being proximate to them begin to change my life story. and i had these to use a religious word, epiphany, revelations and realizationndes, we were janitors at detroit edison and he took me home, meet his parents. his father passed. his mom was too. and siblings and got to talking about the police. and she said, which is mom said, yeah, that's why i tell my children, you ever lost and can't find your way home. you see a policeman ducking under a stairwell high up in a building and when the policeman passes, fine, get up and find your way home on your own and when she said those words, another militant person, mom caring for her kids. my mothers to her five children screamed into my head, if you ever lost, can't find your way, i'll look.

a policeman. aend. he'll take you by the hand, bring you home, and i beginthat. here's this black family still waiting to be included and to be secure and save. and i learned it applied to everything else. truean to look at the structurally and my dad was an navy veteran, came back from the pacific. he was a mechanical engineer and a destroyer or he came home and all the guys like my dad got a loans for their first job, got a g.i. bill, which for education so education and housing make middle class. my government made our family middle class they use affirmative action program the nation's history no black sailors on his ship got fha g.i., no black guys anywhere got their if they had i wouldn't have been in an white

neighborhood but all white school and all white church is raci racially stretch. strategic, racialized to keep us from having proximity with each other. well, i was blessed. i went to the black church and just showed up and they took me in. oh, and answer my obvious white boyhose young black church that i met is now 95, and i was with them after that in los angeles. he was the dean fuller seminary and. he he's still an elder to me. and i met people all my life has always been changed by going to war. i was never]; supposed to be and meeting people i was never supposed to meet orends with. that's what changes. so i feel deeply grateful. i'm back to detroit again in two weeks in lansing and and all

over the state. but that's what we need. we need to have places, platforms and me. three of them are congregations, schools and sports. and i think that proximity, for example little league baseball coach. so i got these year old kids and we had some conversations after games practice about these things. so with the permission of the black players, as i said, you ow, to the white players, you know, your teammates hear black teammates and■8 classmates, they all have a talk with their mom or dad about the police, how to behave and presence, what to do, not what to do, not to do your hands, how to be careful and and so some of the black players, the talk they had with their parents, shared that with the white p we never had that talk. and their white liberal,

progressive parents. and you know, what's going but when we got finished with the talk, it's not true that these white players felt sometimes people say guilty, responsible and terrible about themselves no, there were they're -- at happening to their black teammates and classmates. and so i'm in touch with lots of , college or finished with college and they're students still do their work in systemic racism. and so this is systemic. it isn't personal iscn structur. and we need to confront these hat have this embedded in them and change them. and i think we i think we could do this in a way we've never done before. this battle for. de integrity of our faith in the next six months. you knowyou/a■n> mentioned racim and the name for that is white supremacy. and as you■> know, supremacy dis hard and it reinvented.

and in this cuen moment where we are struggling for democracy, white supremacy and some of these individuals, white christian nationalists, have been usingultural e issues to try to win over people of faith happening in my community withamerican christians, with latinos and specifically what they'relgbt. q and they're saying, listen, come to us, because at least we believe religious freedoms and look, we all dislike the same group and then they promote a conspiracy theories. and you're seeingm folks in th'e seeing them win over enough lgbt q and the woke are taking]j where. you might disagree with me. i think it's a divide and conquer. what do you recomith based communities communities color to not fall for the trap. well as you point out just to say lgbtq are all initials that

people who are beloved of god. let' start it, beloved of god. and no one can challenge the and whatever, whatever discussions we have have to recognize the dignity and the humanity of all those who are being othered by politics. and so to last question, white evangelicals and black evangelicals are very different. the word white evangelical, that phrase the problem with the is thes the phrase is an evangelical. it's white, not christian, but and black christians often helped teach m so how do challenge what you're saying doing their fear they're wanting to to deny e dignity people who are different than

they how we do that religiously and, theologically, not just politically. i don't think we're going to win this battle with politics by litself certainly not partizan politics.per questions of what kind of nation kind of?t to be? and i think it's it's things that people can do where they are. everybody who's listening here 't somewhere. people listen to.nd and so how do we do that? how do we want books full of stories about people doing ordinary people? and one of them is a mine is ony team has a father, a scottish is a presbyter in minister presbytery minister in rural l georgia and choir as isften patf

spouse in the choir and they practice before every and so here they are practicing one sunday morning then the choir at the end of the practice and she's not r bega just scared. hearing on the news. oh lord, please protect us from els of immigrants who are coming with to disease and drugs and rapists and criminals and protect our soldiers who fighting to protect us. and the pastor's says, stop, stop, stop. that's not true. and we don't lie in. that's not true. and we don't lie in church.but . and we shouldn't lie in church. now,he had authority stand up and say this isn't right. right. so how do we do do we use our time? merton hughes,yo jesuit, the cad

everything is about onships. and i think that's true. and so i'm saying let'sships. let's let's go home talk familyd and friends and in our congregations interfai. so we have this thing called face world united to save democracy face united to save ;tdemocracy black clergy were bt imams who joined? turn critical states where voters oppression is on the■w i call it lawyers and collars lawyers are there togs go well,s are there to provide a kind of authority in presence. and we teach people trained a thousand already a people can find out by going through united the saved democracy they canfind we' trained thousand called

chaplain already so farry availn de-escalation. how do we -econfrontation and pl violence b how d■make sure that people have the right to vote fairly equally so i want to put faith in the practice and not just talk about in these critical you know, the bible has two kinds of time. one is kronos. tick tock, tickher time the bibr kind time they call higher is ts time, changes events. for a long timeaie' now with th. thissnor you think this is a time where we decide what kind of people what cor nation, who we're going to be and who we as people of faith are going to be. and whether people of faith or

e they check none of the above with religion crusade y. most believe in god or something bigger than theyre and they want to. they're looking for authenticity and 's what we're looking, you know, speaking about winning over and relationships and trying to protect this thing called democracy it oftentimes happ ballot box. and you might disagree with me on this, but i have often told terrible when it comes to talking to religious communities people of faith. oftentimes some of their ambassadors and politicians ound, which then is taken by, i think, bad faith acts mascotk and ridicule religiouss told tht values, you can win over these communities and. ecause this election, i think you and i agree, is so instrumental to the future of, thisountry, the character of

this country, how would you recommend democrats specifically poo faith based communities that could be won er, but oftentimes they don't hear any faith based values or messaging frdemocrats. well, i will disagree. i agree strongly wit■■h thand 'y friends all thedid an earlier bd god's politics. the subtitlets it wrong. and the left doesn't get it, which is still true. and so there are democrat like chris --, senator chris --. freely.k but many don't. or are. and i run into i'll be blunt. icall secular fundamentalists. yeah, many of them most to religion per say, you know, and they they really don't want to talk about it. and they want to all religion been wrong so and that's a

mistake it's a fundamental you know i don't want either■;■ sido use religion and manipulate it for a■ó partizan cause but they should talk their very what motivates them and if faith is of what motivates them, democrats or republicans, they should talk about what it means. so have a conversation. and i've had conversations up on the hill. i remember when they put you these immigrants in in cages these and they put their kids e those kids and members on the hill republican and democrat people of faith were very appalled and concerned and didn't know what to do. and the republicans were afraid it was their president who was doing this. was invited into in the back of his white office of the senator with colleagues republican and democrat so small senator

sitting on the about our faith and there all were people w samaritan like we just sit that came a letter, a strong letter. was nine republican signed it, told president trump. then stop doing this stuff. it was policy that separates families. and so i think i'm not going to give up on faith or conceded to people who are just our liticians. movements have to decideho tca persuade, but also who they must defeat.ae ballot box, butokers, religion,l power brokers who just want 're going to do that by any means necessary. and i hopeconversation we have,d

to persuade people t defeated at box. you know, you rise of the nuns, right? the f be spiritual, but they don't want to be affiliated with religious groups or iacs and they see religion and religious as instruments of oppression. homophobia, misogyny and racism. andccding to the pew research center 2020 for it did this this data just cameo5 clasy themselves as, quote,entify as , 20% as agnostic, and 63% as, quote, nothing in most nuns said that they were actually raised to be religious and the majority were raised in christian households. what can you what message can you them? how can you sell that to them without selling it them that faith is a force of offers, hops

in times that seem utterly hopeless. should a preacher preach it so so let's talk about the i'm g bb quiz lasi'm with lot harvard law school and other students were there it's boston so here'. what's the fastest growing amere fastest growing is the nuns. those who check that that affiliation box and and and they're looking for somethit ant georgetown on the last d o is wn the semester will talk about the ■class and i'll invariably hear, you know, i was i don't want to start my throat. but that didn't could a force for good and some of them said, no, it's george jones

school. i've never heard about catholic al teaching before. i've never heard of a blac i w'm hearing and so i'm more op been. so this is going to be a time when aew generation they're watching us. they'red how we respond to the moral issues and values in an election like this. and i t know, they're paying attention to what we say and . and a lot of them want to be mobilized to help. we're going to send students toe banks banks about making sure get out to vote and have a ride to the polls and all that stuff. bee we want people vote. and we just learned that in ohio. 6000 voters were purged from

from from the rolls and turns out they're mostly black voters who were purged. now they would finally find in november that they're not registered when they thought they were went to vote. so now black churches in ohio are having on sundays nonpartisan want to make sure you know if registered or not so they find out in church if and grace's and mamas not and and so churches again it's not it's voterand we're having to repaire system and so i think is a time that our young people see us standing up and speaking out asr tradition word, from this movement, first tonight it is multiple multi-faith, multiracial and multi-generation

ofam time. so to me, that's the future, the hope. how can■ democracy in a of us belong? you know, you start your book with this quote from paul the sixth. you want peace, work for justice as we're speaking right now, multiracial across colleges --, muslims, black folks, white folks and nuns who want peace justice, palestine and who want a cease fire. being targeted. they're being harassed the police are being unleashed terrorists. you've through that as well. you stood for civil rights. you know, the protests against apartheid, the protests against the vietnam against the vietnam war. what advice do youts, these grog coalition of students right now who arst justice overwhelminglyt of more peaceful and th'g attac?

well, that's happening in georgetown, south, everywhere and in my class after october and brutality that we saw this all came in the gaza and the was evil onhappening in in my classes ipalestine. the women in my css. and so we we had time to to listen to other and, talk with each other and trust each otep sorrows on both sides that aren't c■ñneed and deep truths that aren't connected. so how do we stand up for those are ffering, particularly women and children, those who violence being committed, how do we how do wes? and then change policy?

we have to change policy in the and we can't support we can't pay for those big bombs that are killing children. can't do that. so how do wey back and stand for the values that we say shoulder are equallypalestinian or jewis. you that and make people know what we■' think? and we've got to change policies that are decades in the making have been for decades. how do we change how do how two peoples live in in palestine how do we how do we get behind that andupport the only way to find security is to find security. all sides, all those people, all children. and that's why we have to protest for and fight for. and you mentioned that in the

book you cite matthew verse nine will be called children ofor god. i don't think anywhere in the■y bible. it said, blessed to be the war. but correct me if i'm wrong, i went to reverend. yeah, well, i'm glad you keep by hat jesus doesn't. but i've done is some these conversations. jesus said, blessed are the peace lovers, right? no, no. oh, okay. blessed are the peace keepers. i said, well, we all love peace. we say, and we all want to keep the little, you know, peace keeping, which just supports an unjust goes, quote lesson are the peace makers designation foe called the children of which is extraordinary. no peacemakers isonfirm result that's what it means so a whole

young peoplere going into conflict resolution as a science. we need peaceke■$ep this seasone that' seen my life and people on the world, i know on both ses. so poor so that text we have a whole discussion of that in the false way is about what it means to be áypeacemakers right now in the middle all this. and if we are peacemakers, jesus says wonderfullywi called the children of god. i have five more minutes and i'm going to be as ambitious as i can and try to get in a couple of questions. i'm going to do a nerdy a nerdy religious question for you and to you unpack it, becauseaking r book, you also cite. matthew 2531 and jesus says that into two groups and they'll be judged the sheep's and the

gos, the sheep will be welcomed and praised for serving th024. reverend in america who are the sheep? who are the goats? well, jesus makes clear in that text was my conversion text. the young student back to christ the kicked out of my little church and 15 because hear jesus saying i call it that it was me text. i was hungry i was thirsty, i was naked, i was sick, i was a stranger. i was in prison. and all the people thought they see we know that was you. we would have at least formed a social action committee in our churches. but that text goes to the heart of things. jesus econo mix in that text turns politics upside down, and that's what i want to see. sot text to capitol hill to fight for a child taxinvalid right now.

we're in battle for that, which would end child poverty reduce it more than anything else it has during after the pandemic. the streets to policy. and i think that text rllsays is and princes are judged not for their gross product or thei military firepower, but how the poor and vulnerable are doing in their midst. that's test and that's what we have to by. so you're saying that billionaires should get more tax cuts, so- that's is that what you're saying? i think that's what you're saying. right. tax cuts for more billionaires and more and more profits. tax cuts, more billionaires whose the policy thatagain and y colleagues do andcredit for pood kids this is completely it's hypocrisy it's also so tax

credits for the rich and for the poor when these child tax credits and we're across the board have faith leaders called the circle of protection and we're rolling catholic bishops. the national association of evangelicals, all of us different different histories. but we're for a child tax credit because it's a right and it's it's consistent with matthew 25. and, you know, when that child tax credit passed, it just did a amazing job to reduce poverty in the wealthiest and most powerful h, which is the united states. 6%, almost half cut child half. and now we didn't provide it, didn't renew it. ■/and have to. we have to. we must. it's a faith issue for me and know it should be an issue of decency and. morality for most in the final 3 minutes that i have with you, you we talk about children right now and in this book, you said you wrote it for the next generation you've■ lived a wonderful life, an eventful.

and with your life, service and activism and social justice, in the final 3 minutes that we have, what advice, would you give this young generation the best advice thatouperiences? and what is a regret, them to repeat so they can be even more successful in this pursuit of justice and peace? that's a great question. the vocation of my and i serve the careers, you know, your assets, your gpa, your rising of the letter was sent. vocation is is it's your gifts. what's don't what do you feel deeply about? what's the good stuff what are you really good at that what you're really good at and the crying needs the world come to

education so we with all of that s book is dedicated to my son luke my son jack luke's new wife that's here and my students who i think are going to significantly change these things that we're taught we have to win this battle. ion can change things. and my my advice to is 'give to. it doesn't what we do. it doesn't if we vote because powers that be few cynicism and people withdraw so as don't try to engage this system has be transformed. absolutely which you go to see with democracy to transform. and so i have learned over the years when i have or my students have or activists have become cynical become cynical. wee hands of the status

quo. so we can't and so one of my students, when came to class, tyree, had just been killed the day before, a young black man and. she was a i feel so jaded. it keeps happening. always shootin a systems are so corrupt and and i said yeah but do you want to be known the jaded generation which is oh no no hope that's not okay let's fix this talk. let's fix this stu ageneration n do. i appreciate work. i appreciate your service. i appreciate your attempts to make and jesus a of a voice, a of peace and justice and. i appreciate this book, the false white gospel rejecting christian nationalism reclaim my true faith and re founding democracy. new york times best selling author reverend jim wallis. it was a pleasure indeed a

i1all right. phones. joining us today for the panel and the legacy of racism, antonia hylton, edwin raymond and jonathan haidt, the three rights. all