they give me strength and i need strength now. so thank you for your love and respect for joey. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ >> american history tv, saturday on "c-span2", slowing the people and events that tell the american story, 615 east and east peter president lyndon johnson and johnson martin and march 19th is the address would limit the war in vietnam to the nation's decision not to re- run for reelection and 70 and want to mark in history tv series, historic convention speeches, featuring notable remarks, presidential nominees and other political figures from the past several decades. in this week some next dated media commentator speaking at the 1992 republican national convention in houston and if it

losing the party's nomination for president george hw bush and that new york senator hillary clinton, the 2008, everybody national convention in denver after losing the party's nomination to illinois senator barack obama and 9:30 p.m. eastern, look back at betty for rosalynn carter breaking egg from conference on the private lives and public duties up first ladies with a discussion on the role of first ladies and exploring the american story, watch american history tv saturday on "c-span2" and find a full schedule program guide or watch online, ending time is cspan.org/history. >> sees manager unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and more including spark light. >> the greatest is the great place to call home and is partly coming it is our home as well and right now we are all facing the greatest challenge, as we

spark like working around the clock to keep you connected and we are doing our part so it's a little easier to do yours. >> 's out butt's our place for c-span is a public service come along with these others television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. the head of the national transportation safety board, testified about the agency's final report, on the 2023, he's balancing ohio's train derailment as part of their investigation the ntsb has issued more than 30 safety recommendations to prevent similar incidents from happening in the future and will also hear from other state regulators and industry officials of the house transportation and infrastructure subcommittee hearing. [background sounds].

[backgroundd sounds]. >> subcommittee and railroad pipelines hazardous materials to order nas unanimous chairman be authorized to be clear resource any time today's hearing without objection so ordered and he also asked the members do not subcommittee be permitted to stick with the subcommittee of today's hearing and ask questions without objection so ordered and is a reminder of members we consider document into the record, please also e-mail it to document pi@mail . house .gov. and now recognize myself a five minutes purpose of an opening statement. and i'm pleased to call this

hearing today to discuss real safety as well as the events that occurred in east palestine and i am hopeful every member has had ample opportunity to review the ncvs fun report, depending bipartisan legislation in both the senate and in the house. the road safety enhancement act that it introduced with congressman bolton builds upon the bipartisan legislation arson colleagues marked up and passed favorably on the commerce committee and first, it requires all railroads to enroll in the confidential close call reported system, for a period of two years. t and this program is run by an independent third-party and allows the railroad employees to report close calls and unsafe incidences and secondly, our legislation does not include the periodic of railcar section included in the senate real

safety bill as well intentioned glibly about theke discussion fm a wide variety of stakeholders so that these work redundant and not necessary. in legislation requires safety notice fight entered first the existence of the gas grill act which is a tool that provides real-time data to first responders about a train content in the makeup of the stuff above train in the first responders had issues accessing the app due to a lack of productivity and are bill creates conductivity pilot program fill the gaps in service to the op along the national freight network invokes people came to ease policy and volunteer fireman the get to the scene of the can even have no conductivity they did not want nobody was inside the car. in our legislation does that pretty legislation authorizing

additional $1 million the river crossing nomination grant program, $1 billion. "ms. carmody, rick crossings are one of the deadliest basin and in the reel america and they are real and how we systems meet and better separating these was a thousands of lives and incur many of the benefits. and i believe the american people would value federal investments in this area. it would not only reduce congestion on the network with it would also save lives and finally, our legislation authorizes 100 million annually for the federal railroad administration to establish a grant program to install onboard freight railcar systems and gatewaypo devices and the purpoe of the programam is to outfit te new and existing freight real

card hazardous materials and additionally, this program will provide shippers with real-time data, other tank ours health and performance. i will also contains compromises, compromises on the phaseout of the dob when limping car it industry has indicated, that they can meet. the senate imagege it entered legislation in the middle immediate aftermath of the derailment in a spell seen and i will the house where they choose it we chose white for the ntsb final report. and have a form of any further, my republican colleagues, i need to speak to my republican colleagues, and an overly safety act in the senate, his supported by president trump is authored by vice president dominique senator j.d. vance represented both we took the bill and we added four key safety

components. the confidential close call reportingg system, ask for conductivity pilotra program wih modernize the fleet, more railroador the crossing elimination grantgr program. taking senator j.d. vance's bill 90s for safety provisions makes is aak very good real safy bill family ask for your support because it is theag right thingo do it i have read every page of this final report in the reports related to other derailments and tragic incidents across the rail network and the idea that we do not evolve in the safety realm, is indefensible. i send it an invite to several of the railroad ceo and is my intention they would use this opportunity to discuss the positive policiess the companies have taken in the areas there facing. some of these railroads coming up good stories to tell and i

have personally visited several of them. i visited operation in illinois and it was top-tier. the types of technologies they are developing, state-of-the-art and will save lives in a commend them for their efforts. but we can do more. i'm eager to listen to the witnesses today, and look forward to asking the panel questions. i now recognize ranking member ms. wilson for five minutes forr an opening statement. >> thank you mr. chair for convening this important hearing. the safety of the passenger railroads in thelr communities that they travel through, should be our top priority on this subcommittee. the norco train derailment in east palestine, shock to the nation but we cannot move over 1500 rail incidents since in my

district in florida, division between cars and trains them remain put under persistent problem while technological solutions to improve the real safety exists. it is clear, that railroading overall safety culture has room to improvement my top priority has always been rail safety. i am think will that are chair has made it a priority with this legislation alongside other members of this committee representatives site and —-dash and i hope that the information from today's hearing will encourage us to market this legislation and send bipartisan rail safety bill to the floor. noor transportation accident haa singleio cause, the ntsb reportn

the nor folk southern derailment makes it clear that there were many carpentry because of they derailment in the decisions to vent and burn final under the mistakenly and that the tank cars were in imminent danger of exploding. according to the report, 26 percent of the cars did not zero had reportable fix despite being inspected before departure. i would look into and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses about what railroading practices need to change to catch defects d like these. in that year and a half since that the roma, many media outlets have reported, that carmen that had less then 90 seconds to inspected railcar or have been pressured to release the cars known to be defective.

unfortunately, after the development of the training east palestinew had to hold members and one train on board were able to respond quickly to the accident related to that quick action from the movie date look about it away from the fire for any additional fires endangers to the first responders and the surrounding community in italy one person have been on board, they would not have been able to do that so quickly. so let us see the determinant legislation ensures two-person crews and also concern by the ntsb findings that is quite having very displaced on average of every 15 miles prior to the derailment of the crew did not know the bearing is in danger of

failure train derailed outside and expanding of the bearing detectives, only improve the rails if the detectives are the spacing gives sufficient time to stop a faulty train before catastrophic failure thank you mr. chair for holding this hearing and i go back. sue generally yields i knoww recognize ranking member ultimately this or larson for five minutes. >> thank you chair and ranking member wilson for holding today's hearing in real safety and ensuring safety them of transportation commissioner always be this committees top priority. the derailment he spell seen ohio impressive in calling for real safety hearing and real safety legislation. in may 2023, every investor the letter asking for real safety hearing and highlighting the dozens of standing real safety

recommendations from the national safety board. and now the ntsb is issued his final report of thena derailmens among democrats representatives fulton likes of lucio have introduced real safety legislation in this hearing is opportunity to hear the variety of perspectives on the ntsb final report when he was more than 30 additional rail safety recommendations and several of which require legalev action. any are never go, we all watched the joint toxic fumes was released into the sky after the northo derailment in virtually nobody died as a result of the realm of remains reminder of why we need toin be vigilant about real safety is why the democrats la real safety roundtable in march and heartt from communitis no workers impacted by rail accidents and amir frank moran of georgia told the members of legislationme concerning crossis would help his community national league of cities executive director clarence

anthony, told the members of thousands of community service country super common sense railr legislation and locomotive engineers and national legislative but different express concerns railroads continued by one rail accidents and robust. sheet-metal air rail sanitation workers kennedy, congress needs to make printte real safety a priority meaningful changes are needed in the industry and dawson order to have small business in ohio highlighted how dangerousas derailments per community. meanwhile the real safety accidents incidents continue to occuron over the last to get it trans have not improved in the washington sale of the work 193 trade accidents 71 right crossing incidents, 167 railroad right-of-way fatalities. over the last five years including the santa fe you know filled with 3000 gallons of

diesel fuel on the reservation market 2023 openings getting longer, railroads continue to shrink the workforce andri from 2015 — 22, the vestment rustling up 55 percent of the employees prefer percent locomotive repair employees 23 percent of the park employees in 2023, the weather for teamwork rail accidents and that in 2022 so we look forward to the passing legislation will safety concerns anything different change like which that change must make addresses into bsc regulations high hazards trace definition deck detectors from final service animal also provides hazardous materials emergency responder training and importantly coming mandates harassment railroads confidentialo close call system and the bipartisan supercharge

investigation rail with one or $2 billion in plan findings many of these investments will improve safety along with making serviceim improvements and i sue and $9.5 million grant and the bill at great crossings and crossing that i first heard about more than 20 years ago as a freshman member of the house of representatives, and sit please that project is advancing toad improve stability creating jobs i keep the regional economy moving, the aisle includes a $3 billion to separated close crossings the roman crossings limitation rail programming, and five billy dollars studio safety efficiency and reliability of the real insulted rail structure safety improvements in program expect great results from these programs in reall funding come

but there ist more to do and think the chair and ranking members and witnesses including a member of the house of representatives from ohio look forward to hearing their testimonies and ukraine app i'd like to recognize witnesses and thankor him for being here today and explained what i think system, there are three license front of you, the remains go, enemies are running outut of tie and rent, including your remarks. it has unanimous consent of the witnesses statements be included in the record, without objection soso ordered, and has unanimous consent of the record of today's hearing made open until such time as witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing, without objection so ordered at a also else unanimous to set the rate card remain open for 50 days for any additional comments and information submitted by the witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing and without objection so ordered as a written testimony been a part of the record, subcommittee ask

that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes with akamai will turn to her first mental and really from the great state of ohio, you are y recognized for five minutes for your testimony. >> thank you. ranking member and members of the seventh many, thank you for allowing menk to despite this medical issue of real safety only be clear, summa real safety as a global disgrace north of seven train to rome he spell seen coming to 60 miles from my homeen, president biden was nowhere to be found in with secretary pete buttigieg commented on his behalf ten days after the fact, he blew off his situation by saying, there are roughly 1000 cases that your screen the railings and with thousand reminiscent year and that is pure government negligence and that he spell

seen disaster was a nice intention and isolated is it was like a pulpit fill in the fears every where in the government in the realm it's not limited to one single company, any issues h rail safety are not limited to derailments is another tragic incident that we have seen since february 3rd of 2023 included the death of lewis schuster, and norfolk southern connector, in cleveland ohio, march of 23, and the death identity wasn't union pacific track worker killed while making truck repairs in arkansas and april 2024 heard class one railroads are asleep in the switch photo communities limits fear that each passing train could be the next disaster. this is unacceptable and the consequence of an action are not limited to human cause but also financial. in the year since february 23 or

2023, norfolk southern cost targeted realm of their estimated it over $1.1 billion in billion with the become of that does not even include the settlement agreed to by the department of justice and who ultimately pays for this in the american people, to the increased cost of goods shipped over these rail networks my neighbors were already paying for the disaster with their health and i have seen their rations and i listened to their stories of the doctors visits and told me with scratchy voices and sore throats, this is a slap in all of their faces in the national transportation safety board in her chair jennifer company leadership, has made, 27 recommendations to rail companies that remained unfulfilled to this r day.

one ofon these could've saved in the conductor in cleveland a combustible cage on the front of the car to protect against collision, yet he remains on implemented. another recommends norfolk southern ensure all relative expertise guarding hashe met aboard a shared with on scene respondersde had an oxymoron the manufacturing the chemicals in part, the train in palestine, the recommended, not to to burn the contents of the train. with this recommendation was not shared with first responders until after the fact. at the recommends they be really provide an accurate list of materials board enter them a full power to provide this to be spell seen putting those first responders at extreme risk. many of these 27 recommendations are included in the hr 8996.

that is a a bipartisan effort tt should have appealed the anybody who recognizes tsv's critical role in transportation safety. you may be wondering why sherman oaks, myself andan many other cosponsored introduce this bill we were doing it because the railroads cannot be trusted to do do itto on their own and ntsb recommendation are 26, was issued over a decade ago and responsive head on collisionsp d oklahoma and urge class one railroads to assault audio and imagery recordings with a minimum of 12 our recording capabilities. the ntsb reiterated the importance of thisan recommendation in a june butter on the east palestinian disaster in the train had a 12 our recording capability. however, norfolk southern overrode that when only provided

20 minutes running the derailment20 himself. with norfolk southern controlling one quarter of the nation's rail network, this disregard for safety recommendations is purely unacceptable. we must take decisive action to ensure the safety and the security of this nation's rail networks bypassing hr lenity six. this bill has been cosponsored by my members and kathy. and includes parts of the senators already vented f site 76 in this bill requires them to issue regulations so the shivers must provide first responders with advance notice of hazardous trains. and establish requirements for detectors and require a minimum, two men who served and freight trains in my opinion, this is

the most important words out of my mouth today. hazardous material emergency repair this funds, provide funds for gateway devices. certain flooded tank cars like those that derailed me spell seen, by may 21st of 2027, giving them leave time to make this happen. require amtrak in all class one railroads to enroll confidential" reporting system. to provide funds to study the 20 most frequently blocked crossings in the lead ten states. these are not suggestions, these are in. tips. employing a second crewman in a cab provide the necessary layer of defense against the potential disasters and we ass legislatures, must now act as a second peruvian in rejecting the american people from an action

real companies in the administration. in the cost of an action is way too high we see the economic disruption the environmental damage and the threat to human life this moment community is seen firsthand and adversely arrived at ground zero, 18 hours that the train derailment and he spell his teeth of the impact was immediate and personal in every single time the fs akamai had a sore throat and to this day, write it down today, my family lives 15 miles apart from our still using bottled water. the effects of this disaster is not abstracting the part of her day daily lives and how many more residency to be displaced how many more people need to lose their lives before we say enough is enough. our nations railroad network used to be that crowning achievement of american industry.

it once was hails of marblee innovation completed with a gold spike. offering the promise of a brighter more prosperous future. it exists is that nightmare and millions of americans blindness and gorgeous committeeee to take this decisive action is one railroads in the form of the transportation accountable and amend for strict relations and enforcement in our communities cannot afford to wait. next trained irrevocably in n yr own neighborhood. and by all of the supporting hr 8996, not only improving, we are also acknowledging that work of the ntsb german comedy and this is our chance a to take meaningl bipartisan action on the critical issue affecting every state in every district in the united states and thank you so much so i think you and are there any questions pretty thank you and this concludes our first panel and you are excused sir.

>> i would like to know welcome our second panel of witnesses. [background sounds]. [background sounds]. >> as a reminder, the written testimony is made from the record, the subcommittee ask that you limit your oral remarks to my minutes.

with eco tour homely, you are recognized for five minutes for your testimony. afternoon and think you for the opportunity to be here today and since7 1967, the national transportation safety board's have been at the forefront of a railroad safety about our investigation into these spell seen jerome it has ordered significant attention, we launched real accidents almost weekly on this past saturday, within a team to work for jenny to an accident involving the northern andcc southern connector who sustained severe injuries during switching operations in the railyard and is march and southern connector was killed when the train collided with a dump truck at a great price crossing in cleveland the connectoror was writing the lead railcar during the shoving move amend it with he was r pinned between the real cardinal proctoring this collision pretty union pacific employee was also killed during a shoving movement just a few weeks ago this time in illinois

rail yard. the ntsb has issued multiple recommendations urging the railroads in the fra, the prevent employees from writing railcars during certain movements of those recommendations and r remain opn meeting they have not been addressed and in fact we have 215 open recommendations that will transform rail safetyy but only if there acted on and according to the railroads home death, the accident rate in the railyard's authority, more than 50 percent of the last decade, reaching levels we have not seen since 2005 and over half of our open rail investigations involve employee injuries, some of which were fatal and all of which are in acceptable and preventable and the urge this committee to exercise robust oversight over rail employee safety which is clearly at risk and turning to east palestinian, we determined that the probable cause off the derailment and t hazmat release

the failure of the will very cover that overheated and caused the axle to separated the railing 38 cars of the train. eleven of those cars contain hazmat. and three were mechanically breached releasing their contentsts that ignited. all of those mechanically breached it to carson with dot with 11 we determined the specifier likely began with the release of aa flammable liquid coming from a punctured cot 111 park which is not scheduled for replacement until may of 2029 of the dot one the breach were transferred combustible liquids not covered and this is a vital finding out want to drive home, we determined that if those dot with 11d. tank cars and not sustained mechanical breaches during thed derailment, the dot when the five tank cars transporting vinyl chloride,

likelyos would not have been exposed to the fire conditions that led to the concerns about polarization and ultimately the burn actions in east palace team. we also determined the north of southern failed to provide responders with information of a that's other parts for hours and this is not only delaying the evacuation of residents, but prolonged firefighters exposures to extremely hazardous conditions in the cannot rely on walkers which have melted in only one responder we interviewed, was able to act and complicating matters, there are restrictions in ohio, for train all interior firefighters many of whom bravely responded to sites and received minimal training and radio communications were significant challenge and 48 agencies responded and struggled to communicate with each other and importantly, we determined that north southern failed to

dissenting opinionsel to the commanderr and they also inaccurately representatives that tank cars were at risk is a catastrophic earlier. that created and wanted it run warranted urgency and the date the unnecessary decision about five chloride tank cars. as a result of this investigation, which was issued 37 findings, and 30 fork new safety recommendations all of which norfolk southern has endorsed and thanknk you chairmn and committee members for your safety leadership and look forward to your question. >> thinking chairwoman comedy and administrative, you are recognized for five minutes. >> chairman mills ranking member larsen, ranking member wilson and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on improving railroad safety on the pause to

remember representative pain and was a champion trick passenger rail safe and reliable and accessible and i joined remembering him. and today, i'm pleased to join you to discuss railis safety. fra works everyday to advanced safety and our mission through safety professionals partnerships of stakeholders and investments in rail projects are from the country. in the department of transportation safety personnel, or the ground within hours of an awful seven derailment in the spell seen and have been investigating the accident. last week fra reported on our investigation, which found a roller bearing overheated and failed causing thing derailment. fra also determined it out

access procedures and inadequate staffing and communicating information from the hot bearing detectors to the train crew may have contributed to the accident. in fra in consultation with the pipeline hazardous materials safety administration, concluded that the use of a general-purpose dot 111 specification takesp part, to transport acolyte attributed to severity of the accident and in response to the derailment, secretary pete buttigieg laid out a three-part porch, pressing the major p railroad is inviting congress to join us in the efforts to increase freight rail safety and hold railroads accountable. for over a year, the department transportation has continued those goals while concurrently taking important actions to make freight rail safer. and for instance, they conducted

7500 and focus inspections on high hazard trade routes and began collecting training lengthy data in fra to put billions of dollars for room improvement and safety projects including 53 projects to address more than 400 crossings through the bipartisan infrastructures loss railroad crossing eliminations program. fra also began collecting information from crews and dispatchers to class one freight railroads to pilots of the sea three us program and continues with fra detector in the road safety advisory committee and working group. and i am encouraged to do to see the renewed bipartisan interest in this chamber for legislation that without to the safety actions while fra continue using

our existing authorities, we need congress to do his part card because the data shows the class one freight railroad safety performance of a has stagnated over the last decade in my some measures, deteriorated and for your derailment the data show the region 2023, west 51 percent higher compared 210 years ago. while the deterioration of enrollment rates has not been uniform, recent today that does show one plus one freight railroad, experiencing an improvement in reductions under moments during 2023. the overall rate of accidents not at crossings has been rising slowly throughout the decade, taking in 2022. i'm not all the romans are equal, your derailment should be taken seriously. since july of 2023 operations issue that forul safety bulletis

related to railyard's fatalities and just earlier this month, connector lost his life in railyard accident. is neither acceptable nor inevitable and that is why fra has been pushing the industry to do better and for instant fra issued 19 safety advisories and safety bulletins and calling for attention and action on issues action of movement and cars and weighed site detectors and long trades and roadway maintenance predict fra was a finalize safety rules during precise and ensuring thatiz the cruise of emergency escape reading apparatus and certifying dispatch and signal employees and requiring railroadsye to develop risk management plans and every main progress on rail safety history shown in the major railroads of many in congress are eager not to settle

the status quote inviting american public fra annuity thinks that is unacceptable and i hurt all of you and colleagues to both chambers to ask huntley in common sense rail safety measures and thank you. >> thank you. the media administrative brown you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman and good afternoon ranking member wilson m and arson and members f the subcommittee appreciate the opportunity to be here to testify behalf of the hazardous safety administration as a relates to the hazardous material safety and real safety program. it is a testified earlier this year before the subcommittee cover the safety remains top priority of the secretary of the department and our agency specifically is responsible for overseeing the safe transportation of hazardous materials by all modes of transportation trucks planes trains automobiles drones, which

one in ten goods that are transported in the united states everything from nuclear waste into tolling fuels to lithium-ion batteries, spacecraft being transported to spaceport throughout the world. as respect to the rail transport probably hoping for the safest most competitive and environmentally responsible hazardous materials transportation system in the world and largely focuses on establishing and updating standards of roofing cars and operational requirements for hazardous material carriage and collaborating with federal railroad administration enforcing the standards and investing in research and development and participating in an investigation and establishinges requirements for providing information to first responders as well as providing funding for the training those first responders. because the railroad secretary in the globalco economy are increasingly dynamic and probably changing our challenges as an agency or as difficult as ever that's adjoining the the agency i've made itt a goal to

visit victims of pipeline hazardous materials related incidents from washington, thinking members committed mississippi to marshall machine ten, he's palestinian of ohio never directly from individuals fromy families, first responders impacteds by hazardous details and in the case of 2023 derailment, personnel were immediately on the ground responding to that incident in supporting national transportation safety board investigation. once much of thehe initial response completed morency to support the inspections and be with them and get feedback from the workers and first responders. and also the first time from the department's history secretary transportation, visited the site of the hazmat train's derailment and the car inspection and meeting with investigators and first responders predict the brave first responders for the senses were critical in helping us develop major changes to our hazardous materialsor response

relations the railroads which we recently announced as part of our new rail real-time train ruling. we have known for decades that much of the stronger design that the much talk design 117 of pink archery do safety risk during incidences that have consistent advocated for their expanded use in rail transport pretty p.m. tsp noted this most recent report that in the vast majority of the actions involving to carson they examine the hazardous materials of each likely would've been invented to reduce the use of the more vast specifications such ase the one 17th which have the big more protection and consistent use of pet shields in the wake of the 2013 crude oilil derailment into back, we killed nearly 50 people and destroyed dozens of buildings, sums up in the affirmative movie with the priest to developing depressive company hasn't rule, and among

other things phases out the doc when limiting arts and favor newer and stronger much betterr performing arts. unfortunately, the 20 ceasing, congressional mandate just months after we finish our work face out the that weaker dot 111 tank cars in the remains in place and thus congress changes it and i knew the secretary was pleased tono hear your support for quicker phaseout and actually do as well and enclosing breeder to work with the subcommittee to advance bipartisan legislation that improves the safety of hazardous materials and sanitation by rail and the success of our hazardous material safety initiatives given heavily in thedo dedicated efforts of sums up hazardous safety team in the work tirelessly to establish an apple the highest safety standards in the world erics clement living force in the agency's crucial role in overseeing the transportation hazardous materials numbers over the subcommittee point out, too often actions a late until after

the major incident occurs printed o in the ready to work with you to proactively advance precautionary safety measures and thank you for reference to advance the bipartisan b railrod safety decision look forward to working with you to improvement in particular communities look forward to you russian swimming think it was around and missus home, you will recognize for five minutes sue met ricky member wilson and members of the subcommittee think you for the opportunity to join theit panel today to discuss real safety ane development and chemistry council chairs the committee goals to advance transportation safety to protect public health department also share your gratitude emergency responders and the government in route workers harness efforts to the assembly they them for the thorough investigation pretty lady spouse housing is china minor the mortgage needed in the

committed to working with congrs and the administration, and all stakeholders to further improvel transportation safety. and we represent the leading company chemistry and members manufacture products to make your life healthier and safer and more sustainable and each year we should more than two-point $3m carlos by rail and ship chemical as a country need is these essential products virtually every aspect of daily lives in the members are committed to transporting products safely and demonstrate this commitment forwe responsibe care our environmental health and safety and security performance initiatives and in addition, trans care programs provide specialized training crl information from global responders. in the rail has already recognized the safest way transport hazardous materials related it is the multilayered

approach to further advanced safetypo including steps to date mice the risk of hazmat relief strengthen emergency response they believe the bipartisan safety enhancement acts and they provide a solid foundation moving forward i want to focus on one overall rate safety putting to corporate forms and imported recognizes the shippers the railroads owner release the course use the ship the products and significant safety and the members are currently upgrading tank cars used to transport flammable liquids replacing duty 111 cars built in that newark dot standards in these actions require significant long-term planning, and capitol investments in domestic deadline for thetm final group of these cars may 1st of 2029th and will clear five that prior to this fast active made that only to the dot 111 cars carried in

play mobileus trains and not have applied to the train derailed in east palestine and the nasdaq expanded the scope to apply the wall course regardless ofab what type of train they are on and they supported the fast that it also supports establishing an earlier deadline and must be with the ability to produce dot with 70 carson also building maintaining, and repairing all types of railcars and industry data suggest moving up the current deadline when you're maybe too soon. they believe that it provides a workable approach while accelerating the deadline, and also recognizes that an unworkable phaseout timeline tot disrupt critical supply chains the for the bill asked them to review the industry capacities and authorize them to extend the time frame if necessary. i would like to briefly question two other aspects of the house

built in first they strongly supports additional funding for the hazardous material grants program the program supports emergency response planning and training activities is funded by the registration paid by the shippers and others involved in hazmat transportation. those modified the structure providing flexibility nearly double the funding of emergency response training program with alpha disproportionately impacting small businesses. and secondly, they supported the provisions to assist the development and the bond for telematics systems for the railcars and telematics app digital to provide better visibility to railcar rotations, and they may help monitor the conditions while in transit. the grant funding by the programs can help enhance safety benefits with these technologies.en ... opportunity to testify today. acc as committed to working with policymakers and our transportation partners to find data-driven solutions so the products of our industry can be delivered safely and without

incident. i'd be happy to take questions. >> thank you, thank you mr. sloan. you will recognize her five minutes. >> good afternoon. ranking members wilson and larson members of the committee thank you for the invitation to be here. transportation communications union. i'mm hurt to testify about the imminent immense need for legislation that improves the safety of her nations from network. like to briefly pay my respects to the subcommittee former chairman donald payne he was indeed one of the kindest souls on capitol hill. he cared deeply for railroad workers who will be missedd dearly. i also want to extend deepest sympathies to east pala state surrounding communities and especially the first responders. pleases. know we want the same thing as you. to make sure this never happens again. represents various crafts across the rail industry c but those ae

the tasks of maintaining or repairing and inspecting all freight rail cards for portable defects. reportable defects. represent every class one all across the country. i'm about to tell you maybe seem shocking but it is to truth the railroads do not want to know how defective their trains t ar. please know we do not make this conclusion lately. itak is based on years of watchg how the railroads have systematically rigged their operations to avoid and evade quality safety inspections. i'm think cutting the time to inspectt by two thirds or more. turning off defect detectors a number of defects identified becomes too inconvenient. relying upon inspections by untrained crews and utility personnel not despite but because they are t held to a lor regulatory standard. to quote a recent investigative piece the railroads use performancead pay systems that effectively penalize supervisors for taking the time to fix hazards. pressure them to quash dissent,

threatening a part of the very workers they hire to keep their operation safe. as result trains with no problems or rolling from yard to yard like ticking time bombs getting passed on the line for the next crew to defuse or to defer again unquote. just recently fra had to halt safety culture study. setting in place for coach and the responses. or that employees were reluctant to them participate setting intimidation or fear of retaliation. just last week fra paint quality of time study of mechanical inspections across all class one which is attached to my testimony. theirny findings to be eye-openg to non- railroaders. fra is present carmen are given on average amiri one minute 38 seconds per car to inspection. still too short. when the fra is not there the time drops even further. thirty-four seconds per car or

22 seconds per side. when addressing crane train crews utility but these inspections report date and time observation do not support confidence in the performance of qualityli inspections. mechanical employees perform a quality break test when given adequate time. this would contribute to a safer train unquote. safer trains mean fewer defects, if your injuries and therefore fewer east palestinians. sadly prevailing mindset, and refrain our members here every single day from their managers. wers are in the business of movg freight, not fixing rail cards. in june, 2022 division president don grissom testified to this very committee about many of these pressures but nothing has beenom done. batik issues remain abound in the industry's forced overtime of 16 and even 24 hour shifts

now force many to sleep in their cars they are too tired to drive i asked members of the committee if it's too dangerous for you to drive, isn't it too dangerous to work in a railyard? fra has been trying to combat the safety issues but we believe the agency is under resourced and field inspectors like the teeth to enforce proper compliance it. probably after mentioned regions by the union wholeheartedly endorsing legislation introduced by chairman nels and congressman moulton for justice we support. specifically grateful to chairman nels, senator vance and other public and cosponsors from the courage to step away from party orthodoxy historically drawn a partisan line between the railroads and real labor. obviously don't think her democratic friends and putting congressman who is been so focused on thisng issue long-standing support is a real safety efforts are real workers. and indeed it seems both sides of the aisle can agree rail safety should never be a partisan issue.

after all, every american agrees trains need to stay on the tracks. thank you for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. mr. hines, good to see you prettier recognize five minutes. >> good afternoon chairman. good afternoon chairman, ranking member wilson, members of the committee. thank you formi allowing me too testify today. my name is greg hines i am the national legislative director for the transportation division of sheetmetal air real interest transportation of the largest labor organization and a milk american railroading. we are a extremely thankful to chairman nels and congressman as well as the current cosponsors for that leadership and willingness to prioritize safety and the railroad industry. and personally chairman, i would like to thank you for being honest broker throughout this process. i appreciate it.

i disaster in east palestine, ohiot february 3, 2023 served as a wake-up call to the nation for the men and women in the ranks of america's railroad workers it was no surprise. the unfortunate reality is that in the accident awake little has changed. threet major railroad accidents warranted investigations by the ntsb in the last month. mom was a derailment resulting in a hazardousat material leak n north dakota. another was a fatal accident involving a young conductor with less than six months experience in chicago. most recent, last friday life altering injury resulting in the double amputation of a conductor'sct limbs in norfolk, virginia.th these are just three of dozens of rail accidents in the last 30 days. during the investigation the

role of deity 111 tank cart was mentioned often. last week at oklahoma major derailment again expose the fertility of that car like an aluminum can dot 111 succumb to the laws of physics when poorly built trains the rail. because in the contents to spill.ke like most derailments involving mixed manifest trains, the trains are excessively lengthy with great weight and haphazard makeup results and damaged in a hazmat breach. longer heavier trains are more difficult tora stop. the heavier train is the more inertia possesses the more weight on the rear the more forceses come crashing in on the cars during a derailment. greater momentum causes greater

destruction. it is basic physics. no meaningful technology including distributed power units, locomotives railroads throw in the middle to run longer trains changes that. this legislation ensuring proper inspections are being performed unsafe equipment is removed from the rails, it can make things safer. carriers of cut crafts to force less employees to perform safety inspectionco to cut costs this results faulty and unsafe equipment getting into the system. with defective detectors not being used to the full capacity and short staffing of a recipe for disaster. meaningful data isn't needed. one solution is a conference for close call reporting system. or as a root refer to it c-3 rs. programs such as this have been wildly successful in other modes

of transportation. look no further than aviation safetyro action program. twenty-eight of hundreds of u.s. railroad properties use this program to objectively identify where safety can improve. two of the largest norfolk southern bs and f have taken steps. on a limited scope it c-3 rs should be the rule rather than the exception. for present two-person crews every single lives are saved the two people aboard a freight train data does not exist that crude side would rail safety whatsoever.

i ask you would you rather have two people or one person running a train that is weighing thousands of tons? an esa palette seen the engineer, they conductor and training took action. have been well documented and largely credited by ns the real laborr community that night. the big railroads were given their way railroad professionals are not in the locomotive through the next major real disaster. we really want to see the difference having a conductor truly makes? dot finalize regulation mandating two-person crews for freight trains. we are grateful. railroads stillo seek to subvert common sense regulation with legal challenges.

congress must follow chairman's lead and pass the railroad's safety enhancement act of 2024 to codify life saving necessity into law. america's art railroads are the greatest in the world. the process and protocols governing them are not. majorr derailment and hazardous material releases have become common. the community they traverse deserve better. urges congress real safety pass the bar would safety enhancement act of 2024. thanks for the opportunity to testify at we look forward to answering questions that the committee. >> think it mr. hines. i thank you a all for your testimony. we willon now turn to questionsf the panel. i will recognize myself for five minutes. i'll start by asking unanimous consent to enter the following documents into the record. letter from the association of

american railroads to secretary buttigieg march 2, 2023. an article entitled freight railroads and ascii safety measures and drive 20 accidents dated m march 8, 2023. that objection so ordered. in response to esa policy and the association of american railroads represent announced sevenn steps to reach a zero incident f and zero injuries. you can find on the website. have the document that is right here. the first step listed is detector space eat. e.arc industry would deploy 1000 new hotbox detectors and set a goal of achieving a 15-mile average between 1 detectors. with this average spacing have made a difference in east palestine? what's it would not have. all class ones are joining fra

voluntary and confidential close call reporting system. this is it, this is the letter they sent the letter dated marcy buttigieg. how many class ones are enrolled in the program how many employees of those railroads are covered by the program? >> mr. chairman come to a railroads have pilot programs approximately 1500 craft workers from conductors, engineers and dispatchers. >> that's well over year old yod march of 2023. you have two witnesses. >> are woman i like to thank you and your team on the hard work final report did a great job. some allegation about norfolk southern a conduct i would likeo have addressed i want to address it for the record. in your opinion norfolk southern open, honest and transparent with your investigation?

>> they were open. they were honest. they were transparent based on our request for information. was it timely? no. were other actionsti taken in violation of our party regulation enter party rules? yes. >> mr. hines? one of the most contentious provisions you alluded to in our legislation is the mandate. please explain why congress should this provision how it contributes to the safety. >> thank you, that's a great question. they're different than the duties of an engineer. it's primarily operates the train. the locomotives and things that take place in the camp.

they have different jobs. it is important to point out that as far as crossing accidents go which we have thousands of every year, it is the conductor that gets off the train went a derailment happens or car is hit and it cross and paid the conductor goes back, assesses the situation. relays that information to the engineer and the engineer gets emergency services under way ind out the bird depending about where they are coming from but may have to make a separation in the train to allow emergency through you could never do that with just one person. quick select add new legislation proposed in the house and senate still preserves a waiver for the purposes regarding crew size mrs important to have a ship are here to discuss safety and how it impacts them. you have been excluded you've not been part of this in terms of rail safety what concerns do

shippers have? is there anything we are missing? >> thank you for the question. we have supported the bill because like ie say it providesa solid foundation to move forward.y it has largely address the concerns that we have raised with the committee and on the senate side. >> and as mentioned in your testimony we all seem to agree the railroad should be profitable. they got to be safe. how would they propose legislation to improve safety but not restrict a railroads ability to operate on time? >> first and foremost mr. chair i do want to make notes no one has a greater interest in the success of the roots and the people that work for them. if the railroads don't make money we cannot argue for better contracts, wages, benefits, working conditions, all that was out the window. secondarily the service critics

might be critical of this bill are simply wrong. i'm sitting next to one of the largest rail customers in the country. i don't think you'll be supporting the legislation if you thought it's going to completely destroy it rail rail servicefor his entire indu. at the end of the day for the carmen you have two options you give the carmen enough time to do their job and inspect all these trains but you assign more to inspect the trains the answer is not what is currently going on which is to not properly inspect them at all. that is what i would say. >> thank you, i will yield the balance and recognize the ranking member for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chair. there are two types of federal train inspections. an inspection by qualified carmen who inspects a 195 points

on each car and the locomotive crew inspection that covers only 12 points. what are some of the things the shorter inspection does not cover? >> thank you ranking member. i brought a little bit of a visual indication here. i printed out portions of the fra motor power equipment compliance manual at the inspector is required to use and our members are required to inspect two. this is what the cart men are having to inspect. quite a stack of paper to 15, 2:30 one to 32. these two pages is what a crewmember is required to inspectt 12 points of inspection they are generalized. versus a carmen has different components shiftedas measure for tolerances i'm very parts of

those you have gauges and tools. to detract our brothers and sisters in the operating crafts they don't have the time to do this they have other tasks to do that to the freight ready to roll. it's important to have them there making sure nothing is safe. >> do you feel employees are feeling pressured to rush inspections to keep the train on schedule? >> absolutely. the recent times study just showcased how the car men today even a minute 30 some people been floating around or when fra is present, that is what they observed that is not have the car men are created pursuant soon as the fra walks out of the yard it's almost out to 22 seconds. you cannot -- you can barely physically walk the length of a train car and 22 seconds let

alone pay any attention to any amount of detail in the cart. >> there is a wall street journal article that actually says not for railcar workers were expected to inspect each railcar in one minute so that the trains could leave on schedule. do you think a one minute is sufficient to perform all the needed safety checks on one railcar? thank you. >> that's a funny thing for that policy was in place but it's not even one minute. i remember it norfolk southern response is it's a bit of a guideline. while the fra study that just came out last week so they're not even giving them a minute but 44 seconds. so 22 seconds aside. this is the year end a half afterot easter palace seen a lot of media has covered this issue

because our car man are sick and tired of it. they are rushed and cannot do the job well. >> thank you. we talk about all the accidents that have happened since. how has the implementation of a precision schedule railroading impacted safety in your estimation? >> thank you for the question that's as far as safety for the industry. when i started working for the railroad over 30 years ago they are doing things now i never imagined they would tribe it will be fired if we tried to cut the corners they would they cut corners now. it is the short-term modeling of operational ratios and lowering

the operation ratio. that just becomes all they care about. wall street tells himem they've got to cut cruise you've got to cut yourla labor. and by doing a psr it's making them incredibly profitable. more profitable than anywhere in the world but less safe. the catastrophes we are seeing now or happening far too frequently. >> thank you. chair, was going to happen before it took place. >> eightht vent and burn was discussed sunday night, yes. there are several discussions between norfolk southern contractors. >> do we know what the response was when they were told of this decision? >> according to the interviews

stated they did not believe a chemical catastrophic chemical reaction was occurring in the tank cars. they did not believe a vent and burn it was necessary. >> amount of time i yield back. thank you. >> you don't recognize for five minutes. >> think it mr. chairman. i appreciateor it. like many of you here v today i was shocked march in the east palace seen events unfold. i think the american people want solutions to make sure to event like this can never ever happen again. the event was a tragedy i find it despicable this tragic news not taken seriously by the white house.de it took president biden more than a t year to go visit easter palace dean. that slowic response made americans question the competency of the federal government and the capability of responding to disasters like this. the optics of small-town america being devastated without giving

personal attention from a nation's highest office did not build any confidence in this administration. in his vice presidential nominee jd vance made it very clear this is going to be a top priority for them moving forward. and now we've got ntsb report in hand i think we need to focus on concrete ways to improve rail safety, improve transportation of chemical goods reit built american confidence and a transportation sector. let's use today is a great chance to move forward forward on the same page. the first couple of questions are for mr. jeff sloan with the american chemistry council. note doubts on the events and easter palace and many americans realize for the first time the rail and chemical industry were very closely together. mr. sloan would you give a very brief overview of the role chemical companies play in

ensuring the safe transportation of chemicals by rail? and after that do you believe a rail is a safe way to move hazardous chemicals or is there a better way to move them? >> oh start with the second question first. rail is the safest way to move hazardous material by land. our industry is reliant on the rail industry to deliver our products where they are needed across the country. we have a collaborative relationship with the rails when it comes to safety. would be the trans care program which acc cooperates with the railroads to provide hands on training to local emergencyai responders. when grant funding support excellent example of how shippers railroads and government officials work

together in chairwoman several times i have seen in the last month or so. with various transportation issues. your good job doing a thorough job ntsb report. your efforts are truly appreciated.u, ntsb report recommendation to industry, state, local and federal entities. i understand a number of recommendations were meant to be handled at other levels of government by the industry themselves. can you share a few specific recommendations on what you believe congress cant do to ensure thisre tragedy never happens again?

>> thank you very much, sir. one particular example would be an aggressive phaseout of dot tank cars but this started witha dot 111 tankcar inflammable service. also expanding that to include other hazardous materials raising up those. that will be a tremendous improvement and rail safety over all. this is something we have recommended over 17 accidents going back to 2013. in fact what a study in 1991 and have been recommending it ever since. here is what i will say. how this law discussion whether jute rail safety s rail safety improvements right now. this committee has a role? a critical role in improving rail safety. you have all done so much on a bipartisan basis over a decade. i work for this committee for 14

years i saw tremendous success on safety put everything from the motor carrier safety act in 1999 a real safety improvement act of 2008, numerous highway entrance about pipeline reauthorization bills, you have donell so much to improve safet. now is the time because this could occur in texas, california, wisconsin, georgia, wealth, it did occur in pennsylvania because you were right on the border. it could occur anywhere. this is an opportunity to improve rail safety and i hope you will use it. >> thank you and it will yield back. who asked him to say that sounds like an endorsement of our bill. but hey listen i recognize the co-author of the safety enhancement act for five minutes. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. and thank you so much for your opening remarks describing this going to associate myself with those remarks and very proud of the o piece of legislation we he put together in cooperation with

so many people here, so many of the folks represented here today including class. at the same time you want to be careful to disassociate myself with some of our new colleagues remarks at the beginning of this hearing. unlike his partisan attack on the administration, this bill is truly bipartisan. mike kollek has been a wonderful partner. unlike his vitriol against a railroad, mr. sloan and others have her mind it's rail at the safest way to transport hazardous material across the country. the point of this bill is not directly railroads. but to improve their safety and competitiveness. we went the rear was to be safer and more competitive to take more trucks up the highways. in 2023 there were 22543 hazardous materials incidents under nation's highways. compared to 297 freight rail hazmat incidents. but that is not composed of

20005 and 43 on highways versus 297 on freight rail, i'm not sure what is. but having said that we want to see 297 go to zero. from 2012 until 2023 there been zero railway deaths with hazardous materials urban 82 80fatalities on highways with hazmat. so railroads are already doing pretty well. but we want to make them do better. ultimately we share the goal of shifting more traffic from unsafe hose proved that the large part of goal of this bill. now after the east policy derailments, norfolk southern was attacked by an investment fund trying to take over the company. setting tragedy as a reason for change. if their primary line of attack was they couldn't better returns by implementing precision scheduled railroading. this ohio-based vehement wealth

fund once a railroad of longer trains menen by fewer personnel less reinvestment infrastructure to return more short-term moneyy annually to shareholders. based on the data we have today would longer trains, fewer personnel for operations and maintenance and lessfr investmet in infrastructure improve rail safety? >> congressman, thank you for thee question. no. >> know it would not? in response to the attacks alan shot changed out his chief operating officer for someone more steeped in precision scheduleder railroading brought three and quarter directors onto the board. that is the effect of family wealth fund based in ohio. the same state were east policy occurred. this ises going to make things worse. the point is railroads are safe today. we want to make them safer but

there's work to do because even if you just look at how norfolk southern has handled things over the last two years seems like they're moving in the opposite direction. now chair i was taken aback by the video you obtained which showed the cause and for these pulsing trash he was on file for minds before the train derailed past hot boxes was reading 103 degrees and 115 degrees which is not trigger an alert. now this little ring on my finger it measures my body temperature all day long. because a couple hundred bucks in addition to data much more complex measurements of our heart rate and availability and eccentric sessions every will at a temperature sensor like that to transmit directly to the local engineer. any unexplained rising temperature that mentoring safer? >> yes, it would make immigrants with this technology providingul constant time measurements directly to operating crews be more effective then it simply having more wayside detectors?

>> yes,id sir. >> mr. sloan would your customers benefit from having real-time location car healthnd data on their shipment? and on the cars hauling them across the country? >> we believe onboard centers have the potential to provide buttional safety benefits there is a lot of work still to develop them. >> and not ask you about that i'm asking would benefit your customers hit over the cars are whether they're healthy? >> yes. yes it was your members a benefit from knowing real-time data on health and safety of the makears that they could appropriate repairs and negative terminals? >> absolutely. >> mr. hines with this data makeour trains safer across ame? >> yes. >> is the kind of innovation included in this bill this is innovationlr that will make railroad safer that will move this industry forward.

it will make them more competitive. that is why this bill is so bipartisan it is why we ought to get support. not just some of the groups represented appear from the class one as well but thank you, mr. chairman i yield back. >> thank you is an honor to work with you. i recognize for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. how practical is it will start on this, to every railcar has approximately eight wheels that could be monitored under what was just talked about. with a data point on that. so what had occurred train you have 800 piece of data coming at the engineer. is that practical for an engineer to be monitoring that much data to operate a train? >> the data it would probably go to the back office it would not go to the engineer.

>> is that manageable at that kind of distance with the amount of trains running across the country? is there something more halfway in between of what we have now with a railroad site heat temperature monitor versus a device on every single bearing on all the railcars? >> hot d bearing detectors are effective. but we need more advanced technology to ensure greater safety. that would include acoustic bearing detectors and onboard sensors. >> last tape we were here i had some follow-up questions with you after that. the bearings indicating whether to 3 degrees or hundred 15 it's burningup up obviously's accurae information.u for me too find something more additional on that particular it with the palace seen one? >> yes. the bearing registered at 38 degrees at milepost 79.8. we know it was registrant 103 degrees just 10 miles later

in salem, ohio progressive know on video it was on fire so what are 3 degrees does not make sense as you mentioned. that is because it can take 30 -- 60 minutes for the internal defect to result in the actual temperature. which couldn have been 253 at milepost 49. that is the highest it would've since at that time. >> thank you. let me shift to coming back to the incident a vast number of agencies part of the response. my figure is 48 different agencies were involved one way or the other. at the time of our follow-up on that. how you see live a better job of coordinating two may be to have so much to deal than a short amount of time to make a key

decision. i am bothered by the decision to burn the material in the railcar. quickly referring to the emergency response immediately after thete derailment? immediately after prickle to meet up after the derailment emergency responders need information. theyha need to know what is in e train cars to protect themselves. they need to know what is in there to protect communities. that is by getting that from the railroad. by law it is a requirement to provide that information. to emergency responders. it is not unknown to a railroad what theirir network is, or the trains operate. they know when the derailment occurs. we have e-mail sent a train to an incident commander. this case women east policy fire department. their incident command. but the incident commanders did

not have access to the train for hours. meanwhile they were getting exposed to a significant hazardous material. i also mentioned radio interoperability was a major issue. these agencies could not talk to each other but that could happen anywhere i hope it's something you will address. >> how do we improve the coordination? >> i'm sorry? how can we improve the coordination amongst information on the railcars in the immediacy for these emergency folks? >> i don't think ask rail is the answer. i don't appear there so many communities across the united states that you may not have internet service or be able to access anything on your phone. or even know to ask for something on your phone. this is information again, that

railroads know what is moving on their network. they know who is on their network. they can provide that information. we e-mail all day long. they know innateid development occurs provide the information in a timely way to 911. it is not hard for them to do that for this should be held accountable for doing that. >> they know this before the trainn leaves the yard let alone whether this interconnection or not on site. before it leaves its original point of picking up the communal. they have an electronic or paper form. >> why could they not be relayed all of it emmaline, i guess? >> it can assert when they know there is a derailment that will provide that because even without a derailment we should note when you come to this account at this approximate time. why would that be tough? >> they could.

you might have an overload of information to emergency responsese agencies. when there is not a derailment that occurs it. but when there is one initiative final rule to be provided immediately so perhaps the deputy administrator like the top of the final rule production chairman might get after me on time here, it's after him. >> will come back for a second round if you are to hang out. >> thank you's progress i would now recognize mr. garcia for five minutes. >> thank you chair in ranking member into all of our witnesses this afternoon. with over 7400 miles of railroad tracks inin chicagoland in many running through my district, the safety, the public and rail workers is a paramount matter for me. the fundamental pillar of chicago but also present risks to communities. a couple of weeks ago we lost

that union pacific rail employee named justinde pender and a trac accident and rail yard in my district.di who justin was only 27 years old and was writing a tank car when he was crushed by a passing car. a train. a my thoughts are with his family and friends in the wake of this tragedy. simply put we must do better for our rail workers. we had been when the ntsb east pelting report the findings tell us what we already know. there is a systemic culture of putting profits over the safety of workers and the public. your testimony points to a dramatic decline in the number of real inspections, pressures to reduce inspection times and managers think doctor for evaluations based on how many cars they tag for repairs.

can you explain how these factors contribute to the culture that puts these profits over safety of workers in the public? >> thank you congressman britt yes there is largely a sentiment of the article in my testimony mentioned. but also noted fra recent letter. at notable culture of harassment for managers. you are tasked with getting something out the door as quick as possible. the number of defects starts rising above a certain threshold. whether that's found during inspections or by actual detectors. there is a level or at managemes no more, we are done, no more defects. that is not safe. you cannotoe not find defects anymore that doesn't make them proof go away. they are still there. we have to do something to alter

the process. to alter the ways in which carmen are allowed to go out and inspect things to make sure the trains are adequately checked before they head up the door. but in a broader perspective the psr business model is all about reducing at all times at all cost. all types of things are going to be shortened. where the chore inspections, lacing opposes, all the number of actions that help with my friend mr. hines will piping on this. that his members are harassed to shorten the time as well. none of these are safe we believe the processes have to be addressed. >> thank you. chair of the wheel bearing failed on the east policy train was indicated in an alert it was low priority alert and did not reflect the true condition of

the bering. bearing.in addition to this on e operational responses to bearing alert is an issue in itself. is there a way to improve the accuracy of the alerts? and in your opinion are they empowered too respond to alerts in a way that minimizes risk? >> in this case there is only one person working that desk. at the time norfolk southern had additional personnel. they went down to one another added more personnel. having more personnel could certainly help. with respect to our findings and our recommendations, the biggest recommendation to do research on bearings including railroad responses. thresholds and spacing and then to develop regulations around

that. >> art rail workers empowered to report these things? >> rail workers -- we are currently doing a safety culture assessment of norfolk southern bread that is one of the questions that we have, that we have done a survey of all the norfolk southern employees. weng are looking at the response is not one of the questions we have is are you empowered? do you feel empowered to report unsafe conditions? we are going to have to evaluate that it's not a question i can answer right now. but will return back to you via. >> we will be looking forward and thank you yelled back. quick to judge of an heels i don't recognize mr. williams for five minutes. >> sorry. thank you, mr. chairman and will will nottouch my microphone aga. and thank you all for a very detailed answers and responses.

trying to swim in the middle of all of these facts and details, frankly in the lens of looking at my own community. we are t fortunate to have a significant investment by cs x in my district. that also brings the traffic of the rail lines with it. and so the findings of this committee in your testimony are very important in syracuse, new york and in central, new york. that is really the context that i'm trying to understand. it touches a lot of family in my area. you know, and understand accidents happen. could each of you who can answer this, what is the likelihood of a similar east at palace team type accident, chemical car derailment, fire happening in my

district and alliance in my community? >> congressman, it is hard to answer that exactly. i will say unfortunately we have learned a lot from east palace teen. the railroad industry has learned a lot, not to repeat again the things that did or did not happen there. >> anyone else? i would appreciate any other context. that was very helpful. >> i appreciate that except the ntsb has investigated numerous rail accidents over decades where we have issued recommendations that we have repeated and repeated and repeated withit zero action by e railroad, by regulators, and so yes i cannot quantify a likelihood for number could

occur? it could occur in any of your districts. and we will be there. but again will probably have additional recommendations that we have issued previously. >> is u a follow-up to that, are there any recommendations coming out of this particular accident that habit implemented widely? and that should give my community more confidence in the rail? based on the recommendation. ii understand over perhaps decades many haven't. in this case it sounds like there's been a lot of recommendations that have been implemented. can c you comment on those? >> deputy administration might want take talk about the final role. >> providing information for first responders in the event of an incident that is something congress directed us to do.

but in talking to the firefighters and first responders and to echo the chairwoman's comments earlier they did not have access until after they arrived on scene well after they arrived on scene. but we aren't requiring they get it to the 911 call center cigarettes for first responders so theys have the information ad able to respond the other thing congress has been able to pay attention to multiple bills to phase out emphasize critically at issue can significantly reduce the likelihood of a major incident occurring in your district. phasing out proposed requiring more than 10 years ago but requires congress taking action.

>> if i could just add we issued 34 new safety recommendations as a result of this investigation. none of them have it implemented. several of them have been reiterated we have requested over decades to be addressed rejects congressman put forward we will accept those recommendations have already aly started action onnd this. what legislation will be extremely helpful and build like the one the chairman and congressman introduced in that rankingg member. it's an increase in fines for violations. >> is a bit of an accusatory body but occasionally we are a deliberative body. and so your comments are well received in timely and appreciated the thank you. >> a gentleman yields i don't

recognize who is an original cosponsor. >> think it was richard thank you for calling this and the work on this legislation which is help folks see it's quite bipartisan it is bicameral and we've got to get itt passed. this should not be a partisan fight. this should not be one we cannot come together to pass. i was very encouraging for my counterpart across the border who represent thent people of et palace inst and of course i represent the folks impacted by that derailment. federal representatives who represent those communities who could be any of our communities are in the fight for real safety is for as long as it takes. what i have said all along and i know i'm not alone as i refuse to let my constituents be treated like collateral damage in the way of railroad profits commonsense measures we are debating today i think will go a long way toward making sure they're never treated that way ever again.

the wrist to my district and not hypothetical they are not hypothetical for many others. i commission congressional research report on my district. they live within 5 miles of the tracks and i have to live within a mile. this could happen elsewhere in my district it could happen in plenty of other parts of the country as well. now, it's been nearly a year end a half since this derailment. on the lines of others and i have been told for long times at the railroad could take care of this themselves with their operate more safely. look at the data. according to fra data earlier this year in 2023 happen the first part of 2023. the safety act last march but one of the bills i think maybe former president trump former president biden have supported scott bipartisan support were now building from it. we've got new momentum finally

to get legislation passed. share in the final report we recommend establishing regulations on defect detection systems us in a brute safety enhancement act. is it not? >> yes we recommend for hazardous>> materials through communes likeik mine happens whn trends are properly designated as high hazard that sent legislation, isn't it? i yes might have some technical request on that to further improve it. but doing a great job. >> at the hope for us to have a mark up we can make some of the changes and we do it, thank you. you discussed mr. hines as a well industry average time for qualified mechanical inspectors perform their inspections not enough time for me too make sure workers have sufficient time to perform a proper safety inspections that's in our legislation. mr. heinz, you talked about advocating for two-person crew minimums what can happen if

there were to be one person on the strains? that is in our legislation. my point is got to pass the darn builder provisions in her to keep folks safer, they will make rail safer. give us the ability not to just protect communities but move things were safely on the rails. my constituents out toxic fireball fly over their house after this derailment one that should not of happened. my constituents or neighbors in ohio overlook help their families. the word about their drinking water, the air they breathe, climb to grow their crops on, and congress is yet to pass real safetyty legislation. i don't think momentum question on the line. as secretary buttigieg when he was serious about chair comity, do trust the big worlds directly themselves? >> i do not. >> note. >> note. >> i am not. sure i am qualified

to answer that. >> fair enough. >> conveys a curse word no. absolutely not. >> i'm not sure i heard the question right i cannot hear request you trust the rows directly themselves?o >> do or what? do trust the rules to regard themselves? >> absolutely not. we have one or 50 year record to look at. >> i think i agree with that mr. >> a judgment yields i don't recognize for five minutes go ahead. this is certainly an important hearing is willing to lessen with ahead. this is certainly an important hearing is willing to lessen with what happened. to the administrator, represent the city in the mountains of california. recent years there have been multiple derailments are the local authorities have received notification about these in a

timely manner. what is been done for the local authorities know about local derailments when they occur? in notification. in terms of notification on a derailment the railroad company is responsible for communicating that the national response center. obviously emerge responders local folks depending on the type of material that is on the train there is supposed be advanced notification of the type of material that is on the train. that emergency responders in thd the state has an idea of that.

>> depend on the material i understand that was w something highly flammable they are required to notify the state emergency response commission. there is a certain turnaround time they have to do that in? >> i can jump in here. last month the emergency responders there required to notify immediately and were asked electronically and communicate that information to the first responders. and there required key paper copies as well. so first responders can access that perez is nonhazardous materials is there a specific deadline? >> forgot to defer to us we only

deal hazardous materials. >> it depends on the level of derailment. could you spell that out? where the shades of derailment? >> multiple cars involved. material important there is a roadway involved obviously there are houses nearby and schools and hospitals. it depends upon the situation. this should be automatic notification. notification the local community should work with the railroad. >> yes the progress okay, thank you.

>> i yield back. >> are judgment yields a record has mr. johnson for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to the witnesses for your testimony today. they are renowned for him when the most extensive rail networks in theos world. the immense responsibility to ensure the safety and efficiency of the rail system. tragically a recent incident in east palisade is a stark reminder of the devastating consequences of falling short of our obligations. this disaster wreaks havoc on the environment and placed countless lives at grave risk. what we have made some strides tosu elevator safety measures through historic investments in

the bipartisan infrastructural law, the number of rail incidents in 2023 surpass those in 2022. showing the issue is not improving. it is clear that much more work needs to be done to address the vulnerabilities in our railroads. we must take decisive action for a safe reliable and robust great in passenger rail network while communities that truly lives up to its extensive reputation. co brotherhood of railway car men division represents approximately 10 car men nationwide. these assure compliance with safety standards but face time

pressures that impact their ability to prioritize safety effectively. can you please elaborate on some of the most critical safety components that are often neglected due to time pressure? >> sure. >> thank you congressman. one of the problems we are looking for and a big key component you are looking at the broken wheels and flanges the little part of the steel wheel that keeps the train on the track. bearings which do have a physical visual indication across the truck same components. you are looking at couplers pins all the safety appliances that make sure that mr. heinz numbers can safely operate the train when they are out there

delivering freight. they don't fall off a ladder or use the handbrake. they are all number of components so they don't have enough time to ever actually get to. most. some of the time the row words are putting them on atvs to drive alongside at the train. how much of the detailed inspection does that provide for? >> how does the inability to perform full inspections specifically impact the safety and well-being of railroad workers? >> it's pretty -- when you're trying to do something as our president likes to say this is the only career he's ever heard of where they hire you to do a job in and they fire you want to try to do it. it's a very strange thing that

is detailed throughout a lot of the articles that are then written and what i'm here today trying to get congress to pass this legislation to improve the lives of the workers so they can continue. if i can jump in terms of inspection qualified inspections are the gold standard of inspections. they are certain situations whereth other craft and mr. heiz is at the table represents conductors in their certain that can do inspections but they should be done on the limited basis in special circumstances. that should not be the norm in terms of inspections. >> if i could follow-up an what we have been referring to as the loophole is part of the regulation predeparturef inspection that allows for a conductor to be able to go and inspect the trains but that's

designed for when you are out of the network picking picking up freight. use regs are written in the 80s and they've been minorly updated but they are class 1 and now they are six. that era when you're 33 were getting inspections had every single interchange of now we don't have that many interchanges so it's a whole different process and a whole different operation out there but pretty got to improve inspections on this legislation would do that. >> bankunited dillbeck. the gentleman yield tonight recognize mr. banwart was also a sponsor of this legislation. >> thank you mr. chairman terry like all the people on the panel who work on the class to be standup. the nsf union pacific and

canadian national were invited and they aren'ted here. that is not okay. the little a little town called de soto wisconsin had flooding in the cold on the 21st of april and i said i'm distinctly uncomfortable with the conditions of the tracks due to the flooding of the river in the nsf patted me on the head on the phone and said don't worry mr. carson we do this every year in six days later on the 27th several cars were full of pain batteries and needless to say we don't have a past relationship at this point. railroads have to understand one thing they are not in entity and into their own and they have gotten out of control theory

irresponsible and they are not receptive to any type of input that i have seen and it's got to stop. i'm a retired navy s.e.a.l. senior chief of what that means is seals have is when but he in the toe you you'll have one guy to train that's a nonstarter. so that's to argue that and i don't have a beef with the guys but you need to people on the trains and it's unacceptable. i want to thank mr. bozen miss hum and deeper being so responsive. you guys are johnny on the spot or janie on the spot and i appreciate that it's. maam going to ask as anyone then fired or assigned counsel are demoted due to the massive preventable errors that took

place in east palestine >> not that i'm aware of but i might not be aware. >> i'm not aware of any. >> maam you have repeatedly stated that your agency has repeatedly given very specific safety recommendations to the reverence and that they are you off. is that correct? >> we currently have 17 open rail safety recommendations to norfolk seven alone and eight to all class when the roads and several of them havero a been od for many years so over a week at 215 open rail safety recommendations many of which have been ignored. >> the railroads by ignoring your safety recommendations and

putting colleagues at risk along with the vast majority of my constituentsty so my grandkids r them live three blocks away from the rover tracks and i want to be super clear i love the railroads and if you l don't loe the roads you don't let them because we have trains going through all the time and know the difference in east palestine what took place in de soto as they were plo at the time so that would have beenat my grandkids so we have to come to a place where these were a roads understand that they must be responsive to to your agencies and do you have any type of recourse? >> we do not. fra has authority however. >> and what does that mean? >> congressman that means when we find violations or noncompliance of the regulations the issue of lines -- we issue a

fine and we settle those lines. they have inability to object and we reach a settlement. >> would you do me a favor and get me a list of those? >> yes sir when we complete the process we absolutely will. >> the settlement come to find are settled. they can be settled for pennies on the dollar. >> i want to see the actual numbers that you submitted because we are doing this anymore. the rare word p needs to be putn check and that's a we are doing but not to thank the chairman for his leadership on this [bell ringing] happy to be an original co-sponsor and the original for the real inspector safety act which came from a direct recommendation by you, man. keep up the good work that i appreciate it. i yield back. >> if i could say one thing to the congressman.

the time of the chairman has expired. >> aladdin answer the gentleman. >> thank you for bringing up the issue repeatedly on the need for more inspectors on the field. we need more on the beat. we need to be more efficient when things imagine my testimony is the gregorius nature of writing a violation for one single violation and if you look through the study 1400 defects found in 47 violations in every single one of those defects is affectionately effectively violation. it takes it out of the field and staff is where there's a mountain of paperwork and they take himro away from where they are needed out in the field. when we have something like we have for a police officer riding a ticket writing a parking ticket or speeding ticket making it more efficient and givess it teeth for the to need to be out there. >> right on.

>> bitumen deals and we now recognize ms. o'shea for five minutes. >> thank you we appreciate you being here. the ntsb report found 25% of the cars and trains that derail in east palestine contained defects even though federal regulations required the train must have no defects before it's allowed to depart. unfortunately a recent study found inspection times averaged a shockingly low 22 seconds per side for each rail car that over 14% of the brakes are defective while the train is operating. administrator bos why are they allowed to operate operate trains that don't meet federal safety standards and what consequences should roll roads

traced the don't meet safety standards. >> congressman thank you for the question. first of all rows are expected to have inspection say testing and maintenance programs to ensure compliance with fra regulations. fra monitors for compliance with federal safety requirements and we pursue enforcement action when necessary. we do issue civil penalties anytime we find noncompliance. >> i've been made aware a that digital inspection quarters utilizing ai art tested by number fornu a roads pin your testimony you acknowledged the technology has the capacity to improve rail safety and increase the effectiveness of inspections if used properly. where it do you stand on these technologies and what they help minimize the risk of accidents like the ones that occurred in

the east palestine? and thank you congresswoman. yes as mentioned in my testimony there a number of technologies out there that exist at the roll roads are either lightly deploying or testing testing org improperly such as these visual inspection portals. these are big a camera rings thy have high-speed cameras today capture hundreds of thousands of images per second and then use machine vision, machine learning to try to identify defects. but we would like to see an industry is that information be given directly to a car man in the yard as the train is coming in so they have, imagine ipad your wrist and you are sitting there saying i had defectse in cars one, 10, 20 etc.. unfortunately that's not what's happening right8, now.

the camera rings that are deployed are being used to discipline the cars after-the-fact so after the train departs so in essence what i'm trying to get across is they are simultaneously restricting down the time that a car man can inspect cars and disciplining them on the back end using the fancy tools but even the companies that built these things are telling the railroad's this is not how it's meant to be deployed so we'd like to see some improvements there. contrary to some folks labor unions are against technology.ns we want it to be used correctly so we want to have access to defect to check and networks and data and the that type of data and the rest of the data that the defect detectors catch throughout the country. lastly i will say these

railroads are very short-staffed with the exception i think of the one you've visited. i would say they are doing quite good. everybody else has one guy looking at the entire network defect detectors, one guy. three including those coming in saying e high-fives here, are looking at this imaging. it's not a realistic concept to expect oneo individual at any oe point to look at it in tiger and nation or an entire network of defect detectors. is currentlyology unregulated and unfortunately used palestine as a result of allowing the programs to self-regulate. there are no work are meant for

ci enhanced technology too be deployed or how it's used or who should be interpreting the data. as this technology continues to develop and be implemented what types of regulations or safeguard should there be putuln place to ensure the railroads are maximizing the effectiveness of this technology and thereby increasingol railway safety. >> thank you. two things, will all these detectors we don't believe we should be allowed to turn them off first and foremost and thickly with regards to the fancy camera portals rethink the imaging is best place in the hands of the people that know what to to do is it so the qualified mechanical inspectors, the regulatory term for carmen.

these people spend their entire lives looking at the pics on cables and they are able to have this ai driven technology direct in her hands it would be much and efficient and it would make the entire network safer but we have to have regulation and laws to do that. >> thank you mr. chairman dillbeck. the gentleman lady yields and i recognize mr. thompson. >> thank you mr. chairman. palestine was obviously a tragedy in the wake of tragedy so many of us feel a need that we have got to do something in the course all decisions have trade-offs is one of the rules of the universe and our regulations impose costs on consumers that prudence and wisdom and want to make sure that which we do improves life for society. so i want to spend a little time thinking about what is the right

path forward for you chair homendy and most think it's a pretty good piece of work you all did. how would you prioritize this and what legislative approach would you most likely prioritize? >> for legislation? >> yes. >> i would prefer as a legislative body there are many recommendations that we have issued over a number of years. one in particular pod 11110 and there is accident in last year bellsouth to code it involving d.o.t. and 2015 and here we have recommended since 1991 and no action hasce been taken so we he additional areas that we would recommend the actions be taken. >> is specifically among the 34

recommendations relate to legislative activity which of those would you most highly protected x and aggressive phaseout of the d.o.t. at 111 safeguard common expansion of the phaseout of d.o.t. 11110 cars in all hazardous material service, locomotive were reporters; action taken by the committee for the faa bill for reporters. we would recommend that hears and no action has been taken. and there a number of areas. >> a couple of things that were not an airport is limiting. links and two-man crews, two-person crews. they were not included why? the cost of the derailment was a failed bearing. it wasas the 9300-foot train and it was not a factor in the derailment. >> not directly involved in the

tragedy. >> correct. >> administratoror bose turningo you as the chair just mentioned overheated bearings created an axle separation. have we've seen railroad's install i detectors since this tragedy? >> they have been installed with detectors. two episodes of what kind of pace that installation moves that? >> and norfolk so in case it was sped up and they have deployed more of them. in other railroad cases is railroad by railroad. the technology with detectors in the spacey between detectors in the distance between detectors is something to rebel companies are paying attention to an congressman one more part of that it's not just deploying, to training around that in the maintenance, the operation and

when the information comes in to have itn properly resourced at the desk level and disseminating that information in a timely manner andmiha the threshold, te threshold for important on what set off alerts. >> one of the ntsb recommendations is for the fra to further investigate bearing defect detection systems. is that they fra's intention to do so and where are we at? >> congressman>> yes, and we ar. >> any additional detail you could provide? >> we've been working on that pivotal railroad safety advisory committee come a committee a committee be reinvigorated under this administration a body for consensus drives today and we are comfortable that there can be a productive product that comes out of that. here's a range of detectors.

>> i'm trying to get a timeline here and i understand we are looking looking at three-month, six-month, ten-month? >> i can't commit to an exact timeframe. we are moving expeditiously on it. let me tell it. let me tell you something of congressmen you are talking about regulation. we have proposed five regulations in recent years. four of them are in litigation or reconsideration. when you talk about the industry and you talk about timing and talk about regulation, we need to build and the opposition that we get from the industry when we tried to do productive things. >> mr. chair i yield back. >> thank you. i recognize mr. menendez for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman thank you to our witnesses today for your testimony on the sobering insight of the safety of rail. the derailment in palestine forced thousands of residents

whoic evacuated them fortunately an event can happen like that at any time. that's why we care so deeply that how we move forward. railroads operate in high hazard and hh up to's traveling thursday. if the train derailed in east palestine did notid bet they description and was not subject to the same i regulations as hh st. trainl merchandise sometimes carry hazardous materials of various kinds. chair this homendy did they pose a risk to the environment? >> yes. >> expanding a good expanding

the scope of hazardous materials subject to increase safety regulations prevent future tragedies like the one east palestine? >> absolutely. spring absolutely. spring had only entered the state and local emergency response officials are informed and prepared to handle hazardous materials traveling through their state even if the train is classified as a general merchandise train? >> they need to be prepared. they need information on what's going through their community which we havee recommendations n an and something we have worked recently and they need gear. they need radio interoperability and they need training training. >> the training i think is one of theg largest items. the community they are involved in and ideally that you are not dealing with an breakaway if ever and ensuring assure members move through they have to have

access to that trying to ensure at any given moment they are prepared to handle a situation. >> your testimony goes into detail about the fra investigation class 1 safety inspection practices and how they respond to alarms that your members have been sounding forg years. in contrast to many class 1 claims that safety is the number oneai priority. how can we ensure that if in fact this is their number one priority that they stick -- despite whether there's a change in administration and whether time has faded and what happened in east palestine which never should, how can we work together to ensure that we are always creating the safest in class experience for not just the operatives that the communities that they operate through?

>> thank you congressman. it's a big question. one first and foremost statute in passing this legislation would be a huge step in the right direction regulations annoys the challenge. it's a little bit more cemented in permits when you have a lot to say that this is how it had to be fromow now on the first ad foremost i would say pass the bill. senate bill or chair noel still. we have a lot of things we can do in this industry and in a large sense of the railroads need to be compelled to getet there. as we or most of us mentioned earlieras the railroads don't do things on their own accord. somebody have to drag them into it so it's a industry practice but it's long been outweighed by their it's defect detectors new

inspection system, new technologies that are being tested that we see all the time. somehow he could make the industry wildly safer. we need to get there and we need legislation to push the industry in the right direction both for the benefit of my members and every single community that our trains roll through. none of us want to see another east palestine god forbid. we need to have safety first point line seven right now the psr t era. >> i agree with you completely. what i know about laws c as they can make itke stronger. we need to keep our communities safe and keep workers safe and ensure that safety is a member one-party not after a tragedy that every single day. thank you i yield back. >> the gentleman yields.

>> thank you mr. chairman thank you to all of our witnesses for being hereth today. chair homendy want to say privately what i said publicly thank you for your detailed and thorough investigation on the east palestine. i'm glad we are having this hearing on the east palestine to real that i want to commend the chairman in particular for holding this hearing at the right time and that is after the investigations have been complete have been complete in reports have been published rather than ble beforehand as my called for. it's better to have all of the facts to them to rely on speculation and an educated guess but now that we do have the facts and reports in hand i want to revisit some of the initial assertions. how multiple occasions in the weeks after thecc durr secretary pete buttigieg an electronically controlled pneumatic ec.

arguing the rule's return in the wake of the drama. chair homendy you said early on investigation as roe had no bearing on the east palestine derailment but did anything in your investigation change that? >> what i stated was ecp breaks have no bearings on this investigation and what happened in east palestine. >> thank you but in fact he labeled secretary buttigieg is assertion on the rule is misinformation. even after secretary buttigieg continue toti insist that this s a change needed to prevent another derailment like what we saw in eastge palestine. chair homendy doesn't doesn't make a job easier or harder when someone in a position of authority like the transportation secretary makes a policy perception even after being fact checked to?

>> actually at the time i was agreeing with him because he was talking about improving rail safety and he was talking about ecp breaks because people brought up that they should have the d.o.t. implement the rule on the brakes and they didn't have the regulatory authority and i was agreeingho with him on that. >> in your public tweet on february 16, 2023 you say some are sayingom the ecp implemented what what would prevent it does derailment and here's why. he went on to say which leads me to my last point anyone speculating about what didn't happen should it happen or didn't happen is misleading and please stop the information. and i was referring to the secretary. >> okay thank you andnd in the w earlier talked about the need to go to war the d.o.t. 111 tank cars. you believe there is

manufacturing capacity to meet an earlier deadline and should that be accelerated? >> i'm not an expert on the manufacturing capacity of the fra since then is look at the manufacturing capacity for the tank cars and whether they can be her place. t >> anyone else like to comment on the manufacturing capacity is the issue these mandates to phase out her face in certain things but we don't always look the manufacturing capacity to make sure the markets have the ability to comply. isre there anyone? >> if i cann weigh in. the rail car industry has indicated that there there is ae potential capacity to accelerate the deadline for finishing the phase out the d.o.t. 111 cars potentially up to a year earlier. we think that's the best data that's available right now. >> thank you mr. chairman i yield back.

>> thank you. i. now recognize ms. sykes who i believe is an original sponsor of this legislation. >> legislation. >> thank you mr. chairman yes i am note to say thank you to ranking member wilson for holding this hearing today in allowing me to join you. as you all know it's been a year since the norfolk southern train derailment completely up-ended the east palestine committee. it borders my district and after a year empty excuses and several requests formp s my office and police and people of east palestine we finally have a hearing on rail safety. however i'm disappointed to see today that the witness table is missing a representative from norfolk southern state entities responsible for getting us together today. last month the transportation safety board held a hearing to share the findings will cause some policy recommendations from a year and a half long investigation to the drama.ti this investigation confirmed the

ai drama andse of the is a suspected wheel bearing that was overheated. we also provided detailed on how to address safety and thank you for that chair homendy and i want to take a moment to say thank you. why was excited to hear ntsb was successful in causing the recall is that this disastrous derailment i was particularly concerned with the contents of chairwoman homendy's closing remarks of the board hearing. he detailed the startling pattern of manipulation to something towards investigators in disregard for basic investigator ethics they raise serious questions about a the motives and actions during and after the the derailment pitcher almond homendy could you please detail the unusual behavior exhibited by norfolk southern during investigation have you ever witnessed things like this before in your investigation?

>> we have not. this is unprecedented. norfolk southern open and transparent in providing informationfo we requested whene requested it many times delays regarding our investigators here today timely information in an the investigation but i had to call them about issuing subpoenas but m couldn't get timely information manufactured evidence that has nothing to do with this drill might and try to include it in the record of our investigation. when our investigative -- investigator in charge told them no three times here today they went around our investigator in charge and w tried to get our general counsel to prove that who also denied them but then they came through by presidential appointees including me asking us to overrule our investigator in charge and direct him to include evidence that was asked to not evidence from this derailment in our investigation.

i could continue on but it was unprecedented. they apologize and have committed to notco do that to nt have norfolk southern do that again because we had 11 open investigations involving norfolk southern. four of those are still open including a safety culture investigation so we still have to work with them but but this commandment will be taken seriously and if i sense that we go back to what was heard in east palestine i'm going to hold them accountable. >> thank you madam chairwoman and hopefully this committee will do so as well. it's clear through your investigation official questions have been raised about the actions of norfolk southern and it's norfolk southern anthem. the i people at the opportunityo hear from allen shaw present ceo of norfolk southern in order to to apologize and half of his

company to the american people particularly the folks in east palestine. i hope mr. chairle that mr. shaw will be called before the full infrastructure safety committee on the derailment in palestine and the ntsb investigation in the future and we have a letter to request that. they must additionally assure the rail is held fully accountable foror their actions across the political spectrum. we all agree on this from the biden/harris of administration in previous efforts to honor the of people and pass rail safety legislation. i'm glad to partner with the chairman and others on the railroad safety enhancement act and this will help in many the things we talked about in the real safety act but one

provision that's not in this act that it wasn't a real act as the requirement that the safety record of the tankers which we heard an lot about. i know i'm shortot on time and d like to get this in writing. madam chairwoman i want to take an extra second to thank you team for being steadfast and unwilling toha wait for a and i thank you from the bottom off my heart on the half of the people in ohio. >> thank you so much and thank you for your leadership on safety. >> i recognize mr. molinaro for five minutes. >> i want to thank you for being here and for today's hearing. obviously many of us watch what occurred in east palestine thinking what if it was our community and the impact on the citizens in their communities but to those of usus who represt

the cities and towns and villages with similar rail traffic i. i represent binghamton new york and was not only concerned about wondered if it could happen our new thread. the disaster in east palestine you acknowledge was caused by of issues and my colleagues have gonemy for good number than today. one of frightens me in the aftermath and still concerns me today is a lack of communication and coordination between layers of governments response and of course the company itself. chair homendy first thank you and the ntsb for your tremendous amount of work and i appreciate the chairman's commitment to getting this information and report them in the investigation completed so he can before. i want to speak directly to the controlled burn and what ntsb found. could you speak to the timeline for communications for deciding

when the controlled burn should have occurred as briefly as he could. >> that was a decision not by ntsb. >> course. >> conversations from our investigation and conversations related to the burn from norfolk southern as contractors and oxy by mouth shippers oxy vinyl shippers and it was seen on the fifth and already on the fifth norfolk southern had begun to bring equipment in the for incident command or the governor had signed off onn it. >> norfolk southern makes the determinate against -- the determination against the likely outcome and women who made the final decision to move forward with the controlled burn? >> the information was provided

to the incident commander in the incident commander is a fire chief of east palestine but you make your decisions based on complete information and unfortunate norfolk southern withheld critical information from him in the governor that could have led to a safer decision. >> having 30 years involved with local emergency responses of volunteerr fire, member of my volunteer fire department department in the last 12 years and emergency management i know the incident commander makes the decision but i clearly and it's clear to us that individual was forced into making decisions absent some information. we believe that individual and nine just and officially responsibility do we believe that individual made that decision or was expected to make that decision? >> individual did make the decision however at the time there was a false sense of urgencyy that norfolk southern

end of contractors created. you can see it throughout the documentation you can see it in the news releases that were issued that were just not w factually correct based on temperatures that were already falling and stabilizing on most tank cars. unfortunately they were misled in their decision-making and in and norfolk southern gave the incident commander and the governor 13 minutes to make that final decision in the incident commander was asked to go through the information over and over again and finally had to make the decision but it was based on an based on an accurate and complete information. >> going back to the emergency response as emergency response is supposed to be led by emergency responders and no-no's premier report he further to the lack of information and restore sharing at the emergency responsese level. whether or not those first

responders have the adequate information to immediately respond with information me too available to them. can you touch on ntsb's recommendations for ensuring first responders have greater access to and are prepared to respond quick snack we have issued recommendations for a number of years regarding rail train system information or train information for merchants to responders which the pipeline and hazardous materials safety of administration art issued a final rule on but in addition to that we saw the need to highlight in a recommendation training especially for volunteer firefighters and radio interoperability for first responders. >> thank you chair and mr. chair when i know i'm over my time but it's i just want to say since 9/11 in 2001 we talked about

interoperability and shared plantation we have failedon significantly. it's a problem that hamstrings emergency response. gemini elves -- the gentleman yields. across l the country we have sen trains grow in length and it's amazing to me trains can be up to four miles long. i wonder if he would comment on that and are those trains safe and does the federal government have a larger role to play especially those carrying hazardous materials? anybody who is then blocked by a train would say a four-mile long train is a problem. for obvious reasons. they cut cities and have especially rural communities. when these train stop in that city that town is cut in half

the emergency vehicles, if you have a heart attack need to get to the hospital and some the other side of the trainn oh well so as far as how obvious it is that it's a bad idea, it creates so much more force because trains are so much heavier and they are longer and brill would think if they put distributed power in the middle of the train we are good to go. what they don't report on and what's not collected is how often the knuckles break the knuckles is called thehe cars together and the drawbars get pulled out. this happens regularly. another thing that would require two people. you have to have an engineer and conductor and a a lot of this the stuff but it's just so strange to me that they want

bigger and bigger with instead of running to trains but they are combining them into one train just by connecting them or even three trains or more. and that the realm that numbers don't go down even though they are running fewer trains and longer trains in the tournament numbers don't gomb down. it's not a good idea but i don't want to take all of your time. >> congresswoman may i ask we investigated the tragedy involving to trains a standing train in a moving train in granite canyon wyoming in 2018 in a town to link the train and it was an issue. at last breaking capabilities emergency breaking capabilities as a cressida hillam went down and descended 13 miles. it was increasing in speed all the while the train crews were i tryingra to get breaking back ad

put on the emergency breaking and in the endnd the train hit 55 miles an hour and slammed into a standing train of the locomotive engineer and in the conductor both died. we found in one of our findings was the length of the train was a factor and it was 103 cars. >> congresswoman encino there had been federal regulations that restricts trains. at far end of my watch we make sure to collect data about the train length so the processes more transparent. having said that we are not waiting for the data to come in. we issued a safety advisory on train length and issued a safety advisory on the makeup of the trains because that also factors into it. we are taking the actions that we can under the authority that we have to address the

situation. communities are experiencing this and we are not sitting idly by. >> would you impose federal regulation? >> based on the data we are gathering right now i think we should definitely take a look at it. >> and you said it so obvious. speakingus of regulation fra finalize an important rule of the two-man crew. i think these things go together and i've been searching for a two-man crew for several years now and it's somewhere in limbo out there and we want to see a two-man crew is a bipartisan issue. the administrator would you comment on that?

>> congresswoman thank you for asking that question. i'm proud to be the most richer they got the final roll done on crew size but it's a significant step forward for saving the railroad safety and without that rule railroads could go to one person or below without that rule in place so it's an important step forward. i also know we have been talking about you spell a steam. i'm confident saying that community and the people who represent east palestine are much better knowing there's more than one person where there was more than one person on the crew. spend the gentlelady yields and i now recognize the original sponsor of the legislation. >> thank you mr. chairman. mr. arouca carmen often have to

switch components due to time constraints. with up to 15% of rail cars found to contain the fix houses limiting inspection time affect the safety of rail as ay whole? >> i would say and thank you for your question congressman. i would say as much as we talked about it today you can't put a time constraint on safety. he do that people are going to miss things no matter who is inspecting the cars but it's also important make sure the right person is inspecting the car. i'm not sure if you were here earlier. these are the regulations that the car men are held to the standards that they are held to. it's night and day in the amount and the level the regulatory standard. if you ask anyone to be

inspected to fast they are going to miss things so the obvious. >> if i missed i apologize but can you discuss or share with us any specific instances where an adequateny inspection time has possibly lead to an accident or a near miss? >> that would be hard for me to disclose because of the confidential nature of those things are but i assure you i have plenty of stories but i wouldn't want to talk about them. a >> and d now can you describe wt the effect of limiting the inspection time has on the workers and the morale? >> it's incredibly depressing. as i mentioned earlier imagine being hired to do a job and being told not to do it. it's very. you trained all your life for this and you three years, 732 working days to go from an apprentice carmen to a journeyman and when you get there they say if you find

defects we are going to discipline you. no more defects, no morgue effects of a target on your back and it's not necessarily for finding a defect. your shoe is untied i've heard of guys getting written up for changing their hat over to a safety helmet. wiping your safety glasses really just petty stuff but that's what happens when you have a target on your back and you don't fall in line. >> you mentioned in your testimony they conducted a study that found when inspectors were were -- carmen average one minute 44 seconds per car inspection however when not present car men were only given 44 seconds per car to inspect. what measure do you think could be implemented to ensure safety

practices? >> he could pass this law that would make it illegal to prohibit to enforce any time constraint on carmen as i said before you can put a time constraint on safety but i will also note in the fra study they were remarks from specific fra inspectors where they talked about how -- the fra inspectors walked behind a carmen doing his job and they found a bunch of defects, 10, 17 whatever combined between the two of them on the train and then he looks at the fra inspector pulled up the record is that railroad and in the previous 24 hours they only found three the whole day. it's just not realistic and it's not the truth. something is nhe going on and ts type of legislation has been a long time coming.

>> congressman if i could step in as an fra administrating what mr. arouca isin talking about is absolutely unacceptable. any time the fra sees that a row road is gaming the system and gaming the inspection process where we have oversight we are going to take action on that. there was a row for the found outul about our safety culture assessment of questions we are going to ask in that assessment and as soon as we found out we look to that safety culture assessment of that railroad and made it clear that it's unacceptable. my time has expiredr. mr. chairn i yield back. >> the gentlemanld yield. any further questions from the members of the t subcommittee seeing none we have votes here. this concludes our hearing for today. i want to thank each and everyone you for being here and i thought this was a veryou productive meeting and this subcommittee stands adjourned.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> good morning. >> hi everyone i want to welcome everyone today. i'm a family medicine physician -- physician and medical director of health on one assembly are a new abortion clinic in the northern virginia region. we are happy that all became today. we know that the second gentleman understands the crisis that we are in the the reproductive health care crisis we have in our country and he recognizes how important it is and that's why he has come to join us today. thank you so much for coming to join us. take it away. >> thank you and thank you all for being here.

secretary l. be introducing you in a second but it was important for me to be here today. i just wanted to make sure we have this on the schedule because this is so important, this issue and the fact that you were able to open this clinic in this environment, this post dobbs environment speaks very loudly and very clearly on protecting women, protecting freedom, protecting autonomy, protecting the right to make decisions about ones own body without the government interfering. and i heard about a lot of the challenges even opening in virginia, which was a little shocking to the secretary and myself. landlords were saying no and the challenges of just getting this place open is really disturbing.

recognize that this clinic does provide abortion services but it also provides health care services, services that women need, services that they are not able to get anywhere else but for clinic like this and planned parenthood clinics around the country. i know my wife was very proud and honored to be the first vice president ever that visited a planned parenthood facility and there she started talking about what they do in health care services that are so desperately needed in the screenings and all these things that women need for family planning. i two years since the extremist dobbs decisions which took away a fundamental right to that had been on the books for 50 years.

they took it away. from the people of the united states and what we have seen as of full-blown crisis. the crisis that is affecting millions upon no use of our fellow citizens and i live in texas which is one of the states essentially there's a total ban for doctors and we can talk more about that and penalties including jail time. we've seen the stories of women who had to literally be on deaths door before they got treatment. it's barbaric, it's and it needs to change. the fact that you all open this clinic here in virginia even when the challenges says a lot about who you you are is a doctor and as a person.

.. troubling the country for two years speaking truth about how horrific it is. it's not just about freedom. on behalf of the vice president who is been traveling the country tirelessly for two years , just speaking truth. truth about how terrific this dobbs decision is. it is not about reproductive freedom. what else. what else based on this policy can we come after. contraception, who you can marry , who you can love.

that is why we are here today to support you, to hear your stories. with that, i will turn it over to my very good friend. >> to the second gentleman for the commitment of d time. we've had a chance to do a number of events together over time. i know that this is one issue where you have concentrated your efforts. certainly, the vice president has been the leader within this administration of healthcare for women, reproductive health care, abortion care. we thank you for making that commitment, generally. even in states that gail -- still give women the rights unde reason is so important because

not just access to abortion care but in general and losing access to care we are putting at risk their lives in from the state of texas we don't believe anyone diminish, we don't think they are surviving, we don't want to go back but that is where we are and that's why it's been very exotic. we must restore the rights that we have.

we are creating all of those in the think we will have the second gentlemen forget. perhaps you will story. >> i was an abortion provider for about five years. became illegal at one time and stayed for a little while and there was a case resident not

doing this anymore. when they ask you for that, they don't need to like and they get on a plane and that is breaking my hippocratic oath and not going to do this. i left and i didn't know it was going to work and i found out that it is incredibly hard and from the ground up now that i'm here, they are pulling from all over the country. coming from unities every now

and then and then we come back and i was doing really good job and it went well for them but what did all those people have? i knew i would put myself in a place and build out that access. one of the things i see when it was overturned there are more abortions. you know what's going to happen. you may decide abortion right now.

i had so many patients i was shocked tommy after abortion, federal if i would have done this if this was an illegal. maybe i would have made it into the pregnancy, baby the pregnancy is what i want. none of this did what they thought it would. may the entire situation worse, the ripple effect and it will continue to happen. >> in these complaints what they are entitled to give us the story.

the public health letter the senior medical in the clinical trial and i'm really fortunate and the provider was right there in chicago and because of that, i not only had screening and i worry they will not have the opportunity i had years of. it is unconscionable.

>> thank you so much. pre-student, things are very different and how out front of open. also is a live physician and a network, i really saw abortion controlling the narrative so i made a personal decision in addition to delivering high quality is going to address head

on the statement. december 2022 site announced my practice. ... such a wonderful learning experience because my name, my face was website. i'm very proud about what i do. i deliver first trimester abortion care fight alongside comprehensive family medicine managing anxiety, diabetes, sprained ankles. not because of looking to atone for the abortion care i provide but to demonstrate this care is incredibly safe and it is broadly needed across every reproductive demographic in this

country. since we've opened we have served not only families in richmond, virginia, but from all over the country. folks have taken the first plane ride to get an abortion with me in richmond, virginia. that come from texas, wisconsin, florida. one of the things they tell us again and again is the actually chose our clinic because of her website, because my face was there, my name. there's a lot of unknown around abortion care. it's been unsafe for abortion providers to be upfront about what they're doing and it takes a really seriously. the payoff here is folks know they're coming to see some of the looks like she could be there sister or their friend. it's really just wonderful to see the relief on peoples faces. i hope of the family doctor in this country realizes at minimum to have the skills needed to provide abortion by pill and if we all provide it opened in our clinics, and takes with all the pop out of the counter argument for abortion care. >> great point. sonata the director of our

office for civil rights at the department of health and human services, melody. >> thank you, mr. secretary, sacajawea. among officers who worked at the is department health and human services. my deputy bricks of rights and health care and to protect medical privacy. so those are two pretty big jobs especially right now, thanks to the leadership of secretary and vice president harris we and around the country having conversations with patients and providers and students and advocates, at a lot of those stories stick with me at night and sugar stick with the vice president and the secretary and the second gentleman. they don't go away. hearing someone say they couldn't get care, they had to in the car with with the bt more is pretty barbaric. that's why i'm so proud were able to do all the work we're doing. as some of you i shared my story earlier this year. i was privileged enough to ivf. i became pregnant with twins. i know some is make a face. i suffered a miscarriage, it's

awful. then i was fortunate enough to have safe legal abortion care in maryland. at no point in the process was i worried my medical records with your weaponized against me. at no point was i worried that i was going to be shame for the care that i received. and, in fact, i was doing this on working on regulations to help women all across the country whether it's the civil rights or through privacy to protect them. that story needs to be shared because miscarriage is a very, healthcare, and it is healthcare. women across the country it happens to them everyday. it's so important for women like me to uplift that's right because there are women across the country who do not get to share their story, who do not get the opportunity to sit in tables like this and let that opportunity. that's why i'm so grateful we put out a rule earlier this year under this president and this vice president leadership to show medical records for being weaponized to hurt patients. when women seek lawful reproduction health care, people cannot going fishing expeditions into the records, that they feel safe with a talk to the doctor.

they know the doctor is 90 information. another doctor will would y can to protect them. when i need follow-up care even if i have to travel somewhere i feel safe going into emergency room or to a clinic to get that care. we all know healthcare so important to women everywhere and we know making sure your privacy is protected is critically important at the moment. so thank you to you stack to burst out of for allowing us the space to do this. it's important and appreciate the opportunity. >> we have a bit of time. we have little time. i'll ask you to chime in that give any thoughts would like to get the second gentleman in. >> thank you all for sharing your stories. i know it's hard to do it and i know it's rushing. but where we hear? we are here because of the former president. the former president who ran on a platform that one, when it should be punished, those words came out of his mouth, and they

talked about nominating supreme court justices that would overturn roe v. wade. and that's exactly what he wanted and that's exactly what he got. so let's be honest here. this is on the former president, the guy who wants to run for president get a platform of taking is us backwards. this is a perfect example of just taking us backwards. and you talked about, , like my mother, same thing. when i heard the news about dobbs, the first person to call it was vice president and she said, and we knew it was coming but it was such a shock. she said, ducky, the actually did it. the actually did it. she was enraged. click wishes on done the last few years. next message i got was from my been 23 old daughter, now 25 saying i'm angry. we need to fight. dad, you need to do something

about this. next one was my mother who is in her '80s, she was one of those women who is fighting for reproductive freedom and equal rights. her anger right now, to think as you mentioned, that she has enjoyed a right that she fought for that was just ripped away that my daughter, our daughter cannot enjoy. it's completely antithetical to the we are as a country, we were supposed on allies going ford and not backwards. that's what we need to do frankly in this upcoming election, go forward. >> i had a few comments because my mother has been an advocate for reproductive rights her entire life. she died in 2020, and in some ways i'm glad she didn't see dobbs. she would've an absolutely appalled. we went on marches with her with our kids.

we assume this was a right that we would be able to maintain, and it's horrifying that it isn't. >> let me ask something because you came from texas. as i've traveled a expect the second jump as we heard the stories i was in idaho where to are provided who were leaving idaho because they don't believe that they can exercise, as you said, the full rights and the privileges they have gained as a result of -- do you think there are other providers, doctors like you, were leaving states' rights are restricted? and if so, what does that do for the patients who can't leave the state for the rights are restricted? >> yes, there are absolutely other physicians leaving. i know some have chosen to stay sort of do what they can but is not just abortion providers that are leaving. it's other physicians as well. i've heard of an oncologist who's leaving texas. before dobbs, about three years

ago i had a patient who had a broken arm and he refused to set or do anything because she was pregnant. i had to do abortion was she still had a bone sticking out of her arm. that was before it became illegal. i had a patient -- also before. i had a patient die of metastatic breast cancer. a radiation was only pelleted and a completely took away from her when she became pregnant accidentally. so that was already that bad. so now imagine you are an oncologist and trying to treat your cancer patients who was actually gets pregnant even if they say no but i do want this pregnancy, i want you to treat my cancer. i'm the patient. it doesn't matter. the state made the decision for you, not the doctor. as a professional, like, here's some did think about. i still am a texas licensed. what do i do with that? i have virginia license to practice medicine but have texas license. if i do something you to be in

texas think they have a right to come after me because i hold that? and this this is a profess, right? took a professional job that is now a professional job is illegal. if you do professional job you spent your string on putting you in jail for life, treatment. >> so the three of you who are healthcare providers who have helped cure people, keep them healthy, what's the message would like the second gentleman or me surfing the vice president, the president take back from this visit? >> i would just like to scissors light of discussion about again women who need abortion or abortion fighters and it's all extract. know when it comes office thought he would ever be there. but when you're in a position, maybe the scariest most unpredicted position of your life, do you want to find yourself with no options or do you want to send your daughter,, your sister, your friend to someone like me or someone like

doctor rubio who spent decades getting the skills that we need to provide compassionate care? this is not an abstract issue for people. i know it feels like it but trust me one day it will be for you or someone you love regardless of your political affiliation. >> abortion is healthcare. and what i didn't say is that in college i had friends who had to have back alley abortions. it was horrific, horrific experiences for them, which is why i call my story naked 74. i was really grateful that i had access to safe abortion and it made all the difference in my life in terms of personally and professionally. i have the children that i have planned. it's wonderful. and their grandchildren, and to

my granddaughters. >> any final thoughts, second gentleman? let me offer you final thoughts as we get ready to close. >> again, the vast majority of our country, regardless of political beliefs, religious beliefs, are on the site of all things we've been talking about and that is been proven at the ballot box the time of the gentleman has expired again. whenever this type of access is on the ballot, and it could be any bright a budget bright red state and overwhelmingly 70% whatever are voting for healthcare, voting for freedom, voting for autonomy. that's what makes this so outrageous. as a lawyer, fellow professional, the thought that i couldn't practice my chosen profession in one state but i could practice it in another to care for clients the way that i love to care for them is just outrageous. i have talked to many doctors

over the last two years and the thought, they told me stories of having rather than providing care, they're looking over their shoulder talking to the h.r., talking to insurance, talking to risk management. it's just outrageous. it's wrong. it's immoral and it's got to change. this will change when we elect kamala harris' as an ex-president of the united states. >> on that note, we will go ahead and close them what to say thank you to each and everyone of you. thank you for allowing us to use facility, to be able to gather. thank you to our director of our office of civil rights and to the second gentleman who could've been any other part of the country couch is to be us. >> and was on the schedule. the matter what else is going on one of you today to talk about this. it's at a port. >> thank you all very much for attending. [inaudible conversations]

>> your reaction to the names is are recalling her? >> that's all he's got? look, you heard the vice president yesterday making the case against donald trump very clearly, laid out the case directly and in a compelling fashion. but you also laid out the vision for the future, a vision where this freedom, were not having to talk about these issues of today in this post with dobbs hells gate the donald trump created. we need to guess, were going to prosecute the case against donald trump and his lies, he is gas lighting, during covid, dereliction of duty, inside an insurrection and all those other things, work and make that very clear. she's going to be able to make that case. we're also going to move on from this type of environment, this dobbs where freedoms are taken away, were autonomy is taken away, where the telling you you can't read this book. they're telling you you cannot

learn these facts. they're telling you you can't vote. all that is going to change and a must change. you see enthusiasm. you see the excitement. use of the money raised at you saw the party called the. >> use of the broad base of support that yet in just one or two days because she's talking about an america that we all have a place in. that's why kamala harris' my so proud of i'm also so proud of the present. i got choked up yesterday in wilmington when he called in all of us did what a great man. love joe biden. but kamala harris' has united the party purchase would unite the country. she's going to earn this domination picky see that happening and she's going to win this

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