[inaudible conversations] the "washington journal" is back live in milwaukee day three of the republican national convention. joiningic us now is japan a fiey political science professor at

marquette university. professor how is mark -- how far is marquette from the center? >> maybe about two miles. >> we appreciate your being with us. who did you have your money on for the veep pick up for j.d. vance was announced? >> sure, so i'm not afraid to admit on national tv that i was wrong. i was leaning toward the doug burgum likely pick for the last month or so. i think there was a reason for that and i also operating based on the idea that we burgum rubio are vans i had thought that the prospect of fans but i will admit i had a slightly different set of ideas about where trump might go with his vice president's opaque. >> in your view what the j.d. vance bring to the table? >> that's an interesting

question but the reason i had been leaning toward burgum first of all was in the pants pick in 2016 we thought trump leaned toward a reassuring tech and someone who would reassure more traditional conventional establishment republicans and most republican voters who might have been skeptical of the trump political project. at the b bergen wood the bergen would maybe reassure the voters but i don't think vance brings that to the table 1 of all. one thing that he does bring his relative use of a context where we talk a lot about age. he's quite young. it's not even 40 years old. the other thing that he brings and we can debate about whether this is a liability or an aspect -- asset he's brings an doubling down on campus movement politics. >> what is trump is movement on what you mean by that? >> it's somewhat stylistic and some of it is sort of a trump political style of very media

savvy style and one thing that is notable about fans another thing he doesn't bring us a lot of governing experience. maybe that's less important now trump has served as president but hee hasn't been in the senae for long in his career before that was venture capitol in writing the military and law in many different areas but it hasn't a climbed up through the republican party ranks. rather he's built his national reputation on the media. he'se built it giving intervies doing social media and throwing red meat to conservative trump vista media audience. we can think about whether that is a liability or an asset in the general election but it's a very different way of doing politics than what we would have seen even 10 or 20 years ago this point. same julia zary how do you see donald trump as compared to when he was elected in 2016 in to see the same person? >> it's a good question.

it's understandable to imagine that people resolve in their politics. at the current moment his involvement in a vision of what he has for politics and for the republican party. in 2016 we saw somebody who actually had some skills to pivot. one of the reasons that drove some of trump success with independent voters in 2016 that helped propel him to the whites house. he actually steered away from conventional republican positions on things like social security. he talks about how he would provide for everybody. have a lot in the way of specifics on those plans but i think it was able to convey a political project that had a lot of ambiguity to it about what it would really mean and play a little bit with the position at different points on the political spectrum. i think it's a lot morea challenging now and he's quite confident in the success of his

political vision mostly based on what's gone on in last two weeks. it's something based on the 2022 election wasn't very successful fory trump's i think it's learning but it's a little bit, maybe a little bit shaped by more contemporary events than the longer arc of his political read this point. >> a year ago in politico you ride an article that described president trump not as a party leader but more of a movement. you stand by that? >> i do. i do stand by that. s obviously particular nightsticks were react to parties and they both absorb a lot of social movements and those are not always easy to distinguish for what i meant by that is a social movement primarily is about changing and disrupting politics. trump has been one of the most forefront of presidential level politicians to embrace this idea of disrupting the system but

that's what a social movement does. it's not confined to the director in a particular perspective of party. but that is tended to mean for political parties as is they are very cautious and risk-averse. they try to take positions they think will bring together released a fair majority that will allow them to end on a national level. what we are seeing here are the last couple of days in milwaukee is this increasing trump evocation of the republican party a movement toward the political style and political position that is not the approach you'd expect to see from a political party that's really trying to move to theal center in pivot to the general. we have seen a little bit of that here. >> julia azari is a political scientist was it mean to have a party event in your own hometown? >> it's been really fascinating. it means the city is in the

spotlight and away the cities are not accustomed to and people here were little bit trepidation as of what a national convention evolves and the people in the city to be perfectly honest but we are excited to show off our city. wee are really proud of it. it means it highlights her position in the swing states and we are placed where we have been contending with a lot of these issues and the contentious tenor of polarizednd politics. i think a little bit longer than other places country. >> if you want to talk to pans a political science professor at marquette time to dial in now. if you have any questions for her but before we go to the calls i do want to look at the other side and get your take on what's happening on the democratic side here.

>> what isn't happening but i think there is something if you look closely you can kind of see rumblings behind the scenes. some of what's happening is the democratic party is trying to simultaneously put a publicty space toward what they are trying to do to think about what their public messages going to be in their different viewpoints about what direction they should go on behind the scenes to really make a plan. i think what you're seeing is tension between the president and the president core inner circle of supporters and the party was than about winning the election in the party itself may be thinking about elevating other figures, thinking about the future the party by gretchen whitmer and gavin newsom and president -- vice president harris.ha raphael warnock might be on that list. i think that's kind of what you are seeing their is we are seeing on the democratic side that kind of parallel up the

president so tension that is servers of these dynamics have come to expect. >> whenve you look back at two selected presents ronald reagan in dole clinton. how would they fit into their current party structure? that's a really fascinatinga question and i was in the ronald reagan room with other political scientist last night and i think the answer to that is both of them with pivot to do what they needed to do. we especially have a sense that del quintin is a political creature. he still around and he still a figure to some degree in the party and they think likely clinton would pivot to go in the direction of the party. certainly i tell my students who are at this point born a decade after clinton was president and i tell them about what his political a project was, that's

not the democratic party they know. i think ronald reagan would have some challenges in terms of fitting in to where the is going on foreign-policy and on immigration. he was also someone who would down the number political pivots in his life but it's hard to really know how he would fit into that populist isolationist wing of the party because it is so at odds with the ideas that reagan had expressed in his parting address to the nation praising immigration and praising the american project. that's a little bit different than some of the strains of thought in the gop. >> what are you teaching next semester? >> i am not teaching next semester. i'm on a long awaited break and riding a book on the vice president of political parties. i anticipate in the spring of the teaching courses on political parties and maybe

populism. >> michael santa barbara, california. i met michael. >> hey at morning. a pod if i i said i was a democrat i would get through ms. julia azari is put things into context for things that people need to hear but it's not really about so much of the politics right now is about image instead of making it about discussing policy per day just want to talk about a couple of things and then i'll got off the phone. it was tragic what happened to mr. trump the few days ago. that was but it's funny no one wants to talk about how the secret service resources were stressed and how mr. trump kept putting the secret service in situations where their resources

were stressed. no onesrc talking about why they picked the rally at that spot that had those locations where he would be at risk. so what was wrong what happened to him but i think his team need to take responsibility for putting him in that situation. all the plane can go to the secret s service. >> julia azari any comments for the caller? >> i appreciate the caller's kind words and the caller's thoughts on that. one thingof that's important is that we differ to people at deeper expertise and that extends to security and secret service. i don't really know but i think we are still learning about what has happened about what the security protocols were. i admit i was astounded. i was astounded that was able to happen on saturday but i wouldn't begin to pretend to know why her to really

understand how we gave secret service advised on the protocols. >> you are few blocks from the pfizer center where you're sitting now and what is the security like around where you are? >> it's quite tight. it's not totally dissimilar. the last time was able to get to convention which was in los angeles in 2000, honestly security was also tight. here it's quite tight and difficult to get into what they are calling the hard stone and then there's the soft zone where there's a vehicle search for pedestrian access. i do think we should mention yesterday there was a really tragic incident north of the convention where some of the police to come here to help protect the convention goers did shoot a 20 or so-year-old man on the more sidef of milwaukee and we are we are still learning more details about what happened

there but it was a tragic event in our city related to that security.. >> danny is a republican in louisville kentucky. >> hi, thanks for type -- the thanks for taking my call. i've been holding off calling in socket find stuff to call about. i think trump has grown quite a bit since 2016 in his first j.d. vance i think he's grown in the last nine years. i don't think you've got your head together and telling her about 40 learned a lot over the last nine years or so and i've been hearing so many people talking about how j.d. vance is not really good enough to be a vicece president obama was only one-term president too. i mean one term senator anthony got to be president.

i wish that hold the rhetoric down and for [inaudible] we need to forth those people tt have toasted mines. thanks for taking my call. >> by with danny in louisville, kentucky or you are writing a book julia azari and researching a book on the vice president of the fact that mr. grants was just elected for the first time in 2022. did we put too much focus on elected office rather than life experience? >> that's a good question. i'm not sure. elected office is a specific kind of life experience that is useful for going into the job of governing and building a relationship and learning how to to -- how things work on capitol hill.

i do think those are good fields they have for the caller is absolutely right that barack obama had served in the senate and both of them held state-level office part of that and the distinction is one that is not specifically about resume experience but it's actually more about the way that they work their way up through more party channels or through media channels but i do think obama i'm not holding them up as an example of someone who came into office with a lot of experience. he also kind of sidestep party channels and on his way up through the political ranks often played on his charisma and media skills rather than following a traditional party path. i'm committed defender political parties asas an idea because thy aren't about one person. they aren't about one person who happens to be good on camera or good on the stump.

they are about groups of people and bringing together people who have a shared foundation and values and different experiences or viewpoints. when i think about the way different politicians made their way up to presidential politics that is what i think about and i do think fans represents a very specific kind of person. it's no' that he doesn't have valuable experiences are or projected. he's clearly an intelligent person. it's more just interesting that he's not somebody who has worked through multiple levels of political office and in contrast to pence's served in the house of representatives and as governor of indiana broader variety of elected officials. that is also really viable. >> you teach a class on populism. what's your definition of populism and are j.d. vance and

donald trump populist? >> that's a great question. i thought about that all semester. we debated different definitions. my definition is something to do with populism as a rhetorical style my answer is going to air itli take you and i'm okay with that. i think populism isn't whether someone is or isn't but it's an idea that someone might embrace or incorporate into other ideas in a different time. what's important about it is it's an idea that there's an authentic people and that there is something abouthi institutios that are keeping those authentic people down. what we see with fans and with trump and politicians across the right and the left is to incorporate some of these ideas into the appeals that they make and they use them to try and sort of get people to feel a sense of victimhood. i think that's a reallyal important concept in contemporary politics and important concept deriving some

of what distinguishes trump is on for more -- encouraging people to see themselves as victims of the system and the other crucial point out that as it does have those elements of blowing up the system and blowing up institution and calling out the establishment elites calling out the media and again i don't think this is confineded to one political perspective in american politics but i think a lot of politicians drawn that. fansth in trump draw on it as a mainstay of their rhetoric more than mitt romney, a republican politician. >> let's go to david and capitol heights maryland in the suburb of washington on the democratic line line. did the morning. >> good morning. thank you for taking mymy call. i would like to comment on everyone is jumping to the conclusion that the attempted

killing of donald trump's because, w was because he was running for the presidency of the united states. we don't know that. prior to donald trump running for president hehe always had a detail of security people all around him. he was afraid to eat in places where people were cooking afraid of being poisoned. and we just don't know that this is tempt killing of the man was related to his political endeavors. >> that's the day putting capitol heights come maryland andd mrs. cragun florida republican. go ahead.

>> yes everybody jumps on the fact that trump is a convicted felon but i consider biden a rapist and murder. he doesn't know where he is day-to-day. democrats have got them -- how did that girl in texas had the last threat drank a lot of beer by illegal aliens and all the americans that are being killed three back and murdered. so does craig and the veto, florida. julia azari to think president biden will drop out ofnk the rae or the democrats will? will him? >> i avoided making predictions on that. we are in a 50-50 situation right now and it sort of seems like what's going on in the democratic party is that people

are trying to sell on figure out what to do. they are clearly people that think that the best course of action is for biden to drop out. i don't know that there's any doubt that the president age and preparation to continue on in office as a result of thispr age have been major sources of concern the other side of that i don't know that the other side of that is so much that that's not true but it's not clear what vice president harris do better in the polls? there some evidence either way and if she were to be overlooked is the complex dynamic involved in overlooking this kind of situation a woman and a person of color to serve as vice president. those are very important constituencies within the aa democratic party and the subject needs to bet t handled with

delicacy and they have a number of politicians that do probably ab at theth ready but are they nationally known and are they ready to hit the ground running mid-august when this campaign is going on? it seemsms like forever since te dawn of time so i think, that's the dynamic going on in the democratic party right now and the latter questions are the ones that will drive what happens not so much the answers about what is biden older is the experiencing physical decline that often is experienced at that age? most people have accepted that those things are happening whether or not they agree to what degree or how much itor matters. to answer the question of what's next is a sticking point for democrats. from marquette michigan on her independent line. >> good morning and thank you c-span for taking myen call.

julia azari my question is back in december i called and about the age of both candidates and now we are actually voting for the vice president to be president. i believe both men would die in office my question goes back to hillary clinton and donald trump. the polls had clinton so far in advance many yet she turned outn the it's because of people like me. i didn't vote for either party because i didn't like either choice. i don't think either person deserved to be president then and i think atat this time both men are not going to make it through an election. they are going to make it through four years in office. if i'm right how many people were like me and 16 that will be the same way this election? nick thank you edward. professor julia azari? is hard to.

a pretty good diagnosis of what happened in 2016. it's useful i to note we aren't that far off in terms of the national popular vote but they failed to capture what went on in wisconsin and where the is coming from michigan and pennsylvania with the electoral college strategy andra having to starkly to unpopular candidates is a recipe for the dynamics the callerte describes. what this potentially happened at this pointha is what drives people to vote if they may or mayig not be inclined as they perceive the two candidates in that they care about those differences. i think over the course of time probably those feelings have heightened somewhat and they are people who may not have voted in 2016 because of the polls and they thought the election was foretold in the stars and

clinton was opposite going to win regardless of which candidate they may have leaned toward a didn't come out in both. the lesson and 2016 and 2024 that matter matters their presidential elections are very closely fought in a handful of swing states. i think that might change some voters voting calculus if they say i don't like either candidate that they really had to choose i would prefer one or thedi other for a philosophical party ideological policy reasons or any other reasons i might have. >> julia azari a chance to talk about your home state and wisconsin. what is it that's in the water up there? 1960, 1968 the last couple of elections it's been very close. the ripon society and the founding of the republican party what is it about politics in wisconsin? and it's a really interesting question. i think they are two things going on there.

one is a bipartisan progressive tradition there rooted in this, you mentioned the progressive tradition that's really rooted in this idea holding the powerful to account. the bed ofit a populist traditin is rooted in these foundational ideas of good government and public service. that's up to recent history in wisconsin and why it's been so -- is there a lot of undecided people in middle and independent political thinking for that is change a little bit and i've recently seen data presented by franklin husserl resident pollster and senior marquette polls suggest that this has changed a little bit and now you have a lot of committed partisans. you have the deep blue milwaukee deep blue dade county in the couple of other spots in the

state. an increasingly deep red throughout the rest of the state but it's become a place where now it's simply because people are soso deeply committed to thr partisan views. it's ultimately a bit of a turnout battle here is a post to debate about persuasion. >> last call for julia azari comes from michelle in louisiana >> hi. i feel like for me i appreciate biden's infrastructure bill. it's been in my town and i've seen bridges and the real roadside seen the roads and everything in my entire town and i appreciate that. i felt like with trump to me

went back to january 6. that was my immediate thing and i felt like it was a call to fight literally. now it's for me. >> thank you michelle. we are going to leave it there. julia azari as president biden emphasized enough his legislative achievements and so does anyone care politically any more? >> these are good questions and certainly the biden ministers must try. i think it sort of depends on what it is you're looking at. i would say here in their assigned to the place about different things as a result of biden's infrastructure bill. certainly the democrats have done their part to have some signage up while the republicans are here.

i think if we talk about the bill 1 of the challenges of a policy is not the messaging we talk a lot about messaging up policy changes people's life often slowly and you don't necessarily see the effects and competing with immediate effects of inflation. for january 6 that's a hard to about it but cares i think people do care about it and i think the images stayed with people. i think forin democrats it was e day that exemplified their fears about the republican administration and the republicans they are still convinced of the story of the baseless electioncl claims about 2020. i think those are to some degree motivating the hardest partisan in both parties. at the forefront of everyone else's mind. >> julia azari at marquette university as always we appreciate you being on c-span

and that you shared your hometown with us up in milwaukee so thanks for bein here. >> thank you so much. we are in a national crusade to make america great again. >> for progress and for peace. taxes will go up. anyone who says they won't is not telling the truth.

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