what will be an email in conversation with the reverend jim wallace. he is the author of several bestselling books, including the new new york times best selling book, the false white gospel, rejecting christian nationalism, reclaiming true faith and redefining democracy. he is an american theologian, a writer a teacher, a political activist. he is the founder and editor of sojourners magazine. and most importantly, perhaps he has been a baseball coach for 22 years. welcome, reverend little league baseba coach. that is the most important thing. that is. position of choice, sir, in baseball? baseball, and they're their first baseman. they're hitters and first base. i played shortstop but couldn't hit the ball far as they both do. yusor have succeeded as an dad,

d say as a fantastic american and as a great chst who has lived a fascinating life. and i think that life and the wisdom is in this book and let me shamelessly shale this book't getting paid for this yet, bu it is a fantastic book and i appreciate you writing it. the want to discuss it. you're talking about christian nationalism. how would you, reverend, define christians nationalism in 2020 for america? great question. and i talk about it in the book as, white christian nationalism. the name spells the problem. first of all, ■we have this gospel of jesus, the most inviting, welcoming, inclusive message in the world that becomes white. so then the word christian. but it doesn't mean serve us and

saic means control and dominatin should be in charge. they should have preference. they should rule somehow and there's an old theology called dominionism. you know, this goey back. this isn't new that christians should be. and why chriia charge and a nationalist. i'm getting up in years now, but i wasn't there for the social jesus. but i have read abouts< and what do you told his followers? we go into all the world, all the world making disciples in every. serve for whatever i have demanded. so most of us would is about iconic biblical texts, particularly teachings of jesus. what did he say. what did he mean? and what does that right? no. and know in the book you i wenyc high school by the way. so i read the bible even though i'm aproud, too proud to learn . i got the highest grade every

semester. religious studies class and you're reading this book. i saw a lot of these passages, these beautiful passages that you brought forth that you are, in a way, reinterpreting, trying to take it away from white christianationalm. but i want to stick with christian nationalism specifically. you know why do you think it's a threat right now? and before you answer i want to mention this report february. i'm sure you know this report, february 2022, a report was committee for religious liberty and freedom from religious ch they said that christian nationalism was a, quote, major for the violent and failed insurrection. of january 6th. well, indeed i'm at georgetown and the archbishop desmond tutu, chair of faith and justice, he was a mentor of mine, a dear friend, and georgetown, the first imam as a chaplain in of any university. so we are a multi faith jesuit school. so i'm glad to

i would say when you mentioned january six, i think jesus suffered identity on june six. you had people who were carrying confederate flags, american flags, drove flags and some carrying jesus works that when these violent■awas storming the capitol and took the senate, they shouted jesus in their prayers. so to me, that's an abuse, a manipulation of false religion. and so a lot of people think the answer to the bad religion is no religion. i disagree. i the answer to bad religion which christian nationalism is is better for you good faith. and so what i'm trying to do in this book is, is, is rmerefreshs which do apply not just to people like my faith, but to --

muslims and people of goodwill. a lot of my. would call themselves the affiliated, none of the ove with the religious categories. they check that box. so they're the no any the nuns and not a secular movementthat'. it's not they do believe in god. most of the nuns believe in god or something bigger than themselves, but they don't affiliate with religion because of what we're doing and not to your saying and not say. so to me this iscritical momente aith, true faith to express itself and speak andwith those who i think are doing that as a person of faith like you, many in my community feel like the religion and, the prophets have been hijacked. that's the word that has often been used byxtmade jesus and prd

inidabuse for ideologies unitedf america, and especially in this book, you talk about white supremacy and how it's tied to christian nationalism. can explain the viewer how white supremacy functions with m in america right now. yeah. well, we have to go back to our beginnings and this doctrine of the discovery. it was called k to america and literallyted indigenous, almost literally to and then we kidnap africans to turn into a brutal chattel slave trade for frey. that was our beginnings, that what i call america's original sin is a sin and repentance from sin mean just feeling sorry or woke christian.

but it was turning around stop your dress from going in the wrong direction. direction. so i want to bring us back to the beginning before our beginnings, which was in the ter of the first book of genesis. there is this text i turn to you the$■ book and i love this text. so i imagine you and i are surround by political noise all the to listen. a lot of yoururrounded by noised they're very weary of it. and then the text is. then god said and god said, but be quiet. listen. then god said, here's what god says. let us create human god. that's all of us in our own image and our likeness the creation of all of us, humankind, god's children in god's image and likeness, the

foundation for all of our earthly talk about human rights, civil rights, and rights. so in that chapter, i apply genesis 12to voting rights, and i see anyvote or intimidatie or subversion of a vote because of skin color or any other reason is literally assault dayn the grip, on a moral day. and islam, judaism christianity all teach that. so let's go back to the beginning. the real, the real, the and how it undoes, undoes and needs to transform our beginnings as a nation. you know, in the book, like you mentioned,■o you you cite severl of these beautiful verses many of us know. and it's almost as juxtaposition between these verses and what many christians in america now believe. so let me give you an example. according to a prr i report that

was done in conjunction with brookings in 2023, white christians in america are, quote, notably more likely to ew immigrants as, quote, an invading force morthan any other religious groups, including 61% of white evangelicalis. 51% of white catholics and 46% of white mainline nonevent protestants. how do we reconci thaverse luke? 1025? well, the that treatment, that immigrants going on all over place, the othering immigrants is is÷uñ direct contrary to what the bible says. in particular, we'll go to conversion text. jesusthirsty i was a stranger. the word■ stranger immigrant. that's what the word stranger means. iwas in prison and and you

weren't there for me. you didn't me. it's a law. when did we see you? hungrysick prison as you turn te least of these, he says you turn to me. so how we treat immigrants and treat christ. and for luke, this is the wonderful good samaritan parable, which is known to a lot of your people, whether they're religious, not. and i love this. the story here's here here's a man who's beaten by the side of the road. his love, her and robbed. and there he is and all the jewish scholars tell us he's a --. and then his lawyer comes to jesus and says and i learn from my study of this text that the lawyer was, a washington lawyer who was a wash over. i know that tone of voice. right. he says, so what do i do when harry a light and jesus as well? you'll love the lord, your god with all your heart, soul, mind,

and then you love your neighbor as yourself and how you love your neighbor will test your love of god. so he says, well, who is my neighbor? oh, that's the most important question for a democracy. who is? my neighbor, jon meacham, the great the presiding officer: the senate will come to order. the clerk will read a communication to the senate. the clerk: washington, d.c., may 31, 2024.