industry officials of house transportation and infrastructure subcommittee hearing. >> the subcommittee on railroads, pipelines, and hazardous materials will come to order. i ask you men's consent that the charter authorized to declare a

recess at any time during today's hearing. without objection, so ordered. i also ask unanimous consent that the members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions. without objection, so ordered. as a reminder if members wish to insert a document into the record please also e-mail it to documents. i now recognize myself for five minutes for the purposes of an opening statement. i am pleased to call this hearing today to discuss rail safety, as well as the events that occurred in east palestine. i am hopeful every member has had ample opportunity to review the ntsb final report and the pending bipartisan legislation in both the senate and in the house. the railroad safety enhancement act that i introduced with congressman moulton builds upon the bipartisan legislation our

senate colleagues marked up and passed favorably out of the commerce committee. first, it requires all class i railroads to enroll in the confidential close call reporting system for a period of two years. this program is run by an independent third party and allows railroad employees to report close calls and unsafe incidents. second, our legislation does not include the periodic railcar inspections included in the senate rail safety bill. while well intentioned, i believe after discussions from a wide variety of stakeholders that these were redundant and unnecessary. our legislation requires state d.o.t.s to notify first responders of the existence of the askrail app, which is a tool that provides real-time data to first responders about a train consist. the first responders in east palestine had issues accessing

the askrail app due to lack of connectivity. our bill creates an askrail connectivity pilot program to fill gaps in service for the app along the national freight network. folks, people in east balloting, volunteer fireman, they get to the scene, they have no connectivity. they don't even know what's inside the cars. we've got to fix that at our legislation does that. our legislation authorizes an additional $1 billion dollars for the railroad crossing elimination grant program. $1 billion. i'll quote ms. homendy, grade crossings are among the deadliest spaces in our rail system, in part, because they are where our rail and highway systems meet. better separating these systems would save thousands of lives and incur many other benefits. i believe that the american

people would value federal investment in this area. it will not only reduce congestion on the network but also save lives. finally, our legislation authorizes $100 million annually for the federal railroad administration to establish a grant program to install onboard freight railcar telematics systems and gateway devices. the purpose of the program is to outfit the new and existing freight railcars carrying hazardous materials. additionally, this program will provide shippers with real-time data about their tank cars' health and performance. the bill also contains compromises on the phase-out date of d.o.t. 111 tank cars that industry has indicated they can meet. the senate opted to introduce rail safety legislation in the immediate aftermath of the derailment in east palestine, while the house chose to wait for the ntsb final report.

now before we move any further, it's my republican colleagues, i need to speak to my republican colleagues. the railway safety act in the senate is supported by president trump and is authored by vice presidential nominee senator vance. representative moulton and i took that bill and added four key safety components. confidential close call reporting system. askrail connectivity pilot program. telematics to modernize the tank car fleet. and more funding for the railroad crossing elimination grant program. taking senator vance's bill, and adding these four safety provisions, makes this a very good rail safety bill, and i humbly ask for your support because it's the right thing to do. i have read every page of the east palestine final report, and reports related to other

derailments and tragic incidents across the rail network. the idea that we do not evolve in the safety realm is indefensible. i extended invites to several of the class i railroad ceos. it was my intention that they would use the opportunity to discuss the positive policies their companies have undertaken in the area of safety. some of these railroads have good stories to tell, and i have personally visited several of them. i visited cn's operation in homewood, illinois, and it was top-tier. the types of technologies they are deploying are state of the art and will save lives, and i commend them for their efforts. but we can do more. i am eager to listen to the witness testimony and look forward to asking the panel questions. i now recognize ranking member

wilson for five minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chair. for convening this important hearing. the safety of freight and passenger railroads and the communities that they travel through should be our top priority on this subcommittee. the norfolk southern train derailment in east palestine shocked the nation, but we cannot lose sight that there is been over 1500 rail incidents since then in my district in florida, collisions between cars and trains remain a a persistt problem. while technological solutions to improve rail safety exists, it is clear that railroading overall safety culture has room to improve. my top priority has always been rail safety off and i'm thankful that our chair has made it a

priority with this legislation, alongside of the members of this committee, representative moulton, representative sykes, and duluth eo. i hope the information from today's hearing will encourage us to markup this legislation and sent a bipartisan rail safety bill to the floor. no transportation accident has a single cause. the ntsb report on the norfolk southern derailment makes it clear that there were many causes of the derailment and the decision under the mistaken belief that the tank cars were in imminent danger of exploding. according to the report, 26% of cars that did not derail had reportable defects despite being inspected before departure.

i look forward to hearing from our witnesses about what railroading practices need to change to catch defects like these in the year and half since the derailment. many media outlets have reported that carmen have had less than 90 seconds to inspect the railcar or have been pressured to release cars known to be defective. fortunately, after the derailment the train in east palestine had two crew members and one trainee on board who were able to respond swiftly to the accident and derailment. thanks to their quick actions they moved move the locomy from the fire, preventing additional fires and dangers to the first responders and the surrounding community.

the crude not know that the bearing was in danger of failure before the train derailed in east palestine. expanding the use of hot bearing detectors will only improve rail if the detectors are active and the spacing give sufficient time to stop a a faulty train befoa catastrophic failure. thank you, mr. chair got for holding this hearing, and i yield back. >> the gentlelady yields. i now recognize raking up a full

committee mr. larsen five minutes from an opening. >> thank you for holding today's hearing and real safety. ensuring safety in every motor transportation should always be this committee is top priority. since the norfolk southern derailment east palestine, ohio, committee democrats have been calling for a real safety hearing and real safety legislation. in may of 2023 every t&i democrat asked for real safety hearing highlighting the dozens of outstanding rail safety recommendations from the national transportation safety board. now that the ntsb has issued its final report on the derailment of chairman nehls along with others, i've entered israel safety legislation. today's hearing is an opportunity to hear a variety of perspectives on the ntsb's final report which was more than 30 additional rail safety recommendations come several which require congressional action. nearly a unesco with a watch the

giant plume of toxic fumes was released into the sky after the norfolk southern derailment. fortunately no one died as result of the drama remains a stark reminder of why we need to be vigilant about rail safety. that's why t&i democrats held aa real safety roundtable in march 2 different committees and rail workers impacted by rail accidents. mayor moran's of georgia told members of legislative mutiny blocked crossings would help his committee. national league of cities exec director clarence anthony told members thousands of communities support commonsense real safety legislation. the brotherhood of locomotive engineers and treatment national legislative representative furnace expressed concern freight railroads continued to pile on to the tally of real accidents and derailment. sheet metal, air rail, transportation workers international representative peter cafferty said congress easily freight rail safety a priority because meaningful change is needed in the industry. and an owner of a small business

in east palestine, ohio, highlighted how this dangerous drama devastated her community. a blog, rail stage accidents and incidents continue to occur over the last decade, the trends have not improved. in washington state alone there were 193 train accidents, 71 great causing 71 great causing incidents and 167 railroad right-of-way trust for fatalities. over the last five years including a burlington road in santa fe derailment that spilled over 3000 gallons of diesel fuel on the indian reservation in march 2023. while trains are getting longer, freight railroads continued to shrink their workforce. from 2015-22, class when railroads laid off 55% of mechanical employees railroads laid off 55% of mechanical employees, 40% of locomotive repair employs every 3% repair employs. in 20 2023 over 114 more real accidents than in 22. i look forward to this committee passing legislation to address rail safety concerns. rail safety enhancement act passed out of the senate

commerce committee last committee. at address ntsb recommendations to expand the high hazard flammable trains definition,, establish requirements for wayside bearing detectors and accelerate the removal of d.o.t. 111 tank car some flammable liquid service. the bill provides needed funding for hazardous materials, emergency responder training and a portly it mandates class when railroads to join the federal railroad administrations confidential close call reporting system. the bi-partisanly for such a long supercharge investment in rail with $102 billion in planned funding. many of these investments will improve safety along with making service improvements. last year the city of blame in my district received $9.5 million raise grant dollars raise grant to begin work on the belt and road bnsf at grade crossing. that town cannot begin to resolve the issues at the crossing that i first heard about more than 20 years ago as a freshman member of the house of representatives.

i'm pleased that project is advancing to improve safety and accessibility, reduce congestion and create jobs and keep the regional economy moving. bil includes $3 $3 billion to separate a close grade crossings and railroad crossing elimination grant program and $5 billion to enhance safety efficiency and reliability of rail through the consultant rail infrastructure and safety improvement grant program. i expect great results for committees from these grants at additional rail funding to come but there is more to do. i think the chair, the ranking member and the witnesses, including our new member of house of representative from how of the 49th all the testimony. i yield back. >> gentleman yields. i would like to recognize our witnesses say thank them for being here today. take a moment to explain our lighting system. there are three lights in front of you. he means go, you let running out of time and read, and conclude your remarks that i ask unanimous consent the witnesses

all statements included in the record. without objection, so ordered. i asked unanimous consent the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as eyewitnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be said that student in writing. without objection, so ordered. i ask unanimous consent the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information submitted by the members of witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing. without objection, so ordered. as you intensely has been made a part of the record, the subcommittee ask you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. with that we will turn to our first panel and representative rulli from the great state of ohio you're recognized for five minutes for your testimony. >> thank you. chairman nehls, ranking member wilson, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for allowing me to testify on this critical issue of rail safety. let me be clear.

the state of our rail safety is a global disgrace with norfolk southern train derailed in east palestine just 60 miles from my home, president biden was nowhere to be found. when secretary buttigieg commented on his behalf, ten days after the fact, he blew up the situation by saying that are roughly 1000 1000 cases a f training derailment, 1000 of them once a year? is pure government negligence. the east palestine disaster wasn't an isolated incident. it was a wake-up call that i heard that fell on deaf ears everywhere in the government. derailments are not limited to just one state or company, and issues with rail safety are not limited derailments. some other tragic incidents we have seen since february 3, 2023 include the death of louis schuster, a norfolk southern conductor killed switching operations in cleveland, ohio, march the 2023.

the death of danny brent wilkins a union pacific track worker killed while making track repairs in arkansas of april april 2024. class when railroads are asleep at the switch while our communities live in fear that each passing train could be the next disaster. this is unacceptable. the consequence of interaction are not limited to human cost, also financial. in the year since the 23rd, 2023, norfolk southern costs tied to the drama are estimated at over $1.1 billion. that's billion with a bee. and that doesn't even include a meager settlement agreed to by the department of justice who uttered, ultimately pays for this. the american people through increased cost of goods shipped over these rail networks. when my neighbors already paying for the disaster with their

health. i seen their rashes. i've listen to the stories of the doctors visits told me with scratchy voices and sore throats. this this is a slap in all or faces. the national transportation safety board under chair jennifer homendy leadership has made 27 recommendations to rail companies that remained unfulfilled to this day. one of these could've saved the conduct of life in cleveland. a simple cage on front of the car to protect against collision. yet he remains and implemented. another recommends norfolk southern ensure all relative expertise regarding has met on board a shared with unseen responders. occipital occidental mad chemicals on board. they recommended not to burn the contents of the train.

but this recognition was not shared with first responders and tell after the fact. a third group recommends norfolk southern immediately provide first responders with inaccurate list of materials on board. it took them a full hour to provide this to east palestine, putting those first responders at extreme risk. many of these 27 recommendations are included in chairman nehls h.r. 8996, which is a bipartisan effort that should be, that should appeal to anyone who recognizes that ntsb's critical in transportation safety. you may be wanting i chairman nehls come by so many other cosponsors introduced this bill. we are doing it because class when railroads can't be trusted to do it on their own. ntsb recommendation are 26 was issued over a decade ago in

response to head-on collision in oklahoma. it arts class when railroads to install audio and imagery recorded with a minimum of 12 hour recording capability. the ntsb reiterated the importance of this recommendation, in a june letter on east palestine disaster. that train had a 12 hour recording capability. however, norfolk southern overwrote that but only provided 20 minutes surrounding the derailment itself. with norfolk southern controlling a court of this nation's rail network, this disregard for safety recommendations is purely unacceptable. we must take decisive action to ensure the safety and security of this nation's rail networks by passing h.r. 8996. this bill has been cosponsored by nine members and counting,

and includes many parts of senator vance and senator brown already vetted s576. this bill requires d.o.t. to issue regulations so shippers must provide first responses with advance notice of hazardous trains. establish requirements for wayside detectors, require a minimum two man crew on certain freight trains. in my opinion this is a most important words out of my mouth today. create hazardous material emergency preparedness fund, provide funds for telematics and gateway devices, phase out certain flawed tank cars like those that derailed in east palestine by may 21, 2027, giving them lead time to make this happen. require amtrak and all class when railroads to enroll a confidential close call

reporting system, provide funds to study the 20 most frequently blocked crossings in at least ten states. these are not suggestions. these are imperatives. employing a second crewman in cab provides the necessary layer of defense against potential disasters. and we as legislators must act as that second crewman and protecting the american people from inaction of rail companies and the administration. the cost of inaction is way too high. we have seen the economic disruption and environmental damage as a threat to human life. my community has seen it firsthand. i personally arrived at ground zero, 18 hours after the train derailment in east palestine. the impact was immediate and personal. every single time i left that site i had a sore throat.

to this day right now today my family that lives 15 miles apart are still using bottled water. the effects of this disaster are not abstract. they are part of our daily lives in east palestine. how many more residents need to be displaced? how many more people need to lose their life before we say enough is enough? our nation's rail road network used to be the crowning achievement of american industry. it once was hailed as a marvel of innovation, completed with the gold spike, offering the promise of a brighter and more prosperous future. but now simply exists as a nightmare in the minds of the backyards of the millions of americans. i urge of this committee to take decisive action, hold the class when railroads of the department transportation accountable, demand stricter regulations and enforcement. our communities can't afford to wait. the next range raiment could be in your own neighborhood.

all of the supporting h.r. 8996 we are not only improving but we also acknowledging the vital work of the ntsb and chairman home edition. this is a chance to take meaningful bipartisan action on the critical issue affecting every state and every district in the united states. thank you so much. >> thank you representative rulli. any other questions, questions? seeing that, thank you, to thank you for being here. this concludes our first panel. you are excused. i would like to know welcome our second panel of witnesses.

as a reminder your written testimony has been made part of the record so the subcommittee asks that you limit your remarks to five minutes. with that, chair homendy, you are recognized for five minutes for your testimony. >> good afternoon. thank you for the opportunity to beer today. since 1967 the national transportation safety board has been at the forefront of railroad safety. while our investigation of east palestine derailment has garnered significant attention, we launched two rail accidents almost weekly. this past sunday we sent a team to norfolk, virginia, to investigate an accident

involving a a norfolk southern conductor who sustained severe injuries during switching operations in a rail yard. last march after the conductor was killed when the train collided with a dump truck at a grade crossing in cleveland. the conductor was writing the lead railcars during the shopping movement when he was pinned between the railcar and the dump truck during the collision. a union pacific employee was also killed during a shopping movement just a few weeks ago this time in illinois railroad. the ntsb has issued multiple recommendations urging railroads and the fra to prevent employees from riding railcars during certain movements. those recommendations remain open, meaning they have not been addressed pick . in fact, we have 215 open recommendations that will transform rail safety, but only if there acted on. according to the railroads own data, the accident rate in railyards has soared more than

50% over the last decade reaching levels we haven't seen since 2005. and over half of our open rail investigations involve employee injuries, some of which were fatal, all of which are unacceptable and preventable. i urge you this committee to exercise robust oversight over rail employee safety, which is clearly at risk. turned east palestine, we determine that the probable cause of the derailment and has that release was a failure of a wheel bearing that overheated and cost the axle to separate, derailing 38 cars of the train. 11 of those cards contained hazmat. three were mechanically breached releasing their content that ignited. all of those mechanically breached tank cars were d.o.t. 111. we determine a massive fire likely began with the release of a flammable liquid from a

punctured d.o.t. 111 tank car, which is not scheduled for replacement intel may 2029. other d.o.t. one elevens the breach were transporting combustible liquids. those are not covered under the fast act. this is a vital finding i want to drive home. we determine that if those d.o.t. 111 tank cars had that sustained mechanical breaches during the derailment, the d.o.t. 105 tank cars transporting vinyl record like would not have been exposed to the fire conditions that led to the concerns about the vent and burn actions in east palestine. we also determine norfolk southern failed to provide responders with information on the contents of the railcars for hours. this is not come this going to leave evacuation of residents but prolonged firefighters exposures to extremely hazardous condition. they could rely on the placards

which have melted and only one responder we interviewed was able to act and to ask. there were restrictions for training volunteer firefighters. many of whom braley responded despite having received minimal training. radio communications were a significant challenge. 48 agencies responded and struggled to communicate with each other. and a poorly we determined that norfolk southern failed to communicate relevant expertise and dissenting opinion to the incident commander. they inaccurately represented that the tank cars were at risk of the catastrophic failure. which created unwanted, unwarranted urgency and let the unnecessary decision to vent and burn the final five vinyl chloride take cars. as a result of this investigation which issued 37 findings and 34 new safety recommendations, all of which

norfolk southern has endorsed. thank you, chairman nehls and committee members for your real safety leadership. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you, chairwoman homendy. administrator boss come to recognize the five-minute action minutes. >> chairman nehls, ranking member wilson and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on improving railroad safety. i want to pause to remember representative pain was a champion for making freight and passenger rail safe, reliable and accessible. i join in remembering him fondly. today i am pleased to join you to discuss rail safety. fra works everyday to a dance safety our core mission through our safety professionals, partnerships with stakeholders, and investments in rail projects around the country.

the department of transportation safety personnel were on the ground within hours of the norfolk southern derailment in east palestine, and have been investigating the accident. last week fra reported on our investigation which found a roller bearing overheated and failed, causing the guerrilla. fra also determine that in esses proceeded in an aquatic action and adequate staffing for mitigating information on the hot bearing detectors to the train crew may have contributed to the accident. and fra in consultation with the pipeline and hazardous materials safety administration concluded that the use of a general-purpose d.o.t. 111 specification tank car to transport butyl acrylate integrated to the severity of

the accident. in response to the derailment, secretary buttigieg layout a three-part push, pressing the major railroads inviting congress to join us in efforts to increase freight rail safety and hold railroads accountable. for over a year the department of transportation has continued those calls while concurrently taking important actions to make freight rail safer. for instance, fra conducted 7500 focused inspections on high hazard flammable train routes and begin collecting train length data. fra deployed billions of dollars for rail improvement and safety projects, , including 63 projecs to address more than 400 trade crossings through the bipartisan infrastructure law railroad crossing elimination grant program. fra also begin collecting

information from cruise and dispatchers at two class one freight railroads through pilots of the program. and work continues with fra's wayside detector, railroad safety advisory committee working group. i am encouraged to seek the renewed bipartisan interest in this chamber for legislation that would add to the safety actions. while fra will continue using our existing authorities, we need congress to do its part. because data shows the class one freight railroad safety performance has stagnated over the last decade, and by some measures deteriorated. for yard derailments data show that the rate in 2023 was 51% higher compared to ten years ago. while the deterioration of derailment rights has not been

uniform, recent data does show one class one freight railroad experiencing an improvement in reductions of derailment g 2023. the overall rate of accidents not at grade crossings has been rising slowly threat the decade, peaking in 2022. while not while not all derailments are equal, yard derailments should be taken seriously. since july 2023 fra has issued four safety bulletins related to railyard fatalities. just earlier this month a conductor lost his life in a railyard accident. this is neither acceptable nor inevitable. that's why fra has been pushing the industry to do better. for instance, fra has issued 19 safety advisories in safety bulletins calling for attention and action on issues like shop movements, switching cars,

wayside detectors, long trains and roadway maintenance machines. fra also finalize new safety rules on train crew size ensuring that cruise had emergency escape breathing apparatus, certifying dispatcher a signal employees and require railroads to develop fatigue risk management plans. fra's main progress on real safety, but history has shown the major freight railroads and many in congress are eager and not to settle for the status quo. like the american public, fra and d.o.t. think that is unacceptable. i urge all of you and your colleagues in both chambers to act quickly on commonsense rail safety measures. thank you. >> thank you, ed adminiistrator bose. debbie administrator brown you are recognized for fiber. >> thank you, mr. chairman burr good afternoon ranking member wilson, rank member larsson, members of subcommittee.

appreciate deputy ba.2 testify on behalf of pipeline has as much of safety administration. as relates to our hazardous material safety and real safety programs. as i testified earlier this year before the subcommittee safety is and remains a top corner of the secretary of our agency. specifically were responsible for overseeing the safe transportation of hazardous materials but all modes of transportation. that trucks, trains planes, automobiles, vessels, drones which amounts to nearly one in ten goods that are transported commercially in the united states. everything nuclear waste to bulk petroleum fuels to lithium ion batteries to spacecraft the transported to spaceports around the world. with respect to rail transport got to a bunch of the safest most competitive and environmental environmentally responsible hazardous materials transportation system in the world, we largely focus on establishing and updating standards for tank cars and operational requirements for hazardous materials carriage

come clubbing with the federal railroad administration and forcing the standard investing in research and development, participating in investigations and establishing requirements for providing information to first responders as well as providing funding for training those first responders. because the railroad sector and the global economy are increasingly dynamic and rapidly changing, our challenges as an agency are as difficult as ever. since joining the agency i've made it a goal to visit with victims of pipeline and hazardous materials related incidents from bellingham, washington, with ranking member to mississippi to marshall michigan and east palestine, ohio. i've heard directly from individuals from families come from first responders impact of a hazardous material incidents. any case of of the 2023 norfolk southern derailment, phmsa personal were on the ground responding and supported the national transportation safety board investigation.

once much attention response is completed the fra administrate and i were on scene to support the tank car inspections and to meet with and solicit feedback from the workers and first responders. also for the first time the department's issued a secretary of transportation visited the site of a hazmat train derailment to participate in the hazmat car inspections and meet with investigators and first responders. the brave first responders for this incident were critical in helping us develop major changes to our hazardous materials response regulations for railroads which we announced as part of our new real-time train rulemaking. we have known for decades that much of the stronger design, that the much stronger design d.o.t. 117 and 105 tank cars reduce safety risk during incidents and have consistent and we consistently advocated for their expanded use in rail transport. the ntsb noted in its most recent reported that in the vast majority of actions involving d.o.t. 111 tank cars they

examine hazardous materials releases likely would've been prevented or reduced by the use of a more robust tank car specification such as the 117 which has the thicker tech show, thermal protection aukus is the of full height had shields. in the wake of the 2013 crude oil derailment in back again to québec that killed nearly 50 people and destroyed dozens of buildings, phmsa and the fra moved with haste to develop an aggressor in capri at the high hazard flammable trainable to among other things phase out the d.o.t. 111 tank cars in favor of new and stronger a a much betr performing cars. unfortunately a 2016 congressional mandate just months after we finished our work delayed that phaseout of the weaker d.o.t. 111 tank cars. that remains in place unless congress acts to change it. mr. chairman, another secretary was pleased to your support for a quicker phaseout and echo the sentiments. in closing, phmsa zika to work

with that subcommittee to advance bipartisan legislation that improves the safety of hazardous materials transportation by rail. the success of our hazardous materials safety initiatives depend heavily on the dedicated efforts of phmsa team who worked tirelessly to establish and uphold the highest safety standards in the world. their commitment is driving force and xp are agencies crucial role in overseeing the safe transportation of passengers materials. as members of the subcommittee have pointed out to offer an action is delayed until after a major incident occurs. phmsa simply to work with you to proactively advance precautionary safety measures. and thank you for your efforts to advance the bipartisan railroad safety legislation before you. we look for to work with you to prep has whose natural safety to protect our community is. look forward to your questions. thank you, mr. brown. mr. assange or recognized for five minutes. >> chairman nehls, ranking member wilson and members of the subcommittee, haiti for the

opportunity to join this panel today discussed real safety and the poor lessons from the tragic events related to the east palestine derailment. the american chemistry council shares the committee's goal to advance transportation safety to protect public health and the environment. we show your gratitude to emergency responders, government officials and well workers for their tireless efforts responding to the incident. we think the ntsb for its thorough investigation. the east palestine incident as a strong reminder that more work is needed. we are committed to working with congress, the administration and all stakeholders to further improve freight rail and hazardous materials transportation safety. acc represents a leading companies doing business in chemistry. our members manufacture products to make our lives healthier, safer and more sustainable. each year our industry shipped more than 2.3 million carloads by real. we ship chemicals because the country needs these essential products to support virtually

every aspect of daily life. acc and its members are committed to transporting these products safely. we demonstrate this commitment to responsible care, our environmental health, , safety d security performance initiative. in addition our programs provide specialized training and critical information to local emergency responders. while rail is recognized as a safest way to transport hazardous materials overland, agency supports a a multilayed approach to further advance safety including steps to reduce the romans, minimize the risk of hazmat release, and strengthen emergency response. acc believes that bipartisan railroad safety enhancement act and the senate railway safety act provide a a solid foundatn to move us forward. i want to focus on one element of overall rail safety, improving tank car performance. it's important to recognize shippers not railroads own or lease the cards used to ship the

products and in a significant investments in tank car safety. acc members are upgrading their tank cars used to transport flammable liquids replacing d.o.t. 111 cars, cars built to newer d.o.t. 117 standards. these actions are car significant long-term planning and capital investment. the fast act deadline for the final group of these cars is ma. i want to clarify that prior to the fast at the phaseout requirement applied only to d.o.t. 111 cars carried on high hazard flammable trains. it would not have applied to the train that derailed in east palestine. the fast act expanded the scope to apply to all flammable liquid cars regardless of what type of training they are on. acc supported the fast act. acc also supports establishing an earlier deadline but it must be consistent with the railcar industries ability to produce d.o.t. 117 cars but also building, maintaining and repairing all types of take, of

railcars. industry data suggests moving up the current deadline by one year maybe feasible. acc believes your bill provides a workable approach while that accelerates the deadline it also recognizes an unworkable phaseout timeline could disrupt critical supply chains. therefore, the bill asked gao to review industry capacity and authorized d.o.t. to extend the time frame, if necessary. i would like to briefly touch on two two other aspects of the house bill. first, acc strong support additional funding for phmsa passes materials grants program. the program supports emergency response planning and training activities and is funded by the registration fees paid by shippers and others involved in hazmat transportation. the bill would modify the fee structure providing flexibility to nearly double the funding of emergency response training programs without disproportionately impacting small business. second, acc supports provisions

to assist the development and use of onboard telematics systems for railcars. telematics have the potential to provide better visibility into railcar locations and may help monitor railcar conditions while in transit. the bills grant funding and pilot programs can help enhance safety benefits of these technologies. thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. acc as committed to working with policymakers and our transportation partners to find data-driven solutions so the products of our industry can be delivered safely and without incident. i'd be happy to take questions. >> thank you, mr. sloan. mr. arouca you are recognized for five minutes. >> good afternoon, chairman nehls, ranking members will and larson, members of the committee and thank you for invitation to be. my name is david arouca, national budgets are direct with transportation communication junior. i'm here to testify about the immense need for legislation that improve the safety of our nation's rail network. i would like to pay my respects

to the subcommittees former chairman donald payne. he was indeed one of the kindest souls on capitol hill and he cared deeply for railroad workers. he will be missed dearly. i want to extend our unions deepest sympathies to the residents of east palestine. the surrounding community and especially the first responders. please know that we bought the same thing as you, , to make sue this never happens again. tcu represents various crafts across the rail industry but germane to the steering are the carmen, those tasked with maintaining, repairing and inspecting all freight railcars for fra reportable defects. we represent carmen in every class i one all across the country. what about to tell you may seem shocking but it's the truth. railroads do not want to know how defective trains are. please know we do not make this conclusion lightly like it is based on years of watching how to railroads have systematically rigged their operations to avoid and great quality safety inspections, including cutting

the carmen stein to inspect by two-thirds or more, turn it off defect detector from some f detect and track defects become too inconvenient and relying upon inspections by untrained trees and utility personnel not despite but because they are held to a lower regulatory standard. to quote a recent investigative piece from propublica, the railroads use performance pay systems that effectively penalize supervisor for taking the time to fix hazards and that pressured him to quash dissent, threatening a firing the very workers they hired to keep their operation safe. as result trains with no problems are rolling from yard to yard like a ticking time bombs getting passed down the line to the next crew to defuse or defer again, unquote. recently the fra had to hold their safety culture study in union pacific. citing employees were coached in the responses or that employs were reluctant to even participate, citing intimidation or fear of retaliation.

last week the fra completer a qualitative time study of mechanical inspections across all the class ones which is attached to my testimony. there they're fun is what tn to nonmembers. when fra is present carmen are given on average a mere one minute and 38 seconds, one minute 38 seconds per car to inspect still too short. when fra isn't there, that time drops even further to 44 44 s per car, or 22 seconds per side. when addressing train crews or utility personnel performing these inspections, quote report date and time observations do not support confidence in the performance of quality inspections. that mechanical employees perform a more quality brake test when given adequate time. this would contribute to a safer train, unquote. safer trains means fewer defects, fewer injuries and, therefore, fewer east palestinians.

sadly, the prevailing mindset of the class ones in the current so-called precision scheduled railroading arrogantly summed up in a common refrain our members here every single day from the managers. we are in in the business of moving freight, not fixing railcars. in june 2022 tcu carbon division president don grisham testified to this committee about many of these pressures but nothing has been done. fatigue issues remain about in the industry as force overtime at 16 and even 244 hour shifts now forced many carmen to sleep in the cars because they're too tired to drive. i asked members of the committee if it's too dangerous for you to drive, isn't it too dangerous to work in around yard? the fra under administrative most of them trying to combat these issues but we believe the agencies underresourced and field inspectors lack the teeth to enforce proper compliance. all of the affirmation reasons is what our union is wholeheartedly endorsing the legislation introduced i chairman nehls and congressman moulton just as we support brown

pants. specific regretful to chairman nehls, senator vance and all republican cosponsors for having the courage to step away from party orthodoxy that is a stroke withdrawn a partisan line between the railroads and rail labor. obviously i want to think our democratic friends including congressman duluth you was been so focused on this issue from being long-standing support of the real safety efforts and rail workers. indeed it seems both sides of our can agree, real safety should never be a partisan issue. after all, every american agrees that trains need to stay on the tracks. thank you for the opportunity to testify and don't forget your question thank you, mr. arouca. mr. hynes computers you. you're recognized for recognized for five minutes. >> good afternoon -- [inaudible] good afternoon, chairman nehls, ranking member wilson, members of the committee. thank you for allowing me to testify today. my name is gregory hynes. i am the national legislative director for the transportation

division of sheet metal, air, rail and transportation. smart-td is a largest labor organization an american railroad. we are extremely thankful to chairman nehls and congressman moulton as well as the current cosponsors for for the leadp was to prioritize safety in the railroad industry. personally, chairman nehls, i would like to thank you for being an honest broker throughout this process. i appreciate it. the disaster at each palestinian ohio on february 3, 2023 served as a wake-up call call to the nation, for the men and women in the ranks of america's railroad workers, it was no surprise. the unfortunate reality is that in the accidents wake little has changed. three major rail related accidents unwarranted investigations by the ntsb in the last month. one was a derailment resulted in

a hazardous material leak in north dakota. another was a fatal accident involving a young conductor with less than six months experience in chicago. the most recent, last friday, was a life altering injury resulting is a double invitation of a conductor slims in norfolk, virginia. these are just three of dozen accidents in the last 30 days. -- conductors lambs. the role of the dot 111 tank car is mentioned often. last week in oklahoma, a major derailment again expose the frailty of that car, like an aluminum can the dot 111 succumbed to the laws of physics when poorly built trains derailed, causing is content to spill. like most dram it's involving mixed trains, the trains are

excessively lengthy and with great weight, and half, the haphazard makeup resulted in damage and a hazmat breach. longer come have you trains were difficult to stop. the heavier the train is, the more inertia it possesses. the more weight on the rear, the more forces come crashing in on the cars during a derailment. greater momentum causes greater destruction. it's basic physics. no meaningful technology,, including distributed power units, locomotives, locomotives -- locomotives railroads throw a note of run come to run longer trains changes that. this legislation and ensuring proper inspections are being performed so the unsafe equipment is removed from the rails can make things safer. carriers have kept crafts to force, forces less employees to perform safety inspection to cut

costs. this results in faulty and unsafe equipment, getting into the system with effect after detector stopping used to full capacity and short staffing, you have a recipe for disaster. meaningful data is needed. one solution is the confidential close call reporting system, or as we refer to it, c-3 rs program such as this have been widely successful in other modes of transportation. look no further than the aviation safety action program. today just 28 of hundreds of u.s. railroad properties use this program to objectively identify where safety can approve. two of the largest come norfolk southern and bnsf, have taken steps but on a limited scope. c-3rs should be the role rather than the exception. this bill does that.

lastly, ever present is the effort by the railroads to reduce two person crews to just one on a freight train. every single day lives are saved and accidents prevented because of those two people aboard a freight train. .. >> the coordinated efforts of the crew have been well-documented and largely credited by ns and fra and the rail labor community in met

mitigating the damage that night. if the railroads are given their way and two professionals are not in the locomotive during the next rail disaster, do we really want to see difference having a conductor truly makes? the d.o.t. finalized regulation mandating two-person crews for freight trains and we are grateful, but railroads seek to subvert this common sense regulation with legal challenges. congress must follow chairman's lead and pass the railroad safety enhancement act for 2024 to codify this life saving necessity into law. america's railroads are the greatest in the world and the process of protocols governing are not. major derailments and hazardous material releases have become common and america's railroad workers and the communities they traverse deserve better

and pass the railroad safety enhancement act of 2024. thanks for the opportunity to testify and we look forward to answering questions of the committee. >> thank you, mr. hynes. thank you all for your testimony. we will turn to questions from the panel and i'll recognize myself for five minutes and i will start by asking unanimous consent entering following documents into the record. a report from the secretary of the railroads to secretary buttigieg on march 22nd, 2023. railroads announce desafety measures in drive to cyr accidents dated march 8th, 2023. without objection, so ordered. in response to east palestine, the association of american railroads which represents the class railroad announced seven steps to reach zero incidents and zero injuries. you can find it out of the

website. i have the document, it's rit here. the first step ar lifted was detector spacey. ar said 1,000 hot box detectors and achieving a 15 mile average between detectors. ms. homendy would this average spacing would made a difference in east palestine? >> it would not have. >> the safety safety measure they announced all class ones are joining the fra's voluntary confidential close call reporting system. this is it, this is the letter. they sent the letter dated march 2nd, 2023 to secretary buttigieg. how many class ones are enrolled in the program and how many employees are covered by the program? >> mr. chairman, two railroads have pilot programs, approximately 1500 craft workers from conductors,

engineers, and dispatchers. >> the letter is well over a year old, march of 2023 and you've got two. >> chairwoman homendy i would like to thank you and your tomorrow on a thorough report, you've done a great job. there have been allegations about norfolk southern's conduct i'd like to address for the record. in your opinion was norfolk southern open, honest, transparent with your investigation? >> they were open. they were honest, and they were transparent based on our request for information. was it timely? no. were other actions that were taken in violation of our party regulations and our party rules? yes. >> mr. hynes, one of the most contentious provisions of the rsu you aleaded to your opening and our legislation is the crew

size mandate. please explain why congress should mandate this provision and how it contributes to safety. >> well, that's a great question. keeping -- the duties of a conductor are different than the duties of an engineer, and the engineer primarily operates the train. the conductor does anything that takes place off of the locomotives and things that take place in the camp. they have different jobs and i think it's important to point out that as far as grade crossing accidents that go, which we have thousands every year, it's the conductor who gets off the train when either a derailment happens or if a car is hit in a grade crossing. the conductor goes back and assesses the situation, relays the engineer and services underway and out there and depending where they're coming from, they have to make a

separation in the train to allow an emergency through and you could never did that with just one person. >> i would like to add that this new legislation proposed in the house of senate still preserves a waiver to the fra for the purpose of regard crew size. mr. sloan, i think it's important to have a shipper here how it impacts them and in terms of rail safety what concerns do shippers have? is there anything we're missing? >> thank you for the question. we have aborted the bill because i think like i say, it provides a solid foundation to move forward so i think it has largely addressed, you know, the concerns that we have raised with the committee and on the senate side. >> sure. >> as mentioned in your testimony we seem to agree that the railroad is profitable. but they've got to be safe.

how would the proposed legislation operate safely and not look at the ability to operate ontime. >> no one has a greater goal for success than the people at that work in them. we can't argue for better contracts, safety, all of that goes out the window. the service critics that might be critical of the bill are wrong. i'm sitting next to one of the largest rail customers in the country. i don't think he would be supporting the legislation if he thought it was going to completely destroy rail service for his entire industry. at the end of the day for the car men, you have two options, you either give them enough time to inspect the trains or you have more car men to

inspect the trains. >> thank you, i'll yield the balance. i'll now recognize the ranking member for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chair. mr. arouca, there are two types of federal train inspections. an inspection my qualified carman who inspects 195 points on each car and the locomotive crew inspection that covers only 12 points, what are some of the things that the shorter inspection does not cover? >> thank you, ranking member. well, i brought a little bit of a visual indication here so this is from-- i printed out the portions of the fra's mp and e or equipment compliance manual that the inspectors are required to use and that our members are required to is inspect, too.

this is what our carmen are having inspect to. quite a tack of paper, 215, 232. this, these two pages is what a crew member is required to inspect to, 12 points of inspection. they're generallylized, versus a carman has to look at versus parts, gauges and tools, and unfortunately, and this is not to detract from our brothers and sisters in operating crafts, but they don't have the time to do this. they have other tasks to do, they have to get the freight ready to roll. the carmen are supposed to make everything safe and it's important to have the carmen there to make everything safe. >> so you feel that employees are feeling prescient to rush inspections to keep the trains on schedule?

>> oh, absolutely. one of the things that the fra's recent time study just showcased is, you know, how the car men today, even a minute 30 that some people have been floating around or that when fra is present that's what they observed that's not how the car men is treated as soon as the fra walks onto the yard it's only 22 seconds a side. you cannot inspect. you can barely physically walk the length of a train car in 22 seconds let alone pay any attention to any amount of detail on the car. >> and there's a wall street journal article that actually says that norfolk southern's rail yard workers were expected to inspect each rail car in one minute so that the trains could leave on schedule. do you think one minute is sufficient to perform all the needed safety checks on one

rail car? i think you kind of answered that. >> yeah, well, that's the funny thing is that that policy was in place, but it's not even one minute. i remember norfolk southern's responses well, that's a bid of a guideline. well, the fra study that just came out last week showed they're not even giving them a minute, but 44 seconds. so, 22 seconds a side. and that this is a year and a half after east palestine where a lot of media has covered this issue because our car men are stick and tired of it. they're rushed and they can't do the job well. >> thank you. mr. hynes, your testimony was riveting when you talked about all the accidents that have happened since it was done. how has the implementation of pre-vision schedule railroading impacted safety in your

estimation? >> when i started working with the industry 30 years ago, they were doing we'd be fired if we tried to cut the corners like they cut the corners now. it's the short-term modeling of operation ratios and lowering the operation ratio and that just becomes all they care about and wall street tells them, you've got to cut crews, got to cut your labor, you've got to cut, you've got to cut and by doing, it's made them incredibly profitable. more profitable than in the history of the world, but less safe and the catastrophes we're seeing now are happening far too frequently. >> thank you.

and that event that was going to happen before it took place. >> an event in burn was discussed sunday night, yes. there were several discussions between the norfolk southern's contractors and oxy vinyl. >> do we know what the response was when told of this decision? >> according to the interviews oxy vinyl stated that they did not believe a catastrophic chemical reaction was occurring in the tank cars and they didn't believe that vent and burn was necessary. >> i'm out of time. i field back. >> the gentle lady yields. i recognize mr. babin for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, i appreciate it very, very much. like many of you here today i was shocked watching the east palestine events unfold and i think the american people want solutions to make sure that an

event like this can never ever map again. the event was a tragedy. and i find it despicable that this catastrophe was not taken seriously by the white house. it took president biden more than a year to go visit east palestine. that slow response made americans question the competency of the federal government and its capability of responding to disasters like this. the optics of smalltown america being devastated without getting personal attention from our nation's highest office did not build any confidence in this administration. fortunately president trump and his vice-presidential nominee j.d. vance made it very clear that this is going to be a top priority for them moving forward and now that we've got an n.t.s.b. report in hand, i think that we need to focus on concrete ways to improve rail safety, improve the transportation of chemical goods, and rebuild american confidence in our

transportation sector. let's use today is a great chance to move forward toward-- forwards on the same page. my first couple of questions are for mr. jeff sloan, with the american chemistry council. no doubt, following the events in east palestine many americans realize for the first time that our rail and chemical industry work very closely together. mr. sloan, would you give a very brief overview of the role that chemical companies play in assuring the safe transportation of chemicals by rail and after that, do you believe rail is a safe way to move hazardous chemicals or is there a better with an i to move them? >> i'll start with the first. the second question first. rail is the safest way to move hazardous materials by land and our industry is reliant on the rail industry to deliver our products where they're needed across the country. i think we have a collaborative relationship with the railroads when it comes to safety and i

think a prime example of this would be the trans care program which acc cooperates with the class one railroad to provide hands ontraining to local emergency responders. we do this with support from-- with grant funding support from simsa so we think this is an excellent example of how shippers, railroads, emergency responders and government officials can work together. >> okay. thank you very much. and chairwoman homendy, i want to say thank you for all of your hard work. this is several times that i've seen you in just the last month or so coming up here and talking about various transportation issues and your good job doing a thorough n.t.s.b. report. your efforts are truly appreciated. my next question is for you, the n.t.s.b. report on east

palestine goes into great detail identifying and explaining safety issues as well as providing recommendations to industry, state, local and federal entities. i understand a number of the recommendations from n.t.s.b. were meant to be handled at other level of government or by the industry themselves. can you share a few specific recommendations on what you believe that congress can do to ensure that this tragedy never happens again, thank you. >> thank you very much, sir. one particular example would be an aggressive phase out of dot111 tank cars. this started with the d.o.t.-111 tank cars and expand that to include other hazardous materials and phasing out those d.o.t. 111's. that's improvement in rail safety overall. something that we have recommended over 17 accidents going back to 2013.

in fact, we had a study in 1991 and have been recommending it ever since. here is what i'll say. i know there's a lot of discussion whether to do a rail safety or rail safety improvements right now. this committee has a role, a critical role in improving rail safety and you all have done so much on a bipartisan basis over decades. i worked for this committee for 14 years, i saw tremendous success on safety. everything from the motor carrier safety act in 1999, rail safety improvement act of 2008. numerous transit bills and pipeline reauthorization bills, you have done so much to improve safety. now is the time because this could occur in texas, california, wisconsin, georgia, well, it did occur in pennsylvania because you were right on the border, it could occur anywhere, this is an

opportunity to improve rail safety and i hope you'll use it. >> thank you, and i will yield back. >> want to say that sounds like endorsement of our bill. but the co-author of the rail safety act for five minutes. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and thank you for your opening remarks on this bill, i'm proud of the piece of legislation that we've put together. in cooperation with so many of the people here and so many of the folks represented here today, including the class ones. at the same time, i want to be careful to disassociate myself with some of our new colleagues remarks at this hearing. and unlike his attack on this administration, this and my -- unlike the vitriol, railway is

a way across the country. it's to improve the competitive and safeness. we want the rails to be more competitive, 22,,000 plus incidents on our nation's highways compared to 22,543 on highways versus 297 on freight rail. i'm not sure what is. having said that we want to see 297 go to zero. from 2012 to 2023 there have been zero railway deaths with hazardous materials, and 82 with hazmat. we want to share the goal of shifting more traffic from

unsafe highways to safe railroads, that's a large part of the goal of this bill. now, mr. bose, after the east palestine derailment, norfolk southern was' tacked by an investment fund named ancora holdings, trying to take over the company, citing east palestine. this ohio-based family wealth fund wants a railroad of longer trains manned by fewer personnel and less reinvestment in infrastructure to return more short-term money annually to shareholders. based on the data we have today, mr. bose, would longer trains, fewer personnel for operations and maintenance, and less reinvestment in infrastructure improve railroad safety? >> congressman, thank you for the question. no. >> no, it would know the. well, in response to ancora's

attack, they changed out the chief operating officer and brought in someone more steeped, and more encora on the board. that's in the state of ohio the same place where east palestine occurred. this is going to make things worse. the point is railroads are safe today. we want to make them safer, but there's work to do because even if you just look at how norfolk southern has handled things over the last two years, it seems like they're moving in the opposite direction. now, chair homendy, i was taken aback by the video you showed that it showed on fire, reading 103 degrees, and it did not trigger an alert.

this little thing on my finger takes my temperature, heart rate, availability and et cetera. if every wheel on a freight train had a sensor like that and transmitted to the locomotive engineer would that make trains safer? >> yes, it would make trains safer. >> mr. bose, would this technology providing cons standpoint real-time measurement be more effective than wayside detectors. >> yes, sir. >> mr. sloan, would your customers benefit from having real time location and car health data on their shipment and on the cars hauling this across the country in. >> we believe that on board sensors have the potential to provide additional safety benefits, but i think there's a lot of work to develop them-- >> i'm not asking you about that. i'm asking about safety. would it benefit your customers to know where their cars are and whether they're healthy? >> yes. >> yes. >> right.

mr. rubing arouca, would your customers know the health and sate of their rail cars to make repairs at the terminals. >> absolutely. >> and mr. hynes, would this data make our trains safer across america? >> yes. >> this is the kind of innovation included in this bill. this is innovation that will make railroads safer that mr. will move this forward. and that's why the bill is bipartisan and we ought to get support not just from the groups represented up here, but from the class ones as well. thank you, mr. chairman, i'll yield back. >> thank you, mr. moulton, it's an honor to work with you. i recognize you for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. for the panel, how practical is it, start with ms. homendy, to every rail car has

approximately eight wheels that would be monitored under what mr. moulton is talking about with a data point on that. so, you'd have 800 pieces of data coming at the engineer, is that practical for an engineer to be monitoring that much data and still operate train? >> the data would probably go to the back office. it would not go to the engineer. >> all right. so is that manageable at that kind of distance with that amount of trains that are running across the country or something a little more halfway in between of what we have now with the railroad side heat temperature monitor versus a device on every single bearing on all rail cars. >> hot bearing detectors are effective, but we need more advanced technology to ensure greater safety. that would include acoustic bearing sensors and on board

sensors. >> last time wearied some follow-up questions with you on that, where bearings indicating 103 degrees, 115, burning up, obviously, is accurate information so were you able to find anything more additional on that particularly with the palestine one? >> yeah, for this one, it was-- so that bearing registered at 38 degrees at mile post 79.8. we know that it was registering at 103 degrees at just 10 miles later in salem, ohio, but we also know from video that it was on fire. so, 103 doesn't make sense as you mentioned. and that's because it takes-- it can take 30 to 60 minutes for the internal detect to result in the actual temperature, which was-- which could have been 253 at mile post 49, but that was the highest that would have sensed

at that time. >> thank you. >> let me shift to the coming back to the accident. there was the vast number of agencies that were part of the response. my figures, 48 different agencies were involved one way or the other at the time of the follow-up on that. is there-- how do you see we can have a better job of coordinating, maybe not have so many to deal with in a short amount of time. i'm bothered by a decision to burn the material in the rail car. >> are you referring to the vent and burn or the emergency response immediately after the derailment? >> immediately after. >> so immediately after the derailment, emergency responders need information. they need to know what's in those train cars to protect themselves and they need to know what's in there to protect communities and that's by getting the train from the railroad, by law it's their

requirement to provide that information to emergency responders. it is not unknown to a railroad what their network is, where their trains operate. they know when a derailment occurs. we have e-mail, sends that to the incident commander, in this case, the east palestine fire department they were incident command, but the incident -- the incident commanders did not have access to that train contents for hours and meanwhile, they were getting exposed to a significant hazardous materials release. i'll also mention, radio interoperability was a big issue. these agencies could not talk to each other and that can happen anywhere and something that i hope you'll address even in this bill. >> how do we improve this coordination. >> i'm sorry? >> how do we improve this

coordination information on what's on the rail cars and immediacy for those emergency folks? >> i don't think that ask rail is the answer, i don't, because there are so many communities across the united states that you may not have internet service or be able to access anything on your phone or even know to access anything on-- something on your phone. this is information, again, the railroads know what's moving on their network, they know who is on their network. they can provide that information. we e-mail all day long. they know when a derailment occurs. provide the information in a timely way to 911. it's not hard for them to do that. and they should be held accountable for doing that. >> they know this before the train leaves the yard, let alone having to worry about whether there's internet connection or not on site. what does it look like to have

that information relayed before the train even leaves its original point in picking up that chemical? >> they have the list. they have it both in electronic form and in paper form. >> why could that not be relayed down the line, i guess? >> it can, certainly when they know there's a derailment, they can provide that. >> even without a derailment, this should be coming through this town in this approximate time. >> they could, you might have overload of response and emergencies, when there isn't a derailment that occurs. when there is one, here is where i'll say, simsa required a final rule to be provided immediately so perhaps the deputy administrator would like to talk about that. >> the chairman might come after me for time.

>> we could have a second rebounded. >> and thank you, mr. chairman, to the witnesses and all this afternoon. with over 7500 miles of track in chicago land and many running through my district, the safety and public and rail workers is paramount matter for me and while rail is a fundamental pillar of chicago, it presents risks to communities. a couple of weeks ago we lost a union pacific rail employee named justin pender in a tragic accident in rail yard in my district. justin was only 27 years old and was riding a tank car when he was crushed by a passing car, train. my thoughts are with his family and friends in the wake of this tragedy. simply put, we must do better for our rail workers. while we have been awaiting the n.t.s.b. east palestine report, the findings tell us what we

already know, there is a systemic culture of putting profits over the safety of workers and the public. mr. arouca, your testimony points to a dramatic decline in the number of rail inspections, pressure to reduce inspection times and managers being docked or evaluations based on how many cars they tag for repairs. can you explain how these factors contribute to the culture that puts those profits over safety of workers and the public? >> thank you, congressman. yes there's largely a sentiment as the pro publica article and my testimony mentioned, but also noted in the fra's recent letter. it was a notable culture of harassment for managers. you are tasked with getting something out the door as quick

as possible. if you're the number defects starts rising above a certain threshold, whether that's found during inspections or actual detectors, there is a level where management says, no more, we're done, no more defects. well, that's not safe. you can't not find defects anymore, that doesn't mean-- that doesn't make them, poof, go away. they're still there. so we have to do something to alter the processes. alter the ways in which car men are i a loud to go out and inspect things and adequately checked before they head out the door. in the broader perspective, that the psr business model is well time at all costs. it means, all types of things are going to be shortened, inspections, lacing up hoses,

the number of actions, and i hope my friend mr. hynes will pipe in on that, that his members are harassed to shorten their time frames as well. none of that is safe. we believe these processes need to be addressed. >> thank you. chair homendy. although the wheel bearing that failed on the east palestine train was indicated in an alert, it was low priority alert and did not reflect the true condition of the bearing. in addition to this, n.t.s.b. indicated that the operational responses to bearing alerts is an issue in itself. is there a way to improve the accuracy of these alerts and in your opinion are real workers empowered to respond to alerts in a way that minimizes risk. >> well, in this case there was only one person working that desk at the time, norfolk southern had additional

personnel, they went down to one and now they've added more personnel, so having more personnel certainly could help. and here is-- with respect to our findings and our recommendations, our biggest recommendation is to the federal railroad administration to do research on bearings, including railroad responses to alerts, and thresholds and spacing, and then to develop regulations around that. >> and are rail workers empowered to report these things? >> well, we're currently doing a safety culture assessment of norfolk southern and that's one of the questions that we have, that we've done a survey of all of the norfolk southern's employees and looking at the responses now and one of the questions we have is are you empowered? do you feel empowered to report unsafe conditions and we're going to have to evaluate that.

so it's not a question i could answer right now, but will return back to you. >> we'll be looking forward. >> thank you, i'll yield back, mr. chair. >> the gentleman yields and i recognize mr. williams for five minutes. >> sorry. thank you, mr. chairman, i won't touch my microphone again. thank you all for your very detailed answers in response. i'm really trying to swim in the middle of all of these, you know, facts and details. just frankly, in the lens of looking at my own community. so, we're fortunate to have a significant investment by csx in my district, but that, of course, also brings the traffic and the rail lines with it and so the findings of this committee and your testimony are very important in syracuse, new york, in central new york.

and so that's real the context that i'm trying to understand that this touches a lot of families in my area. you know, i understand that accidents happen and could each of you that can answer this, what's the likelihood of a similar east palestine type accident, chemical car, derailment fire, happening in my district, in the lines in my community? >> congressman, it's hard to answer that exactly. i will say this, unfortunately we've learned a lot from east palestine. the industry has learned not to repeat the things that did or

did not happen there. >> anyone else? i would appreciate any other context? that's, by the way, helpful. >> i appreciate that, but the n.t.s.b. has invested numerous accidents over decades, that we've issued recommendations that we've repeated, repeated and repeated with zero actions by the railroads, by some regulators, so, yes, i can't quantify a likelihood for a number, but could it occur in your district? it could occur in any of your districts and we will be there, but, again, we'll probably have additional recommendations that we have issued previously. >> to follow up to that, are there any recommendations coming out of this particular accident that have been implemented widely and that should give my community more confidence in the rails? you know, based on the recommendations.

i understand that perhaps over decades, many haven't, but in this case, it sounds like there's been a lot of recommendations that have been implemented. can you comment on those. >> the deputy administrator might now want to take the time to talk about the final roll. >> did the comments about providing information to first responders in the event of an incident, that is something that congress directed us to do, but in talking to the firefighters and first responders and to echo the chairwoman's comments earlier, they didn't-- they didn't have access to the train contents until after they arrived on scene, while after they arrived on scene. what we're requiring the railroad have the information all the time get it to the 911 call centers, get it to the first responders and they have been able to respond. the other thing that congress has been paid attention to and

multiple bills that this committee has introduced, to phase out the d.o.t. 111's. which the n.t.s.b. chair emphasizes critically at issue and can significantly reduce the likelihood of a major incident occurring in your district. so, phasing out. that's something that our agency proposed requiring more than 10 years ago and, but requires congress taking action. >> if i could just add, we issued 34 new safety recommendations as a result of this investigation, none of them have been implemented. several of them have been reit lated and we have requested over decades to be addressed. >> congressman, fra is going to take those recommendations that n.t.s.b. has put forward and we will accept those recommendations and have already started action on that. one area where congressional legislation will be extremely

helpful and bills like the one the chairman and congressman moulton introduced and the ranking member, is an increase in fines, for violations of rail safety regulation. >> you know, often congress may be a bit of an accuse tri body, but occasionally a deliberative body so your comments are timely, thank you. >> the gentleman yields. i recognize an original co-sponsor. >> thank you, mr. chair and thank you for calling this hearing and for the good collaboration of work on this legislation which have helped folks can see is quite bipartisan and bicameral and we should get it passed. this should not be a fight, should not be one that we can't pass, and ip was encouraged to hear my counterpart in ohio east palestine and i represent the folks on the pennsylvania side impacted by that

derailment and i hope for the american people who have been watching, they understand that the federal representatives who represent those communities who could be any of our communities, are in the fight for rail safety for as long as it takes. what i've said all along, i know i'm not alone, i refuse to let my constituents be treated like collateral damage in the way of railroad profits. and the common sense measures we are debating today, i think it goes a long way to make sure they are not treated that way every again. and the risks are not hypothetical. i commissioned a congressional research report on my district. 95% of my constituents live within five miles of the tracks and nearly a half within a mile. this could happen in my district and plenty of other parts of the country as well. it's about nearly a year and a half since this derailment. one of the lines that i and others have told for a long time, the railroads could take care of this themselves and

operate more safely. look at the data, according to fra data earlier this year in 2023, that derailment happened the first part of 2023, we saw derailments increase by 13 1/2%. i introduced a railway safety act, i think one of the only bills that president trump and president biden have supported, and for this legislation we've got new momentum to finally get the legislation passed. chair homendy in the final n.t.s.b. report you recommended establishing recommendations on bearing detection systems and that's in the enhancement safety act. is it not. >> yes. >> and improvement for hazardous materials transported through communities like mines it happens when trains are properly designated as high hazard and that's in our legislation. >> yes and i might have technical requests on that to further improve it, but--

>> that's the hope for us to have a markup to make some of the changes and we do it. thank you. mr. arouca, you discussed, and hynes, as well, the average time for mechanical inspectors to perform inspections not enough time. we need to make sure that they need time for safety inspections and that's in our legislation. mr. hynes, you talked about advocating for two person crew minimums and what would happen if there were would be one person on our trains, that's in our legislation. my point we have to pass the darn bill. there are provisions in here that will keep folks safer, make rails safer and not just communities, but move things more safely on the rails. my constituents saw a toxic fireball fly over their houses after this derailment. one that shouldn't have happened. my constituents, neighbors in ohio are worried about the health of their families, drinking water, the air they

breathe, the land they grow their crops on. congress has yet to pass rail safety legislation. we're finally seeing momentum. i'll ask a very simple question down the line one i asked secretary buttigieg when he was here as well. ms. homendy, do you trust the big railroads to regulate themselves? >> i do not. >> no. >> no. >> no. >> not sure i'm qualified to answer that. >> fair enough. >> can i use a curse word to say-- no. no, absolutely not. >> i'm not sure i heard the question right. i can't hear because i'm a railroader. >> mr. hynes, do you trust railroads to regulate themselves? >> do i what? >> do you trust the railroads to regulate themselves? absolutely not. we have a 150-year record to look at. >> i'll yield back. >> i recognize for five

minutes, go ahead. >> thank you, mr. chair. i have a quick question and this is certainly an important hearing as we learned the lessons of what happened with the derailment. to the federal rail administrator, i represent a city in the mountains of california in recent years there have been-- there have been multiple derailment in the area and i've heard that local authorities in my community have now identified notification about the derailments. a timely manner. to improve communication between local authorities and the railroads, what is being done to let the local authorities know when they occur and what is the standard practice when derailments do occur, notification? >> congressman, in terms of notification on derailment, the railroad company is responsible for communicating that to the national response center and depending on the level of the derailment, fra dispatches,

investigators to the site, obviously emergency responders, local folks are alerted to that, as we've talked about, depending on the type of material that is on the train, e of material that is on the train so that emergency responders in the area, the state, has an idea of that. >> so, it's dependent on the material. so i do understand that with something that's highly flammable, they're required to notify the state's emergency response commission. but in any other instances, is there like a certain turn-around time they have to do it in or just the-- >> i can jump in here because last month we finalized new requirements that if the emergency responders are deployed to respond to a hazardous materials related derailment, then they're required to notify immediately

the 911 call injuries and they're also required to update the real time rail electronically and communicate that to first responders in the required to keep paper copies as well so the first responders could access that. >> if it's nonhazardous materials, is there a specific guideline? >> i've got to defer to us because we only deal with the hazardous materials. >> it depends on the level of derailment. >> can you spell that out? what are the shades of retailment? >> it depends on the number of cars. derailments can happen in all types and nature. it depends on the number of cars involved again, depends on the type of material on board. if there's a roadway involved, right, and a crossing involved and then obviously, if there

are houses nearby and schools and hospitals, so, again, it depends on the situation, but if it's the populated area, there should be automatic notification. >> okay. so to improve notification, the local community should work with the railroad. >> yes. >> okay, thank you. >> i yield back. >> the gentleman yields. i now recognize mr. johnson for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you ranking member for convening this essential hearing. >> thank you to the witnesses for your testimony today. the united states is renowned for having one of the most extensive rail networks in the world, however, this distinction comes with an equally immense responsibility to ensure the safety and efficiency of our rail system.

tragically, the recent incident in east palestine stands as a stark reminder of the devastating consequences of falling short of our obligation. this disaster wreaked havoc on the environment and placed countless lives at grave risk. while we have made some strides to elevate our safety measures through historic investments in the bipartisan infrastructure law, the number of rail incidents in 2023, surpass those in 2022, showing that the issue is not improving, it's clear that much more work needs to be done to address the vulnerabilities in our railroads. we must take decisive action to guarantee a safe, reliable, and robust freight and passenger rail network by our communities that truly lives up to its

extensive reputation. mr. arouca, in your testimony you mentioned that the transportation communication brotherhood of railway car men division represents approximately 10 car men nationwide. these assure compliance with safety standards but face time pressures that impact their ability to prioritize safety effectively. can you please elaborate on some of the most critical safety components that are often neglected due to time pressure? >> sure. thank you, congressman. one of the problems that you're looking for in the big key components. you're looking at the wheels, broken wheels, bent flanges, a little part of the steel wheel that keeps the train on the

track. you're obviously looking, in this hearing, bearings which do have a visual indication where they're failing, there's grease all over the trucks and the components. you're looking at the couplers, pins, all the safety appliances that make sure that mr. hynes' members can safely operate when they're delivering freight they don't fall off a ladder or a sill, or they can use a hand break. the car men don't have time to get to, most or some the times are railroads are putting our guys on atv's and having them drive alongside of the train. how much of a detailed inspection does that provide for? it's just insane. >> how does the inability to

perform full inspections specifically impact the safety and well-being of railroad workers? >> well, i -- it's pretty dejekting when you're trained to do something, and like they say, the only career they hire you to do a job and then fire you when you fail to do it. and fire you when you try to do it. and improve the lives of my car men so it's safer. >> if i could jump in, in terms of inspection, qualified mechanical inspections are the gold standard of inspections, there are certain situations where other crafts, mr. hynes, who is at the table represents

conductors, there are certain crafts that can do inspections, but they should be done on the limited, limited basis and special circumstances, that should not be the norm in terms of inspection. >> if i could follow up on that. we have been referring to as the loophole, the appendix d loophole is this part of the regulation, pre departure inspection that allows for a conductor to be able to go and inspect the train, inspect a set of cars, but that's designed for when you're out in the network picking up freight. these regs were written, you know, in the '80s, maybe-- in the era when you had 33, you were going inspections at every interchange and now we don't have that many interchanges anymore, so it's a whole different process, a whole different operation out there.

we've got to improve inspections and this legislation would do that. >> thank you, and i'll yield back. >> the gentleman yields. i now recognize who was also an original co-sponsor. >> i would like those on the panel to stand up if they're involved in-- they were all invited and they're not here and that's shameful. that's not okay. i represent a little town called desoto, wisconsin, we had record flooding last april. i called the railroad on the 21st of april said i'm uncomfortable with the condition of the tracks due to flooding takes place and the railroad essentially patted me on the hand, on the phone.

and don't worry, we know what we're doing. and several days later there was stf rail cars floating down the mississippi that almost hit a dam and could wipe out hundreds of dollars of restoration. and needless to say we don't have a good relationship at this point. and they are not an entity unto their own, they're irresponsible, they're not receptive to any type of -- any type of input that i've seen and it's got to stop. i'm a retired navy seal senior chief. and you don't go anywhere without a buddy. to tell that there's going to have one person on the train,

no. i'm a republican, and that's silly. i want to thank mr. bose and ms. homendy for being so responsive, and you're johnnie on the spot, or janey on the spot and i thank you. has anyone been fired, reassigned, counseled or demoted for the errors that took place in east palestine? >> not that i am aware of, but i might not be aware. >> okay. mr. bose fra. >> i'm not aware of any. >> has anybody, anybody-- i don't think so. ma'am, you have repeatedly stated that your agency has repeatedly given very specific

safety recommendations to the railroads and that they are blowing you off, is that correct? >> we have currently with 17 open rail safety recommendations to norfolk southern alone. we have eight to all class one railroads and several of them have been open for many years, overall, we have 215 open rail safety recommendations many of which have been ignored. >> okay, so the railroads by ignoring your safety recommendations are putting these friends, colleagues at risk along with the vast majority of my constituents. so my grandkids four of them live about three blocks away from the railroads tracks and i want to be super clear, i love the railroads, if you don't love the railroads, you don't live in prairie. we have trains all the time and only difference between east palestine and what took place in desoto, they weren't hauling pol at the time. that would have been my

grandkids' house essentially. so, i have to-- we have to come to a place where these railroads understand that they must be responsive in your agencies. do you have any type of recourse when they blow you off? >> we do not. fra has enforcement authority, however. >> what does that mean, sir? >> congressman, that means that when we find violations or noncompliance with our regulations, we issue fines and we settle those fines. they have an ability to object and we reach a settlement. >> would you, sir, do me a favor, would you get me a list of fines this are lev yid. >> the fines that are issued are settled, they can be settled pennies on the dollar. >> that's what i'm getting it.

i want to see what was submitted and what they paid. the railroads need to be put in check and that's what we're here to do. ... >> answers question if you want. >> i want to say thank you for bringing up the issue repeatedly now on more company for more inspectors out in the field. we need more cops on the beat and we need them to be more efficient. one of the things i mention in my testimony is the laborious nature of a violation for one single violation. if you look to the fra's study, you will see for whatever it was, 1400 defects found, 47

violation. every single one of those defects is technically a violation. it takes inspector out of the field and into an office to write a mountain of paperwork and takes them away from where they're needed out in the field. why don't we have something that's like for a police officer riding a ticket, a parking ticket, a speeding ticket to make the entire thing much more efficient and also give some teeth to the cops the need to be out there. >> thank you, sir. i now recognize for five minutes, ms. photius. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you to the panel is here today. we appreciate you being here. the ntsb report found that 25% of the cars on the train that derailed it is palestinian contain defects, even though federal regulations require that trains breaks must have no defects before it is allowed to depart. unfortunately a recent fra study

on freight rail car inspection times found inspection times average a shockingly low 22 seconds per side for each railcar that, over 14% of the breaks are defective while the trait is operating. at adminiistrator bose, why are railroads allowed to operate trains that don't meet federal safety standards, and what consequences should railroads face for dispatching trains that don't meet safety standards? >> congresswoman, thank you for the question. railroads are expected to have inspection testing and maintenance programs to ensure compliance with fra regulations. fra monitors for compliance with federal safety requirements and we pursue enforcement action when necessary. and so we do issue civil penalties anytime we find noncompliance.

>> mr. arouca, , i had been a me aware that inspection porters utilizing ai are being tested by number of railroads and third parties. in your testimony you acknowledge this technology has the capacity to improve rail safety and increase the effectiveness of inspections if used properly. where does your union stand on these technologies? and with the help minimize the risk of accidents like the one that occurred in east palestine? >> thank you, congresswoman. yes, as mentioned in my testimony are a number of technologies that exist that the railroads are either lightly deploying or testing, or using improperly, such as these digital inspection of portals. these are big camera rings. they have high-speed cameras that capture hundreds, thousands of images per second. and then use machine vision and

machine learning to actually try to identify defects. what we would like to see in the industry is that information be given directly to a carman in the yard as a train is coming in so they have, imagine and ipad on your wrist and you sitting there saying i have got defects in cars 110, 28, et cetera. unfortunately unfortunately that's not what's happening now. the camera rings that are deployed of ink used to discipline the carman after-the-fact. so after the train departs. so in essence what i'm trying to get across is they are simultaneously restricting down the time of our carman can actually expected these cards and then disciplined them on the backend using these fancy tools. even the companies that built these things are telling the railroads this is not how it's meant to be deployed.

so we would like to see some improvements there. contrary to what some folks think, , labor unions are not against technology. we want it to be used correctly. so we want to access to that defect detector network data comes are, that type of data and imaging but also the rest of the data that the defect detectors catch throughout the country. lastly, i will say the mechanical desks at these railroads are very, very short staffed. the exception i think is when you visit, chair nehls, and homewood. i would say that doing quite good. anybody else has one guy looking at the entire networks, defect detectors, one guy. streams of e-mails come dancing hotbox here, kip reeder impact of air, or look at this imaging. it's not a realistic concept to

expect one individual at any one point to be looking at an entire nation, sorry, or at least an entire network of defect detectors. >> so as you just touched on, this technology is currently unregulated and, unfortunately, disasters like east palestinian are the result of allowing the railroads to self regulate. there's currently no requirement for where this i enhanced knowledge e should be deployed, or how it's used or who should be interpreting the data. as this technology continues to develop and implement it, what types of regulations or safeguards should there be put in place to ensure that the railroads are maximizing the effectiveness of this technology and thereby increasing rail safety outcomes? just to follow up on what you

just explain to. >> thank you. so two things. one of the things, with all defect detectors we don't think you should allow to turn them off when the inconvenient comforts of formals. secondly with regards to these fancy camera portals, we think the imaging is best placed and has a people that know what to do with it. the qualified mechanical inspector which is the regulatory firm for carmen, these guys spend their entire lives looking defects on railcars. if they were able to have this brand-new amazing ai driven technology placed directly in her hands it would be much more effective, efficient, and would make the entire network safer. but we have to have regulations or laws to make that, so. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> gentlelady's time i now recognize mr. johnson for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. east palestine obviously was a

tragedy and in the wake of tragedies, so many of us feel the need to just we got to do something. and, of course, all decisions have trade-offs. that's one of the rules of the universe. all regulations impose costs on consumers and to rather then just do something obviously want to move forward with prudence and with wisdom. we want to make sure that which we do actually improves life for society. i want to spend time thinking about what is the right path forward, chair homendy, for you. 34 recommendations on what most people think is a pretty good piece of work that you all did. most of them don't deal with legislative action of course. some do. how would you prioritize which of the legislative approaches would you most highly prioritize? >> for legislation? >> yes. >> i, you know, i would defer that to you all as the legislative body, but there are many recommendations that we've issued over number of years. one in particular on d.o.t. 111

tank cars and i would say it was an accident in leicester ville south dakota involving the use of 111 tank cars in 2015. here we we have recommended doing something about it since 1991 1991 a no action has been taken. so that's one. we have additional areas we recommend that action be taken. >> specifically among the 34 recommendations, i mean rater to legislative activity which of those which are most highly prior to? >> and aggressive phaseout of the dot 111 tank cars is in there. an expansion of the face of deity 111 tank cars and all hazardous material service. locomotives were quarters similar action taken by this committee for the faa bill is for recorders that would recommend that here and so action has been taken.

the are number of areas. >> i mean, a couple things that were not in the report is limiting train links and two-man crews, two person crews. they were not included. why? >> the cause of this derailment was a failed debating. was a 9300-foot train, and it wasn't a factor in the derailment. >> not directly involved in the tragedy? >> correct. >> at adminiistrator bose, turning to you, as the churches mentioned, overheated bearings created an actual separation. have we seen railroads installed wayside detectors since this tragedy? >> they had been installing detectors. >> do we have a sense of what kind of pace that installation

moves at? >> in norfolk southern's case it sped up and they deployed more of them. in other railroads cases its railroad by railroad. but the technology detectors and the space between detectors, the distance between detectors as something of railroad are paying attention to. one more part of that. it's not just deploying. it's the training around that, the maintenance, the operation and then when the information comes in to have it properly resourced at the desk level and then disseminated that information in a timely manner. at the threshold, the threshold are important of what set off alerts. >> one of the ntsb recommendations was for the fra to further investigate bearing defect detection systems. is it the fra's intention to do so? and where are we at?

>> congressman, yes, and we are. >> any additional detail you could provide? >> we had been working on that through the railroad safety advisory committee, a committee that we reinvigorated under this administration, a body for consensus drives the day. we're hopeful there can be a productive product that comes out of that. there is a range of detectors. >> i think were tied to get at a time when due. i understand that the body, but i mean every looking at three months come six months, ten months? >> i can't commit to an exact timeframe. we are it. let me tell you something else, congressman, are talking about regulations. we are proposed five regulations in recent years. four four of them are in litn or have petitions for reconsideration. so when you talk about the industry, talk about timely, talk about regulation, you need

to build in the opposition that we get from the industry when we tried to do productive things. >> mr. chair, i yield back. >> thank you. i now recognize mr. menendez, five minutes. >> thank you, chairman. thank you to our witnesses today for the testimonies which provided an honest and sobering insight into the state of real safety today in america. derailment and east palestine a year and ethical force thousands of residents to evacuate. fortunately, an event like that can happen at any time anyone -- unfortunate. that's why so many of our colleagues recall security care so deeply about how we move forward. railroads operating high hazard flammable trains are required to inform state state emergee officials of the frequency traveling through their state. develop spill response plans. however the train derailed in east palestine did not fit the definition of an h hft and say

classified as general merchandise train. mean it was not subject to the same regulation as hh ftes per window general merchandise train sometimes carry hazardous materials of various kinds and we saw firsthand the kind of damage they can cause. chair homendy, to general merchandise trains that carry hazardous materials pose a risk to people or the environment? >> yes. >> expanding the scope of houses which is subject to increased safety regulations prevent future tragedies like the one in east palestine? >> i'm sorry, can you repeat that? >> of course. could expanding the court of hazardous materials subject to increase safety regulations prevent future tragedies like the one is posting? >> absolutely. >> how quaint sure state and local emergency responsible officials are informed and prepared to handle hazardous materials traveling through their states even if that train is classified as a general merchandise train?

>> they need to be prepared. they need information on what's going to the communities which we have recommendations on an phmsa has done some work on recently. and they need gear. they need greater interoperability have any training. >> the training is probably one of the largest items because it depends on the community are involved in. it's ideally not something you are dealing with frequently, if ever. ensuring as your members move through and retire and you have new members brought on board to have to have access to the training to ensure that at any given moment there prepared to handle that situation. your chest when he goes into detail about the fra's investigation class one safety classes and findings sound alarms that your members have been sounding for years. in contrast, many class one claim safety is a number one priority. let's take them at their word. how can we ensure that if, in

fact, safety is a number one priority that they stay committed to that? despite whether there's a change in administrations, whether time has stated the pain of what happened in east palestine, which it never should, how can we work together to ensure we're always creating the safest in class experience for not just the operators but the communities that they operate through? >> thank you, congressman. that's the big question. laws, first and foremost, statute, passing this legislation would be a huge step in the right direction. regulations can always be challenged, waived, amended. it's a little bit more cemented in permanence when you pass a law to say this is how it's got to be from now on. so first and foremost i would say pass this bill. the senate bill or chair nehls

bill. we have a lot of things we can do in this industry to improve. in a large since the railroads need to be compelled to get there. as we all kind of our most as mentioned earlier the railroads don't do things on their own accord. you have to drag them into the future. it's a weird industry practice but it's long been that way, whether it's defect detectors, do inspection systems, new technologies that are being tested. we see all the time, but somehow are not really making into the industry they could make things wildly safer. we need to get there and we need legislation like this to help push the industry in the right direction both for the benefit of my members to work with them but also every single community that our trains roll through. none of us want to see another east palestine or you know, we

need to safety first mindset and right now in the psr era it safety last. >> i agree with you completely. what i know about blogs is they can be made stronger and also be made weaker. that's why think it's important and ideal, keeping archimedes sickened worker safe and assuring safety is a number one priority. not after tragedy but every single day. thank you and to give expert gentleman just. i know recognize mr. yakym for five and. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. chair homendy, i want to say publicly to you i want to say privately during the recent briefing to us, simply a thank you for your detail and thorough investigation on east palestinian. >> thank you i'm glad were having this hearing on east palestine derailment but of what to commend the chairman in particular for holding this hearing at the right time. and that is after the

investigations have been complete and the reports have been published, rather than before hand as many called for. it's bit of have all of the facts than to rely on speculation and educated guesses. and now that we do have the facts and the reports in hand i want to revisit some of the initial assertions. on multiple occasions in the weeks after the derailment transportation secretary pete buttigieg connected the derailment to the withdrawal by the previous administration of an electronically controlled pneumatic, or ecp, breaking roll, arguing the rules returned in the wake of the derailment. you tweeted early on in your investigation that withdrawing this role have no bearing on east palestine derailment. getting think in your investigation change that assessment? >> what i said was ecp breaks have no bearing on this investigation. what happened in east palestine. >> thank you. fact you would so far as to

label secretary buttigieg assertion on the withdrawal of the ecp role as quote misinformation. yet even at this evidence secretary buttigieg continued to insist that this was a policy change needed to prevent another derailment like we saw in east palestine. chair homendy doesn't make a jump easier or harder whistling and position of authority like the transportation secretary tresses forward in making an initial snap maybe political misleading policy perception even after being fact checked s you did publicly? >> actually at the time i was agreeing with him because he was talked about improving rail safety and you talk about ecp brakes because people brought up that they should come that the dot should have met the rule on ecp brakes, edited now the regulatory authority. i was agreeing with him on that. >> so and your public tweet fiber 16 of 2023, you say some are saying ecp raking rule if it would've prevented this derailment.

this is false and here's why. you then went on to say that leads me to my last point, anyone speculate about what happened didn't happen or should that happen is missing a suffering community. please misinformation. -- >> i was referring to the secretary. >> okay, very good. and then can you also talk about, earlier talked about the need to go to or remove the face at the d.o.t. 111 tank cars. do you believe there is manufacturing capacity to meet an earlier deadline should that accelerate? >> i not an expert on a manufacturing capacity, but fra has looked and things that looked at the manufacturing capacity for d.o.t. 111 tank cars and whether they can be replaced. >> is it anyone else would like to comment on the manufacturing capacity? sometimes we tend to do income is issue these mandates to phase out or facing certain things but we don't always look at the manufacturing capacity to make sure the marks have the ability to comply for is anyone who would like to comment on that?

>> if i could weigh in. the railcar industry has indicated there is potential capacity to accelerate the deadline for finishing the phaseout of d.o.t. 111 cars or flammable liquids, tension up to a year earlier. we think that's the best data that is available right now. >> iq, and mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you. i now recognize ms. sykes my belief is an original sponsor of this legislation. >> thank you, mr. chairman. yes, i am. i want to say thank you to you and ranking member wilson for holding this hearing today and allowing me to join you. as you all know it's been over your sense the norfolk southern train drama completely upended the spouse and community, a committee that borders my district. after more than a year of empty excuses and some request from

offices and pleats in the people of east policy we finally have a hearing on rail safety. however i am disappointed to see today the witness table is missing a representative from norfolk southern. the entity responsible for bringing us together today. last month the national transportation safety board held a a hearing to share the findings, probable cause and policy recommendations from their year and half long investigation into the derailment. this investigation confirmed the probable cost of the derailment was a a defective wheel bearig that was overheated. ntsb provided detailed policy recommendations on how to dress rail safety and close regulation gaps. thank you for that, chair homendy, to make sure i take a moment to say thank you and your team. while '06 attitude that ntsb was successful in finding the root cause of this disastrous derailment, i was particularly disturbed with the contents of chairwoman homendy close remarks at the board hearing.

her remarks detail a startling pattern of manipulation and destruction of investigation evidence, dishonesty towards investigators and disregard for basic and vesicular ethics that raise serious questions about the motives behind norfolk southern's actions during and after the derailment. chairwoman homendy could you please detail some of the unusual behavior that was exhibited by norfolk southern during your investigation? have you ever witnessed anything like this before on your investigation? >> we have not. this was unprecedented. norfolk southern while open and transparent in providing as information when requested when we requested it many times delayed providing our investigators, who are here today, timely access to that information. i had to call them about issuing subpoenas if we didn't get time information. they manufactured evidence that had nothing to do with this derailment and try to include in

the record of our investigation. when our investigative investigator in charge told them no three times, he's here today, they went around our investigator in charge and tried to get our general counsel to approve that, who also denied them. then they came to five presidential appointees, including me, asking us to overrule our investigator in charge and direct him to include evidence that was actually not evidence from this derailment in our investigation. and i could continue on but it was unprecedented. alan shaw apologized and has committed to not do that, not have norfolk southern do that, do that again because we had 11 open investigations involving norfolk southern. four of those are still open, including a safety culture investigation. we still have to work with them but his commitment is being

taken, will be taken seriously. if i sent that we go back to what occurred in east palestine conklin hold them accountable. >> thank you, madam chairwoman and hopefully this committee will do so well. do so as well. it is clear that through your investigation additional questions have been raised about the actions of norfolk southern and it is imperative the record people have the opportunity to hear from alan shaw president and ceo of norfolk southern a friend to apologize on behalf of his company to the american people and specifically of the folks at east palestine. so i do hope, mr. chair, mr. shaw will be called before the full transportation infrastructure committee to answer questions regarding the derailment in east palestine and norfolk southern's perspiration and ntsb investigation in the future we do have a letter to request that that has been sent to the chairman of the full committee. we must additionally assure rail corporations are fully held accountable for their actions the damage innocent communities

and their lies across the political spectrum. we all agree on this from the biden-harris administration and previous commonsense rail safety is a priority here continue with efforts to all of the will of the people and pass rail safety legislation on clad two-parter with chairman nehls, representative moulton, deluzio and others on the railroad safety enhancement act and this will help to many of those things that we talked about in the real safety act as well as the rail act. one provision that's not in this act but was in the rail act was the requirement of the safety placards and the train cars which were an awful lot about. i know i'm short on time and maybe i will submit this in riding, but madam chairwoman i do want to take any extra second -- to say thank you ginger to for being steadfast, unwilling to waiver and standing up for the people of northeast ohio from bottom my heart and on behalf of ohio's 13th

congressional district i say thank you. >> thank you so much and thank you for your leadership on safety. >> the gentlelady used. i now recognize mr. moolenaar for by this. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank her for being a to do and think the chair for his leadership on this issue and today's hearing. obviously many of us i'll watch what occurred in east palestine thinking what if it was our community? not to diminish in fact, although citizens in their communities but to those of us who represent cities, towns, villages with a similar rail traffic, all stood in horror and with great center i represent binghamton new york and was not only concerned but alarmed. could this happen in our neighborhood? the disaster east palestine as we noted, you all the columns called by number of issues. my colleagues have gone through a good number of them today. one that frightened me in the aftermath and still contributed as a lack of communication and

coordination between layers of governments response. of course the company itself. chair homendy, first, thank you and the ntsb for two minutes and out of work. i appreciate the chairman commitment to getting this information, the report on, the investigation completed and then moving forward. i want to speak directly to the controlled burn and what ntsb found. could you speak to the timeline for communication for deciding when the controlled burn should have occurred? as busy as you could. >> that was a decision not by ntsb. >> of course. >> conversations from our investigation, conversations related to the event and burn from norfolk southern, its contractors and foxy finals, the shipper. began around the forthcoming federal fourth, february 5.

foxy finals was on scene on the fifth and already on the fifth norfolk southern had begun to bring equipment in, , planning a bit and burn before incident command or the government had even signed off. so norfolk southern makes the determination that the likely outcome. when and who finally made the decision to move forward with the controlled burn? >> the information was provided to the incident commander and incident commander is a fire chief east palestine. but you make your decisions based on complete information. unfortunately norfolk southern withheld critical information from both him and the governor they could've led to a safer decision. >> having spent 30 years involved with local emergency responses, volunteer firemen come member ahmad ballinger fire department and the last 12 years and emergency management i know the incident commander makes the

decision but i clearly it is clear to us that that individual was forced into making a decision absence of information. but do we believe that that individual, i understand that officially the responsibility. do we believe that individual made the decision or was expected to make that decision? >> the individual did make the decision. however, at the time there was a false sense of urgency that norfolk southern and its contractors created. you can see it throughout the documentation. you can see it in news releases that were issued that were just not factually correct. based on temperatures that were already falling and stabilize all those tank cars. unfortunately, they were misled in their decision-making. in the end norfolk southern gave the incident commander and the governor 13 minutes to make that

final decision. and the incident commander asked to go through the information over and over again, and finally had to make the decision, , butt was based on inaccurate, incomplete information. >> going back to the fun of this nation, emergency response is supposed be led by emergency responders and no one else. in your report you further speak to the lack of information and resource sharing at the emergency response level. whether or not those first responders have the adequate information to immediately respond, right, to the incident to begin with and then information available to them to make choices on the ground. can you touch and ntsb's recommendations for ensuring first responders have greater access to and are prepared to respond to incidents of this nature? >> yes. we issued a recommendation for number of years regarding rail train consist information, real

train information for emergency responders which the pipeline and hazardous materials safety administration already issued a final rule on. but in addition to that we saw and need to highlight in our recommendations training, especially for volunteer firefighters and radio interoperability which was a big issue for responders for thank you, chair. thank you. try join on overtime. i want to say since 9/11 of 2001 we've talked about interoperability and church medication, and we have failed significantly even since. it's a problem they really hamstrings emergency response. god bless them and thank you. >> i now recognize ms. titus for five min. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for letting me sit in on this committee. across the country we've seen trains just grow in length. it's amazing to me now, class one railroads are running trains that can be up to four miles long. mr. hynes, i wonder if you would, on that?

are those trains less safe and does smart 113 support the federal government having a larger role to play in the regulation of these traits, especially those those that are carrying hazardous waste for hazardous material? >> anybody who is been blocked by a train can say that a four-mile long train is a problem. for obvious reasons. they cut cities and have come especially rural communities. one of these trains stopped in the city, that's how is cut in half. emergency vehicles, , you're having a heart attack, you need to get the hospital, it's on the other side of the train, oh well. as far as just how obvious it is that it's a bad idea. it creates so much more force because the trains are so much heavier. they are longer and the railroads think that if they put some distributed power in the middle of the train that we're

good to go. what they don't report on and what's not collected is how often these knuckles break, you know, the knuckles to hold the course together, and the draw bars did foldout, and this happened regularly. another thing would require to two people to change a knuckle. you have to have an engineer, a conductor, a lot of the stuff. it's just so strange to me that they just want bigger and bigger. instead of running two trains,, the combining them into one train just by connecting them. or even three trains or more. and the derailment numbers don't go down, even though they're running fewer trains, they are longer trains and the derailment numbers don't go down. so, i mean, it's not a good idea for so many reasons. i do want to bring all your

time. >> may i add? we investigated a terrible tragedy involving two u.p. trays, a standing train and moving train in granite canyon wyoming in 2018 and found the length of the train was an issue. it lost breaking capabilities, emergency breaking capabilities, crested, as a crested a and went down and descended 13 miles, it was increasing in speed all the while the train crews were trying to get breaking back and put on the emergency breaking. in the end the train hit 55 miles an hour and slammed right into a u.p. standing train and the locomotive engineer and conductor both died. we found in that that one of our finding was the length of training camp of the train was a factor and it was 103 cars. >> congresswoman, , as you know there's no federal regulation that restricts train length.

at fra under my watch we make sure to collect data about train length so that the process is more transparent and we have data available to take action on that. having said that, we are not waiting for the data to come in. we issued a safety advisory on train length. we have also issued a safety advisory on the makeup of trains because the also factors into this. we are taking action that we can under the authorities that we had to address the situation. but communities are experiencing this and we're not sitting idly by. >> you wouldn't oppose federal regulation or legislation to help you in that effort? >> aced on the data that we are gathering right now, it something we should definitely take a look at. >> yeah, i think so. as you said it's kind of so obvious that it's kind of you don't need the date and declination but it's there to support that conclusion.

speaking of regulation, i know that the fra finalize an important role ricketts been mentioned before about the two-man crew. i think these things kind of go together and i've been pushing for a two-man crew for several years now and i know our rule was finished and it's somewhere in limbo out there. i know in the legislation we want to see a two-man crew. it's about person issued. administrator, would you comment on that way that stand? >> congresswoman, thank you for asking that question. i'm proud to be the administrator that got a final rule done on minimum crew size. a significant step forward for safety in the railroad industry. as you know without that rule, railroads could go to one person or below without that rule in place. so it's an important step forward. i also know we been taught but east palestinian. i'm confident in saying the

community, the people who represent east palestinian our match better knowing that there's more than one person, or there was more than one person on that crew. >> thank you. in one. >> gentlelady's time i now recognize mr. d'esposito, original sponsor of the legislation. >> thank you, mr. chairman. throughout your testimony you mention that carmen are under intense pressure to perform inspections quickly. often having to choose which components to inspect due to time constraints. with up to 15% of railcars found to contain and fra defect, how does limiting inspection time affect the safety of the rail system as a whole? >> well, i would say -- well, thank you for the question. i was a much of what i've talked about today, which is you can't put a time constraint on safety. if you do that, people are going to miss things, the matter who's

actually inspecting the cars. but it's also important to make sure the right person for suspect in the cars. i'm not sure if your earlier but we can't i printed off this. these are the regulations that the carmen are held to, the standard that the carbon are held to in these of the other crews. it's night and day the amount they have to respect to the level, the regulatory standard. if you harass anybody to inspect too fast, , they're going to mis things. it's kind of obvious. >> if i missed it i apologize but can you discuss or share with us any specific instances where an adequate inspection time has possibly lead to an accident or a near miss? >> that would be hard for me to disclose because of the confidential nature of those things for my members. i assure you i have plenty of stories but it would want to really talk about them.

>> kenji came to describe we effect of limiting the inspection time has on the workers and the morale? >> it's incredibly depressing as a mentioned earlier imagine being hired to do a job and then being told not to do it. it's very insulting. you train all your life for this thing. you spend three years, 732 working days to go from an apprentice carmen to a journeyman. when you. when you get there they say, if you find the facts were going to disappoint you. no more defects, no more defects. you got a target on your back. it's not necessarily for finding a defect that they're going to disappoint you. it's for everything else. put your shoes untied, i've heard of guys getting written up for changing their hat over to a safety helmet. i mean, wiping their safety glasses. really just heady stuff. but that's what happens when you

get a target on your back, you don't fall in line. >> now you also mention in your testimony that fra conducted a study that found when inspectors were present carmen average one minute and 44 seconds per car inspection. however, when inspectors were not present, carmen were only given about 44 seconds per car to inspect. what measures do you think could be at the meant to ensure consistent safety practices? >> you could pass this law that would make it illegal to prohibit or to enforce any kind of time constraint upon the carmen. as i've said before you can't put a time constraint on safety. i will also note in , in the a study there were remarks from specific fra inspectors in there where they talked about how one, you know, this effort inspector

walked behind a carmen doing his job. they found a whole bunch of defects, ten, 17, whatever combined between the two of them in one train. then he looks at the fra inspector, pulls up the records of that railroad, in the previous 24 hours they only found three the whole day. it's just not realistic. it's not the truth. something is going on. this kind of type of legislation has been a long time coming. >> congressman, if i could step in, fra administrator. when mr. arouca, is like the what the railroad from his information did, that's absolutely unacceptable. anytime fra sees that a railroad is a gaming the system, is gaming the inspection process that we have the oversight that we have, we are going to take action on that. it was a railroad the found out about our safety culture assessment and the questions we're going to ask in that

assessment, as soon as we found withdrew that safety culture assessment of that railroad and made it clear that's unacceptable. >> my times expired, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> thank you. the gentleman yields. are there any further questions from the members of the subcommittee that is not been recognized? seeing none, we have votes here i see on the screen. this concludes are heading for today. i want to thank each and everyone of you for being here. i thought this, this was a very productive meeting and this subcommittee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] about.

[silence]

[silence] in. [silence] vice president. she started talking about what they really do. care service so desperately needed. all these things planned. spent two years and its

affiliates. and to get away with people united states. in the past that it's one of those states with a total bail in the nation's sophomore about that. and be on that's what the fact is the child was and vice

president troubling the country for two years speaking truth about how horrific it is. it's not just about freedom. this is one issue in your effort

the vice president for women's reproductive health care. we thank you for making that commitment. people don't realize how important it is the kind of support and hear from our director for civil rights because the director and i think it is important understand the

reason is so important because not just access to abortion care but in general and losing access to care we are putting at risk their lives in from the state of texas we don't believe anyone diminish, we don't think they are surviving, we don't want to go back but that is where we are and that's why it's been very exotic. we must restore the rights that

we have. we are creating all of those in the think we will have the second gentlemen forget. perhaps you will story. >> i was an abortion provider for about five years. became illegal at one time and stayed for a little while and

there was a case resident not doing this anymore. when they ask you for that, they don't need to like and they get on a plane and that is breaking my hippocratic oath and not going to do this. i left and i didn't know it was going to work and i found out that it is incredibly hard and from the ground up now that i'm here, they are pulling from all over the country. coming from unities every now

and then and then we come back and i was doing really good job and it went well for them but what did all those people have? i knew i would put myself in a place and build out that access. one of the things i see when it was overturned there are more abortions. you know what's going to happen. you may decide abortion right

now. i had so many patients i was shocked tommy after abortion, federal if i would have done this if this was an illegal. maybe i would have made it into the pregnancy, baby the pregnancy is what i want. none of this did what they thought it would. may the entire situation worse, the ripple effect and it will continue to happen. >> in these complaints what they are entitled to give us the story.

the public health letter the senior medical in the clinical trial and i'm really fortunate and the provider was right there in chicago and because of that, i not only had screening and i worry they will not have the opportunity i had years of. it is unconscionable.

>> thank you so much. pre-student, things are very different and how out front of open. also is a live physician and a network, i really saw abortion controlling the narrative so i made a personal decision in

addition to delivering high quality is going to address head on the statement. december 2022 site announced my practice. ... such a wonderful learning experience because my name, my face was website. i'm very proud about what i do. i deliver first trimester abortion care fight alongside comprehensive family medicine managing anxiety, diabetes, sprained ankles. not because of looking to atone for the abortion care i provide but to demonstrate this care is incredibly safe and it is

broadly needed across every reproductive demographic in this country. since we've opened we have served not only families in richmond, virginia, but from all over the country. folks have taken the first plane ride to get an abortion with me in richmond, virginia. that come from texas, wisconsin, florida. one of the things they tell us again and again is the actually chose our clinic because of her website, because my face was there, my name. there's a lot of unknown around abortion care. it's been unsafe for abortion providers to be upfront about what they're doing and it takes a really seriously. the payoff here is folks know they're coming to see some of the looks like she could be there sister or their friend. it's really just wonderful to see the relief on peoples faces. i hope of the family doctor in this country realizes at minimum to have the skills needed to provide abortion by pill and if we all provide it opened in our clinics, and takes with all the pop out of the counter argument

for abortion care. >> great point. sonata the director of our office for civil rights at the department of health and human services, melody. >> thank you, mr. secretary, sacajawea. among officers who worked at the is department health and human services. my deputy bricks of rights and health care and to protect medical privacy. so those are two pretty big jobs especially right now, thanks to the leadership of secretary and vice president harris we and around the country having conversations with patients and providers and students and advocates, at a lot of those stories stick with me at night and sugar stick with the vice president and the secretary and the second gentleman. they don't go away. hearing someone say they couldn't get care, they had to in the car with with the bt more is pretty barbaric. that's why i'm so proud were able to do all the work we're doing. as some of you i shared my story earlier this year. i was privileged enough to ivf.

i became pregnant with twins. i know some is make a face. i suffered a miscarriage, it's awful. then i was fortunate enough to have safe legal abortion care in maryland. at no point in the process was i worried my medical records with your weaponized against me. at no point was i worried that i was going to be shame for the care that i received. and, in fact, i was doing this on working on regulations to help women all across the country whether it's the civil rights or through privacy to protect them. that story needs to be shared because miscarriage is a very, healthcare, and it is healthcare. women across the country it happens to them everyday. it's so important for women like me to uplift that's right because there are women across the country who do not get to share their story, who do not get the opportunity to sit in tables like this and let that opportunity. that's why i'm so grateful we put out a rule earlier this year under this president and this vice president leadership to show medical records for being weaponized to hurt patients. when women seek lawful reproduction health care, people

cannot going fishing expeditions into the records, that they feel safe with a talk to the doctor. they know the doctor is 90 information. another doctor will would y can to protect them. when i need follow-up care even if i have to travel somewhere i feel safe going into emergency room or to a clinic to get that care. we all know healthcare so important to women everywhere and we know making sure your privacy is protected is critically important at the moment. so thank you to you stack to burst out of for allowing us the space to do this. it's important and appreciate the opportunity. >> we have a bit of time. we have little time. i'll ask you to chime in that give any thoughts would like to get the second gentleman in. >> thank you all for sharing your stories. i know it's hard to do it and i know it's rushing. but where we hear? we are here because of the former president. the former president who ran on a platform that one, when it

should be punished, those words came out of his mouth, and they talked about nominating supreme court justices that would overturn roe v. wade. and that's exactly what he wanted and that's exactly what he got. so let's be honest here. this is on the former president, the guy who wants to run for president get a platform of taking is us backwards. this is a perfect example of just taking us backwards. and you talked about, , like my mother, same thing. when i heard the news about dobbs, the first person to call it was vice president and she said, and we knew it was coming but it was such a shock. she said, ducky, the actually did it. the actually did it. she was enraged. click wishes on done the last few years. next message i got was from my been 23 old daughter, now 25

saying i'm angry. we need to fight. dad, you need to do something about this. next one was my mother who is in her '80s, she was one of those women who is fighting for reproductive freedom and equal rights. her anger right now, to think as you mentioned, that she has enjoyed a right that she fought for that was just ripped away that my daughter, our daughter cannot enjoy. it's completely antithetical to the we are as a country, we were supposed on allies going ford and not backwards. that's what we need to do frankly in this upcoming election, go forward. >> i had a few comments because my mother has been an advocate for reproductive rights her entire life. she died in 2020, and in some ways i'm glad she didn't see dobbs. she would've an absolutely

appalled. we went on marches with her with our kids. we assume this was a right that we would be able to maintain, and it's horrifying that it isn't. >> let me ask something because you came from texas. as i've traveled a expect the second jump as we heard the stories i was in idaho where to are provided who were leaving idaho because they don't believe that they can exercise, as you said, the full rights and the privileges they have gained as a result of -- do you think there are other providers, doctors like you, were leaving states' rights are restricted? and if so, what does that do for the patients who can't leave the state for the rights are restricted? >> yes, there are absolutely other physicians leaving. i know some have chosen to stay sort of do what they can but is not just abortion providers that are leaving. it's other physicians as well.

i've heard of an oncologist who's leaving texas. before dobbs, about three years ago i had a patient who had a broken arm and he refused to set or do anything because she was pregnant. i had to do abortion was she still had a bone sticking out of her arm. that was before it became illegal. i had a patient -- also before. i had a patient die of metastatic breast cancer. a radiation was only pelleted and a completely took away from her when she became pregnant accidentally. so that was already that bad. so now imagine you are an oncologist and trying to treat your cancer patients who was actually gets pregnant even if they say no but i do want this pregnancy, i want you to treat my cancer. i'm the patient. it doesn't matter. the state made the decision for you, not the doctor. as a professional, like, here's some did think about. i still am a texas licensed. what do i do with that? i have virginia license to

practice medicine but have texas license. if i do something you to be in texas think they have a right to come after me because i hold that? and this this is a profess, right? took a professional job that is now a professional job is illegal. if you do professional job you spent your string on putting you in jail for life, treatment. >> so the three of you who are healthcare providers who have helped cure people, keep them healthy, what's the message would like the second gentleman or me surfing the vice president, the president take back from this visit? >> i would just like to scissors light of discussion about again women who need abortion or abortion fighters and it's all extract. know when it comes office thought he would ever be there. but when you're in a position, maybe the scariest most unpredicted position of your life, do you want to find yourself with no options or do

you want to send your daughter,, your sister, your friend to someone like me or someone like doctor rubio who spent decades getting the skills that we need to provide compassionate care? this is not an abstract issue for people. i know it feels like it but trust me one day it will be for you or someone you love regardless of your political affiliation. >> abortion is healthcare. and what i didn't say is that in college i had friends who had to have back alley abortions. it was horrific, horrific experiences for them, which is why i call my story naked 74. i was really grateful that i had access to safe abortion and it made all the difference in my life in terms of personally and professionally. i have the children that i have

planned. it's wonderful. and their grandchildren, and to my granddaughters. >> any final thoughts, second gentleman? let me offer you final thoughts as we get ready to close. >> again, the vast majority of our country, regardless of political beliefs, religious beliefs, are on the site of all things we've been talking about and that is been proven at the ballot box the time of the gentleman has expired again. whenever this type of access is on the ballot, and it could be any bright a budget bright red state and overwhelmingly 70% whatever are voting for healthcare, voting for freedom, voting for autonomy. that's what makes this so outrageous. as a lawyer, fellow professional, the thought that i couldn't practice my chosen profession in one state but i could practice it in another to care for clients the way that i

love to care for them is just outrageous. i have talked to many doctors over the last two years and the thought, they told me stories of having rather than providing care, they're looking over their shoulder talking to the h.r., talking to insurance, talking to risk management. it's just outrageous. it's wrong. it's immoral and it's got to change. this will change when we elect kamala harris' as an ex-president of the united states. >> on that note, we will go ahead and close them what to say thank you to each and everyone of you. thank you for allowing us to use facility, to be able to gather. thank you to our director of our office of civil rights and to the second gentleman who could've been any other part of the country couch is to be us. >> and was on the schedule. the matter what else is going on one of you today to talk about this. it's at a port. >> thank you all very much for attending.

[inaudible conversations] >> your reaction to the names is are recalling her? >> that's all he's got? look, you heard the vice president yesterday making the case against donald trump very clearly, laid out the case directly and in a compelling fashion. but you also laid out the vision for the future, a vision where this freedom, were not having to talk about these issues of today in this post with dobbs hells gate the donald trump created. we need to guess, were going to prosecute the case against donald trump and his lies, he is gas lighting, during covid, dereliction of duty, inside an insurrection and all those other things, work and make that very clear. she's going to be able to make that case. we're also going to move on from this type of environment, this dobbs where freedoms are taken away, were autonomy is taken

away, where the telling you you can't read this book. they're telling you you cannot learn these facts. they're telling you you can't vote. all that is going to change and a must change. you see enthusiasm. you see the excitement. use of the money raised at you saw the party called the. >> use of the broad base of support that yet in just one or two days because she's talking about an america that we all have a place in. that's why kamala harris' my so proud of i'm also so proud of the present. i got choked up yesterday in wilmington when he called in all of us did what a great man. love joe biden. but kamala harris' has united the party purchase would unite the country. she's going to earn this domination picky see that happening and she's going to win this