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company. c-span, 45 years and counting. powered by cable. >> hi everybody. welcome to barnes & noble in aliso viejo. weto are joined by martin dugard including to be a runner, into africa, further than any man, with the bill o'reilly is the co-author of the best-selling series of history books most recently about the fatal witch trials. sears on world war ii, taking paris, taking berlin now continues with taking london. winston churchill and the fight to save civilization. please welcome martin dugard. [applause] >> hello. >> good afternoon. quick them until they make sure i speak into -- and hear me

okay? george can you hear me? let's are the little stuff taking london, here's what i lookts like. very important the most important thing ever. was called taking london winston churchill the battle for civilization. early reviewers found that a little misleading it really what it is about is a lot of winston churchill. it's really a focus on the battle of britain itself the period from may 1940 through september 1940 where you literally civilization hung in the balance. if they lost the battle of britain hitler in nazi germany would have been able to innovate england and then everything would have changed he would have fled to canada or been imprisoned and executed. the king would've been taken off his throne. everything e we think of england was changed and solidified.

so, as kevin was assaying saying politelymost of you probe from the killing series. i've been a writer ever since i quit my corporate job for i or ididn't quit, they fired me. [applause] [laughter] nobody wants to get fired. literate my boss told me i should find something else to do with my livelihood, i was probably the happiest guy in town. [laughter] butth anyway i've been doing ths a long time. the first 15 years of my writing my first books which were more sports at the start and then transition into history. the first 15fi years was a solo act of working on my own and i got connected with bill o'reilly but we work together did 15 bucks. we just finished the 15th, the 14th number one bestseller kind of boost mining a little bit. bill and t i broke at the band a

little bit ago we are both getting to a point i need to reestablish myself as a solo act and i think books are great way to do of all the books i britain and i've probably written between 25 and 38 since 1994 i think taking london is easily the best thing i've ever written. if you have read killing lincoln orev killing candy or any of ths bookst or even into africa about stanley livingston this is a summation of everything i've been doing on and really, really proud of it. forro those who do not know my story f and look around and seea lot of familiar faces. most of you probably know a son of a pilot. this guy sitting right here. ninety-two and still going strong. when you grow up on air force bases you develop a certain fascination with light.

some of the bases we lived on but we didn't live on base during the flight line you would wake up atar 2:00 a.m. in the morning or the running while since the maintenance crews did their work. so flight would become i would say it not my identity but very much the background noise in my life. i don't know where this came from. i like to pinpoint it as the movie 1969 but i developed a fondness for spitfires. i'm really not sure why. my dad is playing jet aircraft or drug twice the speed of sound enzymes stuck on british aircraft of world war ii. i let it go for a while. when i left the corporate world it was most of the time writing magazine stories about running and triathlon, i wrote about russ 30 years ago.

but at some point because i was freelancing the whole time and i was traveling on three months of the year with some point i realized i needed to stay home and to do that i began writing books. that led me into history. i had always loved history when i was in college and i loved history even as a kid. i got these children'swi book wh my 6-year-old name written in them books like captain cook and all of these people. as i began writing history i realized one thingng wrong about history is that it is written improperly. it's written in a very boring academic manner. from my very first book that was written of history which was about captain cook a relapse of the 6-year-old book that i had had. i went on this mission and i am on that mission to this day is to make histor' readable.

because i really, really do not like history books at granger. and i think most of them do. i think history is the equivalent of a thriller and it reads better than any other modern thriller i try to write my books in a way that when you read it you don't feel like you are reading about history about some distant people or a distant time. i want to put you in the action. it should feel like you are watching a movie or you are reading a great spy book like a bourne identity that is what i try to do witha this. and there is a lot of pushback the more i do this the better things go some of thet techniqs i use i write a lot of stuff in the present tense. i put my research against anybody.t but i want you, the reader to be there with me as i take you through that mystery ride. we do that with taking london. we open with churchill long before the war were he predicts do. germany's going to what they are going to become

that we tell the story through the eyes of four pilots a brand-new pilot, a veteran pilot an american pilot who joins the brits. and then at oxford student who becomes a good pilot. he has so many conflicting issues he does not know if he wants to be a pilot or a poet. that is the story of taking london. andd again, ever since i left te corporate world and decided i wanted to do history and focus completely on history doli not o fiction even though i would like to wednesday. i do not write about sports anymore. although i obviously follow them. but the thing i want to do is i literally want to change the way that we read history. the first person that challenged me afterward written a book by captain cookta which when i word with james patterson on a book. he came up with a really cogent things to think about.

write chapters that are shorted because people bow successful when they finish a chapter. it'sng kind of like psychologically uplifting to finish a chapter of the chapters 2000 words instead of 10,000 words you kinda feel like you got stuck you feel better when you finish the chapter. you have a strong opening. have an opening to put the reader in the moment. and it finish the chapter with a cliffhanger so the reader just now to close the book and go to sleep instead they say one more chapter. that is what we are going to do. and then of course the research. the research has to be so deep. do what jim patterson told me you can't fake anything do not even fake a bee sting. you should feel like the reader wants to feel that if there is a bee sting, what is it file? i'mgo researching the new book t the battle of midway will to be the fourth book in the series. literally spent an hour this morning researching the guy who discovered midway in 1859 and

what happened tod him. i felt his wife died, she drowned at sea his wife went down with the ship but id can't find this guy. instead of writing three or 400 words in that hour, i was just chasinghe this guy's life. i guarantee what i write the book it will be a sentence it has to be at that level of commitment to the detail. so anyway thank you for coming out. l i tell you i love taking london. this is publication we get came out tuesday june 11. tomorrow is father's day. fight top gun meets the nazis. that's my elevator pitch. that is it. you're equally good. it's one of those things that's

just the thing near and dear to your heart.it you are proud of it. it's not like a child listening very, very close. when your child graduates from high school or college and was out into the world. when a book iss released it's like tuesday it finally came out to turn this into the publisher a year ago. it finally came out and i spent this whole week wallowing in my sadness. i realize i t was out running te other day and i had to stop and you know when i'm sad about? i've got to say goodbye and knocked out into the world and people can say wonderful things about it. they can say horrible things about it. there is nothing i can do. for the rest of eternity the book is out there have to say goodbye to it, break up with it as it were andnd then move on ad finish the new book. i look out here and i see friends. i see family. i see my runners, thanks for coming out guys.

thanks everyone for coming. i really appreciate it. before we sign books and stuff let's open up the floor for just a few questions. >> we've got to make sure we get the mic it to you.in >> and doing all this research did you come across or do something that was fun or exciting in your research? was there anything you found shocking that you discovered? if you were to bring anybody back to talk to who would it be? would it be hitler, churchill or whoever? >> that's a good question. it was three i know there are many questions there. or going to startg, the churchil thing. people say if you could have dinner with three people which would it be? you have jesus comment churchill and i'm not sure who else. i would love to sit down

churchill. they have a cigar, his and brany and his t cheese. he would top down through everybody. but something very interesting to say. two interesting things happened. when i wrote this book i was with the cross-country team. we are at hawaii i was supposed to fly from honolulu to london to do some research might wife is going to fly home. also we change plans and she flew with me from honolulu to l.a. to london. we got there, we were jetlagged and so earlier that date we went toto see the ted lasso set outse of town which was super cool. i got to fly in a spitfire give it to cedar model. i was in the back you were a parachute.

i knew how to pull the canopy off, jump out of the plane and pull my parachute it's not finding the dreamliner it's a little bit different but supercool. let's see how long the line is it was superyo long as they pass the tower w bridge eight or nine hours made it very special. i got to earn it through a day miss? it's just the thing when you write a history book and liked like togo into a book knowing jn overall sketch of what it's going to be like. i knew about the battle of

britain because when i was eight years old i watch that movie at the base theater. and i still remember that movie to start this book i went back and we watched it it was made so soon after world war ii they are flying real spitfires which was amazing. but the thing that shocked me was how important this battle was. it's kind of lost y a little bi. we had the 80th anniversary of d-day which of course that change the course of western civilization.. then we have the 82nd anniversary of midway change the course of the war in the pacific the battle of britain is the battle in europe. the stakes were so high. they were enormous. if the british had lost america it would have been next. i thought that far-fetched at all. the battles in the pacific work

werefought over much broader distances than the distance between london and new york city. the stakes are extremely high. i wrote it in the gravity that came around to me i don't know gave the process a little bit more validation like i was doing something that is not just popular history. it i was important. people need to know that they cannot forget about it because it's as big as a d-day and as big as midway. >> yes, ma'am. you have to, it's the rules, it's the rules. [laughter] >> is an inordinate amount of time that goes into research. i was ordered out of the soul or researcher or do you have any assistance? >> it is just me. i'm kind of a history nerd.

i love it doing the deep dive. when it worked with bill the process was out research those books completely out write the book and send the book to bill and he would put in his words so also brought them together. with this we have a co-author like that they can direct you like a little bit more of this, little bit more of that, when entering the book by myself i completely focus on bigotry cover all of the bases. like what i do with the books this morning focusing on he was on the ship i think columbia. and it was the ship made of how many masts does it have having people onea the crew, what did they eat? what were the conditions like you go deeper and deeper and deeper. and it is fascinating. it makes for a lot of knowledge

no one wants to hear about me. [laughter] there sometimes at the dinner table out want to tell to my questions that nope nope don't hear about it. [laughter] gonna talk about cross country will not enter the ground to the research is fun, really is. if i start a book knowing just the vague outline of what the book is going to be about at some point it's very intimidating it is so big how my going to learntt about the batte of britain how my going to tell the story? and then you get to know it and you know it better and you get to know silly little facts but they are important they out a little detail to the book. then you feel like you own it. you're right with more confidence. which is why when a family comes out it's not just a book.

hopefully immersion in a time in history i knew nothing about i became passionate about. i love the research is great thanks for asking yes, sir. >> was her more recent what made you switch to the pacific theater went to go off of my own direction i was fascinated with the landings and we researched we were just at the end of the

day.nd they were taking down the flex this guy said to my wife and i are you americans? yes, sure. i'm pulled the flag but, at some point the battle for rome gets so overshadowed. like even when churchill went to tell parliament about rome nobody wanted to hear about rome. they wanted to hear about d-day. he not tell him until 2:00 p.m. or 3:00 p.m. in theo afternoonf it was switch from rome to paris so that is the gateway that's that howyou get into something. i got into the battle of britain casablanca got me into taking paris. taking berlin came next it's

right after we liberated paris and went straight onto berlin it did not happen that fast. it was an easy one. it felt like there is unfinished business with theio battle of britain. again the fascination with the battle from a young age. then it was so nice to shift gears. i h was her with jim patterson e time he told me i keep looking for the big stores you got to learn a lot. gotta find a way to take these details this mountain of knowledge. simple concise writing makes you want to turn the page that's what research comes in. here's the thing midway is almost done and i do not know what is next. i don't know if i want to do a taking book or a stand alone not taking book.

but igo do like world war ii. feels like a good place to park for a while. >> hateen marty. when you put together probably like taking a london obviously a lot of stories have been written in history has been recorded on the battle of britain and the blitz. did you go a different direction to make it something different? did you find things that had not shut up before? >> are some topics like abraham lincoln and christopher columbus in thee battle of britain falls in that category there been so many books about them the chances of finding some little bit of data that is never been published is tough.

the other option is to take all of the data and tell her relate riveting story but do it in a unique fashion. there are several books and, i cite them in the back of the book. several great battle of britain books. as i started the process it was so intimidating because how my going to tell this story in a ay better than theyt did? but it already been paid in advance i had a book to write. i had a deadline and you've got to find a way. i've got a mortgage, man. so you find a way. but with this book there are so pilots that wrote books about their experiences in the britain. b so instead of focusing on trying to out do them i found for pilots later on added a fifth. i research their lives as of

this british history book everyone is sitting in parliament and arguing to put you in the cockpit that's the whole idea you should feel your in the cockpit that was a big payoff for me. >> yes, sir. >> equips quick question. i am wondering why you have yet to approach pearl harbor. and may bere sort of a different direction have you ever thought about doing a taking stalingrad? >> you read my mind a couple of things. pearl harbor is in the midway book. pearl harbor is again something that is overdone i can't tilt midway without telling pearl harbor so that is in this book. then hang up i have is getting there. i need an excuse to fly places.

i'm not going to rush anything. organized versus writing versus finishing. and how do you organize all that information that you get the history books in the process you would think you will be fine-tuned. it is more like get up in the morning, i have some coffee. read over what i wrote the day before and if it is horrible try horrible that it is and affix it a little bit but you've got to keep moving forward you cannot stay stuck you can come back to the stuff later but you've got to move forward. once you start knowing the story i literally researched line by

line. if i am going to put you in parliament in september 1, 1939 when the war is about to begin. i describe parliament. that is a thing in and of itself the furniture and everything is green.ered in what year was it built and all that stuff. the people in parliament that day, who were they? you cannot just say these five people. you could do that but it is boring. if you are watching a movie you would want to know what they are about. are they cheating on their wives?re are they people who are not to be trusted or are they people who are extremely trustworthy? and thenit you got to tell the snapshots of a story in five words. you've got to put it out there. but line by line by line got a

whole book written andn you knw the topic then you go back and take all the stuff to make it pretty. use the fancy words and you start messing with the timing. just a little, little tricks and that is when it gets really fun. like a termite manuscript and for taking london is called first pass which is the first real look at the manuscript starts moving into an actual book. they don't like you to make changes at that point. if so this should be minimal. i made 205 changes are taking london. thatth had to call in the same super sorry about this but i will fight for these. it does make the book better, no problem. when you get the second pass just don't make any more changes. 210 changes the second pass. [laughter] and i literally went to flew to new york at me with my editor sam sorry about this but what you think?

the whole idea is you make the book as it can possibly be. it is a brick by brick process. then you get to the end and you get the signed books ons a beautiful day like this it feels magical like it was easy. [laughter] yes, young lady in the back? i think you could tell yourself before writing taking lendable to tell yourself? >> don't be afraid. sometimes you write a really, really big story like stalingrad. out that will that that's the only thing they know about that's the only thing they care about and they can't wait to write amazon review or a facebook message saying you got this and so then and the easy thing to do is just be perilous just to say, you know, maybe i'm just going to write fiction, you know fiction, you can get you can get away with a of sense, know what? i can do this. i'm talented, but it's a day by day process like this.

midway. i'm trying some new stuff. and so an often told story so i'm trying to tell it in a unique that purists might at first go >> purists might go i don't know about this but then i need to bring them in and there are days where i don't believe i'm going to pull it off. there's taking london, there was days where i said i know. i can't, i can't do this pilot justice. i can't talk about, you know, air marshal dataing. and then you got to push the dead fear, and again, then it happens and it feels easy, right -- so. yes, sir. we need microphone again. >> yeah. just curious in selecting your four pilots, are those based on real life characters and so how do you do the research? >> it is history. >> every bit is all true story? >> yeah. yeah..

that's -- see the trickck is to take a tre make it sowpgd sound like it was made up and take the people who did such amazing things amazing things that you and i could not comprehend doing and telling story in a way that people areth going that never happened. that guy never -- flew head-on into a mr. schmitt at 300 miles per hour that would never happen. those things if you can do that and a at the same time being to their events that took place if you can take that fantastical experience and make the reader go it is all made up. that's magic. i'm doing my job. >> my last question i'm going to -- q perhaps a suggestion. have you ever thought about doing aho children's as near as series? something that make it is more

profitable? only because -- whatt got you into history was when you were a little kid and i think that -- when you discuss how boring history can be, and how they just -- it's a grind i think that is true for many children. and so i thought maybe you would and that's a no. [laughter] >> here's the thing. i think -- you know, when i was a kid my dad will tell you i think he feared that i was going to become a kid that never left the kid and read books all of the time because i was one of those kids. you know i did little league all of that kind i of stuff but i ws a book kid and i don't have -- it really is a special skill to writey childrens books not sayg that to be pandering it is. you have to know how to tell very, very broad story, and a limited number of words. but i go back to this question on -- on history is not boring. but most history books are boring. the way history is taught in the school history should be taught as if it was --

you know, it was a big story. yeah. great. you know b like something that people should goso to history class and what's gawk happen today?s and they should leave like i never believed that that's what history is like. and so -- i'm trying to write my books, i love whenn people say oh, your book readea like a movie, and i will say there's elements with screen play with it with just kind of a opening of each chapter and stuff leak that. but i want people to feel like they're watching visual experience as they're reading about an actual physical experience. wait for the microphone young man. >> fall asleep -- >> so -- you spent two and a half years writing about pilots did it freak you out when the mays masters of the air came on and they stole my idea? >> yes. here's the thing.

you want to feel like you're -- like i know -- i don't write books to beat movies but this was the first book iev ever wrote where i said this is a movie. it is so visual. it is so -- everything that you know you have all of these emotion and feelings and you're in the air. and again, it's british pilots i get it. so masters of the air is about american. again growing up in air force bases, amazing -- to the united states air force, but when you see a book like that, show come out like that okay they're probably not going to do a mini series any time soon. but who knows but i watched it loved it and i really can't explain. so -- one more russ. >> did you ever reach out to the relative and actually go to their house with their grandkids wow and say this is a churchill how you know, yeah we get that opportunity? >> here's the thing it is

because -- world war ii people are aging out. there's one living battle britain pilot. still alive hemingway 104 years old and a homage to him. i put one of his descriptions about time spent in france in the early days of the war into the book just because he deserves it. but you know,bu if you go on the facebook pages you can -- you might see somebody say oh, my grandfather flew there. but they can't help me. you know, they can't give me if -- you know my travel budget is not -- [laughter] endless so if i'm going to go to london and talk to somebody they dongt have to have information that will add to the book even if it is just subtext. but on the other hand, if they got in touch with me and said you mentioned so and in the book that person i would definitely

correspond with them i think that's important so -- >> what's up? all right well everybody -- thanks so much for coming out. great showing, great afternoon. thanks. it is one last question or are we all done? i think we're done. so we're going to pull this table over and sign books yeah, dave. one more. yeah one more. >> i read somewhere that you were very interested in the spit fires and everything but did you -- have a i'm not sure how much air is ever available did you look at the b5109 or aircraft? >> if you go to the ref museums in london and it has it like ju87 and it's completely the refurbished and you see these things. i mean one of them i didn't see any 110s but at the same time

it is great because you're going through this museum and like my feet here. i feel like i have all the of the research i need and get a cup of coffee and you go woe, okayit wait we're here for a little bit longer so it is just amazing to see stuff like that, and a little bit of truth so again growing up in air force bases where off air force base in new nebraska they had a grear museum of planes and one of the thing my brother and friends would do on a saturday morning and breaks down and we would literally crawl under the gate we break into the air museum and then go into the planes. weut found out out to get into b-17 and b29 and supercool. and then they were inside one day and this guy found us and pulled us out of there and closed off an opening but i think that's really being inside an aircraft like that. you know, i wanted to bring that

into the book. i mean, i'm not a pilot. yeah. yeah. cool stuff. everybody thank you very much. like i said i'm going to sign and going pull a table up over here. love to sign a book to you. if you're not buying book today, buy one later but -- [laughter] it's a great book. it's a great father's day give the. gift.pr appreciate it very much. ing you're enjoying booktv sign up for the newsletter using qr on the code with author discussions, book festivals and more. booktv, every sunday on c-span2, or any time online at booktv.org. television for serious readers.

saturdays, american history tv features historic convention speeches watch notable remarks by presidential nominees and figures from past several decades this saturday, illinois senate candidate barack obama emerges on the national stage and giving keynote speech supporting john kerry for president at the 2004 democratic convention. >> this year this election we are called to reaffirm our commitments to hold them against a hard reality and see how we're measuring up to the legacy of our forebearers and promise of future generations. and fellow americans, democrats, republicans, independents i say to you tonight we have -- more work to do. and former massachusetts governor mitt romney speaks to 2008 republican convention delegates after a strong showing against senator john mccain for the nation. j we strengthen our people and our economy when we preserve and promote opportunity, opportunity

is what lets hope become reality and opportunity expands with choice in education when taxes are lowered. when every citizen as affordable health insurance. and with constitutional freedoms, our preserves -- watch history convention speeches, saturdays at 7 p.m. eastern on american history tv. on c-span2, and watch c-span live campaign 2024 coverage of the democratic national convention, august 19th through the 22nd, and you can watch the republican national convention any time on our website. ♪ ♪ the house will be in order. this year c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979 we've been your primary source for capitol hill. providing balanced unfiltered coverage of government. taking you to where the policies debated and decided all with the support o