leah payne is an associate

professor of american religious■ history at portland seminary. she's also. 2022 to 2023 public fellow at public religion research k]institute. and her research has been supported by the louisville institute in the wabash center, teaching in theology and religion. hebo, gender pentecostal revivalism maki in y 20th century, won n r society fr book award paine's work and6 analyzing religion,■tolanpopulae washington post nbc news religion service and christianity today. she's also co-host of weird out religion, popular doesn't roll t

about christian remind everyone, please silence you leah a talk. we will have a question a session if you would then come welcoming you.ophone here, thank oops. oh, that's right. well i, i, i googled what you do at. an author meet and greet a bookstore. so what they said was, well google told me was you read an excerpt and then you fielded questis.so i will be reading ant for, you all. and then i l forward talking with you and seeing what what kinds of questions that this may bring up. so i'm going to start with the benning. cc and the industry of 14 year old david shields.

r nervous. oh. okay. the you go. there you go. oh, boy, this is me. i'me. mike, feel moment. i'm to go with it. thank you so much for telling me that because i was kind of questioning about the lab. so okay. all right. so i'm going to go go back. go back and just say i googled to do at a book event and reading an excerpt and then questions is what you do. and so what i'm here to do and thank you so much for being here. 14 year old david s was skull was about to play a big show in lexington, nebraska. skull crushers may not sound like an unusual name ford perh's not. unusual was that it was inspired by a passage in the bible romans

1620, the god of satan under yo. skull cr crush heck out of the devil that night. they're toolsbased lyrics screamed over distorted guitars. 's cool skater youth pastor played in the youth building of a southern baptist church by david's dad. we were absolutely, david recalled years but the small crowd of evangelicals cheered for more southern baptist churches. of the 2000s. we're known for being death metal tastemakers, but david and hisid not see their work as metal per through the power of music they were spreading the gospel in a performance that was p rock concert, part religious revival school crushers sought to entertain and to bring audiences

to christ our yelling unintelligible lyrics were suddenly holy work, he rememb because the lyrics were christian david in the unique. they were among thousands in thf of the 20th century performed on sanctuary three stages in youth rooms and basements, at mfestivl meetings, around, the nation, these executives, publicists, booking agents, radio deejays, journalists and many more, were part of the thriving industry of contemporary christian music, commonly called ccm. cc, encompassed many genres, and often sounded like mainstream, but what made it distinctive is that it was created by and for sold almost exclusively to evangelicals. ■qconsume by millions. ccm was the soundtrack of

evangelical conversions worship adolescence, marriage, child rearing and activism. few services, youth, all nighters sporting events, protests were complete without ccmom time school crushers took the stage. ho w ia precarious position once an abin dollar industry with culture power. by the early aughts the genr was in decline. this book analyzes contemporary stc as, an industry born from early 20th century southern white revivalist tim singing networks stokedand 1970s on the coast and fueled in the late 20th century by a vast network of evangelical media makers and marketers, booksellers, denominations congregations, parish, church organization, educational institutions,advocacy as contemc

grew enterprising conservative white protestants recognize that songs of revival were and are powerful portable vehicles for ideolo following pages trace how come produced music that served as a so■@nic shorthand fr white evangelical orthodoxy. prized for its capacity to disseminate evanli about. what it means to be christian and ccm songs often reflected and drove evangelical conversations pressing social and political like abortion, prayer in public schools or, teen■y the turn of the 20th cen. however, contemporary christian music was by many of the market forces and cultural norms that built even though the industry declined precipitously in theea.

however, the theological visions ambitions of cms leading music makers and the meditw them continue to shape evangelicalism abroad. contemporary christian served adults a yng children, to be sure. but the industry's core customers wereclass white ameri. marketers were certainly not alone in recognizing the buying teens, but evangelicals became convinced that teens were in a poetic, precarious state, which meant that ccm sales had cosmic importance for evangelical. the teen years were a must win battlefieldristian faith, the nation and even the mass media they recognized was an effective weapon. be employed in that fight and they set out to save■x young sos

and shape the nation throughhe pages. trace how these evangelical caregivers in the united states me to see christian spins on american popular music. even genres like dea metal as invaluable tools molding their socially spiritually andry grew, so did confidence in citizens to conform to nservative norms and strengthen nation. it hard to overstate the power of contemporary christian music late 20th century evangelical lifaste evangelicalism. it certainly was for me growing up inecostal pastor's ka working class town infather hady

it. allow. i'm editorializing here. but yes, he didn't and as a family we didn't the means ar in the middle class, suburban consumption patterns of ccm, the concerts, festivals, albums and r merchandise. but many young people around in t world of youth groups and christian music festivals. and almost everyone i knew had either heard an immigrant song ore action version of a carmen inps■ç college, i ws introduced to revivalist by rrhnso a conductor, vocal arranger and the foundation of what would become his vocalist debbie johnson expand my understanding of sacred music beyond the boundaries of the pentecostal praise and worship tunes of my

upbringing. he taught me toppreciate recognize west coast pop and jazz harmonies along with black spel standards. after i artist and moved to nashville,■ tennessee in 2001, when ccm at its pinnacle in terms of prosperity and cultural influence as a new nashville in, i und myself doing what a lot of peers with humanities degrees did, working at a coffee shop. two of my favorite customers were charlie and andy ashworth, whom i only knew as west coast splants. i discovered eventually that singer songwriter, jazz artist, pianist, producer and record label executive who had also written a really important book about ccm. charlie ended up offering me a job as assistant. and i worked at charlie and andy's legendary art house studio for sev years.

i didr old barista, the scope of charlie'sdid i grasp in the eary 2000 that i was bearing witness to a transformative moment in the music industry in gener par. eventually, i went to graduate at vanderbilvi school, became a religious historian, and i thought that my short, youthful stint in ccm was over. as i studied american religion, however, my perspective on ccm i began to regard contemporary christian music pemashan just qy evangelical entertainment. instead, i to see them concerts as sites where power is created and negotiated at ccma performances exerted influence over attendees by public conversions, stoking political action, and for social causes.

■iest selling ccm artists and audiences also evangelical ideals about gender sexual race, ethnicity and class. be womanly to straight, middle as

so question that guides this book is wh c one learn about the development evangelicalism by looking at ctemporary arie christian music, one of the largest, most profitable forms ofuced in the 20th century. i treat ccm charts as representing of a conversation among but not exclusively white about what kind of people they wanted to be, wh they wanted to create, what kind of actions they thought would honor god? to listen to that conversation, i analyzed the music of 20th century songbooks, early recordin a programs, tracked the top selling ccm ntemporary christian magazine and the billboard carefully to the top 25 ccm late 1970s to 2023 as the soundtrack of white evangelical culture.

contempt arie christian music carried in music and merchandise, decades of mucaconl identy and ideology because it was produced mostly by white evangelical men and marketed en masse to white evangelical consumption.youth pas for white evangelical children. it is also a large■i scale, multigenerational conversation about evangelical valuesconverst to be■ made. who ought to make it and? what messages it should include. reveal how evangelicals aim to their children to be idealistic. sons of the kingdom of god. and of course, the united businl activity,e trajectory of ccm als how thelogical innovations, evangelical identity and

ideology. the story of ccm is the of how white evangelicals to the marketplace for work in the world. while there were always notable within the industry regarded p blessing. the top selling artists and entertainers then reflect a consensus consumers about what teaching about god, the people of god and their place in public life. certain ideas thrived in part because they appeal to wteevang. other ideas because they could not be easily sold in this. the history of the ccmrts is a history of how consumers, their theologicalunofficially tr buyingwhy are evangelical denominations and published official treatises and position papers and public statements. and all the while, the people who constituted these

organizations purchased music that they came to believe represented true christianife charts represented rank and file whitesorts people evangelicals believed be credible messengers of the gospel. and the chartsisplayed. what sort of ideas about god, the world and the people of god weree theologies. sometimes these off the booksdel teaching. the market, consumers cllge and in some cases overturned the traditional institutional authority of their pastors congregations and denomination. because many white evangelicals viewed kim as a distillation of chri orthodoxy, a purveyor of godlyctivity, and a form of christian parenting. contemporary christian musicerys

industry. ijournalists, publishers, producers and, artist w businesh leaders, politicians and activists in and around the industry. not all wanted to be quoted. e 5 of those who willing were no longer heavily involved in the retired. others left of their own accord. fold because they had rejected some of the strict ccm. those who so understandable reasons. peop who work in evangelical and then publicly disav cal norms risk their livelihood along with their social, r familial networks. i'm profoundlyg to speak to me about the industry and the dense of o that constitute the commercial religion that is evangelicalism in the united states to capture theriousness s

listenership, i music, a survey in 2020. survey invited respondents to reflect on how. ccm. their favorite and least favorite and entertainers. how they participated in the industry. how may or may not have their identities? what people unfamiliar with contemporary christian music should know about it and? their formative memories that involved christian music. some wrote that ccm was a peripheral part of their young adulthood, but most claimed that ccm had shaped their lives profoundly, for better and for to somewhere between 50 soon overwhelmed. as20, and i should say now 2024, i have more than 1200 ccm listeners from more than a dozen

countries have pti the survey. they shared stories of joy and also stories of alienation, anged despair. through this book, i've included representative observations and comments from those listeners. indeed, there is book. it is the ccm audience, ccm listener, real and. the biographies of particular m material as they were used to sell music to consumerd serve models for christian living. those models and the people who sold them have been always overwhelmingly white and male like mainstream popular music. ccm is a male dominated business, both behind scenes and on the charts, where women occupied more than 20% of the top spots. the situation was even more stark when it came to race. nonwhite artists andentertainere than 10% of the top 25 albums sm

listeners, ccm singers amusiciak gospel music. hip hop and rap. non-core christian charts diversified in late 20th centy. the demographics of ccm artists remained remarkablli american as a whole. the ccm worldas segregated. that segregation goes back to thinqç'earliest days. ccm grew out of early 20th century wh revivalism. the networks of predominantly, ■can't meetings and bible colleges served as the tracks which ccm would travel the nation. many of these institutions desegregation well into the 20th century. the tastes buying habits of the consumers that were embedded in these networks along with the racial hierarchies embedded within and expressed through these habits, also allowed the industry to remain homogenous for decades.

this book starts, with those networst bks about contemporary christian music begin with the stories bands or begin the story of bands. the school crushers with the sounds of r begins with cms's roots in theearly 20th ce. much. all right. ank you. oh, thank you. this a tougher for for class. i to field. any questions you have or and should people come to this microphone over here, i■ gbravee microphone ove there. oh, o hi, please. yes, thank you.

thank. i wondering in your research, if you looked some of the festivals like cornerstone ichthys, which i know a l arod here probably went to a lot. kind of the effect thatd on ccm. that's a great question. so you you mentioned to music ih is right from right here in fascinating about this as ahink festival is that it is rooted in those early 20th century revivals right. it's a christian music festival that was essentially an version of a camp meeting, an old fashioned camp meeting, andis wr versions of of in 1970s and then rebe huge, hundrs of people would come to rimusic festivals and

the mainstream ones, the that had the the top charting artists were were festivals the creation festival but cornerstone iv interesting kind of quirky festival that represented, i think, ay report within evangelical circles. cornerstone festival were thatt may or may not conrm kind of strict boundary around what was music and and cornerstone it had a reputation for beingtaf big bands got theird go on to sr venues. but i, i do find that people who werean guess that you're going to know everything that i'm about to say rattles and stuff, but people

tooth and nailf music from record or five minute walk records, those kind of scalloped metal music cornerstone was was thering where people would get together and celebrate that those kind of edgier fos of music and yes that that's onat e in this book that there is convn there's always dissenting voices and rely people if you if you look at conversation about that see them talking about, well, who are we and who are we going to be? and mo importantly, what do we want for our children. and so cornerstone festival hosted bands and young kids who wouldo know very wild things like where weird colored hair earrings and tattoos things like that that were a pretty and evangelical

circles. so did you did you ever go to cost yes. my my youth pastorent one year fully. he went fully dressed like goth and was like chasing as they were driving their golf carts and down hugs t shirt and just gave out all the free hugs and it's definitely like just kind of reminisced back on that now since it's beat has even been in existence. mm hmm. just it was a wonderful festival. yes. and, you know, it's it's roots are in a a essentially like a christian hippie commune called jesus people usage of whose f or o who know which was the host of that festival. so it always had a hippie flair to it that other more mainstream festivals never, never had. and i think for, you know, i think a lot more people, a lot fewer people went to cornerstone, but a lot more people, re■umembof that.

then then, you know, those bigger festivals. so you so much. that's a great question. hey megan. hi, dr. park. hi, megan. megan is my student i'm so happy to see her. my question was, is there anywhere in your bookhere find or throughout your research where you found that maybe a event or, a historical event, a lot of musicians were trying to almost like make their lyrics about that or like send a message. maybe more subliminally toe back like maybe certain like worldly or secularsagethat they were against. oh, that's such a question. i love that question. yes. about studying this music is you can alepen on any big issue that mattered to evangelicals.

they were writing songs about that. ery first big social issue that i cover in this book is the issue o temperance. the prohibition movement was, el songs many of them, were written tpu revivalists talking all about thef booze and alcohol. and some of them are are in anyy subtle when you said, you know, are there subtle things. 's brew. you're welcome. but and a lot of them were aimed young people. so in the know the the idea of there being an adolescent period and teenager tna ness teenager would really as developed a lot these revivalists came to see those years as really critical. so there are temperance movement temperance hymnals aimed at young in particular. so it back that far but any big

events that that or any any event that i'm conservative white protestants as important is is usually reflected in. so if you fast forward even hundred years after those hymns were developed like the the columbine mass shooting was a gerary christian music about that event. is that it it represented the an anthat. so there weren't a ton of songs. fo example, that were arguing for regulation of guns, right? there were a lot of songs that interpreted those horrifying events as a form of christian martyrdom, because there were some evangelical teens who were tragically killed on that day and a lot of very popular contemporary christian music was

generated from that moment and used an opportunity to encourage evangelical yog evangelicals to live their faith very public ways. so i don't know if that helps answer your question, but there are there are so many examples. you know, any era cold war, there's a song about that, you know, the the 911, there were lots of songs about about what was happening. so, yeah, i, i listen■f to lot. i had an interesting era as as you can and i subjected my especially.t to my childre dr. paine you talked about white evangelicalism. yes. that's broad term. you know, kind of umbrella term. could you tal strata within angelidiffer■vent denominational groups, and how they wereved heme, how

they influenced. kim historically even up to the present day. thank you so much for that question. one of the most surprising d by analyzing arhat was as asa ki of generic f evangelicalism was actually three groups. so there were white baptist, specifically southern baptists. and the southern baptists really created the infrastructure that contemporary christian. so a lot of the parish church organized missions that were big,hat that were heavily involved in. ccm had southerntist roots. a lot of the activist organizations. so there were a lot of baptists conversation. and in fact, one of the biggest record labels of contemporary in contemry music was created from baylor university well-known baptist hub.

and so baptists and then holiness people. so i start the book with holiness revival books. so people like the nazarene teens and westlands and and then pentecostals and eventually charismatic. so pentecostals, people who are known for speaking in tongues andealing and stuff like that. and they're charismatic cousins who i define as that aren't necessarilym they wouldn't be pentecostal, but they do pentecostalou're like you couldu know, presbyterian speak in tongues. so thosearismatics end up becomg really important figures part beuse the you know, the book is titled god you. i start before rock, but rock is really important part of creating contemporary christian music and that is borne primarily southern black and ans communities. so those but what's fascinating

is over 100 years that rarely. it' unusual are every now and then there'd be a catholic and would notice you knoike,wow. okay, so and so is catholic or they'd be presbytery. of norm that that went into creating with wt's fascinating is that because the industry grew really quickly and it thred american it was just seen as the soundtrack of what it meant to be just generally evangelical. creating it were from a really, really specific commues lot of r favorite ideas and those ideas through music infiltrated other fo american. one kind of funny story about this, i've heard many versions of this story, but i was talking to a woman who was raised with a methodist mother umc mother catholic, and she went to a like

a baptist and one summer as a teen and was exposed all of a sudden to the world of contemporary christian music. and, you know, all a sudden just kind of plunged into thats terrified. she asked or she asked her mother, do you think that my dad is saved? happened to you? you know? she'd gone to a baptist camp and come back with contemporary christian music songs that made her think about her2i catholic d in a different kind of way. and i think that's a really striking example of how it's actually a small group of people, but they had a an outsized influence through, the power of this industry, because i don't know about you, but you it's one thing to intellectually process an idea, but it's another to sing it and to act it out. and that that really powerful influence, people. so, yes, thank you so much for thatll group of people and i thank you so

much for this research. thanyou. after. thank you. yeah. yeah. thank you. this is so wonderful. about a dozen, but like one at i'll ask is if joseph-beth have forced you to have a walk out songha when you're going, oh, that's great well you know god gave rock and roll to you is a song that, that was a secular, so-callein song that was covered by iconic then was , which that's the one that my two children like the most. and thencoby another band, two groups, bride in the drc. it' about for another one. so it might be that one. i think it might bekaks. well, yeah so the talking about ipind the influence, you know, it's a small but it's having this much bigger ine th just that group some i'm curious about the

impact on the academy because you have you know do you get into that much like like seeing collegesthese degrees and traind things like that for students coming in and even marketing for that and things. anhing there that you've seen or is in the book, the research. what a great question. okay. so yeah, how did contemporary one of the the main. one of the main develop networks for■ contemporary christian musc was christian colleges. so and by i mean the coalition of christian colleges and universities use that to many cu schools and many of thehe o who contributed the most were from either the holiness tradition. the pentecostal so they were from the get they were producing people who were making this, thi world fact. one of the earliest figures, the man, ralph carmichael, who went to is now

vanguard university and then went on to discover re d people who transcend people like andre crouch and the discips.so tse those universitie already those colleges were alre those those acts. buts instry grew, many of those colleges came to see an opportunity there. if there were so many people who wanted to be involved in it, they could create programing that would encourage that. and some them are based in nashville, which it's no surprise anyone who knows about contemporary christian music that the major hub is nashville, tennessee contemporary christian music and country have. a lot in common in terms of e world and that's no surprise why the industries are based the samehose schools are sort of natural to think of, you know, belmontusic and they have a just a big music industry program generally. but they they a lot of contemporary christian music, but other places, greenville college and stuff have produced

artists and then also business people who end up who have ended up going on to shape the business because i mean, i dmene from those communities, but also most businpeopleere from communities and they really saw what they were doing as. christian activism, the major distributor and hub of contemporary christian music was, the christian bookstore, and most of those were business people came. a lot of them came from those colleges. so and obviously i mentioned waco. baylor university was a major hub. they created word records, comes out of those networks. so yeah the christian colleges have always had a really see why there are a bunch of young iversities, you know college radio deejays are stillteki no's there. that's not unusual in mainscult.

but college is an exciting time. you have a lot of time on your have again. so thank you. so i've got a here. sure. in my teenage years, eighties, early nineties and grant was a eal and she was complicated though. mm and when i think about the only song of hers that i can remember, it's baby baby, which is not christian. so it seems like that complexity of movement, but also her crossover capacity and the gender element. you said women were were on times absent. to what do you see her legacy as her place he in discussion. oh that's a great question yes. if there'e tyou would have to know about to say that you knew about contemporary music, it would grant. she's the the undisputed queen of christian, and she's a really interesting figure. i write about her as part of her

legacy is some of her relatives generations earlier had been part of creatingso in many wayss participating in a family business. and then when she began her career, she was really influencedppie communities who created this music known as 19 late 1960s, e, and she put the the revivalist nashville communities and the folk music reay an emerging sense of polish and professionalism that would become contemporary music all together in one personnd she was upheld for decades as i mean, because she started when she was a teenager, she was regarded in many evangelical households as the ideal. shemarried she had children ands

a regular on evangelical media outlet. so television and magazines and there are these idyllic portraits of her with her with her children and her husband and. so when she in ely 1990s, she made what was an incredible leap into the mainstream had a mainstream hit that sold copies the song baby baby is one of them. every heartbeat is another one. and she was a bona fide pop star in that time. and it was days throughout her career was upheld as this example. and these are communities, if you know anything about the holiness community, th have very specific standards about modesty, especially for women anab you publicly present yourself. so throughout her career was

watched for did was her shirt low cut where she posing in too sexy of a waymé about having sex with her husband that was just you know there were many moments where she caused a scandal and along the way there werestore owners d take her product off the shelf. a lot of times they would eventually put it back because she was she had a very iplined public presence. but in the l she her husband, she and her and ine was one of the biggest of the decade. right. the disillusion of of amy grant's marriage. and there were many other male emusic artists who had been divorced. but her her also marriage of sandi patty, who was anothertar in contemporary christian music.

and her marriag w those the at e was just a of wr and public hand-wringing about ds this what does this mean that this person that we've put up on this longer these are theses a lot of i would say, a very mean spirited commentary about her a her. one of the things that i thought was so fascinating of the the people responded to the contemporary cis especially for women who were adolescents that time, her disappearance from the contemporary christian music world and, all of the conversation about who she was you know you couldn't have amy grant music church even really catchy songs like elsa die youall a sudden that was not appropriate to be in or angels just watching over me, you know you couldn't you couldn't of.

the young women that was a real loss. one one wrote to me, you know, they her away from me. you know, this this person who had been so meaningful in her life. but amy grant one. i mean, one of the things that i find so fascinating about looking at the theological developmoficism as an industry is that you see how like industry it consolidates and homogenize is as i more more profitable and. time went by there you know originally were certain exatbout women in particular about sex and sexuality and their home. but as time went by, a lot of howe artists started to putfinn evangelicals should live their sexual ethic out. so in the earlyay it s very common for female

contemporary christian music artists, in particular to have songs about remaining pure their wedding night, you know, not not having outside of of marriage but then as the grew people started developing kind of riffing on that point. so by the time you get to the late 1990s, it was no don't sexe marriage don't even date develot contemporary christian music don't even think about it right don't hold hands don't any of that stuff. the development of contemporary ch illustrates growth of this movement known as the purity m very concerned with regulating adolescent and their sexuality. and most of the evangelical organizations, including the true love waits organization, which was a southern baptist organization and viewed contemporary christian music. women, in particular, as ideal forso the 199e

rebecca saint james and jacki velasquez and out of with true s organization and would put on a concert and also people. you know sign these commitments abstinence pledges they were ll that said that they would not have sex the boundaries of heterosexual. and when you think about it's a really big challenge for creating pop music that has those messages because most a lot of pop music is not about abstinence atabout teens having. and so the challenge was was really in terms of using popular music toward those ends. but there were and i didn't even talk about groups really in was that that one question of

who are youngen they living out those values as contempo c artists was perpetual and it question.me i'm on a real learning curve. i've never listened to contemporary christian music much, e of a brahms, stravinsky person. so i'lear go. you seem to equate evangelical christian with, contemporary chrisan music is is there no a diverse city in practice or is there any progressive christian music or that outside of the realm of

em that's great question. so the first question, thank you so much for asking that is really and you know, it's kind of one of those if you know, you know,contemporary christian must was actually coined in the late 1970s by a a group of christians who they wereevivist christians on west coast in the late 20th century had a reallyraeriee with a kind of mystical hippie ized form christianity and. it comes out of a specific church that hosted a lot of those meetings and it was contemporary christian x was a newsletter that went out telling about what was happening with these hippie converts on the west coast known as but pretty soon the editors and the journalists who were christian acts really ized that

mostly peo were interested in the music that was coming out of that world. so they changed it to usic magazine. and so that's where that that the title comes from. the to your question is, was were there> other forms of christian music? absolutely in fact, one of the things that i tried book is how the the market niche of contemporary christian music created a pretty specific, pretty narrow rendition of what cotichriian music, but the american public al, predominantly christian, has never shown sustained themes in popular music. so you know, there's there have have even had veryci music. and also there are other music e black gospel music most of the f

contemporary christian music. it was very unusual for artists who in black gospel circles to chart there were very, very notable to that rule. but to your question, yes, there are many forms. of music?here progressive forms absolutely. one of the things that i look at in this who had popular music, progressive christian themes. they were not widely consumedytn music. so the always dissenting figures. i think a notable one who did have s contemporary music would be a figure named richhad a verye he had a kind of a constantly developing idea of what it meant to a christian. and he expressed those ideas through song and also through pretty strident commentary on the world of contemporary

christian music. so there were always figures the way one of the t enjoyed reading about the magazine contemporary christian music maga, were industry people talking about the logical, the lack ideological diversity in . the industry folks themselves expressed at basically why why is it there? there's one op ed in the magazine that said, why is it that people just assume that all contemporary christianusic artists are republican? why would we assume that why should we assume that we should not but the consumers themspurchased music n so there are there are my cornea haven for a lot of those ng vces and so there were smaller communities.

but the market itself supported a consistent outlook. thank you. thank you ■j hi there are people oh, thank autobiographically i was a baylor university college student during this christian music heyday. so history in this way u that. and so that's kind of the sum of the parts ofesti so while i was early 2000, it's like right there, you know one of the things that became big influential bands like■n cavemen call either these scenarios is the wedding of humanitarian aid organizations with these contemporary chian ps like. compassion international is suddenly showing up and being s,

but for $8 a month, here is, another child that needs. right, you know, and anyway, so i was just out of that is is kind of this question we've talked a whole lot about social action, but also sort of the the conforming into the homeings li. but humanitarian is like a service out there into the world. yes. andy thing or was this is this t another wave of how revival can appropriate into, like social action abroad? is it an american like if you know anything, this maybe this just a failure i don't know. no, no, no. it wasn't. kduch for that question. yes. of the things that if you revivt communities and the act of revival, of revival meeting is an eerie an and that is the moment if you've ever seen a billy graham crusade

or footage of a billy graham crusade, that is a moment w tald r,hich is a an exhortingan come forward and to do some act. a lot of an christian tradition becomes sanctified which meant to express the whole entire holiness of god. or if you come from the pentecostal tradition, it might be to come forward and all of a sudden receive baptism of the holy tongues. it's very exciting■enthat moment in a revival meeting, and if you think about conmpor■ñ coming of that tradition, then it i think it helpscontemporary music conct because a lot concerts includer call. there are very funny stories about who are especially know'a punk band, you know, i'm a punk

like then it's like, okay, i'm going to slow it down here for a minute and evebo but conservatid gecaactivists noted is that that moment in a rock, if someonisg to act after they've been moved by music, they will they will and so that altar call became a really prized moment, especially for evangelical aid organizations. so from the, you know the earliest days of when contemporaryic that term was coined organized partnered with contemporary christian music artists. it's expensive to go on the road, sowa beneficial relationship wherein the contempora altar and and solicit commitments toward providing that kind of aid. so one of the things i looked at is which kinds of aid thrived in that so things like in which kinds of activism.

activism thrived in that altar callpa that their people to participate indua so u know if you're going to i'm peri will sign up to take care of one child across the world. those organizations did really well because it conformed to the kind of evangelicalism figures like billy graham were promoting, which was a very individuisrelationship with jes. and then you can have a personal tion■eip across the world, one f the fascinatinthin is the early 2000, when a very well-known artist in mainstream circles, bono partnered or artists to debt relief on the african,a the artists, many of the artists themselves were one of the things that i talk about in the book though is how th congregation and the people

who participated in the the tradition struggled with understanding theng to say one child to another. it's otr thing to say this a policy like an international policy issue and to be a faithful you need to call your senator or, you know, pass piece of legislation. it didn't really fit the altar. call space as well. ■ artists kind of workarounds for example really d they created an entire organization providing clean blood and water, which was a way of■" providing aids relief. that was also escaped kind of thorny questions for many evangelicals about the aids crisis and wasn't to, you know, just a few years earlier, evangelicals were calling, you know, aids, the homosexual

disease or something like that so they weren't too far removed from. aids being a an of sexuality which back■x8óreally question about like what what were some of the themes that were really christian music so creative bands and artists fid out of providing aid that weresz more line with the were more easily commat space. but i think that really speaks to the complexity of of that moment. so thank you so much for that othery ok well thank you all so for coming i really appatthank you so much. thank you tank all of in the audience also for joining us to sign books, so she'll be at the table here's