susan, barbara walters was known as a history maker, a groundbreaker, but why a rule breaker? you know, we struggled a little with with the title. and i would ask people, what should i title this thon dollar baby or baba wah, wah. i mean, these arrows she endured. and it was mind with some people when i when i talked ab walters.

but it was my it was my editor at simon and schusr,id she really me as a rule breaker.ruexactly right because barbara rule around. and, you know, she didn't them. she pretended she couldn't see them. so the idea that adn't do serious interviews, she just ignored it ahead and scheduled serious interviews. the idea that a woman can be paid as much as a man. well, she certainly blew that idea up. th idea later in life that a woman could age on tv, youn she embarked on her last big adventure, thew. so rule breakers seemed to me to be maker as well who can treat me on cover of the book is awh h already been forwhat is happening at that this picture is from 1976. that was the year she gotnnacle s newscast the abc evening news. and it had been a terrible experience as she was going into what we today would call a hostile workplace.

reasoner, initially threatened to quithe treated her with such contempt on the air that thedoing two shots. now, i know you wanted to show that, but a two shot is where . but they were afraid to show harry reasoner listening to barbara walters on the air because he was so often scowling. i was going to say he he could scowl and make a kind of a physic all response to her without having to utter a word. ctly clear. abc started to get lettersn viewers, saying, what in the world is going on? this form letter in response to said, plse know is going to work out all right. that's how bad it was.barbara walters, she felt she was failing. she felt she not only was she drowning, she said, but there were people who wanted water. and this was a point where she was not entirely sure if she would recover, if wo her ambitions had gotten so big that they would undermine already had scored. well, let me take you a year head. of 1977 and president

carter was visiting iran new year's eve with therbara and i were both for abc news on the tripr lambs in tehran just ahead of air for waiting for me to whisk me over to a the president, was going to go visit right from the sedan sitting behind this iranian driver, and there's an interpreter in the front seat and egyptian. i'm told that the reason there's an interpreter is because an iranian man never take driving directions from a woman. driver would like to know if you know walters. tehran, 1977. i saidme company he wants to know, is it true she ipaid $1,000,000 a month? and i said, well actually i think and the drivers face fell. rb already a global didn't it kind of propel her her career from that point on? isn't that a wonderful story? because how many journalists

have experiences to that? and, you know,did was walter cronkite. so walter cronkite was, of course, the leading anchor of the day and a figure of unquestioned authority. and someone who viewed barbara walters with a little bit of skepticism about whether she was a ret. and they were both trying to cover the groundbreaking things that were middle east, a groundbreaking trip of anwar sadat of it was barbara walters and her ability to cultivate relations with world leaders months earlier in 1977 enabled her to get the with both the egyptian president and the israeli prime minister and this was the interview that not only s comeback from her experience as as a co-ancho also walter cronkite, whi both of them knew. yeah. and that interview spl it was not only a moment for journalism, it changed foreign policy and middle east policy at a really, really d time. so how did barbara walters make that leap not only from from nbc's today show, but very high

profile and then into the anchor chair and then intinterviewing a mega operation? did she do it all by herself? did she have allies? i mean, how did she survive that? she had runar, the legendary sports before that. and roonethe news division at a time that both together. and it was clear this was sustainable pairing of two anchors. and roone arledge made it was on barbara's side, that even though' being anchor was really not barbara strength. but despite that he saw there were many harry reasoner. there was only one barbara so harry reasoner saw the writing on the wall, went back nd barbara walters did not lose her anchor title. but roone arledge redefined how the evening news was going to work with where three guys working in different and barbara is still technically an anchor, but gradually she went back to what she did interview. she didn't she didn'ti think you'd

say edward r murrow did that. defined and reshaped it and came to dominate that genre. yeah absolutely totally true. the today show experience, where she was clearly always told about second fiddle or third fiddle, or ithe later reaching out to a politicians and national leaders but really broadened her access to other figures. so here's a life lesson om which is life gives you lemons, make lemonade. here's how shd that. she had been on the today show when the host was hugh downs who was very supportive, one of the very few ment air who supported barbara walters in her ambition and later in life and supported her again. exactly. so hughe rule of men who were not welcoming barbarad was replaced by frank mcgee, who was a serious newsman who had great regard for women journalists. and he set a rule that when were doing an interviewether on the nbc set on the today show

set, barbara speak until he had asked the now, can you imagine. so she would sit there for the first three questions, waiting her time until it was her turn and she was allowedhing that would happen in an iranian taxicab. right. and directions from a woman. so what barbara walters did was interviews outside the not remote from washington not on the nbc set, but in offices withery many interviews. and this became, of course her achievement and this ability to do interviews with people in other places, not sitting in an interview like this one. and that was the result of interview and was interviewing someone in their home, she could first question and the second question and the third question and all the others. ask or take a minute to look the kienvironment that the nation was experiencing during this nshe came to abc news and the time that she left

the anchor developed this other this new persona role. i had joined tail of 74, and all throughl the way up the 1980 elections. was being torn apart vietnam war, which was draggingime in which watergate had still left itssting and the kind of chaos. very news heavy down, very difficult time. and you add to that the fact not were not as evident, were not think the world that she went into, especially for womenmuch much different than it is today. you one reason of the book, the life and times of so different from today's e it's ancient history. it's couple of decades ago. and yet, such tumultuous for women in this country. i in so many ways, our nation was undergoing upheavals.

and she was she swimming in those waters. you know, she was not. barbara walters lived a feminist life, but she didn't espouse a feminist agenda. she was very focused on a path for herself and in doing that she cut a path forike myself, to follow. she made things easier for us by doing what she did. but sheretty focused on her own career. and i'm just i'm so it's so in were at abc just before she was. do remembe i. and it's a funny little story. i actually the first time i met her, gerald ford was the brand new presidentept in not elected. but after. and that's when i arrived. nixon left on the south lawn. i came in on the north lawn, and we were in china with gerald ford. and there was a day when some he sat in the hotel waiting for for the phone call to go see but i went with betty ford to all these, you the seven schools. we went to the great wall of china. and barbara also cam along on these trips and we were in a

museum and those of e house know kind of how to tell principal and how to get in close. of around and looked athing of the museum she went to the car with her camera crew. but we stood at the doorway of the museum. and we got a great interview with her. and ihought, yeah, she's a today. she was today showt. and it shows that doing, you know, news reporting cut forward to she has arrived at the abc newsmeet everybody and happened to be up on the executive tope ladies room and she came in years later came out and she she she came outany towels. can't afford t'm not going to say that millionlar salary is cut our towel allotment, bow, she had she had struggles every step those especially those early months and what did just one i realize you're interviewing me, but just one more question. so yf the white house reporters. and here comes this bigfoot

barbara. what did the white house press corps think of her? she didn't come to the white house and. hang with us in the press briefing room. she was a especially during that time where she got the sadat begin. all that was done, obviously away, from the white house.e travel wild with her, she was just she was that that new year's eve in tehran at midnight, they brought the travel pool. me and couple of other reporters up elegant ballroom of the the avalon palace. they opened the doors and there was president carter mrs. carter shah of iran, king hussein of jordan. and they justll said, happy new year toast and champagne and everything. and i said, mr're going to go to egypt tomorrow to see president sadat. why is that? he went one. barbara wasn't there and some the other bigwigs had been invited to the they were off dancing somewhere and indeed, a few minutes later, we went back the president's secret service agent, -- kiser, came and gott needs to see you. i came back upstairs and the

president saidhe secretary state just told me, yes, sadat at aswan. so sometimes, you know, being in right place at the right time, always kind of an aura, a part from the working stiffs at the white house. well, that's an example of good sourcing when you know where the president's going to go the next. and he doesn't. move to what the part of the barbara years at abc news i knew the best not have designed more morect protagonists than barbara walters and diane sawyer. i mean that's the stuff ichols could a movie out of that. mike nichols who was dianeyes roone arledge, who had been barbara's protect her and who was barbara's most important person, professional been courting diane sawyer to cbs, courting her for close to a year. and she finally agreed to come

over. and only then did barbara hear about it. and she saw this as a betrayal that hiring would be directly in competition for the big interviews that were her signature. and, you know, in other, diane sawyer pushed, everybody for barbara walters. barbaraanomaly. but diane sawyer spoke very gracious gracefully. barbara walters didn't think she was beautiful. well, what? diane sawyer is one of the most in. american television news. barbara walters had had to scrap and struggle every step of the wa much easier path to getting to this job of her own interview show on abc diane, who i interviewed for the book was taken aback by the ferocity of the rivalry that barbara greeted her with. whats and again i was white house in washington i was not in new when when the two of them competed to try to get th newsmaker interviews. but i do remember didn't see it as it clinton was president.

united states. and as people may know, the white interview not to the white house reporters, but to the big anchor abc sees turn what decreed roone arledge the head of the news divisionwas turn bill clinton interview, which wasn't guaranteed, but they thought entily possible. that it was supposed to go to diane and talk about ignoring a rule. ba walters went around the system, lobbied mike mccurry, the press secretary, and others explain not only why shet the interview, but why diane sawyer should not and the abc washington bureau chief robin sproul been much involved in listen tody it is diane's turn. diane is going to get this interview if we from white house from the press secretary who said, you're ginterview and we've decided it's going to. barbara. so robin understood that this ome c internal

consternation. so she calls, roone arledge, and good news is we've got the interview. clinton the bad news is white house is giving it to barbara and he exploded in anger because it was the latest. it was the straw broke the terms barbara's rivalry with diane which had made d vne was complaining about. and roone always said of turn it down, tell them we won't take it. which is, as you know, unheard of, totally unheard. you don't turn down an interview with the president because. they won't give it chosen one, you or not? that's right. that's that's not that's not the way it works.and the washington bureau, you tried to talk to said this will become a story. this will not be kept quiet. this is the refusal now, the world will know it and it will be said, turn it down and hung up. now, robin sproul, who is a friend of mine, robin, tried to think about how to explain to the white house that abc was turning down this prime presidentialview.

she was still trying to figure that when roonestant called her back and said, have you done that thing that roone robin said, no. and theeverything will be okay. and theyinterview. whoa, whoa whoa. the timing, of cow was interesting. 1996. yeah. soyear and we did not know the name monica but that was already now when was a trying to steal diane's. oh real quickly, barbara walters argument to mike mccurry, press secretary, was everybody where the president stands on issues but his character, can we trust him? and thate i mean, that that resonated. and ofrs eventually became an issue. well, she did have a ability to conceptualize what she ought to try to get interview. and that would include an interview with. and it was also a characteristic of her that she was people about policy.

she interviewed foreign policy leaders about foreign policy. but she was always interested in the human side of the the personality behind the newsmaker. conceptualized an approach to this interview that was very appealing to the white house because, in fact some americans didn't think bill clinton had and this would have been a chance for him to make that case. know one thing t story i had enormous internal repercussions i went through the archives, the roone arledge archives and is a pair though there at columbia. and then the in the archives there is this very long memo from barbara walters trying to explain, jane, how this happened, because she understood that sh thin ice as a result of this. this had cost her something and she had this long explanation about how it came about and how e couldn't have been blamed. and, of course, it was only natural that it was and by the way, other networks were interested in memo, this implicit tyou punish me for, i'll walk away. anso no

professional repercussions, but i could tell you th incident. all those involved remembered very clearly. letter of a three page letter of apology. there was noletter. did diana ever try to steal a barbara well, now, diane sawyer is also a very competitive person. szm's achieved in journalism without being that and there are those who say she gave as good as she got in the competition for interviews. but the really notorious stories liy about barbara. yeah, not not. i want take a little bit more look at barbara but barbara gifts of this bookt much more complete picture of can we start shaped her. yeah. her family, her daughter. so i think so much about barbara walters was shaped by lew walters, who was one of the leading impresarios of his generation creator of the famous latin quar started in boston, then opened in miami and then finally nightclub,nightclub,

and finally in new york. it took the biggest acts there were in the country destinations in new york when luluof it in the walters was a guy who touch and wonderful understanding ofwanted that was an asset that she inherited from also a gambler and he would make $1,000,000 and gamble it away playing gin rummy. literally gambling it away. literally gamble it. he make $1,000,000 with the latin quarter and then decide he wanted to open a new nightclub and it flop, he would be bankrupt and it finally, i think the pivot i think a pivot point in barbara walters lif was 28 years old. she was pretty you know, she had gotten out of college, out of exactly on a career path. she had gottenst gotten divorced. she had gone to alabama for a dubious legality. but they were back new york city and was staying with a school friend that her apartment when her father attempted suicide, when he came home from his new nightclub, was clearly

about to fold after just a few weeks, took all the sleeping pills in thend was found by his wife, the morning and his ambulance. his wifebarbara came over to the hotel. it wase. rbara rode in the ambulance to the hospital, then stayed with her, and later she said the thing that she really in a flash was financial and emotional support for her now fell on her. her father was suicidal. her mother had always dissatisfied. she had an older sistedevelopment disabled and to cash, she was going to be responsible for paying for their expense. the head of the family, she of the family and that propelled her with the kind of drive the incredible professionally that she of. lack of a nose, no such acc sacrificed what might have beenication in pursuit of fame and fortune. she was twice more,

three times, married, thre adopted child, a newborn daughter. she none of the marriages lasted. shdaughter for a time, although they eventually reconciled and had she had good friends. she had some good friends. but everyone life, her husband's, her daughter, her friends, that when push came to shove, her work would come before they diwhy did she get married? i mean, if this was not something that was really, you know family oriented, something really drove her. were marriages? so she i think there were, o, societal expectations that you got married, that you weren't maybe succcomplete as a woman if you weren't married and had children. i thin married. and i think she liked the idea of having children. it's reality that tripped her up, you know because the reality of having now, is you've got to put them first. some of the day, morning, noon and night. but there are times when your children come first, even if it's going to cost you something in your career. and there are times in a marriage, too, that you've got

to make that a priority. and for her, that was simply impossible to do. she once told aference, virginia, what was have a career, a great, marriage and a great mother were. those are the three things that. chilyes. that you could maybe maybe could get two out of three, but you never you never get all three. you know, she's there. she was getting aachievement award in los angeles and she she si find quite astounding. she said in speaking about being honored for her lifetime of achievement. shsaid children and they grow up and they move away. but all this, your fame, your fortune that lasts forever. an course, the opposite of thethat many people have come to which that on your deathbed, you n office more the old barbara bush line. youwin more, one more trial. it's to be with and isn't that interesting? because that was her that continued to be barbara walters of focus too that it was not

family. it was what you had done in public as your own record and your own achievements that would sustain you not only what you had done, what you had done yesterday, what you had done a decade ago. okay, that's fine. but what have you done yesterday? what are youwhen she would we finally retired from the eighties and one of the womenwish? thinking she would say, i wish learn to play the piano or travel to theished or whatever. and she i want more time, meaning more time on the air. yeah. you know fascinate let me aska little bit about susan page and how you came to not only journalism. you and i have covered politics and, presidents together for i. when when did you come to wa so i covered the 1980 presidential campaign for newsdaythen went on the white house. and you were, of course, already a very well-established figure en there for a couple of years, and 1980 was aershed

year. can you imagine a candidate for president not incumbent who was up for, but s tes and then 49 states and hisction. the it was a fascinating time to be. but how did you in the first place? so i you know, i likedournalists i worked on high school paper and kansas. and but i but ied really and this sounds possibly ridiculous now, but i was very serious about playing the oboe. i played the oboe since i was in the third grade, and i went to music camp at the university ofkansas in the summers. and i played in the state youth orchestra. and i really i really loved the oboe and i loved classical music and performing in small and orchestras and also and in smaller and so it was at the time very hard decision to make. and it was impossible for me to envision doing both things urnalist. and in the end, journalism won out. no. as barbara walters would say, no regrets. good. but i went then to northwest university to the medill of

journalism. i got a master's'columbia. i went to work for news 50. they brought me to washington and put me on the white house. the national politics, andhen some years later, i moved to usa today. so at and at usa today, which was begun right after 80, remember, 1980 was the beginning of putting together today journalism. i must say that during the yea white house in 1970, late 74, newspapers dominate the white house press corps and the national of what was news. by the time we got into the and it was more the the charts and epigraphs on the front page of the colorful usa today and itas cable news and network news that made a real difference. and now we have the newslandscape that has just exploded. there are so many ways people ways they find their news, and many of them do not involve broadcast networks or newspapers. this?z.y is a world in which we have had to adjust. but it it it rea is.

so you are in washington and you are busy. you are the editor of the usa today. washington bureau chief. and you havebook or three. that? so i like to say i no longer do anything. i don't like doing, which is which is a gto live. and i very much like being mix for usa today, but i also have it's writing these these three books have has it's belearning a new muscle to use. it's different kind research you know, you spend two years doing research. it's different an when you're doing a story and you have 2 hours or two days to do research. it's a different kind of writing, this long form writing. so it's such fun to figure out how to do what about let me see. i want to go back tora walters a little bit onb2

longer than things that we would do for normal news coverage. e get such things as thel castro in so she spent two years trying to get annterview with fidel castro. she started it when she was at nbc's today show. g on it when she went to abc. and it was the first really big she got that she landed after she had gabc. it was in this periode in 1977 when she was feeling so 't get with the passage of time and the release of historical documents we know she did not get this interview just because she finally wore down the cubans and fidel castro. she got it because there was a secret behind the scort between the nixon white house and then the ford white house to normalize relations, to try to cuba. it didn't end up going so well. but th was an effort to do that in this interview this interview that they gave barbara walters, was part of an effort by the cubans to present a different side of fidel castro. this is not something barbara walters knew at the time, nor have cared why she got the interview. she only that that she got the 's the most wonderful

interview. he said they go on a boat across the bay of pigs. it's not even an interview. it's a whole life, you know, a day in the life of fidel. it became a one hour special. they cross the bay of pigs in a boat and fidel likes to spearfish there. and he drives seat across the mountains to go to this mountain ere he gives her his gun, the hold aloft ash streams so his gun doesn't get wet and they end up with whole roasted pig and wine from argentina. and, you know, it sparked all these they were more than friends, which sheen that had the kind of connectionwith, the people she interviewed with powerfulcontroversial ones. she could forge a conneion that made her interviews crackle. it was questions that she chose to ask wasn't art form for her. she was fearless. she went to interview vladimir

the first interview that he gave to a western journalist after very interview and a very ir putin, not someone with whom she had a spark like she did with fidel castro to castro and who her practice w questions on three by five cards andge them and figure them out. and then to finally have them typed on five by seven cards. and that was an interview with was the questions she wanted to ask wanted to ask. vladimir putin the card because she was worried that service would be doing su might see the card might come in and search her room out what the questions were. she didn't want vladimiron beforehand and she was worried. she asked it was worried he would stand up and walk out. so she she says, i have one final question. someone killed? now, former kgb chief. we are quite people killed in recent years he says, completely impassive

yet. and that was the end of the interview form. it it it really the what happened to walters when she moved into the time wherehe put together the tv show the daytime television, chatty what was the reaction to that and why did sheand bill getting her producer really believe that was something they could move forward with? well, producer, who i interviewed several times for the book, has since passed away. he had always wanted to do a daytime show and barbara and he had talked about it for years. and barbara was interested in as well. and she always told bill that her daughter jackie was interested that talking her daughter, jackie, made her think, why interview show with women of different ages and because rather than have all women of the same point of view or women of all about the same, let's have young women, older women, a mix and have and have

these lively conversations like i have and so they abc had haddaytime slot 11:00 in the morning where a series of shows because were desperate, they were even. though the executives convinced it would work. and you know how theydn't think it would work. they refused to buy new set. made use the set that was left over from one of had failed. oh, for heaven's sake. new since then. and by the way, it succe expectation scenes with a group of four women sitting around a table. barbara walters was on the always, but often there. and one arledgera that this would undermine the serious reputation she had and barbara worried some about that but itbarbara said, for her to show something other you know, she was a pushy cookie. she her as someone who just pushed one question after another. you gave her a chance to show

the humor to about her personal life. she would dress up for the ows as marilyn monroe when they were doing a show in las vegas. she was carried in by four gladiators. so it was a side ofra walters no one had ever seen. and you know, and i think for peoplewalters, the view, not the general national shift and she does get they still do get on there. i remember barack obama, the t daytime and it was barack obama on the said, i wanted to do a show that michelle very, very true swi told me that the view was a making machine. and one thing to remember about barbara walters and another part of her legacy from her father, she kept a piece of that. kept she she was owner of powerwallso was to her great financial benefit as w women in broadcasting, get something

yose, don't just get paid a salary get a stake in it because that is where you can achieve real financial security. and i think that's a pattern in american networks. now, very often you'll see good morning america anchor has her own production. some male anchors have they've that that barbara walters and when she did this as with many things some in journalism were aghast.shhired a pr agency early on to get her name out there and was somhing serdidn't do. starting her own production u know maybe a little bit unseemly for a serious journalid now, as you say, it's something that's adopted. absolutely. you did the work on the barbara walters book, you had also done this for two other are very different women. but is there are they just kind of totally separate or a thread that runs. the three bo bush, nancy pelosi and

because i just kind of it i now see a pattern. but i sort of a pattern i fell into. you i was interested in barbara for my first book because i had covered her and i thought she was very consequential. had great misunderstanding about who she was. they thought she was thislovable grandmother when in fact she was a force to be reckoned with. and someone with strong views who had a big impact. it was just because it was someone i had covered or i thought was interesting. nineties. so i thought maybe she would talk to early. earlier in her life, which turned out did six interviews with her in the last six months of here,ood experience and it was so. so then i fo and nancy pelosi was the most powgovernment. and there was no good biography of her. so i set out to a biography about nancy pelosi's power. so that was my second my second book. and ththntial know, the thing that ties think they're all women of the silent generation. they're women who were born

before the secon before barbara friedan's book, the fem had been published. they were all of wereions of themselves and anyone else that th to worth a book. barbara bush, the daughter of famous, wealthy publisher. nancy pelosi, daughterore mayor, mayor and a political presence. and barbaraso the daughters of men of some consequence. but lou d'alesandro, the father of nan his sons might become mayor. it never occurred to him t daughter, his only daughter. it never occurred to nancy d'alesandro that she might. and nancy d'alesandro. nancy, nancy pelosi. under pelosi was 47. president. and barbara walters was 28 when she to get a career because i have to support my family. you owe are so there are threads that go to their women who ended up their lives in they never could have foreseen. at the time they were born. i remember a moment with barbara walters excuse barbara early in her

husband's hall at the kennedy center here in hundreds women, thousands of women came nt i said, of course you sacrificed your college education. you left smith college to marry george bush and can. and we came backstage and she turned and all but grabbed me by this nape of my neck. she said i'm never sacrificed anything. id to marry george bush. as he headed off toll three of those women had of it in them, in their era that kind bottled energy that that barbara walters really, really displayed. all made of steel and they allicant hurdles. and they to each of them is that they all made a differen is different. the world is different. for me personally, generally and in other ways. in ways that affl rld is different because barbara bush and nancy pelosi

walters were around. do you think that duringll be ever a woman president? oh yes, of course. absolutely. 100%. don't you? yes, i think. but but we're pretty. but, you know, i think about. you know, ameri decide we were to elect a black presidenbarack obama. and i think i think the same ap! say okay, it's time to elect a woman. amerwiica here's candidate who's a woman who sits a persfits all the criteria. i think in our lifetime. yeah. well i certainly hope so. when you wereoing research on barbara walters, were you able to obviously couldn't talk to her becausepicture. did she have helpful? so she at the time i started the barbaraalas inlth an i totally cogent and sometimes doing the book. i'm her long time agent, pr

representative cindy berger acted as a go between. i told her i was working on it. it's not an authorized book. she didn't officially cooperate but you know she didn't put up any new hurdles my way, which was all i really asked for. so when i called friends and family members and people, she had worked with in the barbara walters did not tell them not to talk to me. so thatd the door without her having to advocate for it. and not every single person talked to me. her daughter, jackie declined to talk to me. nterviews and is a very private person. but yes, i and i interviewed friends. i interviewed some of the women and men that she worked with like like bill gates getty richard wald, who was for a time the head of nbc abc and later abc andf barbeaa walters, who when walters decided she wanted to go see movie that came out that had a kind of following? she made -- wall take her there because she didn't want to go alone. i would hope she took somebody.

her and -- wald would be probably perfect escort. so i, i did about 150 interviews book and i looked in there weren't great archival ces, but there were some archives. i also looked at which were the barbara walters archives at the sarah at sarah lawrence e roone arledge archives and a few others. and i was going to ask athey searchable or they open, or do you have to havepermission to get in? so they're just at the beginning of being processed not very complete they like, you know, what you want towant to find this personal letter that they wrote. that is the thing that it's such a small. exactly. i couldn't find that. and i'm hoping now that she' passed away that perhaps she has made provisions to put more sarah lawrence. lawrence, i hope so. yeah. the of the one moment in the book it is 2010 and at abc and roone arledge is ident or is it david westin by now and they have they want to show team spirit and what do

they do. so is davidn. roone arledge these rivalries, not between diane sawyer and barbara walters, but between men and his white male journalists as well. this was part of the arledge method, but it was really cutthroat westin wanted to show that they were working was a famous picture that roone arledge had had abc, which included barbara portrait of several dozen, maybe six anchors of all sorts to be to show that they were all in this together. and he told them all to gray or black. so that they would look like a ost identical. why do youyeah. so they're all lined up. it's of course, you logistical of getting this done. everybody there. diane sawyer, george and in walks bar wearing a bright red saved space for her right in the and she goes in.

she her chair, she sits they take the see is all these others in muted. diane sawyer is wearing a white blouse, a black skirt and a red belt. and then this bright red figure in the middle who is pretty cl amazing. amazing.the at the there was no big funeral for walters. tim russert when he died was the kennedy. we went to carnegie hall. was it because why you think that was? so that was a great surprise to me. and i was in the middle of finishing up thethought, what a this will be wonderful for the book. i mean, what arvice. it did not it did not take cremated and given to her daughter, her very private, did notnderstanding is her daughter not want to have a big memorial se decided. my understanding is that you without only with her. with her close closest relative being there with their daughter being uncomfortable or not being

have one. you know, barbara went to a million of those. oh, and i spoke. and i can only imagine she would have reveled in being honored by all these friends and frenemies at a memorial service. didn't happen. and in fact, her burial was priv d so it wasn't announced. it wasn't pub research i had done that she had intended to be buried cemetery in miami, where her father and sure was buried there. but the cemetery refused to finally a researcher and who had t earth to do in-depth re find gravestone with no one's help, which she did. researcher did and it's a small grave her mother father and sister and it says no i had a great life. what susan. let me finish by asking if barbara walters in her nineties still active and around and if she said why, susan of course, i'll sit for an iew with you.

uld you ask barbara walters? good, and i'd want them i probably ask myself, what would barbarae had she was enormously skilled in sh that to the heart of the matter and that were she knew that the more words you had around a question, the be for someone to dodge it. so i think if i were going to ask her three questionher what's your best let's see if she says somethingpersonal. what's your regret? beets, but none of us have no regrets. and then i thiquestion i would ask perhaps would be, were you happy you that question of many of the people you interviewed. the said yes, she was happy. joy bahar, the co-host on the view ish. there's no question she she was very proud of what she did and she was proud of the money she she had. but almost everyone else i

talked to no, she was never happy. susan page.u. in. we are here tonight petraeus and lord roberts of