budget request for the agency. then international scholars discuss global challenges and opportunities for diplomacy at a recent conference held at georgetown university. later a hearing to examine intellectual property concerns digital replicas that are made to imitate a voice or other likeness through artificial intelligence. that and more coming up tonight on cspan2. ♪ c-span is your unfiltered view of government funded by these television companies and more including cox. ♪ is extremely rare. but friends don't have to be. when you are connected, you are not alone. ♪ cox support c-span as a public service. along with these other television providers. giving a front row seat to

democracy. correct nasa administrator bill nelson testified on president biden 2025 budget request for the agency before the house science, space, and technology committee. he was asked to comment on a number of topics including u.s./russia space relations for de- orbiting of international space station, competition with china and public/private partnerships. this is two hours and 15 minutes. >> the committee will come to order. that objection shares authorized to declare recess of the committee at any time. welcome to today's hearing entitled an overview of the tebudget proposal for the natiol aeronautics and space administration for fiscal year 2025. i recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement. today we hear testimony from administrator nelson about the president's25 budget proposal fr nasa for fiscal year 2025.

this committee plays an important role in nasa's mission by providing policy direction authorizing activities for the agency. while we make progress with language included in the 2022 chips in science act, it is been more than seven years in the last comprehensive nasa reauthorization bill was signed into law. i am certain everyone in this room including the administrator can agree seven years is far too long. as many of our experts have highlighted in committee hearings this year, a lot has changed for nasa since 2017. you must approach an authorization bill with these changes in mind and address a few major topics. the first topic is artemis. i speak for members on both sides of the aisle when i express the strongest support for america's return to the lunares surface. tough questions about the execution of the program. second topic is nasa's role in low earth orbit international space station is retired.

we heardbu several prospects on this topic in february look forward to continuing this dialogue as we move forward. a third topic is nasa's management of science missions within the agency's portfolio. we support nasa during to do big things particularly in science how can congress ensure particulate flagship missions remain on schedule and within budget? a sweet deliberate on these topics we consider this important reauthorization legislation we must also keep in mind recent budgetary issues. nasa does not lack plans for future exploration efforts. by this returning astronauts to the moon or developing new aviation technology. however these ambitions come at a cost at may of 2023 president biden sign fiscal responsibility act capping federal discretionary spending fy 24 and fy 25. one of our challenges would be to draft a reauthorization bill that complies with that law or

providing sufficient support for execute these all inspiring missions. failing to do so will force nasa to do take on more work than they have the funding to accomplish which will not only set nasa up for failure by asking them to do too much with too little. by providing proper oversight and authorizing language. this committee adequate funding for the agency's activities. important u.s. competitivenessis and research and technology development globally. and today is no different. u.s. remains the global leader in space exploration we face increasing challenges internationally. just last week china reiterated its commitment to planning to astronauts upon the lunar surface by 2030. later this week china intends to launch a mission to retrieve samples from the far side of the moon if they are successful

china will be the first country to dosu so. we cannot allow china to become the front runner in space exploration. there are too many consequences for competitiveness, or national security, our continued ability to explore space. with clear direction from congress nasa willsp ensure the u.s. remains global leader inth space continues to inspire millions of people around the world. i want to welcome administrator nelson back to the committee he served for many years. i look forward to working with you as we move forward with our nasa authorization bill. i now recognize the ranking member at the gentlewoman from california for ane opening statement. >> thank you,fo mr. chairman. i joined chairman lucas and joining administrator nelson back to the committee to discuss the president's budget proposal for nasa. we appreciate your leadership at nasa and that you are here again today. what can be times of geopolitical economic and

environmental strife nasa continues to be a bright spot. a northstar that sparks wonder and curiosity about our planet, our solar system and the universe. nasa's mission to advance space and earth science, human exploration, aeronautics, space technology and stem education continues to bring us together and that is something we need. here in congress is brought bipartisangy support for the mission beyond the united states nasa continues to lead us in activities that serve the peaceful exploration and utilization of outerspace. the value of these intangible benefits cannot be underestimated. nor can we forget the direct value nasa r and d has had on societal challenges such as climate change, space, whether even on tracking, characterizing potentially hazardous near earth asteroids today's discussion provides an important opportunity to examine nasa's ns

progress towards meeting our policy goals for the united statess. civil space program to identify opportunities for improvement and understand what nasa means and budget tort workforce and infrastructure resources to accomplish its inspiring mission. the president fiscal yearr request is 25.384 billion about a 3% increase in the enacted fiscal year 2023 appropriations. i believe this request allows us keep the artemis to demonstration on track advancing moon to mars activities and investing in sustainable aviation among other activities. however, last year's agreement does impose caps on discretionary spending and that presents challenges to all our federal research and develop an agency's. nasa is no exception.s on the 2020 request high-priority science recommended national academy acy surveys cannot be initiated.

the timeline for a mars sample return is to be determined. previously selected science missions are being pushed to the right or even cancel other productive signs observatories such as the chandra x-ray observatory proposed to be phased out. humaned exploration nasa's plans call for transitioning from use of the international space station to commercial lower platforms at the end of the decade were at the same time nasa plans to begin an annual cadence with artemis missions to the moon. in short a wave is building for there is no sugar coating the current budget proposal. i recognize the tough decisions need to be made. it is essential this committee understand the decisions and proposals over others as we evaluate trade-offs and it is imperative nash nasa has clear plans for action on the other side of thede budget horizon.

lot is at stake. i'm especially concerned is a charm and mentioned about reductions in orc force including those in my home state ofac california resulting from prolonged mission timelines. losing skilled talent as a further setback that cannot be erased. we need to work holistically at the implications of the 2025 proposal on the health of nasati now and in the future. how will we positioned nasa to meet the future? will we stay on the tail is other nations that do not share our values advance as a charm and has expressed? as ranking member i will continue to ensure we positioned nasa for success. and that the united states continue to lead in the exploration of outerspace. i want to thank you administrator for your extraordinary leadership of nasa. we welcome you back and thank you for your service. i yieldnt back. >> thank you ranking member but let me introduce our witness for today's hearing mr. bill nelson has served 14th in administering the national

aeronautics and space administration. administrator nelson's career includes over four decades in public service. he represented florida in both chambers during his 30 years in congress. and i committee's space science and application subcommittee. that's a real resume item mr. director. >> mr. chairman, with your permission to submit might my writtenstatement in the reco. and if i may just give you a couple of thoughts and then let's get to your question. >> without opposition absolutely. nasa is a storied organization. inin this agency does amazing things. a lot of the things we do is right on the edge. and next monday night about

10:30 p.m. we are going to launch another vehicle. it is human rated this is the first time america has ever had three human rated spacecraft. on the one that will go to the moon which is o ryan on top of the big rocket sls. the dragon which flies on the falcon nine and is part of the commercial crew and cargo services to and from the international space station. and now the third one, boeing star liner. this is the first test flight. we have two test pilots. butch wilmore and sunny williams that are applying this test flight.

and if successful then we will have three. that's the first time this has ever happened. it is all a part of us continuing to, and the human space program, explore the heavens. we are learning so much on the international space station. it is an international space station. fifteen nations participate. there is science that is just coming of age. some of the pharmaceutical research is just going to knock our socks off. we are also going back to the moon after a half a century. we are going back, not just to go to the moon but for the reason of learning enough so we can send humans to mars and the decade of the 2040s.

nasa's science program, you read about all of the time. the james webb space telescope, look at what it is discovering out in the universe. and i could go on and on for the aviation program we are going to fly the needle nose jet this year. proving a different design that we can fly passengers supersonic across popular areas and not have the big bang bang of the sonic boom. it would be more of a muffled roar. and so it goes on it on. i will stop right there well before the five minutes mr. chairman and be delighted to try to answer your questions. >> thank you director nelson of your testimony of the chair recognizes himself for five minutes.

administrator nelson it was racially reported nasa is considering changing the mission profile for artemis three. thee mission schedule for september of 2026 which is currently intended to land humans on the lunar surface. the potential change in profile would result in a mission where astronauts do not land on the lunar surface but rather remain in low earth orbit. his nasa actively considering an alternative mission profile for artemis three? what is going on mr. administrator? >> mr. chairman, this is part of our commercial program at spacex has signed up to land in september of 26. next year, september of 25 we are going to launch a crew of four. three americans and a canadian. and they will test out the

spacecraft. and it will circle the moon and come home. i year after that comment spacex has signed up to provide a lander were we would go into a new kind of orbit. a polar orbit, and irregular or elliptical orbit. the crew will transfer into the lander. now that is what is in the contract. the article that you are referring to is speculation. what happens if they are not ready? well, naturally people think about these things. but the plan is to land. it would be to astronauts of the crew of four that would get into

the lander and go down and land. and i might say, think about the toapollo program. and the artemis program. artemis three, the first lander spacex is contracted for, is the equivalent of apollo nine, apollo 10, and apollo 11. so it is a very accelerated program. >> very much so mr. administrator for the 2023 strategy for planetary science suggested a total cost 5.3 billion for the mars sample return. significant increases to the estimate have several project reviews including ongoing efforts to reassess the program. as nasa reconsiders the approach

for the mars sample return is nasa still targeting a total project cost $3.5 billion? >> 3.5 is unrealistic. but i pulled the cord on it mr. chairman about two weeks ago because the independent review boards had said the cost was going up to $11 billion. it was very possible we were not even going to get the sample back until 2040. and that simply unacceptable. and so what i did was i said i want to go out to all nasa centers which includes the jet propulsion laboratory. i want to go out to industry which we now have done with a request for information to come

up with new ideas. by the way i checked in yesterday with the head of the jet propulsion laboratory on how theirch ideas are and they are quite excited about coming up with new ideas. that can bring the cost down and get the sample back earlier progress with enthusiasm to those. domestic supplemental request to congress requesting funding for usd orbit vehicle to safely decommission the iss as well as funding to help rebuild the nasa facility in guam and the armstrong flight research center. congress is not past eight supplemental package yet to date. as the funding for the guam hurricane package included an fy 25 budget request? >> and no, sir.

it's just like the department of defense. that request for the guam dishes is to request an emergency supplemental. that is a result of a typhoon. our request is 400 million of which we have been cutting and pasting and chewing gum with bailing wire as an interim solution. our request pales in comparison to the dod.an dod is something like 2 billion request ours is 400 million. but also in that request is the request for the funding for the d orbit vehicle. why is it an emergency? and it should not be in the regular request for appropriations.

because we do not know what vladimir putin is going to do. we built the international space station with the russians for be operated with the russians. we have had no hiccup whatsoever with the russian cosmonauts. nor moscow. mission control and houston mission control of which we have both the russians and americans in both. we do an integrated crew on the soil use up a desert american astronaut on the dragon. there is a russian cosmonauts. but we don't know what the president of russia is going to do but we could be in an emergency situation that we have to get this structure that is as big as a football stadium down and down safely in 2031. that is why i am making the

request i am pleading to you all in the appropriations committee to put that in the emergency supplemental bill that will be coming up later provokes how much money are we talking about mr. administrator for the d orbit vehicle? >> fiscal year 24180000000 for the total cost over six years is going to be a billion and a half. >> my time is exported turns the ranking member for her questions for five minutes. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and mr. administrator. you have to make some tough decisions given the budget and i do not envy you for that. it was interesting to hear about the mars sample return decision and i understand it better now that you've given us your testimony.t are we really starting over with a clean slate on this? or -- what is the need for

additional technical analysis? where are we on this? >> we are not starting over. as a matter fact i am just saying we can't do it at $11 million per. >> for. >> and not disagree with that prick is a sample and not even a return until 2040. so, let me give you an example of what the director of the jet propulsion laboratory said. they are looking at instead of this huge mars lander that would then have an asset vehicle which was the original concept and one thing of many that was running the cost away up. use existinghi legacy proven techniques and hardware such as the sky crane that landed to landers, rovers, the size of a

truck. we've got perseverance up there now running around, digging these samples about the size of a cigarrs sealed in titanium tubes. we went to get most of those back. so, come up with new concepts. nibring new ideas in this particular case it was using a particular legacy. we want all of those ideas to come forth. and then sometime this fall in there and on their deadline we will evaluate them. and at that point to make a decision going forward. and hopefully is going to be much more and what is in line with what the independent review boardsi said. we have had about three of those. that was the cost should not exceed somewhere in the six billion dollar range.

>> let me go to another topic. reauthorization act of 2022 is part of chips in science, we extended the enhanced use leasing authority for 10 years. for those not familiar with that thatte allows nasa to lease undr utilized not access thehe propey owned by the federal government. in under nasa's jurisdiction to private entities at state and locald governments, academic institutions,ty and other federl agencies. i know inun terms this has been very successful. you have uc barkley about to open. wepr had carnegie melon there. we have had various other entities but the usgs has come in. there is a synergy that has been created. how would this work around the united stateses not just at ame? >> and google is another major. >> yes they are maintaining the field progress yes,a ma'am.

well it was not too long ago i was sitting up here in capitol hill begging to get enhanced use authority instead of doing that thepiecemeal when you're at a t. to get it for a number of years in the future in order to do just exactly what you have just outlined at ames. and so another one would be for example we have got this huge area because when you test rocket engines you want to have a buffer so people are not disturbed by the sound of the rocket test. so what we have done is we brought in other agencies of the federal government and it becomes a mixed use space the

facility. same thing at kennedy space center.ec the congressman posey can tell you that places come alive. those old rocket pads had weeds growing on them have come back to life. there's a lot of commercial activity there with regard to nasa kennedy space center mixed-use with enhanced lease use. >> if i may make one more comment. the jet propulsion laboratory in california had to lay off more than 500 skilled talented employees as part of the pullback on msr i'm not disputing your decision. it's tragic to lose that talent is to have a plan to recapture that kind of talent that the

tragic situation. toughnt way to capture that question quickly try to set the table for you as to why this occurred. had we had our 24 requests and 25 requests that would not have happened. however, congress in its wisdom and i can tell you if i had been your seat i would have voted for the bill. in the government full faith and credit of the federal government to be impugned. and the sacrifices, the trade-offs or the compromise if you will in order to get the

votes to pass that in both houses. was to cut the spending in 24 and 25 was cut to and have billion dollars almost in each of the years 24 and 25. nasa science just in 24 was cut $1 billion. so if i've got a smaller potato sack that only holds 5 pounds of potatoes and i've got 10 pounds that i want to get it is hard for me too get those 10 pounds and that 5-pound sack. >> i have gone over and i appreciate your comments which look in the mirror mr. posey fr

five minutes per. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and it's good to see you back again. regarding the deferred maintenance we have on the aging structures how do we make sure we prioritize infrastructure needs going down the road question mckay knows the same problem slightly just talked about. >> yes, sir. you cannot build infrastructure without some money. and so where do we cut in the budget? i just give you one example that we are trying to still succeed with the mars sample return. at a cost of one half of what it was projected to be. if the structure is one of the biggest problems we have for its aging infrastructure. it is right there in your district but it is in every center and nasa facility in the

country. what i am hoping is when you all get through with the cycle of 24 and 25 that come 26 with all of the fiscal other things that you have to consider there might be more appropriations for nasa to address its facilities needs. >> thank you. per can you speakto the importas commercial partners in supporting a space station? what say that again congressman for quick sinew speak to the importance of nasa's commercial partners supporting the space station? >> absolutely and theyat are. look at all of the science with commercial partners we have going on. not only pharmaceuticals the planetary science that we have going on.

commercial partners as we go back to the moon we do not go back just as the u.s. government. we go back with commercial partners. the example is most spacex and blue origin are developing a landers. onceu. we have both we will maka choice between the two. so commercial parts of nasa happened to go back totw the 200 nasa bill of which left something to do with. >> could you explain how china uses space as a foreign-policy tool? >> how china does or all of us do? >> let me say that when we fly a foreign astronaut that is certainly a part of a foreign-policy policy tool.

on the space telescope at fault foreign-policy as well. likewise china does tries but it isnot nearly as successful as we are because they are much more secretive in their space program. >> how do we counter their announcement they're going to and bites international space station's that we've done that many cases been there done that. >> we are not going to counter it. to what extent. they say they want to put international into an experimental place my concern is

they don't get their first and say this is our area stay out. south pole, of the moon is an important part we think because we think that there's water there is rocket fuel that is one reason were going to the south -- the south pole of the moon. >> are not going there to collect rocks are going there to colonize and everything they do has a military component to it. you know that, i know that. i seem about to run out of time and are you back thank you for quick and once i'm six for the chair not recognize the gentleman from oregon for five minutes for. >> think it mr. chairman and ranking member. thank you for being here administrator nelson part nice to see a welcome back to the committee. i think you also for focusing your testimony on the many ways nasa benefits america.

one of those examples in your testimony is nasa's claim and earth science research which we know is essential to the health of the planet and strengthening resilience in our committees and echo systems. given research forecast extreme weather events climate events. we note data provides wonderful educational opportunities to inspire the next generation of scientists engage them, engage the public in thankwe you for nw earth information center higher headquarters in washington d.c.. helping with the critical piece of imprisoning science communication pretty stated in her testimony much of what we know aboutfo the change in plans rooted and nasa's more than 40 years of earth observations. in a suite of satellite resource support the earth science thmission and the scientific community providing access of

measurement data, air quality, ocean chemistry, surface biology just to name a few i'm especially excited about the contributions recently launched pace satelliteem plankton ecosystem. to improve understanding about a patient health. nessus and budget for fiscal year 2025 proposes to restructure the earth science observatory program by breaking into smaller elements. how did nasa arrive at this new strategy? what effect could the change have on nasa's long-term earth almeasurement and climate research? >> our strategy is to understand very specifically exactly what is happening to our earth and its climates. we have about two dozen space craft up there now that are bringing us various pieces of

technical information. we are pulling this together and a composite 3d understanding precisely what is happening. you mentioned one that was more recently the pace. is able to look at plankton. we are able to trace it in the ocean likely have never been. the a and there is air assaults which clearly has an effect upon our claimant. we had another one emit it was supposed to look at dust storms and how that was affecting the climate. low and behold we got a big byproduct from it. that could identify methane emissions very specific

emissions so that we could go and try to stop those or in the case that it might be an industry the industry might not know that it had methane and missions for. >> mr. mr. want to give another question i don't question the value of the program i just want to watch how the change in the budget in this new strategy will affect it. wayou also talk about the workig masses doing to keep carbonized and aeronautics research programs like sustainable national partnership supports projects to increase aircraft fuel efficiency for example. the electrified propulsion research can significantly reduce aircraft greenhouse gas emissions. considering numerous delays and cost overruns, what steps is nasa taking to see these through to completion? how can congress support that work nasa's during unsustainable aviation? >> well, we upwards of

$670 million in a joint project withth boeing. mid range single aisle transport aircraft that will reduce fuel consumption by 30%. that project is underway and that will be substantial. you take the boeing 737 is the most heavily trafficked commercial airliner. if you can save 30% of fuel by different design a high wing that is long and thin. therefore higher bigger fan jets. you can get 30% combination between the while and the wing. that is a substantial effort. we started on electric aircraft. you are going to see a lot of

industry exactly with the dual you stated very eloquently. cults save energy. >> chair not recognize the general from texas for five minutes good to see you again i'm cost mas about how much you know aircraft and stuff like that but where do you store all that stuff appear? >> congressman it used to be i'm kind of like an. bathtub. you fill the bathtub up of this residue on the side. fill it up again, drain it out as a little more residue. over the number of years we get an accumulation in here for. >> that is sinking feeling you have discussed this before.

let me go to my questions many employees at johnson space center live in my district there facility is doctor babbitt's thedistrict were trying to route clear creek around this. ,we have discussed the orbiting at the end of the decade not so much what it does to the people that are employed backing that up. what is nasa plan to do with the workforce the mission after 2030 is their plan? >> want to keep them. a lot of that depends on what you appropriate. as a matter fact, this two years 24 and 25 that nasa has cut $4.7 billion from my initial request. that will have an effect on some of the contracts.

at all nasa centers. i am hoping when you get to 26 that the congress may see the wisdom of some of theses. programs. but let me assure you, you have a lot of folks at johnson. you have a lot of really good folks on good programs. you will never have to face the situation that i had to face as a senator for the kennedy space center will be shut down the space shuttle. they had 15000 employees and they went immediately down to 7000 employees. that is not happening anywhere in nasaac now. it is much more manageable but a lot of it depends on the wisdom of congress in the future. quick some of the shuttle program going away and that was heavy on people's hearts. i am assuming they're probably thinking right about now are we facing a similar demise are youall communicating this to the

employee group? >> absolutely. what we are also doing, since you posited the question about the de- orbiting of the international space station, we want to do that only when we have commercial space stations and low earth orbit. in order to the research, and the training and so forth that we need to do in low earth orbit for our astronauts as they go further out into the cosmos. we think by 2031 the business case will have easily been made for low earth orbit commercial space stations. we have put seed money, significant seed money into three commercial operations that are now developing commercial stations.

>> we appreciate nasa taken the lead on this. thank you for that. china space station is in orbit the ccp would love to whittle down on american dominance in space wherever they can. your previous comments about commercial very, very encouraging. what is nasa's plan to maintain american competitiveness with china when it comes to presence in low earth orbit you set a little bit about it but extrapolate, expand on that some. we don't want china to be in the lead. you remember captain kirk the final frontier extrapolate and expand what you mean by that. >> by the way not letting them be in the lead means beyond earth orbitna also. it means also moon, mars and beyond. >> i agree. so for example we never want to give up this incredible

scientific research in leo. we are on the cusp of major breakthroughs coming up on pharmaceuticals for disease. let me give you an example of two. number one could true to a very effective drug on certain types of cancer. but the cancer patient has a take it intravenously frequently long periods of time. they have, with that drug found out how, through protein crystal growth on the space station to make that drug into a shot instead of intravenous. so the patient can go in to get a quick shot at the doctor. that is one example.

stem cell research being used on a whole plethora of diseases. what happens when you grow stem cells and 0g you can grow a lot more of them. on earth, when you grow them they clumped to the bottom and a lot of them die. and space they are suspended and they do not die as much. youow then freeze them and bring them back. that is just in its infancy in a research but there's a lot of promise therapy. >> thank you that i'm over my time it is a fascinating. we appreciate the help request domicile is expired the chair reckon it's a gentle lady from north carolina for five minutes. >> thank youis chairman lucas ad rankingth member lofgren for holding this hearing. and to administrative nelson thank you for the fabulous job you are doing at nasa. my state of north carolina has contributed to nasa for decades. it is the home state of james

webb. and then of course kristine garden one of nasa's hidden figures who broke barriers in the stem industry and in gender and racial equality is from north carolina. we have three members of the science committee from north carolina including my colleague congresswoman. kristine was the first african-american woman to be promoted into senior executive service at nasa langley research center. and just last week i got to join governoror cooper eight local educator and third grade class from the school in my district to honor astronauts christina cook. she is a three-time grad of nc state university and as you know the only woman selected to join the artist to mission. she was also a participant in all women's space walk which we are still celebrating. i want you to know i will continue to fight for robust

funding for nasa so that we can keep doing the incredible things that you have been leading. and, everything that makes groundbreaking research possible. so, to that end i want to follow up on some of the workforce issues that we have heard about today. so, we hear a lot from the burgeoning space sector we know that benefits the nation, exploration, our economy and that is good. it also means there is increased competition for trained aerospace professionals. and i wanted to know from you, to what extent does the increased competition for science and technical professionals affect nasa and your ability to fill and retain experienced top-notch people? >> congresswoman, you have put your foot in your finger on the

allure of private industry. to bring nasa folks into private industry because they can pay them so much more. it is a real concern. however, there seems to be a mysterious pixie dust at nasa that people enjoy working there. and the proof is in the pudding some of these wizards do. now certainly any success that we might have is due to the commercial sector as well. the body that you think of as an nasa which is about 60000 employeess is basically about 17000 civil servants.

45000is contractors. they all wear the nasa badge but they are all part of the nasa family. it is that combination that we have been able to be successful. and again, i tell you everything we do is right on the edge. when we launch next monday night it is a white knuckle time. but that is the business we are in. these folks really are rather incredible. >> i have absolute review. nasa stem engagement programs are also important to building that pipeline and stem students of all ages. it is important to track impact efficiency ever stem investments. i am glad to see her progress in developing and maximizing the use of stem gateway. that is the database that let's

us know what is going on. could you speak more about the stem gateway nasa's evaluation work inis the office of stem engagement? >> yes, ma'am. you have been generous with us in the appropriations to keep this effort going. reaching out with grants to universities, colleges, community colleges, all over america. we particularly for example make an effort to get into or rural colleges and universities so that we are not missing the talent that might be hidden out there let christina cook. >> exactly. there's a very serious effort there. we have a huge intern program at nasa that we pay them. we end up hiring 30% of our

interns. i wish you could see some of these interns and talk to them. their eyes are as big as this with excitement telling what they are working on. stem is very much a part. and mr. chairman, let me say as a part of stem what we learn from apollo 12 went to the moon and get all of that, it is so excited to generations off students that they became engineers and scientists and technicians. we are going to see the same thing come out of the artemis program as we go back to the moon and into mars for. >> thank you i yield back to work with generally signed expired the chair now turns the gentleman from texas for five minutes. >> for. >> thank you, mr. chairman and mr. administered a good to see you. i really like your analogy about the bathtub a while ago.

after a few decades i guess all of us have a little residue in there. i just need a little bit more and mine. but thank you so very much. >> amen. >> thank you for what you are doing and your inspiration. and i say that very, very sincerely. talking about stem the excitement and the inspiration that nasa instills in our youth to go forward. to create these wizards. so it is very exciting, thank you. i start by keeping priority programs. talking about this and submitting fy 25 budget request that largely complies with the fiscal responsibility act that the president signed in may. as we work on the fy 25 request we also have to finalize the fy 24 budget. i would like to work with you to

ensure nasa remains on track despite the challenging budget environment that we find ourselves in now. as you work with appropriate is to finalize that 24 spending plan i would like to call your attention to a few priorities of mine to maintain existing funding levels within space operations budget. congress provided you with a great deal of latitude. we hope you were able to use this in a way -- to use the funding appropriate for's operations i want to make sure we are all on the same page. while the final 24 appropriations for space operations is 46.7 million below fy 23 at levels the 24 request included 180 million four that the orbital vehicle that you sdb for iss. the original schedule for awarding a contract has slipped several times under even the current plan to award a contract

this summer. nasa could be challenged to allocate funding within fy 24 based on current schedules. i believe that within this given timeline nasa could maintain current iss operations at 23 rates. it is critical now more than effort to maintain full functionality of the internatiol space station mr. weber had mentioned in his questioning and support our current crew and cargo missions because of the amazing things going there. i was a healthcare professional myself. your story aboutat cancer and creating drugs and things up at 0g are very, very fascinating. i was pleased to see a mention on capitol hill two weeks ago the necessity of keeping the iss fully operational until we have the follow on cld. it is critical we maintain our presence in leo for that very

reason that he brought up a whilee ago. the chinese craft is up there as we speak. and so mr. administrator, i know you do not have this information at your fingertips right now. but would you provide us with the following information as soon as possible so we can understand the full range of ngoptions nasa has it implementg the 24 appropriations. so iss program can continue to return the great science and advanced exploration that has been coming back. number one, the amount of funding obligated for the u.s. dv in 24. number two, updated schedule for the award of the contract for u.s. dv. number 3a list of full-time equivalents and work your equivalent personnel for the iss a program for each fiscal quarter for the last five years.

and number four, workforce costs and contractor rates associate with the iss program including contractors of the last five years. last, number five, workforce costs and rates plan for the iss program over the next five years but mr. administrator i stand ready to work with you. you are a joy to work with. i've always appreciated you and all the great work you have done in your capacity as our administrator. but, we need to ensure nasa has therk necessary workforce and funding to enable the continued success, the amazing success 22 years of the international space station. can i count on you to work with me on this? >> of course. and i can tell you the first question that you asked in the 24 budget there is $180 million

for the starting of eight u.s. the orbit vehicle. which i am begging the congress in the next emergency appropriations bill, the one that will address in guam and the typhoon for the department of defense as well as nasa, that you include within that in the argument that i made earlier in the hearing, that that is an emergency because we do not know what president putin is going to be doing. and though for we cannot count that we will have the cooperation all the way through the next six years in order to be able to deorbit the station safely most of it will burn up. the big chunks that are left, to put them safely in the graveyard in the southern pacific ocean.

we desperately request that 180 million and the rest of the six year total funding for the usd orbit vehicle beat points in put inthe emergency supplemental appropriations. >> i understand very clearly. thank you picture time is expired the chair not recognize the gentleman from illinois for five minutes. >> good morning, i joined the chairman and the ranking member and welcoming administrator nelson back to the committee but thank you for your leadership of an asset during this important time. for our nation space program. as a self-described science nerd, being a meteorologist and now a member of congress i often tell my neighbors back in illinois how important science is. i explained to them how investing in science helps grow our economy.

create good paying sustainable jobs and addresses problems our nation neighbors face every day. that is why i champion investig and nasa. one of the nation's leading science agencies. why the work that you and folks at nasa do is so important. just this month millions of americans were looking up through their glasses at an eclipse. it is my hope the next generation is interested in science because of what happened. but also, as we look up her learning more and more about how solar storms on the sun bring us not only beautiful displays of the aurora borealis but recent events that disrupt technology and infrastructure. of the auror borealis, but recent events that disrupt technology and infrastructure. why is nasa proposing to cut so much of the hilo physics

division funding if we have such a need and understanding? >> well, we're not, congressman. and, by the way, as congressman babbin is still here, i want to thank the two of you for how you get along, you as ranking and he as chairman in the subcommittee. we wouldn't of, had we not had to cut a billion dollars from science. and that and i understand that and i said i would have voted that way but it's a hard reality for us and you have to make some choices of where your spending. the truth is we have a lot of good stuff going on in physics, and so we are going to continue with the president proposes and congresson disposes. >> if we are forced to

continually cut budgets year after year, does that mean that there's going to be a growing gap in funding because the public sector move farther away and what i'm saying is how do we need to the objectives for instance of the artemis mission's if we have a forecast for w the growing gap in fundin? >> that is what i've been pleading for that come 26 when you get out from under the constraint of 24 and 25 that you will hopefully be a little more generous in making sure that there's not that gap that you described. >> what do you think we need to do to make sure. i'm going to go back to the young stem the students for the moment, whenth we look forward o what we are going to learn, how

do we continue to meet the objective? >> we are trying to steer them in a way whereby having, and we have a lot of interns we send out a lot of grants. we try to distribute that across the board so that your finding talent wherever it is and get them enthused. another thing we do, we have a secret weapon and it's called an astronaut in a blue flight suit and we frequently have our astronauts grew into classrooms and i'm telling you there's nothing like getting attention and suddenly excitement into the stem field when they start talking about spaceflight. >> i always look forward to bringing that to astronauts in

my district and i hope we can do thatnt soon. i yield back but thank you very much. >> thank you and i'd like to recognize the gentleman from california, mr. garcia. >> mr. minister, good to see you again. feels like itra was last week, because it was. i've been losing sleep over this recovery thing for a couple of monthsit now and to use your bathtub metaphor, the brain drain is real. we are losing critical national security talent and workforce. i know the plan, i don't disagree with it.

are you going to be seeing potentially potato chip crumbs att the bottom, so what i'm worried about is the next four months, five months is there something we can do collectively to keep them to not impart anotherth significant impact to the workforce? because i am hearing it from adjacent domains that the mission agencies, that the layoffs are affecting not just nasa science but also dod and national security implications. can we look at potential options

neto bridge to prevent that from being drained to the point that it's irreparable damage? >> i've been losing sleep over this. the good news is what i reported earlier, i had that conversation yesterday with of the head of jpl they are going to get the cost down by using new and creative ideas and old legacy ideas that are much less costly,

so i approach thisan optimistically and certainly to get a sample back before 2040, that is too long. >> so i guess walk me through some of the acquisition timeline your acquisition strategy, you're going to get responses in may, june, some questions i'm sure are going to go back to otherio industry partners. is there an opportunity partner before october 1st to start funding this approach at some level that is not just necessarily the 30 million we ended up landing on? >> it's somewhere in the fall that we can take the ideas that are and then put that into a contract. >> so it may be enough confidence for a vendor, and i'm not trying to putut a finger on

the scale i want to be clear this is an open competition. i'm assuming no one has the inside track and this isn't wired for anyone, but when you get the good ideas back from all the competitors, you may be able to instill enough confidence and whoever the folks are, one or two, however many players there are to go ahead and do the investments on their own knowing that there is a lifeline in 2025 on the line item that would allow me to execute this program with confidence. >> that's my hope, congressman. >> that is very encouraging. >> i don't think it's the executive branch is much as the legislative branch, but i think the key is to figure out how to

make one plus one equals three and to get to a lower price point and get the samples back before 2040 but more importantly to keep that center of the universe asset in pasadena whole and if not whole, at least sufficiently so they are not getting behind criminal mass so continuing towh do that and looking forward to that partnership over the next few months and i will yield back. >> i would like to recognize the gentlelady from north carolina. thank you mr. chairman and administrator for being with us here today. the safety is always top of mind for me and everyone involved in overseeing the nation's space program. i know how deeply and personally you care about safety, and i know how vigilant you are in and ensuring that nasa maintains the

safety and culture informed by the challenger and columbia with which we are all so tragically familiar. but the world of human spaceflight has changed dramatically over the past decades through the commercial crew agency now regularly sends its astronauts to the international space station on rockets that are designed, built and operationallyy managed by private contractors. the agency is increasingly looking to use this commercial services model for other human spaceflight programs as well. as a result, nasa must be capable of conducting rigorous oversight over the safety cultures of this contract to prevent the development of blind spots in its own ability to ensure mission safety. i believe it is critical for the agency to have well-crafted and

targeted oversight procedures that can am sure it's contractors are every bit as committed to a culture of safety as nasa is itself. so, my first question is what tools and procedures does nasa possess to evaluate the safety culture? >> that is at the top of the list of everything that we do, we evaluate them and we are all over the design, we are all over the building of whatever the spacecraft or instruments are, and at the end of the day nasa if it is a human spaceflight, nasa has the veto. >> thank you for that. if they make recommendations about how they can improve their safety culture, do you expect the agency to follow up with a

contractor to make sure that the recommendations have been adopted? >> we do that and we do it all the time. >> and finally, do you believe the ability to conduct a safety culture oversight of commercial service providers is impacted by the agency's reliance on those providers for indispensable mission support? >> if that means are we letting anything slip, we better not. i point out one of the results was the space shuttle challenger andd the pilot of challenger was mike smith from north carolina. >> thank you. i yield back. >> yes ma'am. thank you. and i'd like to recognize the gentlewoman from oklahoma.

thank you, mr. chairman and administrator it's great to see you in oklahoma under different circumstances with the passing we celebrated his life a couple of weeks ago and i was honored tote be part of that. thank you for recognizing and honoring such an incredible oklahoman. let me start by asking you, i'm still fairly new to congress. this is my second term and what i've noticed is that there seems to be a lot of work being done in this arena that we tend to in some cases be silencing a lot of that work. how can nasa and the dod strategicallyy pool resources ad expertise to conduct essential research and am area of fiscal constraint that ensures we will have continued information for the leadership and civilian aviation?

>> well, aviation research is the first a in nasa the national aeronautics and space administration. so, where do the wingtips come from that improve the efficiency of the wings? where does the design, often these things that make aviation safer, more efficient and in the meeting i described the joint project that we have with bowing to try to have the single aisle mid range transport save 30% of fuel, all of this is a major part of what we do. it's not just space or aeronautics, it's also climate

as well because we have the instruments that measure the claimant. we are coming into a new era of mobility particularly in urban areas and so the old idea of the jetsons suddenly flying around, that's right upon us and we are researching that and what we found is that a lot of industry, commercial enterprises are having major breakthroughs in that and so we are all over aviation and that is clearly a very proud part of nasa. >> you sort of briefly touched on this but i think it is worth maybe diving a little deeper intoy it. as we look at a sort of what the next phase of space looks like,

what keeps you up at night? >> at the end ofer the day, defe the forces of gravity with millions ofke pounds of thrust putting human beings up there and very unforgiving atmospheres and bringing them back alive through the fiery heat of reentry. for the astronauts coming back from the moon they will hit 5,000 degrees fahrenheit, so that hopefully doesn't keep me up all night, but i know that everything we do like that we are right on the edge, but that's the part of discovery, that's the part of the adventure, that's the part of being in aer frontier mode, goig

out there and doing unusual things. president kennedy said it best at rice university in the stadium in september of 62. he said we go to the moon and do other things notgs because it's easy but because it's hard. and what we do is hard, but it's worth doing. i will maybeand wrap up by mentioning there is a lot of work being done by nasa todo encourage young people to consider getting into these certain aviation spaces and i think we need to make sure we continue that and focus on it because i have been to some of those facilities, and when you see these young people walking through looking at astronaut suits and previous videos, they get such excitement and we need to continue to foster that

because they are the future of nasa and do so with that i will yield. >> thank you very much and i would like to recognize the gentlemann from illinois. >> thank you, mr. acting chair andr. administrator for being here. i want to chat a little bit about the tempo mission underway and if i understand this correct, andnd correct me if i have this wrong the sort of hourly neighborhood level granularity, am i about ride on that on the monitoring capability is going to have? >> just one second. this iser a mission that is monitoring local pollutants in the atmosphere. >> it is one of the ones that is doing math, and what we are trying to understand, all these different things that affect our climate such as dust, such as

aerosol, such as the changing of the elevation of oceans and freshwater, all of these missions are designedwhat's

going to be the process for that data being made available to the public? >> it's available. >> in real time as it is released? >> there will be a lag of somemi kind of seconds as it comes back to earth. >> okay. that's cool.l. is there a potential to do that globally? and i'm thinking about things like several years ago there was a concern about carbon leaks from china that were violating internationalou treaties and i we would have the ability to pinpoint where it's coming from. it might not be in our national interest but is therewo a potential to make thisse global lorde is that created some diplomatic problems? >> global. >> just like what i mentioned

earlier. we have one that was going to look at dust coming off of sahara, low and behold unexpectedly it can pinpoint very specifically methane leaks and that's global. >> so you will be monitoring from that as well? >> absolutely. it's already happening. you are reading my mind and i'm intrigued. let us know if we can continue to help. a part of what i'm thinking on this isab that we are going dowa path to have global methane monitoring and tracking as a compound in the atmosphere. we know that the methane leak rates exceed what is documented if you were tome lie to the balance on the natural gas extraction and it's hard to pinpoint exactly who is

responsible. to the extent that this has the ability to get a granular and temporal, i would assume this starts to be something we look and say this particular entity at this time of day was operating and that locations we had some accountability. well that data then be what is the plan to coordinate with other agencies on the use of this data? >> it is available and it also is very specific. this is what we are set a pleasant surprise about the spacecraft in that we can pinpoint methane missions now so specifically thatth for examplef there is a polluter, we've got the evidence, but what we find out is some industries don't even know that they are emitting

methane and so this is valuable information for that industry to be able to stop it and methane of course is one of the major greenhouse gases and carbon dioxide. >> that's precisely why i asked thed question. we were up in alaska last year looking at permafrost would like to recognize the gentleman from florida doctor mccormick. >> thank you mr. chair and it's good to see you mr. administrator, captain. there are several times i get to see someone withth as many as titles as i do and more and somebody i'm a little envious of and to somebody that's actually

done something i want to do that i haven't been able to do. as a matter of fact if you have any advice for a guy that would love to follow your tracks into space someday, let me know i would be happy to meet with you for lunch. >> we need medical doctors to go to mars. >> i'm sure a lot of my constituents would like to send ppme their. appreciate you being here today and in all seriousness, nasa and space exploration are vital for the national security, economic growth, scientific advancement, international prestige and our inspiration as americans. just recently, astro lab startup founded by a veteran spaceflight robotics engineer has unveiled a groundbreaking prototype of the flexible logistics and exploration vehicle. if the artemis program that would mark the return to the

lunar surface since apollo 17 in 1972, is this kind of discovery that inspires the future generations of scientists, engineers and explorers, pretty exciting to me too. with this being said, nasa has been plagued by the same issues for years, constant deadline extensions. of highlighted the success thede international space statin and milestone with continuous human presence in low orbit earth. ityo has nasa approaches its 200 deadline to the commission for the international space station and aims to transition to a commercially owned and operated platform in the low earth orbit, do you believe that masi has an obligation to insert continued human presence in the low earth orbit?

>> yes. we recently talked about the pollutants and how it might be climate change. i think the one thing that worries me is we get away from science and in an article published backh in 2007 it tald about the heating of other planets in the solar system. in 2007 it continued. would you say there's more concrete carbon dioxide and vehicle emissions in neptune, jupiter and mars during this period of time just like there is in this earth? >> i don't know. >> i would say probably not. i don't know anybody building concrete orisod who has a vehice image and it also heating. i would say that is pretty much factual unless you know of something you haven't told us about so far. >> what i do know is that we are seeing the heating up of the earth and our instruments have indicated that and we've seen --

>> wouldn't discount that at all. and it's happened in other planets in the solar system. they don't have the same challenge as we do. i want to be scientific. we are science by nature we love the fact is, we love to talk about things that matter, things that could change but i also don't want to waste time and money on things we cannot change. we were talking about global cooling duringt some of the highestwe carbon dioxide emissis of all time and we've seen decreases in certain pollutants while they are just heating so i want to have a scientific conversation with you and i about what is causing the heating and can we affect it or do we need to put our money elsewhere to help us adjust for thoseat while the earth continus its natural cycle because i am a scientist, i do understand how much carbon dioxide how much the united states produces as a global percentage of that. would you agree that it could be due to something other than methane and carbon dioxide that is causing the earth to heat?

>> there are multiple -- >> there you go and that's where i agree 100%, multiple factors, some which we can and some which we cannot affect. i want to see our money go to the right place. i know i'm almost out of time and i want to ask one more question. at the international patterns are the key to the success of the artemis campaign and the commercial service housed within the science mission directorate has resulted in the first ever landing on the moon by a commercial entity in over 50 years. are there opportunities beyond the commercial lunar payload to service where the artemis campaign and science mission directorate had mutual interest in the development of commercial capabilities? >> when we are going back to the moon as a result of to take it back to 2010 nasa authorization bill, we said we were going to do it in a different way. going back with commercial

partners. program that you just mentioned interestingly is like we are sending scouts into the wilderness ahead of time on south pole to scout out for us before we get our astronauts there on the surface so that we've got a better idea. one of the things we are clearly looking for is water. we've got a couple of instruments that are going this year on missions. one called intuitive machines that is actually going to be digging on the south pole to see if there is water content. we know there is water there because we've seen the ice into the crevices of the constantly shattered rocks, but this is all a part of making the space program something larger than just as we went to the moon before, and we are going to the

moon by the way not just to go to the moon. we are going to the moon to learn how we can go all the way to mars and beyond. >> thank you. i'm without a time sowe i yield. i would like to recognize the gentlewoman from virginia. >> thank you mr. chairman. mr. director, senator, i am going to start with a question from my 13-year-old son who wants to be an astronomer and is a big fan of the great observatory. he looks at and uses images from hubble and even the now d orbited compton telescopes, but he wants me to ask you specifically about the telescope that under the current budget proposal looks like could be

ending and he's very concerned as i know a number of astronomers are that this could leave a blind spot in the collectionas of x-ray informatin in the future, so can you assure my 13-year-old son jackson that nasa is still committed to x-ray images in space and at the data that you collect in that way? >> early here i talked about how the compromises that you all had to make, which certainly i understand caused 24 and 25 to have less money and science adjust in 24 it's a billion-dollar cat. so you have to make some choices choices. it's been phenomenally successful but we have new missions that aree coming along.

we are going to keep it going as much as we can. you just can't sustain it at the previous funding levels, and so we are having a senior review during this year to get to communityfu impact on alternatie operational scenarios on the hubble space telescope as well to move to a more cost-effective way. i can't stand up for nasa money that we don't have. >> i understand that, and i thinkk that question that i just asked is an example of how important it is that nasa make science fun and exciting for kids because again the images that he has seen the from these telescopes havean gotten him moe interested and fascinated in

stem subjects in school and anything else that his father and i could have done. >> may i point out that chandra 25-years-old and it's having operational issues with regard to thermal problems, so we've gotth to keep it going as much s we can, but we have to lessen the funding. >> and i understand that. but can you speak to some of the programs that are focused on the younger students particularly during the summer and how they spend that so that we can get more students as passionate as my sonsp is? >> for example, the discoveries that we are having with the james webb space telescope is phenomenal. every day almost it seems like there is a new discovery if he's particularly interested in the

far regions of the universe. we are already discovering other planets. the ones we found thus far are gaseous but we have another mission coming that your son as he stays interested in this is going to be interested and it's called the nancy grace roman telescope, followed by habitable world space telescope in the 40s. we are going to be able to find other planets that are just the distance from a star that has carbon and water on them and lo and behold, that's beginning to be another planet like planet earth. there's so many possibilities out there. >> thank you. and going to work college

students, can you talk about how the budget will continue to support partnerships with hbcus and increase outreach efforts to students who are currently underrepresented in the stem field? >> we specifically reach out to hbcus and other minority institutions in the grant so grants thatwe give out we make e do that, and an example i gave earlier in the hearing is that forr example we give grants to rural universities and colleges that otherwise might not, a student there might not have the opportunity of receiving a grant like that, so we are trying as hard as we can to distribute that across the country. >> thank you and i will yield back. >> thank you and now i'd like to recognize the gentleman from alabama.

>> thank you, chairman, ranking member lofgren, administrator nelson thank you and your staff for being here to discuss the 25 budget request. i had the privilege of representing the fifth congressional district and contractors at marshall and also note i have full faith and confidence in the newest director. mr. administrator following a successful on crude test flight in late 2022, your agency planned to launch a lunar flyby mission organist two in november of 24. earlier this year the administration revealedd with various hardware issues the artemis mission is now delayed until september of 2025, nearly one year behind schedule. what specifically led to this nearly one year delay and what impact will this have on future

artemis mission's? >> safety. we do not fly until it is ready, and we never well as long as i'm around. i'veve seen seven of my friends suddenly be killed in a challenger disaster that was ten days after about flight that i was on. we are spending a whole new spacecraft and rocket to the moon. we are going to make sure that each is functioning as it should be. this new spacecraft is a very complicated machine and we are

simply not going to fly it until it is ready. a delay always leads to the need for more money out of any physically strained environment that concerns me. as the lead of nasa what actions have you taken to ensure the future emissions? >> if they are not ready we are not going to fly. >> it's home to the best in the nation. marshall has also proven successful in manufacturing products such ass the rapid analysis and manufacturing propulsion technology. how is nasa leveraging to the

best technology for future moon to mars missions into deep space exploration?n? >> marshall has a brilliant future and i think it's going to take that because it will take seven or eight months with conventional chemical propulsion. once you got there, you have to stay on the surface a year or two until the planets realigned so that you can get back in seven or eight months. >> and i would agree i think that is the only way we can get there. >> i think we have to go faster. >> they've partnered with all the universities and manufacturing excellence to improve the performance of liquid rocket engines, liquid rocket engines serve as the core state for the space launch systemin also managed at marsha. how can advancements in additive

manufacturing and liquid rocket mission performance be leveraged by nasa to mitigate the mission delays? >> we are doing that all the time. all of those new discoveries we improve as we go. that's the whole point of the development of the space program. >> the request in the space operations account below the level required for full operational maintenance of the international space station to ensure operational flexibility within the outlined budget while maintaining its commitment to transition from the international space station to commercial low earth orbit platform by 2030 integrating commercial services without interruption? >> are you asking specifically about the end of the

international space station? >> yes sir. >> okay that is 2031. we want to keep it going for the next six years. why? because look at all the science that's on it, but we want to replace it with commercial stations so that all the science, the training, all the things we do in low earth orbit can be done on the commercial station, which at the same time has a business model that they money on a commercial station bringing business off the face of the earth. now we have put some serious incentive money into three commercial companies to build a commercial space station and that is the intent by 2031 when

we would be orbit the space station that there would be the commercial stations ready to go. >> thank you. i yield back. >> the time is expired. we are down to just a few minutes to go vote, and so if it's okay with you mr. administrator, we will reconvene as soon as we get through the last vote. >> how many votes you have? >> seven. >> oh my. too many votes. okay? >> yes sir. >> you make too many votes. you've done a miracle more than i've ever seen. >> we are going to try. now i'm going to run there in two minutes. >> thank you. thanks