back to the washington journal. our conversation the next 45 minutes is improving

presidential debates and joining us as the chiefch executive officer. what is open to debate and how did you come up with that name? >> it's the only nonpartisan nonprofit d completely d so it's a destination where you can always policy issues from multiple perspectives. last year we launched intelligence squared u.s. which many may recognize from npr where also we are a weekly program but we rebranded this to lean intoro toother side and we heard in the segment before there are so many issues that we need to come together and work together on versus having enough in that mentality so that is what to beingbeingopen to the debat is about. it's a mindset. >> it's a nonprofitso we are a philanthropy and

have major institutional support and grants. you've come up with recommendations for the presidential debates these are the recommendations one at a time, change moderator preparation yds. >> a few things. we discovered that the format of the debate that is often times having one or two journalists ask the candidates a lot os. it sort of resulted in the surface level responses a different kind of editorial frameworkrk that we would apply as architects and debate so that would come down to the wayndraised questions and we found there were a lot of gotcha for one side to expose one side say weaknesses so the moderatorrds for us involved changing the way that we think about framing the topics and the issues and also involving more of the issues

that voters care about not just journalists and the media estates. how do you recommend t moderators ask a question so that it is more open and not framed in a polital way. >> it's not leaving it open ended. it's freezing it so that it's more of a yes or no. are you for or against. what happens so frequently is they are able to change the subject or able to say i'm going to get to that in a second but first i want something i heard five minutes ago. so we never heard questions answered which is a lot of questions in the debatem for the precision point. give the moderator more power during the debate. >> that comes down to the mute button. that's one ofng talking about. havingvi a

happen and will make a big candidate continues to interrupt talk over or mumble during somebody else'sy remarks so being able to turn the microphone off at least kee the moderators. >> what about body language? be interrupting or talking but they may beera not show that reaction? >> that's okay. we encourage seeing how the other side is actually engaging. body language is a big part of that. i a rolling crossing arms, back. these are important reactions to. any recommendations on camera angles? >> having multiple angles, seeing the kind of eye contact

that they wou make so t direct eye contact between the ctwo sides because we want to be able to have a dialogue. you also recommend you change the dete format. what did you mean by this? >> we design our debates around the oxford style format that starts with a central question that they are q answering yes or given uninterrupted time to deliver their remarks and lay out their arguments then the moderator comes into explore the two sides in a cross-examination that goes pretty deep. we bring members of the media to ask questions as well. it's all and the efforts to learn, not to win. but ultimately it's an exchange

of ideas. each as a time for remarks and rebuttals but there is a vibrant back and forth. give us an example of this style how you started out and w might be the question. >> we have over 300 of these debates that are available for to ones should congress continue funding the war in ukraine, yes no. is islam anti-semitic, married or single, that is a little bit more open-ended. we used the debateo the yes or no questions and a formathere we look at a spectrum of opinions to get to some other ones so that kind of depends what we are going for as the debate produce complex question. last recommendationrete rules. concrete rules this study we

just conducted had some data points. over 70. of the rules we've already talked aboutngs we like is getting time back to a candidate ng if they are on bad behavior so penalizi and awarding time to the other side if they are constantly her there's too much crosstalk or it develops into a lot of attacks. for civility and respect and the highest profi the world. i want to show a moment from the presidential because you highlighted this in your report. we wl talk ab the other side. >> we can't look ourselves up in a basement. he has the ability to lock himself up. a lot of money someplace but he has this thing about living in a basement.

i am as the as the president couldn't do that. what because whateve led to two that may that may not have been the right one. this is where the moderator control comes in. if you watch some of our debates, the moderator is the most experienced moderator in america has a masterful way of being able to interrupt apps

when they've deflected or restated a question and say sorry to interrupt you but we nswer to the first question and here it is again so we g or no were a commitment to answering theout the basement saying who are you running ainst, these are definitely off-track and we found they lost ntrol and that is a good example of what happens when you lose control of conversation. >> here to talk about improving presidential debates of this 2024 campaign cycle the debate taking placece on thursday the chief executive officer we want to take your cnt thisalteat no audience no props or prewritten notes willt be

permitted. candidates must be on the ballot in enough states to reach the boats. on these rules what do you think is going to work and where do you think they should have addede more? >> it will be interesting to see what works here. it's going to come down to editorial framework andio questions asked but it's unique because there are no opening remarks so we are going right into having questions asked one minute responses 92nd rebuttals, 92nd b responses. it's going to be pretty rid wering what are very big complex questions. so i think in terms of these very quick 90 or 60 seconds it is hard to lay or to answer something complex and then to also have a thorough rebuttals so it will be interesting to see

how the candidate and the focus ofir responses. it yielded better questions and those were from audience, those were questions from average americans so i would love to knoww if some of theormed by cnn listeners or c-spanf american ideas are going to be presented during the debate. >> they then reverse and speak to the opposition of that

position. do you understand what i'mgueeth saying? >> that happened in my fantasy fantasyland. i loved the idea seeing president biden and trump argue the other side that fascinating exercise. i don't see it ever happening but if they are able to host which they would be able to do and bring a lot of credibility to >> democratic color. >> caller: the republican paparty has been downgrading itself for 40 years nownd found in the obstruction lies

and tantrums. we are so divided, of the people don't want trump or biden but the fact is half voting against itself. >> so you're saying they have devolved because of the former president? to me it started with bush junior because he was like a little boy and it was obvious with any decision-making. >> when do believe the debates got off-track or has it not always been done properly

your book would argue? >> the last 20 years of the debates in the study which we titled correction and we found that it's not isolated to two you could call it the trump era that these are trendlines that have been steadily increasing especially for the last 12 years to 15 years and you can see the actual numbers we measured the amount of cro interruptions how many times they lost control and how many questions went on and served and ho was left in terms of policy issues to discuss. all of those had negative outcomes so it's not just a trump p this is something that is a national issue when you'reabout having a functioning democracy it is a conversation andon right now we are not able to have a dialogue about that so the role of debate is to eotvate b sides ideas t and give you an an opportunity tond start from a place of good faith and

good faith arguments because even calling candidates names is probably not a great place to start a conversation so that's why thewh debates are grounded in starting from a place of civility and respect and has to be implemented byganization and it's almost a skill we have to redevelop as country. >> riverview florida. paulen0o is there independent. >> good everybody. first i want to say i really y this conversation. i hope your organization does get to host the two things i would like to point out, one isquestions. they need to go away. just throw them out and the other point i admire that you brought up his hold their feet to the fire to answer the so many times moderators ask a really goo get an answer. that's all i have tnd like i said i do hope your organization does get to host

debate. >> i wish we coul questions but the fact isis those help drive the views and clicks and become the snippets that we see on social media the 15, 20, 32nd is often taken out of context so until t of media diet information diet changes i think we will see more of those. >> i just want to follow up on something you said earlier in th program. there've been so many poll of african-americans asking what's so important for you in the upcomingn and there's been a litany of at least 20 items that if you focus on theidates instead of like the said that get into the policy to address that particular issue and if you couldld make more common sense to what the

candidates are going to do not going to do, and i think that is an since i was a kid debates were all based on that hypothetical. here are the topics. >> i agree. we would love to see a deeper examination. they are very surface level questions designed to create some outrage andpark the that goes viral later on media. anbut we need a serving of vegetables sometimes and that is y focusing on key policy areas it's the economy healthcare, education,'s nat security. so i hope to see those issues come up as much aspreast we a a you a thetern tueated o a refresher, 2024

do you make of now theseting the debates and not commission? >> the commission on the presidential debate has a track record that led us to this moment where both parties declined to work with them again thisis year so i think that there is a role to having a third organization host the a fee carried by every news but media outlets have different key performance indicators foroping their work. c-span ande, open to debate where were driven by missions and rferent for major media so i think it's a slippery slope. e party organizer in the 70s and 60s and 70s up to the early 80s

and how the presidential debates evolved into however it never quite served the purpose it needed to because the debate requires a different kind of expertise to produce these oncery four years isn't going to yield a high quality product. rstanding how to navigate these very tricky andnd complex and smart people. i woulday to have the networks hosting and we will see what thursday. in a recent presidential debates discussed the impact on this cycle. >> the debates under the auspices of theus commission what country lose? from your perspective? >> i've always felt that if you

want to be president united states and/or vice president of the united states, you want to have to stand on the stage, answer questions for two number one to not only describe what you'r be doing if you arelected they are issues they are concerned within their evero you handle those particular problems whether it's the economyo forth. the other thing most people don't realize after 30 plus debates would have you what have you learned about the american people, and what i've learned is the american people want to like and their president. we've gone through two cycles now when we've had candidates on sides. so being able to see how they conduct themselves during the

debate whether theyreith their opponent respectfully and how they go forward. >> did the commission fulfill the described it was just to give a the candidates to stand up and articulate their ideas. yes they had anguess they had an opportunity to have aum for making their arguments. it talking point because there wasn't engagement between the two sot of follow-ups as we sold saw by 2020 the moderators lost control the fo yrmat a lot of crosstalk so fundamentally it became a space to candidates ideas it wasn't the debate. where did they go wrong? you said track agreed not to attend the

>> i would say there's been a lot of reasons i think the candidates decided not to work with then commission this year. it starts two years ago there was a lot of politics around this where the memberssly voted to stop working with the commission when they felt it was really biased against president trump and they refused to change the dates the debates were going to take place. so this was the earliest the presidential debate has ever happened since they've been televised in terms of the cycle. this is happening before the conventions have taken place. so changinghe t debates they re voted to pullout working withpull out workingwith of this commission. my understanding was the biden

administration believed they were not going to work with the debate and it's also interesting because it is biden the debate a challenge this time around. it was the president on social media challenging trump to a debate with his network andir their preferred of journalists using a format that they liked and no studio audience and it's anunits inevolution of debate. since this isn't really debate format it seems to be more of a press conference panel discussio >> is it a good idea that there is no audience? townhall format did have better i said that was one of the findings of the presidential debate to study so having more of a voice for the american people. these are really important exercises for the

it's kind of turned into a bit of a skeptical. we are talking about the presidential thursday reporting the biden campaign picks rightide podium. your question or concerns. >> ii'm concerned that both super strong bias. you can play a half-hour the next seven years fact checking. has there been a debate where there is no moderator where they

ju to see a more spontaneous shorebird presence? >> i don't have any faith in what iswi coming up. a legitimate ncern. we have media outlets that have partisan affiliations and track records so i believe the credibility of the organization hosting the debate reallys matters. i thinkzing network and has incredible national coverage. producing a debate is a different kind of exercise that requires a different kind of expertise. debate producers we believe it is important and has

a different kind of moderation and takes into consideration all the findings of the recent study. the reason we did the study iswe have a formula that works really well. wewe're the n nonpartisan debate organization and wanted data to understand what is hapning to the presidentiales and we see the leaders interact with one another and understand their their platforms and see them engage with each other a i think we like to see moderation taking place that we n haven't seen in decades. >> cnn will host the first debate on thursday as we said to 9 p.m. eastern time. abc will host the second debate on september 10. if there is only those debates is that enough? >> i don't think it's enough. i woth a live audience and that's taking public cares about to centerth stage. i would love to see the debate that has a very different

structure. it isn't really driven by the 24/7 news cycle. was reading an article talking about the presidential debates this year and how they are being designed to be edited down for social media. that is kind of a disse american informed to see the candidates interact. this is the electionea so i think the debate that is structured in a completely way would be a game changer for the country at this point. >> abc with more reportingng on the rule. president biden and the former o answer questions posted by the moderator and one minute each to respond. there willed be a red light flashing to indicate they have five seconds rem when their time is over the light will turn sol rules here is

one of the viewers not include they would be breaking their own rule. >> my understanding is they t commission on the presidential debates and the qualifications and seem to exclude bobby e and being able to have third parties in here debates with other candidates would be an important function for americans. i hope to see that in the next cycle. i will watch the highlights later probably on c-span but i'm really concerned about the gentleman's agea. arethere are so many things that they seem to be one of which hamas fight. i would say let's watch the

ba they take thatt issue. i can't imagine isn't going to come up. it's the mosty issue for the country so i have air time during ion here o d past two presidential candidates and one running mate what happened? >> what hap have a debate that's coming out very early in the cycle before been held so regardless of having the vp pick we haven't even had the conventions that are solidifying the candidates. so it's going all the way around and watching the news cycle that seeing for the presidential debates. >> alexn ohio, democratic caller. >> i have question. i was hoping the panel would ask each of the canifach of them were to step down,d they appoint in their party to run for office?

>> that's the question you want asked at the debate? >> i would have to leave it to them to answer that question. >> i question. one has a running mate and the other does not so it's a valid question to ask. >> thanks for taking my call. i am a big fan of4-span. it's a bigd-partydi to 60% of the polls i think that is the idea the c major parties. the idea there's really no back

and forth in a meaningful way. i think that the idea that we need to have more moderator intervention is a bad idea if one candidate wants to constantly talk a other people, you're going to come across looking like a fool and i think that is happened to trump and the previous debate. it's going to beim appear more reasonable we keep portraying him like a victim if anyone remembers paul ryan talking over him and smirking and being i think democrats constantly put the criteria debates where there's choosing another candidate things like that they always shoot themselves in theoot. >> we will getet a response. >> i agree with you really debates.

>> hearing some opening arguments into specific claims ng some actual engagement between the candidates we are not going to get that because they are just answering questions directly to e moderators in this case, not to one another andnd the moderators kind of operating like the referee so in this case you are right these are not real debates but they also haven debates in the classic sense like we that's one of the reasons that prompted the study to understand if we had a more data to work with could we improve the condition of what is ultimately the most important debate that we see as a nation and i would rehabilitate. most ameri in their mouth because of the presidential debates and a negative aud as a result. the debates are an important it's how we get to the best ideas and come up

solutions. we need vibrant disagreements. what we seeeled in the presidential debates is talking points into sound bites into soundbites and personal attacks and parts of platforms. >> thursday night what will be watching for? >> a great question we are hosting a watch party in new york city for some of our community members supporters so we are getting together with moderator in chief and nick gillespie one of the moderators and the first ones in history with does concern me. we are going to be york and watching for stability for civil exchange for respect forr leadership. the chief executive officer open

to debate. if you go to open to.