holidays? make c-span bookshelf podcast feed a part of your playlist. listen to all of the podcast that feature nonfiction books. it features multiple episodes with radically acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events, and culture from our signature program about books, afterwards, book notes plus and q&a. listen to the c-span podcast this holiday season. you can find it on all of our free mobile video app or web you get your podcast. and on our website cspan.org /podcast. >> a healthy democracy does not look like this, it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work and citizens are truly informed, republicans drive. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered,

unbiased, word for word . from the nation's capital to wherever you are free at get the opinion that matters the most, your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span powered by cable . david ono is no stranger to angelenos. he is the anchor of abc 7 eyewitness news at four and 6:00 a.m. he has produced two documentaries. we welcome adam kinzinger on the stage. he has served from the has representatives from 2011 to 2023 up representing illinois 16th congressional district rate during his tenure he served on the house select committee to investigate the january 6th attack on the capital as well as the energy and commerce and house foreign affairs committee. welcome to the stage. >> [ applause ]

>> great to see you. you can hear us, right? can you hear us? >> try it now. >> now we can. >> first of all, thank you for being here. it is an honor to sit here with you and i have always wanted to meet you and i am not blowing smoke. i think jim's setup was perfect when he talked about the community. i know many of you are familiar with little tokyo and what happened during world war ii when so many were whisked off to concentration camps and this holcomb unity was wiped out and empty. that was a classic example of how the constitution was not

defended and there were not enough people of courage who were willing to speak up and defend the tiny community that was locked up unjustly and they never got it right and they never were able to defend themselves in court and prove they were law-abiding citizens and never should have been locked up. that leads us to this. the gentleman sitting next to me is one of the few who has the courage, and has had the courage to speak up when things were wrong and when things were not truthful, to the point he was ostracized by his own party and now is on the outside looking in. maybe that is not necessarily a bad thing. here is our opportunity to talk to you thank you. right off the bat, i want to tell you weston, why did you write this book? >> somebody told me it will

feel like an inherently arrogant thing to do, write a book. i'm going to write something about me, like you guys care. what finally got me to do it, i know that my story and my experience, particularly growing up but my time in office at 2011, the advent of the tea party, really in january it is a microcosm of a bigger picture. we have questions a lot, what is happening, why is this happening? i think you can tell in my story a little bit of the answer of what is going on and why. the reaction has been great. i think it is because it helps to shed light to a very confusing time. >> it is confusing. i am sure that is why everyone is here because they would love to pick your brain. what is happening to our country and how did it get this way? what i love about your book,

even before the tea party, you make sense from it from the tea party on to donald trump. there is a definite connection between the two periods we only have a few minutes to really delve into this. i want to jump right into what i think is one of the more dramatic moments in your book. you're sitting there in your office. an angry mob is descending on the capital, you have your pistol out, this is a lieutenant colonel in the air force. he knows how to use a gun and he has done two tours in iraq thank you for your service. >> [ applause ] >> you are sitting there gun out on your desk knowing the mob is descending on the capital. you say you're not afraid but prepared. what is going through your mind and how did you get there and how did things get this bad? >> thank you for paying your taxes because you let me fly

your airplanes and that was a cool gig i predicted violence after the election and specifically january 1st. we were on a conference call with the conference, when you hear me talk about the conference i am referring to every republican member of congress. on that call, kevin mccarthy said you guys gave this a very compelling reason on why you have to vote to certify the election. kevin mccarthy came on and said let her speak for herself and not the whole conference. he said he was going to vote against certification and that surprised me. typically leadership takes the hard road the hard road with this was to certify. i was the first congressman to go after the leadership and i said kevin, there is going to be violence on the sixth. i looked at twitter, there are

threats against me, people are talking about coming on the sixth and talking about 1776, you convinced, you and donald trump have convinced a significant part of this country that the election was stroke stolen. patriotic appeared americans had their abused, there is going to be violence. his reaction to me was okay, next person. i was like, whatever. on that day, of the six, i told my staff to stay home. i used to say i told my wife to stay home and i learned. i asked her to stay home. i may have been born at night but not last night. i asked her to stay at home. i was the only one in the office because i knew something was going to happen. i had seen around the capital, the capital was closed. i go to

the floor of the house, i get the sense that something is happening before anybody did. i left the floor during the proceedings i went back to my office and by the time i got back there all was breaking loose . we had the initial lock down call because of the pipe bombs that were found. i went back to my office and open my window. the window of my office, which is behind my desk overlooks the west front of the capitol . that is where you saw all of the fight. i just heard explosions. it was dc metro police who had just shown up and they are using nonlethal munitions. had dc metro not showing up when they did, they showed up with like 600 officers, the capitol would have been destroyed, they are the unsung heroes. i called my wife and we were talking and she said go to

cspan.org there are all these views of the capitol and i went to cspan.org and i saw statutory hall , it was the original floor of the house just off of the big floor the house and i saw the first riders come in and insurrectionist come in with the goofy clothes. fair warning, i am a christian and i take my faith seriously, i am not one of these feels like and sensing evil, i did that day. i cannot explain it. when i talked to my wife and i saw this happening there was a darkness that i felt that i cannot describe. that is when i pulled my gun out and put it on the desk. i knew at one point once they pierced the perimeter there were threats that they would kill me. all they had to do was walk to my office. i barricaded myself in with my gun. there was about a 30 minute. where i thought i might have to use it. that is a crappy

feeling especially as a military officer and someone who went into politics to try to stop violence from happening. >> tell me about the others. there are all these rumors that so was so did this and did that. was their fear because of what we saw later on in the days to come, people suddenly get amnesia to how awful the situation really was. this is the constitution coming to a halt and insurrection trying to end our country as we know it. >> there was not a single person in there who was not scared to death. it is funny when you think about those same people are out there calling you and everything else. 138 voted against certify the election. that was the beginning of maybe we will not learn our lesson from this moment. what happened, for about two

weeks, you are in these conference meetings and everyone is quiet and we are swapping stories. i was here when this happened and i saw this happen. if you are in a fight and you see it everyone gathers around and talks about it. nobody knew where this was going to go no one knew what was going to come from this until your native son, kevin mccarthy, thanks california, he showed up at mar-a-lago. the second he showed up at mar-a- lago and that picture of him and donald trump came out, not that people were enthusiastically backing donald trump again, but it was a beat puppy look where we have to support him again and then the enthusiasm rose. kevin mccarthy himself. i'm not going to say that donald trump would not be where he was without him but i think there is a good chance he would not have been.

trump was in a political graveyard until mccarthy showed up, took the paddle from the political ambulance and brought him back to life. >> i do want to talk about kevin mccarthy in a little while. he has been in the news lately and you probably know what i'm talking about. i also want to get to your religious background because it's important to your story. it is important to understand who these people are who invaded the capitol . you wrote they want to make themselves into action figures. they were ignorant of current events, american history and the constitution and yet full of false self righteousness. i think it is important to understand who these people are and why they did what they did in order for us to figure out what is wrong with america and get a deeper understanding of how to fix this. >> some of it is visions of grandeur the idea that i will be the savior of america. some of it is abuse of people's

patriotism. the bottom line comes to that they are convinced that there is a war of good and evil, they are on the good side -- by the way, everyone always thinks they are the good guy, that is something to keep in mind in any conflict. it is part of the queue and on. there are people who truly believe, there are a significant number who truly believe that the government is run by satan worshiping child blood drinkers. a significant number of them were there on january 6. there were also christian nationals that were there. if you saw that, you would not have seen the symbolism like i did the people blowing horns, there was a jericho march around the capitol the day before , people were convinced by failures of the pulpit of churches. they are convinced that this is

the fight between good and evil. a combination of people who had their patriotism and abuse, people who are the civil war. folks also think that the civil war is hanging out with your friends by the campfire shooting people you don't like and they have this idea of a civil war. some are people who have been abused from their faith perspective to believe this is a good between a battle between good and evil. it comes from this idea that they feel left behind and they feel ignored and quite honestly that happens anytime you get a unstable society with a majority, particularly a racial group and the majority becomes the minority, although white isn't becoming a minority, it's just not over 51%. that creates a real concern. i think is it is all of the above. >> you mentioned christian nationalism.

you were raised a religious man. you make it very clear in this book that you see a marked difference between christian nationalism and your kind of christianity. what christian nationalism has become and how it has fed into the republican party is part of the problem. >> christianity, as i have gotten older and understand it better, just bear with me as i talk about this, if you look at the example of jesus in the bible, he said give caesar what's caesar's and god what's god's. what you see in that is directly what you are seeing in the january 6th stuff with christian nationalism. this idea that christianity is about overthrowing the government, or frankly no different than the

taliban in all honesty. it is about a religion running the government. part of that is an abuse from the pastors who do that at the pulpit. part of that is a complete misunderstanding of what christianity is. i was raised independent fundamental baptist. if you are in a religion that has two adjectives before it, it is probably a cold, or close to it. i was raised a fundamental baptist and a now consider myself protestant nondenominational. part of that is control on how you act, control in who you hang out with and this idea that somehow government represents a broader battle of good and evil. there is a massive difference between the faith i practice and understand now. the jesus that i follow believe that immigrants should be treated as human beings and you

have to respect differences because he loves people. christian nationalism hates anybody who does not believe what they do. you and i were talking backstage , i consider it the same as the crusades. the crusades were all about killing muslims, it had nothing to do with faith. faith became a flag, a tattoo to identify who you are. look at the number of people who claim to be christians fighting for donald trump and they have never been to church in the a day in their life. church becomes a synonym for white america. >> the racial undertones are obvious. >> yes. i would not say that it is directly that somebody doesn't like black people or hispanic people, it is a cultural thing. you will find black and hispanic, they exist in growing

numbers, but it is a cultural idea which is some of it has a racial undertone, some of it is america is not what it used to be. america is never what it used to be because it is a growing and evolving country. >> if you ask african americans, the old america, the good old days was no such thing. >> that's right. >> let's get into why they do not know the truth, they are uninformed. yes i work for abc but i will say it, fox news and a lot of the pundits have been feeding misinformation knowingly and what we are finding out in various court cases, knowingly feeding this information and that is the only source of information for these people as well as extreme places on the internet. how do you reach people with the truth?

the truth no longer resonates with certain groups of people. >> we are both media guys. i am part of evil cnn. i love cnn. what happens is, people went from i'm going to watch the news and sometimes see things that challenge me and my way of thinking, or see a different side of stuff. when you present the news you present both sides or just fax. what happened is, starting in the 90s with am radio and rush limbaugh, people started to realize, media company started to realize and personality started to realize that fear and anger is a huge addiction. there is this dopamine hit that comes with fear and dopamine hit comes with anger. we have all been in situations where we have been watching cnn, fox,

msnbc and we are hooked on this thing that is making us angry. that is the dopamine. what rush limbaugh learned is the angrier he made you the more you listen to him and the more he made on commercials and the internet came along and realized they created stories that fit what you wanted to see and made you mad and you would click on them many times and politicians is a scary thing. fox news that did that, newsmax used to be a pretty conservative website, now it is a crazy tv station. politicians, this is when it got out of control, we learned the best way to raise money is here and anger. if i convince you that nancy pelosi is going to kill your family unless you elect me. and i say that facetiously, but that's sort of what is happening . you will part with anything,

including your fixed social security income if you think i am the thing standing between your certain death or america that does not include you and the other. politicians have learned to raise a ton of money and fame on fear and anger. >> this community understands that because it was the governor of california who used fear to promote the fact that japanese-americans needed to be incarcerated. it is a bit of history that repeats itself if you know your history, sometimes you can navigate through it if you are ignorant to our history, most people are, that's why we see it over and over again. >> what is the republican party today? this is your party. i am sure you are proud on your first day to become a u.s. representative. i am sure that you had giant

dreams of what you could accomplish in that position only to find the party to be what it is today, only to find yourself ostracized for telling the truth. what is this party? >> i am saying this and not in a bragging way, i could have been, i came in as the youngest member of congress or next to the youngest member, i was the second post 9/11 veteran. i was all over tv as a freshman. i was proud of it. i am a center-right person. i am much more moderate today than i was, that is just a function of age and growing up and maturing. i think this country needs a solid conservative movement and a solid progressive movement. that tug and pull ends up moving the country a long at the rate it should, not too fast and not too slow. the republican party exists as

an institution, but there is no conservative movement anymore. the republican party does not believe in anything. >> for less spending only if biden is president. are they for not leaving afghanistan? they are when biden is president but they are all about donald trump creating a situation anyway. josh holly, who is a clown by the way, i want to be clear. running josh. josh holly just tweeted that biden has to answer questions because there is a rumor that ukraine blew up the pipelines. i don't know if they did, if they did, good. but josh holly was also attacking biden for not being harsh enough against germany before nord stream 2 was canceled.

there is no principal. the principle is we surround donald trump. donald trump is our man. whatever he wants we will be for it at that moment and also let's own the liberal. it is a party that relies on a cultural fight and not policy. i have not gotten rid of the title republican because once you do that, as a republican criticizing the republican party i have much more authority. once i said that people do not listen to me. there has to be normal republicans fighting for the future of the party. i did not vote republican last election and i do not intend to vote it this election. there is one issue on the ballot and that is democracy and that is the only issue in 2024. >> there is a lot to get through on that. i want to do an observation.

you may remember this, the republican national convention when romney and were the nominees. there was a ticker around the stadium. that ticker was the national debt going higher and higher and you could watch it. fast forward to when donald trump is passing his tax cut, which astronomically and historically raised the national debt and the republican party is like that's no big deal. now we have come full circle now that biden is president it has become an issue. it is constant flipping. >> we all have to recognize that debt is out of control and all of us have to jump off the bridge and do things we do not want. it is pretty bad. the republicans do not have a right to own the issue. when i was in we skyrocketed the debt even more than what has been done with any other administration.

when it comes to evolving as a politician, would you run as a democrat? >> i would be open to it. i am not stuck on the title. if the democrats would welcome someone like me, a moderate, yes, i have nothing against the democratic party at all. i would. i have no desire to be in the house of representatives ever again. there has not been five seconds that i have missed it except i wish i could be there to fight for ukraine. that is our fight right now. i would run as a single republican. >> this is not my original question but i thought it was fascinating since you live in texas. you do talk about ted cruz quite a bit in your book.

he is not your favorite guy >> announcer: not much. >> he might be coming up for years previous >> that would be a fun race to run against ted cruz. he is such a loser. the thing is, i respect, i have more respect for people who believe what they are saying because at least they believe it. being a moderate is what got him attention he would be a moderate. he does not care about you or politics. >> if you could indulge me one more guilty pleasure, the elbowing story that hit yesterday. what i thought was interesting knowing i was going to do this interview, your name popped up because you talk about being shoved by mccarthy a couple of times in the past. tell me about that. >> i am not going to go there, it could get me in trouble.

>> mccarthy and i used to be friends back when he was trying to be a normal republican and he went off the rails with trump. probably right when the january 6 committee started, i am standing on the back rail in the house leaning over the railing all of a sudden i am hit. i was like what? i turn around and mccarthy is 10 feet away walking away and security is following him. my first reaction was referred back to when we were friends and then i was like, we hate each other now. he just shoulder checked me on purpose. just to be a tough guy. i was like, whatever. a week or two or three weeks later he did it again we were walking past each other and he leans over and he hits me. i am like, what a child.

what it is, when you compromise yourself and your values, he knows donald trump is not a good the guy, he has told me that in the past. he is angry at himself so he is projecting onto the people who have opposed him. when i was on the january 6 committee everything i said every day reminded him how he did not have the strength and courage to say the same things. when this happens three or four days ago, he elbows burchett hard in the kidneys and he tries to play it off it must've been an accidental hit. the media is like, kinzinger and his book that came out . he is like, i don't know anything about that. >> i just made it up, ironically. >> the inner workings of congress. you mention that january 6

select committee that were really get into the nitty- gritty of you, your identity i hate to use the word downfall because you are a hero to us because you did this. you may not be in congress anymore, but it does not mean you are not part of our future. what was it like to be on the committee? you also voted to impeach trump and you were vilified for that. what was going through your mind as you debated whether or not to be a part of this knowing this would be your demise? >> there is a moment in politics , i don't care who you are, if you go into politics there are compromises you have to make. there is always something you vote for that you did not love, something you go along with that you don't love. that is the nature of the republic. there is a point and there should be a line that you are unwilling to cross.

there should be a moment where you are like i can go this far but no further. i have a new kid. when i ran for congress. i just got back from iraq and i wear on my wrist, a friend of mine who was killed in iraq. i remember coming back and saying, if i'm going to take votes as a congressman that is going to send people to war, and we need people willing to do that it is the ultimate sacrifice. if young people are going to die for this country, i have to as a member of congress be willing to put my job on the line. if i am going to ask someone to give their life i have to be willing to give my job. that stuck with me all my time in congress. i thought about that a lot. i thought about voting to

reform social security and i thought that might kill me, i did not know it would be democracy. it came to the point with the impeachment of january 6th. the biggest burden of everything is for democracy to survive, you do not have to agree on issues, you have to agree that you can vote and your vote counts and the person who gets the most votes wins. when that trust is destroyed, you cannot sell government. that is what you have to have. donald trump did his best to destroy that and he is still trying to destroy that and he has minions helping him. here is the point with my line, how am i going to look at my six month old at the time, or two-month-old, whatever he was then, how do i look him in the eye and tell him to do the right thing if i am unwilling to do the right thing? you hit a moment where all the chips are in. this job is not worth my soul and i'm going out with a bang

and i will go out telling the truth. i have zero, zero regret. never for a second have i regretted it and i would do it all again. >> [ applause ] >> i recall watching the hearings and seeing you speak and seeing liz cheney speak and knowing you guys are republicans and you added credibility to the committee, but what was it like when you get off the stage, did people talk to you? >> it was interesting. probably the most impactful is all of my friends who i thought were friends. they were not. you learn this because they disowned me. i got a letter a couple of days after i voted to impeach certified to my parents house. my wife and i had to go into hiding for a month after the impeachment vote. we did not hide that we went to a friends house and stayed

there. i get back and my dad's cousin sent a certified letter disowning me saying what a disappointment you are. you are a member of the devils army. just brain worms. my copilot in iraq a year ago since me a text saying he is ashamed to ever serve with me. that one hurt the most. i was like why? i told the truth and you don't want to hear it? on the floor the house, for the first part of the january 6th hearing for the first half, everybody on the floor would come up to me and talk to me and joke with me. a lot of people would come up and say thank you for doing that . the same people would go on tv and say this is a partisan committee. they would say thanks for doing it, i can't do it because of my district. i said listen, my district is

not happy with me either. by the way, you take an oath, not to the 700,000 people in your district. when it comes to a constitutional issue, i'm sorry to say, the 700,000 people you represent, their opinions are irrelevant. if everyone in my district that you demand that you vote against impeachment, it is irrelevant. i took a oath to the constitution and not to them. the constitution was at pratt and i would try to tell that to my colleagues and they would say, you won't get reelected. i said great, you can't look yourself in the mirror. it was a strange couple of years. >> i want to touch on the fact that your district now hates you , your family hates you -- >> my immediate family is cool.

>> yes. this is my question and you touched on it you said you're not running for reelection and that was disappointing. you explained it in the book. people's knee-jerk reaction is stay in the fight, we need you. why did you not? >> you do a couple of tours in vietnam you don't have to go back for a third. at some point you have done enough. the impact on my family was intense. the democrats in illinois drew me out of my district after saying that adam is the republican we need and they drew me out of my district. just as importantly i had been in congress 12 years and that's a long time. i am not sure i would have run again anyway even without january 6 stuff, most portly i could not win. i could not have made it through the primary. i had gone after the cheeto god

. i had violated this religion. literally to these people it is the same if you are at church and you say i don't believe in jesus anymore. that's what it's like it i knew i could not win. there is something heroic about saying you should have run anyway and giving it a fight like liz cheney did. i respect her for doing it, but you also give them the satisfaction of beating you and as of right now i have never lost an election. >> that's a great transition. i wanted to talk to about liz cheney. she was super important on that committee with you. what was she like? i can tell you have a great deal of respect to her. >> liz cheney was the linchpin in the success of that committee for two reasons. number one, her voice brought credibility.

i am kind of a moderate republican. if i was on there people would say he is a moderate. she made me look like nancy pelosi and comparison. she has a famous name. most importantly the work she did, she understands the law like no one i have ever met. she was working 19 hours a day, from the day we formed the committee until we took the final report simply on this work. we would go home for the weekend she was stay in virginia, she was in every deposition. she saw the big picture and put everything together when some of us cannot put this piece or this piece together. we had an amazing staff. it was like god himself formed the committee. each person on that committee had a unique thing that they brought to the table. hers was that the ability to bring it all together. i have been friends with shift prior to this.

i know he's a local guy. right when we get to the committee the first thing i did is i dubbed him in the committee adam senior and myself adam junior. he got to he said you cannot call me adam senior. and then from that point everyone called him adam senior. that was the one thing i wanted to do. everybody brought something unique. liz cheney was the bulldog that really caused this to succeed. there were moments when she rubbed each one of us the wrong way and she is very intense just like her dad. she would relent when we had a good point, she was not a bully. you could see her tenacity. we had 20 losses going at any given time about trying to get this person to testify or get

these phone records, she knew all of the lawsuits. i got so lost in all the lawsuits because i'm not a lawyer. >> the other one that is heroic is bennie thompson. benny is the only guy in congress that can be the chairman of the committee that was so famous. the whole nation was watching and he was okay giving the spotlight to other people. any other person in congress would want to take the spotlight for themselves in that position. he recognized that liz and i needed the spotlight to add credibility. without him, literally it is like god himself put that committee together had >> you put out tons of information it seems so obvious , but yet it is like turning a boat, i guess it is in the process is still taking a long time. how do you feel about the

outcome of your work? >> the only disappointment i would have is i was hoping it would wake up more republicans. i think it woke up some, there are a small minority republicans like chris christie now. those exist and i do not think we need to minimize them. for the country, here's the one thing, my kid in five or 10 years when he is learning this in school, maybe 13 years, first off he will be proud of his last name. that means a lot. a lot of my colleagues will have kids who are ashamed of their last name. secondly, he will hear the truth. it takes history 20, 30, 40 years to get it right. what we put out was a complete synopsis of what went down. he will learn the truth, he will not think of the fbi. i think and 10 years there will not be a person who ever

admitted they were a trump supporter. it is like finding a nixon supporter. lastly, it was extremely successful because the department of justice would not be doing what they are doing without us. donald trump will be in jail and i think it is 100% because of the committee. >> [ applause ] >> i want to get your optimism in a second. first, i want to bring it to the dark side and play the what if game. what if donald trump wins? >> ladies and gentlemen, do not scoff, it is very possible he could win. even in the last few weeks, we have gone from what i would say to someone donald trump could win they would laugh and say don't say that. now people understand it, that is good you have to recognize that. we cannot rest on our laurels. if he wins i think democracy is

that brett. i am not proverbial , i am not speaking metaphorically, i see we have a hard time of holding the guardrails of democracy together. donald trump went in in 2017 and the people he put around him were generally innocent people. now he knows that he will put people around him that will agree to work over the constitution. bill barr at the right time held the line against donald trump and he is going to put the opposite of bill barr in. he will interview 20 people find the one who says i don't care about the constitution just what you want me to do. the power the president has over the power of department of justice is frightening. that is why i say to my democratic friends, be careful going after the supreme court. the supreme court has held

democratic norms in order and we have to keep that institution, even if you disagree with the policies coming out, as legitimized as possible because we may have to lean on the supreme court during a donald trump administration. but it is a frightening possibility. i would say make sure you vote. this is why i am concerned as much as i would love to have a third party i'm concerned about third parties in the selection. i will vote joe biden that they will take people like me and give someone else an excuse not to vote for joe biden. this is a serious moment. the good news is, if we get through this, i will say if, if we get through this i think 2028 will be marvelous. i think it will be an amazing presidential year and a new american century will bloom. it will be a new generation, new ideas and all new candidates and that will be good. >> that is a big if. the new york times came out a

couple weeks ago looking at all of the swing states and right now trump is winning almost all . >> i have been talking to people who are biden fence or were biden fans, it is very anecdotal, take that for what it is. people that i know are saying i may vote for trump or i may stay home. i don't know why. there is something going on underneath. it means we have to be on the offense. i think joe biden can do a good job of selling democracy on the line and that's what he needs to sell. >> democracy and its most fundamental state, the person with the most votes wins and we have not seen that. is the electoral college broken? does it work in democracy? >> the problem is you need a constitutional amendment, but it is time to get rid of it.

you do not live in a time where news travels by horse and buggy anymore. if something happens the whole country knows at the speed of light. the president is not the president of different states but of the whole country. it is time to basically have a general vote and the winner of the vote wins. we are probably a long way off from that. >> this is not your party, the democrats, but a big knock on president biden is his age, even though he is very close to the same age as donald trump, but that is his vulnerability. is there anybody else out there that you would like to see run against donald trump as opposed president biden? >> on the primary side i would like to see chris christie because he is a truth teller. on the democratic side, i do not know the candidates. i know your governor is interested and in the mix, i do

not understand why he went to china recently, that confused me a little bit. i know he will be in the mix. there is a lot of talent on the democratic side but you have to bring it forward. i think there is a lot of talent, not on the republican side, anybody who supported donald trump i think is disqualified. if you can clean the party and make it a party of ideas, you can bring a lot of talent in. i do think the democrats have a strong pinch. at least in congress, the one thing republicans did better than democrats as we term leadership positions. you cannot be chairman of the committee for six years. you actually competed to be the chairman. i think that would be beneficial to the democratic party. >> i love this quote in your book and it is near the conclusion, you said, laws are

words on paper, they mean nothing without public service dedicated to the rule of law and who are held accountable by a public who believes owes matter. owes matter more than party tribalism or scoring political points. we the people must demand more from our politicians and our smell ourselves, oh matter. >> dc is not going to fix this moment. ultimately they will do what they need to do to get reelected. that is something i'm cynical in and i should have always been cynical. people do not go to dc with a moral compass, they go there and they try to get reelected. the moral compass come from the demand of the people who put them in. if the people who put them in have a moral compass than they will. if we get, as the american people, as we get bought into

fights on the internet, let's not have serious discussions, they will not have serious discussions either. if we do not honor the oath they will not either. >> i think, to be honest 99% of republicans in the house right now are disqualified because they do not honor their oath. what matter is, no matter what the supreme court says, no matter anything, none of that actually works unless we have that contract that i was talking about earlier about the voting thing, but also understanding that laws work because we trust they work. we will obey a law because we decided as a society that we will obey a law. that is what the oath is you are committing to that structure of government. if all of a sudden our politicians decide i don't care what anybody says we will just act as a fascist, there is no law

you can put down to stop that. that is what we have to demand. >> this is california, it will vote democratic -- >> what? >> as a final question before we open it up, what can people in california do to help with a presidential election? >> first off, take the weight of the world that you carry, that we all carry with the bad stuff happening, take the weight and put it down. that does not meet disengage, i'm telling you that because when we carry that weight we get exhausted and give up. put it down, love your family, love people who think differently than you, it's okay, they will not bite. just put it down so you stay engaged and so you stay empathetic and you can be effective.

there are a ton of stuff that you could do on social media. the most important thing you can do california is vote. we do know how the election will go, that does not mean that you do not have an impact. you have that in your senators and congressmen and state reps and state senators, hold them accountable. >> ted, do you want to ask questions? >> thank you to those who sent in questions. we are a week away from thanksgiving, and occasion that is typically a time to bring families together, however, the last few years politics have been a big divider, even in your family you have been disowned. what will thanksgiving be like at your home? >> mine will be great. all those people who disowned me i don't give a ratsabout. i really don't . i have forgiven them just for myself

because you don't want to hold onto that. i have zero desire to make up with them. that is on them. i am not the a whole, they are. my immediate family is great. i would say this when it comes to thanksgiving, most people have this problem, there will be somebody at thanksgiving that says something that will take everyone off. it can actualg around each person, sending a text or email and being like, when -- but stay away from politics this year. once you can do that, and if you have an agreement to stay away from it, you can enjoy being around each other. it is a problem in this country that we are separating into groups of people that think the same. left and write. less is better. >> the gentleman says being ex-

navy myself, one of my biggest disappointments were the military and ex-military that participated in the sa insurrection. i would like to thank you for helping restore my faith in my fellow veterans. what are your thoughts about that? >> it is really disappointing to me, as well. the military is literally the last institution and a government that has bipartisan support. and that is essential. i knew during -- january 6 was going down, i knew that no matter how bad it got, at the end of the day, you had to break glass in the case of emergency which is the national guard and federal forces if you need them and it was nice to know they were going to come in and restore order if we needed that. what we saw on january 6th was a lot of veterans, some active- duty members. you can't control how people think, what you can control is when i joined and when the veteran out here joined as well, they ask you, are you a communist, are you a member of

terrorist group, have you ever been a member associated with a group that wants to overthrow the u.s. government. that needs to include proud boys now, needs to include days i don't understand what they are but those groups. that seek to overthrow the government. the other thing is like, when people come home from military service, being a guy and it being at war, it's feels like the height of what you are built to do. and i get it, you just, you are fighting for your country, you are fighting with your brothers and sisters and then you come home and it is like, you will never reach that high again, ever no matter what you do. and that is good. but it is, a lot of people come back feeling kind of hopeless. or feeling like they don't have a mission. and somebody comes along and says -- the same things with gangs. they put their arm around them and say, we give you a purpose.

by the way your government is under attack. you want to fight for al americans, here's what we've got to do. that is a huge problem. he would don't have a mission after the military. >> i feel the middle is where most of america is. and that is also where i feel national politics is and the general position on many ' issues. yet the loudest voices of the democratic party and republican party push agendas on the extremist on both sides. how can a centrist candidate or centrist position attraction? but that is a good question because i agree with this. i think most americans are moderate and the problem is, the two-party system, it is boiled down to an understanding of issues to two positions. let's take the issue of abortion. that is pro-life and pro- choice. that is totally wrong. there's like 50 positions on abortion, just so you guys know. ray-ban at this point were not at this point -- you can go an through and find 50 different

positions that people think. same with guns. sematech this. same with every issue. but we've been ingrained to believe there's only two sides. so that is it it advantage -- disadvantage to creating a new party. within the parties, i think structurally a big change would be something -- you do juggle primaries which i think is really good. your election system is good d that. things like ranked choice voting, which forces candidates to attract the middle more. the other thing is, vote in a primary. if one of the things, i have an organization, country first and we actually in north carolina, we were focusing on turning democrats out to vote in the republican primary in madison cawthorn's district because we said, you are going to have a republican representative, right? you can either just vote for the democrat and whatever or about in the republican primary for someone who is not madison cawthorn. returned at 5000 democrats and the last 3500 votes. those are ways you can make a

difference. i think, just being, you're running for office and you are moderate, be immoderate. and express to people what you believe. the real key on this is to the primaries. >> in your opinion, what percentage of the republican congress truly believe in trump as being good for our country? short of them being voted out and some are in protected gerrymandered districts, is there any hope that they will truly see what is good for the country? >> that is a great question. so i think, since the last election, there are actually people that ran because they believed donald trump was a real god and some of them got elected. outside of that, the people i served with, if you put them all on cia truth serum, there's not a single person i think truly believe the election was stolen. there's only a few that may be believed donald trump was actually good for the country.

the rest of them, like matt gaetz and stuff, that guy, they are all about fame. that's all he wants, he wants to be famous. i'm actually, i would almost ra rather there be people that truly believe this in congress t than the fact that there are people that don't go along with it because you see how adolf hitler comes into power. how does he come to power? most people knew he was crazy but they were going to go along with it because i didn't want to lose their jobs. it is depressingly high, the number of people who know he's pretty bad for the country. >> does the average american really need an ar 15 rifle for personal use? aside from the right to have one? >> no, i don't think they need them, no. >> as a democrat i consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal. i believe in a robust and healthy republican party where ideas can be shared and debated with democrats and vice versa. in order to reach a compromise

and pass legitimate lesson dates legislation. in the current political climate, i don't see republicans prepared to practice democracy in this manner. >> no, they are not. they are just not. and here's the interesting thing. i told you, there is a sick party and a healthy party right now. the thing i worry about, and i want to make this point, is democrats have every right to kind of mimic what republicans are doing. you know, to be authoritarian kind of like my way or the highway. i would ask that they don't. because right now, it is the only party that is actually holding up that flame of democracy. and so keep holding that flame. because if the democratic party succumbs to the anger that the republican party has come i don't know how you come back from that. i don't know if you do. so in terms of the compromise, yeah, i don't think in the next year or so there's going to be

any compromises like that. i will say, to joe biden's credit, because i voted for a lot of the stuff, he's actually been one of the most successful presidents in terms of passing things. he doesn't get credit for it but like i was the only republican to vote for the chips act, which is what is weird. i voted for. the republicans basically wrote the chips act and when biden decided to go with it they turned against it and it was like -- that what happened. i voted for the the structure bill. that kind of stuff. there's room to get stuff like that done but i think we have to get through another election cycle. ladies and gentlemen, listen. the jet has got to be dealt with and the question of fiscal conservative, we spent more this year on interest on the debt than on the military. which is a very frightening thing to think about. people tell me all the time, we spent too much on the literary. i disagree but i get the point. right now we spent $800 billion on interest, which is pointless expenditure pics but yet we are fighting over sending arms and

supporting ukraine. >> yes, exactly. it is not. the priorities are nuts. >> gentleman says my immigrated to the u.s. in the '80s and i was in awe of how government worked in america. i watched c-ayspan to learn abo commas. i watched debate on legislation from bus size and when a bill passed, both sides acknowledged efforts and it knowledged at the end of the day, they were working for the american people. i thought to myself, many countries in the world should ea learn from this. now i watched c-span and i am not so sure. how has all of this impacted our reputation globally? >> okay, i will answer that question and then i want to hit you with something else. it is sadly hurt it because and this is something i would need d 30 minutes to get into depth to talk about, but i will touch on it quickly, which is i think

america's mission in the world is to be an example of self- governance, to billions of people that don't have what we have but are desperate for it. the iron curtain came down because the third-generation had seen enough of america and decided they wanted that, right? we change lives, not just our own lives but labs around the world. so yes, it has taken a hit and it is very sad. but i said this kind of off the cuff on the first hearing of the january 6th day. democracies aren't defined by bad days. france has a riot every week, right? the yellow vest riot and the orange vest and purple hat riot, whatever. but they are healthy democracy, like we had an insurrection that was a really bad day and we are in a really bad moment. what will define us historically is how we come back from this. do we take inventory of this moment and at do we make that like the low point, or do we feel like it is too hard and give up and it gets worse. that is what is yet to be written. i will say every generation of america has actually led the

next generation better off than theirs. and i don't think we are the first generation to do the opposite. but that has yet to be written. so yeah, the reputation has been hit but i think we still can come out of this actually and have a better reputation if we get it right. >> in an interview you said the republican party is pretty messed up right now and i've been part of it. i'm not going to sit here and say i didn't contribute at all to the flight of the republican party. any radicular regrets you might share with us? >> i have regrets. voted against the first impeachment which i regret. you know, there's stuff like that. i can look back on it and say, i think it is important if you're going to talk about your prescription for the party, to admit your role in it and i think the problem we have now is, with all the people in power and donald trump, they are like, if i come out and admit what i did was wrong,

instead of people listening there's going to be, you, you, you. yeah, i get it. but i can look back and say there's a few things. but i will also say to my credit, sounds weird to say that, i was probably the most outspoken member of congress against donald trump for his entire four years and that leads to another thing where he was and says with me because he could win me over fully and couldn't figure out why. that there is, should we have regrets. >> two more questions. this one says, the person stresses, this is hypothetical. let's say you are invited to mar-a-lago. >> [ laughter ] >> and you had the chance to say a few words directly to donald trump. what would those words be? >> it's not something i haven't said to him anyway. but like, -- let me make this family-friendly.

i would call him a d bag. i would tell him that he is got to live with the fact that -- you know, if i couldn't appeal to him, which i couldn't, i would tell him he has to live with the fact that his name will be seen as a stain on history. and he has to understand that. people are not going to look back at donald trump with any affection. there's not going ton be statues built to him. is not going to be a trump library. there's not going to be a trump highway because is going to be seen as a national embarrassment. and he has a chance to fix that. because he could come out and admit everything he did and try to make amends. he won't. but his memory will be a complete joke for this country. >> in the book, he does use a clinical term -- >> i said he was nucking futs.

>> final question and i am combining a few together. asking for comments about the candidates running on the republican side. and lastly, somebody asked, joe manchin and that is the question mark. >> look, on the republican side, i think there's three people left, really. le and that is, there's trump, there's nikki haley and there is chris christie. each of them represent a certain part of the party. b is a trump is trump. haley represents kind of the establishment, the old establishment lane. but it's like the ones that went along with trump never really liked him but kind of went along with it to save the party. and chris christie is like my guy, the ones that are like, we have had enough. we are going to drop the grenade. so those three are the ones that are left.

and i actually want to tell yous folks, i think, i implied that i think donald trump goes to jail. i think there's a good ga possibility the spring, the most valuable player on the january 6th committee was mark meadows because he gave us text messages and quit cooperating. we only got a fraction of them but those text messages gave us the entire road map for the th rest of the investigation. he is now cooperated. so every time donald trump went to the bathroom, like mark meadows nosed. he knows everything he said or thought or anything. is not cooperating. when this is exposed, i do think there's a possibility that it is so bad and so terrible that trump collapses at that moment. it is possible. i predicted it before so let's be clear. but i do think the evidence against donald trump is going to be so stark that it would be the moment that nikki haley or maybe even chris christie, if people are ashamed enough can come back. but you know, that is the optimistic view. is not what i would put my

money on, but it is a possibility. in terms of joe manchin, i like the guy personally. he's got a very big ego. let's be honest. and any other time, if this was pushed against clinton again, ii would be like, yeah, let's let joe run because bush and clinton are not that far apart. this is an existential battle right now and all joe manchin is going to do is give disaffected republicans a place to go that is not biden. and that is not good for biden. he needs the republicans. and look, what if joe manchin wins? a couple of states. you know what happens, he doesn't -- it goes to the house of representatives to vote. if joe manchin wins two states and nobody gets to 270, the house of representatives votes for the president and by the way, it is not like the democrats have the majority so e biden wins. it votes by state.

whoever has the most in the state, that state votes that way. republicans controlled 26 delegations, democrats control 24. that was the whole play on january 6 by the way. to get away to trigger the constitution to get the house to vote for the president and trump would win 26-24. that is what joe manchin can do in this if he's successful. >> with that, -- >> [ laughter ] >> thank you, congressman. >> thank you, everybody. >> think you all for coming. >> read the book, the book is fantastic. you are going to love the book. if you are enjoying book tv, sign-up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive the schedule of upcoming programs, discussions, book festivals and more. "wu tv," every sunday on c-span 2 or anytime online at book tv.org. television for serious readers. all this month what's the

best of c-span's q&a on sunday, journalist and historian craig furman analyzes american presidents through the books they've written in his book author in chief, sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span q&a. listen to q&a and all our podcasts on our free c-span now app. weekends on c-span 2 are intellectual fees. every saturday, american history tv documents america's story and on sundays, book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span 2 comes from these television companies and more, including charter communications. charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internetproviders and we are just getting started. building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. e editor chiet