position of having general faith in politics, faith in government faith in the state through suspicion and fear, to embracing other apparently marginalized cultures in the state. right. that is the experience, not simply, i think, of ufo believers from the the late 20th century, but of many americans. i mean, that period as well as we we came out of the betty and marty hill era with a mass kind of national ■@sp fear, conspiratorial belief and so on and so forth's their in miniatu, too. well, thank you for that excellent summary and. all i can say is, as a writer, you've set yourself up to do an interesting sequel. this further investigation into this cultural complex. applause to matthewjoe holley ie

winning journalist andhorkedor e were colleagues. were y colleagues. the quality that san antonio deserves that was the slogan on the magic. yeah. ber e day the light went out and it'wr number of books ranging from baseball to, sadly's springs. i also want to tell you he he wrote edit chronicle one of the pulitzers he won was for that the editorial page editor at that point at one point was editor. and jeff told me about joe that d gi him any topic to

write about. andh' have a very nice piece. did he ever tell you that hnot . well, joe, i think you'd like to start off with a brief reading to kind of set things up for sure. thank you, rick. thank you all for coming. as rick suggested, i've lived in san antonio twice during my long life, but i have known san mother is from a little town called below san would go down there through san antonio from waco where i grew up. and so i always thought i like come to san antonio and i liketf this, this great city, you know, the alamo, zillow's delicata and rick casey, you and i have known other about 40 years or so. yeah. something that in any old house i don't know about that but anyway also as asal writer a

long time and still write editorialsand as you if you knog abouitwriters, you know that we instant experts orn forget it the next day. and i tell you that partly because want you to realize that the book is more about a grassroots movement among rural about policy or something of that. so with that in mind let me read youust a paragraph or so of what life was texas. in 1885. and this is july 4th, 1885aust'e independence day celebration. that's partly independence day

celebrating and partly celebrating the opening of the driscoll hotel on congress the the austin daily statesman reported thatetween 4006 thousand austinites gathered for the driscolleremony beneath a string of incandescent lights on beacon street. now sixth street. they listen to brass band, a string band speeches by driscoll himself, by the austin mayor and other dignitaries, an anonymous reporter noted that the ceremony was illuminated. remember this is 1885 illuminated not only by electric lights, but by and this is a quote austin including city 1885. you'll as long as the reporter started in by calling attentihee

cannot close this report without saying point blank that if all the young and ladies last evening reside austin, the city will its boasted reputation of having more■-diesnd ugly. than any city on the american continent. anyway, this thousands ugly men and otherwise listen to a keynote address by a prominent us and lawyer and land[d agent named edward w shands. he was an indiana native. he'd moveds and he invited his audience to imagine austinites at the sameown an intersection 115 years into

the hazy, distant future. id, would be the raising or ra then venerable old hotel chan's predicted that a quarter of a million peoebe lr city in the year 2000. he imagined looking back on their the austinites of 1885 and shaking their hds hs would respto their city at the dawn1st ntury. what would be their amazement if they could only witness the wonders which have been accomplished since electricity has been caught, and in a measure changed. and then he imagines what some

of what what might b happening in the year 2000 elect trickle airship would be ferrying from austin san francisco from thence to china and japan returning overa nd across atlantic to home again making a pl trip around the globe in a few days. electricity would be used send shock through people, causing them to live longer and in all diseases. americans of the future would be saved not only from disease electricity, but also from foreign invaders. predicted entire armies and hat dared to attack america would be instant, bolt.ssly destroyed with

every day. 60,000 copies of the austin daily would be delivered through pneumatic tubes to every building in austin. postal service would be delivering newsp home airships would drop the papers u breakfast tables of subscribers residing hundreds of miles distant fromn so that was mr. shands. mr. shands imagination running, iuppose. but. but now think aboe 20th centurye 20th century. and they are million texans and many more millions of americans

who in the 19th thirties. not only that, don't pneumatic tubes delivering their newspaper. they don't even have an electric light bulb in their house because electricity has not made it by the0s rural america. and so the book is about h that changed. let's talk about why that was because the cities by this time have been electrified. there are certainly parts of san antonio that still had outhouses and, you know, didn't have much electricity. but most of the cities aroundte. fiwhatas it like, people on the farm? yeah, well, about that, edison had done his magic just a few years before this fellow was speaking in austin. so austin san antonio, el paso, galveston that the state's largest city all electricity. if you lived in town, you're

your home. you know the major hotel businesses along houston street, they would all be lit up with electricity. if you live outside of town, if you lived where my mother dnbi'e electricity. my grandmother ran the generaloe 1930s and beyond. ing she she still had to rely on on coal. oil lamps and that was because the investor utilities that supplied energy to the cities of th state could saw no reason so to energize the countryside. there weren't enough people. it cost too much and they just didn't want to do it. and they would not do it because they would have to run a wire which might cost, i think, $5,000 a mile. and was just not enough people along the right, 200 people in

bigfoot, all scattered out except right there in that one little block where my grandmother had her store. and it just di't make financial sense. well, how did that affect the daygrdmother and your grandfather, their daily life? you know, it's fortunately before my time, rick, but. but you've done your research. yeah, i have done research. and also, you know, my grandfather on the other side was the other side of themily. a farmer in central texas near hillsboro. and whitney. and that reminds me that when my brothers and i were growing up and we would go visit him. my mother would always say, you go to the bathroom before we get up there, because, you know, he's got an outhouse. and and hidave electricity by then, but into the, i ink he was still relying on a han ywell, ye water out by he was stillg coau

knowhaveo do their homework at night with the flickengight of these lamps. women, the hill country. as robert caro writes in the lbj biography, you know, they they were having to use what caro robert caro sad irons because th heavy blocks of iron that you're to to iron a wrinkle sure that you have washed hand outside in a in a wood fired tub and so life hard and caro talks about how you would see in the hill country who if you gedyou n their sixties. they were in their thirties because of t h lives they lived in. their husbands were the same way. now what what kind of i'm sure of these farmers tried to be able to solve that problem. and what did they try to do and

what was the result. well my grandfather in county or anstors in texas living in the small townr the country in the 1930s, living the life that i just described. and so they decide maybe on a saturday to go into town and have a meeting with the power provider or the electric company for that town. you know, i can imagine you know, i can imagine the wives ironing a whiteor their husband and maybe they put on their best pair of khakisndt. and in a, you know, maybe a contingent of them goesntndays,d electricity. and the executive talking to will shake his head and. he would say, well, we're not in the charity business. we're in the business to make

money and we're sorry. but if want electricity, move into town, either thatr 00. yeah, yeah, exactly. get a loan out of your house. so just put in perspective, too, we're talking about more than a light bulb. we're tng about farmers who once got electricity, no longer had to milk their cows by hand. and a lot of that, i, didn't realize that because when the new deal cst way for them to get electricity, there were some of them, maybe some of those who did not go into townsking power for rural texas, where some of them were apprehensidn't they didn't really see a need a that light bulb that hung down from the ceilinthlivir companiewo tell that is

that you all you all won't have enough reason to have electricity. you just let it go. we'll get to that in a minute. i want to explore that a little bit more. the problem, of course was not just in san antonio. i know one of the statistics from your book was that in 1935, more than 6 million of the ip 6.8 million farm families were living darkness. and sam rayrn out that collin county that's where our inhails. it's not auburban area, but in those days they had 6089 farms in collin county outside of dallas, and 83 had electric. but it was even more that because the companies were they were not local, you know, mom and pop operations the■ ectric they were they had been almost

nopolized if i recall, one one man company owned about 25% of the utilities around the country. and when you mentioned,thespeopy were willing to work to get it, but they leadership. in january of his first term, askea certain texan to help him pass a bill that would ess the problem. let's talk that or. are we talking about sam or are we talking the young guy out in the hill country? sam rayburn yeah, yeah. rayburn. sam rayburn and those of you who are of a certain age, perhaps, or maybe you studied sam in texas history orbu you remember that how looked? i think he looked the same from age 35 until he died. you know, this this stocky squat guy with a totally head

permanent scowl, and yet he was nest and he was absolutely dedicated in a populist sort of way tose government for the people's benefit particularly for those rural texans he represented that that rick mentioned. and he would tell people, you know, you all probably haven't seen your mother and sisters using a and you haven't seen their red their red hands from y doing like that. and so he was to finding a way symbolically to rural t in fdr he found a a willing ally, a it by the way, he did more than fdr was more interested in than helping out in rural because these trust

were rapacio towards the city people too in terms of the profiteering they would do the they it's a natural of so he also you know broke up the trust and one of the things they did this is a sidebar to too joe's book but one of the things they did was they offered cities the opportunity to buy their local utilities. one of those that did that was n antonio and i won't go into that much to our benefit in san antonio now has the largest owned utility in the country and it's a your property taxes would be considerably higher if it if 't for that because they've been able to offer among lowest rates while giving 16% of your bill to the city for the general fund and hold down the property taxes. so that's just one other side benefit of wha fdr did to take

on these trusts. so that that was an unpaid endorsement ray of kpbs. that's true. yeah, i, i mean, i do get my electricity free doing that kind of thing. i had help me understand the structure. first of all, what was lbj from? lbj like sam rayburno ha seen those men and women in the hill country. andlso the hill country in the 1920s, 1930s. it was notfredicksburg today obviously are, or kerrville or johnson city. me, these were i these were backwoods communities cut from the rest of the state and most t except unless you lived in fredericksburg or of the towns, yave electricity. and johnson had seen those

people. these were his relatives who had had to work the way. sam rayburn's mother and sister. and so his slogan became when when he got to congress as as a young legislator, his slogan was, i'll get it for you. and it was hard, partly because a lot of a lot of those rur hill country texans were suspicious not only of government, but of electricity itself. they weren't sure what it did if. you pull that switch with the house up with it, catch on fire or whatever so. so some of them weren't particularly eager to get it. what was the structure of what electrification act of 1935. and i suppose model could have been for fdr with new deal to create or found an agency that

would come in to a rural area andld plant. but he and his advisers decided s better way. and so the rca becomes sort of a lending institution so that if you are living in the outskirts fg or wherever, you know west of san antonio, if you can persuade enough of your neighbors to $5, then you can take that. you can take that money, go to washington and apply a loan that was up a power f your. and this was l people actually over a long period of time of like we're forhe outrageous fees during storm uri here that that the gas generators got paying

for that over a very long period of time. so they were able to actually this not a burden on the taxpayer not a burden on the taxpayer. and they were 2% loans by law. that's and the money would be to set up a power plant and you had to have a certain number of of your neighbors interested in doing that they had to have a certain income. it was it was modest but you also had to the co-op let me backle bit the arrangement was a cooperative whicheaulbe democratically owned not for profit and enoug people to keep a power plant going.ey wld elec. they would elect their. but before you got that, you had to have someinthat the rca ended up calling. you had to have a person known ramrod, somebody who would

tr around the the potential co-op area and find enough the $5 and with the interest in establishing a co-op beforethe . so you know those sports term goat somebody is a goat. i do it means greatest of all times who was the goat of the ramrod. there were several one that i ris the woman named mabel douglas douglas with two s's on the end, mabel and her husband. and suddenly i can't remember his first name lived way over in east texas, close to not that one, but atlanta texas, almost in louisiana. almost in arkansas. her husband ran an auction barn called po'boys pony. you like the sandwich? and he would auction off

anything. he auctioned off a camel one point. but mainly cattle and horses or whatever. and mabel helped him run the auction barn. she became the woman. she became the rfor that area, east texas. and sheve is the 1930s she would drive model t all over piney woods looking for people, persuading people that an electric co-op was in their best interest. sometimes they didn't have the money, and so she would have to help find the $5 for it for a mbship in the co-op. i can talk, i can go on record. but just real quick.r later political career mabel■? douglas during the time that she was helping her her husbann auctiona restaurant or cafe there nr auce

dewdrop, our dropping, i think she had a little hotel boardinghouse. she was on the school board. she did everything for thttle t, douglasville. and then became mayor. i think she became mayor50s andg reelected. and finally t she said i'm retiring. i'm not going to be mayor and so there was an election she wasn't on the ballot, but the vote elected again. so mabel douglas ran or served as mayor more tour. he sd, i am quitting. this is it. but she would she was you know, she was a ramrod for electric co-op because she said, you know, this is good for us over in this part of east texas. this is going entirely too fast. got in the book a number of herc people and how people got tr.

one of the things the one one chapter i think is particularly interesting, frankly, i made most of my living writing about e there pr agents didn't want me writing about. an case that with personalities of one of the big firms and i want to go through quickly because actually it have a happy ending but tell us about what happened with the personalities i we have a place near bandera anda co-op. i get every year a list of have no idea who they are. so that's that's one kind of issue that you don't get the oversight that might want to have personalities was a great case of. so my wife laura tells her that sometimes i too far around to get back to the point but i'm going to i'm going to head in one direction, rick. and i will come back. okay. i hope so. so when i was a kid up in waco

and coming down just to to gf pass through these little towns on i think it was i-35, georgetown, round rock salado. georgetown and round rock. the population, one or both thoss might have been five or 600, and there was a stone quarry off to the west. and so those were dusty little dried up. texas and now, of course, you know what those lik and so personally electric co-op, the co-op the hill country based in johnn over not sure how far maybe they go to i''m n. it's a pretty good size area and in beginnings and they were among the first because of lbj centers of course, they were a typical rural co-op and the problems had in the 1950s is

that they're, you know, people were leaving in the 194 a leavid moving to sanio, llas and austin. now, course, they're you know, those towns are among fastest growing in the country. andy use that little rural co-op fe 19s is the largep states.country in the united and there their membership is obviously by leaps and bounds. so sometime in the 1970s, some cohort cohorts, i guess is the best word of kind of took over personality co-op and they were le make the board self rpng ty were able to pay themselves way more money most co-opers neral manager was making.

$800 something like thah. yeah and the average was about at that. yeah exactly. but, but they, they totally forgot that this a member owned not for profit organization until. finally some of the members began to question who are these guys and why are they doing what they doing, why are they make why are we paying them all this money they can't contacted. the austin american-statesman they got in touch with several weekly newsper hill country and began to expesy got it stopped and but this went on for decades. for a year. yeah, longime w per analysis. one of the best run one of the most progressive co-ops country, thanks to the members

for the most part, who decided toupon themselves to make change and. this is up around johnson johnson is the headquarters. yeah. it goes on on out to the hill okay. you know, i wouldn't want to give you theion that the what they call ious in the investor owned utilities just rda talk about some of the ways they tried to fight it. wellhe certainly lobbyists that they that they funded in washington i state capitals they alsoyhniquen the early days of the co-ops where they would spike heard the rumor that these farmers,rsn co-op, they would go out and knock on the door maybe someone like mabel douglass or or potential members and they'd

say, look, we build lines for you, you know, for and then for that neighbor back over there, for some of you. but they would they would to build electric lines for enough of those co-op members that it would wreck co-op. the co-op wouldn'ts to and mosti remember one farmer tkit how one to his door and said, you know, wiilu new your wife your wife will b refrigerator, a new so if you'll sign up with us with this new li building. and he said to hell you, i'm a member of the co-op they depend on me. and he slammed the doort. i'm going. 45 minutess ast. when i have time for some questions. i just do want to quote on the e lobby was sam

sam rayburn who. yeah he had a great great bit of poetry. anhe said it was the toughest meanest group of lobts the history of the country was basically what he said. get inoin my notes. but it was, you know, he felt strongly about it. it's great if you don't write queswe got i've got plenty moret if youth are two wonderful young women with microphone anybody. yes, yeah. happened with the eltrification and rollout for both african-american and the hispanic communities. because i would imagine that they were on the bottom end of the totem pole when it came to

bringing electricity in its that in east texas, for example there were a numberf african-american farmers and they they were members of the co-op. butso of them told me, i talking to a fellow in saint stinsaid, you know, we knew that's where we got our tre wen't really part the movement. ans anmportant point because in the thirties, in the forties, into the the electric co-op was an actual grassroots movement. people believed in it. i suspect th living the personalized territory these da you know they know that's where they get their electricity. but it's not the same kind of and my impression is that the electric co-ops had a hard time

incorporating their african american members into movement. it was a little better in south texas with hispanic members of the co-op, but it has been for way too many years. you know, a more anglo of thing. i think you're on to something. when i was at st mary's university in the sixties, i was a summer intern at the light. when i came, somebody pointed me to a six block area 2.3 miles from the rising tower of the americas where people were still had outhouses and wdcolonias ont just outside of city limits, people had to buy water off of trucks on unpaved. and they also had outhouses. so andt ancient history that those people and that's i think about i mean, rick and i are venerable

all but you know, it wasn't long ago that things like that were here in san antonio. ' to generations back in my family were families did not have electricity. you so it was a long time ago yeah these systems are. how were they? how were the generators? what was the if this was before nuclear and this was before it was a gas generated coal. i mn have a lot a train coming back and forth we're supied by coal here but what was the source turned the generators to generate electricity in the whole country. you know, i'm not sure. i don't think it was have been. what are some other and w i don't know. yeah, i don't. do you know i wanted to say water but that sounded too. i don't know. well, for some of them, like the whole sierra, that part of that's water. yeah of course. yeah. yeah. curious as to what what would powerenerors.

and now back to they're looking at geothermal. yeah. yeah. i mean and when rick lcr i that i think that's that's true. yeah. yeah yeah. any other questions. yes i'm not sure how well informed i am on all this but shouldn't the texas grid join the grid. that's that's a wle area and my answer b i'm. no, no all i know is that el paso which is not part of the texas grid didn't the problems we had during the you know i that i was an editorial writer an instant so if i had tit that editorial. yes. yes. in the back. yeah. um folks in lubbock have had

their municipal utility recently privatized. about, you know, moving from a muni to a private utility co up to a different structure. so i'm wondering, are there any threats to the personal cooperative people that want to privatize it? people don't t change its structure. and that's does your book any of those challenges that are political threats facing the co-op. not i. the question was, do has that beens on co-ops that people want to privatize them the some of the ious did yeah yeah i'm not sure i would suspect that that is the b i say for sure one of the key breakthroughs i learned g in his book was later down the line when they had become established, there became an issue where the cities be annexing and be the rurales would bome part of an urban area and ious were saying, well, then you know, we get to cover

them and they happily fought that off. yeah. and one of the arguments back in the sixties is that, okay, the co-ops done their job. you know, they have energized rural texas. and why do we need them anymore? and several presidents kind of backed that idea. yeah, exactly. including clinton. yeah, i'm putting clinton was thinking maybe they had done their task and we don't need them anymore. but reagan wanted to raise the interest rate from 2% to four, whh have been crippling them. yeah. anybody else? well. oh, well, that one. no, hold on. c microphone vibe. you in your book, the transfer of electricity to these grid people that are communicating. i mean they're using the public

utilities to generate power the bitcoins i've been through rockdale which used to have the alcoa plant where that was going. i think up around paducah as well. right. yeah. yeah. this is not a technical book it's a book aboutow aptly name, but it's about the people power. and it also about a when we had a government that believed it i its duty was to help people sty in that. and it's a grea it's we'll be 2 minutes early that's a recor thank you very, very much. thank you all