will make america safe merica great again. >> here an i give you my word come if you with the presidency, i will draw on the best of us, not the worst. >> this towering american spirit has prevailed over every challenger lifted us to the summit of human endeavor. >> c-span, unfiltered vi the conventions powered by cae. >> boeing's ceo dave calhoun faced questions from lawmakers about safety issues at his company including in incident in january when a door plug off of a 747 max 9 jet midflight. this governmental affairs subcommittee hearing runs about two hours.

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[inaudible conversations] >> it is hearing of the subcommittee on investigation order. we welcome our witnesses and my colleagues and i would like to welcome some of th audience who are here today, the parentsnd brother of rose sumo. and chris moore.and the daughter of joseph curia. and his wife

and the supervisor, 300 -- the other 341 the unspeakable tragedy that occurred when two airlines crashed in 2018-19. i recognize the family of john barnett, and rodney barnett, blowing whistleblower who immense pressure the company put on him for raising safety claims, bear with us today. to all of you, thank for having the strength and courage to be with us. we are i want to begin by introducing

you issues before us, they have real human consequences, life and death, not justac abstract issue, a m death for people who a moment it is abo mp once an iconic comny, ence and lost its way. 5ea people lost their lives and not one but two preventable tragedies. were caused bys, and boeing promise

to turn itself around. planes were grounded, decades were dismissed. promises were made. what we have seen since from is, in fact, theissues retaliation against will still blowing, and issues concealed from the faa evidence hidden all have continued, mounting id that the prosecution agreement. and this is been violated. and the prosecution is pursued.

when they were named, and you committed to, quotwith our customers, regulators suppliers. and, once that chasm was exposed. we learned he said there was no bottom.&psr started its investigation engineers came forward to disclose shortcuts and production of 787, 777 aircraft that could pose catastrophic safety risks over time.

courageously recounted how he s is transferred to stay silent about concerns. this was when we first heard from him. point and we encourage more to come forward. we collected that evidence. deeper than one or one incident or one line of aircraft which a mechanicn they were concerned ab directives to not follow policies and procedures, quote were ordered to just do it, and there were hundreds of others waiting in line outside the gate wanting our jobs. and brought us new evidence very recently, boeing employee, quality assurance inspector informed us boeing is

onforming parts possibly using them. parts that are damaged or he was told by superiors to conceal that from the faa. and he's being retaliated against and threatened with these are chilling allegations. they echo concerns raised by john barnett similar claims about the boeing 787 m5 manufacturing plant in south carolina and additional related claims a different plant in washington. this new evidence is detailed in a memorandum i shared with colleague, psi members earlier today. iikrecord.

mr. ou were brought into the company as ceo, to turn d. you and your board of directors have a duty to your deeply ill-served if you fail to correct course root cause of this broken safety culture. you duty to demand the highest safety standards and ensure every installation is properly documented and speak up means speak up, not shut up. boeing needs to earning call and start thinking about the next generation. we are here because we want cceed.

boeing needs to succeed for the sake of the jobs it provides, for the sake of local economies, for the sake of the american traveling public, for the sake of our military. it is not enough for boeing to shrug its shoulders and say mistakes happen. is not an inder okay to cutrs to reduce inspections, broken parts that happen to be sitting around not an industry where it is okay to rush planes out the door because you need to meet a quarterly sales target. you know all of what i am ying but it is not enough to say it. boeing has to do it. boeing has to live it. literally was invented wit exceptional

american engineers of boeing, the best workforce in the world in the aviation industry o come to work every day and do its bes tre's no reason we should not be the home of the preeminent airplanerld. boeing is making some leadership changes but they look more like management musical chairs moving the same people to different roles within the company, people who may have been responsible should be held accountable. making its independent decisions abouetboeing, regardless of that ou decision, it is a moment of reckoning and an opportunity to change a broken safety culture. with that, i turned to the >> to avoid repeating, my

enin be entered into the recd. i family numbers and loved ones lost in the 737 condolences are shared by everybody here. i want to underscore what the said that this committee, everybody in this room, everybody in america wants boeing the airline industry, and supplying the medical device industry. and the difficult nature/1 with specifications, with hiring people in the manufacturing sense. challenging for the airline industry as well. it is a contributing factor and subcommittee role, get everybody focusing on them,

keepingssure on the entire system. not just boeing's ceo but management team, the quality system that needs to provideassurance to the traveling public, safe to fly. in the end that is what we want. i travel multiple times exclusively on 737s. i get on those planes feeling pretty confident. all the people involved, the suppliers, manufacturing workforce, multiple layers of the faa plays a major role. not a fan of big government but government to do certain things, the faa doing its job to regulate the airline industry and airline manufacturers to make sure they have a perfect record, you need perfection and that is hard to achieve airlines.

i spoke to airline ceos, to assurance to the traveling public that they have their maintenance systems in place. multiple times the final quality controlstep, quality control personnel, the flight crew, the pilots. uli wonever, i would never travel on an autonomous plane. i don't care how good the make sure i've got a pilot and a flight crew on the plane with the best we possibly can. it's necessary we hold these hearings. i wish the airlines would maintenance systems with the goal of assuring the public, safe to fly today and in the future and they are obviously problems. in hand and do everything they can to fix those problems.

appreciate the hearing, thanks for coming here. here. appreciate the conversation we had. airlines will be coming we welcome too witnesses today david calhoun served president and chief executive officer since january 2020 prior to taking this role as a board of directors since 2009. from october to december 2019 in ge, 26 years as vice chairman of the company, accompanied by howard mckenzie

chief engineer of the boeing company has been chief engineer and leads the boeing engineering function.ght, safety and s. mckenzie has been with boeing for three decades. thank you for being here. to square in all our witnesses, stand and raise your right hand. and do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and d. mr. calhoun, you may proceed. >> ranking member johnson. howard mckenzie seated to my right.ho lost loved ones.

from lion air flight 610. on flight 302.o apologize. all of and to focus on the personnel.every second, a boeing commercial or defense product takes off and land somewhere around the world making us responsible for ty of millions of passengers and flight crews every day

including orm. aerospace safety is built on a robubility, and continuous learning. the scrutiny to be held to the highest standard is fundamental to why comiamerc is by far i come from this industry and i this is an industry we simply must get it right. every single time. i served as president and ceo of boeing since january 2020 following tragic accidents. i joined the aviation industry as president and ceo of ge aircraft engines. my introduction to aerospace safety was after the tragic accident in 1989 of united airlines flight 232 in sioux city, iowa. to engine failure, lead to sweeping changes in the contributed significantly to flight safety going forward. boeing's role in upholding the integrity of aerospace sy.

we deeply regret thethe alaska airlines flight 1282 accident had airlines's team and passengers and we are grateful to the pilots and crew for safety landing the plane. we are thankful there are no fatalities. we take responsibly and cooperated with the ntsb and respective investigations and supply chain took immediate action to ensure the specific circumstances that led to this again. importantly we went beyond to look comprehensively on quality and manufacturing systems to launch this more comprehensive look we ld stand outs in our plants and listened to our employees and acted on their i we brought together the processes and announced theion to

reacquire spirit consideration of these inputs, develop a conference of safety and quality action plan with specific metrics we will use to hold ourselves accountable that the faa will used to provide oversight required. most importat people.e world who are the greatest strength. we employees to consider themselves in aviation safety advocate committed to making sure every employee feels empowered to speak up if they see a problem. we have striation employees who come forward. it is our job to listen regardless of how we obtain and handle it with concerns. much has been said about boeing's culture. we heard those concerns loud and clear. our culture is far from perfect but we are taking action and we are making progress. we understand the gravity and committed to moving forward

with transparency andtability while elevating employee engagement every step of the way. are airplanes carried the equivalent of double the population of the planet. getting it r for our company, critical for our customers who fly airplanes every day critical for our country. we are part of a global ecosystem composed of manufacturers, suppliers, airports air traffic controllers and regulators and they are all committed to learning from every incident. this relentless focus on ement has led industry's unparalleled safety record and with this mindset we are taking comprehensive action to strengthen safety and quality and we know as america's premier manufacturer this is what you and the flying public have every right to pect from us. thank you, mr. chairman. t >> 7 minute rounds.

in five years after the max crashes, you are once again making promises and seeming commitments that seem highly do you think boeing has done ou make those kinds of corrections? what would you say to the whistleblowers who have come forward and faced retaliation? >> thank you for the question. i a have we done enough? i remind participate in the investigative work, by virtue of the ntsb report and local regulators reports, theseissues were attributed to the developed of the airplane and a

software package and responsibility for that. >> boeing is responsible for those crashes? cast and boeing are responsible. >> has enough been done? >> the development process for an airplane starts with engineering effort. we've revamped our engineering effort at large, a new one record to as factors that speaks directly to the work to the environment those pilots faced. we established safety management system, learn from the faa and airline customers what it was and how we've been listening to it. we tune the safety management system into every airplane that flies every second of every day. we can learn from those airplanes. >> let me be more specific and apologize for interrupting but in terms of time we are limited. had a code of conduct that states, quote, i will

never retaliate against or punish anyone who speaks up to report a concern, end quote. and yet the whistleblowers we have heard including testifying before this committee have reported a host of retaliatory behaviorsrom to being sidelined and sidetracked careers, verbal harassment and threats and even physical ..after whistleblower john barnett raised his concerns about missing parts, he reported that his supervisor called him times in one day and 21 times another day, and when barnett asked his supervisor about those calls, he and when he asked his supervisor about those calls he was told, quote i'm going to push you until you break. he broke. when whistleblower sam raise concerns about boeing's concealment of nonconforming

rts he p charge of completing corrective action investigation with an impossible deadline and then threatened with formal discipline including firing if he couldn't meet that deadline. when they hear about thesee e i experiences, i wonder boeing really wants change. how can youou reassure us is fact, in this broken safety culture? >> senator i'm going to start by issuing you that i listened to the whistleblowers. something went wrong. at a know the sincerity of their rerks. ask you -- >> and then, then with respect to our company we do have a policy. i often,en the people who bring issues ar forward, even if they have huge consequences on our company and

our production levels, et cetera. my leadership team does that. we serve it people wit respect do they feel empowered to speak that survey performance gets better and better. 's we work hard to reach out to a standdown. the stand downs continue and they wrote it, and we listen to everybody. i'm trying toeal with 30,000 ideas how we can move forward, how do wer,we how do we train the more effectively. our team -- >> mr. calhoun let me ask you how been fired for retaliating against whistleblowers? >> senator i don't have that number on the tip of my tongue but i know what happens. i know it happens. m happy to follow up and get you that number. >> i would appreciate your follow up. let me ask you have any of your supervisors, your anybody been fired forretaliating

against people who speak truth to defect or problems in production? >> senator we have five people and disciplined people. and i'm happy to follow up with -- >> how have -- >> i can't i've concern on privacy and as you know eve>> you come back to this committee? >> i will sir. >> let memo you have you been aware of how boeing has complied with requests for w informa from this committee? by line item, no sir. >> well, let me show you a sample of the data produced by boeing in response to requests by show you a bigger display and the details have been provided to you. are able to make sense of this? >> no,.

>> complete gobbledygook. >> yes, sir. >> this is provided to this committee in response to our request for information. you justify these >> i will, i will describe it precisely as you did and i can't justify. i will most definitely follow up up. >> my time has expired on first round and we are going to try to stick to the time limit because we have a number of colleagues here at it what odwe will have a second round for colleagues who turn now to the ranking member. >> thank you mr.fe chairman. pick up you said you check into that. did you talk to the individual responsible with our information request? have you had a meeting with the individual or that group of individual? >> senator johnson my team knows and i've for transparency at every level and every stage. so beyond, beyond that as a backdrop no, i did not review be your direct report responsible for providing this committee information this

subcommittee information requested? >> a combif my counsel and my g >> so you'llnm talk to them today about this? >> yes. the right behindt me so yes i'm sure it is registered. >> you said you listen to the whistleblowers. have you directly welcome to any directly spoken to any of the whistleblowers? think that would be a good idea? >> i think of what. >> i recommend it. exactly what are you doing then to investigate whistleblower complaints? if you haven't spoken to them directly have just turned it over to your counsel? >> weics hotline and 18 most important thing in every whistleblower out the chute is to make sure we understand the substantive issue that's been discussed and two-stage analysis immediately. and go out and interview everybody that's involved and/or has touched any of that work, an assure ourselves that we're

safe airplanes and ifo take with respect to the points that we do and were trying to get on that immediately. but there's alway view and a perspectives tickled with respect to engineering disciplines that have to come to bear on his. >> how many employees does boeing has? >> 170,000. >> having what a much smallererion, first thing i'm saying is i realized i don't nt set policies, communicate a sco the question i have for you it's quite shocking to have a su somebody up 19 times in one day and making the statement i'm going to you. my guess is you don't condone that kind of behavior. how you look at your incentive system withi on your sales force to manu the planes that they sold airlines. there is pressure throughout companies. i can jus imagine that the pressure is beinggi applied to boeing associates throughout the company, okay? i get that.

i've been in manufacturing. but have you reviewed come for example, your incentive systems that kind of behavior? you know, having to meet quotas? have you reviewed that? >> yeah, this year we made a number of significant changes to our incentive that really emphasizes all thingsha safety, including running alture. with the respect and the just culture i think is thet you would like us to run. and so yes that incentive alignment is now in place. >> so prior to og i read, whether fair or unfair, o talked about your disclosures in spite of the sec where you wereing high on esg and dei and your score zero on equality. these are internal measures. can you speak thate the point being is, is boeing's management are the

concert on dei and esg at really meeting quality performance measure >> senator i have never seen those two ts into conflict. i don't believe my allowed for them to come into conflict in any way. >> not necessarily conflict. it's what you're emphasizing where you're putting your management emphasis. >> yes. well again senator there's a system what we work on everyday l-ng how important and criticalwo it is for the future of our company. safety and quality is it. it's been that way since january of 2020 because of what we've been responding to, safety and quality. that is what we talk about. >> i'll mention another article and the reason i'm doing this the reasons we need a free press it would be nice to a completely unbiased free press but we need investigative reporting. weh staff here at the subcommittee level or even added level so we really need journalists going after digging up stories.

one ofng the interesting before this year, spoke to the very real problem the difficulty you are having finding, well first of all your workforce is aging. throwing code on the early retirement that type of thing you lost a lot of experience. in the past it sounds liks able to tap into a workforce that had experience in thehe aerospace industry.'t have that luxury anymore. i'm not exactly sure that change. comi myself it's been difficult to hire people in the manufactureeration because to get up four-year degree and would be management. you don't encourage people to go into manufacturing i can you speak to issue and maybe mr. mckenzie could speak to that just in terms of hiring people in the manufacturing setting for a very high quality high demand aerospace industry? >> senator joh the question more than you know. the post covid moment in the aerospacey has been unbelievably difficult to navigate.

we have 10,000 suppliers. we put almost two and a half million parts million parts into w boeing because it's big and it has resources even those were strained. we were able to kee m most but like you say we turned over aed lot of people and just a lot of experienced people. our supply chain e so as we t try to respond to unbelievable demand for airplanes out there we have constraint that is very real and it is not resolved today. and i think one of the most important things we can do, we done i went to treat ourselves to do it at small instances meaning every employee. employee. if a party is not there on time if the parties nonconforming we will stop the line. there's so much of this relates ed workforce. i get it, it's all about thaho you. thank you mr. chairman. >> senator hassan. >> thank you mr. chair and ranking member johnson for holding this hea loved ones

of the people we lost to boeing's safety failures, our condolences and tha for continue to advocate for your loved ones and for airline safety in general. and for the safety of the public. mr. calhoun every other day newsbreaks of a new problem or safety concern with boeing aircraft. in just the last weeks been one news story about questionable titanium and but incorrectly installed fasteners with your new 787 dream liners. there's a major problems with boeing manufacturing assembly and assurance. as senator blumenthal noted americans built t ever airplanes more than a century ago but now for theirst time in decades americans are more and more nervous about flyin that breakdown in trust is a your company, and i'm concern it stems from a decision to put profits ahead off safety. so what are the root causes of the system fairly? how are you going to fix it? and who should we hold

accountable? this a you over somebody else? >> senator hassan, appreciate the question. like you everydayte at sc a boeing desc the airplane, two out of every three airplanes. the computing causes to most everything outside of the accident come relate to a variety i downstream with respect to operating and a maintenance et ce airplane.aska was a manufacturing defect. i'm not aware of any othersng that were. and we cannot allow one and say airplane to leave our factory. leave our factory. we are focused on everything that may have contributed toi will say this, every issue that occurs out airplane, our industry does not actually point fing all rally around whatever happens, and if the contributes to that, to fixing that once and for all, we will. sen. hassan: let me just follow up here, because you talk about

a culture of safety and quality could you say "that's what we talk about," and i hear you talking about it. but how is it that you had a 2020 failure from a 2024 failure, read about 737 failures, now the 787 are not talking about the root causes here. how do you make sure cultisthe safety of products? mr. calhoun: i will always refer to the record with respect to airplane safety. tion i complies all of the information, was boeing is a large part of that. sen. hassan: i understand that and what i'm going to ask you to do ise produce to us the documents you have or the understanding you have of what are the root causes of the safety problems your company has had. because i appr7]ia the context, and i appreciate the answer, but as the chair noted, we have limited time here.

i'm going to mquestion, but what i would assume, now four years after the 737 and issue, i would assume by now you root causes for some of these problems in and what i'm not hearing an answer back. let me move onto another issue which is one whistleblower protection. in april, a boeing engineer told safety concerns with leadership a boeing about some of the company's manufacturing us boeing management then retaliated agaim safety concerns. he was a far as to tell us he felt his physical safety had been threatened. not only has your company failed to hold the highest safety standards, but it also seems to sensors people who take action and speak up. i heard the testimony about listening, but what actions have

ken as ceo taken to hold management and leadership accountable for punishing whistleblowers? mr. calhoun: senator, i will start again with leadership and culture communication. lways out there, with respect to our policy on retaliation, not accep will take the disciplinary actions that are necessary and we do have a process. if i get a retaliation i have a team, they are independent, they are meant to assume that that allegation is correct. suggest, because you have -- sen. hassan: i would suggest because you cannot answer how many people have been disciplined or fired would suggest that he personally involved in co be able us that information, and if you talk about the discipline that you took towards peopl against whistleblowers, there might be less retaliation. let me move on to one final issue here. broke last week that the federal is investigating how counterfeit titanium, virtually

from a chinese supplier, made its way into boeingwhat systemic failures allowedeihase questionable type titaniu was substandard once youinyour possession, and to install it in an aircraft. how did that happen? mr. calh senator, i appreciate that question. we did not purchase the titanium. a purchased the titanium, and we would not know until they raised their hanck when russia invaded crimea, we are medially made a decision we would end our divinity on rutherforddone quite a good job. the material we have seen and the parts that our vendors have notified ushas not been substandard. it has met it. sen. hassan: my time is expired, but i would ask you to on what boeing does in order to authenticate materials

that come through the supply chain. thank you. chair blumenthal: thank you senator hassan. senator hawley. sen. hawley: thank you, mr. chairman. mr. calhoun, what is it you get paid currently? mr. calhoun: senator, it our proxy documents in each of the years i have been employed. sen. hawley: yes, but what is it. mr. calhoun: it is a sen. hawley: let me say, it is $2 million, is that right, a 30% increase over last year, is that right? mr. calhoun: yes, it does. sen. hawley:t paid to do, exactly? mr. calhoun: i to run the boeing company. sen. hawley: do you get paid for safety standards? is that one of the -- do you get paid for transparency? is that one of them? you are under investigation for falsifying records boeing is being investigated you were indicted by the doj for criminal conspiracy to this is all under your tenure.

that i not sound like transparency to me. what about safety? is that it sure is, senator. sen. hawley: have that the subcontractor that you used to make the dorky that fell out of the sky, so when the faa went and toured the facility, they found one door seald with don liquid did showawn liquid dish soap and being cleaned with a cheesecloth, and another with a hotelm ety to you? mr. calhoun: senator, i think our relationship with that particular supplier has been weeviewed by the faa, and most certainly us. i'm ppened. sen. hawley: hmm, you know the faa also says boeing still has not implement in the back in 2019 and 2020 after the max crashes. you have not taken the appropriate safety procedures or implemented what they recommended. i mean, if safety is a component of $33 million compensation

package, how can you possibly qualified for any of this? uality? is quality part of your compensation package? mr. calhoun: i meet with the faa pretty regularly. i'm not aware has been cited with respect to those accidents, that we have not taken action on. sen. hawley: really? you said whistleblower testimony did we have multiple whistleblowers come before this comm that boeing is cutting every possible corner on qualin the past, but now. they allege you've eliminated inspections, that there are fewer safety inspectors quality inspections out there. when they raised concerns, they were reassigned, retaliated against, they were physically threatened. that is not sound like attention to quality to me yet you are being paid $33 million a year. mr. calhoun: senator, we have our quality inspectors significantly. sen. hawley: how much has your

stock price increase while you have been at boeing? mr. calhoun: it hasn't, and i don't watch it much. sen. hawley: have you done any stock buybacks while you've been at boeing? mr. calhoun: not in my job, no. sen. hawley:profits? have your profits increase? mr. calhoun: i have not had anyit yeah. i think the truth is, mr. calhoun, yn safety, you are not focused on quality, you are n of this is in the record, but i think actually you are what you were hired to do, which is your cutting corners, you are eliminating safety procedures you are to your employees, you are cutting back , to squeeze every piece of profit you can out of this company. you are stripmining it. you are stripmining boeing, one of theat employed thousands of people in my state and you are shareholder value, and you are being rewarded for it. you got a huge raise, a huge increase. so it is working out great for you. for the american people, they are in danger. re in peril.

for yourhifear for their lives but you are getting compensated like never before. go you think maybe your priorities are misplaced here? don't you think it is te to get back to focusing on making quality claims and paying your workers well and taking care of little guys who got you to where you are? that's not a rhetorical question. mr. calhoun't recognizeng you described. sen. hawley: really? don't recognize the boeing that had airplanes falling out of tmaxes crash, that have pie whistleblowers come and stay these are your employees who has told us -- these are engineerway. are you an engineer? mr. calhoun: i'm not. sen. hawley: they are! d they are have said theylistened to, they are retaliated against, they are threatened. that if the reality ofgtoday. that is your company you've created. i don't recognize it from the company it used to be decades ago, but it is leadership, and you are being rewarded handsomely. why haven't you resigned? mr. calhoun: senator, i stand by

what i think i want to assure the great employees and your stay, that is not the -- sen. hawley: why haven't you resigned? hpmr. calhouout what he sees -- sen. hawley: no, i want to hear from you yet of, this team does that, i've heard from the whistleblowers, but i have not talked to them, and i here with the public want to see, gosh darn it, but you have supervised a company well you are getting paid a heck of a lot m it's unbelievable. if anybody comes good out of this deal, it is ywhy haven't you resigned? mr. calhoun: senator, i'm sticking this through. proud of having taken his job. sen. hawley: you're proud of this record? mr. calhoun: and i'm proud of the boeing people. sen. hawley: your proud of this safeecord? mr. calhoun: i'm proud of every action we take in. sen. hawley: every action? es, sir. sen. hawley: w you can't see it come about be showing pictures of the victims can all see them. and i think the acameri when they

get on airplanes, they unour safety record, and friendly sir, i think it is a travesty that you are still in your job. chair blumenthal: senator budd's. who is here today, to continue to keep their your family strong and present, raising their voices at a time when there is so much attention being paid,'9 you have not relented one bit, even when you thought no one was listening. ñthank you for staying on the case can for being here. mr. calhoun and mr. mckenzie, thank you for your prei want to to your report to the faa, mr. calhoun, the plan of action moving forward. there's not been a great deal of

that it in your comments and testimony to the committee today, you , you say, i quote it's our people who are our greatest strength." i think any executive, ceo, person who has run a business or small organization knowentally is the people who make the company strong. myue, senator hawley holly, was talking about how well you compensate. the chairman raised issues or concerns about, are the people of your company is seeing any accountability for that has led to us being in this place? you said yourself that the people you task with responding he information request from this committee in this room, but i think you would agree that they have of this american company. so let's, i want to understand what is the plan, relative to

the people, moving forward? there's a lot of words about training, there's a lot of words about -- i tried to capture it as precisely as i could, "better work instruction adherence." it instruction and/or training currently providing. so i want dig a little bit into understanding the specifics of the plan you've offered to the faa, to the american people and to theamilies who are here come about how it is that you a advance this plan relative to the that keep this company strong. let me askwhat are the associated with the people part of your plan? mr. calhoun: senator, one aspect of it come in the training arena, it is well over $1 bisenator, a large part oftraining

in response to senator johnson's question and the turnover the number of newer people w have, in our standouts with all of our people, i've always and i'm sure come on certain that the best ideas will come from them. they give us lots of great ideas on how they wouleople, how they would do most of that training on the we dedicated training. sen. butler: i read it. it's about 300 additional hours that areed to -- mr. calhoun: we created andeficiency metric, not simply as a paid but as a recognition that the senior folks and folks are proficient at the task they don't need to have somebody next to them while they do it. so of all the issues that we ard, for all of those people, 30,000 training. sen. butler: so it is $1 billion come about. mr. calhoun: something north.

sen. butler: north of $1 billion dedicated to the implementation of the and moving plan moving forward relative to people. are those costs, are those dollars going to be going into the pockets of boeing workers around the world? mr. calhoun: will pay for all of the time in training that they get. it is not a compensation. make, to take people off of that airplane job and make sure we train them to be ready to do the airplane job. sen. butler: but they will not be compensated for the additional training -- mr. calhoun: they are paid for everthere, yes. sen. butler: now you have a more highly skilled worker, theoretically, and there's nine addi t the puget sound, the more skills they a tkibuli, the better they will get paid. sen. butlethe billion dollars? mr. calhoun: no.

i don't have the aggregate number for that. i would be happy to provide that. sen. butler: i would really like to understand, because i think if what you have said, if the plan you have moving forward is we need a more highly skilled workforce, i would that would mean a better compensated workforce, that is now more highly skilled. so i want to make sure that i understand that in particular. quickly come i want to pick up of my colleagues have started out. in this no culture, you know culture is a, it has really got to be that you are sticking -- the chairman asked the number of workers that have been or employees, managers,ders that have faced discipline for retaliation. what i would like to understand and would love to get just a quick response from you about is how do you plan increase

confidence in these new policies and the culture that you wa your greatest asset, to believe in, visible consequences for the behavior that is allegedly disallowed? mr. calhoun: again, with respect to how to motivate our the most important -- sen. butler: well, i'm sure you believe they are motivated, because they are producing productsr. i'm not suggesting that they are not motivated. what i want them is to believe and trust in your that they keep the traveling public safe and will help them build a solid future for their family.why should they trust you? mr. calhoun: well, firstly, we do celebrate people who give us foand even if it doesn't, we celebrate theirspeak up, and we do it publicly. and we survey the results, do you trust the system, and we get better andedback on that. we have a ways to go, and we

and, yes may a better way to communicate with disciplinary actions that we take. i' people, who we take those disciplinary actions against. is highly likely that the immediate workspace around however or whatever happened in those instances, there's a high level awareness. chair blumenthal: thank you, senator butler. senator marshall. sen.l: thank you, mr. chairman. grow boeing, and he said, if it's not boeing, i'm not going. mr. you worked for boeing fornd. what happens to the safety culture? thank you for the question, senator. ve boeing for well year, starting out as an intern, all the way through to today.

i can tell you in the last several years, and i speak for the engineering team at they are extraordinarily focus several changes the engineering function. we have aligned into one organization we now have the most engineers that have repopulated the company inside boeing. over 64,000 engineers. we have defined functional chief engineer for everyone one of our disciplines, including human trackers. we have built out asystem of what is called design practices, where we are learning and how we do things at boeing. you are an engineer. mr. mckenzie: yes, sir. sen. marshall: you solve a wee a problem. what did you identify as the problem? mr. mckenzie: well, senator, the presumption is, if specifically about the max, there were specific technicalthat were in ever, and to resolve those

errors, we embarked on the process, discipline structure. sen. marshall: do you think there was a culture, though, that safety was not first? mr. mckenzie: i think, in that particular instance, i think that the that the analysis that supported the decisions that were made at the time were error. and i can't state exactly the threads that were drawn created that error but we have built a system to make that much more robust today so that will never happen >> do you think there's a culture of safety first today? within our engineering team there's absolutely the culture of safety first. t or problem invariably the very first question we is what is the safety determination? we have a systemetyd program that addresses every single item coming out of our day. every engineering leader in the company getn that identifies all problems that occurred in the

we take those to our safety structured and rigid process that is overseen by the faa tow make safety re all of those issues. anything that's determined to be a safety issue we go get a very methodical process and we've been doing this for many that defines what the safety pl implications are what the safety remedies are. >> so what happened? what went wrong? we miss the mark? senator are you ask a specific issue? i'm talking up the broad process. >> well, talking about doors flung off the planes. talk by using parts that are talk about planes crashing. >> well, senator the door issue was an issue in engineering. the engineering design of the door is not implicated. however, the engineering actions through all of that remain, as i explained, focused on every learning that comes out from the the

robust processes that we have in conjunction with the faa. they're all overseen by the faa. precautions in the fleet from an engineering >> so certainly as i talked to aerospace engineers they are absolutely convinced boeing is engineered properly. sthey are autbs solid airplanes. there's only goodd things, and i've talked to the pilots. the pilots lov airplane. so many good t things that they could not say enough good things about boeing airplan we're not executing the plans. have g design. planes are good but we are not ing the plan perfectly and that's what it takes is there no room for error in your industry that if you cut corners. what happened?gned right but you would do some pretty bad outcomes. what went wrong? >> yes sir. the max accident, again tragic,

the design was wrong. the ntsb reports all of investigative reports specifically identify error with environment in the cockpit at a crucial fast-forward. now we're losing -- >> again mr. mckenzie what he refers to h is about probably half our peoplee come engineering in particular can work on t of airplanes and half work in support of tproduction operations. so accidents whe w focus in the description of the changes and their big insignificant across the injury department we are focused on preventing the design problem from ever happening again. humanag factors a whole new team, a whole new approach, subdisciplines around it, et cetera. alaska very different. that was ant manufacturing miss. that is what our quality action plan is all

i believe while the was a very discreet miss with respect to the documentation of removal of that door to skipper factory while that happened and it was the ddent on one airplane, we h have tried look at literally everything we do to that that they can never happen again. and that is what o that is what we are up to. but that's a very different process can a production process than the develop a process. >> thank you. i yield bacy brightly. 246 peopl died because -- bluntly. a faulty control system, the mcas system that boeing going to cause a crash some point, correct? >> i would not say the latter part of sentence. >> people at boeing new. >> there was a judgment that our design engineers and dissertation process that that could never happen, but i rllid.ry.

because the evidence shows in fact that the engineers working on that that faulty control down under certain circumstances and fact lyons air and ethiopian air struggle to lift that knows as thehe plane plummeted toward the sea. and they couldn't do it. because theyy didn't know what was happening andnd the reason they did know it was happening is boeing concealed it. they concealed from therefore boeing was charged with defrauding the united states of america. and the prosecution was deferred individuals held accountable. the time individuals should be held accountable.

for those of death. don't agree? >> senator, that's wrong for me to reinvestigate an me investigation that speedy speed is i'm not talking that i'm talking about a judgment. we are here abouttability. it is a moment of reckoning f that will help one in the long run because he to face the truth and confront the need for action. and i'm asking y accountable individuals who are still at boeing and you may be a position of responsibility now? >> senator blumenthal, we are responsible. we are responsible. boeing team and all the investigations and all the judgments that were ultimately taken, i'm not here to second-guess them. >> only one individual was ever criminally prosecuted, a pilot. he was acquitted. and i'm saying to you and upsetting to the department of

be held accountable because that's the only way that deterrence works. would you agree? >> yes, sir. i believe strongly in accountability. >> now boeing paid a criminal fight of $243 million correct? >> i don't know the precise number but i soon -- >> you must know the precise number. you are they happened five years ago. >> five years a ago. on in a criminal penalty. it paid $500 million to the familiesho lost loved ones in the itn compensation to >> yes of those amounts that were paid, was boeing insured?

>> i don' precise number for you. >> you can haven a precise number but boeing was insuredave to pay large do you know how much? >> i don't know that i'm outcomes are. this. did boeing take tax deduction on any of reduce the impact? >> and i don't have the attitude that. >>ou don't haveon the answer? as ceo of a company? i find that hard telieve. >> i don't sir. >> well, i would suggest that there are prosecution that view, almost certainly results from investigations underway and i say a as former federal prosecutor and state attorney general i think that the evidenc overwhelming to justify that prosecution, that t individual accountability and amounts that

harm done that are amounts were. and i would like y to report back to this committee as to what amoun deducted and how much of those penalties and payments were covered commit to do that? >> i will.ohn barnett went through two days ofion? >> yes. yes. >> what was your reaction? >> heartbroken. >> well, it was heartbreaking that's for sure, but did it cause you to want to take those employees who put pressure on him and threatened >> senator now this was considerably before my i do know that that process was taken up by the governing auth looking to, determination that i know nobody is satisfied with in the barnett

family and i understand that and i understandgh a process. and and i know the family will ke exception t that process and i understand i. >> i'll return to ranking member for a second round on his part. >> should i defer to senator hawley?i guess what i like to do a maybe mr. mckenzie would be the or mr. calhoun again the goal here is to reassure the public that they feel safe to fly. we the airline industry to succeed. so can one of you go through entire quality and that assurance? i talkedbo suppliers you're manufacturing associates, or management, the faa which by

the way the faa has only turned 172 documents over to this committee as well. they are not exactly as is true in just about every government agency that i to do oversight on, they are not very transparent. but the faa and the the airlines and their maintenance crews. way through that even if, even if boeing doesn't reach perfection, there are other steps beyond that to try and catch so go through that process please >> i'll start and turn it over alaska was a defect that created an unsafe airplane. perfection is what our job is, and it has to be absolute. we inspected every airplane that has that plug quickly. we k it was a single airplane and as i said, for all of the media coverage of boeing airplanes over the course of ieel that was the only manufactut is related. so now what we do f period.

we look at the value chain from the de the way back to our supplier. and we take dramatic steps tvery step ofe the value chain that door could never, never leave the airplane in flight.ed to our spiritffect and i will let howard a little we used to inspect those fuselages when they arrived at ouractories and we had a lot of inspection sites. would fix all the nonconformances that we would find in those factories. and it created more movement than we should have. so immediately following this action moved 13 13 inspection stations down to trahven att a

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