that are important to you. andon that experience lot in this last chapter of his politicalen he hn own party when neither side of the political aisle is happy with him for very long. of different in ways that are important to him. and ihalot. the book is romney a reckoning. our author is mckay cpiyou thank. ■ lozada is an opinion columnist at the new yorkand a r prize for criticism. he's the author of thinking a brief history of the trump era and the co-host of the weekly matter of opinion before

joining the times in 2022,17 years at our local the ci post. where he was the nonfiction book critic outlook editor national security editor, economics editor. previously he was the managing editor at foreign policy magazine. he studied economics and political science at the university of notre dame and did graduate studies in public at princeton university and journalism at columbia univtyif you're here today, we w that you're an avid book reader. in this tent, we know that you're an avid collector, a avid political junkie. so imagine if your job was to ■ó write it. i mean, that that's a job that we could all love. so he, carlos will be presenting the washington book how to read

politics and politicians. it is really a fabulous compilation of essays and reviews that really bring together disparate historical events and disparate and leaders, a political leaders and. it's really results in a really great literary guide to just ths that's happening and i really really that. moderator today is anotherchristopher cillizza,n and roll call, the washington post, a frequent panelist on, meet the press and an nbc he is also co-host of the tony another poll, washington favorite up the sports podcast and also has a political freelan

me, atlantic monthly, the washingtonian andk■z slate. so for all of us political, this should be a■weafabulous discussion. so, gentlemen, take it away. thank you. an you. hello, everyone. thank you all for g here. last year, i was in carlos's sp it was about 175 degrees out, so i'm thrilled that the weather, to be totally honest, this isit last year. so thank you all for being here. this■így is hard core. we appreciate you botht.politicd people like books. so we're going to talk about 's book, obviously but one of the things that carlos that really value is to take things that are in the news that writing and find an angle or something t interestino say that everyone isn't saying which to me is sort of coin the

realm stuff in politics. lots of peot something and be like, this happened today. very few people can tell you y.torical context make you say like i hadn't thought of that. carlos doe regularly. which brings me to christi. yeah, i know you didn't. that transition turn. so if you don't know, kristi noem is the as a potential vp for donald trump. she is someonem sure carlos will appreciate this comparison like book. and in her book and this■ind >k. yes, right. that's writes many things, but e thing th obviously is the killing of a 14 month year old puppy named cricket. now, you know, if you follow politics, you probably know this. but carlos wrote about this on i don't even know when anything

out anymore because even two opposed to just that little and he read the broad. so want you to just before we ts through that piece, talk about the dog situation, what you learned from it. because, again, i learned from carlos that i didn't learn from everyone else. go ahead. sure. this is great. so ind i were were were colleagues, close colleagues at the post. career i've ever gotten medo. but at one point. i remember all the good advice i've. ah, when i was thinking of like moving from editing to being a book critic, which dnchoice at the time. and he said, look, the trick to succeeding the washington post is to define your lane really narrowly and then exercise it really broadly. that was absolutely true. i was the nonfiction book of my little corner, just, you kw, my. but under that, i write about

anything. i could. all over other peopl■e'bei cove. i cover of, you know, history. and and war and the economy. under the heading of the nonfiction book critic. sonk so. okay, christina i was not planningread that. i not because you know, other than that there's a lot to read. and i figured if she becomes the ■ book. i did that with kamala harris, too. like i books. they were kind of the finalists. people thought,whichever one goi would read that person's book. i was otfor harris because her book is a lot shorter. and and so you. thank you, joe&c6en. but then suddenly i just see, you know, the news explodes, right. aboutou know it's two things it's the story of her shooting her dog and her goat and also this this meeting didn't have with with kim jong

un and. itverywh like broadcast every podcast news. kyron was dog. i was like, what? what is this? and so i thought like, now i have to read this. you know, i don't particularly want to read this, but what, what knew is that the book was, was focusing on just these two little stories. i think there's got to be sometcinthere. and and it on a on a flight, you know, undistracted, right. on a flight and i found a few things that were utterly fascinating to me. first, w could spend like the whole hour on christine and we will not. but she you know, the reason she ■tshot the dog, right? she said this was an unruly dog on trainable. i just had to put it down. but really, everything about that the events leading up, youf port cricket was really her fault right in her own telling.

so first she was having this a kind of hunt where they like they kind of bring al■l the pheasants to like one central place for like, ease, slaughter, you know, and and cricket, you know, who knew was kind of not well trained, dashed ahead, pheasant. the hunters were in range and like ruined hunt. embarrassed r. the reason she first -- at cric■rketsecembarrassed. right. second, she's driving. she's about to drive home and she's putting had lots of dogs, putting the various dogs in ack of the truck to know go back home. and she says that she realizes s'nel and she's like, you know what, i'm just going to stick leave right if cricket jumps out. good ride.well, she's driving b. you know, the house of this es cricket, lo and behold, jumps out and like murders all these chickens, you know, in the in the yard. right. and and so it was sort of her

own fault that cricket was loose, able to do this. but then you know she was angry at cricket is like, god, i hated dog. and so she decides to shoot cricket out of embarrassment and angerssness. frankly, something that was kind of her own fault. and there. she's like, you know, always hated goat to write that go. it's always been a problem. right? so. so she drags the goame gravel p. she had a scroll cricket and she she kills cricket. now the■■ context is vital. this story was right in the middle of a broader chapter she'd written about her ecisiveness in foreign policy and national security. right. and that to me was something that no one had kind of picked up on because i was just telliní std so she's telling the story to proveike how she makes decisions. right. and she's you know, she brings up rond reagan lot. you know, we have to kind of get

back to peace through with ronald, you know, ronald reagan. but it more reminded me of like george w bush like invades afghanistan. he's like and there's a rock. it's right there. you know, i'm going to ' that guy's always giving me trouble. and so i right at sort of the the notion thathis is how she proves her. for bona feet is about about her her decisiveness. and the last thing i'll say about it is that, you know, so much of it feels like audition kind of proving her devotion to donald trump andg a, the kind of thing that you have do this was many years ago. right. but sort of brag about in this book, as an example of how make decisions. that's■3 only in a world where e kindke faux tough guy vibe that everyone feels they have to project. you know is is is of the realm. so there's moments when she kind of gives a vibe of bipartu

know? but really more than anything, you know, the reason the story is there is is part of the kind of new a obligatory you faux tough guy rhetoric that. anyone who aspires to high officemp era kind of has bow down to. in the same way that katie britt's.ñ■k natural her either. but it's you know, it's something that people feel they have do. and there was a sense that due to fondness in this book that was very, very striking me. and that's why i'm glad i'm glad i read it. i'm glad that she kind of revealed in and no going back in this book. and wo commend you like what carlos wrote in that ok is chock full of i would say we were talking about this, we were texting.

you said this is the cut that norm piece is the kind of piece that would the book had come out like six months later. the known piece would be in it, right? yeah. ay i want to say two things. one, sorry, i'm looking at my watch because i want make be mindful of time. please your questions because i do want to leave te for that because i think that that's far interesting than i mean frankly the questions i have so we will4 ma,x leave time for it. okay. i have. so carlos is right that we were kind of imagining he talked to lots of people, not just me, but were kind of imagining like what carlos says, a content creator or as opposed to an like back when. and i will admit in the the best ideas deceptively simple. i did say you sul books. that was not the advice i gave him. yet reading is, you know, i ■ learn school in what is one of the most basic skills you have kind of, i guess i would call it sort of reading steroids. right. like you'veve defined a

career and obviously been rewarded. things by reading. how again, 'e me if someone came up to me and theyt, i'm going to do for a career, i'm going to read books. i'd be like, more power to you. that sounds wonderful. what? what jobs will you have to pay the■ mortgage? why? reading and explain sort of how you came to it and of how you approach it? because i don't think it's just like reading a book right. it's it's it's like i said, deptso talk broadly about your your process. sure. so i've been a journalist in washington for 25 years, but conference. i've never, like, chased a apitol hill, you know, like you see. raju. you know he's he's great at it by way. he's so good. it is a hard he thinks on his feet. there a great clip like a

two ago that he was in the middle of like doing a thing with tapper and suddenly some member of congress walks by. he's like jake wait a second. i'm going talk to that guy about this indictment. you know and he just like off the top of his head was able to do like it was masterful. can't do that st right. i've never covered like campaign rally. i d't like to meet secret sources in parking garages, you know? and so instead, this is what i do. you know, i read books. i've been an editor at the pos t like a total poser because i'd never been a i'm like editing great writers, teams of reporters, really talented people, and i'd never done it myself. so i figured around 2014, 2015, i was thinking, i've got to try byline on on something and. the longtime book critic at the post, who you may all remember, jonathan yardley, announced he was retiring and just, youbulb . you know, i it. like i was very of assiduous reader mysf.

on a freelance basis for the post and other places, and i of drawn to it, but i knew i wanted to do it in my ownwhat that became■ was s exercise that i often do where i either read everything one topic by different authors and tried to sort of just dive deep into them, you know, rummage around come up for air with holg up to the light. the first time i did twith cosb. when in the middle, like l the d saga and revelations about, bill sordid other life, i went and read all his sort of adorable, funny self-help books from the eighties. relationships and marriage and fatherhood and getting olderey e incredibly creepy, you know, he had like had vantage changes.

right. a slight shift in vantage point can be revolutionary. and and so i■yh it with cosby's books did it then when donald trump was suddenly candidate in 2015. and one of the very first essay that i wrote about trump is is in the washington ok. and remember i approached my editor, and i said, hey, should i what if just read a bunch of leading in the polls for nomination. say about him. and my editor said, you know, great ideas, marty great idea. but like but hurry up because this is not going to last, you long interest will last. but i mean,me thing, you know, a lot of us thoughthe same thing. i will justaside, one of my leae ingsbout the political media is on whatever day 2016 election was, november, whatever thday after run was like i told you. and i'm always like, no, you

't tell us. we all thought that, yes she anyway.@ yes, yeah. now. so, so that became the thing that i did. you know, i started, i started reading and because i realized all the battles of2u t tmped, be the white working class, you know, the immigration, identity, subgenre. and so i started reading, you know, just deeply in each of those areas that led to my firsg about the sort of the debates, the books. and it's funny, i was still workin times, that book, and thy gave it a really nice on the cover of the bd and it was joe klein and. even in a very favorable review, hee books about trump era politics was an act of transcendence, masochism. that's that's what people people think it's like to read political books. but i, iy i get a lot

out of the experience because i, i don't sort ofkeaways from ob'. like there's other people who do that and, and i'm glad they do because they kind of give me but i tried to look for just little things that are revelatory, someone's character about someone's politics■ and a what i have found is that even in these sorts of book oir, where politicians, you know, try sanitihe records and their beliefs and their lives. and they present the favorable r confirmable or light. they still end up revealing th news is stuff. but in those little things. it c bmething they say a little bit too often a line they refer to could s the acknowledgments section of a book acknowledgments sections of political memoirs are a goldmin of revelation. can you can you just briefly ju the marco rubio one

because that's like my favorite it's in it's in the book just because it's so telling so marco rubio wrote a book or published a book i don't know if you wrote it in in 2015 called american dreams all these politicians books, by the way, titles like american dreams the truths we hold, you know, subtitle, always my american journey. you know, but in the in the the acknowledgments of american ■cts off, you know, thanking a bunch of firste thinks by name i think are very noteworthy. of, he thanks my lord and jesus christ, who was willing to die for my sins, will give me eternal life. wonderful second p wise lawyer, bob barnett. righ i thought that was so perfect. right? i thought atexquisitely sort ofe outside gameu beat your

chest or your sweater vestpqbos. but you're like power broker sentence, you■wg#w,d he theologians in the crowd, it's like it's like pascal'liket case, believe in god here. it's like, believe god. like, ha lawyer, you know, on, on, on on tainer. but he's not alone in that. sometimes acknowledgments are book me dad the book about the the illness and death of his son, beau i was incredibly newsworthy, even though it came out years ago, right after the report by the the whole report by the special counsel looking into his use of classifiedine about he comes across as an elderly well-meaning man with a poor couldn't allegedly remember the year that beau died if you read the acknowledgments of promise

me dad the verfirst rah i'm going to i'll just paraphrase i don't have in my head he says like look this a very difficult period for me to revisit. and as such, some of my memories were foggy and i had people help ind of reconstruct the period and establish chronology d that seemed so understandable and relatable to me. any one of us of any age who has livedillness and death of a love knows that t m tricks on you. you don't want to remember certain things. you know did. my sister e i remember. i don't know. right. and and i st think of being so fiery and defensive about that moment. if had said something like that, that he had already written, you know, i would have ell. so i think acknowledging that section is like can tell you a lot. sometimes it's it can be know funny or it can be profound.

i want one thing so obviously i think you deeply than the average bear. i, i, i also one of the things i consistently struck by, and again,other for a really long td many the things that people like 'm like it. my idea it was carlos. his idea like to be honest, i guy. one thing that i'm always struck by with your work is it's not just about reading what's on the page, right?"f also asking questions about what's nott]= there, like the negative space and. can you■ just the one that stood out to me in the book and i remember when you wrote this at the time, i find a figure of coider. i'm still very interested in mike pence, like why he does what he does effectively. so you walk us through that again i think a people i'm always interested in like a wri' think like, okay, well here's

what they're present here's what they want me to read or think. and then like, w here that's just off camera that i'm kind of interested i yeah, no that's a that's a that's a good point that that last point in particular because you political books people often dismiss them as like oh that's just, you know, ghostwritten, right? why should i care? why should i believe this? but,utroga super propaganda tells you a about how perceived. right. and that tells you something a material not right. it also says something about wh of us. right? this what will appeal to certain audien in that sense, it can be super revelatory. so the the pence story, pence wrote a■wemoir. in 2020 to called so help me god an revisits january six quite a bit and youdnrvedly taka

victory lap about how he, you know, stood up the election knowhadn't but that's hard to gt into that but he he quotes donald.?b trump's video message when trump finally called on rioters to leave the and you trump kind of late in the afternoon or midw, put out s this, this video and he he quotes him■u and and he quotes him. he says, here's how pencquyou w. i know you're hurt because but we have to youave to gme now. we have to have peace. right. and and trump did say, right. that is that is accurate. but remember, looking at it and wondering like what what what was missing in that little you know, like what what else did he say? so thank god for looked up the o

middle of that of that sentence, of that paragraph that pence quotes, trump had said this was aandslide, that we won, it was stolen from us. everyone knows it,. right. but you have to go home now. we hto right. and so it was remarkable to me laying down his message for history, right whereid that day a day, where trump was not helping out, where people were calling pence, that pence was still covering right. by skipping overble portions of trump's video message. and like, that's all that i remember0 from book, even if i reviewed the whole thing, right? like that to me, like so muf me is captured in those three

little dots in that quote i totally agree i of course just rolled right over it. that's why you're you and not i want i want to get to your i do.n there's one other oh, a couple other things one that ian is i s people are like, oh carlos, like he'll politicians books. but i actually think one of the things that you do that is of most value and i would recommend to people if you have not read os, this piece about project 2025, which is the sort of conservative think tank effort to it, i would argue, to give donald trump some level of a blueprint for ideas what actually to do beyond winning youd because he read all 887 pages of it, carlos, these t theou know, entities produce that a lot of other people d' read including the january six

report, which i think is a huge value of time is spent on it, lots of investigative are spent on it. and don't want to say he reads it so that we don't have to. but i think it is good tof thro. oh, watchmen on the wall, right? this? can you talk about in particular and again i just think that this shows your approach and your uniqueness and your value to this political conversation. january six report. what you learned, but specifically, if you can touch on ttestimony, which i think ist so sort about how a ad. this similar to the ellipses story and i do i' been talking a lot about politicians books but i love i just kind of government reports to the 911 commission rt. report from the senate intelligence

committe january report and and one thing ru cassidy, the tg woman who worked in the trump white house, you know, very bravely step forward. and her testimony when a lot of other other people would not and she was close to trump that day on january six and was able to really tell you a story of what she saw and one thing that struck me in the report is where she trump, when trump was■mrz ellipse, outside the white house and and he was annoyed that they weren't letting all the people in right because they had the tetdetecto. right. and some people had different kinds of weapons and they wer'n to be near the president. right. and and he wants a bigger crowd always. and and so he saw millions of here watching this panel the the people say this was the this is the biggest scandal

er. rit. this is the best attended event at the gaithersburg book festival ever. people areaying people are many people that so then with tears in their eyes, so so hut'm you know something like get rid of the let my people in they're not here to hurt me right. and i remember when when i read linei imdihought where was stress of that sentence? they're not here to hurt me or they're not here toright. they? right. they're not here to hurt me. it's sort of benign, right? they're here me and support me. it could be, you know, anything else. they're not here to hurt me means. i'm here to hurt somebody else. right. and that's why, you know, even transcript can still be ambiguous, right?

so i you know, there's no video of this conversatn, but there's video of hutchinson's own testimony to the committee. so the when you see it, it's ight emphasis on theway she says more benign interpretat me. but the committee itself puts it to dknow, words written out nome, which is the more sort of insidious. and ultimately, i don't know it's the things people say, the thgs people omit, sometimes it's with or an italicized they c arf things that i try to on it's sur idiosync weeds. but, you know, once you sort of

pull that lens, itt of covers the world right. and and so that ambiguity can be frustrating to me as a journalist, but kind of delicious to me as sort of a a reader citizen observer. and i think that's justort of le why stand out? you know, i journalism is not necessary in meritocracy all the time, but carlos has succeeded because of that. and i will add, being a brilliant and beautiful writer, the book is really beautifully written. i know we don't sometimes people of rip and read skim through it it's beautifully i have a few more but i questions, i would lo take them. the one thing i will say is is gng to be on c-span. so they need to get microphone to■÷■ you. i can hear you, but we want the world to hear you. so wt until. the microphone comes to you, so go ahead. anyone like to ask a question.

i've actually■1ead your book a couple of weeks ago. thank you. and it's al excellent but your essays on barack obama. yeah are among the most extraordinary i'vecontext and 'e with the audience a little bit about your views about president obama. and i will add that i think that carlos as he's going talk about this, he knows this because i've told him this 100 times, but the piece he obama that is in the book is in my mind analysis sense of who he. go ahead, carlos. both. how's that for an intro? yeah that's ye. the. yeah, no pressure.

so lot of the a lot of there's a lue or sort of a benefit to reading a lot you start making kind of weird connections, different books right. oh that little anecdote here speaks that anecdote over there. and i remember reading a book, michael eric dyson, who teaches here at georgetown or used to at leasabouit was like obama and the black presidency and kind of what the presidency of . and i think he was talking about i can't remember what episode he was talking when he was jeremiah. i think it was it was it wasn't jeremiah wright was it was you know, it's it's i should i should look it up. but itsnprecipitating matters ln what he said. he said that obama often presents himself as a stand in for the experience ends and thee

was able to achieve what he was able to achieve, it necessaril meant that things were getting kind of better writ large. and when i read that, i remember, i, i sort of my books are just full of like to ofwritd like it's very messy. wife who like has great respect for the physical books is like■ treat my books. but i remember writingand in thg like, he this withote the parens fodder for a longer essay question, you know, and left it there. and i went on and finished reviewing this book■ then starto that and. what i realized is that obama, throughout his presidency, kind of used himself as a stand in for for his message, for his politics, for the country. you know, the if you remember his 2004, his famous 2004

convention speech for john. right. and no other country on is my story even impossible like my of symbolism of the obama presidency, you know, because of his background growing in indosia. could improve relationh the muslim world. right. becaus his background as a constitutional lawyer, you know, rule of law because he was such sort of an honorable person. you could count on him to make the decisions about drone strikes. right there was this kind of incessant personal ization of of the presidency in that moment, which is great if you kind of trust the guy and like the guy. but it's not great when. you're kind of handing that ov who is no less confidentof self-referentid you be referring to? and so and so, you know, it took piece.ear to wriha

i mean, i was reading, writing other things along way like the post wouldn't feel like spend. the year to write it. yeah, but, but, you know, and, and i, you, i spoke to some people who had covered obama. i just asked him about different aspects of, of his presincy.■ te through that lens, then it was just everywhere. i sort of saw, you know, i looked at all aspects of my presidency and i realized that, you know, there was that moment early on during during the transition when he was appong these hillary clinton or clinton administrationers. and people were like, where's the change you know, like you're it's it's just another and and he would say, no, i am the change. you know. and spe■ essay suggest that i'me this vociferous obama hater or i'm not i just i just wrote it at a time when a lot of the obamad they were all many of

them, unless they were super partizan against him, were were really kind of of in that. and piece called it the self-referential presidency of . and and that's the fit meve he'g that struck people in particular from the book. else has questions, sir? i i'm looking forward to reading your book thank you discussion here interesting and fascinating to me when i look around here, the demographics skills skews older and i'm just for our future of our country getting this kind of di message out. and i'll uselina, leveraging media. you know,j1 the how do you reach the tik-tok generation, the

snippetsinstagram? how does this connect and open up a dialog instead of the us versus them? how does it a discussion in here about mitt romney. i have zero interest in mittt io hear what else am i going to this biography about a political f connected at all. and and i'm wondering how, do you takebooks on? fascinating to me. if i shared it with my daughters and their twenties, they would not read it. i'm just going to be candid. but if there's a tick video or an■3 instagram, like i'm saying, like jeff jackson think is connected with a lot of beyond the the typicalg is able to connect. i'm wondering is there a way each out to others to share this intriguing, interesting

discussion here i'll revert to another cillizza piece of advice which is he told me once that i used to teach a journalism undergraduate to precisely, you know, a lot of a lot of young young students and brought chris to speak to them one time. know, have to be like like a las vegas buffet. right. you have want korean barbecue at 3 a.m., you can get korean barbecue 3 a.m. you want peruvian to eat at 3 a.m. you can get that at three. i mean, i sort of everything is there for you and and you want to be at as many of those buffet stations you can. i, i try to reach out audiences in different way was just speaking at dartmouth last week. in fact, i read christine romans light, come to boston and then on the shuttle to new hampshire and a bunch of the undergrads came up to me and

this? they knew me from my podcast, right? they knew me from matter of opinion. this weekly opinion podcast,itht and people should listen to me. yes, it's not just clo enough me. but he does it with three other ross cottle. the four of us sort of discussed the news of the and so that was to me, i'd never you know,for my book and for my great column. right. er right. and so i realized a different audie's a way to reach a different kind of audience. chris mentioned that i w■about s for the heritage foundation for term, and i wrote a column about it ddiscussion ab. i went on morning joe abo i essay about it and a new york about it, right? trying to like flood the zone, right. news.at u happ(qen t■@o ge

they were going to hear something about. thist e me time, you have to be who you are, right? like i'm not going to do a tick tock dance videos. i mean, i could they would be very bad, right? i can i feel comfortable, you know, doing, doing this. i try toess different kinds of audiences in different ways, but i also just have to be true to myself. i think what i'm what i'm most comfortable withs, is very old school is reading and writing. i think we have one more piece? oh, i am high. so i think we all know, people are very complex no matter how well known or not known, famous or infamous. so as you're doing a research and these words, have you felt that someple more consistently reinforce the character they want to be portrayed asreas you know their words are more reflective contradictions as and then how

do you ier question. i had that one i just do that that's also a journalistic reflex had it we that i thought of that question weeks ago. well i just you know i wrote tht years ago paragraph 18 of a story. yeah ben the old new york washington editor used to call it the the journalists like defensiveu know, like i had tha, you your question is that in some ways it in political career, you know, in which they're writing what they're writing. so. what was the name bob gat hesecretary under both george w bush and barack obama. he wrote a memoir and the nineties, i thinabous in, the ce

that. not so right? years later, end, his career an. he told you exactly what he thought of everyone. right. and exactlyhat his experience in washington had been. same guy, but one was written bn his career. another was written by a man at the end of his career, right. and and andies the difference in in those two books. i find memoirs for a second the closer is his time in office almost by the less interesting that book is going to be the removed from his time in office. fore or long after, or the better the book tends tofather. i think, is a fantasticknow. yes, obama compressed some

characters, played fast and loose with some stuff. still a beautiful book, audacity ■ hope. when he's, like, running for, you know. senator and running for president. i'm not a great boo!n■ig promis. you know, looking close to it, right? obama. i think it will. all his books will always suffer in comparison to his first one, whic is just a really wonderful book jimmy carter has maybe plug them, some memoirs, his white mg faith or something like . titles, not particularly good. you know, it's like right after presidency he's still too close to things. he's defensible. i think spends more time on things that don'tto seem to matr that much. you know, a book he wrote years later called an hour before

looking back his childhood growing up, his father's farm in georgia during the depression is amazing. you know, it's i recommend it 's like good for a politician's book. it is just good, you know. and so i think found that to be a pretty cstent eme among especially politicians at a very high level just, you know, that the closer they are, the material that they're writing about, the closer in time. the revelatory they often are. we have like a minute or two. and i want to take a point of personal privilege, because i've always wded s and what is your process of reading, right? how how do you go about it? ? i mean, most of us i probably read as a hobby. your work is. your job all day. yeah. so hc du an, you know, think that that's i but i've personally as i have the opportunity right now you've got me on tv and in fnt of

crowd. yeah. it's it's a terrible procs, nowe the way that i do it. and i can't stop g painful. so i read, unless i'm on deadline, like i have a day or i just got comey's memoir and i have like a d it and i usually e more time. and wt i do is i read each book that i'm going to three times. i first time i read it straight throughke that's the longest re. like i'm making notes, i'm stuff like going into the footnotes and finding things and then when i'm done with that, i set aside, come back to it. like after a day. this time i ask how long does that first read roughly usually takes on the book, you know, like write abook versus an 800 page. yeah, yeah but i mean, you know, th■ree da mread it carefully an, sometimes a week.

if it's like if ' a long the highlighter, you want it, you want it in the weeds. this in the weeds with a highlighter and. i read it again a little more quickly. kind spending most of my time on the that just since they're with my scribbles that clearly struck first time around. and i think like why was this to me like what's here i here and there and i read it again that d time this, timyou and i go throe highlighted and kind of around it, try to see and try to make connections between. that struck.t chunks othok i just put all of that in the file. quotes, questions, ideas, you know, and it usually breaks down to about a thousand words of material per hundred pages of a book. it's like a 300 page bo0 words . you know, an 800 page book might

have 8000 words in my file. and then i'd set the book aside. i never look at it again, and i slowly on that file as like my raw material for the review, and then i start looking among it's my own little mini version of the book. then i start looking. i do the same thing again and start like looking for connections. but those ideas i find like, here's a couple of themes that leap out at me. it's almost like i can't understand the it, right? but i've spent so much with it at that point that the actual writing doesn't take as long bee so but getting to that, going throuthre a pain.takes i hate it i'm in the middle of but then i have and i have those printouts and those ever about. and, and so then, you know, and i tell my editors like, are you done? i'm like, yeah, but i'm not done typing u n another couple of days. so it takes a long time, bu's t.

and so i think authors can about authors. i don't i don't write for. right. i write for readers and for myself. but i think authors who may not like i have to say about their book, at least the way i think about it is like that's fine.s't taken it seriously and haven't with the material because that's that the only way i can write the kind of pieces i write is by taking myself through that process. i just want to thank for being here, for writing the book. thank importantly, thank you all. book, book lovers really are a wonderful species i'm trying tok lovers. resultsuneven at this point. and i will lovers are book b■p if can helparank yg thank you so yeah.

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