vote.com. you can also view our website free our vote.com and check it out i think the sad truth is it's hard for u individuals to find that individualized we operate going state-by-state connecting these dat actually conduct proactive out campaign, legal center to be able to conduct this i reach for this year for this election.t: neel sukhatme cofounder and director of free our vote. you can find their work online at freeourvote.com and on x. thank you so much us this morning. >> host: who thank you. >> host: -- she joinseport from congressional budget office.t headlines like this from the "washington post" therillion by 2034. according toch estimate. my mcginest is a limit to how much of that we can take on as a nation and the city trillion

dollars over the limit? >> will come when it are present there is an't keep borrowing the andra means. the realfence, which is there's a really badut you won't know exactly what iss the judge across it and only smart is not find it with the number real terms the issue is when us money start to fiscal path were on and say were going to continue lend you money, he returns come higher interest rates for that. th a larger cost in terms of repaying interest with pushes up interest rates. that slows the con and you get y way. that couldts happen gradually or that couldldit is a moment where we don't want to with because it would cost so much economic pain unnecessarily. ev that moment things are much weaker in economy and our national security because our debt is already too high. we can go of numbers but there are grave cause for concern that comes out this congressional budget office report. >> host: with the people who lend us money?

who hold currently $837 billion, $619 million of our u.s.national debt? >> guest: your look at that to the penny w i great website the debtany places. the biggest place where money is live in some from people who are saving money in they buy treasuries. treasuries a the government finances its borrowing in order to get pay the bills attacks from this that we taken treasuries bills and bonds and notes. there's auctions, people into being an account ofer vanity and accounts of central banks of the u.s. and around the world. part of that money is borrowed from the socialrt part about 34 trillion wem ourselves and everything back too social security. part of it comes from countries lend us money. one not aligned with the u.s. china for instance, owns hundreds of billions of dollars ofakes people nervous when you think about the rivalry between the countriesth

and that is another arsenal power dynamics that canha plant in ways that are not justate these reports of a lot of numbers. here's a few number that rise from 99% first gross domestic product that 120% 2034. the budget deficit is projected to be $1.9 trillion this year and grow to 2.8 trillion by 2034. interest cost will reach 3.1% of gdp this year and grow the 4.1% which of them was most concerned you? >> guest: does not a good number and a bunch i'm afraid numbers. let me go through them and put them a bitnt in context as much i can fix are going to spends can conceptualize that. the debt as a share of gdp is and it is on tra in this country in just three years.s. the last time we had a record was 106% of gdp and that was we had just fought a worldand the debt of the share of gdp came got very, very quickly in

the next couple of years. we are on track to not only break that record without having he debt to continue growing faster than the economy every single year. the problem is those numbers you put out that optimistic because they assume twos that are set to expir means the trump tax cuts 2017 come in of them are set to expire next year. with candidates who have said they don't want those tax cuts toas talked about offsetting the cost but hasn't talked how that will the strong likelihood that would make the situation much worse if you have additional tax cuts after the expire. second is that assumes the the economy could turn down and third is there is no more borrowing over the next window. if you look back congress has the capacity to borrow and not fully pay fort so the chance a policy environment adds to is incredibly high. the defme nonemergency and there's

great cause for concern there that they will grow and that is those interest payments that's the to really understand and be concerned about. already interest payments on the eclipsed defense come how much we spentef ssue. that is a bright warning sign for any country that you're spending more on to borrow that you are on your national defense. that is a very real national security threat. interest is the fastest-growing part of the budget, is a secondudget. it runs over $6000' household. this is money that's the past for consumption that is a number i think will cause markets to start tonk become more concerned and puts pressure on the budget to whether you want more spending, more tax cuts, first dollar goes to interest is a huge squeeze on theed to grow over time. there's nbers and i encourage readers to read the congressional budgetrt. i know it's in everybody's top choice reading but the reportse wonderful. you learn so much. the written clearly. thosefu interest numbers all of

them are signs that we're on atsustainable course but those numbers will cause people to wake up and start to thinkw we can't stay on the path were are on. >> host: andnd nations finances ten year projection is reporting up that the topic of the segment with maya macguineas. if you want to join the phone lines usual by political party. democrats 202-748-8000. independents 202-748-8002. miami gunness making her 103rd appearance on the c-span networks today and needing further introduction what seeing you what is the committee for afo responsible federal budget? around those decades. it is a remarkable group because we have a board of directors who have been in government ese issues, the head of the budget committee, treasury, the fed, congressional budget officeit really importantly, we are a bipartisan organization. i am a political independent. we have republicans, democrats

all on the board. united in thee borrowing dangerous amounts of money. it is not that you have to balance the budget every year. in fact, our hole is so bad we won't be able to balance thethere is a very important goal to grow faster than the overall economy. put it on a downward path. borrowing is there are some times that for economic reaimportant to borrow. it is very good that andthe problem is we also borrow when the economy there's not a single economic justification for doing so and the reason we do is it's politically easy. no one likes to talk about the fact you need to cut spending or raise taxes and truth is we both. we think should borrow not for political reasons, only for economic reasons and i thought now.

we put out by supposed with members of congress in a bipartisan way and we try to get this message out. publics toxic interactive exercises across thelly during the election were try to get people too talk more about this issue and have the would address it. one thing thaere not a political organization and we don't have at political agenda. you might wantr government you might want smaller government but the real choice is are you or are you going to push those costs off into effects of that hit future our kids and we are very worried about the economic and national securityam damage those borrowing choices have and are continue to impose on the country. >> has usual plenty of calls for yacguineas. this is deborah out of west chester ohio the l morning. >> caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i was t needshi the 28th amendment on the budget process. things like regular cetera but how we budget and

not ahow we addresses the process that can work out the details. one of the things we need to is divide our issues similar to zero-based budgeting and we need toto take the issues one at ase wanted it as an example. that's the cost of well spend $330 billion a year on diab the united states is obligated to put aside a per person whether your one or 99 to pay for the disease.ntable. we take a look at that and say how doet we get down that cost?no know the la last time i looked, our medical costs or sdp or some very high nu so if you were to, we have to look back and sayy, we change snap and add sugar promotes diabetes. weo go back and educate people that the cost is too high and it is too harmful to health. what politician out there's going to say you know what, were getting

healthier as a nation a encouraging our citizens to eat healthier, this is how were going to do it through snap andthere was a snack industry, when you make on snap. >> host: that is deborah. maya macguineas tragedy that was cited us. that is a true budget walkie question of a very impressive. come work with us. a really tough question, so much good information in there. absolutely our budget processnder now is outdated. it is could not working any longer. if you look bas budget deadlines we are missing all of them. if you look at the fact that we don't even past budgets in this country, i'most people don't realize that. some members of congress to realize that whatre operating under a budget so often these days. we have continuing resolutions if the budget committees are supposed to each come budgets, reconcile the differences, and the weekly to the appropriations process found the portion of the siscretionary. none of things happening more. we do not have an actual budget that we do

and it's hard to remember when we last didn't, years ago it doesn't have fiscal requirement. ther much borrowing you can put in your budget. the l called the debt ceiling where viewers have heard about the heard about it is recently we keep having huge dramas around with a massive fights over whether and how to fix it. you have to lift the debtry would default ando that would create huge crisis not just you but around the the debt ceilingng serves as the only reminder weor had that we're much and we really need to think about ways, this has happened in the past every time you liftt the debt ceiling you improve the situation. the last time we lifted the debt ceiling tha did happen. we have fiscal responsibility act of put that in place and that generated what would be one to $2 trillion if cards would stick to it. that's not enough to fix a problem but it was a years before that every time congress lifted the the bill that had more borrowing. so they made it worse. some kind of limit on how much we borrow one, would not allow us to default. that ish too great

repercussion for failing to do something. we need to alt that would require us to make improvements and not allow us to there are many reforms that need to have. we need toee figure out figure out how congress can do what is supposed to do witches reflect a number of broad perspectives. we are a very diverse in preferences and that is okay. we nd process that can reconcile those differences t which is what you have to do in order to great job at it right now. as the caller none of the shortcomings of the badge can we don't recognize the longer-term effects of policies. there are times when a policy will cost money but over time ands. now let me be clear i'm not saying policy will pay for people will hear this particularly through the election my tax cuts will pay is bridge will pay for itself. the case. certainly not truee with a lot of the things we we to read about it and make sure they don't fall for the you don't need to pay for comparable pay for itself.

however, demographics have different growth affects and will b a budget to understand which things would help the economy more or less. growth isn't the only variable we should use to decide whether something because it's the right thing pick something to do ems in the future. but having more information like could be doing in the budget that would generat ableimovem to look at. i loved the caller's question. thank y howard in indiana democrat. goodning. >> caller: yes good morning. i have a very different view than your guest in that i we operate on a solvency currency basis and therefore have the ability to makees -- productive capacity. in summary i would prioritize the following fully fund a single-payer health care system, fully fund ace force policy that insures the u.s. dominates space so that we have the resource of our whole solar system tom. that will give us the growth we

need to find out economic to find reparations for african americans valued at upwards of 16 trillion and find the armed forces as we do today. the measurements would be the extent to which those expenditures impact upon employment and inflation for price irrelevant. we have a s.s. can issue currency in any amount it wantsfficient to avoid adverse impacts upon inflation and deo are being achieved that means were full employment high stability and allow suppliers in the marketplace. ..nk you. that is helpful because it is a very different my own but one that is certainly out there and i hope i can do it don't need toown currency so we cannot default pay that is tru and avoid defaulting.

another part of the argument is we can just continue to expand money supply or print money and the only real constraints out there are and then when you hit inflation you make theflation. there are a lot grave concerns i have about that entire approach. one tough moment to make the case right now because we are in th of inflation. our inflation is still too high. we should actually be pulli back about the fiscal approach are time so by the time economy etiquette control and that's what we saw had inflation moments for on number of things it farley.

above the for manageable inflation levels. the it will have gone through inflation long time other than what we worry about it a number of the tro we wish to payt you for just are as much as he. we always should pay for themselves. these things are not true, limits you can do all of the it's a lot of important gs talking aboutbut the question is, do you want to pay for is forming and is what the budget is. if it is worth doing it is worth huge risk of

debtyments and large deficits weakening the economy on inflation and interest rates, do you want to all of those risks into your economy and into your future and to your children and i can't possibly say that is the riice for the country. we need to be willing to pay for the priorities we want to pursue . there are a lot of important priorities out there. host: talking -- been talking abouto win the trump era tax cuts are set to expire. how did the cbo 10 year projection account forf those tax cuts? guest: that is one of those in the debt numbers. the cbo right that we will abide by current. so any policy is set to expire is not assumed inut. right now we haveuts and a big chunk expiring in 2025. from a political perspective it is highly unlikely to happen but if we do extend those taxes that will be another tax cutdrain revenue

from the federal budget and enlarge the and grow our national debt find a way to offset the cost. you can spending to meet the amount of tax cuts it by raising other taxes that aren't as good for thethere are many options but they are not easy. the politicalnvironment i see we have two parties polarized right now and every single issue is you hear about existential threats and everything is so important that the parties will justify to themselves we need to compete annd the way we do that is we give things away, give tax both parties want to don't talk about how to pay for it. wee ng which has many risks with the country because the political imperative to win the next election or the heartmi of people by trying to pander through borrowing. it is a terribly dangerous political approach to the budget and we see it all the time.

back to the question, it is likely that some or all of there will beappened when president obamaen ebush tax cuts. that would make which are very bad already even worse. by the tune of $4 trillion or $5extending the tax cuts will be incredibly, multi trillion dollar price tag. host: to rocky mount, north carolina, wayne, independent. caller: good morning. what ever happened to ttax that wice in my lifetime and they let wither. i believe that would probably a fair share. corpshouldn't they be paying their fair share. breaks and making recordro, it doesn't sound panda or and we take you live

now to raleigh north carolina for presi