my dad lost his ability to drive lik' for young people lots of older people people who have any kind of disability prevents themmdrivg f transportation and simply does not serve them. and so like i abs there's a huge demand there's a latent demand forf transportation besides driving, ink tank or some futuristic they're looking at 75 years. ye and thank you for bring up the title of the session, which is the future of american. i was is like, yeah, i checked there's indeed i've talked to lots of think tanks and researchers. the ultit ofhe book is we should tear these highways down. so i went to the city of ■ removed a section of their inner loop highway and filled it in and built hou o it. and it is absolutely remarkable to see like land that used to just be exclusively for speeding cars polluted land concrete is now like three storey apartment complexes where people live and walk arod

brewery down the street. and that to me is like vision for the future is like we, we built these things over the course of a decade. we can absolutely tear them down. i think on that encouraging note, i for anyone had a question that we weren't able get to. we got we're gonna have to wrap things up, but i want to thank all of you for coming in. plelp . thank megan kimple. thank all. have a great day. thankas i mentioned, my name ise flores. i serve as chancellor for the alamo colleges district here in san. i was born in the rio. most importantly, my father was born in san felipe and served, graduated from san felipe. a high school was a city in del rio and. he's his past. but my mother graduated from del rio high school and we're fortunate. we've served and have lived here

in san antonio for for many and in my audience, i have in the audience i have my wife, marta martinez flores, and my daughter mia. but you all are here to hear from jesse esparza. and so i want to provide an introduction. dr. hassell's jesse esparza, who is anociate professor and interim chair of the of history at texas souern in houston. his area of eertise is on the history of latinos. the united states ehasize, the civil rights activism. dr. esparza'scr latino autonomy in a west texas borderlands town, was published by the university of oklahoma press as part of their new direction s.a. history series. it has already received two book yes.ds, two and countiri so the 2024 outstanding book award, the texas association of

chicanos in higher education or and the 2020 for texas foco nonfiction book award by the national association, chicana and chicano studies or knox. texas and civilhes rights history. he received his b.a. an's degret texas state university and a .d from university of houston. so if y'all wi and welcoming the good thank you. thank you. i appreciate the invitation. and i appreciate the space to talk about suchn work and such an important community. so thank you. so i know this is i mtioned my personal experience, right and connected in my my dad's mentioned the book. i want to do one thing and i just want to ask folkst om del f from there so we can recognize

them. so you know, we can know the audience. yeah, r sure. at that's what i wanted to actually with if you can if you can tell us folks who have may have read your book or who have experience in san felipe and del rio, can you can you us about russell schools. yes. so russell schools is essentially theryone of a kind school district that existed in a borderland town in the city of del rio. in this mexican-american counity, the city of del rio, known as san felipe and this isf the people who organized established in 1929. right. as we coming into the great depression large an independent school district, the first of its kind, arguably the only kind of school system that

would be organized by mexican-americans at the height of jim crow. that is, say, at a time with mexican-americans were segregated when they were disenfranchized when they were victims of environmental discrimination when they were overpoliced at mass incarcerate it. e this community in west texas in the city of del rion 19, on the cusp of going into the depression, establishing an independence school district recognized by the state board education then 98 now. but recognize by the agencies coming out of austin and it's an accredited school with an accredited high school and its graduating learners as early as 1932. that's what this story is this is the sort of the rise fall if you will and the legacy of this school district known as san felipe is the named after the community that birthed it. and how did you're from san antonio? we were talking about that earlier. right, and graduated from breckenridge high school. how did how you hear about or

come across san felipe in the story of the school district? so hadngp k-through-12 i've never heard of san fepe san felipe and even when i to college you know despite to change my major like for like most people do eventually landed in history as a major and even then as an undergrad i had never of the school district. then i got into graduate program and in the graduate programs still in summer school, i never heard of the school district. then i go to the university of houston and i'm uah there for two ars before i learn this schoolistrict, the school system and was actually my advisor, dr. gua sandalu miguel, who was a giant in our field and who served as my advisor when i went tommended te school district ascae when i initially went to uah, i to do the student walkouts, youe youth movements, the chicano

movement and what students were doing houston and dallas and wherever and. he i sd, hey, i want to do what you do. i want to write my dissertation on, the chicano walkouts.he w 't it's been done to death everyone's eryone knows that history you right and rightly so i mean there's a lot more work to be done. henew what i didn't know at that point. that moment was that we need to, as historians, rea focus on histories that aren't being discussed at all that no one hears about. and so was he who recommended that i mbe not switch lanes, but maybe move over a lane or so to consider doing community. and i was like, no, i don't want to do that. want to i want to do the walkouts. and he wasjust go down there and go see what you can find. so i went on an e there and i went out and i hung out from about a week, a week and a half. i talked to one or two peoplei s like, wow, i had no idea that this existed hers just i was fad and i was amazed and was hooked. so i came back to my advisor, said, okay, bet, let's do it. this is what i'll.

and so initially became my dissertation. it was my dissertation project and then that sat kind of t shelves for. and around 2020 i picked it back up and turned it into a manuscript, a two time award winning manuscript. i'm just saying saying. so you mentioned the week or so ye. so what what did that look like when you when you went? time, actually.ke i weac you know, this was a small communitity del rio. i had visited the real before. de rio, i had not been in thisd neighborhood. i had not known about the this community and and know sort of the historical importance of what had happened there. i knew of other significant moments likehethletic case, for example, that comes out of the city of del rio in 1930, the rs in e state of texas that tried to destroy segregation ch brief mexican-americans, i knew that. bui didn't know about san felipe. but it was like going back in

time and it reminded me a lot of when i use to visit family in mexico these small houses, these small streets and certainly it's not all like that, but this is what i remember when i first went there and that was my impression said, wow, this is. and then i saw that they had a seum, they call it a center, they called it a memorial center. and i it it is a memorial center,all more of a museum. and it's really a research faciouses the most extensive collection of memory, billion artifacts dico telling the history of school district in that community. and i h cin there and again. i was just floored and i was just i was just amazed by the wherewithal of this community to preserve this history. i meanesac of preservation and that that they engaged decades before i we there write this history. i'm not the first historian to or the first person to document the history. san felipe it i'm not and i won't be the last mean what i've done with this book is just the tip of the iceberg because one

ere's much more history that came out of this community and there's much more to tell for sure what what what is one of the most interesting process?hat you dg mexican-americans since before reallyr guess at the turn of the 20th century mexican americans have always resisted. they resisted the things that oppressed them. they fought back they weren't sort of these you know, they didn't stand on theideline and they weren't idle and they whatever resources were e,hey fought tooth and nail. they fought with grit and gardeners day. and it really sort of just tha mexican-americans have the long history of activism a, they engage what my good friend of my good mentor, cynthia orozco, calls a spectrum of resi is to say, they use the courts. streets, protest politics.t to

but also form their own it from religious institutions to cultural to businesses. also to educational educational spaces, san felipe, so, you know, that really was confirmed for me. and that's one of theshi that i really appreciated in my earlier research when i started doing this research. one of the things that in in looking and reading the jesse that i took away is what you mentioned. always think of the white women to have starting right in the fifties and really accelerating in the sixties. but you you say that it began earlier. right. that arc of resistance so that it began how much earlier i would take it back to the early 19 tens and 19 teens, because a lot of the the tenants of the chicano as we might understand them today this idea of autonomy, this idea of this idea, you know, being self-sufficien self-reliant and that existed in san felipe. it in the 19s and the 19 teens decades before. that idea was sort of really

propelled during the chicano movement of the 1960s and seventies and even into the eighties. and so i do do sort of[róó exted the periodization of the chicano movement. we understand it backwards into an earlier period. and i talk the revolutionary alisd in this community, a lot of that sentiment and a lot of that idea being inspired by the revolution in mexico ideals of freedom■ñ ad and liberation and uplift community uplift social uplift, economic uplift and so on and so and that was already cemented into community and so next logical step for them was to ensure that they controlled every institution in their community that included the schools as well. so that sense ofon of the one of the takeaways, i think for for readers is jus roe schools pla community as key anchors. so have you seen conducted

in in other writings and other manuscripts that you're developing havethis analogous or is this something that is is unique? it's a bit of both. i've seen i've seenvof of what existed in san felipe and other schools. i of a a sort of microcosmic level, not to the extent that it existed in this very unique independent school system, this school district demanded excellence in achievement among, the student body. it expected that these to pass every grade to graduate from high school and to apply and enroll andccepted in an institution of higher learning. andiselling. because if you look at what is happening to ethnican mexican-american learners across the state of texas during the 1930s, fortiesnd, fifties, most of them are not receiving an education. the eighth grade or, they maybe

can get to the 10th and 11th grades and are allowed to graduate as seniors, or they would not be encouraged to apply 's and places like that.ut they would be conditioned and service industry and those kinds th rich, underserved, the poor. but in san felipth was not the case. a san felipe demand it. thisow, manded this kind of success on the part of student t part of students and provided a rigorous academic curriculum hat epared him for to prepare them to stand the rigors of higher education. ane importantly survive beyond college educatis them would go to live in other in san diego and dallas and and san antonio and places that and so they wanted to make sure that these students can learn and survive even in what would have been a hostile environment, this very insular or protective environment that they hadatednd created

since the 19 teens that most of the graduates don't come back to san felipe go elsewhere and they might not find themselves in an insular protective environment. so the school leaders and the parents and all made sure that students were equipped right academically. but socially, culturally, economically and so on and so on. what are what are some of the thingsha as u work with students, right? a texas southern and they go through this book are you discuss the process what are some of the learnings you that you provide to them. yeah. so i teach at te southern university in houston, texas, which is an hbcu historically blac university. and i teach mexican-american history there. anhen i assigned this book, my students are mostly african-american. the response i get from them is, wow, i didn't knowt th mexican-american students had a similar history to the african american. and so there are a lot of parallels. and that tells me that the studentshat's their aha moment

for them that they're learning. nsider the the educational exces ri mexican-american as i looked at it i alluded to it just a few moments ago, but and back and kind of take a bird's eye view, we know that it's tragic experience.w at mexican-americas have a high illiteracy rates. we know that the are arbitrarily suspended or expelled. we kn' viewed as intellectually, that they're viewed as being towards is is historically speaking right. we know that they're confronted by hostile teachers and administrators and so on and so on. we know that certainly that they're segregated, that we know ir classrooms and and buildings are are properly or not properly managed or mismanaged. they're lacking the space. and sometimes they don't have water electricity, those kinds of things. and so it's a tragic learning experience for mexican-american kids across the state. but the other thing, the students sort w with is like, wow, this is kind of like this is going across against the grain here. this this is counter narrative

towards typical mexican-american experience in the state of texas. and in many ways is it's a very unique experience here. what is happening to these students and these learners in in the san felipe community for sure. and that's what students walk away with. what do you there's several innovations that you mentioned that school district utilized right early on. so it was the nexus in the community provided provided meals, provided actually pre-k prior to head start lbj. right. did a lot of other things. are there some other innovations that perhaps you discovered that aren't mentioned in the book? are there other things that you would have liked, have emphasized perhaps in your process? no, i think i got everything that i a find the time that the press needed me to find it. i did put it in the book, but yeah i think you mentioned something that's very important because. you know, this schoolt was in many ways, i mean, to be clear, district was teaching the curriculum that was sif austin,

just just like all accredited school districts across the tes of the school system, they it g curriculum. they steered the curriculum in a way to ensure that that it came to the benefit of their students. ed down the assimilationist character of texas curriculum during period or they sure to the mexican and mexican-american counity so that learning would be relevant to students or. you know they didn't criminalize speaking spanish the way you right. but way s.h.i.e.l.d. might have or the w houston is d might have or i'm hearing houston and so that you know spoke to parents spanish or spoke to parents in the language that they were most comab speaking and so it criminalize students and students see themselves as thba guys or as the enemy or as newcomers in the and so that it really resonated

with them. and this the school system did those things academica but beyond that, it also worked just hard to, you know, help with uplift of the entire i call it the holistic approach in the book because the school district also had all kinds of drives. i was really amazed to learn in the 1930s that the school district of all things was providing these vaccines and inoculation drives for the community. the community who wouldn't have had access to health care services in other parts of the city of del rio or outside of del rio, or perhaps in acuna. get dental work done.t to a and those kinds of things. but in the city right, they acc. but here the school is now serving as a critical site to provide health care services to the people in need of those ind all of this was free of charge and it doesn't have to do those things. that's not the job of tch district, but the school district did that because it knew it needed to transformative not just to student learners, but it need to be transformed to to t fto the entire community as well.

because if we all uplift and noneusft as with what the district and and studies and, graduate studies. now, what they tell you is that the community school. right so in a sense but we see that san felipe actually did that ago so very very imyeah and but the way we you know, it's a good way to think t y we sort of consider studies today a currulve o culture, a curriculum that is inclusive of community parents. a community i mean, a curriculum ose things in san felipe, in the 1930s, forties, fifties. so it's like a protocol, ethnic studies. so it's sort of th prototype, what eventually becomes ethnic studies, the term ethnic studies isven ined that already exists. this so i think based upon that discussion, right. i had aed if jesse would read a passage and he goes, oh, no, i

did like several. so tr's nothing better than actually hearing it from the author. an please be all right? okay. now, if you don't mind, maybe the markup course. so this passage here, it sort of. i tried explain the way san felipe existed both inside and outside the system of ecause one of the reasons that the school leaders are, you know, l this community founded this school district was so that their kids would not be segregated in what was traditionally a white, independent school district, a neighboring independent school district. also, there in the city of the real. we don't wa kids to be segregated, so we're going to make our own and we're going to educate them our own way. and we're going to do that. and so i sort of talk about fely

or perhaps on purpose becomes the segregated school system because it was at least 95% mexican-american. and so it almost are system that almost it does become a segregated school system. so i sort of try to deal with that,'asy ing to deal with. here's my attempt to deal with it in the book. worth is the unique way san felipe operated both inside outside the system of segregation. meca long history of challenging, segregated schools in lawsuits as in 1930. a year earlier, they formed a separateoo system and a school district to circumvent anglo dominated schools and segregationist policies. but more than separating themselves mexican-americans by developing independent school district, effectively shielded themselves from outside forms of harassment, creating an insular environment where students could develop cognitively, emotionally and socially that installation,

in turn,studts future and school persistence. the safe schools provided students with an education that made them competitive with in, an era when mexican-americans were typically viewed as nothing han the servant class. moreover, students learn how to be resilient in them economically, exploit discriminate discriminate against them in numerous ways with. ed eironment as a result, mexican-americans were better to educate their children prepare to thrive academically and intellectually mmuny. despite the harsh jim crow policies that disadvantaged them in sense. san felipe isda as a segregated educational unit proved beneficial as helped mexican-american students learn in the classroom and perhaps more importantly, survive beyond.

so what should what? what do we leave with with that with with that know, segreon bes all kinds of communities and, you know, integration is something definitely to be celebrated. but i think that it sort it muddies the water in many ways. and i think that a good thing it's moreht imagine. and if we allow ourselves to go in these complex kind of spaces, i think that we become better learners and better understand of sort of the way history operates. and so i'm never one uphold unrstand the importance of autonomy. i understand the importance of self-sufficiency i understand the importance of self-reliance and i recognize the benefits that can come from that. and you know this school district doesn't existmo.

it's now consolidated as many, you know, with a neighboring school district. so they were integrated in 1971. these two separate as these were in1. and i addressed that in my chapter. and there opens up all

rio, texas. the other thing that i hope that our listeners and our viewers wa is that i think that this we should also shift the focus where these studies should exist. t emphasize major urban centers when we look at civil rights and i think that there's something to be told about the borderlands, there's somethin to be told about rural s who don't get enough attention. the attention that they deserve. and thsothing to work. note here that we should focus, refocus and reorient the way we try to explore these these pockets of communities for civil rights activism and those kinds things. so htion and then we're going to open it up for q&a. but are are you with comments foreshadowing what's next for you? yeah. in fact i havet n told right. i've been violent by the desc of teachers from this community that should, you

kntakep another project. and they're here in this room and they're watching me. so i'm very careful. but no, you know, one of the teachers that i talk about in this in this in this book, irene gardner's cardwell is and a longtime teacher in this district, played a crucial role in making sure that students, you know, got to the graduation. d so in some of my earliest talks and some of my earliesttst to del rio and to san felipe i had met her sons and daughters and granddaughters and ah, excuse and nephews and nieces and, and so they sort of sd, well, you know, you should write a biography on la maddalena aro this card. well. and i was like, okay, i didn't have a title but, but i'll be happy to do it. i'm very proud to, to continue this, you know, i'm not san felipe, but i went and visited with them. they treated me like. i was born aai family.

they brought me into their houses. they shared with me their most intimate private moments and histories, their their triumphs d thr tragedies. they fed me. they took me to mexico. they taught me around the city. and i really learned more history from speaking to the of this community than i did searching all the archives that i searched through to to write this book. so i it's my privilege and my honor to say, yes, iill work on his biography. let's get it done for sure let's. so evokes a lot of memorie right and definitely i'm sure audience.questions in the dr. esparza so we have a microphone here in the center, and then i think there's a question in the back right on the other side of the camera camera. thank. i'm just curious whether, in your getting

community in writing your book whethero've of something called the border or going to say center perhaps some of the that. from del are familiar with whether you see any connection or links or emotional or other of energy that created the manifest itself once again in these organizing efforts of recent vtage. so i have not heard of that organizationagain, right, i thit goes back to what i mentioned earlier, is that one of the inarneas soon as i was done with this book is when i go on talks, peopleeand u got this wrong. this is how it is. and i'm constantly learning and new information really, again, from the people who are there. i mean, i whe bk, but i'm not the expert i'm not the expert on the people from this community

are the experts on this community. ge out of their playbook to 'm not familiar with that organization, but again, it goes bto, th is just a tip, the iceberg because there's much, much, much ln fr this and from the accomplishments of this community. also because one of the things that i argue in this book is that it's the only independent school district managed by mexican-americans. i hope andop this across as okay, but i hope that wrong because we want to make sure we want hopefully find that there are other mexican-american communities throughout, texas throughout the nation who are also doing as those are san felipe did san felipe should not be the only one currently it is, buhono the case for two too long. yeah, we have another question in back. d any of those same rigors that youcr the for

lack of a better word la raza sc district transfer two to the consolidated school district, or were they lost? yes, that's a fantastic question. thank you i'h also because what happens in the immediate a consolidation, this is 1971. by 1971, federal courts are forcing independent school districts, the state, to integrate with neighboring school systems who are identified as single race school district, meaning san felipe, was 95% mexican-american. so a single race school district, if you're over 60%, you are a single race school district. and this was happening with african, with anglo-americans. and so on and so on. this was happening everywhere. not just in in del rio, but into rio when consolidation takes clashes among, teachers and administrators over the curriculum as. teachers from there r don't care to implement the same

that teachers isda were implementing to, you know, to their to their lhey ashed and t, for example, san felipe ise de wa teaching bilingual education and after leaders from doe realized the move to strike it and so parents and teachers fought andy resisted and they kept it as part of the curriculum. and it will coue this this fight, you'll have english only movements that swthe city. you'll have americanization movements that sweep the city. you'lle movements try to remove these welfare, as they call it, a welfare programs. they try to do all these things. but the parents fought and the teachers fought to keep it, you know, as part of the curriculum. so, yes, it's a little bit of both in that it went away, but then it came back and then it went away and then it came back. and that's the ebb and flow of of sort of bilingual education and other of enrichment educationt program, like the adt basic education program, like the night school program, and

those kinds things was areat question. thank you. it was very good. yeah. all right. so the back is fairly active asking questions. so we' to. yes, hi. sorry. do have a question. i'm just kind interested in the timeline of your book because it's in the mid to late 10s, which is also the of the border violence with border pro know it as. right. but that inches i'm interested in knowing iis had any type of impact in the school becoming its own community that that is a that is a great question. well, so the focuses on the pers between 1929 and 1971. now i begin study in the mid late 1800s when the first originaluld arrive into this community settle the place and they would come from sort of thnoand northf milies, these entrepreneurectual

nerds who bring, you know, sort their entrepreneurship and intellect to this community. this is a literate of, you know, a community. and so i start there. just kind of to give readers a sense of when this community was formed. and then i kind of fast forward to the 1920s to talk about the formation of the school district, which would have been in 1929. and then i sort of end in 1971 with consolidation. but tmost kind of, you know, and also in 1985. so i got like four different starting and stopping, but to your question about you know, the violence happening in other parts of the borderlands against ethnic mexicans or by law enforcement who were behaving in sort ofhese extrajudicial manners, did that have an impact community, the school system? i don't explorh ined mhe book. my my answer would be yes, because it falls within that that that that that effort to

create an insular protective vironment and protection not just against segregation, not just aga aotrybut certainly against violence. of d rio, for xtent in this police violence community like it would have been in south te there are instances of that and during the massive deportation campaigns om the nation many of which would be citizen border persons from t n people of this community formed an organization t themselves from these forest removals, if you will. and so it falls in line with this to always protect the community. the community is first need to protect, secure, safeguard the people of this community to the best of ou ability. but that is a fantastic question. and again, goes back to there is much more work that needs be done. the so the border violence actually, the bob bullock museum

had, an exhibit and that's slated actually through perhaps that has poco to come to san antonio next yr. you know one of the one of the things in reading and our just that it's beginning to create dialog and ing the arc right that the movimiento began earlier are there other things we should be mindful as as laypeople right we're not historians could be educators folks in other fields. how can we lend to to the discussion and creating a critical mass to actually give voice to these stories so for a sense of affirmation and for future general for current and future. right. whathat do you recommend and my recommendation is to get this book and yeah and and i know how that sounds t don't mean because i want sales. okay, the sales will come get this book, read this book, go and visit this, and visit this community.

get recommend these books to your libraries. recommend these books to your cultural, recommend these books to your school, recommend these books. these are the that our children should be reading. this book is not on the approved reading list in the city of del rio. perhapw,n it should on on the approved list of reading books but yeah i mean it's it's really to learn this story and get the story out there you it it was a shame that i did community until into two years ofma graduate the peers do program. i should have learned about this school district in the third grade. in the third grade year and. so, you know, do what you can to get the story out. t ur local historians, support lo i give all praise to the librarians in this community, es community, to the to the expert historians live in resident , in community. it's because of them that this

book was able to be written a lot of it is gleaned through oral history. i give a lot of crce weight to oral histories. oral histories are fascinating ways to write stories. eyre fascinating ways to challenge inaccurate frameworks. they are fascinating ways to fill fascinating ways to recreate the archival rord when there original record. oral histories do that. and you know, i encourage you ybto wherever you go back to go do an oral history project, go talk to you talr fami to your elders, we'll talk to someone in the community. go talk the person ' running that grocery store since the seventies, there's history there. e's rich history there. it's richer than. you might think it is. i when we have time and appropriately we'll we'll end with your question. but i think now many third e history of san felipe so my name is david cardwell and my mother was guardian unscarred.

well and first of all, before anything i'd k yo mr. flores, especially your and your dad. i moved to california. your son is in del rio. from 71 to 73, and i don't know who with whom what's going to stay because i was going to go teach over there in california and your father opened the door to. me, so i could stay with. you or i could find a place. and i think it was my mother who called him and said then i learned what i'm your equal goes to goodness to.

there was kind of people that we were shared to. there's hope, feelings. for a very close community. the teachers cared for us. they loved us. the community was a one. if you did anything wrong in our community were you home? your parents knew about it because. they lovedand ey wanted us to succeed. and i think we were the second poorest school district in the state, texas. t higst number of doctorates in the state of texas for]< minority because the parents cared. the teachers as well and that's what does and that's what creates a winning once the consolidation took place it destroyed a lot of that.

when i got there in 71 and that was a teacher i asked where are all the troie ban uniforms? they were set fire. they destroyed them. you try to destroy our history. that is crime h that should not happen openly. can learn those lessons and carry them into the f■óe again. i'd like to thank your for letting me sleep on your couch and openingp me. i taught in folsom cordova un school district for 37 years and i returned to texas and i live wimberley, texas. but thank very much. appreciate it. thank you for that. you know,

you can hear it. you can hear it on his vce is every time that i sat down to interview somebody, tt ■zin and that pride, that emotion, it g. i have interviews where i have to just the recording to give this person some dignity and privacy to cry over things that happened years ago. but for them traumas them still as though it happened yesterday and but i recognize that that with that you know with those come the courage and the strength to really push forward and youy educate the the next gener tough this community. and so i really appreciate you sharing your words. thank you. you reminded of the interviews that i did down there. when i want to thank you, i want to thank you, mr. we honoring the legacy of san felipe. i only k stories my dad actually and from my mom

and reading the book evoked many se times that we were in the driving or that he, as we were going into rio, he would explain about the schools, about the golf team. right. the state state award winners, its opening en movie the long game. but i want to thank you for giving voice to a community to many individuals outside of san rion and the legacy that mr. cardwell mentioned. i want to thank you all for being here for a poignant afternoon and you've told us what's coming next as a scholar and historian, and also that if we are to by your book, whicall, we can do that through where there was the university of oklahoma press or you press dot org and you can also do it through amazon. you're okay with using amazon make purchases. well thank we want to thank dr. su