people are talking about that is left has been on one level an effective political strategy for them because mcgovern republicanism is a very mobilizing force. right. margaret public is a m democrats did not come out in 2022 because they love joe biden. they came outause. they fear donald trump. that is why they will come out in 2024. also, donald trumpst of that political strategy is that we're in the same political dynamic we were four years agoñ. there are some differences, but not, frankly, all that many fewer than i would have th it did not shift when barack obama, four years later the election was about barack obama. right. whether people liked h and didn't like him. he was such a dominant figure in american politics in some degree in american donald trump made the about donald trump, joe biden, and it you know, i think if bernie sanders had won for better or for worse, if you could have won that election, would have then become a and other things. and so at some point a page needs to turn willing if it does and we'll see. but right now we're kind of a little trap, like it feels very

groundhog day, as in the worst po way. and i have to turn the page because we're out of time. thanks, both of you for what was a really terrific discussion and yeah. thankryone, and good morning. thank you to the rancho mirage writers festival for having us here for you all the audience for being hd the chance to be on the stage and answer questions from ari mel and idea was to really do a little b the side and the personal journey of you and o are and this extraordinary extraordinary and what was pretty brutal coming of

age story in washington, dc, the cautio tale but ultimately inspirational one, i think, and i know this has been inspiring for me as so we all know the public came to know through testimony before the house select committee tounitedbut it wasn't until about a year after that testify that you were able to to begin writing story and to telling your your full story publicly. and so i'd like to start from the a jersey girl, jersey tell tell me. growing up in new jersey with a mom and dad who split when you were in fifth grade. a you were born in your home. so was your brother. one of the both of us were your both home. but and your brother was born.

before new jersey? tell us about your parents, your background, how was. so thank you for the warm introd thank you all for being here this morning. and to rancho mirage graciously hosting myself and for both of us, this is an incredible event. i'm really grateful to be here to speak with all about the book in this moment and how we can all come together moving forward. so like just said, i did grow up in new jersey. my parents split when i came very humble beginnings though my father, my biological father owned and worked a landscaping and my mom helped him run company. we didn't have a ton of money but they worked hard and that was something that i am grateful that i witnessed from a young age andknow it wasn't always we went through tough times, but you know i think about my upbringing in relation to my experience working in the white house and in some ways i

felt as i was an employee at the white house that i wasn't exactly perfect fit in some ways that my biological father was very kind of a doomsday planner in is there are a lot of people like that. but i grew up this perception of the government and public service while feeling this pull and drive to go into public myself so it wasn't in really residential election when it wasma and mitt romney when i first started watching the debates and it was almost like something and it just clicked for me and i had idea of public service growing up. and then i watched the debates and i didn't know exactly how i could go into politics. but the republican party message made sense to me. i felt that it aligned with my ideals largely and how i perceive the world growing up through the lens in which the i was experiencing the world at the time and that really

motivated me to gord through with college and then eventually to washington. well and you have an amazing story because of how you got to college. but i want to just put in a story you tell in your book that was formative y, you talk how it was really 2012 where it all clicked, but it was clearly before then and you had a member of your your greater family that, served in iraq and afghanistan you went to the hangar when he was returning from combat and sort of the glory of seeing soldiers returning home and being with their families and your first american flag pin can you tell tha thank you bring that up. so my uncle joe was figure that i really had in life that was a publicn indiana, but my aunt started dating him and courageous, remarkable person to me from a very young age and very nurturing in a way that biological father wasn't. so it's really difficult for me

when he went and fought in the war, but i also knew because he had talked me about this, how important it was for the country, that he was willing to lay down his life and sacrifice for the country in that way. so when he came home i mean, i waiting weeks for this and my mom brother and i drove out to indiana and we're in this airplane hangar and it's so hot it's the middle of august and we're just waiting waiting waiting all day and slowly the airplane door starts going up and you see the soldiers march ng about this because it's just this really moment in my life and in my history and memories but our since our founding. and that's immense national pride, especially for the people who are willing to lay down country and for our citizens and constituents. and right now, you know, i in my view and how i've experienced a lot of this we we need to return some of those being a citizen of this country is the highest honor that we all cant it's incumbent,

all of us, to continue to work to make america great. we can't just rely on our military and our soldiers. we all have to be participant in our democracy. you, you, you've got to college against. i think a lot of stor you to make other choices but your your your determigracious and and extraordinarily methodically worked your way through a series internships on capitol hill on. the house side on the senate side eventually to the white house and became an enormously valuable member of the white us because you understood the congress and. so, chuck, to just explain i mean your and your dedication to sort of being committed to a course of developing competitive political resume is pretty and it's something i didn't understand about you until i read your book. think it's something i'm still trying to understand about

myselfo know my and from a very young age my biological other. we have a very strained relationship now. i'm very grateful for, you know what we had growing up in the lessons that i have learned from hi in me from a very young age that education, i had to go to college. and he wasn't saying we lived a bad life, but he wanted a better life for me an brother. so i wanted to go to college, my a little bit more indifferent about it, which is also completely but i knew that i in order to, you know sort of get out of this patterns that i had found myself in and wanting a better life. i had to go to school and i wanted to pursue a career in politics politics. so i knew when i was applying to capitol hill it was maybe going to be a little bit more difficult. you i applying to republican offices and you capitol hill interns for that don't know typically work for theiei representative

new jersey doesn't have many republicans sitting at the time so i blast my resume out to every single house republican nd i got five interviews and except internship with then majority steve scalise in 2017. so all this coalesced with trump coming to office and becoming president and the his of his administration. office. he was shot on the baseball ent through this experience, steve scalise, as the whip, the number three in seniority in the house of representatives at the time had access to every single member and you develop personal relationships with hundreds of members of congress you when you got to the white house. right. and i that that you know, i used to say i was i don't know if. it was the wrong place, wrong time, wrong place. right time anymore. but it cracked here. so the whip does member services. so i was able to form relationships one on one retionshipn/s not only with

staff but with the members themselves eventuallthe white house, got an internship in the office of legislative affairs, which i think is one of the most important offices. it is essentially the bridge between, the executive branch and the legislative branch without a really outlay. you don't have a system of communication within the ment. but i worked for the house and that's where i really started relations with members of leadership such. as former congressman mccarthy. eventually mark, who i ended up working for when he was the chief of staff, we developed a strong relationship with mark meadows, who essentially cultivated you knowing not in a creepy way, but well, maybe, maybe it will always speak to the nature of how that developed. but ultimately he spotted as a highly talented, highly effective working staffer. and the second he was asked to be chief staff, hend brought you into you up becoming essentially the chief of staff to the chief house. when you are 23 years old. it's an amazing robust,

responsive position, chock with a how did you feel about that thatid you ever have imposter syndrome pinch yourself or just think i'm my office is next to the oval in the white house. you know i, i did have moments like that. but what i think made me effective partially in role was the fact that i was able to look at people asto do a job and get the job done. so i was able to sort of put up a blinder which also did not serve me wellause was very blissfully in some ways and very ignorant othera lot of the more treacherous things that were happening within the administration, but tell us about what that job was like. what what did the job entail? i mean, it was sort of a little bit of everything. i was the way that mark originally described the job to me was i wing. so he wanted me to travel us to be seen together. he wanted to make that. people knew that i was a stable conduit to mark. so whether it was cabinet

secretaries or their staffs members of congress, senators, he wanted me to be an access point to get to him. but i thinkhat every chief of staff deserves to have a strong staff below them to serve well, because ultimately they're there to serve the president of the united some. i enjoyed my role with mark and i would be doing a disservice to myself and to mark if i didn't acknowledge because i the only reason that i'm no there's reasons here today but the reason i'm largely here today is because he me the opportunity and he empowered me in ways that a lot of bosseswouldn't at a young age and whether or not that's a or a strength or a weakness respectfully i'm going to disagree. the reason you're here today is because of bold actions you took as an individual with deep reservoir of courage in a very difficult momentor our country. because if you hadn't, wouldn't be here today. but i'd like you to this hour, i want to acknowledge he did empower me and he did.

and increasingly i know i want to spend just a bit on that because maybe he had good touch the characters. oh good southern baptist often does right. but but i want to just spend a beat what it was like to work for mark meadowsause you write in your book, you had some hesitations about working for him initially mean you had been in the office of legislative affairs and you thought, oh my gosh, do i promotion to become a special assistant to the president and the chief of staff of the chief of staff of the and you that he would not go onend you on his own. you acted literally in his steed after, not very much time at all. so about seven months and seven his so, i mean, why did initially have hesitations working with him? and was there ever a tension that you felt and i'm feeding you here, i read this in your book, you talk about feeling a felt loyal to mark to the president and of serving the country. an you talk about that? i'm happy you mentioned that because when i entered public service, i had this concept of

who i wanted to and it was based offur past. you know, from our first president to abrah lincoln to john mccain, to mitt romney. so i was looking and you got at the time a very republican lens. and i admit that but i entered public service wanting to become someone that would lay down their life for the country. and that's you know i believe that when you swear an oath to the country you you swear that oath your to uphold that and it's sort of sad that we've divulged so far that as a society where it's seen as cour and honor that oath. and you know i think that that's unfortunate aspect of what we're experiencing now. but to go back to what your saying about working with mark. did you feel a tension between loyalty to him and that that of to your job? yes. and where i had a i was i didn't do a lot of self-reflect in that job. and when i, i was very clear with

him that i wanted to work for not meadows as mark meadows. and to me,there. i was there to serve the office of. the chief of staff oe house, not the individual. and you had some hesitation. i did have yes, i did have hesitations. of taking that job, because i covered was just sort of getting i was well positioned in the office of legislative affairs, but also the first impeachment had just ended. there was an election coming. i was a little concerned about job security, so i started putting out feelers on the hill. but throughout my tenure with with mark and working the president, i did inured to the political rhetoric rhetoric that was prevalent throughout the administration and and it was unfortunate that that and i did feel this conflicting stance of loyalty. di of reflection at the time to understand that the conflict within me. wasn't that i was necessarily disloyal to the country, but it was some in view some of the people i was working for including the former president of the united states, mr. trump,

ey weren't loyal to the country and was in a position where it, you know, we were going i'm you million miles. you're in those office in the white house, it's hard to understand how when you're describing 16, 18, 20 hour days repeatedly you're getting sleep pandemic then. we had the summer of civil unrest after george was murdered or in the mist of an election n election. so you have no time to sleep. you you're living basically red bull coffee and protein. and my health had declined and so there isn't i mean i, i certainly understand that experience not having worked in the white house chief of staff but having worked in the white house during the katrina incident under george w bush it's you don't have time think you're just trying to get do the job and complete your responsibilities and you refract later, which is clearly what you've done. but there's just two stories that i think are so funny from your experience in the white house. one of them is about your boss mark meadows, who is a total teetotaler he's a southern baptist. he doesn't drink and you come

into thefficone morning on a monday at 10 a.m. and there are three white desk. well, what happened, girls that have alcohol and. not they, this is what he says to the chief white house. chief staff on the monday morning, says, girls, do these have alcohol in them. so thirk and i, we were on the campaign trail. we both came down with the coronavirus so we had been out for ten days after t elections. this was our first day back on the election night, i guess there had been i wasn't there night because i had the corona virus, but i guess there had been a little bit of party festivities in the west wing and there had been some white cloth not. what a lot of people don't know is he doesn't drink flat water. he only drinks sparkling water. he cropped out the white claws which sparkling on the canned and not realizing that they, i think, are 5% alcohol. i mean, he doesn't drink so so he had to take some time to sober up before the president came down that morning morning.

you know, i like to think that maybe he just wanted to indulge in a little stress relief, but but it was truly innocent. there's so much time traveling on the campaign going ahe of the president's to ensure that the eventual you started going ahead to that the crowd size was proper and that all the advance work had been done the president's specifications. and there's a moment you describe because you have choice words about mark meadows now. i know they're complicated because you also felt very loyal and devoted him and you describe one episode in the book that i think shows how much shows him in a more nuanced i think you're in north carolina at a major rally and you her father and trying to get mark's attention because mark is one of the celebrities at these trump rallies. and mark is just not seeing her. and the girl starts to cry. so wha happened is we're in his

home state and i grabbed mark and i pointed at the little girl and i told that he needed to go over and he was was going to ruin her day or her life. he didn't go over the they after her. so he sent me back to the little gifts, including an american pin. and by the time i had returned got to have goose bumps right now by the time i had returned were in the overflow section of the rally crowd. so they wereally on jumbotrons. mark had pulled the little girl crouching talking to her. so i slipped him all theas talking to her father and he was telling me that he had worked night shift and his daughter to go to this rally. so about and this was a rally that we had rescheduled due to inclement wther and he had you know, he worked the night shift he had taken her and he was almost null that mark had taken the time to talk to his dauger. he had brought his daughter there to see that day, which is democracy in action. and our constitutional republic working in our election system

working. and it's really also a sober moment for me. look back on because on one hand, it's a really and real moment for mark, you know, these are not everything was bad and i that's really important to remember especially as we enter this election year. we're all people at the end of th day and he is and was he was and maybe he he did care and he that sense of patriotism to her. and it meant a lot to me in that moment. but i reflect on that nowthink about what i've gone through and just this period of reexperience of working for mr. trump, but also with my inging and the falling out which i'm sure we'll get. the that lies around donald trump. that for him or don't send dollar donations for him to and essentially there's paying legal bills i t about of the staff and lawyers that he has exploitver the years for his own personal self-gain and it makes really sad h so effective

at deceiving such a massive portion of the american population because americans deserve better. our futures desour future generations of women and little girls deserve better. we need stable leadership to ensure. no. one of the things i know we've talked about this you've mentioned thatas you came out of had sort of really help you through your first round of testimony and then moving on and we'll get to that somebody said something to you about how. yeah, you're being you're being deprogram because you know in reference this notion of of a cult wk you deeply, uncomfortably. but how you come to think about all those who believe in that that this notion that donald trump is fighting for them. yeah. you know it's like the cult

reference really difficult for me. it's i don't want to be neous with a blanket categorizing donald trump for the maga as a cult but it it was a very cult like movement and i' i have done some research since and there a lot of parallels, especially with my experience of leaving and then coming to with what i actually was part and i think it's really really criticalo remember or at least to keep in mind that when we talk to people, you know, i think that sometimes as a society i experienced this where i wa very very fearful of making that break with the trump world, but i had wanted and i felt compelled to because i had a constitutional responsibility and a moral obligation to do so. but i was really afraid completely ostracized by my tribe the republican party, which i had a part of. that was where all of my social and professional circles were formed. and i was also really afraid of being completely chastised and ousted by the left because i had made poor choices, had been part of something that, was dangerous

and wrong, and i felt and, you know, i think when we talk to people, we need to you're in a situation like that and it's really put words to explain if you have an experience that yourself. but i was viewing the world through this very lens and when i felt at the time when started talking to me about, you know, maybe you should start thinking about the cul thinking in that way, or doing some research that made me almost take my heelsbecause you read your defense a lot, wants to be told they're ins a part of something dangerous wants to be told they're part of something conversations from an educational perspective and also to make sure that people are beingo and to approach. as you know,t of view. but this is mine. you know, this is this would be a order to get out from this moment, we have to get we have to, as a practice, a little bit more empathy, understanding for the people that have been seduced and sucked into trums sanctum

and movement irrationally false, falsely, because he has built this movement off of fear and propaganw authoritarians rise to power. and that is what we're on the brink of right know i'm not here to fearmonger but that is the real as i think that we are extremely fortunate we haven't scenario like we have seen in other countries where they' had a democracy and then it's been taken away from them. but they happen really fast and it almost did and we're on the prep press such that of happening again you beautifully. we know how you felt ajanuary six with limited time.ou tick tock or the line by line, please by book and read it. pelling compelling testimony to your journey. you go through january six you ultimately realize that you're aboutreceive a subpoena after the january six committee is formed and you find yourself in golden handcuffs because. worked the federal government

for the previous four years, have any resources to pay legal bills but enter othe campaign or someone associate hated with trump world volunteers to pay for your legal fees and participate heartedly and holistically until you you realize. that you actually do want toe wholly forthcoming and you want a second chance. you tell a story about your friend sam, who i believe is a member ofes and he is a current member who encourages you to go look in the mirror a but look at whether you can live yourself. and and somehow that precipitated you g other direction. yes, that night the jury committee had filed submitted a lawsuit or something against meadows mark meadows where several pages of my testimony first you sat in my testimony had published and

i'm reading through the transcript and it was just this really powerful, also extremely frightening moment for because i, i had thati entered public service. and i, in that moment it hit me like a train how far gone i was from that person. and again i felt this really concert responsibility to uphold my oath right thing and to come forward and tell the whole truth and to tell everything that i that i knew. so i called sam. and who is a current republic and member of congress who did not serve on the january six look in the mirror and like you just said yes, if i could live with myself for the rest of my life. and it sort of at thme seemed like this really and sort of idiotic thought experiment. and i aldon't like to look at myself when i'm crying as i just was very emotional in this moment. but it was just this remarkable force circle moment for me that i lookon now. there are a lot of moments that

change the trajectory of my life, but that really was one where i, for the first time felt was okay to go forward and do the right thing. and something that i had worked with in the past and i had known from my time in the administration who was still serving in congress and who is andnsible member of congress throughout. this the ten years that i worked continues to be so. but it's also important to remember that that's not reflective the entire congress. and i think that we need to to elect more people like that of moral integrity and it's not that iave i feel, to protect his identity because i don't want there to be civil unrest or public or political violence unleashed on him and his family. and that's the era that we're living in. and that's what donald trump has normalized. so psa there are republicans in congress currently serving are afraid for their own safety and will not stand up to donald trump but areew to be there because when the rubber hits the road? do you think sam will vote for a certificate even when it comest time or not? i mean, this is to me, i think

there are several republicans who for certification, but a lot of them have left. and that's i meanpc when rubber hits the road next is if it's trump v biden and there's an electoral watch republicans are going to join with democrats to certify. and i think that's a really important point. speaking about the 2024 election and in my view right, one of the, you know, donald trump is an existential crisis for our constitutionallic and to our democracy and to our stability as a nation on the stage. it is absolutely essential that he has never anywhere near the oval again. but second, on that priority list for me is making sure that we electponsible trustworthy people to congress and right now the repu as have perceived it, is not in a place where they're going to elect responsible people to congress. and there is a very good chance that this next election could be contested again. you know, i think that we approach selection it's equally important to talk about congress and democrats in my life.

i consider myself conservative personal principles, but i don't necessarily think that my personal conservative principles are what should be the lay of the land. but i would vote for democrats oard, in this next election if that meant that donald trump andss don't have the ability to uproot and shred our almost in okay this is my favorite of the book that i didn't know about you. you go in you get to this point in, your journey where you decide you're going to move forward with legal counsel, with and you're going to testify you're going to go back and spill the beans. to tell everything. and part of what led you to this he is a man. and i'd like to see a show of hands in the room for people who recognize the name and understand the importance of alexander butterfield. i'd. okay, so alexaer, you discover okay to remind people. alexander butterfield is the deputy chief of staff to the

white house. chief of heilmann, and he is the haldeman, andindividual who immediately going into the of the white house hhaldeman how did you i'm sorry, not haldeman and how did you feel? an instantim. so this was after my conversation with sam and and i had begun the process of back channeling to the committee to go in for a third deposition because at the time was thinking, you know, still through this i maybe i could just get through itq/9e unscathed and know that obviously unscathed. but as i'm driving to new jersey one night and, i'm thinking there had to be somebody in the nixon white house that had a similar role or position to what i had a role that required an and an incredible amount of the ability to keep things to themselves. and that didn't want to be in that position. but ultimately, you know did

right thing. i just i needed a connection with that had gone through something and i you know, i had heard of john dean but i was like i was not the white house although anything would amount to that. and i a john dean is incredible an honorable but you know we're on the same level as john dean. so i on the watergate page and i find alexander butterfield's name. so i click on it and it's a very limited profile. so automatically i'm like he did not try to do anything. after he went forward, he did the right thing already. green flags, all around. and then i'm starting to read about what he actually did and forward and testified to and i extremely moved not only his story but by his commitment to his country and by his commitment to honor his oath. and it he didn't want come forward to the watergate, but he knew from the get go he go without question, he would go and he would tell the military. he had taken the oath once when he swore into the military, he had taken oath another time when he swore to work in the whihouse.

and then he worked at the faa as well. and i ' the person that i felt that i could not grasp. i felt that i could so kind of claw my way back. me that second wind of optimism, strength to go forward and continue working with the january six committee. and at this time to you know it's this is about april of 2022. so we're not in this where are now where we have a wall of public resources and knowledge about what acened that day but it was hearing meet alex that you know for me as an experienced almost 50 years to the day when i testified and i we had a conversation about this, where you know have envisioned that 50 years later we would have been on the brink of. another corrupt presidency that required people to go truthfully. and i think about that. and then 50 years down the road and anything that i do to make

sure that either that never happens again or that there's another future, a little girl or woman or even a man, that if they feel like on the brink of making a really difficult moral decision, that they have someone to turn to and companionship and their storytelling or through books or through know, my journey isn't linear. dei ma lot of things that i wish i could take back, but it's al in my view, a journey of self-discovery and a comeback and a grace that saved my life and being embracedhave inspired me to continue on this trajectory of public servic show also show me that there are really really good, caring people in this rworld, but we have to surround ourselves with those people. you write in your paper, ycannot. the impact of alexander butterfiel my life his allegiance to his oath that swore is a reminder that the pursuit justice is an obligation that should never waver. may his legacy continue to inspire moral compass in the face of

adversity and that you credit that the journey wouldn't have happened without you and butterfield in hindsight said regrets he had to do it all over again. i, i do the very same thing. where's your phone? do you have your phone? you. it'backstage. she showed backstage her phone and the screen saver on her phone is a picture of her. alexander butterfield, wasn't it? was, actually. when did you meet? almost, almost a year. it might have been exactly year ago. it's late february 2nd in. i'm almost been might have been february 2nd last year. i tell you, i met him for the first time and i was flyin and i remember i've never been to san diego and i remember out the plane window and seeing all the warships. and alex and i talked on the phone a lot leading upe first time we had met and he had told me to look out the window and we plane was landing. and i would see all of navy battleships. and he was so of all of th almost sense. we were like, i was coming home know alex's. given our country so much to and he's just he embodies what a public servant is. and i'm i'm grateful that he was

around to help guide me througand he didn't know that he was a core force for me and that he was when i needed him the most after. we don't have much time left, but i want to head to more topics quickly. liz cheney is, also somebody who has become really a spiritual guidepost for. you, a mentor, treasure upon and respect and admire. one of the things liz cheney said aboutnd the january six committee hearing in your courage come forward was that the country needs see strong women and to. yeah. i mean liz cheney i she is not only an incredible public incredible woman. she's an leader. she's an incredible role model. i looked towards lizhx cheney when i was, you know, going through this period, a year and a half after the end of tadministration, as somebody who i didn't always agree with. and she irks me from time to but she was doing what i

was jealous and i had do myself and, you know, it's really i feel so fortunate. i had her example to talk to liz cheney, adam kinzinger. but i also think about other nancy pelosi, who i worked with her and her tenure in the white house. and i you know, i think about her, the moral leadership that she has set for for generations of women and little girls. and if i can amount a fraction of who tse are, alys matthews, ruby moss, shay freeman that all testified before the january six committee. you know i it men have successfully let our country to the point that we're at now but i believe that our future is female and we to build generations of strong girls. and i want to reflect on serious. you've alluded to it throughout all of your your comments, but that the process you as you have reflected back you wrote that you reflected and you have

regretted the and the cruelty the crudity of some of the president's messaginit's inappropriateness. his unpresidential tweets communication. and but they you became a nerd too it and you speak to the power of tribalism in our politics and how it didn't just affect you and the staff in the white house it's affected the a cult, but it's a movement with cult like features and it is eroding our our democracy and the that have taken 250 years to build how how can we move forward because right as a repeat. we've essentially they've repeated the same election for three cycles. there's no reason that we should be in thosition right now. but we are and we need to accept that. you know, a lot of by the way that's not an easy thing to do. many republicans not accepted that reality. many republicans, the the the country atg to wake up to the fact that

we're on track for trump 2.0 reelect schoen which history that will have to incumbents facing off against each other. one of the things for the president to do on charges and and there's that so and one facing 91 criminal chargesthere's not a simple formula i don't think to move know how to exactly move forward but i think you know, there are several. ry though? how we can move past this? i do. i think a lot about that. and i think, you know, touched on this earlier. i think moving forward, it's, you know, a lot of this would to come, i believe, in my view, after the 2024 presidential election. i think that we need to put all of our time and resources right now making sure, you know, the election's going we karl rove here yesterday and karl rove could spea much to the statistics of all this than i could, buts- essentially election will come down to a handful of swing in about 100,000 votes and the greatest likelihood we need to make sure that we're devoting resources to those districts, to the american

population as a whole, to make sure that they're not getting constantly fed propaganda lies. you step that we need to take, need to deconstruct theystem on, fortunately successfully impleme movement based off of people's basic and t security and what they rely on the government for. and he's that fear d built a movement of and lies and this falsehood. so we need to ma we're properly educating the american people about what's but i think what's essential in some o will come down the road is a is explaining toow fragile democracy is and how quickly itus. we need to talk about how that's so fortunate as americans to not have experience that. but it can happen really fast and dissolve. and again, we're on the brink of. that potentially happening in 2024. and it's a really really dangerous and critical moment for. our history as a nation, but

also for the peace and stability the world we have been the gatekeepers of security, the world for 250 years. and what example are we setting for the world, if we're going to not stick up for our in what we have so cherished for long. you know andk about all of this and i, i don't ever life where i look back again and i think could have done more. could i have said something? how i explain this, my children or my future grandchild, grandchildren or generations of that. i stood back when it might have been remain. you know i think that when we move forward and, hopefully move forward a little more hand in hand and to be able to havproductive conversations, we've righted our ds our better angels, as we have in hutchinson for your courage, for your willingness to share and speak out, and to to be one of those pillars that stands u democracy in those brutal, harsh moments. thank you for sharing with us.

thank you vergoodng. thank you all for coming.