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c-span.org/podcast. >> water policy experts from western states joint science and environmental professors from iowa state university that university of colorado at boulder to testify on climate change has certain regions of the country are affected by water scarcity. the senate budget committee hearing runs an hour and a half. [background noises] clicks good morning everyone broke all this hearing of the senate budget committee to

order. let me begin by expressing condolences to might distinguish ranking member for the loss of life in iowa. h no doubt described as a pop rock elliptic touchdown. and cause considerable death and destruction. today we have a different topic >> thank you for. >> yes, sir. >> we address how climate change is making drought more severe question magnifies so many of the other risks we talked about in this committee. climate change exacerbates the severity of droughts. major agricultural regions like the american west of the mediterranean precedent less precipitation in many places art whiplash bite wild swings between drought and delusion. almost everywhere is experiencing increased heat. the most straightforward of

these is increased heat. hotter weather means higher demand for water to drink, to support agriculture but even to cool power plants. without cold weather less snowfall commits an mountains ts there's less runoff into streams, rivers and watersheds during the summer months. snowpack across the american west is down almost 25% since 1955. as temperatures go up the pace of water returning to the atmosphere from soils and plants also goes up. global warming is turbocharging evaporation and transpiration. without water the agriculture industry suffers rate manufacturing slows, communities empty out in a real estate values can plummet. the cost of running out of water can be existential. since 1980, 31 droughts across the nation average of $11.6 billion each in a physical

and economic damages notably not counting loss of life and other non- monetary harms. the true cost of drought or more systemic and amplify dangers this committee is heard about. the increase of a wildfires, these fires along with climate driven flood risks are creating an insurance crisis the economists says could cause a 25 chilean dollars hit to global property values. this was cover article two issues ago and i commend it to anyone who is interested. worsening droughts threaten national security per droughts have contributed to conflict and instability in syria, guatemala, honduras and el salvador united nations 1.84 billion people worldwide nearly a quarter of humanity lived under drought conditions between 2022 and 2023. the vast majority and a low and middle income countries. drought strippers sure world's

most important waterways and food production raising prices and growth trails years of drought depleted the panama canal couldn't ship traffic in this major thoroughfare by nearly 40%. intensive ministry in drought costs global olive oil prices to rise 133% in 2023. former executive director of aggregate giant, cargo, warned as a result of climate change including amiri, u.s. production of corn, soybeans, wheat and cotton could decline by 14% by mid century. by as much as 42% by late century. our infrastructure, the foundation of our economy is also harmed. glen canyon dam's electric generating infrastructures damaged by the low water levels new expanded reservoirs channels even plants could be needed to make up water loss. much of this infrastructure will likely be funded by the federal

government. more infrastructure means higher capitol and operating cost utility companies will raise rates putting the burden ultimately on households and businesses. claimant flows downstream. as droughts worse in some places just will not have water to meet demand. hard choices likely to fall most heavily on farmers and low income households. development options will wither in places where increased list to real water scarcity. even committees that were loyal on oil and gas for tax revenues should be concerned about the risks of drought water supports fossil fuel production cools of fossil fuel power plants. water shortage can lead to stranded assets for companies at a declining tax base for communities. today will hear about the crisis of water scarcity from three different witnesses who all face the same fundamental challenge, how do we make do with less? the hard choices and mounting

costs associated with water scarcity are the result of decades of negligence on climate. we have a chance still to make a different decision and i hope we will. i recognize senator grassley. >> first of all i thank you for recognizing the tragedy that happened in greenfield, iowa. if you're watching morning television that is national you would've seen on television this very morning. so before we start, since the sun is in session and i cannot be in iowa i want to share my thoughts are with the people of iowa during these troubled times. especially those in adair county. my staff is on the ground right now i'm greenfield touring on a measurable destruction from storms yesterday.

i want to commend the first responders and emergency managers for caring and humane work. i stand ready to help as our communities recover. sadly, several fatalities have been reported so barbara and i are praying for the families who've lost loved ones and for those who have lost their homes and businesses so unexpectedly. as to the subject of today's hearing, as with the previous 17 hearings i've invited qualified scientists to provide a reason view on the very real challenges that we face as a result of changing climate. i welcome to the committee formally by scientists of the natural center for atmospheric

research. he will tell tell the international panel on climate change is uncertain as to the impact of climate change on drought. in fact the ipcc has not detected strong trends in any of the three types of drought meteorological, agricultural or hydrological. in any region of the entire world. i also look forward from iowa state department of work on compensation shows us there is no reason white farmers cannot adapt to climate change. preserve our environmental health and turn a profit at the same time. rather than speculate on climate change doomsday we iowans prefer to confront problems head on. it's a problem we know better

than most americans. i keep track of ring levels each week when i going to the grassley farm. finally mr. chairman elect to submit an article titled quote the importance of distinguished -- distinguishing climate science and climate activism" of the university of cambridge and put that in the record. >> without objection. he's worried about activists who pretend to be scientists. we should all make sure we are following sound science. he hit the nail on the head when he wrote quote activists often adopt scientific as a source of moral legitimation for their movements which can be a radical and destructive rather than a rational and constructive."

we have seen our fair share of activist testify before the budget committee on matters oh well outside of what this committee was set to do i welcome all of our witnesses today. >> thank you very much we have five witnesses today including from new mexico and california and oregon who will be introduced by their senators. welcome tonya and senator lujan you have the floor to introduce your witness. >> good morning to a ranking member thank you for holding this important hearing on the risks worsening droughts have on our economy. and on our budget today monitor the opportunity to introduce my good friend fellow new mexican. i always feel grateful when mexicans appear before our committee sharing their expertise with our committee

colleagues. to answer questions to tough questions and especially providing perspective with more extreme drought conditions do mexicans know drought like few others but we have lived in it for centuries. mastering innovative techniques to conserve precious water resources and protect diverse wetland ecosystems. water is new mexico's way of life. the foundation for the food we eat, the businesses we create, and the cultural traditions we pass on. the testimony will illustrate the challenges facing water managers in the southwest and do it with extreme drought. it is not just new mexico seamless impacts on our economy. as a child it will make clear the future of our nation's water supply could no longer be dependent on lessons from the past but states are losing the tools they have relied on for a long time to anticipate future supply and manage competing needs. in the end it will be all water

lead users, consumers, businesses, farmers and ranchers and more that will bear the brunt of these decisions in higher costs and reduce supply. mr. hill also brings this committee are decades of experience on a water litigation, professional development, support, along with tireless public service to our country. as assistant secretary to the department of interior for water in science, ms. trujillo oversaw key agencies and management development of freshwater resources but she now serves as water policy advisor for the office of new mexico governor michelle lujan grissom or uncluttered counsel be used to help new mexican secure their water future. thank you again chairman white has sent ranking member grassley for this opportunity to introduce our weight as i look forward to hearing from ms. trujillo and the rest of our witnesses for quick thank you very much senator lujan. our next witness will be

introduced by senator padilla of california pre-have the floor to make your introductions. >> think it mr. chairman it is certainly my pleasure to introduce my friend and our witness today a fellow engineer, a fellow angeleno fellow immigrant chief executive officer for the metropolitan water district of southern california. the largest wholesale drinking water supplier in the country that provides water to 26 member public agencies. which collectively serves 5%, not just at the los angeles pop not just california population but 5% of our nations population. roughly 19 people rely on the metropolitan water district. just to put that into context for my colleagues, that is more

people served by his agency alone then the entire population of every other state represented on this dais. under mr. hagekhalil leadership is entering a new era of sustainability and resiliency in the face of climate change. and other threats to southern california's water reliability ap for joining metropolitan he was executive director general manager of the city of los angeles bureau of street services where he worked to integrate climate adaptation into the largest principal street system in the nation. i first came to know adele when he was assistant general manager of the los angeles bureau of sanitation. there are a few water managers anywhere in the country, and i would argue in the world, who have more experience with a better understanding the impact

of more extreme droughts on water utilities and their budgets. and what drought impact to utilities to adapt their water supplies and infrastructure to meet our drinking water and sanitation needs. and as mr. hagekhalil and we have spent time collaborating he has been laser focus on what all of this means for household water rates. and especially for low income communities water rates. so i want to thank mr. hagekhalil for flying hear from los angeles to participate today. mr. chairman, thank you for holding this critical meeting. >> thank you very much senator. our next witness mr. kevin richardson of oregon who will be introduced by his fellow oregonian senator merkley print saturday have the floor. >> thank you, thank you very much mr. chairman i am delighted kevin richards is here accompanied by his two cents a share on the ground experience of farming in our home state. our farmers and oregon are

facing immense challenges. the west is in the midst of historic drought. demands of art water have never been higher, while water levels have never been lower. climate chaos is making our summers hotter, drier, and longer. and oregon, his temperatures have climbed the average snowpack in the cascade mountains has dropped an average of more than 20 feet over the last 90 years. that means less water for our streams, less water for our farmers, and less water for our ranchers. and the supply of snow melts runs out earlier in the spring or summer than in the past. farmers across oregon have been grappling with these challenges. one of those farmers is our kevin richards from fox hollow ranch in oregon. he's a second-generation farmer. his family specialize in growing seed crops like carrots and kentucky bluegrass it pretty also goes peppermint oil, wheat, alfalfa, hay, before mr. richards dug into the soil

of jefferson county, he fought for our farmers here in washington d.c. as director of regulatory relations for the american farm bureau federation. he has felt the effects of this prolonged drought in central oregon firsthand. last summer, he was among hundreds of farmers who received only half as much water as usual. which means of course, fewer crops and less income. to address the shortage of water, mr. richards has invested irrigation modernization programs like drip irrigation and wireless irrigation monitoring to improve the efficiency of his farms. to ensure the crops we need and more farming does not fall fallow, it's about we support a family farmers like mr. richards. it is also important irrigation districts include efficiency in their delivery of water. that is why i worked across the isle with former senator thad cochran of mississippi to revive the department of agriculture watershed and flood prevention operation program known that cope is a pl 566.

to invest in irrigation modernization projects specifically piping of irrigation districts to decrease the loss both to the ground and to evaporation. we need many more of these investments across oregon and across the west said that in the future, mr. richards can pass on his fox hollow family farm to his sons like his father pass it onto him. it's a pleasure to welcome him here today be good to have you. ways

sustainable. he teaches and writes on a diverse range of politics related to science, technology, environment, innovation and sports. he is also a nonresident senior fellow at the american enterprise institute where he focuses on science and technology policy, the politicization of science, government science advice and energy and climate. we will begin with you, you have five minutes to make your opening statement and your complete statement like those that of other witnesses will be made as a matter of record. please proceed. >> thank you, mr. chairman, for the opportunity to testify on this important subject. thank you senator luhan for the introduction and thank you senator grassley for looking out for the iowans.

my mom lives in des moines and i'm happy to say hello to her. as western water manager from state i'm keenly aware of the need to be prepared for future drought conditions. on today's drought monitor map, unfortunately new mexico takes the prize in a bad way, but many areas have seen improvement this year. two years ago, the trout monitor map painted a very different picture with well over half the nation experiencing some of the worst drought conditions in recent history and major reservoirs hit record low levels. communities impose drought restrictions on water use and emergency actions were taken within the colorado river basin and california to protect infrastructure. in new mexico over 40 miles of the rio grande went dry. last october on a return trip to iowa city i participated in the

discussion regarding the severity of the on going to the drought there in iowa. we know that drought conditions pose challenges for every sector of our economy, farmers make planting stations based on the availability of surface water and grounded water, cities and towns have a responsibility to ensure that residents have water regardless of the hydrology that we have seen and subsequent rainstorms can produce brief flows. fortunately, we are working on these issues and in many cases, we've been able to develop strategies to manage and adapt to the trout. we are also working in parallel on strategies to be able to store and capture water during water times if those are the conditions that we see and if we

have the infrastructure available to do that. in new mexico like other western states we have made water manage present programs but we know we need to do more. in january our governor michelle luhan grisham released water plan that we need to work on to enable new mexicans to respond to condition that is may be on the horizon. the 50-year water action plan is based on input received from technical experts and water users around the state and it emphasizes the need to do more in water conservation among all sectors. it also recognizes the need to protect water quality and restore important watersheds and to look to the future to develop new water supplies. all of the efforts in the plan will require sustained levels of

funding and additional investments in infrastructure. we are grateful for the recent announcements of federal funding for water projects within new mexico from the inflation reduction act and the bipartisan infrastructure law, the new federal funding will be paired with state and local appropriations and will help our communities develop more efficient water deliver systems and create backup supplies for use tugger droughts. the existing funding is a good town appointment for the additional funding that will be necessary to fully implement the required actions. having strong partnerships is a key to all of these efforts. in new mexico, we know we have to work closely with our water users to manage the limited supplies we have available. we also know we have to work closely with our sister states and continue to work with them on lab rattive agreements for

water sharing. we work, of course, very closely with the federal agencies who own and operate many of the large infrastructure projects and it will be required to have as much flexibility as possible in those management station-making processes to make sure we can get through the test drought years that may be ahead. there's no doubt that the available funding works best when it can be utilized in conjunction with collaborative efforts among multiple water management agencies. mr. chairman, thank you for the opportunity to participate in this hearing and describe some of the ways that new mexico and its partners are responding to drought, the strategies and action under development will ensure that new mexico's communities can continue to prosper even during drought or during whatever future conditions we may see on the horizon. thank you. >> thank you very much, it's wonder to feel have you was. let me turn now to mr. hush de

leon. >> thank you, ranking member grassley. i appreciate the opportunity to testify before the committee and extend my condolences to the families in iowa, senator grassley, i also want to thank senator padilla for the introduction and partnership and uplifting communities everywhere not only in california but cross the country. thank you. metropolitan is the largest wholesale drinking water provider in the united states. we are commit with safe and reliable water with no one left behind. that's the commitment that we all have, that everyone should have the right for water. we represent 26 numbers agencies, 14 cities, 12 water districts, serving water to all 19 million people and supplying water support, economy of $1.6 trillion. water is life, water is the economy. metropolitan is known for complex and integrated water

system and our nitment to water use efficiency. this combination have long worked together to sustain the well-being of our communities. our water use today is the same as it was 50 years ago, double the population through over billions of dollars in investments and conservation, half the water we use is locally sourced. this year california and metropolitan has conserved and added record amount of water in storage. metropolitan has added 1.7 million water in storage in lake mead equivalent to 25 feet in elevation. 3.4-acre feet across in total storage in our system, that's equivalent of 3 years for our users in southern california. colorado delivery to the state in 2023 were the lowest since 1949, however, the challenges we

face today are enormous. water year 2022 was the triest consecutive in california. immediately proceeded by anded d from by 2019 and 2023. over the last 5 years we have swung from record levels of water in storage to record-breaking drought conditions and back again. california has always had the most volatile year to year precipitation in the nation but this roberto sing as we call the whiplash is unprecedented. we new adaptive resilient water management practices and tools. the redent drought challenge reliability to provide water to our area. metropolitan import half of its water from northern california, we are state water project and from the california river. during the last drought our water deliveries were to only -- would only enough for six areas in our region. we had to provide human health and safety needs, unfortunately

the slow water allocations highlighted the vulnerability in our system in living water. six of our 26 member agencies that we serve nearly 7 million people were severely impacted by water shortage as a result metropolitan, number agencies and partners, partners implemented extra in conservation measures, building our past actions and partnerships, will launch aggressive campaign that promoted water savings behaviors and $46 million in conservation rebates, landscape, irrigation efficiency members. hundreds of millions dollars to reengineer water delivery system and improve our flexibility. investment in 200 million construction project for groundedwater storage in antelope valley to allow use on us to store more water from the state water project south of the delta and north of our service

area. additional storage and conveyance projects are also in the work. i want to acknowledge the partnership with the proclamation and the commissioner, commissioner tuton and thank you for federal investment helping us move to needle on these investments even as california's precipitation becomes more erratic drought conditions are putting pressure on the west overall and what we are looking at. new infrastructure 3 cycle capture store water to ensure the communities that we serve have reliable water supply. these include projects like largest recycle project in the country where recycling 150 million gallons a they serve in 3.4 million people. metropolitan developing plan to provide road map to guide us into the future. weather extremes also have financial implications, drought compares to double town on on certify vagues and efficiency investment and more resilient and activity infrastructure. hot poll attended is currently evaluating new infrastructure

projects to improve climate resiliency including the largest recycle project in the nation. our capital investment were looking $30 billion in -- this is beyond what we can ask our rate payers but necessary to ensure they have safe and reliable drinking water for generations to come with no one left behind. sustained federal assistance in the form of grants, finance and mechanism and assistance to low-income households are essential as work to build more resilient, water systems and adapt to our changing climate but but all requires to partner and work together across watersheds, thank you very much. >> thank you very much, sir. and we turn now to mr. kevin richards. >> thank you, mr. chairman, for the opportunity to share the challenges farmers face as we struggle to adapt to a changing climate characterized by drought and water scarcity in the western states. i farmed a thousand acres with my family in the central oregon high desert. we raised livestock hay and

gray, specializes in grass seed and vegetable seed production. in fact, the county where i farm produces majority of global carrot seed supply. our region historically receives less than 10-inches of rain per year so we rely on irrigation water. federal bureau of reclamation built reservoirs to capture and store storm water where i farm. reduced allotments 20% of normal in recent years and it would require multiple wet years to restore reservoir and water supply levels to historic averages, how is drought impacting our farm communities, frankly, some farms cannot adapt fast enough. this spring there's already been 3 options in our small community to liquidate farm equipment of

multigenerational family farms who made decision to quit. that is taking a toll on our local economy and employment. our rural town has 3 major equipment supply dealers, one of those businesses decided to close their doors and relocate this winter. our local school district is one of the most diverse in the nation with one-third of our students native american from the confederated tribe of warm springs and one-third of our students from hispanic american families who immigrated as farm workers. irrigated agriculture is the economic engine that creates jobs and prosperity for these families and everyone suffers when that engine start to run out of fuel. less obvious cost of drought is impact on local environment. when irrigated farmland is dried up it creates micro ecological

disasters in the form of erosion, proliferation invasive weeds and soil degradation. sustaining soil health helps maintain beauty of landscapes and essential to farm productivity but it is nearly impossible without adequate irrigation water or sufficient farm revenue to justify costly inputs. all farms are desperately searching for ways to tighten their belts and find efficiencies, short-term solutions often come with negative consequences. it's painful telling your loyal employer they no longer have a job and sometimes cutting expenses leads to cutting corners and neglecting investments in maintaining soil health or deferring investments, nevertheless farmers like me who want to see american agriculture in rural communities thrive are finding ways to adapt and invest in drought resiliency. we are adjusting to crop

rotation. we are pulling out resources in on-farm conservation by monitoring soil moisture, piping ditches, upgrading sprinklers to the latest technology and convert to go drip irrigation. what collective solutions are available to enhance drought resiliency, robust farm safety net and risk management tools like those authorized through the farm bill are enormously helpful to ensuring family farms can survive the risk and volatility in modern agriculture. please continue to support those programs as well as ways to adapt those programs to be more viable to the specialty crops in western states. however, some of the greatest opportunities to say water not within farm within irrigation system, i urge your support for programs in funding that help modernize agriculture in the

continue today thrive throughout the 21st

century. thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. richard. we return to dr. castiano. >> thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. the alumnus i feel comfortable before this committee, i can safely say i worked with the best fishermen and farmers in the world. expertise in carbon nitrogen and i worked with a range of scientists, engineers and most importantly farmers to understand, design and implement systems that minimize trade-offs between productivity and environmental performance. i'm currently the u.s. representative of united nations intergovernmental panels on soils where i'm the lead author on north american assessment of status of the world soils report. climate change is a serious

risk, precipitation extreme creates challenges to farmers. we should take steps to mitigate and adapt to climate change when and where it makes sense without slowing of progress we have made to improving the human condition much of which is attributable to agriculture. in the last 50 years alone we have doubled corn production, annual rate, show nos sign of declining and the increase in production has been accompanied by significant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. nevertheless, em missions are significant and among most difficult to e bait because unlike other sectors they are not from fossil fuel combustion. by-product of processes that are critical for plant growth.

they can be extremely effective at adapting to climate change and refusing greenhouse gas emissions, crop residue management. more than 50 million acres of crop land across all 50 states benefit from sub surface strainage, this infrastructure connected networks, drainage pipes that can be valued at more than $50 billion, sub service drainage improves plant and soil health and allows farmers to make timely field operations that enable successful execution of additional conservation, precision fertilizer management. together these factors reduce greenhouse gas emissions by increasing yield while reducing nigh druggen fertilizer and although drains can promote nutrient runoff, opportunities such as wetlands which are among

the most effective practices and add diversity to the landscape. unfortunately much of our drainage infrastructure was installed more than a hundred years ago and it is deteriorating. in addition capacity of our drainage infrastructure is no longer sufficient owing in part to heavy precipitation and central and eastern u.s. the increase in heavy precipitation also reinforces another growing opportunity. the need for creperies due management. as i mentioned earlier, corn yield and other drops are increasing every year. great testament to farmer innovation and success in u.s. investments and agriculture research. crop residue detention to reduce matter. now creates significant

challenges for farmers. the extra residue keeps soil cold and wet slowing growth of subsequent crops and conservation practices such as cover crops. the usda agricultural research service and land grant universities have demonstrated the partial residue harvest and corn systems can increase yield, reduce nitrogen and scores of u.s. agriculture. moreovers can transformed to renewable fuels that can be made contributions toward decarbonizing other sectors of our economy. farmers understand and act on them. education technological assistance can accelerate implementation and maximize benefits of updating drainage infrastructure and harvesting of

crop residues for decarbonization and opportunities to reduce emissions can also contribute to productivity of our cropping systems, carbonization of agriculture and other sectors. going forward we cannot need not sacrifice productivity for mitigation. thanks for your time. >> thank you very much, dr. costello. final witness. >> thank you for the opportunity to testify today. for almost 30 years i studied extreme weather and climate. our work has been cited in the most recent assessment of intergovernmental panel of climate change or ipcc. ipcc is comprised of hard work and intelligent people who reflect spirit of public service. they are also humans and ip cc -- snapshots in time reflecting the evolution of scientific understanding. individual experts may have legitimate views that are at

odds and that s of course, expected in a diverse scientific landscape. i'm happy to report that the ipcc working group one assessment on the literature of extreme events in my areas of expertise have with few exceptions done overall excellent job accurately reflecting scientific literature. today i summarized with most recent ipcc report attribution at the global scale and also for the united states. i start with some key ipcc terminology. first, detection, quote, the process of demonstrating climate or system affected by lite mate has changed in statistical sense. without providing a reason for that change, identified change is detected in observations if it's likelihood of occurrence by chance due to internal variability is determined to be small. attribution. quote, the process of evaluating the relative contributions of multiple causal factors to a change or event with an

assessment of competence. third, drought. periods of time with substantially below average moisture conditions usually covering large areas during limitations and water availability resulting in impacts for various components of natural systems in economic sectors. it is more challenging to achieve detection than say hurricanes or tornadoes because drought can be defined and measured in many different ways in the context of significant natural climate vulnerability. impacts is even more challenging. it is more easy to identify drought trends in various places that are the result of internal variability rather indication of change in climate. often detection and attribution are confuses and so too is climate variability with climate change. the ipcc if i understand with high confidence 8 in 10 chance that human cause climate change

influences the hydrological cycle and thus drought. four main points summarizing ipcc findings. number one, the ip cc focuses on 3 types of drought, what it calls agricultural or ecological drought. first image. at the global scale ipcc has not detected or attributed in any of the 3 types of drought for any region with high confidence. that's 8 and 10 chance. for the united states which is summarized in the figure here which is in my written testimony ipcc has only lo confidence that it's two and ten chance in detected or attributes trends in all 3 type of drought for all regions with the exception of western north america where it has medium confidence, 5 and 10 chance and detection of attributions and chance in drought. number 2. looking forward to 2100 which is summarized in the figure also in

my written testimony. at the global scale ipcc does not expect that signal of trends and drought will emerge in any region of high confidence, eight in ten chance. for the united states ipcc has only low confidence, two in ten chance that drought will emerge from the background of natural variability in all three types of drought for all regions except western and central north america for agricultural and ecological drought and also hydrological drought in western north america. both at medium confidence 5 and 10 chance. so i know it's a lot of words but my written testimony include summary tables and paying user from ipcc report that is summarize ipcc findings and associated confidence levels. this is an image that comes from chapter 11 of ipcc. i think one to have last pages to have report. i encourage you to take a close look at it. in plain english, the ipcc

concludes that changes to the climate system resulting changes cycle and thus affects drought. at the same time ipcc does not have high confidence that research has detected change in past drought at the global scale or in the united states nor does ipcc expect with high confidence such a signal to emerge on internal variability even under most extreme scenario to 2100. such uncertainties in areas of ignorance can inform mitigation and adaptation policies and planning. fourth and my final point to be absolutely clear, i emphasize explicitly that human cause climate change supposes significant risk to society and the environment and that various policy responses in the form of mitigation and adalatation are necessary and make good sense. thank you and i welcome your

questions. >> thank you very much. >> hearing you, mr. richards, reminds me of conversations that i had with our fishermen in rhode island. i remember going out on a troller one day just to see things firsthand and spend time with the fishing captain who operate it is troller and he turned to me and he said, you have to understand that this is not my grandfather's ocean. he grown up beginning to fish with his grandfather. sounds to me like this is not your grandfather's land out in oregon either. >> i think that's right, senator. i as farmers i think we do relate to fisherman and we consider stewards of resources but one of those resources that we are stewards of is not just

the water and the oil and the wildlife but tallahassee cultural heritage that is kind of the foundation of american agriculture and resource industry is like timber and our fisheries and so we are working hard not just to, you know, save water and preserve the agriculture industry but preserve the heritage of american farming. >> well, we hear very regularly from senator merkley about the foresters, farmers and fishermen of oregon. could you give us decryption of that plan and its foundation and science? >> yes, thank you, thank you, senator. it is a report that the governor asked us to work onto really

demonstrate in new mexico and the challenges we may see if we do see a continued dry future. what happened we used to inform the plan was a variety of information that came in from technical experts including a report from 2022 that analyzed the impacts of climate change on our water resources, it was developed from a panel of primarily new mexico scientist and researchers who worked in the area for many decades and they looked at a variety of situations from soil, moisture impacts to ground water recharge impacts, service, surface water, implications, trying to predict what we might see in the future, all tied with certainty and we don't know what the future conditions are going to be but if we see a dryer future and we see a prediction that we may see

up to 25% less water coming into our systems, we have to develop actions to respond to that. and so that's what the plan does. >> thank you. you mentioned that business models for water utilities are having to change in the face of climate change. could you describe specifically how that's impacting the utility that -- >> sure. i think to me the previous way of charging for water was about the consumption water use and most what we call water charging. the more water ewe use, the more you pay but what we are seeing right now is that we are incentivizing people. we pay people to use less water and investing a lot of money to

what is through changing the landscape or conservation and farming, changing how you do that and that's why our water use is 50% half over water we used 50 years ago but for us to continue investing in this water resiliency and what we need to do is build more storage, more conveyance so we can capture water when we have it and dry conditions we don't have to rely on water we don't have, and to do that we are -- have to find new ways to charge for water without trying to rely on the less amount of water. our business model has to change. we need to find ways to generate revenue that is not based on the use of water. and sharing in the cost and also ensuring affordability for our communities so we need to find

ways, address leadership from low-income assistance program but what i think we need to do is how we can raise the money locally because we appreciate the federal government's funding but most of the money coming from local investments and how can we do it in a way that there's not force, force people to use more water. we are changing now and last month our board of directors approved for the first time increase in property tax to capture what we call the resiliency investment to help us invest across the board in projects that can move us forward and reduce dependence on the sale of water and that's the model that we have to do. we are more considerate and we look forward developing business model for metropolitan and region but also takes partnerships and i appreciate the partnership with our partners on the colorado california. you know, during nevada, for

example, our partners with metropolitan in southern california in building the largest recycle water project because if we invest together, we are helping each other reduce our dependence in imported water. so expanding the pie, making tent bigger and working together across the watershed and across southwest and across california going to help all of us continue to move forward and be resilient. >> thank you very much. my time is up. senator grassley. >> how can farmers in iowa maybe states similar to iowa improve their soil quality and limit emissions without demanding further input from the federal government? >> yeah, thank you for your questions, senator grassley. i think the way that farmers go forward and limit their emissions and adapt and mitigate to climate change, improve soil without further dependence is taking system's approach to

cover crops and system's approach, these practices, these conservation practice which is are named in the 40b, for example, they can't be prescribed indiscriminantly. on average, they me use crop fields. do many great things for the environment and as i mentioned sub surface drainage and crop residue management are two practices that help put that system's approach forward to allow other practices to go into the system better. that's where i see things going. >> and also for you, are you more concerned with whether variability or drought in iowa and how can iowans do best to what they can do best to prepare so that there's more rainfall --

runoff. >> sure. thanks for the question. clear challenge here is variability and precipitation and that's not just based on the science but it's what we hear from the farmers. big precipitation events as we saw yesterday that are a major concern. we heard in the testimony here today about the on going to the drought in iowa that was punctuated but may of this year which through yesterday is second greatest precipitation may on record. farmers are doing things too i want to add to adapt to droughts. they did achieve very high yields in 3 of the four years during sustained drought that we had in iowa including a record yield and one of those four years we saw a very low yield and that was due to extreme

precipitation event, storm that you remember very well, senator. >> given your scientific expertise, i'd like to give you an opportunity if you want to take advantage of it to address any factually inaccurate science-based statements that were made today and then i have a follow-up. >> yeah, thanks. we are in a period where there's a lot of what i would call anecdotal attribution. there's a tragic event in the skies over southeast asia, turbulence events, this is caused by climate change and the quick attribution of everything that happens to climate change flattens our understandings and these are very complex phenomena processes. i learned 3 things in reading my colleague's testimony that are fascinating and tell much more important part of the study. one is that the southern california water district uses

half of the water that it used to. that is an incredible story of human ingenuity and i have to follow up on that. the third thing i learned despite variability and change in climate over the past generation since my grandparents were young people, has continued to increase and is expected to continue to increase. >> and also i'd like to have you as my final question dr. pelky to ask you why you've argued that let's say liberals rather than people and just one political party are distancing themselves from the views of the international panel on climate change. >> yeah. i'm allowed to give you you an anecdote. i was invited by senate democrats and what they said would you come before the senate

and summarize what the recent at the time, third assessment and so i did that and then last week i was invited by senate republicans to come with the exact same request. could you come summarize. my explanation of this is that at some point ply mate proponents, activists decide to do extreme weather events climate change and went beyond what science can support and ipcc is no longer particularly useful making those arguments because as i said today, poured some cold water on anecdotal attribution claims. >> thank you, all the panelists. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you again for being here today especially to share new mexico's perspective with the committee. all new mexicans understand drought but the drought we are experiencing is longer, hotter and less predictable.

just look at the rio grande river which is not getting the attention that it deserves especially with our brothers and sisters including new mexico who depend on the colorado and legislation that this congress passed it also included the rio grande river. that's my way of trying to get the bureau's attention. that has allowed the rio grande to sustain the region providing constant water that supports over 6 million people in agriculture. that's all changed with increasing temperatures, snow is melting faster. to protect water resources for generations to come, how does new mexico plan to deal with

rising temperatures stronger drought and less predictable precipitation. >> thank you, senator, for your leadership and for your work on behalf of new mexico. we are thinking about how to deal with the next drought situation and the ability to manage as you said in a complex system of surface water supplies and ground water supplies that are interconnected. that ability for us to manage is going to be what we -- what we need to get us through the dry years. we are going to be also investing as i said earlier in the actions in the governor's 50-year water action plan that mean we are going to do more conservation in municipalities, in agriculture communities and system wide basis and we also going to have to look for new water supplies in the future if we continue to see dry years on

the horizon. overarching everything, we have to make sure water quality is protected. so all of those actions are on our mind every day as we are working to try to make sure we have water for our communities. >> i appreciate that. long-term trout is fueling more intense, frequent and unpredictable wild fires after the fire has extinguished. during recent common drought conditions, small burns can rapidly develop in mega fires multiplying damages in the process. that was the case in 2002 when the forest service lost control of prescribed burn, the largest in new mexico's history. among the impacts billions of dollars in financial damages, hundreds of homes lost, the fire left behind -- when man soon struck months later, wild fire debris into the city reservoir.

las vegas only water treatment plan with no backup ground water while running. it did not take long before supplies plummeted. mr. hill, how did the water crisis get so dire so fast in new mexico? >> thank you, senator, and i was born in las vegas, my family's ranch land is in the burned area and i appreciate your support and help that of all of our delegation in providing resources and assistance to our community. the city of las vegas is similar to many other western cities or rural cities throughout the country where they are relying on a single supply of water and in this circumstance unfortunately that supply of water is fed by the shed and the system wasn't able to handle the runoff and debris that was coming through area.

the resources that we have been able to assist them with include trying to develop cooperative agreements, trying to improve the infrastructure in the city to make sure they can provide water to their citizens and it's something that many communities around the country should be thinking about if they are in a similar circumstance to las vegas, so thank you again for your opportunity. >> thank you. mr. chairman, i have several other questions and i will submit them to the record and thanks again for this important hearing. >> very well, thank you very much. senator van holland. >> thank you, thank you, mr. chairman, and it's good to be here with you and my colleague from new mexico and i know a lot of you represent western parts of the country but as you know, drought and water scarcity issues are not limited to the west. in my state of maryland climate change is causing more intense summer droughts and salt water

intrusion which contributes to a growing water scarcity problem in our state and what you're seeing a lot of our communities are responding to try to remain more resilient. it obviously and we are looking at innovative recycling projects in maryland and i work hard with

my colleague to include inclusion of alternative water source grants pilot program and authorized but we have not yet funded it, provided appropriation, so could you just talk about the importance of water recycling programs and how they're becoming more important because of the impact of climate change. >> thank you, senator, for the question and i want to say is our success of the nation has to be through collaboration across the entire nation and that's why it's important as what agencies and utilities working together in collaboration under the association exchanging knowledge experience and what we need to do because we can't reinvent the wheel. next month i'm actually going down to university of colorado boulder to talk about how we do it. as governor newsom developed

water supply action plan, 10% of water supply in california is going to disappear and what we need to do is manage risk because water is so essential to our farmers. water is so essential to business as an economy and what we need to do is develop risk-base approach. so we can't put all of our eggs in one basket. so we need to diversify portfolio, what i call the one-water approach and as you are looking at fuel water in your community we are looking at water in california. we need to diversify our water supply and we need to find other sources of water that can augment it. 150 million gallons a day, it's going take water, treat the water that was going to go into the ocean and be wasted, recycling it and putting in the ground and we can put it up stream in treatment plants so during drought conditions we are not fighting over the water, would actually putting water away and not only for southern

california for the entire state and the entire watershed, by us working together in partnership and investing and appreciate the funding from the infrastructure bill that we have received in the bureau, i think we need to diversify capturing water is critical. infrastructure to build water around and how we store water whether underground or aboveground. it's a holistic one-water approach that we do it but recycling can with the technology we have is safe, doable and the reliable source of water that when we have a dry condition, we can use that water to help continue the economy and continue thriving of our communities across the board. >> i appreciate that. >> thank you, you know, many people when they think of farming also think of the midwest, we have a very vibrant

farming community in the state of maryland and salt water intrusion is reducing use of salt water for farmers who often lack water supply that they can turn to. we know that this will get worse as we see it, you know, it continues to see the impact of climate change, one of the programs that our farmers are using to try to remain resilient in their operations is the natural resource conservation service and i just wanted to get your thoughts on the importance of that as one to have tools to address these water issues? >> absolutely, senator. thank you for the question. the programs that are available, accessible for farmers are tremendously helpful in

incentivizing, they are very useful and beneficial, one challenge is they're not always available on an emergency basis when drought is threatening the soil health and kind of micro ecological disasters on neglected farmland and so i believe there's an opportunity to enhance some of those programs and potentially makes them available on more emergency basis. access grant funding through nrcs to build that program and make it more robust on a continuous basis. >> thanks for mentioning that.

i look forward to working with my colleagues as part of the farm bill reauthorization so to the see if we can fine-tune some of those programs to address those issues. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> i'm told we have two senators on the way here, one of the things that you learn quickly around the senate is that you can never believe senators about where they are relative to where they're supposed to be. there's a legendary story of ted kennedy and saying we need you on this vote, are you on your way, yes, he said, i'm at the airport. [laughter] >> leaving out that he was at the boston airport. crop residues is growing every

year. fuel that can help to decarbonize other sectors of our economy, can you elaborate on that sentence while we wait and see. here we two, look at that. >> may i still elaborate. >> you can still elaborate. >> as i mentioned crop residues, the production of them is growing every year as we increase yields, it's 100 pounds per acre, that's a significant amendment of residue. those residues can be harvested and they can be turned into biofuels, renewable natural gas, for example. >> ethanol. >> they can -- yeah, it could be. in our area, central iowa we have one plant that is transforming the crop residues into renewable natural gas and it's putting it directly into the pipeline. not only the big point here is that not only is that good but we are moving part of the

residues also reduces greenhouse gases which i pointed out as one of the hard toast abate sources of emissions in our economy at large. >> i will turn to senator romney because i recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm from the state of utah. estimates that this is the largest period of drought in the last hundreds of years going back to 1500 and last couple of winters we had relief. this last winter snow packed was 114% of normal, but that doesn't begin to overwhelm the challenges that we've had over

longer period of time. the state is taking a lot of action to try and address that. the legislate hour has changed, water rights legislation, they put in place trust fund, but it continues to be a real challenge. i guess i had thought as a nonclimate scientist that with all the warming there would be more rain and it would get wetter. we keep on hearing about more storms, more violent storms and so forth, wouldn't there be more water, wouldn't there be more water like iowa or nebraska or other places but certainly in the american west, the intermountain west we are seeing a lot less water. i guess question is how is and can agriculture adapt to that kind of change and are you seeing it in other parts of the

country? i will turn to you, mr. richards, you first, what can agriculture do in a setting where you don't know whether it's going get wetter and wetter or dryer and dryer, how do you accommodate that kind of disparity? >> senator, thank you for the question. you know, the history of american agriculture is one of doing more with less and so we are very good at adapting and finding ways to be more productive, more efficient with the resources that we have and i think you're exactly right, it's not just scarcity, it's the variability and the unpredictability of water shortages and so the questions i have is can farmers, family farmers who have family businesses like my own, can we adapt fast enough, can we change our business model, change our continue rotation, adjust to how we are going stewarding the soil and preparing it for the variability in the future. can we do that fast enough and

so as your colleague asked earlier, i think that there are programs within usda, within nrcs that can enhance and incentivize some of that adaptation. on the ground ultimately, though, we need investment in infrastructure and not just to save water but to manage it more collaboratively on basin wide approaches which some of the colleagues here at the table also mentioned and so in central oregon we are finding ways for irrigation districts and other water users which normally would operate in isolation to work together and manage things more collaboratively and invest in major projects that completely transform the way that we are using water. >> thank you. >> in iowa, what are you experiencing there in terms of climate and -- and to what degree are farmers and ranchers able to adjust? >> thank you for the question

senator romney. it's precipitation extremes. that's the biggest challenge for us and, of course, variability from drought to precipitation excess as well. we have a drainage infrastructure in our state just like everybody -- every state in the united states does. we are using like we heard earlier. we take water that comes off the drain, not only loss down stream, it mitigates that but also can be benefit the crop productivity later in the year. >> yeah, thank you. i just note mr. chairman, i think this is an important topic and happy to learn about it and ask questions and learn from these members of the panel. i would note that, i think, perhaps enr would be the committee that would be focused on this more than budget. i hope that we in budget can deal with the $1.5 trillion

deficit we have and find solutions because if we don't deal with that, we won't have the resources to be able to deal with emerging crisis as they develop as a result of climate change and economic disruption of various kinds. thank you, mr. chairman. >> and thank you for accepting my invitation coming in to discuss the prospect for reforms and health care that consist significantly reduce expenditures. i was grateful that you took the time to join me during hours office. senator marshal. >> thank you, mr. chairman, thanks again to our panel for being here. some of my questions may be redundant so forgive me as you'd imagine we are running back and forth to committee hearings this morning as well. ly start with mr. richards, look, i'm a fifth generation farm kid. i don't remember a time in my life when there wasn't some place in kansas that was suffering from drought and my grandparents would say the same thing, lived through the dirty 30's and this and that. and i think you would agree with

me that farmers and ranchers were the original conservationists and given the tools and flexility they are going to do what's right to the land and grow the most with the at least possible. .. senator, thank you for the question word there is always opportunities to improve those programs. do resemble your remarks in the sense we are optimistic and seeking ways that exist are more helpful through fsa the safety net that exists. i would say unfortunately those programs tend to be -- that

catered more towards commodity crops we focus more on the specialty crops. often those programs don't work as well or difficult to navigate for those of us the western states who grow smaller specialty crops. similarly those programs are very helpful in incentivizing conservation efforts, water and soil conservation. but often they do not work well on the short-term emergency basis. they are meant to or designed to incentivize paradigm shifts for farmers. but often, especially with drought we need to adapt right away. >> thank you. dr. kagan many of these practices are being forced upon us of things we have been doing for decades. 1991 i remember doing no till farming on our farm.

cover crops is like some that is something new but there certain places in kansas where that does not work. the western part of the said they simply not enough moisture to do cover crops we were ever we do we do no till farming for a lot of reasons for its economical and the great conservation. they were acquiring climate practices be done. it's like you can pick and choose again there is no way to do cover crops on the western third or western half of the state. if you have any concern loosing us the right thing to do? we will be losing some of the opportunities here by requiring to adapt all these particulars? >> yes, senator marshall. i share your concern. it is a significant hazard would concernwould prescribe conservan practices without looking at the sister that are in place. you made the anecdote about

kansas i will provide went over off to britain note tillage often is a work in north-central i was too cold, it's too wet. we do you think about the full system. those systems which are flat, erosion is not a problem for her to think about other ways to warm up and wrap the soil and get the crop planted. i like to say as you move towards rulemaking and 45 that we are have to be thinking about field the scale analysis and accounting of greenhouse gas emissions and conservation practices. how they are effective and specific scenarios. that's what we need to go. >> and just as concern about fsa with its equipped program or whatever program it is that we are over prescriptive we will lose some of our farmers and ranchers because they cannot do all of those things. believe me, they would do them all if it's going to work. the last question i will stick with doctor castellano. to do no till farming you have to have pesticides you have to

be able to kill the weeds in and that type of thing. there's a lot of frustration in kansas over the epa being over prescriptive is going to prevent us from doing so these conservation projects we have a drink for decades but how are you doing in iowa? any concern about that? >> in iowa we have some concerns. in fact we have seen an increase in tillage in places where no till works because of the lack of herbicide availability. effective herbicide availability. >> to simple again. if we just give our farmers and ranchers the tools, their quencher the right thing. why see coming up the next farm built or being overly prescriptive that very much consumes meat thank you very much mr. chairman rex thank you sender marshall. >> think it mr. chair. colleagues, there are a few places where the challenges of climate change, extreme weather and fluctuation and

precipitation are felt more acutely than in california. the corresponding water scarcity, insecurity, host crude challenging circumstances and at times some intense conflicts for water users in california. you can see from the river basin river basinon the oregon bordere delta all the way down to the colorado river. in all the places in between congress fought relentlessly the inflation reduction act include in funding for interior to help experiencing not just drought but severe drought. to drive collaborative solutions for water conflicts. just yesterday, i participate in a sermon at the department of interior with some of our agricultural water users in the san joaquin valley ira dollars

to sell the trickiest water in the san joaquin valley. you have work with interior to leverage ira investments to alleviate colorado river water conflicts with creative solutions. can you speak to important it is for congress to continue providing this type of funding? >> thank you for the leadership. to me, yesterday's sitter ceremony is an example of the collaboration. >> the farmers in central valley. and that helped farmers, help us be able to leverage that is a great collaboration adaptation of hermas have been leading the way and conservation.

they cannot do it alone but they'd financially. were able to invest a huge amount of money in the conservation appeared at work with the farmers who we call seasonal farming. that means if during the wintertime that's really valuable across the nation. as a huge competition for whatever they are farming. we can keep the land idle money to support them financially. the ira at help them and getting the funding to conserve more water so we can put back and not only serve california for doing

the same thing in the irrigation down by yuma aware by doing the seasonal farming to line canals and be more efficient. i work with the tribes. were apartment with the indian tribes we met with last week. to find new ways of farming. behind every farm there are communities and people that suffer. uplifts people and funding from the ira huge help in the reclamation is helper quickset is great. want to make temper what additional questions seasonal farming is a great example we been working on through alternative use of battle plans

as well. if that's funding for severe drought i want to highlight today. infrastructure as a whole has declined about 77% since its peak in the 1970s. congress has begun to rectify this by making transformational investments in order infrastructure to the bipartisan infrastructure law. we know funding through that measure is just a down payment is not the end all be all it is critical we continue to fund water infrastructure to up water systems become more resilient to climate change. the question she was helping hon helpingcongress best help waters continue to improve the infrastructure? quirks to meet the affordability question is huge. appreciate the bill introduced. and for us most of the rates can be raised locally but the

biggest issue we have as is communities are suffering there working two jobs or in san fernando or compton, we need to find ways to help them. we invest in the resiliency we have $80 billion investment when it's mechanically do it without causing hardship on that communities it's underserved or disadvantage? during the low income assistance program is going to help us increase the rates we need to do without causing hardship on the communities that we serve. >> am glad you mention the low income, german white house spoke to the need for low income water assistance program earlier as well. you know who is hardest hit when it comes to increase costs for the last question and closing is can you speak for a moment about the value or need to be partners and funding ongoing and maintenance operations. >> it is critical.

part of the ira funding one is how can we produce our independence on imported water? i will give two examples. a number of committees in southern california are on groundwater. a number of them are struggling with ensuring they maintain the water quality that we need whether it's because of some contamination. leave an interest in making sure those communities stay on groundwater if they get off groundwater and the systems fail they'll have to go to import water which is a huge rate shock. we asked to help us fund some of these communities in san fernando ann compton and santa ana in our regent to ensure they stay on groundwater protect them from the contamination provide our communities safe water. if we can continue those investments not only provide resiliency but also ensure we are doing the right thing for our future and safe water for our communities. >> one final thing colleagues

for the committee to consider is pretty simple example of leaky pipes and a drought stricken western i'd say the less think we can afford is to lose a significant amount of water supply due to leaky pipes which is simply a result of old infrastructure and deferred maintenance. if we are going to make these investments to upgrade to modernize our infrastructure let's not make the same mistake and get the better we maintain, the less likely will be in the situation in the near future of losing a precious resource to something as simple as a leaky y pipes. thank you mr. chair. >> excellent words to end on prone to thank the witnesses for prayer before the committee to the full written statements are part of the record. information for all satirist questions for the record are due by 12 noon tomorrow with signed hardcopies delivered to the committee clerk e-mail copies

are also fine. we asked the witnesses to respond timely specifically within seven days of receipt with a note for the business for the canoe think the witnesses in the hearing is adjourned. [background noises]

[background noises] [inaudible conversations] ♪ c-span's "washington journal" our live form involving you to discuss latest issues in government, politics, and public policy. from washington and across the country coming up thursday morning feature of the house freedom caucus virginia republican congressman bob goode discusses the israel/hamas conflicts. president trump hush money trail and immigration. then the atlantic council africa center director talks about canyon president visit to the u.s. this state of the u.s./africa relations. covering democratic come congressman a member of the

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