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good evening. i'm executive director of the john f kennedy library foundation. and on behalf of my library and foundation, i'm delighted to welcome all of you who are watching online as well as those of you who are in person with us today. i would also like to acknowledge the generous support of our underwriters of the kennedy

forum's lead sponsors, bank of america and the lowell institute, and our media sponsor, the boston. and many thanks. the white house correspondents association. all of your partnership and cooperation to make tonight's program a reality we look forward to robust question and answer period tonight. if you're joining us online, you'll see full instructions on screen for submitting your questions via email or comments on our youtube page during the program. when the q&a starts, we will invite those of you who are joining us in person today, today to proceed to the microphones that are in the aisles to ask your questions. it is fitting that are hosting tonight's conversation here at the jfk library where we celebrate life and accomplishments of our nation's fifth president, john kennedy was the first president to conduct a live televised conferences to speak directly the american people over the course of his presidency, he held a total of 64 news

conferences on an average of every 16 days. the first less than a week after his inauguration was viewed by an estimated 65 million people. while president kennedy to grow the role of television as a news, he continued to be a voracious consumer of print journalism and a great respect for the role of the press in a democratic society. fast forward 60 years and the media landscape and the ways in which the president is covered by the media have changed dramatically. we are so grateful to have this timely opportunity to explore issues in covering the presidency with our distinguished guests this evening. i'm now delighted to introduce tonight's. i'm pleased to welcome ellen fitzpatrick presidential chair and professor of history at the university of new hampshire. back to the library. a professor and scholar of modern american political and intellectual history. she is the author and editor of eight books, including letters to jackie. condolences from grieving nation

and the highest glass women's quest for the american presidency. she has been interviewed as an expert on modern political history, numerous media outlets and has received the university of new hampshire's award for excellence in. i'm also glad to welcome doug mills, who has worked as a photographer in the washington bureau, the new york times since 2002. he previously served for 15 years as chief photographer for the associated press in washington and joined the ap after four years in the washington bureau of united press international, mr. mills won a pulitzer prize for photography in 1993 with the ap for team coverage, the clinton gore campaign and second pulitzer prize for photography with the ap for its team's investigative coverage. he has also won numerous in the white house news photographers association. i'm also very pleased to welcome darlene superville, a veteran associated press white house

reporter who has covered obama, donald trump and joe biden. her portfolio included coverage. first lady michelle obama. melania trump. joe biden and laura bush. a bit of laura bush. she is a of jill a biography of the first lady about jill biden before covering the white house, she was a supervisor on the ap's political desk in washington for the 2008 presidential election, a role she also held during the 2000, 2000, four and 2012 election cycles. she has covered congress and federal agencies and spent several years on an enterprising enterprise writing team. and finally, i'm delighted to welcome our moderator for this evening to the library. tamara tamara tamara, tamara keith has a white house correspondent for npr since 2014

and co-hosts the npr podcast, the top political news podcast in america. she has previously covered congress, served as a business reporter for npr. she has deep roots in public radio and got her start news by writing and voicing essays for npr's weekend edition sunday. as a teenager and in 2018, she was elected to serve the board of the white house correspondents association and currently serves as its president. please join me welcoming our distinguished guests. thank you. thank you all much. and thank you for the introduction. we feel very lucky to be here and to sort of share this story of what it's like to cover the white house through many presidency is. earlier today we got a chance to tour the library and of course, we lingered at least a bit at the permanent on president

kennedy his relationship with the press and his very very many press conferences conducted on television. his his very first one just a few days after inauguration in 1961. it was watched by 65 million people. and as rachel said, he held one of these on average once every 16 days. and i just to give you a sense of what they were like, this is a newsreel summing up of them from december 1962. at the presidential news conference, kennedy touches on a wide range of subjects from the vigil. we continue to keep cuba the status of the sky boat, a u.s. air to ground missile which britain intended to utilize as a major nuclear weapon. well, i certainly can't

necessarily account for this kind of missile because of missile operational inability. well, what role can britain play in our mutual atomic defenses? well, i think it would play a significant role as a nuclear. from the sky. but is its most sophisticated weapon imaginable to fire a missile from a plane moving at high speed to hit a target a thousand miles away requires the most advanced engineering in the region. and of course, the it has been really in a sense, a kind engineering. it's been beyond us. we a half a billion dollars into it already to complete the system. might cost another and dividing missiles that we would want which require two and a half billion dollars. then the lighter side as the president is queried on the spoofs of the kennedys in a long time since president and his family have been subject to such

such a heavy barrage of teasing, uncorking and satire and have been focused on back in the day of the white house and cartoons and everything. the photo albums with balloons and and the rest. and now a smashing record. can you tell us what you read and listen to these things and whether they produce enjoyment or enjoying and. no, they do. yes, i have read them and listened to them. actually, i listened to mr. martin record, but i thought it sounded more like teddy than it did me. but that. yes, you can really see there his interactions with the press, you know, the length of the questions felt quite long sitting here long compared to our current length of questions when we're off and shouting over

marine one, sort over each or each other. what are the other? shouting loudly. just a few words. to try to get the president's attention and you know, ellen, i'd love to get you to weigh in here on on what that back and forth was like. well as you saw it in the little clip there, president had just an ability to speak extemporaneously. he would study for these press as if was cramming as he did for the debate with richard nixon. spending a day and a half more making sure you know his advisers would fire every kind of question at him so he'd be prepared. it was a very smart guy, an extreme, articulate and a wonderful sense of humor. so it an opportunity, really, for to communicate to the

american people and to show off who. he was and he really enjoyed it. he enjoyed the press. so watching clip as a journalist, it a little jealousy. i will say president kennedy held 65 press conferences during his short in presidency. president biden is currently at 22 so far and at this he's not going to catch up, certainly not by the end of this year, maybe not by the end of next year. and meanwhile, i have to figure that president biden would envy the size of the audience that kennedy got 65 million people watching the first press conference. there's basically, nothing that the president can do these days that will attract that kind of audience because in part because the american landscape is so diffuse, so just to set the table little bit more. i want to ask president kennedy why this all matters in the clip

we're about to see. he's asked how he feels about his press coverage and he compares his experience with a free press to that of the soviet leader, nikita khrushchev. there's a terrific not having the embrace. quality of the press supplied to you daily to an administration when you have even though we never like it and even though we don't even though we wish they didn't write it even though we disapprove, there still is there isn't any doubt we couldn't do the job at all. a free society without a very, very active press. now, on the other hand, the has a responsibility not to distort for political purposes, not to just take some news in order to prove a political point. seems to me their obligation is to be as tough as they can on administration, do it in a way which is directed towards getting as close to the truth as they can get, and not merely because of some political motivation. and i would say doug and

darlene, the presidents many of the presidents we have collectively covered would would share that viewpoint or would express it similarly, but not all the presidents we've covered. true, true very true. i mean, there's always a love hate relationship between presidents and the press who cover them. it's it's time immemorial. it's just that's the foundation. right. so, ellen, you know, he had this friendly back and forth. he was very prepared for these events. he certainly saw power in in being out there and being television. but the same time that he was very out there. he also wasn't particularly about certain things, i think about his health. princeton. well. the thing to remember about this is that president kennedy occupied an absolutely moment in

the story that we're discussing in which he was the first televised president. the first president that we saw live and press conferences. and he also, though, was president a time when. so he benefited greatly from this exposure, heavy coverage by the press. but a beautiful wife, adorable young children. so of that worked extremely well. in addition to that, it was a very different in terms of journalism. and no, he wasn't transparent but nor was he asked these questions at his press conferences and. that is because there was at that time reporters sort of and there were, i guess, men involved. a gentleman agreement that you didn't ask president, the kinds of questions that are that our

presidents today are expected to be very about. you know when they have their checkup. we read in the new york times the results. you know, we know their blood pressure. we know the results of their etc. so none of that was when president kennedy was. and so some of the who knew him well knew more than they ever reported. and they wouldn't have it. it wasn't seen as appropriate yet to do so. we have come a long way. well, that's a question. have we you know, are we off now than i sometimes wonder. of course, you know, the more the public know, the better. but it was a very different time. and, you know, we've lived through reality. there's a bit of a desensitization and the shock value of almost anything has worn off these days. doug, i want to you covered president. he was the first president. you covered and he also is was

was a creature of of hollywood. absolutely. so you got on stage. you could tell. so what was that relationship like? what was it like to cover him and how did he you know, use the media and and or not? well, like you said, he was he was an actor. so he's very comfortable around the press, especially his tough. we would have still events where television wasn't invited and he would have us in for probably an hour, hour and a half, just to greet small groups throughout the country. well, there was a four age club or good, you know girl scout of anybody who was small group. he would come have his picture taken and he would tell stories in between to the photographers. so we loved listening to the stories and we were all on every word to every word and also photographing him. i mean, think about president

obama being the most photogenic. president reagan was right in that class. mean you couldn't take a bad picture of the guy was really hard and. i think he was very comfortable around the media and they did a great job of of of his message keeping them on message, especially the second term, even after was shot. so it was he was great to cover and i think the reporters all enjoyed being around him great stories again come back on the plane and talk about it. yeah, i want to let's just talk about this back on the plane thing. really. let's do because so this plane, it's air force. it's a nice big plane the president has an office up front and this is pulling back the curtain a little because most of these interaction are off the record, though a few times there have been on the record interactions with the president on air force one, but especially on longer trips. and some presidents did it more

than or do it more than others. but the president will come back to the press cabin. and i think both of you have had more experiences with this than i have. so, darlene, do you want to start and what is this like? well, oftentimes we'll be back. the press cabin sometimes will be in the middle of a meal sleeping, often, especially if you're coming back from a very long foreign trip and someone from the press office will come and give us a heads up sometimes, not always that the president wants to come back and talk and so, you know, you've got get rid of the meal. you've got a wife, the sleep out of your eyes and all that stuff. and then the president and sometimes they'll come back and they'll perhaps make an opening statement or a few remarks about, whatever's on their mind. i was on a number foreign trips with president obama, who used to really like to come back at the end, foreign trips to talk about what thought he

accomplished abroad, the people he met with, the leaders or his world counterparts, so on and so forth. and then we start asking him all sorts of questions about the trip and, other subjects, because once you have the in front of you, it's your one chance to kind of unload and ask him that's on your mind. president donald trump, who is another president that i covered, he would come on both foreign and domestic trips. he just loved being around us, interacting with us, even though many of you may know that he to us often as enemy of the people and fake news and all that stuff. he enjoyed the interaction. there were times where and i hope i'm not revealing anything. it almost seemed like he was coming back to focus group or. yeah and you know he's someone who is always seeking feedback from everyone. yes he come back and seek our feedback and it's like what else all the time.

that's not our role. yes, there was some of that and then there was also you could you he was in the hotel business for long time. and there was the kind of hospitality nature to him where he come back sometimes at the beginning of flights and want to know if we were okay. you have everything you need. i was on a flight one time when he came back with bowl of candy. there's always a bowl of candy and press cabin. and he wanted to make sure we all had chocolate. so the interactions very we haven't been as fortunate yet with biden he's only come back once in two two and a half years more than two years for an off the conversation. so we're still hoping to see him. yeah. and with trump, there was this surprise to me. it's sort of surprising these were you he'd like to give and get and these could be fairly common notational like conversations. it was it was it was weird. it was not it was not the kind

of conversation that you would have with the enemy of the people if you really believed we were the of the people. right. and of it, he would come back and say, this is all off the record, everybody relax, it's all off the record. and then he would start talking and talking and talking and then he would give something that's really juicy to the reporters and they'd say, wait a ceasar, can we get that the record. and he looked back at of the aides or sarah sanders and who was the press secretary and say what do you think? oh, okay, we'll give it to you the record. and then you go back off the record and start telling more stories or the whole thing. you pulled on the record, right? yes. what i was going to say, i dating myself again with reagan the first time i ever got on air force one, i was stunned when i got to my seat. one, you have your name plate it. welcome aboard. and your name. but also there were cigarets you know like right here all over the plane, like every seat and. then they nancy reagan, first lady, ended up taking them off

air force one and having jellybeans on him. then the jelly were around everywhere. and then i believe bush 41, they went from jelly beans to eminem's and what is now aboard air force one. when you get on board and everybody fights him and the president signatures on them. so it's a coveted thing. but bush would come back on the plane. bush one, bush 43 would both come back on the plane, and clinton. legendary right. the man just got back for an hour, literally he was a basketball arkansas basketball game on or anything dealing with arkansas all he would want to talk but any other trip he could stay there an hour. reporters were actually turning their backs on him and talking to other people, which is unusual. normally everybody's glued right the door and then he would make his way back to the stills and talk to us and you know, usually end up talking about sports. so. yeah, and obama inviting us up one time to the cabin president

trump on my birthday one time invited me up to the front of the cabin and said, oh, we'll just bring everybody come on, everybody, let's go up to the front of the cabin. so then he wanted to make sure darlene said, make sure everybody's okay. would you like some shrimp or do you something to drink or get something to drink? you know, it just it was amazing. so, yeah, we there's some surreal parts our job. yes. yeah. i've said surreal. yeah. that you again it's all off the record but you know it it has it it's talk. yeah the thing that happens all know so it's interesting that this what describing this kind of informal with president was typical of what before the age of television and woodrow wilson was the first president to have press conferences he actually had 64 in 1913 and then another 64 the year after that. and what these meant were that reporter ers would be brought in

in front of him and got to ask him questions. the rule was nothing be quoted. you know that, so they could report the substance of what he his answers to the question. they could not there could be no quote. and he was not super voluble. so someone would ask a question and he might respond by saying no, that would be the answer or i don't think so. so it was a totally different time. and harry truman roosevelt did the same thing. fdr bringing reporters into the oval office to sit and to to have these kinds of interactions. but it's a different thing when television and mass media enter into it beyond radio, which of course, fdr used doug want to talk about the acceleration of, the news cycle and recently we

were at dinner and you told the of covering ronald vacations. yes president vacations and i nearly fell over. so tell about what it was like to. cover the president's vacation. well, let's start with he spent it during his eight years, 290 days at, his ranch. so almost an entire year, if you then took in the part that we would stay at the ranch for three weeks and then go to los angeles for another week. this was all during usually august, beginning of, and then we'd stay all the way till the day after labor day and we didn't see him. but maybe when we went to l.a. and from the airport to the hotel he was at office in los angeles. that was it. so basically we woke, went to a briefing by larry speakes, who said told us what the president had for that. he's clearing brush. he went for a horseback ride

and. that's about it. and it came because there was no 24 hour news cycle. there was no you know feeding the beast, sort of, you know. so that was that was and so that was 20 minutes of our day, the briefing over. but we were there just in case something happened. and then shortly, i guess around the locker bombing locker bombing, cnn and came on and then all of a sudden now it's 24 hours and the news cycle started from there and it just continued to grow and grow and grow, but the reagan years were there was a lot of free time during that month of august and i mean literally days, weeks you wouldn't see him and that's just unheard of where, you know, darling i mean tamara and, i were saying that we couldn't that you could go that long without, even seeing the president, much less hearing from or knowing that he's healthy no matter who it is. so, yeah, it was a very different time and you know, we

would carry our dark rooms out there and set up in the hotel and wait for something to happen and just never take a picture. the whole time we were there as our tools of the trade have changed a little bit to i mean, you don't you don't have to go into a dark room alone carry your dark room you carried it we carried the dark room in two different halliburton cases as some of my colleagues were out here on what would be able to tell you. yes, we set up many a dark room in many hotel and ruined counting countertops and tubs at the chemicals and chemicals where you go, because that's what we did. and now know, doug, you take a picture and your camera sends it to the new york times. yes i've gone from carrying two cases now to having a sony camera that i can transmit the picture directly from my camera back to the new york times within seconds. whereas normally on the road in the darkroom, in the bathroom or a color picture, it would be 45

minutes. wow. and that's if everything went okay. and that was over a phone line. so it's changed dramatically. but for the good, i mean it's a lot more work for the photographers just like it is for the reporters. yeah. you're editing also and also putting headlines on attaching photos to stories. so yes, it's dramatically in that regard. darling, if the president sneezes the video be tweeted within minutes. yes. and the idea the the press not seeing a president for 20 days is unfathomable. can you explain the concept of the protective pool? yeah. so some of you may know that everywhere president goes in public, there is group of reporters that is literally with him at all times.

it's called the press pool and it's made of reporters who represent the different mediums. so are representatives from the wire, from ap, from reuters. there is a tv, there is someone from radio there are still photographers, doug, and there's also a newspaper reporter who will write what is called a pool report because not all of the reporters who want to cover the president can actually be in the room and someone is always designated. write a little report on what he did, what time he left, the white, what time he arrived over at department of interior, how long he spoke, who he shook hands with, took with that sort of thing. and part of our function there, at least to main functions, reasons why we exist. doug alluded this earlier. one of it is that we are there

at all times in case happens that god forbid moments when something might happen to the president or someone to him. the second reason is, not only should something happen him, but in case something happens around the world and he to address the american people, he needs to make a statement or to react quickly. all the media is there. we can set up within minutes. and he can literally come talk to us, make a statement and, take questions. yes, ideally ideally, and some some really notable instances of that are, for instance, on 911, president bush was at an elementary school reading a book and then there was a national crisis and there was a very real question about the president was whether he was safe. the pool stayed with him. now they did because they were

scared and a lot of other things they did reduce the size, the pool, but they still had five people with the as he went to an undisclosed location and other places and they were. you know it was important that the pool stay with the president to the nation that the president was okay and that the president was in charge. and the value of an in-depth pendant press pool and not just the white house out a statement saying, oh, yeah, everything's cool, is you know, that independent verification that that proof of life that proof that that it isn't coming from a government source, that it's coming from an independent and ideally multiple independent sources. and one thing about us, that 13 members of the pool who travel with the president, we for all the expenses our companies pay it is extremely so every time the president gets on board air force one and there are 13

members of the press, whether i'm we are all charged first class plus a dollar congress invoke last dollar just because and so you think about a trip where i you know i think about president obama's trip to africa probably ten days i think it was about $75,000 per person. wow. so they're not cheap and it's very expensive, but the food is good. yeah, it's better. one more thing. i was with president bush on 911 and one of the fascinating things about what happened, the 911 commission report was the reason that we landed in louisiana to address the nation on the ground was because he didn't have capabilities aboard, air force one to do that. and that was of the things that the 911 commission wanted to make sure there was internet provided somehow to that airplane. so if he needed to address the

nation aboard air force one, they could do it. and that capability is there even though that vehicle, that airplane, 35 years old, soon to be replaced, but still now that capability is there. so i'm now going to ask a question that i hate asked, and yet i'm going to ask it because i feel compelled, which is i want you to compare. you've covered many presidents. can you compare their relationship ups with the press? so i would just pick a few. you can start can walk this way. yeah. on this one or else it doesn't matter. so as i said earlier, the foundation between presidents and the reporters or the press corps that covers them is this love hate relationship and exists with all of them. but there are some differences. obama he.

he seemed to he started holding press conferences on a regular basis i think in that first year that he was president had a press conference every month for a couple of months they were all at night. he just to come into office and like that idea it kind of went away after after a few months he would give lots interviews to the new york times. he seemed to love the new york times. so npr, he did a series of npr interviews and the atlantic. uh, he did one interview with ap, at least one that i that i'm aware of. but toward the end of, his presidency and i'll back up a second throughout there were times when we would be in the oval office or whatever room in the white house was doing something, and he'd make little snide comments about the press and us being these little digs and they all they all do it. but towards the end of his presidency, he was less focused

on, bigger publications or bigger news organization like the new york times and started doing more interviews with more niche publications, you know, science magazines or a music magazine things. i remember he did a reality tv show with somebody called bear grylls. who was this they went to alaska, ran around and ate together. there's no frills when he's not with a president, it's much more disgusting disgusting. and i also remember that between two ferns thing that he did to talk about health care. so there was a kind of a slide with obama. we talked about trump a bit where he also had this love hate relationship with the media. but donald trump was also a creature, the media. it's how built his reputation from a hotel in new york city to a casino magnet in new jersey and turned of that into becoming

president of the united states. he went hard, particular reporters, but again, he just loved in the limelight and he loved the fact when he was in the white when he was in the oval office, he loved knowing that we were all in the briefing room. we were there. there were many days when his schedule would come out and. maybe he didn't have any public events. so, you know, we go about our day and then all of a sudden hear the voice of god over the loudspeaker system in the briefing room in town pool. please gather now an emphasis on now because he was doing something and all of a sudden would realize that i want the press to see this. yeah. i mean, he'd just have some random person in the oval and be like, hey, guys, get the in here. we had that experience yet with president biden.

he will take our questions in an informal kind of setting. i was surprised to see him continue the chapter talk phenomena that president trump instituted, which was when he was the white house and going to board the helicopter. he'd stop and take questions from the press. sometimes ten or 15 minutes and sometimes for up to an hour in the rain in, the heat of summer, we'd all be dripping with sweat. and he i think the former president trump took some amount joy in the fact that we had to be there. yes. yes. and he, you know, milked it for all he he could. so biden has continued that to some degree. he also takes some questions from us in the roosevelt room, the south court auditorium, where he likes to do things, but where are obama and trump pretty much are on par with the number of news conferences they've had, the interviews they've given.

biden is a little bit further behind. and i think we have a graphic on that from my day that comes from the presidency project at, uc santa barbara. and you can see this is, the average of press conferences per month, i believe and president biden is at 0.88 and other presidents al gore look at george bush, bush 41. yeah, yeah. look at nixon. he's also down in the basement, so to speak. yeah yes. and i think i was going to say bush 41 had a great relationship. think with a lot of the reporters and photographers. he newest all by name. he, i think, just being vice president for eight years he saw us talk to us quite often. i remember sitting in the

briefing room one day on a very slow day on a friday and the door opens up and there's the president standing there in a pair of shorts and a sweatshirt and a tennis racket in his hand. we were like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? and he said, mills, do you know how to throw? it's like, sure, sure, yeah. so we'll find somebody else. let's go play. so he wanted to start little horseshoe league, and he did. and so became this thing on friday afternoons. and then it went into saturday where we'd show up at the white house to play horseshoes with the president. some of kids and family members. then it became air force one pilots. it was a tournament. so, yeah, it was. he had a great relationship up like that. he went running at kennebunkport with a number of the reporters who had run with him, again, bush 43 did a lot of the same things up until social media took, where a friend of mine, a photographer, reuters, jason reid, went for a bike ride with him one day because he was a mountain biker. also, just like the president was. and somebody ended up writing about it and it was like, all right, that's it no more.

can't do that. shows favoritism, even though jason's not going to take any different pictures of him versus me or anybody else. and he just had a great relationship. bush 41 and 43, with photographers. and is president obama also. same thing i'll. talk a little out of school or was off the record just to be down in your travel with the president all the time you're in the same hotel as he is and i so i'm down on the treadmill and who walks in. oh yeah. that happened today. yeah. so president walks in jumps on the treadmill next you what do you do mornings great. he had a same routine all the time. even happened one time where i was on a treadmill and we were on the west coast and the president and then first lady came in and they were on the treadmill together. i was like, all right, i'm out. yeah that's like body performance anxiety. i laughed. yeah, one of the other things that i would say about president trump in terms of comparing the

presidents is that trump would often get very with us in the white house press corps because he either didn't understand or, i don't know what it was, but he thought that we should be writing positive about him, promoting the administration more than we did. and he didn't seem to understand that. we are independent and when we don't do that. that's not our to promote him or to make him look good. and that was even more fuel for love hate relationship that is the foundation of our relationship with presidents and i think he came from the of entertainment and yeah celebrity press you feed them some juicy gossip you get the story you want and that's not how we operate. you can't offer us a cheese plate and a good story. that's just not how the white house corps works. right. well, consider leader. he offered us a cheese plate.

we'd have to pay for it. yes, we would have to pay for it. and there some instances of them providing very nice bread. and then you get the bill later. you're like, oh boy, consider the example. ben bradlee, who when president kennedy was elected, he was very the bradlee's and the kennedys had met each other. they lived just doors away in georgetown when president kennedy was a senator. and the two couples were the relatively the same age, the the why of us were pregnant at the same time during 1960. there's a story that bradlee told about being with. they were the night that kennedy was elected president, jackie and the invited tony bradlee and ben to to dinner and the two women were then eight months pregnant and when.

president kennedy came into the he looked at the two women and said, okay, girls you can take the pillows out now. i the election. oh wow but it set up this situation where they were intimate i mean they they were close friends and bradlee was working for newsweek and that continued through the presidency. and kennedy did reward bradlee with some, you know, very big stories, but also attempted, to be fair and, you know, it was a complicated negotiation, but a much more informal one and a very small press corps on that point, i would say that is not a model that we all these though that said, president biden just did an interview on the daily show with kal penn, who used to be part of the biden

administration. kal penn was filling in on the daily show. there is definitely there are definitely instances of as the white house says, they they are trying to go where the american people are meet, the people where they are. they sometimes try to meet them where they are by going too friendly interviewers or friendly friendly venues. i to run through some of the technology changes that have happened in our industry and and what that has meant for the relationship between the press and the presidency and how administrations have used innovations to try to go around us. we have radio and and we have television and then live tv and cable tv and then the internet, which just accelerated the the news cycle. and then you get social media, which both accelerates the news cycle and completely and

fundamentally the relationship between the press and the president the way the white house communicates, its everybody thinks about trump and and twitter. but there plenty of examples the biden administration of them social media to try get past us. doug i'm thinking about photos or darlene yes yeah, i'll jump in on that just because i think a lot of the american people or people who are looking at a lot of the social media administrations, put don't know. and from a photographer standpoint, i don't know whether the photo was taken by a news photographer not so and instagram twitter started up were really big during the administration and there was quite a bit of pushback from still photographers like and other photographers of the white the wire photographers, just about them putting pictures from

meetings, bill signings, meetings in the oval office, just general moments that we would normally have seen or would like to see and white house photographers putting them out on, social media going around the media. so some of these were and using flickr, instagram to do that. and so then were pulled off the internet, then put in published in newspapers. and it would just say the white house if ap or one of the wires or reuters or anybody or getty anybody pulled that image off the internet to publish it, then it ended up in somebody's front door and they open it up and look at it. they oh, what's the news picture? when in fact it was a white house photo. so why does that matter? because filtered it's propaganda. i mean, i mean, that's a strong word. and i've been pushed back a number times from different administrations for using that word because i feel like it is because they it's unfiltered or

there's no filter are they. they're out what image they want you to see that's being you know is a perfect example here we went to africa with president president obama and he into now nelson mandela's jail cell and. this this photo op was talked about for weeks before it happened because was put on the schedule. yes. he's going to visit the cell there. there was so much stress and so much anxiety about this. photographers, you know, getting amped. ed is getting amped up. and we were told, okay, we're going to be going in. we're go, wait, wait, wait, wait. they wind up going down the hall president obama the picture on the left was what we saw that was what all the wire photographers saw myself and all the pool that was television saw the same thing. and then we were like, wow, that was know very impressive. you know, just he like in a really somber moment reflecting and then we get out 30 minutes later on twitter or flickr and

saw everything is the white photo of actually showing what happened 5 minutes before we got there yet that picture was put out it got a lot more you exposure than our pictures because it actually showed him with his daughter and during tour with his family and he just had so much more impact when in fact we could have been down there doing the same watching and photographing same thing but we were excluded so that's that was a huge bone of contention amongst the the white house still photographers and it and every time we get into this situation now the trump administration did not use it that much. this the biden administration does not use it that much. and i think even president obama obviously read the stories that out there because i became a lightning rod to it and did a lot of interviews. but i think he took notice. they fix the problem and they

they didn't use it as much, but it was it was a road that was going down way too often. and think the president recognized that and did a great by trying to steer away from it so it is something is you know critical to our business because when you look at a that shot by a news photographer you want to know it's actually a news photographer's picture not a white government photographer who had five or six, maybe ten people. look at that picture who worked, the administration, maybe even the president, maybe the first lady, because i know i know that that's happened in other administrations where that's the level of it goes to when the president when, the white house releases a photo of, something that happens inside the white house. so and that can be filtered eye doesn't look right or the hair doesn't look good or you know or something's altered. there's only was only one case when in the situation when one of the photos that was released by the white was actually doctored and, that was a red

line because then ap reuters getty, afi, they all had to put out corrections. the new york times saying, by the way the picture that you saw had been had been photoshopped, something was covered up. and that's a no no. so so darlene, sorry to ramble about but that's why he feels passionate about darlene. next step, your turn the soapbox. so is it that clear? but a white house has many ways of going around the mainstream and the press corps that cover them. what are the reasons that maybe they should think twice about that. a big reason especially if they're trying to go us by going to social media to twitter is that if they've got 80 million followers on twitter whatever the social media outlet jour is

there really only talking to those people whereas if they talk to the ap, talk to tim or talk to the new york, all of those organizations have a much broader readership than 80 million ap, for example, as red around the world. our stories are in every go to news organizations in every same with the new york times. npr's all the united states and so there is greater exposure for them talking to us than just talking to their followers social media. and so they miss out actually miss out. they think they're something good, but they're actually missing out. well, and ellen, i want to go back and we're about to open this up to questions so get ready to ask us some tough questions. but ellen, i to go back to president kennedy's words and in there is he was talking about

the value of though he didn't like it he saw a value in being pressed by the press in you know, having policies vetted by the press and the press in a very way represents american people. so do you think that that is still true? do you think presidents that do you do you think that that that there is a value in the you know, an independent press being there? i certainly think so. i think that one thing that's happened is that there's been just a tremendous change in the nature of journalism, the coverage of the news and the way it's conveyed all across 20th century. so what after the vietnam war?

actually, during the vietnam war, when the press and certainly during watergate when to reporters really played major role in bringing down the president of the united states, the there was a less deferential a more combative a more aggressive style that president kennedy never to deal with that. yeah he was happy to be pressed on you know this or that policy but he wasn't what his successors when the press played a very role in bringing the truth to the american when it was clear that the states government and sometimes the president himself was lying to the public and so this is very much altered the situation and i think today we have a there are

so many sources of news that are the sole ideal that once the press we're going to report the facts as they are and then the people will draw their conclusions from that now we have this blend reportage and opinion particularly in television. so people are watching saying let's say fox or or msnbc to hear the you know, they're driven ideology or their own political beliefs. and so these lines have become very, very blurred and it is very tempting, i think, for the president's to exploit that and use it to their own end. and we've, in the case of president trump, of course, these explicit and very hostile attacks, reporters verbal

attacks i was reading that ted sorensen was talking about kennedy and the press conferences and said that he never lost his temper a reporter and he never insulted anyone was extremely decorah and the way that he approached them and we've seen you know this is been extraordinarily just in the last many years so there a lot of issues here that i think are really hard on both sides. and so that those are macro changes that have occurred. and, you know, we're all being by them. well, in the early 1970s, gallup started pulling public on various things, including their view of the press and let's just say it's a catastrophic dive in

the public's trust and faith in the press and. it's gotten dramatically worse in the last few years. there's also, though, been a catastrophic dive in the public's view of the united states government. yes. all serious, basically all that are institute open to so on that happy, uplifting note, we would love to take your questions in the room and additionally, if you're watching online staff at the library here, have your questions and we'll be asking some of them at the microphones. and while you are preparing, go to the microphones. someone to do it, please. i will just gently urge to actually ask a question. and what i mean by actually a question is, please try to it to about 20 to 30 seconds and make sure there's a question at the

end. and if there is not, i'm going to remind you. okay. so let's start over here and introduce yourself. hi, my name is bob. i come to these quite often. from what i've seen in the press working with the president and see or like the spokesperson for the presidency. what i have noticed the years, it is becoming clear, divided and i don't believe i could very well be wrong on this. i don't believe that they are actually journalists. i think they are heads that are asking a lot of really, really questions. and i think you instead of being now i'm getting there instead of being objective and trance parent why it that we or

whomever in charge of allowing these in don't allow real journalists with hard core credentials to make sure we the people actually the truth so. this is an incredibly sticky question that we are dealing with right now in the press, incredibly sticky. but what i would say that the briefing room is in people's house and we don't want white house controlling who is able to ask questions. and, you know, the questions that you might agree with today might you might disagree with tomorrow. it's, you know, of a different partizan ideology.

so. so, you know, also the briefings have become performance art at times. and that is challenged, i think, for for our profession. you know, those of us who are in there doing serious work, asking serious questions sometimes can all get lumped in with people who are less serious but, you know, i think that the principles of a freedom of the and the first amendment mean that, you know, you don't get to pick the questions and you don't really get to pick the questioners. darling, you might have a better answer. you covered it pretty well. all right, over here. and let's yourself. hi, my name is daniel from somerville, mass. i'm interested a word that i hear thrown out a lot when it comes to the press's objectivity and i'm curious because even when you look at history and whatnot what we consider

objective requires context and always at some point have to make subjective decision about what you're going to include. so i'm interested in terms of objectivity and the capital t truth. how do you make those judgment calls in a world where trying to be objective as possible because policy that the president or any administration official is going to enact comes with a bunch of context where you choose to draw that line in is subjective. so how do you try to to walk that line in a way that you think you are servicing american people? darlene that's right. now it's my turn it is your turn. i think i would answer that question by. fairness yes. we all realize that we we're all individuals we have feelings, we have thoughts on, subjects ranging from a z. but the i think the important that we all try to do i know i try to do this at ap are history

and our reputation based on accuracy and fairness and just also trying really hard not to let your individual feelings about whatever it is that you're writing about kind of bleed its way into a story policy that you're writing about. you want to do your best to explain to people what the policy is how it will affect them if there is a cost associated with it. since we're all washington reporters, what is it going to cost? what has to be given up order to get this policy, this new benefit or whatever the case, be? so i think journalists to a degree today are maybe shifting away a little from cloaking ourselves in this cloth of objectivity, talking more about just being fair and making sure

that all sides a story are represented. and that we're giving facts factual and and honest and contextual as. you talked about and generally, i try not to put lies on the that too. and if something is verified only not true, then i try not to it on the air because the amount of time that i will have to spend, you know, sandwiching it in, facts it it just amplifies the lie and you this is sometimes the lie is the news and then you have to sandwich it and but these are challenging times. and i do think, as darlene says, there's been an evolution where. you know, there was a time where it was like, well, just going to, you know, this person believes in climate change and

this person doesn't believe in climate, we're just going to put them both in our story and let people decide and i think that we have moved more in a direction where if something is just not based, in fact, then we're less likely to give it equal weight over on the side. hi, erika. lala stoner. i think the burning question in my mind really i'm going to say what i are kind of cuss words till murdoch fox dominion. that's kind of. highlighted underscored whatever your preferred spotlight rating kind of it's it's made us all kind of go okay what's real and it's calling into question a lot of literally what you guys put out in the world all day every

day how is that like this case going on? and obviously all that six stuff and how it all layers in together how is that changing the playing field for you guys and how do you see us righting the ship so that we can go? yup. what i'm seeing is actually factual and reflects. that maybe not necessarily my perspective or her perspective, but a valid perspective of what's going on. and i see you nodding. i don't know if that means you want to go first. i'm the least qualified to answer the question. let me dive into it i think this is really wonderful and important question that you've asked and one of the things to think about is that when senator joseph mccarthy and the early

1950s was embarked on a campaign to root out communists, who he alleged in high places and the government, he was avidly by newspaper report orders, and in part because he made himself extremely accessible. he cultivated them, went to, you know, drank with them after they had formal meetings and forth. and the in a dilemma arose at that point for reporters in a more traditional time when print journalism was really driver in what the american people could learn about the news how do you you're covering senator how do you report put in the paper what he says much of were lies distortions, demagoguery without advancing it.

so you got to say what he said but when that story winds on page one and we're adhering a standard of objective journalism where the journalist is not supposed to say, yeah, he said all these things, but, you know, doubtful or or to raise questions it the news in covering the news from that standpoint of objectivity you may be furthering the dissing information and so today we various ways of you know we have various ways of doing that and even then the courageous cartoonist herb block. even though, you know the newspapers not we're not putting in this kind of editorializing the reporters weren't in cartoons. he was the first person to use this phrase, mccarthyism and

showed a big pile of pots of know tubs with mud out of it and an elephant dragged towards it. and the caption something like, you know, are you expect me to stand on that platform. he had written mccarthyism across. so i think this is very, very difficult to draw a distinction between journalism and tell evasion. you know, the news that we're seeing on tv, you know what darlene is doing and and your photographs and tomorrow as well. so it's it's very very difficult now when these have become so porous. i well and at the risk of saying something, i will regret that the dominion case and, the text

messages and everything that has been revealed there is deeply disturbing on a number of levels to anyone cares about journalism. i mean, the journalists were maligned as journalists how dare them want to fact check, dare them want to do journalism at this organization and the personalities who were doing these texts and all of these things that we've seen and the testimony of rupert murdoch, they were all afraid of their audience, something that their audience want to hear, and they were afraid of losing audience or losing their stock because they reported the truth now many of the people who are expressing this, of the people who are expressing this were on entertainment side, the so-called entertainment side. but it's very blurred. it's very hard as a viewer to know difference between i mean, i can't even there are some

shows where i was like, is that on the entertainment side. i don't know. it's very hard as a viewer to the difference and there was a period where i wanted to get embroidered a pillow, you know, cross stitch. i'm not here to make you feel, but i'm not here to make you feel like that's not my job as a journalist to make people feel good. i end up spending the money on the pillow, but. five figure one for you. never really. i don't think that i think that there is a danger in giving your audience what they want when the truth is something else. so there you go off the soapbox again. let's go over to this side. hey, we some questions from online so i'll be asking too at this point. great. doug talking about not seeing reagan for weeks wilson was in europe after world two for months did the press what he was doing daily. and the second question is what was the relationship with the

secret service as they covered public events? and didn't wilson have the flu. so the question about, again, i'm sorry, was how often do you cover he was doing every day, even if you didn't see him? no, i mean, the reporters did the reporters would would obviously write a very small, brief, the traveling press who were with the president, who probably back then was probably 75 people, maybe because it was a lot of television out there. all the crews out there, all the reporters, just in case something were to happen. and santa barbara was a nice place to be. so photo wise, we did not see him, but maybe four times. five times. and that was only getting. air force one and getting on marine one. when we landed in los angeles and when we got l.a., we didn't he did not do there really

public. so didn't see him at all all about the lens so yeah. so were people who were trying to do this cbs news when i was upi because the president would cut or the the press would come down and say, ari, the president cleared brush, had this for breakfast and then he went for a horseback ride with nancy and, you know, and so-and-so went with him. they found this place on a mountaintop, probably five miles away from where his ranch was and cbs rented to rent a to go on a regular television camera. that was the size of u-haul. it could only fit in the back of this. i'm not kidding. you was a full u-haul. the whole was in there. and there was this guy with this little, you know, focusing on it. and he could photograph president starting off on his walk and getting his horse in the morning and the the ride was

normally between eight and ten by 10:00, the heat waves were so bad you couldn't see him. but if it was a clear day and, it was nice, then he could see them and he would do see video. and all of a sudden cbs showed up one night with the video of him riding the horse while president reagan, according some of his aides, told and even recounted the story that he said, oh, gosh, you see that video, they got to me wait till tomorrow. i'm going to walk out on the front porch, wave and then grab my heart out. they were like, no, no, no sir, you can't do that. no, that's not a good idea. that was the actor part of him thinking. all right, i'll get him. i'll get him. so that's how. that's how little we saw of him and what the there was even a desire and a hunger to. do something. but you really didn't. so still photographers went up, took pictures of this guy in the back of their truck, taking of the president five miles away. and that was about the extent of it. all right. over here, i'm jim from southern

rhode island. the question it relates to tim, you actually just started talking about a little bit, telling people what want to hear versus what they need to hear. think is the essence of a free press, but of course, the pillar of democracy is an informed electorate and that needs to be good information. and you all over the years, news reporting itself has gone from, you know, walter cronkite very. and just the facts, man, to then evolve more to if it bleeds it leads and then people hunting for ratings and that distorts the news. now that's the news side but course you all now also in competition with news entertainment outlets and people can't quite distinguish between the two so i guess it's kind of like armageddon type of question here for democracy is there any way to outcompete the news entertainment when the american public yearns for it to be at all what they want to hear. and it basically raises lot of

money, whereas a lot of news outlets going out of business because they can't make money telling the truth. yeah, well, that's grim. yeah. yeah. thank you. yeah. just try to lift everybody here. yeah, i don't have a joke. tell them. but well stated. there's. oh, yes there's no question that that is that is a central a central problem in our democracy because and i think that the the in of really the news is partly about conveying what's going on in the presidency. but as the many of the presidents saw it to as a way to educate the public, inform them about what they were trying do and then allow public to to conclusions from that. that's also it's also a feedback served in the state senate for

20 years. and if you can't inform the electorate bring them along. you can't get support of the legislators and governor to pass legislation right and. you know, just to pile on the depression here covering washington, there are fewer and fewer reporters there used be so many assigned to regional outlets or to local who would have their person in washington would be the dogged reporter who would never miss their congressperson coming in or out of a fund raiser or whatever it was and could really expose some things. and there have been many members of congress taken down by their local or local reporter there's been a real nationalization of the press and just a massive decline in of local journalism that i, i think has also contributed to our challenge. but i would add thing, too, i mean, you just to us about informing the electorate. i think a flipside to that is that you have to have also an

electorate that wants to be informed, right? and so if people choosing to just watch television outlets that are only going to pump out stories that fit their point of view, the challenge how do you them to broaden that? well, and there are people believe that they are doing own research and that they believe that they getting information and they're really just getting pulled further and further down the rabbit hole, either facebook or youtube. and it's remarkable how fast that can happen. can happen. yeah. thank you. yeah, we did not lift up from there. let's go over here. all right, cool. so, i'm brian boston. to give you me a lighter question, the back of the doom and gloom hollywood loves to focus on like presidents interactions. reporters know, west wing, veep, all of those. can you guys watch those shows? do you think they're accurate or the inaccuracies just drive guys crazy? so one totally crazy thing about air force one is that you can watch movies on air force one and you can both watch air one,

the movie where gets thrown out of the plane or you can watch, i think it's iron man three where also the press gets sucked out the plane so you can be on the plane watching the press get sucked out of the plane because that's always what happens in. a movie. do you guys watch any the shows i have go ahead i don't go well i never watched west wing or veep there was a series was it lifetime a while a year or two ago that did something on first ladies, which i refuse watch because it wasn't fact based at all. and i cover first ladies. i've covered four of them and i just didn't want to watch that and have that influence what i know, oh, i eat this stuff up. i love it. watching the west, i always thought like everybody was at hyperspeed, but i the personalities within a white house are so important to the

president that people get along, they're cordial. they don't have an agenda of their own that all are working for one goal, which is supporting the president. that's the president's agenda. and when those start of, you know, fray then things fall apart and, you know, i think we've all seen that different administrations where relationships go bad, it doesn't happen as much on wing or any of the other veep or stuff that it does to a degree. but that's that's my take on. but that's that's it's it's hard to see it because we see it in personalities are not on television when people in administrations do not get or they have an agenda. the dc joke is that is a documentary. yeah, i would love to do a documentary part was over. hi, my name is zack orlova and.

i'm from arlington. and my question is going to end up by asking, when does press say what they don't know rather than what they can confirm? and the example that i would like to say is that is an economics theories. and there's keynesian and free market. but most of all there's narrative and that's where the narrative actually drives the market and that narrative is supported through various types of research that they choose and often as it will be exposed as we go forward showing that free market capitalism actually hasn't us out.

when does the press say this is really complicated and we don't know so i can think a moment and you know like part of this is that sometimes have the analyst hat on and sometimes we have the reporter hat on like when we do a tv hit and then all of a sudden the host asking us, so how is this going to turn out? what's going to in the midterms? and you're like, i know you want me to be here to give a prediction but i don't know the answer. and i know that leading into these last midterms, i went out and interviewed a bunch voters at a polling place, a couple of polling places in north carolina. and everybody was coming out and talking about abortion being important to their vote. it wasn't showing up in the polls and i remember very clearly saying, i don't know if what i saw when i was out talking to voters was just like

happened to be the people i saw or if the polls were missing something. and it was just really hard to know who picks up phone. well, who the answer. no, no, no, no. where do these polls come from? oh, well, right. that's a whole question. that's a big rabbit hole. we could go down. yes. over here. thank you, paul. in from braintree, a perhaps for all the worse for wear that there isn't a walter who can tell us that's the way it is. yeah that being said, do you believe the press as an entity overcome the segmented and compartmentalized news where people only watch what support we've basically talked about that where they have alternative facts? you there's just no unity in the news longer it's it's so fragmented it's no wonder that

people confused. mm hmm yeah. i'm not sure i understand what you mean. unity in the news, though. well, i mean, i get we're going back to the days of walter cronkite, but do you want to there was a standard that doesn't seem to exist any longer. well, newsrooms have standards. depends on the newsroom. depends on the newsroom. but i'm a little up on your phrase about, unity in the news, because there are different outlets that are geared toward different subject parts. well, maybe it maybe the problem is that things are classified as news that really aren't. and reporters cross either themselves as news reporters, but their commentator, but they pass as news reporters. i think that there is a challenge in our current environment where things are very blurry.

you know i was on meet the press recently and not to call meet the press because it's every show with a with a glass table top that. you sit around and you sit around the glass table top and there's one other reporter and then there's a democrat politician and a republican politician, or sometimes worse, it's a republican politician. and to and how are people at home to know who's who it. i think that the format of our current media environment often puts us in a position where muddy and where it's confusing the person who's going to the comedian at upcoming white house correspondents association dinner which you can see on c-span later. roy wood junior has bit where he says, you know, maybe maybe the maybe the people who are just like commentator and just have

like a lot of ideas should, you know, show up like just like bill belichick with like a hooded sweatshirt with the sleeves cut off and only the real journalists can wear suits and then people would be able to tell the difference. and i thought that was just a really, really observation about our industry. so thank you for that. hi. my name's and i to get back to this thing about informing the public. i know we've lost a lot of newspapers in america the last 20 years, and so people are focusing television. so i want to focus for a minute on public media because, we have the cnn's and the msnbc's and the fox entertainment stuff. so when judy woodruff was running the newshour on mondays, they had had amy walter with another woman would do this politics monday. and and i don't know who she was and really changed her hair a

lot last year and judy retired and there are many who follow public media look forward to that to tell us what's going on in the white house, what's going on in congress and. it's like it disappeared. what to politics monday? well, thank you for the question. and i will say that there is a hole in heart the size of politics monday and every monday i am reminded that politics isn't happening because. people reach out and say, wait, still no politics. monday. what i know is it's been put on pause as. the the the new who are terrific of news hour are getting their footing and figuring out what they show what show is for them because you know it it's not fair to them to impose every segment that judy and gwen had it actually politics monday was was originally so i don't know it'll come back maybe it won't

but keep watching keep the pbs newshour and listening to npr and the npr politics podcast. okay. i think we have time for one more question that hopefully is not my employment. so this is another online question. can you talk about the relationship, president kennedy and may craig during press conferences? oh, please. that was he. a wonderful rapport with this woman who was from maine. may craig i have funny anecdote about that. i probably won't tell. but anyway worked for gannett. she worked for gannett news and president kennedy really enjoyed the sparring not having her questions which were always very pointed and often quite critical

and called on her on as many as he could find to on her. he called on her because thought it really enlivened the the whole exchange of in the news conferences and she was she was very hard nosed. she was aggressive. she really liked jfk. i've read her oral history upstairs. the library has it i think you can get it online actually, she had a soft spot for but she didn't show it in those conferences. she was known always for wearing these elaborate hats. that's my story that when i was a little i did a drawing of of make i think i called it made craig in the jungle and then showed craig with these all kinds of of tropical fruits on her head as a hat and all these

animals around were supposed to be the other reporters think so. i guess i was alive this subject before. i knew i was going to have a career as a historian anyway wonderful wonderful person and interesting relationship between these two people. well and i will say that our current president often likes to spar with with peter doocy from fox news think he he i one would argue he almost seeks it out and much the same with former president trump and. jim acosta or kaitlan collins or kaitlan collins. yep. there was. oh, there's a thing they all have they all have one or two that they like to go after or find or recognize and know how they report. yeah, yeah. spices it up. well, we are going to leave it there now and want to thank our again, ellen fitzgerald. nope. ellen fitzpatrick so sorry. it's okay. ellen fitzpatrick of the

university of new hampshire. doug mills of the new york times. darlene superville of the associated press. i'm keith from npr. i also want to thank steve thoma, the executive director of the white house correspondents association, and who helped make this possible. thank you. and also thank you so much to the kennedy presidential library and the national archives team this has been awesome. and thank you all for coming. thank you all for coming