lines. so you see every every town and i would look up every town for its newspaper. well i'm afraid we are out of time. and so people will be, i'm sure, ready to rush out and their coffee and other refreshments outside for the next 30 minutes or so by. i really want to thank you, ted, for a wonderful book. lincoln on the verge again is title and for a wonderful, fascinating conversation. thank you very much. thank you, paul thank you all.

of "the president travels by train: politics and pullmans. .. the president travels by training it is his first 29 books. came out the first edition in 1996. it is been updated several times in 2018 was rereleased

by eco books and media i believe is the third or fourth edition of the book. bob himself as a journalist by trade. and 38 years worked for the huntington herald a dispatch in huntington west virginia where he currently lives. he has a ba and ma from marshall university. while he was in college he worked summers for the railroad. that actually is how i got to know, bob. i interned at the museum in baltimore, maryland. mutual interest and admiration got us together. i welcome bob and i will begin the presentation now. one other programming notes, so understand all presidents use trains to travel around and still do on some occasions. we picked seven presidents because of some specific issues they encountered or specific milestones that are

associated with their presidential train travel. at the conclusion of the stock are going to end with a couple video presentations from the george h.w. bush funeral train courtesy of union pacific so please stick around for that to think you will enjoy that very much. there are three main i guess pieces of presidential train and travel the campaign which is prime which are most familiar with, while in office and then after the president passes away. were going to move from president to president and talk about all three of those even though it may be a little out of chronological order it would probably the best way to handle it. so bob are you there? >> wonderful thank you for joining us today. we are going to start with the first president to travel by train and how they did it. so bob, talk to us a little bit about andrew jackson, john

quincy adams who was at first and there's a difference between them. cliques quincy adams was the first it was after he was president. to be a member of the u.s. house of representatives. he traveled to massachusetts we got to baltimore, the railroad had just started because to go by horses. he had where they put up on a

flat car and hauled in about 7 miles from baltimore and then they lowered his horse and wagon off the flat car and with the rest of the way on the road. since the first piggyback operation that piggyback means placed on flat cars and when they get where they are going they fix them up and take them off the flat car. very few people know that first piggyback operation took place in 1840. it was the first sitting president to ride a train. he went to maryland by

horseback and when he started back he had a crossing and they had railroad cars the call steam cars because the steam locomotive was part of the train. he got in the steam car and road several miles back. and he was astonished the train was traveling so fast. >> i can imagine that new technology back then was certainly impressive and quite frightening to a lot of people that were not used to that speed of travel. speaking, before we get to the next item we are looking here, ladies and gentlemen at what are called these are cars are the baltimore museum in

baltimore, maryland you may have seen these before because both of these specific cars were used in a movie which featured john quincy adams traveling aboard these very cars. which leads me too another item, bob, the first railroad in the united states also involved john quincy adams in 1833, do you want to talk a little bit about that? >> i don't remember that much about it. the first railroad accident in the united states on friday november 8, he was going across new george jersey towards washington about halfway between an emberley railroad. in an unheard-of speed of 25 miles per hour.

because the cars careened down the embankment the coach remained upright no one in it was hurt. but the one just behind his overturned and two men were killed instantly. they were mutilated beyond expectation. >> this is from a contemporary report, bob correct? >> corrected. >> so quincy adams even though he was not the first sitting president to write he certainly was involved in several early milestones in presidential train travel and unfortunately the railroad wreck is one of the ones is most notable because the 25-mile per our travel was something that was very, very unusual for that time for that era. by the way, bob reference to journals if you look at the picture we are looking at right now in the cars, down by the wheel on all the cars in the center of the will is a

brown circular item is where the car actually sits on the wheel itself. when the car rolls down the track those could get very hot. so hot the metal would melt in the cart would fall down off the will and that is what bob was describing when he talks about the journal, which is what it called broke and the cart derailed or fell off the wheels and fell down the embankment. >> all right, we'll move on to president abraham lincoln which is someone we probably all know a little bit about as far as his presidential travel. this image you are looking at right now highlights the stops he made on his journey from illinois after he was elected president to washington d.c. you can see a little fuzzy, i apologize for that. he made 93 individual stops on his journey.

real journeys that were not like what they are now they were not very quick at all. but before this, before this journey he spent quite a bit of time in illinois traveling by train because of the lincoln douglas debates. bob, do you want to talk a little bit about mr. lincoln's problems at the illinois central railroad during that period of time? >> i found it in a book called lincoln and the railroads 227 copies were ever printed. was by her have no idea it existed before he did research for this book. you can buy this book from other libraries. anyway i finally got a copy in the pages could not be cut

apart. nobody had even read the book took the book home and copied every page in it. but my favorite story writing for a newspaper in new york city talks about a conversation he had with abraham lincoln on a boxcar. at 9:00 o'clock on a hot sultry evening that is where the train stops or someone is to be picked up or dropped off it's not a regular stop. they're getting to a station the train intended to take after waiting a half an hour for the train to come in at thunderstorm at the station.

it was then in their when he was clerking the highest of the political ambition was to be a member of the state legislature. this of course he said with a laugh but my friends got me into this business being a railroad lawyer. i do not consider myself qualified for the united states senate i took a long time to persuade myself that i was. i'm convinced that in spite of it all i am saying to myself every day it's too big a thing for you you will never get it. his wife insisted i learn to be a senator and the president

of the united states to the last words when his own mother read news in his last ambition, just think he exclaimed there is such a sucker as me. [laughter] >> it is one of the stories, bob, you don't often think of abraham lincoln is a very funny man with a lot of humor. if you read deeply into into the stories like you have just done, he did have an incredible sense of humor and was quite a humble man. i'm not sure mary todd could force them into the presidency but certainly her inspiration and standing with him, behind him and often times and got him to where he ultimately landed. later on in this document talk about couple other first ladies that played a similar role in the lives of their husbands, the presidency.

one other thing, bob, could you talk about what it's like to travel on a train during lincoln's time? we often think in contemporary terms about the comforts we all enjoy in an automobile, and train with air-conditioning the comforts of modern era. can you talk a little bit about what it is like for president lincoln even after he was elected for example during the journey took from springfield to d.c. what was it like for him to be on board a train back then? >> even before my time not sure how it would've worked out except never had coal stoves or wood stoves in them to keep warm in the winter. there is no such thing as air conditioning no such thing as reclining seats or rotating seats.

you see people on stagecoaches would have been much better than that. >> there is obviously no electricity so they use candles are often quite dangerous or dangerous as spilling the oil or dropping a candle on the wooden car. we will not go into recounting those problems but certainly that era of train travel from the 1860s until probably early 1900s was quite dangerous because of that and many other issues that again we won't go into on this conversation. in the early 1900s passenger cars had a stool. they were much more substantial and much safer. >> agreed, agreed.

that is what we use today. so, moving to a little bit more somber subject, bob, we are looking right now abraham lincoln's funeral car that was used to transport his remains from washington d.c. back to springfield, illinois where he was laid to rest. do you want to talk a little bit about the funeral train in the way it unfolded and what the public perception of it was? >> that funeral car was made for lincoln to write in it but ended up being his funeral car because he was assassinated shortly before his term was to expire. the route it took back to springfield, illinois was similar to with some exceptions the trip he made to

washington. the stories about so many people putting files on fires on the rails ahead of the train the wheels would spin and slip that have to get the fire off the wheels before the train could proceed. back in the days when embalming was not the exact science it is now, they would have materials in the funeral car under the casket to touchup the face of the deceased several times on that trip. it took several days to get his body back to the burial. >> we are looking a picture now, bob, a broader image of the funeral train. you won't notice the decorations that festooned the outside with the different nting, the flags and going

to move to another picture here which is a little bit more close up of a locomotive. you' notice there's a picture of abraham lincoln prominently placed on the front of the locomotive so people were aware of the significance of the tp. do you see the locomotive itself is quite small compared to modern standards. for the era this was top-of-the-line transportation. we are going to move on now to theodore roosevelt. his presidency of course began suddenly with the assassination of william mckinley. but before we get to that were going to talk a little bit about president roosevelt the campaigner. he has the nickname the bull moose he was a man of boundless energy, quite an intellectual and quite a physical presence in modern politics he be the guy that sucked the oxygen out of the

room when he answered it. so bob khanna in your book you talk about a conundrum for roosevelt. he obviously enjoyed train travel and traveled extensively. is also the first president to fly an airplane. and of course that was after his administration. when he traveled for campaign for vice president with mckinley in 1900, he traveled 21000 miles during that campaign on a train and made 673 speeches according to your book. here we have a picture of him making a speech from the rear platform of an observation car. can you talk a little bit about what that speech was like and how it unfolded when the train arrived? >> when the train got to a certain city would come out on the private car like you see

in the picture there. he would talk directly to the people. this was a lot better the way presidents are today 35000 feet up in the air of heard of truman why do you do this? why do you go all over the country speaking to people from the rear of the train? the people got to know the presidents that way. they got to know the candidates, they got to know what they believed in, with a promise to do so they could reassure they could find out that he would do what he said he's going to do.

>> the president or the candidate in this case would sometimes debark from the train and walk to the crowd, correct? was security like back then? >> not very good. as a matter fact there's a story is not about teddy roosevelt himself, but tom buie's train stopped at center city in western kentucky i think he was campaigning against harry truman and the engineer of the train moved ahead in the tank. and then he came back and uncoupled the train, the train started inching backwards.

people were worried some is going to get killed or hurt or run over by that train there was a police officer named chapman who very quickly reached up and pulled a lever that put the brakes on the train. and stop people from getting hurt or killed by that reversal -- reverse movement. from that time on up was the best way to find out what a man is, what a man looks like, when a man thanks like, but it does have danger for. >> it actually does it still does today. as we will save it to the union pacific video there's a couple of clips of people standing in it. and respecting president bush as he moved to college station on his final train trip but you'll notice some people

are's the ending dangerously close to the tracks which is something will definitely discourage you. a couple of other things, bob, in 1906 in your book you discuss the cost of all of this. that is something we really have not touched down yet. obviously the railroads cannot do this for free. if you are traveling well over 20000 miles there are expenses associated with that. 1906 congress passed an appropriation for the presidential travel. you want to talk a little bit about that? >> i have been much better concerning that with calvin coolidge. calvin coolidge was a very feeble man. he did not like the idea of having a special train for the president said you can put my car in the rear of the train

of a regular chamber don't do a special train. while in december of 19207 i think was in chicago there are two places in that city. and he decided he would go to a regular compartment and a regular sleeping car and i believe the name of the car's president grants of all things. he would eat there, he would sleep in that compartment, mrs. put before trains were air-conditioned, the car was very hot even though it was in december. so we had to sit there in his

compartment with the door open and everybody on the train who walked past throughout the train walked through the aisle and look in there and gawk at him. and he did not like that. the very insecure situation with the secret service threat. i remember one time that waiter asked him as your coffee all right? he just said yes. then later he asked his wife why would he say that maybe there is something wrong with it.

talk about his frugal habits is very frugal in speech to however the stop was was on a trip east. secret service men said there's a lot of people here that want to hear from you. only came out taking a long time with questions just as he came out, the train started forward. and he said goodbye. >> they heard from him bob regards yes they did. he was a man of a conman in his speech as well there's no doubt about that. so the image we are looking at is not a mistake it's called

the stereoscopic image is designed to provide depth of field if you bring the proper eyeglasses to see that from the stare at me and each i would see one side of it. but the glasses on you see a very deep field on the at the altar is in the very back. you notice tr is on the platform as he traditionally was pretty leaning forward because he's missing something that's a more modern invention will talk about at a moment there is a voice amplification or pa system is about to call it now. so all of the campaigning done in this area was shouting at out. you can see up close the people are to the car because they wanted to hear what he had to say. if you are not good at projecting your voice you could even call it yelling, people cannot hear what you had to say. so everything is said did not make much difference because people couldn't hear. especially reporters want to crowd out very close to the

car will see a couple pictures later on of this, trying to get the exact words the president spoke or the candidate in this case. so they can report their stories accurately and accuse each other of misquoting all the political stuff you understand happens then and now. the other thing back to the money when roosevelt campaign in 1900 as a vice president joel candidate the cost of that camping trip was $118,000. there is no money to pay it. there's a deep set of embarrassment congress in 1906 passed a law that allowed for presidential travel and an appropriation of $25000 which seems today like almost nothing but back then was a princely sum of money for presidential travel by train. we will move a bit ahead. this is another example of the

image and the weight trains were decorated, bob mentioned earlier the flowers that were placed on the rails for the lincoln funeral train. this is a more happy occasion. you can see the locomotive is decked out in all sorts of finery. i'm not sure a heart record rear rotor would appreciate that but certainly the people writing on the train loved it. i want to move onto a president who you might not expect to see in this presidential. moran harding 192-01-9203 surgeon office. here he is on the back of a car as tradition would have it , with his wife and an associate. they are about too go on a trip. the reason i picked president harding and of course all of the presidents are covered in bob's book by the way five not already mentioned that is because there is his wife waving to the crowd you notice she is a decked out in the early 20th century

traditional garb, wearing gloves and a hat. the reason i mention lauren harding as he took an enormous trip probably one of the longest trips a sitting president took to alaska to complete the last major river constructed in the united states the alaska railroad. but before that he also this is a picture by the way of a locomotive that was decked out to pull that train, here is a picture of him the locomotive in alaska as his train wound toward the location. before we get to that though, he actually enjoyed something president teddy roosevelt and president wilson did not. that is amplification of his voice. by this time in the teens and early teen 20s, at&t actually installed a voice amplification system that is what they called it in the presidential car.

they were able to use it to broadcast the voice. we'll see pictures of it that look like here in a minute. but first let's talk a minute bob about the presidential trip to alaska. now harding did not campaign much by train called their front porch campaign people came to him rather than him going to them. when he was elected, bob, he actually took the throttle for a trip in texas, june or a little bit about that? >> he, in that case was allowed to ride the calves and locomotive. on several occasions and were in the cab of the locomotive in the alaska train was a steam train and he ran it for several miles.

from the engineer standing right beside it in. i would really like to mention one thing that happened to him before he became president in 1820, he did not make very many campaign trips. he did make one and as he was coming down the railroad, and was at a small stop called millwood they were proposed to stop there but there is steering of some kind in the car broke and derailed the car. it laid across the trestle about 900 feet without going into the creek or the high river.

it was crushing but did not actually leave the track until's on the south side of the trestle. harding and his wife were in the car and trying their best and they came out to see what had happened. they viewed the wreck simply left the car where it was cut on the next path forward to make a station stop in mason city and use what happened to him as an illustration you better let me keep the other

parties or belittling this nation for quick to come up with the campaign slogan right on the spot. >> you mentioned the other party, bob, james cox was his opponent in the 1920 election. an interesting observation you made in your book is when james cox was traveling by train which was obviously the most effective way to travel, he was going from dayton, ohio to san francisco. plan on board the train they published a newspaper that was specific to the train, four pages long that they distributed every day while they were in route. so that media could be informed of what candidate cox was up to what his thoughts were at any particular issue of the day. as far as i could tell from your book, bob, that was the only time a newspaper was published on board a train while it was in motion is that a fair statement?

>> i believe that is correct, that is right for clicks they are combining two of your favorite professions in journalism and railroading. facts by the way even though he didn't win the election, mr. cox traveled on was 22000 miles campaigning by train and met estimated almost 2 million people during that trip. probably it shook half of those hands. some don't think just because you knew people you could win an election. unfortunately he was defeated by president harding. so moving on to harding's trips to alaska, bob 70 people were in this party. june of 19203 and the goal was to complete the alaska railroad with the traditional gold spike. here's a couple images i have moved through this and journey to what then and some would say now is quite a wilderness.

a little too far ahead. talk a little bit about the significance of the gold spike and what that meant in 1869 as well as with the gold spike why was at a significant event? >> signalized the completion of the railroad line actually looks kind of awkward trying to drive a spike into the rail the lead him to do the first whack room people who did that kind of thing for a living. but it was a very hot day i

think that spelled some trouble for him. >> we are about to move into that. after that he completed the last spike the plan was to take a train all the way back from fairbanks to seattle i believe they took a ship. but then they're going to take a train back to washington d.c. on that trip, early on in the trip president harding took ill and they diverted to san francisco. and ultimately passed away in san francisco, which led to this. now not to be morbid, but you will notice his remains are being loaded is covered in the flag which is tradition but it is being loaded haphazardly into a baggage card to be transported back to washington d.c. and i point this out to not because i think they're doing anything wrong, but because this process of moving the

remains of the deceased present by train has evolved a lot from the era of lincoln, now or look at harding and we are about to move into the fdr and later eisenhower and george h.w. bush. it is a much more solemn occasion you see in this photo here which i wanted to share these part of the contrast of what will be talking about here a little bit. so now would like to move onto franklin roosevelt the management of enormous amount of time on a train while he was president. in fact in your book you talk about, you mentioned he traveled about 243,000 miles on 399 distinctive trips. but you also called the roosevelt administration and his travel on train a curious a time of curious transition. do you want to talk a little bit about what that means? >> the biggest change occurred

after the united states entered world war ii, after the bombing of pearl harbor with the japanese on december 7. i think it was early in 1942 they gave him especially modernized and re- equipped car i believe is fernand magellan. it was one of the six cars this one in particular is 19209. and get this, is reduced from five -- four observation

lounge making the car bulletproof and bombproof. there's a 3-inch thick bulletproof glass which would handle machine gun fire. there were escape hatches in case the thing derailed, escape hashes in the observation lounge. and on the side of the car special wheels were installed to support the extra weight. in the weight increase from 80 times to 142 it was the heaviest that ever been in a

rebuilt. one stage deployment for ammunition. in what appeared to 6000 pounds of ice to keep the car cool. we would to run stop along the way for rented ice. it had a telephone when the train was standing the telephone was plugged into an outlet. when the train was moving it was connected to a communications car that could put the president in touch with anyone anywhere. the back door that led from the land to the platform weight 1500 pounds. i can only be opened from the inside.

only the rear board and then later the president in the united states sealed the presidential seal was on the rear window and the railing was made higher because roosevelt had polio the higher platform would help him hold himself up they tried to keep people from finding out. later in elevator was installed so they could wheel him in privacy it would go up on the platform and go right into the car. lewis ownership was transferred it was called u.s.

number one. roosevelt traveled 50000 miles with about truman traveled almost 35000 miles in the i have travel in three times as a matter fact summit had the bright idea when time dedicate a new college or something. and that would leave a very small tried to speak with people not very many people

could get the president to see him or hear him and he never put it that way again. the lesson the car was used was by eisenhower and then of course use the car in 1984 october 12, 1984 through western ohio. but the cars a water system was not working. every time you had use the bathroom you had to move forward into the private car for clicks that car right now bob is on display where? in miami, florida for. >> if you are interested in seeing something that's really a part of presidential history, that is where you can go see it. >> that is right. >> we are here, we see a picture of president roosevelt sitting in the lounge area of the car. you see the shades are drawn

on the windows. he often spent time there playing cards and entertaining guests who were aboard the train serving them drinks a lot of stores we don't a time to go into president roosevelt spend his hospitality and board the train. especially getting the drinks the guest preferred rather than the ones that were offered. also a couple of things you might find interesting of president roosevelt he was quite superstitious about his train travel. he never start a train trip on the 13th of the month. and he also never left on a friday. if he had to always leave ten minutes before the strike of midnight or ten minutes after into the saturday. and finally, bob, one other item on president roosevelt one of the interesting stories about roosevelt and later truman and eisenhower's this is a business of who pays what to write a presidential train?

by this time trains were exceeding 20 passenger cars and lengthy has a president, he had his staff, good newspaper reported that other politicians invited. and one of your quotes in your book says one of the conductors he spent more time working as a detective rather than a conductor. tuna talk a little bit about what he meant by that? >> oh well, the guest is the word implies and they would do since the things. remember on one is in eisenhower funeral train they did not let any spirits on board when the train left washington.

but people started demanding. so they stopped and loaded up. and that caused people to get loaded. here's one story is that secret service man think it was a military type of some kind came out of his compartment and was dressed in his underwear. [laughter] then to get them back into the apartment very quickly before the powers that be saw that person. eisenhower's body and a gun metal casket.

lady was at the private car in the rear with her family. david eisenhower and his wife have all kinds of problems propped up this was supposed to be secret people were not supposed to know what route the train would take. and a certain reporter found out what the route was i won't call his name but you're looking at him right now. [laughter] all search sorts of trouble all of the people sit out in the plaza next to the platform.

they saw it was out so than they came out and then it was not a secret. the whole story first was riding the train they knew they had not realized the casket when it was moved onto the baggage car had to be turned around to be available from the other side of the car when i got to abilene. they did not realize that they got into the car and turned around real quick. >> we are going to move through some slides are pretty quick, bob or kind of running out of time and i promise to

run this road efficiently. here we have president truman standing on the rear platform of the magellan to see the presidential seal bob referred to earlier below him using newfangled technology of microphones and he is delivering a speech. president truman very much enjoyed traveling by train would often take a morning constitutional just by getting off the car and walk into the railroad yard wherever the train was staying overnight. you will notice here president truman would also entertain foreign heads of states. in this case winston churchill the former prime minister. [inaudible] mr. churchill would secretly deliver the iron curtain speech. president truman accompanied him there by train. cartoons of course who were going to miss out on that. here are the campaign trains.

this is a good opportunity, bob to talk about what is a whistle stop and truman whistle stop campaign. >> the whistle stop referred to some place, city, some town that the train would come in and blow the whistle to tell the public the president is here. you'd see a crowd it's amazing how many people you'd find in even a small town on the president of the united states was coming through. but anyway that was. phrase came from fact it would blow the whistle really loud really low to let the people know the president was coming to town. >> this is actually, this is a very, very famous photo the

paper was prematurely published he did not in fact defeat truman. the reason i included it he is on the rear platform of the magellan holding that paper up and of course he's got a gigantic smile on his face because he just won the election as president. >> in the late evening of november 2 show that paper in the st. lucia st. louis station anyhow, he's shown that paper his wife had just passed it to him. he was so surprised and elated he had to show it to everybody. >> is a very, very famous

picture. here are some folks some reporters doing their job is close to the candidate or the president as they could with their gear right there and doing their filing. we'll move through this rather quickly and are running out of time but his present eisenhower hosting mr. churchill. eisenhower campaigning, you concede that safety was not a priority for people watching the president give a speech their people on the roof. this is president eisenhower's funeral train. this is the baggage car bob referenced earlier. in travel as any other service service man or woman would travel after they passed away. and his wish was granted. here they are notice the contrast between this and the way they handled president harding's remains when they saw that photo earlier. move pretty quickly through this to and here he is -- here

she is with her associates ready to depart on a campaign special. here's president johnson of course with his wife. in this case and many other cases is that example they made a lot of giveaways, buttons, whistles, other items you could receive when you got on board and handed out to the media when they had a stop got to meet with the public. this is a little map of the route is a southern trip from washington d.c. down to new orleans is obviously not to scale and not exactly accurate. but she loved doing it. president johnson was very pleased with the results. i want to conclude today with president george h.w. bush is the namesake of our library here in college station

texas. bob you were of course on board giving the usual high sign and smiling to supporters for another picture of him by the way this is not the magellan he is on he has on business card on the podium of course is provided by the white house. next buy. see supporters right here's another photo of him. now will move into closer to the president back in 2005 we were able to leap 4141 he is the 41st president. and here is mr. bush there on the lower right.

this is during the president's funeral train. you will see this as outpouring of emotion was really amazing. i expected it but i was overwhelmed by the grieving and support as a child from using did college station which is about 90 miles. here is a picture in texas it's a little blurry i apologize but almost the entire population of the town came out pretty course the 4141 was on the head of the train. this is when they were in college station, texas as a locomotive and in front of it the volunteer which is a unit in the corps of cadets at texas a&m university. here is the solemn removal of the presidents remains a baggage car. he, like president eisenhower wanted to travel in the baggage car his member of the armed forces. here is the moment when they are transitioning to the stairs to carry him to the hearse. and now i want to show you a

little video provided by union pacific from the perspective of the locomotive. [background noises] [background noises] [background noises] [background noises] you see at the moment. [background noises]

[background noises] [background noises] finally i want to leave you with a plate and the final trip of president bush. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> what you want the men and women to say to us when we are no longer there? we are more driven to succeed than anyone around us. they want to remember you are exempt exactly that a much more part we want to miss you your decency, sincerity the

best father a son or daughter can have. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> and in our grief and holding mom's hand again. [background noises] the next presentation for today i appreciate your time and i apologize for not having a moment for questions. so bob, i want to thank you again. for joining us today ensuring stories rebooked. if you're interested in many, many more stories this is the president travels by train the updated edition available online or perhaps through interlibrary loan or at your local bookstore. so thank you again, bob. : : :