tonight.

going to have an opportunity to hear from dr. jeffrey oji ogba and i just want to say that this book, america's black capital, is a really profound new way of looking at the history of atlanta. and so it's only fitting that his first author talk in atlanta, be here at the atlanta history center are many of you all already have read the book, but some of you all might not might not be aware of his background. but professor ober is, a professor of history, and he's also the founding director of the center for the study popular music at the university of and

he received his ph.d. from indiana university, bloomington and he received his undergraduate degree a bachelor of art in history from, morehouse college and. he's previously written two books. his first book was black power radical politics and african american identity, and he wrote hip hop revolution. the culture and politics of rap. so this is his third book. and having read his first book, it was a great book. but this book broke new ground. and without further ado, i want to welcome to the stage dr.

jeffrey oji obaa. good everyone to say it's a pleasure to be here would be an understatement. i know sounds cliche, but when i was writing this book, i had these sort of aspirations and dreams and i told the marketing guy at basic books that when we talked about doing the tour, i said, there is a there are a lot of places in atlanta where i'd like to give a talk. i love the atlanta center. and i was like, oh, okay, great. you know, and weeks went by and he was like, yeah. i said, hey, what's up? these places like, oh, man, i'm trying, but you know, i can't, you know, they got to wait after the holidays. i said, okay so then the book came out in november and, then december.

i was like, well, you know, was up and he's like, amy, you know, we tried, but, you know, they got a lot of stuff that's in high demand, they got a lot of things going on. and then rodney strong stepped in and rodney strong was like, we'll make it happen. in fact, he was so enthusiastic and so generous that he came to me and he said something that i never and i'll say this, i don't mean to sound like characteristically, i genuinely never thought that a two term in the history of atlanta in 170 plus years that the mayor who's gotten more votes cast by the citizens in the entire history of all the mayors in atlanta's 60 plus mayors was the honorable madam shirley franklin it. i. i was told i was writing i bring this down and and it turns out

that the mayor franklin happened to come across the book as she reached out to to rodney and said she really it and then she said again, i'm getting into the book. i'm really enjoying it. and he sent me a tweet. i was like super excited. i merely ran out. i ran to social media, hey, look, look, look what mayor franklin said about my book was, like, super excited. and so so he was like, he's like, you call, me up. he's a man show, you know? so. but we might be able to do something, but, you know, just keep a chill for a little bit, right? and we might be able to do something. and there are three places where i think we be able to do it. and atlanta history center, his number one choice. i didn't actually it was your choice although it had always been i would like to have a book launch and i say enough what it means to look into the crowd and see people who are so important to so many institutions in the city of atlanta in so many different ways. it means a lot to see so many people here. i'm extraordinarily humbled, have this stage and share with mayor franklin the generosity. rodney strong there's so many

people i could name many people friends and family who are here and i thank you all for coming out. the generosity again from griffin is strong and from the russell company. thank you. in l.a. business league, many others i to start by saying that the is itself a long arc of the history of atlanta and there are many books in fact i would argue that there are few cities that have as many books dedicated to their histories than atlanta pound for pound and atlanta has an extraordinary corpus literature dedicated but to but there are a lot of the histories are to certain places right so there are books that are solely committed to the siege of atlanta in 1864 during the civil war. fantastic. that go into great detail right? there are books that solely are committed to the civil rights movement and some are committed to just certain organizations, the civil rights movement. right. so there are books that look at so many different things.

and there's a general idea from the scholarship that many of us in the room have heard this atlanta, a city too busy to hate. and that actually up in the literature and, you know, i'm born in chicago, raised in los angeles. i came here, by the way, i have to draw attention to when mr. strong talked about where i went to school. he paused for dramatic effect. i said morehouse college, like a true morehouse man, visually large man's would be proud. and so so so but when i came to atlanta in in 1987 and i saw a city that was much blacker than anything i'd ever seen in chicago or los angeles, and just the proportion of people there were more black people in los angeles, more black people, chicago than atlanta. the proportion in 1990, the census had atlanta at 67, 67% black. l.a., maybe 18%. and so maybe a third at that time. and so it was an extraordinarily black city. and at that point, i saw across

the city at morehouse, there was lee street. they went past morehouse i saw civil war markers. i was too poor to live on campus. i lived in decatur my freshman year, first semester, freshman year in decatur. and on my way on that memorial bus, i saw markers for the civil war, confederate stuff. and then on my way to decatur, i saw all these signs for stone. i like stone mountain, like, yeah, everybody goes to stone mountain. and you have these these confederates and white supremacists and enslavers who are terrorists. who are these up in this? and people are just chilling right. and then i was like, this is kind of hard to one be the black mecca and then have monuments, streets and neighborhoods named after why supremacists and enslavers and terrorists. i was like, this seems kind of you know, i'm saying in same different but i want to make sense of it and it was kind of hard so. i was always curious about how atlanta came to be, but there's no book there really bothers because. there are books that talked about this and that, but this book actually looks at the long arc of the city from its

beginnings in the antebellum period until 2023. and so i it all the way up and i interview people and it's no i'm saying a whole bunch about wrongness wrong but in all honesty, rodney strong has been dismissive certainly for the second part, the last part of this, and i spent more time interviewing rodney song with morehouse, with his cousin, and at least wrong man was instrumental connecting us. and i thank you for that. thank you for your time. and i'm really glad that like the finished product what i want to do now is talk about the book and give you five major takeaways of the book and see if i can in about 25 minutes, give you some, some examples of what has been over these years. first all of us of all of us familiar with the the city too busy to hate was mayor hartsfield in 1959 quipped that the was a city too busy to hate and it kind of is stuck and a

lot of people would like is a city to busy hey we're making all these moves and we ain't got time to be blowing up churches, killing people and stuff because we making money and so i was like, you know me just listen what the historical record says and and when i looked at historical and again anyone who knows me and, there are some people here who know me well, i always say this. i'm trying to be dispassionate about the data. let's say what? let's look at what the data tells us. and it turns. so many people are surprised that of all these cities in the united states of america and all the cities in the south are recalcitrant, who are obstinate, who hostile to desegregation, that when it came to the school system in atlanta we have the image of ruby bridges, that little girl in new orleans. right, with federal marshals. we have the images of those little kids from rock central high. those nine children, that little girl isolated from the other eight walking in a horde of vile, horrible, hateful little kids and adults, grown adults. and we have these images and

like, hey, atlanta doesn't have those images. we have the images of rosa parks and the right we have the images of dr. arrested because he was in this boycott. we have these images, but we don't have those images for atlanta. and we've heard this, a city too busy, to hate, turns out. and we know birmingham and god, his soul, those four girls. so we know about birmingham and we know about dynamite hill and birmingham and birmingham. it turns and i'm not the first person to find this one particular fact about burning man. turns out that there was a civil rights organization in the 1960s that looked at resist and to the civil rights movement and looked at terrorist attacks, looked at bombings. it turns out that atlanta had more terrorist bombings in birmingham. did we look at the school system. the reason we don't have the images is because atlanta did not segregate its public school system. we didn't have a ruby bridges. we we'd have a little rock now because atlanta stay far. they were like the governor said, i will close all the schools down before i integrate right. the absence of the images did not mean that there was a

presence of justice. right. and so what you have in these distorted narrative was fascinating. i was like, how is it that atlanta has been the city that we hear all the stuff about but the facts on the ground suggest otherwise? the busses in atlanta were integrated a year after the busses in montgomery. in fact, the picture of rosa parks sitting there finally sit on the bus. you can do that in atlanta at that time. you still can do it. atlanta and king was from he didn't come here to desegregate the busses or anything. right. and i love. king i'm i anything but but the fact is that atlanta was more recalcitrant than these other cities in many respects, scientifically, if we look at integration of schools with integration of neighborhoods, we think about the we think about grady hospital. we go through this whole line of metrics of the in the united states of america, atlanta almost always is at the bottom, which is fascinating. but yet is a city too busy to so i want to see how we get that city into the city in 2024, atlanta, 2024 is a first city in the history of the united states of america, a major city to have

for 50 years now. and newark, new jersey, has a non-african-american mayor and acting mayor for a period. you could throw newark there if you want, right? we had a non-african-american mayor, but atlanta, if you don't count that short period. l.a. is the first city in the united states of america. go 50 years straight with a black mayor, right? no united states has ever done before. atlanta has given. yourselves applause. right. you see all the flaws. but but atlanta also in addition, having all these accolades about the business successes, highest concentration of black millionaires, high concentration of black owned businesses african-americans are now about 50% of the population, over 50%. police officers over firefighters, they are over 50% of the 75%. the teachers. last i checked, the city administration is disproportionately african-american, african-american have a firm control of the social, economic, political in atlanta in ways you don't see any other city. so the question is, and over the

last years, no city in the united states of america has drawn more people this metro than atlanta, right by far. so atlanta now 2024, there are more black in a metro area than any metro in the united states of america, except for new york city. and so there's no fundamental transfer station from atlanta. and this book explore that. i'm still curious. i was curious like how that happened, but i'm a surprised everyone here. i'm a i'm a real excerpt and this to be while this will be real crazy, i'll tell you about what atlanta was like and its origins like we all have an origin story all right each of us individually we all have origin stories. cities have origin stories. and the origin story for atlanta really demonstrates the improbable, capable future that we eventually and i'm going to talk about. a lot of people don't know this. i know this. and so and i'm actually embarrassed to say i should i should keep this to myself i should ask just keep this with me. and god. i didn't i got to have a ps2 in

history. history. i'm a i do u.s. re since 1865. so that's my my savings saving grace that i didn't know this, but we are one of the most celebrated presidents of the united states was abraham lincoln and lincoln is celebrated by so many people all across the country and we think of lincoln this two term president of course, tragically assassinated in the beginning of his second term, abraham lincoln was about to lose his his pursuit for the second term. so in the middle of the war, the war began in 1861. and i'm read a little bit about that. but atlanta was central to how abraham lincoln won reelection. it was critical to how abraham lincoln won reelection. abraham lincoln was very, very clear. his the people in his inner circle, people in his own cabinet thought that he was too weak kneed. they thought that he was too milquetoast, thought that he did not have the backbone, the military expertise and ability to command the troops they

thought that he was too soft on the confederates and these traitors against, the united states. and there were people in his party, including a man named john fremont, had been a general who was fired by abraham lincoln because he issued an 1861 a year before lincoln came of the emancipation proclamation in fall 62, and it was implemented on january 1st, 63, abraham lincoln fired a general because this general said, i will issue a for masturbation of these people who are enslaved in my military and in missouri. and lincoln was like, rescind that freedom. i'm not going to rescind that. he's like i said, i'm the commander in chief. rescinded he didn't do it. he fired him. and then a year later, he has this thing. but people thought he was too weak kneed. people said that he's not that when the war and himself confided in his closest folks that i may lose this war, he went to frederick douglass, like frederick douglass, i think i'm going to lose reelection. let's see if we could get together a clear decision group to go in and free as many people

as we can. and some like underground army. right. so he was really trying to do this. he changed. he was not about that life early on, but towards the end, lincoln had to have had some moral revelatory moments. all right. so so let's let's look at how ilana responded to the beginning of the war this is this is your city. this is your city. and see how your predecessors, what they would talk about in when the war began, the local newspapers were about what the war portend for the city and the region i quote upon point, he is perfectly plain. atlanta intelligencer newspaper wrote about lincoln. he decides war. we are prepared to meet it. we are united and homogenous. this as a people every man. the south is a soldier unquote. the paper wrote in classic form the 44% of the state's population that was black and almost entirely held in chains, or the 35% of people in the

region south in similar conditions with remarkable confidence. the paper concluded that the confederacy was a formidable military force and the citizens of would rise up to serve with alacrity as article concluded. we say to lincoln and his more minions come on. and they were ready for fight right? a month later, the gate city guard left service in florida, where the confederates plan to surround, if not capture a u.s. military installations, including fort pickens, pensacola, the atlanta and the trout hotel. two of the main hotels in the city were with excitement as thousands of atlantans cheered and, gathered celebrations, the rebels, as they went off to war. the city was ready to support white southern nationalism with force. in 1861, scores of cities from hapeville, maine, to quincy, illinois, including more than a dozen southern, were more populist than atlanta. despite a small, small population atlanta was an important cog in the confederate

war machine. by 1863, the york times reported that the city was an important network, quote, furnished and it furnished half of war material to entire confederacy from the rappahannock to the rio grande, unquote, that the war was in. its third year surprised many people and people on both sides that the war would have been over by then. so so at point, the new york times is very clear that. atlanta is important to the machine. and i want to draw your attention to one quick fact before i go back to this. when confederacy seceded, when states seceded and formed the confederacy in 1918 61, beginning in south carolina, 1816 and 1861, they needed a capital and they looked at literally hundreds of possibilities throughout the south. and there were two finalists, richmond and georgia. so atlanta almost the real capital of the south. but richmond was decided the vice president for the confederacy, was actually from alexander stephens.

and one of the things he argued was that we needed virginia, the confederates needed virginia because they had this large population of military age men and did not, in fact, the political capital. but as we'll see here, it became a capital for the confederacy. other ways. the intelligence in newspaper, like people in the north and south, understood critical importance of the city. so the war's there was, quote, no greater prize in the confederacy outside of richmond. robert o'connell notes quote, if the south had a workshop for war, it was atlanta. and then johnson who was a general for confederacy, said, should atlanta fall fearful indeed will be the response ability. the richmond of virginia is virginia, but the political richmond is a political richmond but the richmond in georgia is atlanta, which the is more important. atlanta means that if atlanta collapses the confederacy, a war machine will collapse. and therefore the war effort will collapse.

so when all this is on the united states seems to be in a stalemate, the war was on, lincoln was up for reelection. there. people who were in his own party saying that they want to do a sort of veritable coup de cut. and lincoln said this. you said, i am going to be a beaten man unless some great change happens and it happens quickly in their oppressive summer heat of georgia in 1864, williams to sherman, patiently establishing campmates along the stretch of the city and began brutal siege. this is one of the biggest sieges in modern war up to this point, if not the biggest. they laid waste to the city of atlanta to quote him, he said that whatever becomes of atlanta, it will be left a desolation. and there's a really cool quote that confederates would not like, but i enjoy. and this is a quote from william tecumseh sherman when he came to atlanta, the of atlanta brown was like he you need to get everybody to throw everything they have against these invading vandals, these yankee vandals up to no good. and if you have a rock, throw a

rock at them. if you got sticks, sticks at them, you show them that that we stand for southern nationalism and everything else. so so said this, he said as he came in, he said, i'm paraphrasing here. he said, confederates are to say that they are willing to die, in a pool of their own blood and give up an inch to the yankees. i'm here to allow themselves to be true to their word. and. so the war was devastating to the city. the war destroyed the city and came to an end and one of the things that happened in, the war, however, it disrupted racial politics of the city and very, very ways. i won't get a chance to talk a lot about about this now, but there are a number of figures that become important to african-americans in the city. the first black landowner in the city, atlanta, was a woman who was born in 1865. and in augusta she her name was laura kelly.

laura kelly moved to atlanta with a white doctor. there was a was a typhoid or some sort of outbreak. and this guy dr. alexander moved to atlanta and he a servant with him. and this black woman came no black person could enter the city of atlanta. lana was so hostile that no black person could enter the city of atlanta without approval from the city council. but if they came in and they were here five days without approval, they could be arrested and leased to work white people. so, in effect, enslaved. so you do not declare yourself in five days with approval. you could be enslaved. atlanta also the black people were here, there were there was one family. the lucky solomon lucky was the first wealthy black person in atlanta history. solomon owned a barber and a sort of spa, the atlanta hotel. and it wasn't bizarre that a city that literally outlawed black organization, any sort. there could be no black social club. there were illegal, no black

were allowed. they were illegal. obviously, schools black people are not allowed to learn how to read or write. write if. they did. they were, in fact, it was it was illegal to be a scribe so all of these things were the sort of environment of laina would happen though, which is interesting is that in the fog of war, these african-americans were there during the siege found operating without the constraints of law as sort of this of civil society eroded around them. there was one black guy who became webster, who became, by many cases, one of the wealthiest people in the city of atlanta, who was a quasi he was quasi enslaved. and this guy became this this wealthy guy who did all sorts of things. i tell the story. it's too much to say here. let's go back to laura combs just very quickly. laura combs is a black woman who ended up moving to atlanta. she all the about 99% of black people were enslaved here. so she found this man named john john combs. john combs was enslaved. these two white women who inherited him.

right. as a child. and john combs, a slave by these two women. and mary kelly fell in love with a guy. they fell in love with each other. and she wanted to free him. it was against the law in georgia for someone to a black person to buy anyone who was enslaved. so the two white women made a deal with laura combs. keep in mind, in 54, she became the first black landowner in the city. she got a parcel of land and the lots we have documented. and she turned this over to the combs sisters and the combs sisters, in effect gave her her husband and she left augusta and we left atlanta and then went to augusta fast her that alexander dr. alexander, who he was a guardian who helped her buy that land. that dude became a hardcore confederate right. he served in the military a surged as a doctor. he came back and he established a medical center. medical center became emory's medical center right. her children, her son actually served in the military one of

her sons, served in the military became a band guy in military and and anyone who knows anything about the history of jazz. we know the jazz emerged in new orleans but had his origins with african-americans, with military experience. he was one of those guys. he moved to new orleans and this guy became the first generation of jazz innovators in the world. right. he actually had another son who graduated from morris brown and became a professor and another son is the craziest part right here. another son who went to russ college and then started dating this young lady student, and her name was ida. her name was out of barnet. and so but check this out is not in the story. so he's daddy ida burnett and then he's like, you know what, ida? cool. you know, you all good? everything but i want to break you. i want to break up. and she heart is broken and he has a mary, a woman in town and. she talks and the biography of ought to be well says that ought to be wells was so heartbroken

by the reminding by being constantly reminded of this love by seeing this man with his wife in this little town in mississippi that she refused to engage in a commitment to any person in a state, committed herself and threw herself into work. and in the process became this investigative journalist. she became this person who fought to get the most famous american goes listening. she became friends with frederick douglass, friends with one with dubois. she, of course, you know, this new book. she had these amazing things, but she married her thirties, was very late at the time but she is so heartbroken to her biographer because of laura collins's son, who broke her heart. all right. but alana is everywhere right up. and so i want to tell this one story about how black people came to atlanta quickly after the war. and then i'm a jump all the way up to the 1950s. this is a fascinating about a term that i use. i introduce in this book called

afro determinism and. people were even pedestrian, if you're familiar with afro-american history, just a pedestrian way, you'll know about what about to talk about, right. so and scholars typically look at afro-american positions as falling into camps. we have the nationalist camp, which is like marcus garvey and you and i the nation of islam, where they say black people will get freedom by creating their own separate black nation state, political sovereignty, their own government or military on paper, money, everything right, black everything, country somewhere else. then you have a position of integration which some there are some c.p. would believe in this but the idea. so to paraphrase these some advocates of integration that they hope to see african-americans as woven into the fabric of the united much in the way that european immigrants like irish poles and -- were woven into the fabric of america. right? this idea that we get kind of subsumed into americanism. and then there's another

position a more conservative position that we all know associate with, because the washington accommodation was more conservative. you know, i'm going be an activist like the naacp. i'm going be a nationalist like these, you know, nation of islam or malcolm or garvey. i'm just just to accommodate the situation to the best i can with the circumstances in front of me. but i argue there's a fourth position. and this fourth position, i argue, is the dominant expression not for black folks in atlanta, but certainly for african-americans. after the black power. and the position is comes up in this book, all of us have of 40, 40 acres and a mule. it turns out that this is, again, tied to the atlanta experience in chapter three, the shaman comes to atlanta, destroys it, does a smart, sassy, gets to savannah, but right before he gets to savannah, has a general under him who's, ironically named jefferson davis. his name literally is jefferson davis. he's a union right now, not the confederate president. and this do have as a just he does something really horrible

to a whole bunch of black folks who i just it just really, really terrible thing. the federal government finds out that he did this terrible thing. so these african-americans were fleeing and they jefferson davis pulls a bridge up and they drown in water. and these confederates lay these women and children just a horrible, horrible. so the secretary of war comes down to savannah and says, general sherman, thank you for being this formidable general, you're kicking -- and taking names. i love. i leave and these dudes called and, you know, hurt. i like what you're doing to these confederates. this is great. but we that you are in fact anti --. the word racism didn't exist yet but you like i heard there's your anti -- and he's like what do you mean it's a --. and i like these --, you know? i mean, i heard this. you're out here killing this officer. hey, man, watch this. so actually invites 20 black men in 20 black men who are can see seen as leaders in the savannah. and they're coming from all over and in moment in savannah in the early in january of 1865, he asked them the secretary war

stanton asked them a series questions. and among these questions he asked him, where do you want to the black community in relation to whites and and the major speaker the group is a guy named garrison frazier gearshift frazier, who's a minister. he's like, you know. what? i know. i'm speaking for the whole group for every you've asked me, but for this question i choose to answer it for my own position because i don't want to offend anybody, you know. so, you know, caucasians, you i don't want to offend you. i'm going to say how i think so they said speak freely. so you say, i think that black people two things. i think that won't find black people more than a handful among. the millions across the south who are not fully loyal to the united states. he he's okay. they're willing to serve in the right to show fidelity to the united states and the presence upon which the united states stands. but i think they also would like to have land for their own that right now. they don't believe that white southerners will believe in justice.

fair ness, democracy or anything and that we would be best served by controlling institutions, force about black people in our own community. and we would like some land. and so he's like okay. cool. let me ask other people and everything go person that group except for one guy named jason. ironically his last name can't make this up. his last name is lynch. it is. do swear to god is the craziest thing like that happens right? so if there's a novel, you think this is ridiculous, right? it's like this all on the nose. but this dude is one guy named jason lynch. obliged. he's like, he's like, no, no way. southerners are great. we don't have any problem. white southerners. they can be. i don't believe in all that about having separate land and everything. we have a we should be integrated with the white people here. they can be our friends. and you know, jason lynch was wrong. as we find out, lynch was real wrong. but this is what happened. this meeting. stanton told he told general sherman's sherman, i heard these people. you heard these people. you need to do. he said, bet i'm a come up with a policy. he thought about it and came up policy said they want land, they

want to control their own institutions. i am giving them 40 acres. there was no mule actually. i'll give you 40 acres. so all these confiscated from all these traders who have turned themselves their own country. and that's where i actually comes from. and it was just again, tied here to this narrative. all right, drop glasses. all right. so now i'm going to jump up to the in the war and then we'll see. all right. here we have atlanta had been a small town before the war, but expanded in the years to follow an influx of black and white people into profound ruptures, forced into existence, profound of racial order, black, unfettered by enslavement, moved about the streets, rolled streetcars cars, peddle goods open and businesses and built homes. they forged new sense of collective self in the city, free black citizens in a world that only recently consider the concept to be a front to law and nature. despite the promise of atlanta,

the majority of georgia's black population remained in rural areas. some, however with no promise of refuge employment or even greater justice struck for the gates city in hopes that they will find a wider sense of freedom community safety. an opportunity migrations. the city was not exclusive to black people. many local whites were particularly hostile black newcomers. many use alarmist language to describe the flocking to atlanta white. observers complained that they that their cities, that their city was being overrun by crowded, packed by these worthless --, unquote. in addition to the sheer numbers of black people in the city, the notion that these people were unsafe, the absolute control of white enslavers was especially troubling. the presence of black people is not unusual for most white southerners, but the sight of free black people evoke discomfort, if not outright rage and fear. nearly half of the city in 1870 was black, for context, into the

19th century. as late as 1930, african-americans were single digit percentage of chicago, new york, los angeles, other cities. so single digits. these other places around 19 tan, they were the average percentage was about 2.7% in cities outside. so half is extraordinary at that time. when you think the cities across the south and this is important here to this idea of force of termism and what people did in atlanta in the late 19th century across the south, the significance of the july 4th diminished as a confederacy form, its own nationalist identity, and new republic following the war, july reemerged in atlanta as a vibrant, vibrant affirmation of american nationalism and freedom however and this is critical here, it was dominated by the city's black citizens. the atlanta daily intelligencer described the festivals and the festivities of fourth 1867, two years after the war. quote, the celebrations of this city in was surrender almost

entirely, if not wholly, to by our citizens of the -- population who appeared our streets in the high state of enthusiasm many amidst throngs from the early morning, a late hour in the evening, unquote. the paper that's my southern accent, as you guys could tell. the paper reported how atlanta's citizens had been marginal ized. this was this. the paper reported how atlanta's citizens had been marginalized by the -- population who organized conspicuous oaths to freedom. the and their own american citizenship in some ways, these gatherings were subversive in, bold black atlantans. this 1867 in grand public spectacle subvert, its southern nationalism by pedestals and symbols that have been maligned and hated by confederates. for example, a group of african-american is from the city's third ward organized, the lincoln union republican club one banner from the fifth ward read the death of slavery july

4th, 67 for the city's white and black citizens. civil and national pride was deeply marked by the legacy of the confederate. for black people, the size and character of the city, including the federal troops, afforded new expressions of freedom that were civic in nature. these were part of a social civic body that never before existed. any pleasure allegiance. the united. and he made that quite clear. keep mind there was a presence of u.s. soldiers in atlanta at that time which allowed them to do this with some protection. at the same time, after his celebrated independence day, thousands of white atlantans gathered annually on april 26. i'm not sure how many people here know what april 26 signifies to celebrate confederate memorial day. like the groups of neo-confederate and confederate sympathizers across the south, locals adorn cities, graves of fallen rebels and parades, heard speeches and otherwise exhaust the lost cause. for their part black atlantans. in addition to july, they said, we're going to add another to

our celebration in the civic space they created july four first as emancipation day, the anniversary of the emancipation proclamation was an opportunity to celebrate and honor the legacy of abraham lincoln's war time attempt to liberate many people from slavery. african-americans marched to the streets, american flags, and joyfully brought in the new year while affirming their own deliverance from hundreds of years of bondage. so it's kind of interesting to see how atlanta, in many ways found this space to carve out an articulation of blackness that was tied. one to their own freedom and in many ways disregard the celebration of confederate legacies and it was particularly in the late 19th century, one of the things that i think many people were surprised by i'm a jump all the way up quickly to the 1950s, and i earlier in the talk that atlanta was this sort of like backwards when it came to civil rights movement. and this is really surprising to most people. almost everyone here we've all

heard the term gentrification right. so gentrification was by a scholar who was studying the process of high socioeconomic status, people moving into low socioeconomic status neighborhoods in britain. she's looking at on white gentrification. and so gentrification was never tied to race americans have a really difficult time, race and class. we can't sort of collapse blacks as being poor and whites as being affluent. but but keep in mind that gentrification is strictly defined. higher socioeconomic status move people into a lower economic status neighborhood. all right, so now let's at atlanta. so after world war to the united states, the four housing administration, you have this we have four fha loans. you have guarantee loans with authority. all the united states by law, by federal law, they cannot. and the term is not to violate the 14th amendment, as is lawyer as counselor, strong will say here, they don't violate the forcing the member because they don't say these loans can't be made to black people.

they say that loans be made to people who will disrupt the racial integrity of our neighborhood. right. so so so what it means, like if you are a veteran of the war you serve war, say you're part of the 442nd japanese-americans you've done everything right. right. you came back, you killed a whole bunch of nazis. your arm got blown up. you've done everything. you got all these honors, everything. you can't get a guaranteed loan from the government in anaheim because it's not majority asian, right? it would be racially subversive. you cannot get a loan in any of your neighbor american. you're a code talker, right? you help defeat the japanese and you can't because you're not white, can't go to a suburb. so suburbia became all white across the united states. the consequence not because people don't want to move there. they cannot they get a loan. right. so but the thing is, keep in mind, you could do it. there was a loophole if you were able to build a suburb, if you had a bank, if you had money, if you had development companies, if you had real estate agents, if you had this whole economic,

financial that was willing to make it happen and used it, it started from ground up as all asian, all black, all neighbor american, you can make it happen. it didn't happen in los angeles, my hometown. it didn't happen in chicago. it happened atlanta. let's hear about it. and why it is now. well, the early 1950s, african-americans and this chapter talks about the resistance. morehouse in the west, in and in western is super black and everything. but the west end used to be a point for integration in the klan in the west. and they said they want to build a big white wall in the west end. so keep -- out. right. they were shooting in houses, aka blowing up houses, all kind of stuff, right? it were wild out. and so at this point when all this is on, african-americans decide something, say we need space, we want to create a we will create new homes by the early 1950s. and keep in mind, early 1950s montgomery bus boycott doesn't have a 1955. right. so in this like late december 55, since the early 1950s, african-americans definitely

into motion project x with the help of local black leadership, the atlanta urban league to the largest, most extensive upscale black suburban development in the country. in the postwar period, the city had two real estate boards. the atlanta real estate board and the black real estate board. in 1946, the president, the former told his members that they were, quote, under no obligation to sell the -- in predominantly white areas, unquote. however, the black board largely partnered with white counterparts, to seek ways to make separate but equal more than just rhetoric. i'm a skip to the chase real fast. but greystone wins. hamilton, head of the atlanta urban league and the group's housing director, robert worked with white authorities to access -- expansion areas where black residents can obtain housing. and they looked around metro atlanta. they found an area named after some confederates called collyer heights. y'all a real atlanta is here because you know where i'm going with this. the black newcomers they decided that they it was a sparsely area

and they said we don't want to spook everybody no pun intended. we don't want spook anybody. so let's be quiet. but was purchased a whole bunch of acres to see where this goes. atlanta uniquely had citizens trust bank, a black owned bank. they had a black construction. they had a black development company, have like real estate agents. they black investors that all black in the early 1950s, something other cities did not have as a consequence they built color heights these gentrifiers and this is the fascinating thing here the black newcomers were generally than the whites who lived in collier heights class proved to be have effect in the mitigating the anger that black families experienced constructing quote, gleaming new middle class houses. the black newcomers proved to be when the earliest waves of gentrifiers the city despite widely perceived to the contrary african-americans could in fact be judged. pfizer proved to be that in this moment. the influx of high says families raise their real estate prices.

collier heights, the black georgia fires developers, homebuyers. banks purchased thousands of acres of land to the west of a holdout white neighborhood in 1953, two years before montgomery, a local white newspaper assuming local white homeowners association, argued that, quote, it was a moral issue to resist open housing and that white neighbors continue home the line. the southwest citizens association appealed to whites not to sell their homes to black families. we ask, be a fair minded individual to refuse to make a fast dollar the expense of the majority in what has always been a white community, unquote. in 1954, however, all 135 white owned holdout homes were sold, relinquishing the area to the national development company, making collier heights the largest upscale black suburb in united states of america. so so this story. because the story, which is kind of fascinating i must say, i'm

running out of time, i'll give two quick things about myths about atlanta. all of us have heard the harlem renaissance, all of us have heard about all the fancy stuff going on in harlem in the 1920s and 1930s. it turns out that if you take 125th street in harlem, according historian jake dorman, none of those businesses were black owned. this is story and jake dorman from the university of california, los angeles, does undergrad at stanford, who's written all these books and does a book on atlanta. he does a chapter on the harlem renaissance. he talks about regular in harlem. he said, although you have these exceptional cases of people who did well, it was amazing to see the degree which black businesses did not prosper in harlem, in atlanta, in this period in the 1920s and 1930s, african-americans at this point in all the cities, united states of america, only one city had a higher percentage of black folks. it was birmingham, alabama, then atlanta, georgia. atlanta, georgia already had a disproportionately high number of black people of all the cities in the united states,

there was one black daily newspaper was a chicago defender, was the amsterdam news. it wasn't the washington bee, it was the atlanta world. atlanta had created a military had created a military offshoot. they created a media by the 1940s, a chain newspapers of the 1940s. atlanta had distinguished itself as exceptional space of black achievement early on. so this book explores that as well. and this harlem renaissance historians have moved away from to talk about the national impact of this blossoming of energy of intellectual work and artistic work at this time. so this also comes up here finally at the very moment this all happens, which is surprising to a lot of people. we have this term, the the city to visit hate in the 1920s as a land was going through its own renaissance. that outpaced in many ways pound for pound was going on in new york city atlanta the capital for the ku klux klan. it was literally called the imperial city for the ku klux klan. the mayor of atlanta. walter simms was a klansman. there's a guy, herbert jenkins became the chief of police, herbert jacobs explicitly says

when he became when became a police officer, he says, i also became a klansman. and i count this for the majority of. my my patrolmen. right. the majority of an all white police force. so surprisingly at this very moment, the 1920s begins. there was no high school in the city of atlanta right. atlanta, in many ways, there's a city of two of contrast. right. we have all these things i just mentioned. but also you have city where most of police officers, according to themselves, were klansman right. all white police force. the mayor was a klansman, was no black high school. the black people could attend public high school. yet we have the highest concentration black educational institutes of higher education in the united states of america. so this city has always been a city of contrasts, has always been a city of tension. dr. king comes up here. a lot of people don't know this and may perhaps we'll talk about this with mayor franklin, dr. king, a singer, and he was a little. he was a singer. and we'll talk about how he sang songs. and in 1939, as a year old and and his role in atlanta and how ilana shaped him is a

conspicuous part of, this book as well. i will leave it right here because i know that i'll have a conversation with mayor franklin and she'll get a chance to ask me some questions. i hope you have questions from the audience as well thank you very much for your time. i apologize for speaking so quickly and and. thank you, my great. i will. okay. thank you. i him to take a break. relax. thanks, everybody, for coming. i know a lot of you've read the book and one of the things that i told jeffrey is that we could have an hour long discussion and presentation on any chapter of this book, it is that rich in

stories and history and, we look forward to hearing from again. but that is that's terrific. so you're good. i am. all right. so, of course, we're to start with dr. king, because you just opened the door. you've got to tell us a little bit more about dr. king's history and how it plays in the story that you tell. so all of us here were with dr. king and many people who study him around the planet know that dr. king's ideas around social justice and human and the possibilities of humanity have influences. and if you look at books that are on dr. king, you look at people discussing, him, they'll talk about benjamin mays, they'll talk about howard thurman, the valedictorian of atlanta of morehouse college in 1923. they talk henry david thoreau, mahatma gandhi. they talk about people and how christian ideas have shaped him.

we talk about all these folks who kind of poured intellectual work. atlanta i talked to dr. king also, though what i do here and i in talks is to explain that king would not have been king had it not for atlanta. and it's like imagining for hip hop fans out here. could have had a jay z had jay-z been born and bred in idaho. right. i like his identity as an emcee, a person as a human being. all those things are inextricably connected to his experience growing up in brooklyn, not just in brooklyn, but under the socio economic conditions of being a black man in brooklyn at this time. born december fourth, 1969, right in that time period, crack cocaine drugs, hip hop, all these are things like shaped jay-z in ways so we can imagine dr. separated from atlanta just like we can imagine jay-z separated from brooklyn. right so so how do we understand what atlanta did to shaped dr. king? so i talk about that as well. it's surprising is that dr. king loved atlanta in many ways. certain segments of atlanta love dr. king.

he spent most of his life here except for about 12 years. and so dr. king, you know, left montgomery came back here. but at at age ten, there was, there are two really big events. and by the beginning of atlanta and. 1972 major events brought about 100,000 people out into the streets. right. the first event was when sherman marks his victorious soldiers down marietta street, when they defeated the confederates. the second event was a world premiere of gone with the wind in 1939. the junior league had a big event to celebrate with the win. it was an all white one organization at the time and they invited they say, we want to have a big event to celebrate, going to the highlight atlanta in our heritage. and we love our history and we want to honor our history by dressing up like southern belles and, southern gentlemen. and they say, let's it they went out, got costumes, everything,

and said we can't do all this without having some happy slaves. right? and they said, yes so they went they reached out to local churches, they reached out to ebenezer baptist church. they said, can your children come here, dress up as some slaves, and sing sing songs? so our celebration and it happened. and one of those kids was dr. and so dr. king, actually, as a kid. and he looked upon the audience and saw all these people, the grinning, chatting of folks who were dressed like enslavers. and so he's saying this as a kid, right? but shapes him and even how he imagines history but the possibilities he goes, you know, i live work and i've been i'll end connecticut for 27 years now. connecticut they have tobacco farms and in the 1940s and perhaps before after i don't know much about it but 1940s they actually got black college students to pick tobacco in the summertime and president benjamin elijah mays worked with these tobacco farmers in

connecticut in simsbury, connecticut to bring students up. dr. king was one of those. he came up to summers and picked tobacco. dr. king talked about being a simsbury and going the city where i live now, hartford and, going to a movie theater and then going to a restaurants. and he talked about how he could just go to any restaurant, any movie theater. he cannot do in atlanta. and he wrote to his parents, we actually have the letters where he's saying, i'm surprised to see what black can do here. you know, you can just go to a restaurant. you just go to said imagine a world where you could live unfettered and just navigate the city freely. and so this helped shape him. and he, of course, became a global cosmopolitan person. but atlanta in many ways was a great source of love and inspiration from all the things he received here, the love and support, but also a place that calls an incredible angst and and i guess in many ways determination to move the needle. and he saw the possibilities of humanity but in greater detail i talk about how atlanta really shaped him so this the third largest gathering of humans in

atlanta was unfortunately when dr. king died. so you have the three big events you gone with the wind, you have the shamans, soldiers. and when dr. king had his funeral here in atlanta in 1968, an thing and in all three cases, we have a city that is polarized over every single right. i mean, every case, a city that celebrates itself, while other segments of the city would not at all celebrate the moment that's being celebrated you know, one of the things that we didn't talk about before this was you seem surprised by all of this. were you surprised by what you found? yeah. you know, i didn't miss this too much here. but in the asylum period, i was surprised that l.a. had constructed these incredibly hostile anti-black laws. there's the second chapter is called no capes for --. there are a lot of well-dressed people here tonight. a lot of like, you know, atlanta is known to have a lot of forward expressions. i mean, from my hair or the

banner, you got a lot of different examples of people. but in atlanta, it was for black people to dress their lot. you can not wear capes. so so you see like count dracula and these dudes with capes and stuff like that. so you can not wear a cape. black people can not wear a cape because it was seen as as sort sartorial expression that was beyond their their capacity and outside their lot. so you can have canes, you can be to fly you all these different things. i was kind of surprised that the degree to which policing of life went all the way down to even how you dressed and of course, after hearing so much about l.a. being the city too busy to hate, i was surprised to hear that we have more terrorism here than birmingham. well, the other thing, one of the things that i really relish in this book and in the arc history of atlanta is women are involved in every single aspect of the work that you and you talked about, laura combs. but would you like to speak about that a little bit more

because i explain to you that's really important to me because. so much of american history is written without women or women are appendages or they are in the womb. but not central to the story. so yeah thank you for that. that means a lot. you very much. mayor franklin. i laura combs is really important as the first black landowner and fulton county and it out that that parcel of land by the way that she sold to the combs sisters the white women who that land eventually became intersection of peachtree and auburn avenue. all right. yeah. which is crazy. and ymca eventually bought it from combs. the combs sisters did the right thing on so many levels, not just morally and ethically, morally, but they also did it in just financial way. so you have women these white women. right. who are exercising their own degree of of autonomy, influence. but what they what they did was

buy by freeing george and combs, a lot of people became, super poor enslavers became lost all their wealth after the civil war. they in fact got greater wealth as a consequence of this land trade. so that land stayed in the family for future before they sold it. so it became energy and intergenerational wealth in a way that would have been otherwise. laura combs, of course, had been this shrewd businesswoman in so many ways. another case find like really fascinating is in all she's the first lady of morehouse, the first black president, morehouse, john hope burns, hope his wife, she's active along with a lot of other african-american women in the city in kindergartens, in other educational opportunities. at one point, there were no parks available for black children in the city, and they actually worked with morehouse college to parcel land, black children, parks. but these women had been the forefront. these are privileged elite women who were inextricably tied to the work of the wider community. and that became really

important. and other issue, which is surprising for a lot of people here, is that and i'm speaking to an atlanta crowd and many of you probably already know about this, but i've given talks before and i'll preempt this one if i can. people have asked me why atlanta have a tulsa, right? or rosewood but as many of you know, here it did and it was 1906. and when 1906, the atlanta race, a massacre of 1906 occurred. the the first lady of morehouse, eugene burns. hope is on record. she's all workers saying that we were out trying to get as many guns as we could. in fact, we started they the the gun owners in atlanta leading up to the race massacre in september of 1906. gun stores stopped selling guns to african-americans. there was a sense that something was about to happen. booker t washington visited the city a month before it happened, and he in the paper, he was trying to tell people like, hey, no, -- aren't that we're pretty good people.

please, all good. and there was no there was no rebellion. there's no violence. but he had a sense that something was there and people were purchasing guns and stopped selling guns to african-americans in louisiana. burns hope she actually went out and and others got guns from people from out of town and they in dirty clothes when the when the civil unrest happened and civil society collapsed, they smuggled them in clothes and put professors at clark. they were the youth center, wasn't together at the time. clark university was called in gaman. they actually were patrolling campuses armed. there are professors probably tweed suits. dubois came from alabama and his suspects in the top hat in the probably, he said in sports according to him with his winchester double they were shotgun and with shells on the side john wesley dobbs of the grandfather to maynard jackson said the same thing. he just got married and he said he sat there with his revolver and cartridges on, the side

hoping that he wouldn't have to use them. margaret mitchell she comes up in daddy, she's white, but she saw her daddy, grabbed an ax because he didn't have a gun and this race massacre occurred. but it's fascinating to see how louisiana hope was so instrumental in securing weapons for the black community at this time, which is like not you'd expect from an elite patrician woman like virginia burns. and you've also mentioned grace townsend hamilton as well. yeah, in the course of this. and she's critical. you cannot imagine the it's interesting i this conversation earlier about air force of paternalism but the national urban league looked at at grace and hamilton and said that you are pushing hard enough for integration all aren't welcome y'all atlanta are doing this and the national jcp called the local chapter anti cp because they were not pushing hard enough and there saw h.a. scratching like well you know we were but you know how it is it's wild out here like how you guys

are doing it like other cities now are you we will use all hold type and they weren't pushing hard because there was a sense here of institution building and control of institutions and all came to a head and the second atlanta compromise. so many of us are familiar with the atlanta compromise of 1895 when booker t washington telling in piedmont park, the atlanta exposition that mostly white audience we could be separate as a fingers all things social yet united a fist in all things of mutual economic benefit. right so he's like we can be segregated. it's all good but you know we could put our know because now where we are and toe the line so by 1973 the so-called second atlanta compromise was when the city chapter decided when busing could just be for a black mayor, by the way. right. so when bussing became an issue and they in atlanta had, like i said, was the last the second to last city to engage bussing, federal judges looked at atlanta you guys had a bus and he had a number of 30,000 students and

they eventually settled on a 10th of that black leadership lonnie king of the local naacp. they say, right, you know, we do. we want push integration in the schools. but we will push integration of the administration. right. we want to be able to control public school system. and those schools that educate black children. right. their idea was that we will control the institutions and they said we want desegregation of administration. that was a position which had gone back for experience of the african-american community since the 19th century, really had been about institutional control. and that came up in. that case, by the way, the national anybody acp, they they what? they suspended the entire chapter, by the way, over that issue. over that issue. lonnie king and the entire chapter got suspended because decided to and of course, the atlanta schools has been dominated by foreigners ever since. but were like, you know, the idea was there were there were many white atlantans who were open to integration increasingly so in the 1970s there whites across the united were

increasingly open to it. but there were also there was strident resistance to it. many afro-american families felt that putting children in those spaces to be taunted and abused was not a healthy thing to do. and they thought it'd be better to have equal resources across the school district rather than, put your children and leave these, broke schools here and then see your children. these schools here, these schools will still be broken poor. as i said, if you control the system, you can control who gets resources and that's what they decide to do. so now, how does maynard jackson tie into all of this? so maynard jackson. in 1967 to go back to dr. king, dr. king was many of us know here the co-founder of, the southern christian leadership conference, and it was headquartered in atlanta. the sclc had his annual meeting. and dr. king his last address was here in atlanta months before his assassination. and in that address, the black power has shaped dr. king and black power movement,

essentially was afro self determinism with a different right and in effect, dr. king and dr. king said this. you say he was committed to racial reconciliation, was always committed a racial reconciliation. he always talked about the humanity of, all people. he was fully committed to that. but he said this, and i quote him directly, said, i believe integration. i'm fully committed to it. but it seems to be that across country, many of our white brothers and sisters don't want to live near us, move into the neighborhoods. we get. they either have white flight or we bombed. we get attacked. so this is what king said. he said, no, it sound mean, he said, but we need to get control of those cities. so he said this and. in 1967, be august. but he said, we need to get control those cities and use those resources for, the people within those cities. right. and tax people who live outside and there were hundreds, if not thousands of people were listening to those words. maybe, i don't know, maybe somebody close to maynard jackson, if not maynard jackson

himself had heard those words. maybe they didn't need to be there to hear those words. but that sentiment certainly gained traction in the united states. and so when that across the united states, when the black power movement, mayor jackson's elected in 1973, takes in 74, it's in the middle of black power movement, the celebration of building institutions before and about black people was as high point efforts of determinism have been here for a very long time. a year earlier we had the second atlanta compromise this idea of black control of institutions was very important. and lastly, when many people might know this, that when maynard jackson became mayor, he looked the coffers of atlanta, looked at what the city had it had as contracts, and found out that they had the same percentage of contracts with black firms they had during slavery. right. it was nine. it was over literally over 90% white firms in 73. right. and he was like, you see like what was in a city is half black. how is that we get less than 1% of city contracts. so we said going to be ambitious. i'm going to go all the way up to 5% and people like 5%, they

sued them right. and they were like, maynard jackson, you can't have 5%. you know, black businesses. he said, wash me. would you believe that when he left office was nearly 40%? yeah. yeah. well, lot of a lot of us here were during that and period and much of the history of black economic development is really discussed around the period of maynard jackson. but what you've given to us is an opportunity to see how it's a long arc, really that leads to the 1970s. and so i that and i'm sure a lot of other folks to do as well. one of the other issues that i think we might explore a little bit before we go, the audience is what's next because it seems to me that this book opens the

possibility of other stories. that's one. and the second thing is you and i talked about hertford, so why did it happen in atlanta and not in a city like hartford or other words? why do we? why do we see all these trends? as in atlanta, over a long period of time mean you. i mean, peachtree, auburn, that's pretty long time ago, all the way up to, maynard jackson and and so why didn't we see that in philadelphia i mean i'm originally from philadelphia center abolition is boston i mean there are lots of other places that it seems to me that was an opportunity for blacks, african-americans to kind of build the same kind of institutions and support. so do you have any idea that it's a very tough and vexing

question and many people have asked the question i think that the centerpiece many and i'm not unique in saying this that what made atlanta exceptional was a concentration of institutions of higher learning here. and we have the concentration of institution of higher learning for black people anywhere in the united states. and there's no surprise, if you look at a series of metrics, it's no surprise washington, d.c. is, a city that closest is closest tracks. atlanta in terms of these demographic characteristics. and howard university has the same sort of impact on that community. and there's an interesting story in 1920s, african-americans created the very first black amusement park in the states of america. in atlanta, it was called joyland park, and it turns out that two weeks later, washington d.c. created its own black park, which actually outlasted joyland park. but d.c. was able to do many of the same things. if you look at across the united states, right, the metros with the highest percentage of

african-americans were college are number one. washington, number two, atlanta. and so so having howard university with, its large universities, i think i'm not sure if is larger than the entire u.s. combined, but it is so large. that we've got a howard bias. we've got bison over here. we can't we can't believe the island of iowa. it was a double check dog. yeah, yeah, yeah. um, the business school, medical school, all of that. yeah. think you know it. i you know. yeah. you spend quite a bit so so that that is i think a very, very important factors why atlanta and d.c. become these places. the other thing is there's a i share the story i love the story there are two fascinating stories. i shared it with friends. there's a white comedian came to atlanta and he was like, he he had a show in atlanta. this was recently made last few weeks. and it came on my feet and he

was like, yeah, i came atlanta and i he does work. that makes commentary race. sometimes. i keep in mind as a white guy, he's just a very sort of like, like he's going to lowe's to buy some nails or something right. so he's like in a very sort of like informal dress but came to atlanta for showed he wants to go to a really nice steakhouse so he's in buckhead and he's like, i need to go to a really steakhouse. so he found a steak house. he's like, oh, man, got to go to the steakhouse. i'm gonna have a nice time. went up to the steak house. he walked inside and looked around. he said it was like an opulent steak house, black, everything, black maitre d, black people's down, black waiters. and he was like okay, cool. so he got there. the maitre d came up to him, said, hey, doordash. and he's like, doordash. i like doordash. i'm no offense, the doordash people, but i think i'm nora. he's a oh, no. and said, now i know like we've been talking about on, you know, i felt some of away right but he

said he sat he said that the people they took with them, he sold them as a norm actually to eat a steak. and so he had a great time. and he said, i worked this my show. and there's another story came out in 2023. many people might jon hamm, who's an actor who's famous actor, white guy, he was on mad men. he was a titular character on mad men. jon hamm in atlanta. and thanks to mayor many years ago as head the bureau of cultural affairs right. there's there's a tv film industry, georgia center in atlanta. and jon was here filming and he said that being in new york, in l.a., two extraordinarily diverse cities. so i could go to a fancy restaurant any given time. and those restaurants do not look like those cities. they don't look like the people inhabit new york or los angeles, he said. i cannot go to. he when i go to atlanta and i go to a restaurant, i see black people everywhere. and this is how should be. and he said he felt so he said he felt in big rating he felt he

felt that it was an experience that more people need to they said that he didn't understand there was a sort of absence i could go in. i could give other examples. but there's something unique about this idea you told me about where maynard jackson has personal migration. he chose not to have it just in the black community. he wanted people to know that this is their city, that you're this. you're everywhere, right? that everywhere is open to you. right? so i think there's a there's something about the energy in and people seeing the city as their city and not constricted to parts of it, not just south central harlem or the south side, but atlanta. but i can't explain how is not replicated other the fact that we have these institutions of higher learning and a long tradition of those of the talented alumni staying in the community you said philly, i'll do this and 45 seconds tiger flowers. i'll talk about the fighter. yes. there's one of the first we all know of joe louis. many know about jack johnson, these heavyweight fighters, or they were heavyweight champion, but there was a middleweight champ believe was a middleweight champion fighter named tiger

flowers, who was actually from philadelphia in the 1920s. he became champion of the world. right. and this guy was wealthy and he could go anywhere in the united states of america, but he to build a house, atlanta and build a mansion in atlanta and he used a black construction company to his black mansion in the black community in atlanta in the 1920s. he didn't go to harlem. then you go to chicago, he didn't even go back to philly. and the thing is that surprisingly was also the capital of klan, which is a bizarre thing, right? like, how do you reconcile these things happening at same time in the 1920s? but this is the atlanta we know and love, a complicated city. so we've got time for a few questions. we're going to be bringing a mic around. and since we're if you could wait until the mic gets there, that would be great. but i know that i know this crowd's got a lot questions, so raise your and they're going to bring a mic. thank you. justin.

i'm all right. thank you so much. i'm sort of fascinated by the branding of atlanta over time. so when they were talking about this the other day from the city to visit hey the atlanta way black mecca atlanta influences everything these are different things that sort of have their own unique piece. but to some extent, they kind of all communicate something about the idea of safety and wellness of black in atlanta. so the question is, how true is do these does this branding maybe this aspirational branding end up creating more wellness for black folks over or does it end up? i mean, i think, you know, to what extent does it also end up sort of exposing black folks in atlanta to i know, outside influences and.

vulnerabilities? i was looking for a microphone. so i think that atlanta i say this in the book and this is a clear really kind of interesting issue that atlanta has created these slogans and i like that you use the word aspirational they've been more aspirational, their reality. so if you look atlanta, look at atlanta in the first century, and i at atlanta the last five years, multiple studies of five years have showed that atlanta has, of all the cities in the nineties, america the the least social mobility which is fascinating because all the stuff we talk about right has the the so a child born in poverty in a census tract that is poor census tract has a 4% chance of escaping poverty sitting to the middle class in her lifetime which is -- right. the the the stat gets more complicated if you look at metropolitan areas so there's no

way to get around that horrible stat for the city of atlanta it turns out that of metro areas of all the major metro areas united states atlanta has the smallest core population piece of the metropolitan area. so about a half a million people live in the city, while 6 million people live outside new york. doesn't look like that. chicago doesn't look that like that, and los angeles doesn't that. so you have a core that's very small. when we talk about the 2 million black people who have migrated to atlanta over the last generation, two generations, most those people actually have gone to the suburbs. so all of us know black folks, who claim to live in atlanta, believe out of the thorniest mt. marietta, all these are the places right they don't pay any taxes. right. so so people who live in atlanta is increasingly an abstraction. so now people have done studies to look at what the metro looks like, that 6 million folks, it turns out that that that that ability that social mobility factor. and keep in mind that the core city and the so both not just the metro alone it looks at the

core city and the metro it drops from number one the worst mobility to 227th. it plummet right. so it outperforms 226 cities, which is really a metro area, which is remarkable. so so there is there's a positive element to it as, much as the -- part of it to you cannot go out and i've heard people say i'm all about numbers. i tried, you know, i said this earlier. i heard people say can't live in land that was too expensive. you can't buy a house. no, man, i've gone to the auction. go to the southwest atlanta, ga. about by, you know, white over there. you can see houses are barely standing up right. you see, you know, broke down houses. you still see impoverished areas. it's not like atlanta is all these brand new condos. there are still swaths of atlanta that are in hard, abject right. so these things are real. so lana has not escaped that. so just like the city too busy to hate the idea of the black mecca, the sort of what county and city. this is clearly an aspirational

space in many respects. but then we have a in there that data. this is just atlanta is exceptional and we have a whole of several for good and bad reasons. thank you. where is the microphone? i don't care. dr. ackbar. mayor franklin. good evening. i appreciate your discussion about atlanta in the forties and fifties, especially with the the two real estate boards. there was a called the colombians that was in atlanta. and my question to you, dr. barr, is did that really stifle the growth did it have any impact on the city in terms of people moving in because of the the the the fresh, the clean scrubbed terrorist that were here? i appreciate your thoughts about that. thank you. really informed here.

i did not know much about the colombians before doing research for book. this is a fascist organization emerged after world war two in atlanta. and so they thought the klan was not hardcore enough. they're like these dudes. these we plan, so let's show them. i was really done. and they they literally we want to establish white nationalist state and what the nazis did to -- they were very clear about it they say we want to it once we get to power, if we want bury all the n-words in the sand, we can bury all the n-words in the sand. that's what they so they their issue is that they were so hardcore they decided to blow up establishments. they want to attack the white police. they beat up and attack black people in blow up houses. so but they also identified the land of constitutional and a journal and said we can blow these places up, then blow up these police officers, that the city was like. now we don't have any of that. so they came in, broke their backs and put them out jail and took away their charter.

so they got repressed pretty quickly. once they start to attack white establishment in the city. and they were like the klan had come out of favor in the 1940s as well. the united is coming in after the world war two. and you know, the hard core virulent expressions, racial oppression had sort of less than a bit. and so just was not the right time. historical moment the colombians to really step on the scene so i don't think it affected in fact in that period you have an influx of white and black blacks are still coming to the city and it becomes such issue as many of us know here. i know mayor franklin as your predecessor, hartsfield, is like, we need to annex more white communities because black folks are so are you all down to come into our teams we need to dilute the black power here because before know it, they'll have a black mayor, god forbid. and so so so this is happening in 1942. so many black people come into the city don't about my fellow morehouse man what have you found in terms of the the certain infrastructure of black

societies influence i.e.. sleeping porters kappa phi phi prince hall masonry and the other organizing asians here in atlanta that know the lineage. you know, i'm part of that capital formation group of going from the burial societies to the insurance companies to the numbers man, you know, to the commercial bankers, to those of us in asset management business, which made it, you know, i my relationship with them was through the national associations professionals which was near and dear to his heart and the impact he made on kind of capital formation and business development in the black community going to wall street and of reconfiguring things there. hmm, great question. the so networking as many people as room networking is critical

to how just corporate business but even this event tonight is as i start off as a consequence of networking like my relationship to elise and her relationship to her cousin and then, you know, broadly strong relationships with mayor and other are these are the people they know pulled this all together. so relationships have been critical to much what we see in l.a. history in the 1920s. again, the irony i learned a whole lot about the atlanta 1920s, that's we get to the founding national black letter organizations in atlanta. they started establishing their chapters of the 1920s, which is crazy because you have the klan here. i this other talk, which is hilarious. i talk about klan have their own free neck in the 1920s and like because they had it like these parties. and i was like, yeah, they said we, they had these classrooms where these convocations i think they call them. so of klansmen came to atlanta every year because it was the capital the klan. so the hotels were filled with klansmen, klansmen walking down the street, having a free right.

and they were like, this is a fear. they were going a field day. and the city was so abuzz with the klan in the 1920s, coca-cola ads out in the klan's newspaper. they were like, when you go to your klan rallies, have a coke, you know, saying, don't forget you know? and so so the klan was huge in atlanta, 1920s surprisingly, alpha phi omega sci fi these and sororities founded there i'm sorry, two people in a room we know these numbers know years but in the 1920s sigma phi phi, the boulay the capital start of the 1920s. and so so in this decade surprisingly, these organization runs take root in the city. they have conferences here in the 1920s, which is like surprising like why would you go to a place that is controlled, the oldest terrorist organization in the country, like you can imagine, but they did this, which is fascinating know so they these became really important incubators for activism. so the building, for example,

the capital when it was formed here, dubois who was once a professor, was already he established caballé in new york city for the signify five fraternities often called the ballet. they when they when they were here, most of these people were tied to the naacp, right? they were professionals with advanced degrees, but they were also tied to activism and an activism that was more it was afro. so it wasn't pushing hard for integration because they valued the power of institutions and those networks were really critical so many ways. yeah, the questions yeah. edwin moses i'm over here in the morehouse quarter, but all right, i just thank you. i heard you talk about joseph. i come from dayton, ohio, and a lot of people don't know that in dayton, ohio, we an area called little africa or town. and it was populated by former slaves who came to work on the canal it came from new york,

buffalo, erie, pennsylvania, albany. they went all the way out to missouri chicago. so there was a whole area populated like that. and my brother did a lot of research on that. but when you talk about gentrification specifically in the early sixties, late fifties and i'm working on a book right now and i have a film coming out too and i mention this specifically in my book because it might not make the film about the reverse gentrification, we could call it that. now that happened in west ohio where where african-americans were moving and the whites were moving out. and i talk about a time because i grew up in this time my mom and dad were educators. i live on a hill in west dayton area called montclair judges, doctors, lawyers high level educators. there was a guy that had like 50 patents that design metals for jet planes that they're still using, but our gentrification was what, remember, was going through west state.

and when the whites moving out and the black started moving in, the lawns were cut. we flowers on the steps, people walking dogs had cut, everyone had a mother and, a father, and all the kids were going to school and serious about educations. when i talk about that today, to some of the young morehouse brothers and spelman sisters and younger people that that grew up with the single mother that don't have a father, that whole concept is really like something that's really been lost that period between like the mid-sixties, vietnam, civil rights. i grew up say it loud, i'm black and i'm proud. and tommie smith and knowing where i was when it when both kennedy got shot, malcolm x got shot. dr. king's funeral where i was. but that whole between that early sixties up until the crack age is is like a segment of the united states of our black history that no one is talking about today. we skip from 6870 to dr. king, and then you start again with

the hope you get the disco era and then you start with the crack and the decimal nation of african-american studies. so i just want to say thank you for bringing that. now. have a conversation you about my experiences because it's happening not in atlanta, but in a lot of other cities. and today that history being wiped out. you're on to ban this. sure. your book is. we'll see if things go the wrong way. everybody who came to a meeting this tonight will be, you know, on someone's boundless. but thank you very much. thank you very much, sir. you we're here in honor. anyone over here? yes. i have. two parents, one. where is the steakhouse? in buckhead. oh. ha ha ha ha ha ha. and whether you being from pennsylvania? i'm from pennsylvania. and we had to take pennsylvania history, so i don't know if they do that in georgia, but if they do, is this part of the history.

no. and how do we make it pointed in the. well, we we will organize. it's on the list of things we need to. do i wish i knew that steak house. i i'm a pessimist here, but i'm sure i got some good though yeah. so yeah i. all right, let me know. let me know. thank you for that. oh, good evening. my name is bud smith. mayor and dr. i'd like to ask you both a question. how long do you feel it's going to take before see another black female mayor in atlanta in atlanta? oh, i think the door is wide. i mean, i. i mean, were you asking me? i would just i would just say i considered my job every single day to be sure door was still open when i left. that was my job.

we just go, yeah, i'm nothing. i have nothing to add. mayor franklin, as i said at the beginning of the talk and, the history of all the mayors before, i'm just staying in that you receive more votes cast in over 90% of the votes. and ed a record. i mean, so you had extraordinary achievement, but you it's one of my dear friends, maybe bill thomas, who many of you know, a former state representative, and also city council member. she said, i made the job look too hard. but i mean, you're also a finalist. the world mayors list. i mean, all these different things are going on now, not about it was not about me coming out now. time out, run for governor. any questions over here? i think it's a hand. right. this gentleman microphone. where's the. i don't see the microphone. so the light is in our face. oh, okay yes. thank you. tilman ward.

i'd like to thank mayor franklin, your doctor, on the perspectives of, our growth and what have you. four of the five people that were quite influential in getting atlanta where it is now lived, my community bound city, including one of my mentors, grace hamilton. how do we weave this. mayor jackson's grandfather said it's book is ballot, and the book would be the trajectory of your piece and. this is 2024, john wisdom said that the next street, a next to street north of that was far east avenue after nathan deforest 2024, the imperial hotel is at that corner. but the street name now is ralph mcgill. i remember ralph mcgill coming

to, morris brown and others who made a difference, incidentally, that king's mom went to march brown of the many cities you have visited, can you think one or two other cities atlanta can a page out of their playbook to be that stellar city that it is and franklin helped make it that that's for you? yeah. yeah i mean you know when i think about cities where atlanta can learn yeah where atlanta learn you know i made reference earlier to so washington d.c. i you know one of the things that i say is somewhat -- about atlanta, again, is the lack of social mobility and. i think that while the metropolitan area may be quite successful you can't ignore the half million people, of course, in the core and clearly looking at policies that could disrupt things, you know, sort of solidified you, know, infringed

racial case case with intergenerational poverty, we need to disrupt that and to, quote a colleague of mine and friend here damon, he said that education is the disruptor to intergenerational poverty, but the systematic in which we have fought, we make that available to people like how we go about doing that is something that clearly needs to be done. and i don't know which city one might be the best example of, but i think there are some there are a lot of spaces where we could do better, obviously. right. and i think that clearly identifying that problem is one of the i know that environmental issues have a big you. well, another i mean, there are many more people who are registered to vote than who vote. so the policy is follow the outcome of votes. and there have been periods in, their elections where literally hundreds of thousands of african americans in georgia have not voted who are registered and and on the voting rolls. so.

mobilizing people to be mobilizing people to be engaged in the political process is part of it. i think. but i don't want to dominate this i'll be here for a while yes next. all right. good evening, people. and make a real quick chapter five. thank you very much for your work. chapter. you talked about how when the characters, the slaves being freed, the lady said to them, hey, young actress keisha occasionally struck him. i'm born and raised in southwest atlanta. why is it that atlanta has been such a magnet for higher learning and you see any threats to that continue to flourish? you know, there's a there's a character that i in over half the book named william edward evans and. i introduce him and i'm glad brought that up about education and of 1864 as sherman was cutting through georgia on his way to savannah, he came through madison and this little nine

year old kid who had just come back from going to a slave sort like training camp. he ran up to the fence at this plantation to marvel at the thousands of soldiers in blue marching through madison. and as he's looking at all soldiers, thousands of soldiers marching blue, carrying hams and carrying clothes and carrying munitions and he peered into the crowd. he saw not just white guys in blue, but he saw black children, black men and black women. and one black woman looked over at this fence with all these little enslaved children. and she declared that they were free. she said the first day she told them and he wrote this he said this in wpa in 1930, said, learn your abcs. and she said, run and learn your abcs, which itself have been subversive. right? like it was against the law to teach anybody who was black, free or enslaved to read or write. so it turns that that young man

went to augusta and augusta had no there were no colleges or anything there. he found himself in atlanta and he settled here and found himself caught in the orbit of the institutions of higher learning. this is very, very important to how we think. in many ways, his life is a microcosm, why so many of us in this room. but people we animate the city of atlanta end up being here. he he was attracted to the schools, but not a student. he end up becoming a contractor. he was a plasterer and eventually he worked in the construction of, a stone hall. stone for people who were from morris brown. you know, that was the original building where w.e.b. dubois had his offices and where he wrote souls of black folk and w.e.b. dubois was there in the building was partially made by the guy who shared the first two names with him, and he joined fresh a baptist church. he joined first baptist church when morehouse moved up to atlanta as well. and they had to find a home and spelman college was founded his

same church. right. so he saw spelman college. morehouse and then they moved a little bit away. but he was active in their church his whole life. he became active and he built his construction company he and up working for alexander and and and alexander sons got so much of their work from the black schools to go back to the schools, they weren't even enrolled in schools. right. they were getting work building dormitories, including he built robert hall and morehouse college, which actually became the dorm where king lived one year. right. and he then worked with the ymca downtown, which is a veritable city hall. and then eventually when he was interviewed in 1930s, he talked how his home that he built was a little larger than a home that senator joshua hill owned and enslaved him in madison, georgia. and so this little boy, nine years old, had the arc of his life. and when he died in 1944, the atlanta constitution, l.a. constitution at the time they did an obituary for. evans and it turns out that reverend carter, the head of

baptist church, did the did the services. carter died a few months later. they were the same age, 88 years old. this that he had known for over half a century. they die within months of each other. and the persons to replace carter was maynard jackson senior. you know, so that guy, his his life really was connected to all these churches. but carter evans, so many people on course, including maynard jackson, senior and junior, they were drawn to these these colleges, the threats to the colleges, i don't know. i mean, i really, look at these schools. they seem to be in many ways without challenges. obviously. but we all know the great news, spelman, $100 million coming to spelman college. a lot of people know this. this is i did this. and research has found itself spelman. if you look at per capita student endowment, spelman before. $100 million is not just one of the wealthiest schools. the united states is wealthier than over 90% of the schools and colleges in the united states were wealthier than georgetown university of southern california and tulane which i found wildly surprising, had no

idea because they're only 2000. a little over 2000 students at spelman their per capita endowment is again higher than. well over 90% of schools and colleges, the united states of america. and that was a school that started off in auspiciously in our specialist little church friendship church back in the day with evans. so i'd like to think that these schools are strong, know spelman is outlier in some respects, but but yeah, i'd like to think this is wrong. so we've got time for one or two more questions. who's next? question thank you so much. i thank you for the opportunity speak. my question is actually senator, what that gentleman was saying earlier, when it comes to the family unit changing and mentioned about that dichotomy of it, and that is all over and just thinking about the state of black georgia and tale of two tale of two states, what guidance would you offer for a

shift to be able to help the kids because even though there is that well, you still low literacy rates you still have that poverty you still have all of the unemployment so there's that dichotomy. so what guidance would you suggest? thank you. i'm quoting someone who works for rice. i'm trying to the the russell is two for innovation and event. thank you. thank you and so one of these you said he talks about challenges in atlanta and how atlanta we think about this the social mobility we think poverty. you think about lack of education you say that all these things are true. he said that and i love what he said he said that while atlanta has all this and we've gotten so many things wrong, we're best positioned of the deep reservoir of talent to also get it right. right. and when you think about this, there's probably other city, any metro area with this degree of

talent right to get it right and pooling and, harnessing that resource, those resources, like all the organizations that we have in the metro area, you mentioned the the social organization all these are a lot of professionals who have a lot of experience in different industries. again, this is beyond my pay re like how you assessments systematically address some of these things but i do know that like the license to other that that are dedicated to these these issues and clearly the city the government the county government i can't speak for the state and the extent to which they might be engaged in these things, but these are real issues. so there are examples in atlanta of neighborhood kind of focused, developed ment and and multi disciplinary approaches. some of my former colleagues from purpose built community here is like other folks in on the west side. so there are some examples where the approach to these is not citywide but is neighborhood

focused. so we'll be glad to tell you about that later. thank you, ma'am. all right. we're going to take our last question here. thank you. two things. one, being a photographer and, traveling around a lot, mostly i hear about in terms of atlanta with maynard jackson making equity and money for the arts, maynard that. and jill, of the whole bunch of us came here during the mid-seventies. all right. and two people always talk the hole in the ground, which is airport and. when maynard maintained that hole in the ground, that's where 40% came from. yeah, no, that's true. i mean, maynard focus was the airport, but he set the standard. all the rest that we would do after words. so this has been great. has everybody learned something new? i know i have. we are so. i know rodney. is going to close this out, but

i want to be sure to remind everyone that the books are for sale. we look forward to reading them because we certainly want to have jeffrey back and talk about some of the other things that he's learned and then and and it's c-span. thank you to c-span. this has been recorded and the history center. a big thank you for making this possible. i know i'm doing your job. but you know, when you're in politics, you have a microphone. we're going to tell you, but we can't thank you enough. thank you. not just for coming. thank you, but for all the research and all the work and the dedication to city that we love. thank. thank you so much. thank you all so thank you for coming out. thank you. thank thank you.