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the topic of our final segment this morning has been the one li by comedians, scholars, politician and common folks. for 100 years. who is buried. congrats to this morning. and timelesskw questions servess a lead to a seriouainful to remember the civil warwe havl of luminaries our panelists are recognized by any civil war enthusiast. but first of them why this man

introduction please hold your enthusiasm. to emi helen. he also serves as the tho w smith distinguished research scholar and director of the initiative on politics and statesmanship and the james madin program at princeton university. he formerly was a professor of history right here at gettysburg allan is the only three time winner of the lincoln prize for abraham lincoln redeemer. proclamation and gettysburg,hisa widely praised biography of robert. do you read about george miller wrote in the washington post exactly what the nation needs as it reappears raises important historical

times with assumptions based on life that michelle krowl servef. she is an author of several nd books relating to civil war and the world war two memorial in washington. she holds a master's degree and is from th university california, berkeley, and was once a research assistant for . michelle, is the civil war and reconstruction specialist in the manuscript division of the library of congress, where she oversees the lincoln papers. dana saf is a longtime editor of it's a multi-year partnership with the lincoln forum. he recy magazine to become director of interpretation for the national muum medicine in frederick, maryland. he is also an avid collector ofd photography.

although some family members say he's a hoarder of old hand tools. but no, no judging here. and he is a renowned battlefield guide. lissa winn is the marketing manager at american trust, the nonprofit organization dedicated to preservinged battlegrounds. prior to that, she was the director photography for history net, a writer editor, presvation advocate, photographer and collector of civil warhotographs. she is a member of both the professional photographers association the center for civil war photography. he is professor of american studies at christopher newport university. and as if those two full time vocations were not enough in his spare time, he has authored or edited some 16 books. we got a salty splash of his

shipwrecked book yesterday at the lincoln forum is very proud that our vice year's winner of the lincoln prize for his work a house built bylavisitors to the lincoln whie house. rn the 2023 lincoln prize winner. our vice chn, who will serve as the moderator of this morning's distinguished panel and now recognize theanel. thank you, chris. and th red sox hat ballot with back with you. as a phillies fan, it's been a hard year, but i certainly couldn't stand here and look at a red sox hat during this time. i wanted to open this session by introduction of final resting places. this passage was written by my brilliant coeditor and friend brian■ matthew jordan. so these are his words.

the civil war did few better or more efficiently than make final resting places between 1861 and 1865, an estimated. 750,000 soldiers succumbed to chronic diseases, enemy bullets or the effects of captivity. the war planted boes on battlefields, in cemeteries beneath obedieowmilitary headste crowded disorder of mass■ grave, some bodies were lost at sea. remains were scattered across the farms and behind earthworks, fell. death is nothing here. the poet as he surveyed the field hospitals aroundredericksburg. in december 1862. t the morning from your tent to wash your face, you see before you a extended object with a shapeless, extended object. it is the corpse of some wounded

or sick soldier. no oneak adieu. all useless ceremony is death, burial and commemoration were daily aspects of civil wa life. graves became sites of memory, both for those who lost lovedong generations, including ourú@ ow. about six or seven years ago, i had the historians to write short, personal, reflectiveavesite thad to them. i wanted themwhy it mattered too lost their lov about the civil war generation and what it can still tell us in our own time. we didn't want. we didn't want to collect a series of essays just about headstones and so instead, our contriburs diverse array of places that captured a broad and new history of the civil war. and i want to sh y just a couplef otographs of some of these places. and then i'm going to ask our

panelists tk about the that they took. glen le fantasy wrote about william oates, who lost his brother here at gettysburg on the second day of the battle. and he spent 40 years looher, ws brother's remains rested. he finally found out in e early 20th century they were at hollywood cetery in richmond. and glen's essay brought me to tears when i w reading the page proofs this summer, ron white wrote ahis extraordinary person, joshua lawrence chamberlain, ory humbl. dan blanton wrote about jenny ught a albert cashier andwho lived the rest of his life as albert cashier as a soldier and veteran who has two headstones in holloway who knows more about the uss than just about anyone else in the wld wrote about the turret of the monitor as a gravesite

because the remains of t sailors were recovered, and then years later, theyeived a formal burial at arlington national cemetery.■a■ michael vaughan berg wrote about the stone river as a grave and the story of 20 black soldiers who drowned after a careless accident by a white sailor and their grave became the waters of a river near charleston. doug edgton wrote about the foug the mass grave that have been discovered since that battle ansome othos moved d national cemetery and i'm so proud that thegeorgia press chos photograph as the cover lustration, because it was taken by a student of mine, chloe baker. these are unknown gr o massachusetts. that's men who fell in that battle. and it is very possible that robert gould shaw is buried

under one of these nameless stones. michael gray wrote about a t pennsylvania that led to hundreds of confederate p.o.w.s dying and being thrown in a mass ditch along the delaware river. melody andrews reflects on the meaning of the execution of the 38akota warriors who were executed in the day afterchrist. and mark schantz has a powerful essay about lincoln murder and a brick wall in norfolk, virginia. two ofur writers, caroline janeen, hillary green, wrote about the slave cemeteries and the confederate cemeterieon their university campuses. and jennifer murray wrote about animal. history is becoming very popular. and old baldy horse was died after the war and mea's comrades, they decided,

we got to get that thing out of e ground and taxidermy it. and so. take this picture at the art mu today. and of course, if we want to know who's buried in grant's tomb and if you don't know, we're not going to tell you. we had to he gr■fant, grant in a slightly different way through the lens of richa greener, an african-american college professor who was a fundraiser for grant's tomb. and in fact, not only does catherine reynoldsstory of greet now how he is commemorated himself at the university of south carolina, where he was a collegpr so this is actually jua sample of the many stories that come out in this book. where were historians reflect in a very new and personal way. so i'm going to start with michelle because she has one ofk and i'll turn it over.

i've asked each person to talk so, michelle so my story is about elizabeth keckley, who, as wathe best known as the seamstress, modest confidante of mary of mary lincoln. but she was born enslaved in she sfered all of the horrors of slavery in terms of mental and physical abuse. but was ablee her skills as a seamstress to buy her own freedom and that of her son in the 1850s, after she up in saint louis. and that and then she came to washington, d.c., and got in with the lincoln administration and was an intimate in the lincoln white house after lincoln's death. she was involved in the old clothes scandal with mary lincoln and in 1868, she wrote a nd the scenes as a way of telling her story, but vindicate mary lincoln a bit because as she's this woman so closely, she needed to own

activities as well. the letters to her editor that were included in the book, and they were very personal about the lincolns. and she essentially became a with most lincoln people. and most of us now know her beuse of that lincoln story. so my connection with this and hen i was an undergraduate, i wrote a senior seminar paper on elizabeth keckley and i kind of this is terrible, but i kind of promisemyself, ke, if i got an a on this paper, i will go to her grave in washington, because i got an a, but we never doubted. now, sometimes you do have to doubt, but but the problem was, as i had access to johnny washington's they knew lincoln which includes information about her her funeral expenses. it has a■ photo of her tombstone and you know, it describes where it is and that she'll be there forever. it's the bible verse that she had on it.

and i knew it was that at harmony cemetery, which had been the preeminentfrican-american seminary cemetery in washington when she died in 1907. and but i knew it was in washington, d.c. so i when i first when i was able to finally fulfilli basically moved to washington to work on my dissertation, i looked for harmony cemetery and it was i kept seeing land over maryland or another somewhere else in maryland. and i thought, that can't be right. and so i finally discovered they particularly is, as you washington. and and the cemetery had fallen on hard timemaintained in the 1. a developer offered to the property where it had been, which is now the rhode island and move the bodies to new harmony cemetery out in landover, maryland. so that's why i was seeing these landover, maryland, addresses. and as it turned out, about

1959, this started happening and there r 30,000 graves that were being moved from this one cemetery to the new develope contract said that he■ turned os no there was no clauseut moving the tombstones. so when i finally got out to harmony cemetery and i started looking, i, i couldn't finder od essentially it was explained well, there are no headstones iu the number and you can had flowi wanted to go put flowers h thee them because i didn't know where she was. so when john offered this this to do elizabeth keckley and talk about this and what ended up thing is and why i call it not so final resting places is first ofll shn before. but what i was dco parallel her

tombstone in her grave with her historicta and reputation because around 1907, she was she was known she had only, you know, been dead, for she had justied. passed, people kind of started to forget about her other than as a witness to the lincoln administration. and every few years, you know, maybe every 30 years, her book would be reprinted. but then starting in the civil more attention to her. and then ainterest in african american women. and she was talked about more and more and to the point tha lmost given equal equal status. and som■qimes books started com, mrs. lincoln and mrs. keckley or erth stage. there's now an elizabeth keckley so her her her status started to become more and more

pleased to see that tamika nunley had written an essay in which you -■never en see the words the lincolns, because it's all about elizabeth keckley and her extraordinlife. the other thing that started happening is that the book was publisd under the name keckley. keckley y, and that's ho had bey years. but when you actually find her signature on historical documents at the national archives for hension one of hern the herndon white papers, she spells it k e an extra e had been added to her name for all of that time. so in addition to the resurgence of h own identity, as apart from or very, you know, prominent withhen$qw lincoln's s her name started to be spelled correctly, she was regaining he. so about 2009, i think it made t her a tombstone at new harmony cemetery. and it was it was erecteda photn

it. gives her correct name. it has also talks mout her life. so as a result of this boo i was finally prompted to go back. and and sot@ when i was writingi was able to take my flowers and i was ableand so i felt like a r journey had finally been completed. thank you so much,■9 michelle. ellen, you're going to take us to a completely different sort of story. there's there's two ways of in out civil war. there's probably more than that. but there's two ways, l sense. one is like, michelle, you know and then you have to track down where the burial is. other way. sometimes you trip across a burial almost literally. and then you reconstruct the

story behind. i've had that experience near where we live in in payola, which is the western suburbs of d at old st david's, which is a so it has a pretty substantial graveyard. on one occasion, as historians will hear the kind of people who do this sort of thing, we wander around graveyards and ta notes. one occasionost literally bumped into abegan reading it 'd never really paid a whole lot of monument. and as it turned out, it was20 t listing everything about him, suddenly i realized it was a civil war casualty. young man, 72nd pennsylvania. oh, wait, i know what that .th'.

and then at th bottom. killed around cheatham, 17, 1862. and i thoug/cht exactly where his regiment took its casualties. i did a little further digging. i foa him. he was the son of the stationmaster at police station, grew up withinally distance of where i live. and suddenly, at that moment, you of neighborliss that you didn't realize you had before. now, in that samehyard, and on another occasion, i level with the ground, there was a small marker. well, curious, they killed the cat and will probably kill me at one point, but curiosity took hold of me and i got down on ald

all away. and i tried to decipher what this was, and it took some difficulty. and finally, after piecing it l i realized what it was saying was this mosesp malone, 45th u.s. city. i had no idea who national archs did. theyad enlisted in the 45th uscg from lancaster, pennsylvania. he was part of four companies of the 45th u.s. team, which were e at lincoln's second inauguration on fourth, 1865. we know the photographs of ding on the east portico of the capitol with the lass of water. and he's reading the second inaugural. but there ■x■÷raphs which have come more recently to light on the last 20 years from the same camera perch, looking

around at the audience of this enormous crowd of people and in thent rank of it is a rank of soldiers. they are black soldiers. they are the 45th united states colored troops. moses malone, as they are. yes. sometimes youy what you find. that wasn't thekelly. robert kelly been in particularly tip top health. he had always sufferedt@ from en before the beginning of a civil war from heart trouble. thwar exacerbated it. he suffered at least two major heart attacks during the war. after the war, he becomes president of the upper shenandod lexington, virginia. people have often scratch their heads, wondering why he became president of this little

college, which was on the verge of most of its students had gone off to the war. mostk3 of gone off to the war, too, and wasn' coming back. i think in large measure he took him because it got him as far away from washington, d.c. as he cod without violating the terms of his parole. remember, by that point, he was under inct treason. so he becomes president. out to be a remarkably successf college president. this man knew how to shake the apples out of the tree. he brings in more than a quarter million dol raises the student y from a dozen when he becomes president to over 400. i mean, that was that was a time in which that was a bigger student population than yale or the university of virginia. d t his health continues to

decline. and by 1870, his heart trouble has become so serious that he can hardly walk from the president's house, which is an engineer. he had design, and he can hardly walk from the president's house to his office in the basement of the college chapel without catch his breath. and finally, in september of this time in very serious terms. his heart failsuffers a stroke. the probably have recovered from thetroke, but his heart couldn't take the strain. and so he dies. on the 12th of october, 1870. at thatth abody was horribly rpsed by it. one student wrote a letter home saying, i've never seen a man man's health■d decline as seriously and as rapidly as i've

seen president leavesecline. that meant that there were a lot of people who were alreadya funeral and a burial might look like. so that after lee dies on the 12th of october, immediately the machinery is in work and there is a grand funeral. there is a viewing of the body in the college chapel. great ceremony there provided presided over by his former chief of artillery, william nelson pendleton. and lee is buried in the ■+the college chapel. but it doesn't stop there. ' it didn't stop there, too, because almost in a almost in a final indignity, they get the dates wrongption oy had that they week. but the college trusteedowoone o

change the name of the inutton and lee university. and the next thing they dos begin planning a substantial addition to the chapel as a burial place, a grand burial place, the sculptor, sir edward valentine, who had contracted to make a sculpture of lee before lee's death, is te a kind of memorial of recumbent the bac of the chapel is■f■t torn down, extended and apse is created, and this of lee is installed. there. why is the college taking all this trouble? because it knows profit when it sees it. the college is tnk things. one is this will continue to

attract students. students who in some cases might confederate army. by the end of the war, the confederates were■ digging dç6n fairly deep in the age deciles. but if theyhey could always be part of general lee's college. so we will put lee out in front because that will help us to arecruit students, but also it will help us as a tourist attraction for lexington, virginia. and the idea is going to be that lexington is going to become a source of pilgrimage for visitors from alluó over the country who will, of course, not unlike the town we're presently livingn, will will be the source of a great revenue stream. and that does not happen. and it doesn't happen because two years after lee's death, jubal early comes to speak in lexington and jubal early proceeds to tell us why the most

important monument to robert ely should be erected in richmond, lecturing john gets the valentine memorial. it gets it's reconstruction of the chapel, but it does not get the tourists. it does, however, have this figure of the recumbent lee on display, then for many, many years■. until 2017. right. to come back to that. yes, we can come back to that. thank you. we'll come back to that in the second round of questions. i all. you're just leaving. isn't there an adage at historical conferences you'd ever want to follow babies, dogs or the rich voice of l yeah. such as my lot. such as my lot. well, the person i'm going to talk about whose grave i investigated is someone you've never heard of. elizabeth keckley, or certainly like robert e lee did not belong

to a recognizable regiment as some of the folks thatv■mention. because i do have a very small collection of civil war items i was perusing onlinci dealers and there was an online shop, the iron horse military store, militaryues, and i was scanning whats arrested by s discussed seeing an civilians murder near adamstown, so they really weren't that expensive. there was an outline of what they contained and i purchased 0fvvthem and what i received wee very neat, handwritten affidavits from four men, and i'll not going i'e names to you.

and these four men were named george and charles brady. they were brothers, john crown and curtis wheeler. they were all civilians that rederick county, maryland, which is where i live right now in adamstown. and it's just 20 minutes south of where i live. there was another person involved named samuel calvin lamar, but there was no ■nial from him. miraculously, later, that same dealer emailed me and said, there'other one of those testimonials for sale at an auction house by a man named charles b davis. and i purchase that. and charles b davis was a soldier. he was a member of the first new hampshire three months infantry regiment. and i was very happy because i had a soldier'se of this as well. these civilian accounts and what these affidavits of it's discussed was an interaction that took place on a warm july

1861 afternoon between five and six in the late afternoon, the civilians i mentioned were on a and they were leaving the main line of the baltimore, railroad near a town called point of rocks. and if you've driven across route 15 on the bridge, that's essentially where point iraq is located. they were hand pumping their way toward adams town because a spur that they were on ran through adams town. and in the frederick, maryland. and these men were all from the adams town area. so they're pumping their way along. they were in pointed rocks. they were hanging out and they encounter a detached moment of these first nesoldiers walking n the same spur, all bedecked in their early war uniforms, gray swallowtail coats trimmed in red, gray capiz copies trimmed in red. the soldiers stopped the

ha demanded that the civilians get off a get back to their camp and one common thread that comes out in all these testimonials is that both drinking somewhat healy. i won't read you extensive quotes, but this is the tenor of what read in these these testimonials from various these various accounts.one a good deaf drinking. i had had three of whiskey and two of beer in point ales d, says, we had all been drinking too. you get a sense alcol is helping to fuel this incident. one of the soldiers becomes particularly aggressive. a man named samuel webster. he's a sergeant in the first new hampshire. he pulls his pistol out and demands all the civilians get off the handcart.

to samuel calvin lam a remain on the hand. webster fires his pistol in the ground near one of the civilians that had gotten off the handcart. and at that point, samuel calvin. samuel calvin lamar says shooting be --. you don't scare me. his pistol, shot lamar in the head, and he fell down on the ground. the civilians were frant.their t dead in front of them, and they oldiers to let them use a hand cart to take his body to the regimental hospital back towardhm point arrives at their camp. webster said. let the son of a -- die. i'm not sure of th■ae exact same

exact process that followed, but webster isand he will be placed in jail in frederick county and a local diarist, jacob engelbrecht, mentions the shooting and the fact that he's imprisoned. he will be acquitted of murder in november of 1861, whi surprik is a very pro-union area. the officer that had these items taken down was a lieutenant named william f greely. and you can just imagine this young0■ officer very early in te war trying to do his best to record this terrible incident. i had these documents and i, i thought immediately, lamar must be buried somewhere in the county. i would hope he would be buried nd his grave and i did some researc looked at some our archives, looked online. an at first i was i found a lead that he might be buried in a small village called brooksville, which some of you

may know. there's a cemetery there. i went there. i didn't i couldn't find it. and then my wife, heidi, who was a former director of the historical society of frederick county, said, you know, i re an old book, 18th century graveyards of frederick we got found the book online and it listed samuel calvin lama as being buried in the ortho thomas cemetery near point of so on a beautiful sunlit october day, brilliant blue sky leaves still on the trees myself, heidi and melissa, because we were bo worng times at the time, i went there to try to find his grave. we drove up and down main road and eventually i said, i think maybe down this gravel road. anwethat gravel road. and as we did, we were surrounded by soybean fields, but we could see there was a knot of trees, just a knot of trees down this gravel road. and as we got closer and looked down, we could see some gravestones. so i parked my truck, we got out

and we walked out of■she darkness, literally this cemetery, trees pr ground. we didn't say much. we gassed. we had to watch where we step brambles, sunken graves, feet ep fallen trees toppled over, headstones. so i picked one up 18th century. i picked another one of the 18th century founders of the area. ortho thomas was a early landowner in that area a it had been a family plot and is in the cases of many plots, it had been expanded for use by the larger community. there were otherames in but we couldn't find lamar's grave and wed heidi noticed a gy itself at the edge of the cemetery and we walked over in this grave is inscribed, lived facing east to meet the rising sun, as so many of them were at

the time, and there it said samuel calvin lamar with a weepingillow eroded and his death date of july 21st, 1861. this incident run use that to transition to melissa and i'll come back you to ask about the. thiss panel that we're going to we're going to we're going to leparking. i now have something in common with al and i thank you for that. i'll come back to you. i swear. so i'm going tore on that day. note to self. be brief. yes. i feel real f because i was asked by jonathan to take photographs of many of those fok that were covered. just going to show you a couple of the places because by by doing so i really feel like i

got a really good glimpse of what a different resting place might be. you know, what this book is trying to show is that these final resting places are buried. and that's the story of the war that this are all very different. so you can seecky,gain, her, yow original, final resting place is now a metro stop. she's been moved. an is this is actually another photograph of the the graveyard where seven calvin lamar is buried. and it's very overgrown. you can see now you can go ahead. so one of the rst was went to s rock in ysbu. and many of you have probably heard the story. he was in the hundred and 40th pennsylvania, shot twice, died at gettysburg. his friends buried himfarm neard they marked the rock with his initials, dea. and that allows for them to send

home to his father where he is buried. and his father sends some men out to gettysburg to bring his body back home and he is then reinterred in washington cemetery in pennsylvania. this is the essay in the book says by doing that they made first headstone and gettysburg by marking it that way it's an incredible story and then a very different one. the ne o rodgers briggs in arlingtonseth s o montgomery makes the united states army. he has controversial death between he gets in sort of ament between of himself and some maybe bushwhackers. the stories vary's devastated. into montgomery, site is near rk

creek park in washington, d.c. and he is then reinterred. and you can tually sort of an act ofs vengeance by montgomery miggs. h's buried in the first plot of arlington cemetery on the front lawn of robert kelly. i have to suffer losing my son, you' losing your home. and here's my son at your doorstep and his t m top of his cenotaph is very ■iemotional. it's it's it's moving. and this is it. it's death. it's got his gun laying next to him. these marks in t ground are u know, the soldiers that were there and his body that was laying there dead. the cape that he is wearing in this depiction is a gift that montgomeigto him a brief of shortly before this occurred. so it's a very moving memorial

to his son. but also, again, at the front doorstep of robert kelly. it's a very different gravestone. gravestone and resting and also at the same cemetery is william johnsonmplely different resting place. and completelyifferent sto of t civil war. william n, ocourse, is the servant of lincoln, who he brings the president brings him to d.c. with him from springfield. he has, you know, controversy in the white house himself. and lincoln really cares for his servant quite a bit and gets him a placement at the treasury, but ri him to some of his engagements or appointments with him still. and they go to gettysburg to come to gettysburg here for the speech. shortly after that, william johnson dies from smallpox. li pays off his house debt. he pays for his headstone d his his burial. this is a plot at arlington

cemetery. it is most likely his, but we don't really know it is. in the essay about this could be and it could not . it is a mystery. and why? because his story is vastly different than many of the people that are buried at arlington cemetery. the ne one is john wilkes booth. and this one was really fascinating to see. and then, you know, he's mark it. 's buried in an unmarked grave. he has no headstone. and i think we can all imagine why he's a shame to8xq) his fam. but his burial has multiple pieces as well. he's originally the government doesn't want to give anybody a place for his body to be a martyr. you they don't want an tirely new unites to come and worship over booth this de body so they make kind of a show of tossing him into the potomac river, but they actually bury him at washington arsenal. and then he's reinterred a few years later, the booth family is

trying to get his remains to buryadc(, recognize the ball, or at least inhe family plot. he's buried here in greenmount cemete in baltimore, but hehas . but he is buried with his family. this little spot plot here, you can see, is a foot stone for one of his family members. and people still to this day venture into the graveyard to pay tribute to booth. many of themut a penny on it. and of course, that's a very common practice. bu the essay sort of leaves it there, usually there are always left wi lincoln's head face up. he gets the last word. so and then the next place that i was able to go and this is a beautiful cemetery. even the cemetery trees are vastly here. this is oak hill cemetery in georgetown. very notable. people are buried here and this is the story ofheonf eintanton.

oled he was which was likely to early and he's sickly most of his life. and he is buried at this u can go fcemetery. there's two markers here that mark his head d then this one says, aged eight months. it's very tumic next one shows,s very vtldifferent than the cemetery that samuel calvin lamar is burieduried there. catherine graham is buried there. it's also veryb2 lincoln son was there, held in the vault and he would jamie iss well. so i to see lots of different resting places and for having t full piece of this.x■ e thing i really noted among all of the stories that people have been talking about and when

was sort of putting my notes together, was how many of these places are not final resting places? almost all of the stories i told involve a moving of the body, you know, in this sort of rewrite of their final resting place and sort of the of the past is not dead. it's not even past. so it was very interesting for me where i'm going to ask two questions and give them a minute or so to answer. i'm just going to ask michelle and dana something and then we'll open it up to q&a. we will go to about 1240 because we started late ando that way you'll have time for some questions to michelle. you open the essay byt elizabe's mother. can you just very quickly tell that story and why it matters so much to elizabeth's story in behind the scenes, elizabeth keckley mentions that once she bought her freedom and her sons and they moved to washington, she lost touchh. her own mother, who remained with the garland family in saint

louis&d and that she when she wt back, she tried to find her and there was no headstone and she couldn't do essentially, i'n try to get the quote out, b itpy to pay your respects to a loved one and you don't know where they are. and i of course, i had read that many times in reading her book, but it was not until after tried to visit elizabeth keckley. and, you know, obviously, she' e relative or something. but i had this connectioto reree scenes and i thought, oh, goodness, the same thing happened to her. so it was just very moving that the same thing had happed. but at least in her case, she's now she's now been found. and dana, you did a facebook book live from the site of lamar's grave. very quickly talk about what changed after that? you didt is sure. you weren't holding this somewhat

so to me, lamar is an unknown casualty. the civil war, he's not on any casualty list or casualty roster. and that juxtaposition with the first bull run really bears that out. but he's as muche war as anyonet fought or died t back, i've goe back several times and i on his. and there in picture as well that you saw on the screen and i reved them because he wasn't a confederate soldier, he was a and i think in some way these flags justify, his death on the battlefield. and he was the victim of a drunken inter session and we don't know what his allegiance really was. several of the friends on the

pushcart of his do go and enlist in a large whites 35th battalio. they cross the river into virginia and they fight for the confederacy. we don't know if he'd have done that. and it just. it's interesting, though, that somebody is paying attention and, going back and finding it. and the last taped a notice on e asking any lamar descendants to reach out to them in these places still have great resonance in our society today ith that, i want to thank our panelists and open it up tquestion■os. please go to the microphone so that the audience can hear you. bout 10 minutes, so please keep the questions concise and we will strive to keep our answers concise. go ahead. so comment. no question, john chamberlain, still no relation. growing up, a

tendency to anna age the pronunciation of words i didn't know, one of which was solely. relegated to the discussion of 'm sure you're familiar with, a wonderful book by the former this republic of suffering americans in the civil war. for those of you are not familiar with it, i commend it to you. thank you. eric, over here. my name is richard kramer. i live in a little town in northeastern powns very near us happens to be where my on hes well. it's called cemetery, there's a grave of a confederate soldier, so he's kind of odd. in there is the only confederate we have. and the story is that he was a prisoner of war and it was a prison camp up. and upstate new york. andhey were on their way there

when he passed and they buried him the. n'e i didn't know this discussion was going to come up. i have it back home. mention that because if anybody ever hears aboutl him, they can verify through me and i can tell you his name and where his where's his headstone is with his grave is some of the p.o.w.s who were in the train crash, survived and fled and a few of them were found, died later and and then in decades later, the and the families concealed where the burial sites are. so there are con throughout norn and upstate new yk as a result of that crash. let me go over here. could i hear alan's conclusion on. yes, i was hoping someone would ask about the significance of inz! jubal early declaring that i was actually almost at the end anyw, 2017 2017 comes

and suddenly the whole environ at around robert kelly changes and as a result there was tremendous m faculty to remove e lead name from washington. university. earlier the confederate flags that adorned the aps of the church were removed. there has been movement now to creating a screen behind which the valentine recumbent statue will no longer be for the remais of traveler at the front door of the chapel house has been relocated. whether this will move towards a call for re burials, the movement of note members of hisy from the chapel that remains to be seen. some people said, well, that that's really going to be a bridge too far. 't really think that's the case. i think we have to wait and see where the

goes. so you might say that the story of the burial of robert ely is not quite over yet. ed. ed stares i was a james oh halll coffman ■n a block the disentanglement of john wilkes b was 1990 or 1990 when ■and we were successful in that which i now regret, becau wherever i go, i'm told of course i know that booth ■esped and made his way to goodheart india. so the only solution to what thishe rest is to dig them up and prove that experiment email thanks in the book itself to go ahead in the book the essay does mention that when they reinterred him in this cemetery, he's buried with three family members on top of him. so and that is why tdi go through, because and to

reassure him was ao to reassert or to, you know, exhume him was toher family members who there was no cause for doing very quickly to the discussion rogers father, montgomery mags montgomery meggs was a very talented u.s. army engineer, fresh out of west point, his first posting was to saint louis, missouri. his c.o., who was an officer named robert e lee. go ahead. hi, eileen bradner, arlington, virginia. and i'm with the u.s. grant association as well. my father was a worldar two veteran from ohio. and at the end of his frugal. a child of the■ learned that he could have a place at a va ce wife,

and it would receive perhaps care into infinity, it can't tell you it was the joy of his life. and he said it's the last brebner bargain for for to get that free grave site and it is gorgeous i go there frequently i was just there two weeks ago with ohio western reserve national cemetery, but it's such a contrast to what we see here and. so my questions anything being done on an organized care? i know my daughter was in amer virginia. they do a lot of training in preservation work for cemeteries. so is anyone working on this on an organic? i think there are a lot of local efforts towardthat sor takes lol

community members and their resting places within keep themt and well and to that point, i have talked to some people about trying toet together to try to restore the cemetery or cln along those li. it hasn't borne fruit ybubecausd everything, i mean, i'm still workin it. and my father and mother are also buried in a va■q cemetery. and your point is so well taken because that cemetery is like your father's. well maintained and we'll be so perpetually. and then you look at this ortho thomas, where the people that gave their lives to help build this country and it's just fallen intolast question to wen. thank you. i alwaysl day, but there is an amazingrest, illinois, where pas

are buriedit it is just amazingk that lake forest this is lauded our people from chicago whoe lake forest their summer homes and then they built these big mansions and everything. but there's a tombstone on there that was dedicated by the people of lake forest to samuel tuscumbia, alabama, escaped foun the union army in 1870. he came to lake forests and established a popular livery business. his freedom papers were included in the cornerstone of first presbyterian chuh, church with d glass windows else. and when it was dedicated in 1887 and he even had his o funeral there, the citizens of

lake forest subscribed and erected and dedicated this grave marker, showing th esteem for a lovable christian, devoted faithful friend. so i think that's just so amazing that, you know, they would have this. thank you so much for that, =; thank our panel for. thank you. thank■íwelcome to