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the subcommittee on oversight will come to order. without objection the chair made it clear we could resist and time and the record will remain open open for private sidibe some members may submit any materials they wish to be today we have congressman brian mask joining us to participate in today'som little later. as a former army explosive ordinance disposal technician the congressman is well-positioned to expose failures of the january 6 responses it will analyze today. appreciate having them here and discussion. thank you ranking member torres members of the subcommittee and witnesses for joining us at today's oversight hearing. january 6 of 2021 was incredibly day for our country.

our capitol was overrun in some individuals assaulted the u.s. capital s police officers and their breached our halls. additionally explosive devices were p the rnc threatening our security. today we will focus on identifying the numerous security failures that preceded and continue persist following the discovery of two explosive devices near the complexanuary 6 at 2021. although it's been three years we still have unanswered questions but according to the fbi there are still no suspects as to who plantedl the devices found near the rnc and the dnc. i know i share many people's concerns that there has been no update in their investigation. additionally the january 6 select committee which was meant to dive in to failures and investigations of january 6 completely to investigate the process. despite former speaker nancy pelosi and house democrats

spending millions of dollars in their two years on the select committee their investigation into the t pipe bombs was basically nonexistent. their 845 plus page re i can can tell no investigation was conducted. in contrast president mentioned in the report 1901 times. i refuse to follow the select committee's footsteps footsteps and except the partisan biased investigation. there were genuine and regrettable security failures on january 6. the response to the devices was one of the most alarming and an oximate 12:42 p.m. the united states capital police received reports of an explosive device under the rnc and are one of 5:00 p.m. the second device was discovered at the dnc while vice president-elect kamala harris was inside the building to the vice president-elect came within feet of the device which

is death -- and detonated could cause serious bodily harm. cctv footage indicates the devices were planted the night before by an individual carrying a backpack and wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt mask loves glasses and a pair of nike air mass. >> sneakers. despite police cameras in the fbi's effortsviewing over 800 individuals in assessing more than 300 tips to suspect still remains at large. unfortunately the fbi has failed to provide substandard updates on the investigation despite numerous requests from congressionalin committees. today they have declined to participate in our hearing. we are joined by several experts today who will help shed light on the device responses includin capital police sean gallagher. assistant chief gallagher directed the counter surveillance team dec to the dnc

following discovery of the device at the rnc. all today will spend time analyzing the discrepancies of the device ultimately this hearing is meant to help us move forward. i look forward to your testimony chief gallagher and to working tother so we casuhe shortcomings of this nature don't happen again but i salute and applaud the u.s. capital police officers who day in and day out devote their lives to protecting the members in the halls of congress and the thousands of visitors who are here every this morning and i now recognize the ranking member for five minutesse of providing an opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman and i join you in welcoming our witnesses to our hearing. thank you for your many years of service to our community. i understandmportant and dangerous your jobs truly arend

especially who choose to use bombs instead of the ballot to achieve their ends. i also know from many gears dispatcher that it is usually premature to assess the law enforcement response to a act while a federal investigation is still active and ongoing. i'm sure that my colleagues on her side of the aisle know this with leads me to wonder what exactly is it that we are doing he this morning? maybe it's to peddle the crazy right-wing conspiracy theories about the january 6 bombs in the dark corners of the internet or maybe we are here so once again try to model our history. villainize l enforcement and undo the efforts of the

bipartisan january 6 select committee. all to distract from the simple fact that the former president and republican nominee for president orchestrated a corrupt scheme to overturn the results of a free and fair election. when that didn't work he summoned an armed were held them up and dispatch them to the capitol endangering the lives ofyone working here that day including membersha of congress not to mention putting at risk the lives of the outgoingincoming vice president. i was in the house gallery when the capitol was breached. it ise that all who committed criminal acts that they be held accountable for their actions including especially plays pipe bombs at the dnc and the rnc. we must remember that this isn't

an episode of law and order. we don't get to ride our own ending according to what may or may not be convenient for our politics. it's frustrating and i agree 100% that all critical and sensitive investigations take time. experts are tasked with not only solving a crime but also identifying potential characteristics to prevent future threats. from the church bombings that terrorized communities throughout the civil rights movement to the bombing of oklahoma city federal law enforcement house to work tirelessly sometimes for y and decades to put together the pieces needed to fully investigate come identify and violent like whomever placed these bombs. fbi director director christopher wray testified before the january committee --

the judiciary committee last year that his agents reviewed 40,000 video files and assessed more than 500. law enforcement has sent -- thousands of man-hours investigating crime and they will continue to do so until the perpetrators brought to justice. while my colleagues on the other side of the aisle and i disagree on some things i hope that we can acknowledge and respect the vital work that law enforcement including law enforcement does on our behalf. just last week house republicans included cs to doj fbi and bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms and explosives atf programs in their appropriations bill for fiscal year 2024. if they were serious about this investigation and supported law enforcement they wouldn't have cutt critical funding for federal law enforcement needed to solve

these crimes and others. this committee should not be used as a platform to feed into internet conspiracy theorists and i look forward to discussing and learning more about the complexities of the important work that the fbi and its partners arepo engaged in from our witnesses. thank you once again for taking the time to testify and for appearing and i yield back. >> i now recognize the full committee ranking member mr. mr. morelle for five minutes for the purpose of the riding an opening statement you to our witnesses for joining us this morning and thank you for your long service and thanks to the great men and women of thca every day to keep the american people safe which is no easy task and wee are grateful. i must admit i'm perplexed as to why we are here for a public hearing on an active and ongoing

federal criminal investigation. especially one which the fbi has repeatedly told congress including members of the subcommittee that discussing an ongoing investigation will undermine its integrity and make it more difficult to catch the. ii have to wonder aloud whether that's the goal, to undermine the integrity of an ongoing investigation. e not. but here we are so while i'm not quite sure what the versailles's goal of this hearing is a sincerely hopepel it's treated with the seriousness deserves and not use as a platform to spread conspiracy theories about the fbi and the united states capital police. throughoutd this congress house republicans have called to the fund agencies like the fbi and the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms ands. one house republicans sells t-shirts on their web site that says de-fund the fbi. i must point out irony of my friends on the other side aisle repeatedly t criticizing the pace of this fbi investigation while the same time probably

attempting to de-fund the fbi atf and other agencies inquiry. how does it make any sense to criticize the pace of the investigation were the resources allocatede to it while simultaneously taking those resources away? one confused with the exec director of the national fraternal order of police summed it up well. to withhold funding for law enforcement is atr variants with common sense. it's not just the funding. this entire congress house republicans and bizarre accusations the fbi is weaponized in the american people i can be trusted. that's for technical difficulties prevented the majority of the subcommittee from doing so in the current speaker admitted his allies on thee subcommittee were blurring the faces of riders in the january 6 footage they received over capital police objections because quote we don't want them to be retaliated against and

charged the department of justice. imagine that. people break in while we won't want them to be retaliated against her charge for crimes they committed. as i'm sure was going to law enforcement relies on that members for investigations and these baseless -- discourages members of publica may be helpful and have information from collaborating. don't get me wrong it's key that the individual or individuals who placed the pipe bombs at the dnc and the rnc ahead of the january 6 attack should be caught and prosecuted while i appreciate the majority's interest in not sure how this hearing will help advance thatgoal or what the committee and house up and stretching could possibly do legislatively to speed up an active fbi investigation. i think the witnesses for being here for your service and your willingness to answer questions and i'm looking forward to a your testimony and without mr. chairman i yield back.

>> the doma nields. this hearing is to review the handling of two serious incidents that affects the safety and the security of republicans and democrats and visitors in this city. i was sure that this could and should be a bipartisan hearing and i hope that it will be. the fbi has been this for three years. this hearing is not about the fbi nor its investigation. it's about the response in a process of responding to three very dangerous devices that provide an eminent risk to people herent at the capitol for the fbi was invited to be here today but they declined. i believe we have assembled an impressive panel of experts that can help us break down the response.

this hearing, this is not about the fbi investigation but but this is about something that this committee does have oversight which is the u.s. capital police and law enforcement and howow they respond to incidents like this. without ct other members will be made part of the hearing if they are submitted to the commtee by david a pair% the world six with witnesses will please stand and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative and you may be seated and thank you all. i will not introduce our capital police assistant chief creative foreign operations mr. sean gallagher and thank you for your service to the u.s. capital police and members here. assistant chief gallagher joined

the capitol police in 2001 and january 62021 was chief for protective services bureau. we are grateful that you are here today assistant chief gallagher and we look forward tothe law enforcement response and how we can improve it in the future but her next witness is mr. sean co-founder and president seau u.s. bomb technician association. mr. dennis formerly served as the bomb squad commander of special operations sergeant for the arapahoe county sheriff's office in centennial colorado. i hope i got that name are not scripted. mr. dennis has ved in the bomb technician and explosives community for a quarter-century for over 25 years but her next witness is mr. michael keim at transit authority had k-9 detection trainer. did i get that right? closenough. mr. keim has in years as a trainer and supervise thousands of sweeps for explosive

since u.s. secret service and supervise security sweep of the dnc dnc was unavailable to testify before the subcommittee today we are looking for to hearing from mr. keim's perspective on this was that the dnc to what went right and what we'll may possibly gone on forever and mr. michael keim -- barry black a big fan of your first name by the way. former special agent and master bomb technician. mr. was the first responders to the 1995 oklahoma city bombing in 1996 atlanta olympic bombing and the 9/11 world trade center attacks. in 2022 he was awarded as an honorary u.s. force commander for security forces and military working dogs and as i said a very impressive panel experts that can help navigate us here today. we appreciate the winds is being treated look forward to your testimony. as reminder we have read your appear in the full hearing record. under committee rule nine you

are limited -- were to limit your oral presentations to a y of your written statement and consultation with reports. please remember to turn on your microphones using the button in front of you so that members can hear and if you don't i'll it will politely remind you to turn your microphones on. when you begin to speak rely on a timer in front of you and the light will turn green. after four minutes it will turn yellow. comes on your five minutes has expired. you don't have to stop midsentence but we would ask that you please wrap up once the red light has eliminated. i now recognize assistant chief gallagher for five minutes. >> of mourning mourning german latter ranking member tourists and members of the committee thank you for the invitation to testify about the january 6 pipe department greatly appreciates this committee's continued support of the men and the women of the u.s. capital police and

protec of congress visitors in the entire capital complex and legislative process agent every day. congress support has been invaluable as we continue to work on the lessons are from january 6 will increasing volatile threat environments. as you know the united states capital police is a unique law enforcement agency. the patrol campus that is completely open to the public has a constitutional right to visit at protest and petitio grounds in our officers and civilians were 24/7 to keep you safe weather here on capitol hill or when you travel to your home districts. ei mission is fast and the responsibilities have expanded immensely over theav years. the threat fixture has more from securing or building to the threat of the 9/11 scenario is the lone offender and an unprecedented increase in threats to members their families for the january 6 of

2021 however that safety was threatened in the a number of ways including the placement of two pipe bombs won one in an alley behind a capitol hill on capital grounds which is adjacent to the republicans, national committee and one of the democratic nationa committee whichee is just off the capitol grounds. that led capital grounds for their buck to walk through the events of that day with regards to the pipe bomb and then i'd be happy to answer any questions that the2021 i was in charge of our protective services bureau as a deputy chief and protective services bureau has a detection division iai cd in our investigation. and january 6 at approximate 12:44 whenever uniformed officers was notified by the republican national committee security that there appeared to be a pipe bomb located at the rear of the capitol by 12:49 and the located during the search of area. around the same time one of her k-9 technicians identified a pickup truck parked directly across the street from the rnc with a weapon in plain view and

the truck appearing to be -- a pickup truck was parked or a quick cross the street from the rnc and assets from our department hazardous device section more commonly known as responded and began to assess the device approximately 12:52. the pipe bomb was eventually disrupted by12 bomb squad and cld re 3:00 p.m.. the earlier pickup truck that i mentioned that her k-9 technician located was declared suspicious and members of our squad began to assess that vehicle athe approximately 3:25. this vehicle was found to contain 11 molotov cocktails smokelesson powder canisters canisters full of ammunition a rifle or shotgun and a handgun multiple machetes and a crossbow. the owner of the vehicle was later genocides and arrested and ultimately serving 47 months in federal prison.y the overall scene at the rnc was cleared approximately 6:30 p.m.. as0 a result of this discovery of a pipe bomb at the rnc members

of our department's counter surveillance unit as they've been trained to do begin to push out to search further locations for suspicious packages, suspicious people or similar devices. at approximately 1:00 p.m. but the part requested metro transit tode have trains bypassed the capitol south metro due to the president's of a pipe bomb. the one of 7:00 p.m. approximately 2323 minutes aftned of the pipe bomb at the rnc to a bar counter surveillance agents located what appeared to be a similar pipe bomb underneath t dnc. tannenhaus office building was evacuated at 1:11 p.m. and officers immediately in the area. the scene at the dnc was cleared at approximately 4:36 after the bomb squad disrupteded and cleared the pipe bomb. the fbi took possession of both devices and all evidence and is the lead investigation. it's my understanding both of these devices were fully functional and viable pipe bombs

however it is unclear whether they would have gone off on their own had they not been rendered safe by her bomb squad. as i noted earlier bomb squad succ extremely dangerous situation on january 6 at since that date we determined additional improvements are necessary. the department has continued to seek ways to improve their operations overhauling many of atour policies processes and implementing numerous changes related to civil operational planning training and equipment incident command and internal communication as well all the host of other areas but the january 6 are bomb squad technicians have begun receiving specialized advanced training from the atf certified explosives program. the department has a bomb technician training with an elite fbi team which is one is only 14 put a bomb squad is participating in the raven jones which includes numerous public safety squads military scenarios.

os her bomb squad remains one of largest and most capable squads in the entire country. the changes changes noted lunch or the department is better prepared to respond to any similar incidents.s. finally i want to make sure i know in this is important i'm extremely proud thatm none of these two pipe bombs nor any of the molotov cocktails that day exploded or harm to anybody this is withoutut a doubt due to the outstanding efforts of not only our bomb squad thatther members of the u.s. capital police. we know based on video surveillance of both of these before in january 6 2021. while there's footage of the suspects beat nobody has beenard by the fbi and many hours of hard work by the fbi and other law enforcement agents. i hope one day the person or persons responsible for planting these two explosive devices on capital grounds will be caught

by the fbi put dthe committee for support and we greatlys appreciate our continued partnership with congress. i welcome any questions. for five minutes. good morning chairman letter and members ofra the committee making for the opportunity today to provide background in response explosive devices and essays for my name is shaun dennis number retired sheriff sergeant from the bomb squad commander for the arapahoe county sheriff's department outside of denver colorado. after retirement i worked as a transportation security ministry to her and explosives section of the denver national airport. duringlo this time i long with a small group of military and public safety observations with similar backgrounds recognized thee need to support the bomb community. we felt underrepresented in the world were playing to keep her our homeland safe. in 2016 we informed the united states association and today we

represent over 5000 active military and public safety -- by educating those in positions of leadership. it conducts technology training to identify technology and training within the bomb community in addition we conduc i.d. tools and equipment along with research that characterizes hazardous materials. lessons learned from our training and researchro are used in public safety bomb technician with the capability render safe ieds in an effective manner. some of the critical areas in the bomb committee that we would like to highlight today include training and certificationceive basic training and certification at the hazardous devices of alabama consisting of six weaker than them. bomb technicians receive the verdict education and training from various entities such as the bureau of alcohol tobacco

firearms and explosi the fbi and the dhs office for bomb prevention. the national bomb squad advisory board provides national idelines 24 hours of multi-training in addition to required for certification every three years t technicians or professional organizations to increase knowledge and strengthened -- it's in response on technicians face challenges when called to an incident which a suspect package or hazardousaterials that identify. first and foremost they are facing a known but only the person responsible for the construction placement knows how the device functions in with them motivation are behind their malicious actions through the bombs was through the bomb squads mailing of minutes to determine those factors with the tion of life. lastly the challenges upon arrival a life-threatening challenge may include the following the initial intelligence, first responders

assess the responding bomb technician that only provide a portion of the p information required. determination of the t environment identification of single or multiple devices potential a secondary device targeted by first responders location ofrs device placement standup area with bystanders and civilians in a timely manner having the appropriate equipment available to handle the call poor weather conditions and toiate safe -- possibly remote detonation by the bombmaker based on surrounding critical infrastructure inability to remain remote. communications amongst tea center. although not present during the event that took place i'm aware of some of the challenges the bomb technicians may faced and i have experienced similar situations.if the job is inherently dangerous

but we are called upon the situation is risen to a level that most will never have to face their whole lives in the decision you make in the short perryma of time have consequence that can cost your lives in the lives around you. there's no opportunity for dual research time for further discussions. initial success or total failure. the challenges by the bomb squad on that if that works toward mary as they are required to navigate arrangers save multiple devices in and around critical infrastructure's buildings and populations addition to -- by all accounts it's in my opinion the bomb squad do with these challenges professionally and rendered safe th device. we are able to collect forensic evidence to her determined who was res proud of the bomb squad community and will contain to advocateur to ensure we have the appropriate resources personnel training and technology facing these extraordinaire challenges

to keep our community safe. thank you and i back to the chairman. >> thank you mr. keim you're recognized for five minutes. >> good morning. my name is michael keim number retired veteran of the police force. i began my career the last 12 years of my career training k-9 teams. in this role it had the responsibility of training the transit authority o police department dogs fromough their certification and utilization. we maintain training records for handlers and dogs bridger maigret d conducted force supervised in excess of 35,000 -- 35,000 explosive sweeps real-life training scenarios utilizing explosives detection dog throughout

washington d.c. metro rail systemny of my friends and colleagues from a 25 year career responded on january 62021. i'm here today to answer any questions you information that this committee deems useful. i like to think the chairman loudermilk as well as all the other committee members for your help in law enforcement. i yield back my time. >> thank mr. keim and we appreciate the time management with the hair. with the length of testimony to become a very popular witness for a lot of committees here. n letter and ranking member torres it's a pleasure to be with you this this morning but that's a guess as to consider the status of investigation regarding the subject the le the devices before the rnc and the dnc back in january of 2021. i retired in 2019 so i was not present that day but as a master

bomb technician and instructor going to member fbi status response team worldwide deployment team having been the first responders in profile events i'm familiar with the bomb investigations are conducted. .. to leading scientists where i teach classes on crime scene processing into the forensic investigation of mass disasters and one thing i tell my students as ms. torres eluded to come of the fact just doesn't exist. as a product of telev nd bullet. it's omnipresent but almost immediately point to a specific subject of a possible it was basically unavailable. investigators had to rely on what types of inves techniques the identity of the

suspect. eric rudolph the olympic bomber in place for devices over a two-year period despite forensic examinations during his identity remained elusive. it took eyewitnesses to come forward who said they sawh a of truck just before the blast in birmingham that killed a police officer. his tips similarly 17 years. i've over a dozen devices durin identity not until his manifesto until his brother provided a tip not the years of forensics examination. i once responded to the bombing of air force recruiting station as we are processing the crime scene we wereoc covered pieces of a pipe bomb and a specialized

customized timing device. because we collected that evidence for preparing it for submission to the laboratory a witness came forward and indicated they saw suspicious man driving urcycle before and after. it crossed with dmv within 24 hours we were able to execute a search warrant at that individual'sth home and recovered to fully viable time bombs to evidence recovered from this scene was witness testimony expeditiously pointed to that subject. for the january 6 was a conscious effort to disguise that person's identity identification difficult from what i have seen and public record it appears the ied's themselves very and common components that are available in your makes it

difficult to determine who purchase those components. hundreds of thousands of interviews have beened. tens of thousands of video images i've reviewed hundreds of tips. sadly, somet once he forensic evidence has beenor exhausted. once all the elites have been covered new information is nformation andhalf a million dollar reward mate one day provide the key that time and starting the dedicated women of the fbi and law enforcement will exhausted the moscow you for your time i'll be happy to try to answer any questions. >> thank you all. we will enterwill enter into the question portion now. some of you may be all of our witnesses may not have participated in hearings likeis. members will be allowed to ask questions.

they will alternates between republnd democrat have five minutes periods many have multiple questions thorough but concise we are for facts. we are just looking to review what happen and see how we can go forward. with that, one of the things is mr. black alluded to, a lot of times are just going off of evidence after the fact. fortunately we do have of the placing of the pipe bombs weill be utilizing capitolcapitol police footage. that will play to help us break these things down. there's not any audio associated with these videos. but we overlay radio communication capitol police radio communications commenced

or commencedcommensurate commenced with the video. according to the fbi both devices are plants of the month before but were discovered more than 16 hours later in the early afternoon and generally six 2021. one of the questions a subcommittee is interested in is the law enforcement response after the devices were discovered. specifically setting and maintaining round those devices. roughly 12:42 p.m. i was discovered to the rnc at approximately 1:21 p.m. two were south on first street past the rnc and entered the capitol south metro station when no police presence

up firsta person sees prete to prevent pedestrian traffic walking directly to the safe perimeter. capitol police officers been following broadcast over the play that taped. [background noises] >> traffic traffic one. sir i am people walking on first street right in front of the republican club. cook somebody's not doing their job. assistant chief gallagher. you can see a roll of yellow police tape on top the sidewalk post between first and c street. which indicates there's already been the response presence there. should a safe perimeter have

been established at first and c street by 1:21 p.m.? >> thank you chairman. for incidents of this nature the first officer on the scene will be heading up incident command and the command coast. part of the procedures to identify a perimeter and set a perimeter for a safe distance. like to clarify as these incidents are ongoing at 1:21 p.m. were done with breaches on the east front and west front of the capitol as well. man power is very distinct and where these officers were officers that come to help set up a perimeter coming from another area we don't have response teams waiting around to help s gettinghe there. >> thank you. mr. dennis in your opinion from that video it was our safe perimeter at the rnc?

>> from looking at the video it's hard to tell exactly not being too familiar with the area. but the assistant chief said is setting up a good perimeter like that for the safe distance from the bomb squad to act. it's hard to tell piss t a not. in your opinion there should have been? is that you are a priority in your experience? the bonds bomb squad is reacting such as this is extremely important for to be set up in this timely manner so they could act appropriately. >> thank you. in your opinion was there a safe perimeter at the rnc at this time? >> from that video it is kept itself. >> from the video it's tough to tell. as a k-9 officer if we show up we see a suspicious package the first thing were going to do is establish a command post and set a safe distance

away. >> in question. >> yes sir again for the video it's difficult to tell not being familiar withdi these are phases. so when the suspect device is first notice the first responding officer should set up a safer perimeter print hold that perimeter until deity assets can arrive on scene. >> okay, thank you. mr. de wn important to have a secure perimeter early on and maintain that perimeter throughout the day? why is that a to quarantine off that area? >> we follow him squad is responding setting up their own internal command post if you incidents or potential id suspect packages it is extremely important the safe distance establish with the perimeter. to make sure that everybody is both civilian as well as the even other law enforcement personnel are far eno in a safe manner so the bomb squad can act appropriately. >> thank you.

to complicate further assistant chief sa gallagher said there are multiple incidences going on. there is another instance going on at the democratic national committee. similarly law enforcement the dnc failed to secure the perimeter at a much larger scal the device the dnc was discovered at one of 5:00 p.m. after its his discovery law enforcement should have established a secure but of the span of the afternoon more than 30 different vehicles numerous civilians breached what should have been a secure perimeter. the following video shows examples of the perimeter being breached at different points in the afternoon both before and after the disruption of the device. once the bomb squad did their job disrupted the device we had incidents before and after the squid and play the state.and again this is a montage. >> seven adam priority. >> lit vehicles driving right past the package for we need to

make sure officers are posted right now. on canal in washington we are concert know whatconcerned know what walk packs the package. >> that's where the package was. the park bench there. [background noises] [background noises] for example at two oh 1:00 p.m. 21:00 p.m. capitol police officer incorrectly fire in

the hole at the rnc. when they meant to say dnc. at 205 the officer correct? fire in the hole at the dnc. what does the term fire in the hole m >> generally fire in the hole would be indicate indicative of an explosion was about to happen. t it's a range term about to detonate a charge on explosive arrange the term fire in the hole would mean explosions going to occur. proxy of the roads look out clear the area? >> yes. >> mr. dennis, what could this mistake lead to dealing in dealing with multiple scenes? there's two going on rnc dnc very similaror names. and again it was corrected at some point buty what could a mistake like that lead to? declared fire in the hole at the wrong location. yes sorry. >> obviously information is critical knowing what is going on it a partolutely critical

for command. multiple devices multiple locations, other problems in other areas complicate communication for the incident commander for. >> i'm sorry called you mr. dennis my fault. >> mr. dennis gerry thing to add to that? >> i concuras said. >> you're the same time of the dnc unmarked police car drives next to the robot as it prepares to disrupt the bomb. mr. dennis is it safer vehicle to drive within feet of the device with its viable or not after fire in the hole has been >> that will be negative. it would not be appropriate. mr. dennis should any civilian law enforcement officerd within close proximity viable or not once fire in the holes beenhole's been called? >> no. >> thank you. as you can see from the montage there are several law enforcement and to civilians in the area. even one with the planes close

to police officers and walking by looking at the robot why it's there. based on what you're telling us it's highly inappropriate. on potentially deadly is that correct? >> that is correct. >> like to discuss law law-enforcement failure to discuss the devices the morning generally six vice president-elect harris arrived at the dnc through the garage entrance. secret service conduct a security sweep of the building and its exterior. basedba on records obtained by the subcommittee secret service used to uniform division k-9 units to conduct the sweep. let me just say before role this tape we are showing all of these videos during my time at the beginning to save time labor so others may ask questions based on these videos. not just for this line of questioning was going to roll this tape of the security suite.

it is a still picture of the building on the right just foror clarity. of where the device is. [background noises] okay. at 9:28 a.m. secret service handler and the bomb dog sexist sweep of the garage outside the dnc but at one point in the bed at the handler allows a dog to inspect an area directly behind the device. hammer begins to pull away his leash and titans causing him to lose balance but let's just look at thatt again. for clarity.

at this point he goes on and turns to the right you can see his leg kick out a little bit. >> whose leg was that? >> right there right there at the actual officer thank you. what is your assessment of the effectiveness? >> mr. chairman may ask a question? we are probably0 minutes into your five minutes per. >> are about to wrap it up. we can save time later so don't to replay the video is going toit additional time. we'll be moving on veryy quickly. mr. kime what is your assessment of these the sweeps in the video. >> it appears the k-9 handler the team but doug is out in front of it is that the dog dictate where he out of the screen whenever the handler has his left leg leg and

arm go up things a the dog had a change of behavior out of our view. or the handler had a change of behavior and the handlers h dog by giving him the extra lead. you don't need unneeded pressure on the dog pulling on the lead. in causing the dog to move. depending on how well-trained the dog is and the handlers. to me he's trying to get them more lead he's had a change of behavior.ch unfortunately cannot sue soothe the is. good he could have a change of behavior. i let it be a final response like a sit would be an alert on a package that be a change behavior. the handler wanted to give him the time a decision from what i understand there is a wall there. it's hard to tell what the dog gets an alert or how it is moving. the dog decides to leave a move

away. >> wrote quickly your assessment of the sweep of the vehicle? >> a sweep of the vehicle? we start training depending on the expense of the dog we tend to put a dog on a pattern. that was a free-flowing sweep the dogs out in front and it looks like the dog has some kind of experience it's hitting sort of the spots you need to hit the weir wells the windows the handler actually pops the trunk which causes the vehicle to breathe the air inside for the dog turns away from it like it had no interest. and then it goes and finishes pretty start at one corner and go all the way around and finish the same corner you started at some times you overlap by little ay thank you. this will be the last video this is also video being used for sgastos

a poster asked quick

question -- and my remaining seconds of gentlemen earlier was about the failure of the k-9 unit to discover the bombto or the dogs infallible do they ever miss something and likely they would have missed or somethingav you necessarily would conclude bomb wasn't there during the sweep as gentlemen did and placed somehow afterward? >> no. >> dogs are dogged sometim sometimes they're having a bad day. there's several reasons dog could miss an explosive. >>s so i didn't off but is it possible in your judgment that -- the dog simply missed it that --

thatdg it could have been thereile of the sweep the dog just didn't pick it up. is that possible? >> anything is possible. we don't have a -- video of the actual sweep around thee explosive device i would say as a tol you're doing a sweep once you've completed your sweep you know it's done itnd is no longer secure. from what i've seen from stills of the pipe bomb, if i'm doing a sweep with my k-9 and i come across a park bench with that i'm not putting my dog on for or trying to get into the cone which is, you know -- we're depending chg way the wind that that becomes a suspicious package and, and if you want to upset an eod unit tell them they cleared that reung your k-9 right that's just not a -- you're literally stepping away from that as far as you can securing the perimeter. making thatan incredibly large and let them decide how

much they're going to shrink from that point on. >> where they're still on the rngd side of the sweep. but the dog, i mean, it is like a split screen i don't know what happened to the video on the other side but i guess. >> there's many reasons maybe the dog had to go to the bathroom and reasons for the dogs been searching for 30 minutes. right, and r now he' exhausted even if weather is not hots. they only have a certain amount of time they canet actually be successful. >> got it. necessarily reaching conclusion that the dog -- it wasn't that the device wasn't there and the dog could have caught -- >> it can be depending on the actual maker of the device. and how well he concealed whatever the explosive was inside the pipe. >> thank you.ve i yield back.s >> still on the right was just for reference as to where the device was. since the edge of the camera didn't cover that. so we had a still that would match up just so you could see

where the device was in relationship to the dog. another point of clarification that sweep was done by the u.s. secret service it wasn't the u.s. capitol police. and just for point of clarifice hard to understand that maybe we're not used to actually having -- a nonpartisan unbiased hearing actually try toet to we're not finger pointing we're just trying to figure out what happened. what went wrong and what went right and make sure it doesn't happen again with that i th carolinawi mr. murphy. give us mr. chairman i reiterate your point this is not to point fingers but this is a exercise an our job to provide a supervisory role and to review information and to help us something that miscues that happened during this event there was a lot going on to your point. but -- also lives were at risk very, very important cues missed in the basic line is how do we prevent that from happening in the future not pointing finger at anybody s do the same thing

in your occupying room there's a redone redo and and so thank you all for mr. gallagher, i want to continue a little bit of questioning who was responsible for the command and control of the dnc pipe scene -- >> u.s. capitol police had the distinct command and our bomb squad was lead bomb squad for the dnc scene. >> that bomb squad that would be a bomb sniffing dog? >> dog was a u.s. secret service k- >> what does that mean? >> it is one of their bomb sniffing dogs. >> there were over 30 vehicles in a pedestrian allowed to the active crime scene i thought that was gone before. i'm not a you know, a police officer anything but i would just -- assume that would be what a crime scene should have. is that fair? >> that's fair. >> what -- what types of additional training or be beneficial moving in the future

because again we're trying to learn from that episode what would happen in the future to prevent such a p command and control problems that we would have in the future? >> in the future for events like this and we have this in place w any scale accounts on capitol grounds we have mutual add so we have -- contingency plans able to handle multiple disingts multiple areas of grounds with mutual aid on site. >> thank you. >> with mutual aid on site in addition to that we haven't implemented training post january 6th for a whole host of reasons with distinct command which deals with area command scene perimeters for all sworn employees of the u.s. capitol police. >> okay. thank you. and one or 9 p.m. the camera i want to get into the camera issue facing dnc garageionin of that pipe bomb approximately 1:40 p.m. the same camera was turned away. and face south on south capitol

camera on the west side of the dnc was also turned away at 2:20 p.m. both times -- neither of the cameras were turned back. why was -- do you have any idea why the cameras were moved who did it? >> so -- that would be speculation on my part as to who -- was working the cameras there. we have trained -- command center specialist who are ones thatra uscp cameras. not be a time log of who would be working these at specific time?ou >> i don't have that with me. regard to our cameras at the dnc i'm aware of the speculation of moving some of the cameras there were three cameras that capture two that you mentioned one does move. i don't have the cram number off the top ofs move away from the dnc that goes up -- by the u.s. capitol power plant where the distinct command post wasto so you start to see it zoom in it is zooming in on u.s. capitol police command post.

location which is typical for a command center operator to zoom in on the second camera that you mention that moves -- that starts to move the catch it captures certainco areas of the dnc thatta looks like it starts to move to check on street and -- various other aspects of the response. there is one camera that capture the entirety of the scene at dnc. that captures where the pipe bomb was located evacuation of the protectee that was there. k-9 our counterviolation agent that fines pipe bomb and continues unmoved and catches robot coming down as well as the disruption. so we do have -- you knoakes whole complex city of that scene. i think it is important to note too we havee 1800 cameras on the capitol complex. on that day wey had -- >> these are man you manually moved correct? >> so somebody had to move it away from that. >> as to why speculation as to why those crams would not have been moved back -- because we probably had to two or three camera operators in our

command center and they're also dealing with the scene at rnc, and all of the breaches at the u.s. capitol as well. >> absolutely understand. absolutely understand. i think you know to the chairman's point we're just yi here this is notir a partisan issue this is -- protection of the executive branch that is prerks of the legislative branch everybody else. so -- with a that mr. chairman real quick question mr. black was that -- those were both functional pipe bombs correct? >> yes. both functional. >> thank you i yield back. >> gentlemen yields back recognize e for -- five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman i have a lot of questions'm that i want to get a point chief gallagher during course of the event on january 6th capitol police radio dispatchers were clearly overwhelmed which they should have been with the amount information being transmitted number of events occurring at the same time ensuring transmissions were on appropriate channels providing accurate info.

dispatch for example provided inaccurate information regarding evacuation routes of civilians from thewrong address for distinct comapgd post locations wrong callback numbers and in many cases the dispatchers express confusion. i've been ond the other side of that radio i've been on the other side of the radio when -- you know, this stuff is hitting the the other side of that radio that are able to calm everyone down and get them the correct information. can you brieflyties of dispatches for the capitol police? >> sure, so our dispatchers are responsible for -- basically the lifeline for the officers out in the field anything they need to go through the radio. the dispatchers are. highly competent dispatchers. that are set up to handle multiple incidents they've got overwhelmed that day just like the officers got overwhelmed as well. >> absolutely, and this is -- sort of not on the same topic but from my knowledge our civilian members of the police part of the faculty? >> no they are not.

>> their trainings with dispatch training do you believe that they receive adequate training? >> i do believes they've received adequate training. >> and continuous training? >> yeah. okay. moving to something different -- at approximately 13:13 hours united states states capitol police officer distinct for the dnc pipe bomb after it took multiple attempts to secure an distinct commander dispatch finallynd established distinct commander provideded an incorrect location for that distinct commander. a second officer answered over the radio att the mistake by providing two additional locations which were also incorrect this led dispatch toeously call out another incorrect location for the dnc pipe bomb. i know the answers to these questions. and i'm just trying to get to piengt iss this k confusion mono? common? >> this kind of confusion is --

not common with this type of incident with multiple explosive devices, breaches at the west front east front it is a chaotic scene as you -- >> in a perfect world one that we neverer operate in, obviously what we would want to happen is ul aftnd information clear, precise and what we need. did the failure to establish an distinct command luent breaches of the perimeter? >> iou ssources and officers between not only u.s. capitol police, metropolitan police that was their primaries jurisdiction as able to secure that perimeter iss what caused people in vehicles to traverse it. >> okay. so lastl i want just comment on ms. torres remarks in the beginning. that we're at a point of a finger we serve a purpose here and house administration and

that is to provide oversight to the capitol police. and it is also our job to provide the resources the training and everything that necessary so that you can do the job that you're supposed to do. and you -- made a comment chief and your quote -- that you and the department has or specifically you not shied away from the failures of that day. if that doesn't mark the remarks of a true leader, i'm not sure what does and i would serve under your a command any day and our job to make sure those failures that's what we're here to do we're not here to point fingers or talk about not here to -- ms. torres said monday morning quarterback there's no time to monday morning quarterback any distinct that polntil they wear the gun belt until they pin that shield on their -- on their chest, they have no ideaea what law enforcement officers do every day. but it is our job as part of this committee again to provide you everything that you need.

and when we have incidents -- like this or any other incidents if we're not going to take the time to critique it and take time to see what happened what went well, then we're not doing our job and neither are you. right the purpose of this is to find ways that we can improve. if protocols fail we need to train them and training fail we need to do better and more resources we need to work better agencies to keep people safe then we need to foster those relationships. mr. chairman i yield back. >> i thank the gentlemen -- and i think that was a -- a good way to wrap up this hearing here today. i appreciate everyone being here. we have -- chief here with us today as well as other members of the leadership.. the chairman of the capitol police union gus i'm not going to tree to pronounce the last name but i think everybody knows -- who he is, i appreciate all of the witnesses being here i would

like to just -- offer one piece of clarification to make sure i understand this right mr. thyme we were talking about u.s. secret service and the dogs. i want to make sure you understand -- understand what your response was that --ist it is not the dogs responsibility to identify the device but the handler so the fact that the device was -ñse by, would it not be the actual handler who should have noticed it not just relying on the dog? >> yes. when you have a k-9 team it is team for a reason you have the dog and hand her. the handler is looking for -- areas anything to put the dock on to use the advantage of the dog by dogs 40% stronger smell sense of smelling than we do. so the dog is to find what we can't see.

hand her position is to locate the areas to -- as you're doing aattern search and see that you wouldn't put your dog on that explosive pipe or suspicious package. you would back off. >> thank you important for clarification we're not trying to point fingers at the dog for not doing his job but to get a better understanding of how this works. i that they went through and stooded line that day. it was a very bad day. and we want to continue to do our oversight as mr. ds said not to point fingers but make sure we correct what was done and depoliticize capitol police able to do your job without politicization as pect of it and make sure that you have training and resources you need to do a very difficult job. again, thank you all for being here. members of the sub committee may have some additional questions -- for you and i can pretty much assure you that we do.

and we ask that you -- that you please respond to these in writing. we will submit these questions you will respond in writing. without objection each member will have five legislative days to insert additional material into the record or revise extend remarks no further business i thank members with their participation without objection this sub committee stands adjourned. [silence]

[inaudible conversations] tonight a look at u.s. strategy in the pacific islands officials from the state department and pentagon and u.s. agency for international

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