washington journal continues.

host: our next guest is ken cuccinelli, founder of never back down a super pac found -- supporting ron desantis and then he served as the truck -- in the trump foundation. thank you for giving us your time. guest: my pleasure and good to be with you. host: mr. camp cuccinelli thank you for giving us our you for

getting a search and how do you cling to people but that they worked for the former president and yet you are not endorsing him this time around? >> yeah needless to say it's a question i get a lot but i was the acting deputy secretary at the department of homeland security and work closely with president trump. and i don't dislike him and i'm not in the anti-trump category that i saw how much more effectively could have been with better leadership and better decision-making and more follow through and more determination frankly. i believe that ron desantis has all of those traits. he's demonstrated them as the governor of florida to these done so very effectively through some of the most difficult circumstances that governors have faced certainly in our lifetimes and he has shined effectively in a way that i believe would provide great national leadership. idi give you one example. while we worry about the national debt driving inflation and really getting out of

control but we are losing control of our government because of the budget deficit. at the same time the governor of florida, governor desantis has reduced for this debt at 25%. i think they have now achieved the status as the lowest debt per-capita in the whole country. he's leaving florida in a positive direction that is the opposite of the federal government and that's one of those areas where president trump to increase the debt by more than any other president, does not look good on the scorecard if you will. for people like me who care about long-term fiscal sustainability and what we are passing to our children, that's a very important issue. it's only one and we are going to talk about immigration i believe governor desantis would be more effective on immigration than president trump was and certainly than biden is. biden has openedsi the door and

implemented an open border policy.en i do get out having worked with the president why am i not supporting him and part of it is my experience working with him has led me to look for a better option and i believe that ron desantis is a much better option i hope the people of iowa this coming monday agreed as they trudge through the snow to vote in our caucuses. we will leave the world of polling on monday and get to the world of voting which is what really counts. as they say in sports, that's why they play the game. we will find out how that operates. the subject we are going to talk about today come immigration there are several major differences between what president desantis would do versus what a president trump is willing to do. that would secure the border and actually get us -- i was listening to good chunk of the last show and people were

interested, why won't congress address this problem? i think if you secured the border you have prepared the political environment to move forward with actual immigration reform which i don't think anybody doubts. we need, we'll have different ideas and what that might look like. it won't happen until the border is secure and under joe biden we have gotten the opposite, literally throwing the doors open and intentionally implementing an open borders policy. it's brought now over 10 million people illegally to the country. >> i want to talk about governor desantis for a secondn to talk about school -- scorecards going into iowa this weekend. what did the campaign results to determine how much further he goes? >> well, the governor will decide that himself and i work with the super pac for your viewers that means i don't work with the campaign.

i support the governor's efforts, foreign since we have just not knocked on their 3 millionth door talking to individual voters and almost a million of those in iowa. other early states as well. we have also run their own ads in the communications effort to try to encourage people to support governor desantis but i don't get to talk to the campaign directly. my own opinion is that he had to perform above expectations any us to show that he can compete with president trump and iowa. that is the key, a showing competitiveness with president trump. if it's close from first to second and there's a big distance or third place then we will know this is a one-on-one race between desantis and trump and i think that would change the dynamics are the rest of the contest.

other states new hampshire and nevada and so forth on down to super tuesday is the big one march 5. my home state of virginia votes with 15 states that will vote that day. the next two months will go a long way to determining if not completely determining who the republican nominee will be to face i joe biden in the fall ani think america is ready for that change and i hope it will be ron desantis because there's no question based on his record, 10 years of consistent performance and great leadership as governor that he is the best prepared to be the best president of the united states come january of 2025. >> viewers will continue the conversation with ken cuccinelli and we will going to open forum at 9:00. if your want to ask her guess questions not only about governor desantis

(202)748-8000 democrats 2-027-488-0001. text is the (202)748-8003. mr. cuccinelli talked about the very people in the contest and for your own personal concerns what your thoughts about how nikki haley factors in to governor desantis' chance for success? >> certainly she factors him. she can't be the nominee. there are three buckets of voters the people who would vote for president trump no matter why and people who will vote against president trump no matter what and i welcome back to that in a moment and then there are people like me who like policies that we saw implemented under president trump and i don't have a personalal problem with the president. believe that it's time to move on to better leadership. she cannot compete with thatnn

category voters and it's about one third, one third, one third and the republican nominating an electorate. r she has no poll with folks who want to see strong border security and traditionally have been fiscally conservative. she has a track record of being expansive in the foreign-policy area neocon pro war. that's not a popular position for republican voters they stay so i don't see away for her to compete with the president in that middle bucket. back to the anti-trump agenda those folks will vote for whomever they believe will beat president trump which is why it's important for governor desantis to be able to demonstrate that he can compete and defeat president trump and iowa and it will be obvious that if nikki haley is not in the race that ron desantis would

win those votes and thus beat president trump. nikki haley doesn't really have that task. the sooner that this is understood to be a one-on-one race the more likely it is that governor desantis will select enough delegates to be president trump on the first ballot when the national convention rolls around. >> a call from earl. on the line for republicans you're on with ken cuccinelli the founder of never backed down down -- never back down. >> thank you for letting me call. mr. cuccinelli i am so disgusted with republicans why they cannot see that mr. trump has been picked on since he was present and he'sen done a good job and they are trying to get people not to vote.

we want democracy. we want honesty and trump has not. he's done everything he said he was going to do andd you guys need to get something done. we got to try to run this country. half of them can't even pronounce their names. >> okay erlan indiana. >> well girl, a couple of things. first on president trump he did not doo everything he said he would do and i will use some examples. he said he would prosecute hillary clinton for breaking the law which he didn't and within days of the election he said she is a nice late and we don't need to do that. that's his prerogative as president but then to complain now that people are being selectively prosecuted by the people he hired princeton's c christopher wray who added to the deep state and let it grow and metastasize that the failure of what he said he was going to

do. he said he was going to build the wall and he didn't even start building it until his fourth year in earnest and he had a republican congress for the first two years. he was not tough or as tough as he could have been on the border. he was the toughest we have enough while that both he and joe biden sent the military to the border for example and it was for show. they didn't do anything. in the trump administration they helped process people at back of the border patrol and they didn't stop a person -- a single person from invading the country but he didn't do what he said he would do and he didn't go after the cartel. he didn't balance the budget which he promised to do instead he gave us more debt than any other president in history. these are reasons i support ron desantis because the president failed to do these very important things that in fact he did promise to do. i would agree with you that the border needs to be closed. one difference between governor

desantis and what president trump isen willing to do is that governor desantis is said he's willing to to send the military toid the border to close the border between the legal ports of entry so that everyone coming into this country has become through legal ports of entry. i do immigration think tank work. we are going to put a paper on the next few weeks speaking to the military as a tool to close the border. it's perfectly legal and constitutional for president to do that. there's controversy about it. there's no controversy that president trump was afraid to do and governor desantis is prepared to do it. i appreciate your comments and i do think president trump did good things including the border but he didn't do the things he promised to do and if so i've would support them for an election again but i believe we

do better with governor desantis and he will do more to get this task done while balancing the budget and leading our country in a tumultuous world. i look forward to those votes being passed and i hope that's the way it ends up but as they say that's way they play the game and will see what voters have a say. >> suzanne from new york on the democrats line you are on with kens cuccinelli. >> thank you for taking my call pedro. question everyone talks about the border but we don't talk about what it means. we have talked about a brick-and-mortar wall 2000 miles across the tex-mex border. >> , sorry about that. you have to watch the language that it bars the approach mr. cuccinelli referencing the biden administration if you want to elaborate on that.

>> yeah so and are asked what do we mean by secure border. the law defines it. a secure border is knowing everyone who's crossing the border. will we ever get to 100% of that text probably not 100% that we haven't made a serious effort to get close to it. i d don't think that's going to happen and i agree with the caller that we are going to see 2000 miles of wall built from the pacific to the gulf of mexico. that alone doesn't solve the problem. we need the manpower behind that border with the political will to stop people from entering into return those who come in illegally. weo don't have that and we didt have that under president trump and we would have that under president desantis and i do believe the most cost-effective way to closeha that border and o reach that level of security is the use of the military, to deploy them from texas to

california in those areas where we know the cartels are trafficking people across the border and let's not forget it is the cartels that drives the traffic. they make money off the traffic. they have monetized joe biden's open border policy to make aliensns of dollars killed thousands of people a year cross this hemisphere and that's something we are contributing to this open border policy. and i go in the other direction saying securing the border helps to fund the cartel that helps to have a president who's willing to get after them. president biden has not done that president trump did not do that and the president desantis has promised he would do exactly that. >> how much of governor desantis h strategy and working with other countries in their efforts to impose a level of

migration? >> that's a critical element that he is spoken to. there are been. to time and in the trump administration will we have cooperation from mexico guatemala honduras and salvador it made an enormous difference. it can be rough how to get that cooperation especially from mexico with the president there who frankly is facilitating right now the illegal immigration across this country into ours. but when they cooperate to help slow it down it makes an enormous difference. if mexico knew that no one was going to be able to freely traverse mexico into the united states in other words they are stuck in the northern part of mexico i thinkxi mexico would guard its southern border of lot more tightly. it has a very small southern border relative to the u.s.-mexico border. that border has its own

challenges. just by way of example it's a whole lot easier to cover that small amount of territory than the nearly 2000 miles between the united states and mexico. >> southernn california on the independent line. >> at morning gentlemen. mr. cuccinelli in your own words for everybody listening and watching you could you please defined woke? woke? >> woke. >> i would find woke as describing a cultural push to par policies like diversity and inclusiveness and equality as they are described as the workoutt they tend to end up discriminating against whether it's reverse discrimination against people are asian discrimination for example at

harvard and the local high school where the governor's school and it is prioritizing the political correctness that goes alongg with it over profis from companies as we have seen with disney and budweiser and so forthh or forcing political conformity like we see at universities and most of the country but i would note this is something that governor desantis has this worked with import including higher education which in my view is a conservative is the most difficult institution the most determinedly left-wing communist institution in the united states andte i have often wondered whether b it could be fixed. i believe governor desantis has shown in florida that it can be fixed and we can get away from the indoctrination that goes with woke this and come

back to education with a free exchange of ideas, all ideas including ideas people may not like which is the best way to refute them and bring them out into the open and have those discussions. i would define what that way but it's easier toat define it in particular segments with its pabusiness education and so forh but it's a major problem that goes hand-in-hand with political correctness and to push in that direction which has been so distressing for this country. mr. cuccinelli this week on capitol hill that will be an effort to start the impeachment of the homeland security secretary alejandro meyer chris. what do you think of that? >> certainly he was hired to implement an open borders policy that is intentional on the part of president joe biden. as i mentioned earlier we have now passed over 10 million people who across that border

illegally in the joe biden administration. which is what mayorkas is responsible for. part of the problem with mayorkas is the lies about what he's doing under oath to congress and that's impeachable and also there is simply the destructiveness of the policies he is pursuing. we see this on a bipartisan basis and you see it airs on the governor hobbes democrat who has been complaining about these policies of the biden administration. we have seen sanctuary city mayors all over the country who windnd illegals are cross from e border area to their cities scream uncle with what passes for only a day or two or three's is worth of illegal border crossings. those are democrats. those aren't republicans. that is a policy that's being headed by secretary mayorkas so

the combination ofof him lying about the policies he's implementing as well as the damage of the policies he is implementing is going to lead to an impeachment that will come out at the committee. i hope it won't be a partyline vote and if it is that means it won't be a conviction in the senate but i believe they are an lot of democrats who are very unhappy with the policies of this administration and how destructive they have been in their communities. every town is a border town now than to note deaths all over the country and all of that fentanyl is coming across the southern border and being manufactured by the cartel with materials from china. the biden administration assistant secretary mayorkas knows this and does very little to impede those destructive elements coming across the border to say nothing of and criminals and so forth.

so i do think there's a place for impeachment i think mayorkas has appropriated to impeach secretary mayorkas under the circumstances then save president biden although president biden may have his own issues and being altering policies of the united states. that might be more appropriate that border -- given the border situation secretary mayorkas lying about it it's an appropriate response in one of the few responses that congress has.th given their limited number of choices they are proceeding with one that's available to them. >> john verizon on the independent line. >> at morning you two. i think that c-span is great. first you have a person from the left and now you have a person fromer the right.

i will say that i like results. has shown that he can do results pertaining to florida and all the circumstances that happened down there as willis's history. i wish he would discuss more of the positiveh things that your candidate has done and what do you think of having nikki haley as vice president? >> john i appreciate the question. we have a question about focus earlier from i want to say s.c. gwen is as one of those areas where governor desantis has been the leader. each of the states has an ominous economic assets in the business realm. governor desantis is leading a coalition of states against the

esg agenda that takes businesses away from making profits and while making profits may sound like a undertaking that's the point of businesses but it's why shareholders invest in them. am with over half of americans owning shares in businesses as part of their retirement for exampleha it's critical that our businesses focus on growing our economy byse performing better n the governor has pushed hard successfully in that direction. the same time i argue mentioned his efforts in higher education. he has successfully moved florida higher education away from indoctrination that comes with the woke up and then back to education. he done the same thing in the k-12 space while removing the often disgusting elements that folks and the teachers unions and the woke left want to push on children and even children in

kindergarten with sexualized content that's inappropriate and letting boys playing girls sports and the transgender agenda that's frankly at the point of being dangerous. for example one of the boxing associations is now betting men who claim to be women to fight women. that's just not safe. it's not safe to have that situation in sports and the governor has fixed all of that in florida but i also mentioned he has reducedovfi the debt in florida by 25%. florida now has a believe the lowest per the debt of any state in the country, something we desperately need at the federal level and he's done that while lowering taxes and he's been able to do that because he's made florida so attractive that more people are moving to florida than any other state. the old ronald reagan with

people voting with their feet. he's done what he can do to fight illegal immigration in the state. he's among the leaders in moving them to sanctuary cities to bring them home to the city is the real illegal immigration can have. we talk about the southwest border of the time. florida faces seagoing immigration, illegal immigration from out in the caribbean. the closest country to the united states down there is the bahamas, 48 miles away and they often make fast friends with high-value illegal immigrants particularly from china that they pay as much as $30,000 a person which is a higher rate than you see being paid across the southern border to make a --to florida. the florida national guard has effectivelyy employed to repel

those kinds of efforts and the governor has also was one of the first to respond when the gaza attack on israel happened on october 7. our own government while paying to fly illegal aliens from the southern border all of the united states would not bring americans home from israel i've war zone. the governor of florida brought floridians another psalm, hundreds of them quickly when it became apparent that joe biden and did administration would act and last but not least governor desantis has proven himself the single bestnt to first responder to natural disasters in american history. hurricaneis ian came ashore if u will recall over lee county. the track shifted in the last 72 hours. lee county's where my parents live. my father is an engineer. he was wildly impressed with the

response by the governor. i will remind folks that the governor led efforts to rebuild bridges and causeways literally in under two weeks to reconnect island parts of florida with the mainland of florida but i can tell you astnd an engineer thats an amazing accomplishment. doesn't happen because the governor snaps his fingers. it happened because they prepared beforehand and make good decisions during an executed follow-up superbly. there has literally never been a present or it government -- government has done a good a job. we sought last year frankly a year ago this fall when another hurricane hit florida during the governor's re-election campaign. lots of people in the media and certainly charlie crist's opponents are hoping the governor fallen and instead he performs spectacularly preserving life and property inr florida once again and doing it

better than anybody we have ever seen. that's a role the president hess to perform as well. >> ensorry to interrupt. i want to get to with dolores on the democrat line. dolores you are on with ken cuccinelli. >> at morning. >> good morning dolores. >> dolores go ahead. >> can you hear me? >> yes, go ahead please. i'm sorry to galore as we are having a connection issue let's try ulysses and sc democrats line. >> hello. pedro i have two questions for your guest. >> you are on with him now so go ahead and ask your question please.ah >> i want to ask you again about

donald trump. he keeps calling him president. president of what? >> former president take the title and people call me attorney general and i was the attorney general of virginia. the american people the stowed that onpl him in the 2016 electn and it's for life. >> one more question ulysses go ahead please. >> my second question dawall a quarter? on the border. .. fence? there are both on the border. there was more wall built during president trump's term, almost all built in the last year, but it was not nearly what he had promised to do.

there is also fencing at various points. there single, magicalal tool for barricading the border and funneling the flows through legal ports of entry. both are used ideally where appropriate. we have a lot more work to do on that front. we need a lot more wall detergent scale and penetrate a need to be by people committed to protecting the united states unlike the current president and secretary of homeland security. and the men and women of the border patrols who mission it is to protect that border are held back from performing their own mission and of thus making use of that wall. walls and fences are only tools folks. they do not solve the problem of illegal immigration. no a while and no fence will

work in the absence of manpower behind or alongside the barrier that is ready to protect america's border and americas people. the amendment and women are border patrol are ready to protect you and me in this country they had an in administration of let them doo that. instead under biden rivet administration open the doors to cartels come to criminals, to tireless and anyone else who wants to come into this country. so far over 10 million people at that exactly, that. let's what the organization never back down represents government ron desantis as he makes his effort to become the presidential nominee joining us for this conversation. ken cuccinelli, thank you for your tiebreak looks good to be with you, have a great day. >> thank you, mr. chairman good to see after long break. so, i am listening to the gentle lady from south carolina about

the witness being afraid to come in front of the committee. interesting. here it does not appear to be too afraid. in fact, for some reason that the chairman who on multiple occasions invited the witness to come on tv. apparently the chairman was to pretend his statements on television white interviews don't matter. i didn't happen once, it didn't happen twice, happen multiple times. the chairman said the witness can choose whether to come to a deposition or to a public hearing in front of the committee. that witness accepted the chairman's invitation. i just so happens the witnesses here. at the committee once to hear from the witness, and then chairman gave the witness that option, then the only folks that are afraid to hear from the witness with the american people

watching, are my friends on the other side of the aisle. i do not know if there's a proper motion mr. chairman but i will make a motion let's take a vote, who wants to hear from hunter right now today? anyone? come on he wants hear from hunter? no one. so i am a visual learner. the visual is clear. nobody over there wants to hear from the witness okay one thank you for correctly yield for question? it's an up there yet but i will eventually. there is no one other than one or two that want to hear from the witness for the majority of my colleagues over there including the chairman do not want to hear from the witness with the american people watching. so mr. chairman, i just want to hear from you, will you acknowledge that you invited the witness on television to choose whether he could come to a public hearing.

do you stand by your words or renege on that invitation to the witness? ask and answer the question of said repeatedly after the deposition mr. biden can come in front of a public hearing for. >> mr. term i do not want to play the video but that's how we set on television multiple times. we have the quote, we can put them up you said the witness can choose between a deposition or. >> lesson, mr. biden does not make the rules but we make the rules were. >> mr. term and you make the rules. the role you made is that he can choose it. those were your words print reclaiming my time progress he was issued to lawful subpoenas or. >> are claiming my time you issue the subpoenas after he took you up on your invitation to come and then you're like oh no, no, what did i do? i invited him to come to the american people can hear his side of the story. i put my foot in my mouth so now i must bury him in the basement where we can decide what we are going to release to the public so we can continue to tell that

story. mr. chairman you have said multiple times this is not about hunter it is about joe biden. and even this morning on mornings with maria she asked another simple question read the question you have been asked on multiple times, which is do you have evidence to impeach the president of the united states? before you said i hope so. today you said i think so. and the answer is you don't and you still don't. we continue to be here and have the charades. to my colleagues to talk about lawful subpoenas, i appreciate the gentle lady from south carolina who voted to hold people in contempt. i will make this bipartisan i will vote for hunters contempt you can get my vote but i want to show the american people that you are serious. here is a subpoena to representative scott perry who did not comply i'd like to enter this into the record. here's a subpoena to mark

meadows. i like to enter this into the record who did not comply. here is a subpoena to jim jordan who did not comply with a lawful submit like to enter that into the record. here is a subpoena who did not comply i'd like to enter that into the record for here's a subpoena mr. biggs who did not comply i'd like to enter that into the record. and here's a subpoena to mr. mccarthy who did not comply like to enter that into the record. there is an amendment coming to add some of those names into the contempt order. you vote to add those names and show the american people that we apply the law equally not just when it is democrats. it's a crime when it's democrats opponents trump and the republicans it's fine. no, show you are serious and everyone is not above the law but vote for that amendment i will vote for the hunter biden contempt. >> house oversight committee which debated a resolution of whether to hold hunter biden in contempt of congress for failing to comply with a subpoena. mr. biden was on capitol hill early in the aud