the foundation who are committed to education. think of people like doug devos, peter, hank meyer and others. others are really concerned. the greatest threats as the ignorance of democracy or not having a voice in that democracy. i am proud of the efforts of my predecessors who have done so much to bring 10, 12000 kids a year through our museum and make sure they are aware of how the democracy works yes the mechanics but more importantly it's a people at the end of the day. people of character necessary to be part of that work. i have a lotat of people in the rising generation whether it's

the devos learning center and art curricula there whether it's through the leadership forum jeff is the director of that effort for the college students and young professionals in the continuing education you are all lifelong learners. you will talk to your grandkids you will talk to your neighbors. i have the hope right here. does that flatter you enough? [laughter] >> if i can abuse my position here just briefly to address your question nicholas back to something we were talk about earlier. democracy are inherently fragile systems ofte government they are incredibly difficult to operate precisely because there fragile they are resilient. if you look at american history you see these crisis these periods of crisis end up generating this resiliency. we have hope and need resiliency

we have a nasty habit of bouncing back from her own mistakes. >> just to address the issue of hope that youur spoke to and our own state of michigan in the last five years largely based in the grand rapids area create independent redistricting for our legislative districts in th state. and as a result of those efforts our legislature closely the democratic republican divide in our state that we had in the past when gerrymandering was still the rule today. one thing on that because gerrymandering -- the united

states is so interesting because our election officials most of our election officials are elected to office. they are part of this to begin with for the very beginning. we have secretaries of state that are republican or democrat. a nonpersonal drop on the election itself. purity of the 2020 election were republicans in georgia. this is how the vote went in arizona we saw people speaking out. the gerrymandering is something two thirds of americans don't believe in political processes on redistricting. 50% do not understand they are done in a interesting way that's different than north carolina. i think there are models that

can be used and i would like to see the u.s. learn from itself. >> first of all i thank you. [inaudible] basically i say wake up america. [inaudible]

>> is there a question? none on please state your question. can you tell me why. [inaudible] and why. [inaudible] >> thank you for your question. >> i think if you read about the instances that you have mentioned you will find that in certain places it works in this area but if you actually watch the entire video you can see those are not hidden ballots.

it's hard i'm happy have a conversation with you afterkn words. i believe in what you saw and what you believe in. it's just something different than the courts have believed i have seen but i'm happy to talk with you after words. >> i would just add correct me if i'm wrong, 65 court cases that sort of indicated the system worked. >> and it recounts. numerous recounts for a quick f. >> not to say there are problems and that's not to say there is some fraud. but the scale of the fraud was not great enough according to these court cases to overturn the election. >> there were 13 improperly cast ballots that came out of the georgia election. that was after three recounts. there are human mistakes that happen. >> any questions? >> here the term democracy being used over and over again but

rarely the term republic. i was always taught the united states was a republic not a democracy. i'ms wondering if the panel coud address that and clarify that for us? >> i love that question that's an excellent question because it's historically accurate. our founders were actually afraid of democracy said they contain the democratic elements. they can either have a authoritarian element they can have an aristocratic element they can have a democratic elements. in article two of the constitution they gave a presidency a little bit morer power than they originally entered the debates that count on george washington be the president. frankly it came down to a character issue of george washington. they gave the element to the

supreme court, the senate, the six year c terms they contained the democratic elm and house of representatives. ofsaid it mixed a form of government a mix constitution all of the interest that would arise the different elements would counter each other. that was eight republican form of government. also you had the representative element because the rubber so many republics in the ancient world were much smaller. as a result of that people could go and talk to each other in areas when writing a horse is far-flung. once you got to the united states the modern era the area covered is so huge you have to have representative government and this constitution. in fact we are a constitutional republic technically. you're absolutely right, thank you for great question. but the political philosopher

appear. >> that is a complicated story. that was really the debate whether we were creating a republican form of government or not. the critics of the constitution criticize the document for not being sufficiently republican. the argument you can see or hear be careful what you wish for. federalist nine hamilton argues a big innovation in american politics is a science of representation. they understand how representation works. and when you think about it that is an enormous you have representative government. and federalist 10 that system of representation requires an extended republic. the critics of the constitution this could only work on a small

scale.ok madison says but if you look at all of the republics in the past is a phrase is they are short of their lives of the art violence. that is what he is trying to avoid he thanks the way to avoid that is to extend the government over greater territory and more people the grid of the population. inof the solve the problems the representation. >> have nothing to add on the federalist papers unless it is sung in hamilton. my hope is is a next-generation the whole federalist papers we learned all of that. >> have just got to say speaking of hamilton here's your homework assignment. i hope everybody in this room goes home and reads a very short federalist paper, written by hamilton. where hamilton talks about the

virtue of modern moderation. it is an excellent overview of how our constitutional republic should work and it sets the stage for the following 84 federalist papers about moderation should be the guiding principle. quickset's right of the federalist papers in the discussion then going to rise how we are going to live together peacefully. that is a homework assignment. >> the other part of your homework assignment is apparently to learn something about this taylor swift person. [laughter] >> there's a question, what time is it? [inaudible]

quick she had a question two. >> i work at polling places for number of years as chairperson. i always look for absentee ballots as a place where you could make mischief. whpeople keep talking about recounts when the issue seems to me too be people who should not have been able to vote have voted. last-minute rule changes nobody seems to have addressed that. recounts seem to be ridiculous after a while. but the switches bothered me. >> switching mid election season is something that is difficult. let me give you anecdotally what i thought. when the carter center was asked to be that nonpartisan server the georgia election in 2020

county was owned by trauma 76%. it was d the largest county in dekalb was the second largest county. i watch the recounts in each of these places. being in the small county in georgia in north georgia i watch them counting the absentee ballots there is a democrat and a republican sitting at a table at which i'm sure you all had to hear. don't hold up the ballot and look because someone always would write the absentee belts with little different. what was intended by this? the difference is, and georgia when absentee ballots were mailed in don't forget we all of his secret ballot you do not wear personal information to be there. as a bureau oftu investigation would look at the signature on the envelope.

if the signature it was verified that open the envelope the envelope would go one place the absentee belt would go another place so they can be counted. you did separated. there was the question of i want to see signatures. that became thetu rally cry howo we know the signatures were valid? how do wee know these people really vote? all the envelopes are kept t separately by the georgia bureau ofof investigation so you could determine everyone who's counted here had a matching signature. the signature matches a big deal. whether or not someone was a registered at that address without signature is done ahead of time and the votes are counted. so when you have a recount you look at it separately. the rule changes are very difficult. even during covid was not necessarily that high that it could have change the election anything funny had happened.

but i watch how the sins were counted physically. the documentary in 2000 tuba. >> we can have that conversation later. [laughter] [inaudible] [inaudible] >> i would like to take this opportunity to thank our panelists and thank you pages so much for coming to grand rapids. weeknights at nine easter easten c-span's encore presentation of a 10 part series books that shaped america c-span partner

with the library of congress of key pieces of literature had a profound impact on our country. tonight we will feature 1937 novel their eyes were watching god. the story of stuff southern florida during the jim crow era our guest is tiffany ruby patterson professor of history at vanderbilt university author of southern life. watch encore presentation of books that shaped america weeknights on c-span or go to c-span.org/books that shaped america to vw the series and learn more about each book featured. >> book tv on c-span2 features leading authors discuss in their latest nonfiction books. at 8:00 p.m. eastern university professor shares his book big fiction book publishing monopolies have changed the art

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