courtney. welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> tell us about the college republican national committee. what is about and the mission command >> it is 8092 by a group of college students in michigan. since then we have grown to all 50 states plus puerto rico and guam. we have chapters on college campuses. our mission is to get republicans hope at all levels the maga republican party on campus. >> are you affiliated with the republican national committee? >> we are recognized by them as the official collegiate arm of the republican party. we are not financially supported by then and we do not pay due to them either. how are you financially supported? >> 100% supported by donors. we do not charge any dues to our members. we know how hard it is to be a college student. we are famously broke. we do not require that our chapters pay any money to us. we are 100% per started --

supported by donors. how big is your staff? >> we have a staff of six people. i am staff and board, chairman and ceo. i am chairman of the board and i run our staff. >> have you started -- circle we will be this year for budget coverage. david pekoske is testifying on the president's 2025 budget request. budget coverage on c-span3 . committee on homeland security and maritime security

will come to order. without objection the chair may declare the subcommittee in rhesus at any point. the purpose is to examine the tsa budget request for fiscal year 2025. i would like to thank our witness administrator david pekoske for joining us today . without objection the german from louisiana, mr. carter is permitted to sit with the subcommittee and ask questions of the witnesses. so order. also want to welcome a new member of the subcommittee, mr. kennedy. thank you for joining us. i now recognize myself for an opening statement. on behalf of the members of our subcommittee i'm pleased to welcome administrator pekoske to discuss tsa fiscal year 2025 budget request. it has been two decades since the establishment after the terrorist attacks on september 11, 2001. while tsa has grown and evolved as an agency, its mandate from

the american people remains the same. to safeguard our transportation system. from freight rail, trucking to commercial aviation, tsa leads the efforts in facilitating the state and free movement of people and goods throughout the united states. as transportation systems we know our economy depends on us to succeed and remain competitive around the world. throughout this last year the subcommittee has conducted hearings on issues ranging from tsa's modernization efforts to the role of technology in aviation security to the identity management work. this has been imported work that gives us a better understanding of where tsa stands today to carry out the mission, tsa needs technology and manpower to stay ahead of the evolving landscape and to keep, flowing freely. we recognize that manpower continues to be an issue and this subcommittee is committed to working with tsa to ensure their front-line workers receive an equitable compatible rage. while more work needs to be done to ensure the long-term viability of tsa's new pay plan, the

increasing retention rates are an encouraging sign but i'm confident that the leadership will continue to be an engaged effective partner with this committee and addressing manpower issues. i am less confident, however, in the development and deployment of new technology. last year i raise concerns with a painfully so timelines for tsa's rollout of the new typography systems and the second-generation of authentication technology at tsa checkpoints across the country. these are estimated to be complete in fiscal year 2042 and 2049, respectively. that is simply unacceptable. one year later i'm concerned the agency has not made enough strides to expedite the rollouts of these critical new

technologies. in fact, when examined the budget request it appears that technology has taken a back seat. i'm concerned tsa has not requested enough technology. procurement budget request for fiscal year 2025 is over $40 million less than what was enacted in 2023 of the research and develop a request for this fiscal year was barely half the size of the agency's rnd budget in fiscal year 2023. i understand the agency is including a request to end the diversion of the passenger security, which would help the agency account for some of these changes. i am firmly against the diversion and recognize the need for congress to engage this issue more thoughtfully and the bait and switch that is currently happening. simply put, the american people paid $5.60 per flight for security. all of it should go to to security. despite these challenges, i am pleased that tsa is making tremendous progress with i.d.s. through partnership with states and global tech leader such as

apple and google, tsa is working to integrate mobile driver's licenses and other forms of digital identification into their security screening process. tsa's work on identity management is making security processes safer, more efficient and ultimately less intrusive to individual passengers. i am proud the agency is now the de facto leader within the federal government in the space. as passenger bombs at airports continue to increase the role of technology is even more important to ensure checkpoints are operating efficiently and that passengers have plenty of time to make the fights. this is not the time to lose focus on technology. enclosing, transportation sector needs engaged effective tsa to ensure the free flow of goods, people and services across the country and around the world. administered pekoske, my colleagues stand with you to fulfill your mandate to the american people. i appreciate you being here today and look forward to your

testimony. direct denies the ranking member, the gentleman from michigan for his opening statement. >> good afternoon and thank you for calling today's hearing. before i begin, i want to welcome guzman kennedy. to his first hearing as the member of our subcommittee. welcome. i look forward to working with you. i also want to thank administrator pekoske. for joining us to discuss the budget request for fiscal year 2025. last year, tsa based a major funding shortfall as the agency sought more than $1 billion increase to pay for salary, raises an expanded collective bargaining rights. i strongly supported the effort i was glad that we, in congress

were able to feel tsa's request and fun critical improvements for the workforce. for fiscal 2025, to continue these workforce initiatives, tsa has asked and requested a $377 million increase for periodic pay raises and career ladder promotions which will keep tsa employees in line with other federal workers. it is critical that congress can then use these efforts and your support for the new pay system is having a significant positive impact. pay raises are making an enormous difference in the lives of transportation security officers. federal air marshals and other tsa employees across the country.

they are also helping tsa address high rates of attrition, which have plagued the agency for years and have now fallen nearly in half. tomorrow, tsa and the union representing the tso workforce, the american federation of government employees will formalize a new collective targeting agreement that will provide additional benefits for the agency and its workforce. i look forward to hearing more from the administrator of the impact of these workforce initiatives are having on tsa's ability to carry out its security mission. i also hope to hear more about the difficult choices tsa has made to determine funding. tsa's budget request does not include

funding for the visible intermodal prevention and response program which is critical to's serve as transportation security. the request also does not include funding for law enforcement officers and k-9 programs which airport rely on to help with security cost. in addition the request includes approximately 90 million for computer to carry on baggage screening machines. still not enough to allow the program to deploy machines to all screening checkpoints on a reasonable timeframe. i hope that congress will be able to restore and increase funding for these programs.

doing so will require creative solutions. as it stands, tsa's budget request assumes that congress will be able to redirect her tsa $1.6 billion and passenger security fee selections which are slated for diversion to the general treasury. in fiscal 2024, congress returned $800 million in fees but doing so required an extension of cuts to mandatory spending programs in fiscal 2032. returning twice that the in fiscal 2025 is required twice as large an offset bird to go be on the budget request and restoring funding to keep programs, congress should also consider a modest increase to passenger security fees. i am proud to cosponsor ranking

member thompson's bill to fund the tsa act which would aim the diversion of passenger security fees and raise fees by two dollars per trip to provide tsa with the resources it desperately needs. i encourage my colleagues to get the bill serious consideration as a solution for tsa's funding challenges. i look forward to today's discussion and mr. chair, i yield back. >> thank you to the ranking manner -- never part opening same as may be submitted for the record. i am pleased to have a distinguished witness before us today on this critical topic but i asked that our witness please rise and raise his right hand. do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will get before this committee on homeland security of the united states

house of representatives, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you got a? thank you, please be seated. let the record reflect that the witness has answered in the affirmative. i would like to formally introduce our witness david pekoske is serving his second term as the administrator of the transportation security administration. in this capacity he leaves a workforce of 60,000 employees and is responsible for the security operation of 444 airports throughout the united states. under his leadership tsa has improved security through close partnerships and alliances, culture of innovation and development of a dedicated workforce. prior to his tenure at tsa, he served as the 26 vice commandant of the u.s. coast guard. culminating a coast guard career that included extensive operational and command experience. i thank the administrator for being here today and i recognize administrator pekoske for five minutes to summarize his opening statements. >> members of the subcommittee,

thank you for the opportunity to peer abort -- for you this afternoon i like to offer michael rollins is on the passing of donald payne jr., member of the subcommittee. a wonderful man and public servant. i offer our condolences to his family, and his colleagues. you will be missed. turning to the budget, i appreciate your support of our inactive fiscal year 2020 for appropriation. i poignantly annualize the compensation plan which provides funding to pay tsa employees at the same pay rate as the rest of the federal government. since his compensation plan was first implemented less than a year ago, it has had significant positive impacts on tsa. our retention is up and we have many more candidates pursuing opportunities to serve and morale has improved as reflected in the highest ever budget employee viewpoint survey results in tsa's history . tomorrow, i will sign a new and expanded bargaining agreement which will also be

fully supported in the fiscal year 2020 for appropriation. the president's 2025 request seeks to build on fi '24 and recognizes the choices that need to be made concerning the funding constraints we face. i believe this budget provides the right balance and positions tsa trimming the agile security agency when we were established nearly 23 years ago. ensuring security requires constant focus, continued investment and hard work. i would like to thank our workforce and industry partners in aviation and service transportation both domestic and abroad the role and contributions in strengthening the security of our transportation system. this is national police week established by a joint resolution of congress in 1962. we pay recognition to bond officers who have lost their lives in line of duty. i'm grateful for the law enforcement officers at tsa, our criminal investigators and

our law enforcement partners across america for the dedication protecting our transportation system for the transportation sector is in the mists of a remarkable recovery from the pandemic but passing the bombs are up by almost 13% in 2023. this year the growth continues from 9% growth at miami international 8% in detroit, 11% at lafayette regional .6% at jfk. 10% in tampa and furthermore, l.a.x. and buffalo have seen 7% and 14% rates and increased volumes, respectively. seven of the 10 busiest days ever in u.s. airports occurred in the last 12 months. and two in the past week. we project that 3.1 million passengers will be sprayed on some days this coming summer tomorrow we will hold a press event with our industry partners at laguardia airport. we will talk about our collective readiness and the strength of our partnership that will likely be a busy summer yet. an important priority in the 2025 request is investment in technology. two ongoing

technology projects in particular are included in the fy '25 request for the improved security effectiveness, efficiency and the customer experience. the first is our upgrade of checkpoint x-ray technology to tie opportunity or ct systems. at the rate of investment at the request which is $90 million, our capital investment plan shows that this project will be complete in 2042, 18 years now. similarly, our upgrade of checkpoint identity verification technology to include facial recognition increases performance and this critical first element of checkpoint screening at the rate of investment, which is $9 million, our capital investment plan shows this part will be complete in 2049, 25 years from now. we have the opportunity to accelerate both products with additional investment as tsa has the vendors and processes in place to complete them in this decade, not in the 2040s. one solution to the current budget environment may be that

9/11's passengers security force. the president's budget has been a coming by legislative proposal that would end the diversion to deficit reduction of $1.6 billion per year in 9/11 security fee revenue per the proposal would instead restore all 9/11 fee revenue to aviation security as intended. the diversion of the revenue began a bipartisan budget act of 2013 and is due to expire at the end of fiscal year 2027. it would provide the flexibility to include more funding in the aviation surety capital fund and operating account especially additionally given the passenger growth we are seeing. i look forward to working with you to fully end the legislative proposal and the fee diversion completely and direct all fee revenue to its intended purpose of age ethan security. members of the subcommittee, thank you for your support of psa. i look forward to your questions and are working with

all of you to ensure that tsa has the resources and authorities needed to meet the mission in protecting our nation's vital transportation system. thank you. >> thank you, administrator. members will be mechanized by orders of ciardi for the five minutes of question but i recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. administrator pekoske, you said the authorization to divert the passenger fee ends in '27. when you make your estimates of 2042 and 2049, is that assuming that the diversion will continue past '27? >> it assumes that the diversion will continue as planned. that is why it is out so far. it would be completed much quicker. >> could you give me a timetable if the diversion ends in '27, how much quicker can you implement the new technologies? >> if it ends in '25, rather than 27 --

>> i said '27 per your authorization ends in '27 but assume better than zabriskie 27. how much quicker can you get it done? >> if it ends in '27, we can get the verification project on in 2033. we get that top margaret be done in 2032. >> if we end it now, you can do within this decade. you will accelerated by a couple years. how do we compare with other countries. in other words leading edge -- not companies but countries around the world? have you gone around and watch what they're doing and planning what they're planning to do? if we don't invest more in technology are we going to fall behind those countries in the ability to protect the american

passenger? >> i think we'll fall behind to a degree point of the biggest differences the united states has 430 airports in its system. no other country has the number of airports and from my perspective it's important that this computer tomography and the identity verification technology and the in-person screening technology be in every airport, because as you know, if you enter an airport you're in our system overall, so we have a challenge of scale that other countries don't have. there are some countries that are investing heavily in this technology but there are many others that are not yet there. but we've been working hard to kind of bring the baseline of local aviation security up with these technology advancements. >> let's talk about western europe. france, germany, great britain in particular, okay? probably germany and great britain, okay? are they doing something different than we are? are they going to use the same technology that we are? are they looking at something else and also what is there timetable for implementing these new technologies? >> or some countries the timetable is much faster than ours because the airports or just the technology rather than

their federal government, their central government. we are looking at the same technology. will recognize around the globe that computer tomography is the technology of the present and the future. it's got a great deal of future potential out 20 or 30 years. the key challenge that's in front of us right now is an attempt to align standards of technology performance and we made a lot of good progress on that particularly with the european civil aviation conference. >> in those countries and at the individual airports, those airport authorities, et cetera, are they tasked with acquiring the technology that their tsas require? it's not the tsa itself. >> yes or. what happens is the civil aviation authority in those countries establishes the standards of technology performance and then works with the airports to establish a timeline for when they can come in compliance with that and also predicates some passenger convenience issues with the acquisition of that technology. for example, with ct technology you can permit larger volumes

of liquids so that needs to be predicated of course on having ct in place. the other thing i would add is as you know, we are working on a one-stop security prototype that hopefully will kick off in the next several months. part of our requirements and our partners requirement, so it's bidirectional, is we both have ct technology and technology that's performing at the same level in terms of their software packages. >> wouldn't that also work in the united states? we develop the standards, et cetera, then have each individual airport have to abide by those standards and then they would have to purchase the equipment themselves. that could work here in the united states. i was thinking about that. maybe we are looking about this the wrong way, we should be giving it up amongst the 440 airports and tell them, you have to have this by this date and then they'll have it. could we work it that way? i think we could. >> i would submit that the way we are doing it centrally is probably much more efficient because we are a big buyer and we can influence the --

>> we can set up the system. we can say this is what you have to buy through this contract so you still have that economy of scale. but it wouldn't be on the federal government to actually fund every single piece of equipment. you could probably get it done quicker because we say you got to do that within two years, they may be able to do it. i don't know that manufacturing has a capacity but there's different ways to skin this cat so i'm intrigued by the european model and may be we can talk about that a little bit more. my time is up. i know recognize the ranking member, mr. stained are. >> thank you chairman and thank you administrator for your testimony. and thank you for your partnership in advocating for pay raises for tsa employees. as i travel i get a chance to meet with the hard-working men and women of tsa and i clearly, visibly see a difference in

those hard-working officers. i believe the new pay system represents a sea change for tsa and provides more stable footing to mature as an agency. i understand that attrition rates have dropped nearly in half since pay raises have been announced. what impact does the drop in attrition rates have on tsa's day to day operation and how does it impact the culture of the agency? >> thank you sir. you're right. our attrition rates have dropped by 50% and we had in the last month, our lowest attrition rate ever for the overall tsa workforce of 7.8%. we were up in the 20s for a period of time so it's a sea change with respect to attrition. we are also seeing a very

significant change when we open up jobs for competition. we see far more people applying for those jobs than occurred in the last five years so low attrition, more applicant for open positions, and then as i mentioned in the opening statement, we have this survey that every federal agency fills out year-over-year, it's the same year over year so it's very easy to make very good comparisons. highest scores ever in our history over this past year. >> thank you. thank you, and i appreciate that. this new pay system also provides improved career ladder opportunities. what are some of those opportunities and how will they continue to drive improvements for the agency in years to come? >> the career ladder opportunities are critically important for career development and critically important for us to increase the average level of experience in our checkpoint operation so it's higher than what it was a year ago. so the way we work it is if somebody is new to tsa, comes in and starts out at a certain

pay band, the pay ladder provides automatic promotions after a year to the next higher pay band so it provides a very significant incentive for people to progress forward and to stay with the agency. statistically we know that if we have an employee that stays for longer than a year, they are much more likely to stay for five. if they stay for five they're much more likely to stay for a full career and we pattern these latter programs after other agencies, and in particular our pattern was after customs and border protection, which has been very successful in retaining employees. >> thank you. understand tinari will be in new york formalizing the new collective bargaining agreement. and i'm just excited. i wanted to join you but i have work to do here in dc but i'm really excited and i congratulate you for that success.

changing subject here, since the ransomware attack on colonial pipeline in may 2021, tsa has issued a series of cyber security requirements for transportation system owners and operators across various modes of transportation, from pipelines to mass transit and rail to aviation. as industry partners work to implement these requirements and tsa works to develop them into full rulemaking, tsa must have the resources and expertise necessary to understand industry operations, engage with stakeholders, phelipe well-informed policies and inspected the regulatory compliance. mr. administrator, what cybersecurity investment does tsa require in terms of both funding and personnel and also what has tsa done to assess its cybersecurity resource and personnel needs? >> thank you for the questions are and we done an awful lot

with respect to asking for additional funds for cybersecurity resources. we have roughly 200 people now within the agency, so if you think of where we were back in i want to say 2021, when colonial pipeline first occurred, we've made significant progress and one of the things we found is we don't have a shortage of candidates wanting to work in the federal government for however long to help us with our cybersecurity efforts. we have in the fy '24 request, which was funded a bit of an increase. in fy '25 another increase. the increases, though, are constrained by our top line capability. we certainly like to have more because we have a significant responsibility to go out and work with our industry partners and we can regulate pipeline systems, rail systems, airlines and airports, so it's a big swath of the transportation sector and a bigger inspection

workforce would really help us out. >> thank you. thank you for your answer and mr. chair, i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back, i know recognize the newest member of the subcommittee, the gentleman from new york, mr. kennedy. >> thank you very much, and administrator pekoske, it's a pleasure to meet you. thank you for your service. chairman , ranking member, thank you for the kind words. happy to be a part of this wonderful committee. i was reminded earlier in the homeland security committee meeting as a full that this committee began out of new york and the horrific terrorist attacks of 9/11, and i know our work continues each and every day to secure our country and our travelers. the airports and the ports and the bridges and the freight railways. so thank you, number one, for your service. i also want to thank the workforce. i see there's a number of folks that have joined you here today, tsa officers, and we are

grateful to the workers that keep our travelers moving and safe and our economy moving all at the same time. i'm excited about the fact that you'll be at laguardia tomorrow to sign the collective bargaining agreement, first in quite some time, and well- deserved for those workers. it's good for everyone. on a regular basis, as we travel, the traveling public, in airports for starters, i see those officers laboring to move people through security. depending on what time of day and what airport you're at, the line could be extraordinarily long and the workforce can be extraordinarily overtaxed and overburdened, depending on how many people are working, and

i'm sure they can tell you better than i can that travelers come in waves. we've seen it's. it's a regular occurrence and depending on what hub you're at, at any particular time. what sort of guardrails do you have in place as an organization to keep the flow moving, to keep the ratio of officers in a good place so that the traveling public is moved through in a decisive manner as well as ensuring that those that are traveling are screened effectively? >> sir, thank you for your comments and i'm quite proud of this workforce, of the

representatives that are sitting behind me that do the very hard-working and everyday to make sure that all of us can travel safely and securely, so i really appreciate your comments. in terms of things that we're doing, pay was the big issue. that was our number one priority in the fiscal '24 budget. really appreciate this subcommittee, the appropriations subcommittee and the entire congress supporting us in that regard and we already see as mr. thanedar noted, we already see the benefits of this, not just in the statistics but when you visit the checkpoints and you engage with our officers, they feel more valued and they should always feel very valued and what they do. for me, it's really important that security is our primary focus. as you mentioned, 9/11, our job is on our watch not to ever have a repeat of a terrorist attack on our system. so we emphasize security effectiveness each and every day but importantly, and we talked a little bit about this in all of our opening statements, it's important to give our officers the tools that they need to do this job. is not easy.

if you're looking at an x-ray image, you're looking at hundreds of x-ray images in a given shift, to be able to find some very small items that might represent a hazard to people that are flying. we had over the past year detected over 6700 firearms in accessible property, in carry- on bags, for example. so we have a keen focus on making sure that we put the technology to in place. but i also think what's very important, and i know the officers behind me would agree, is that we work very hard to make sure we have a workplace culture that's positive, that's focused on career development, of helping each individual officer out. so if they can realize their own personal expectations of service and be able to provide that to the passengers we see, and what i think about all the time is i can't name another federal agency that has direct contact with, on a daily basis, 2.5, 2.6 million people and represents the federal government, represents the

united states, represents the tsa to all those travelers so i'm very proud of the work they do and incredibly focused on making sure that my policy is people first. we are a 62,000 person organization. we don't run if we don't place people first and i think that our folks are doing an incredible job, so i appreciate your comments. >> thank you. >> the gentleman yields and the gentleman's time is up. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from louisiana, mr. carter. >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member for allowing me to be on here. thank you very much. i wish to enter this document from sheriff lepanto into the record. >> without objection. >> i want to thank you for the opportunity to be here. sheriff lepanto of louisiana has expressed his concerns about the elimination of funding to the local law enforcement explosive detective k9 teams program and how it would negatively impact public safety across the country.

mr. administering her, thank you for joining us today. i appreciate my colleagues allowing me to weigh on to the subcommittee today and i want to take this opportunity to discuss with the national explosive detection canine team program through tsa, which tsa provides canine and canine training to local law enforcement agencies. for many years tsa has also provided law enforcement agencies participating in the program with reimbursement for the cost of housing and taking care of canines. unfortunately in tsa's budget request from fiscal years 24 and 25, tsa proposed eliminating $34.1 million in funding for canine reimbursements. in the fiscal year 2024, minibus appropriations bill for the department of homeland security, congress followed through on tsa's proposal and eliminated canine reimbursement funding. this funding is critical to supporting local law

enforcement agencies canine operation, which deployed to a wide range of environments and provide explosive detection capabilities without reimbursements, local agencies would be forced to reduce or eliminate their canine programs. mr. administrator, i certainly recognize the tsa has a tough situation and are in a tough spot, trying to balance competing priorities, especially when given the need to increase pay for tsa employees, which i strongly support. however, i'm worried that elimination of canine reimbursements would degrade the ability of law enforcement's enforcement agencies to respond to threats and security incidents within the transportation environment. what impact are you seeing so far for the defunding of this program and have you heard from many local law enforcement agencies, what they do in the

light of this reduction? >> thank you mr. carter. appreciate your comments and question and i would echo your sentiment that the national explosive detection canine program is an extremely valuable program to law- enforcement agencies and to tsa as well. it is the biggest explosive detection canine program in the world. about 1100 canines total. the reason for the reduction is simply the limited top line that we have. in other words, we don't have enough money to fund everything that we need to do. we have to make some very hard choices whenever that happens and one of the hard choices was to eliminate the law enforcement canine reimbursement. but what we did not eliminate is all the support we provide for those canines. we source and train the canines. we train the handlers. we offer training in different techniques. we update the explosive odorless and we do certification processes so my

conversations with officials like sheriff lepanto, it has been listen, this is not something that we want to do. it's something that our budget limitations require us to do. we hope that you don't give up your canines and that you engage with us over the course of the year and renew your agreements with us, which most law enforcement agencies don't -- >> they certainly don't want to, but as you might imagine with the fiscal crunch that you face, local governments likewise face them. but we are constantly faced with pay me now or pay me later scenarios. something is critical as bomb sniffing dogs, drug sniffing dogs, dogs that have the ability to, in a very large swath, save thousands of lives by identifying would be fretz, is one of those things that i would implore you, the agency and others to reconsider given the circumstances and the outcome that can happen in the

wake of having limited or no access to canine response teams. as you develop these new agreements, we work with local law enforcement agencies to understand their needs and impacts of the loss in funding of their operations, and will you consider tailoring each agreement to the needs of law enforcement agencies in question rather than issuing a blanket agreement? as you know, one size does not fit all. different agencies in louisiana particularly, we are -- jefferson parish particularly stronger than any other and often times as to loan their canines to other agencies. this elimination would not only impact the great need at our airports and also our bus stations and throughout the rest of the state so i would really urge that you look at that. i'm also asking, making an

impassioned plea to our friends as we work on funding bills for fiscal year 25. i hope my colleagues on the appropriations committee will take a look at the importance of this program and figure out a way to restore the funding and obviously having your support in that measure is critically important. you can count on our support not only from this committee and homeland security more broadly, but also from members of congress who recognize, we've seen what happened with 9/11. we see what's happening in our country every single day with terrorist threats and you see them far more than ever, bubbles up to the public. this is one of those cases where penny wise and perhaps pound foolish. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired and i recognize the gentleman from new york. >> the federal government's passenger security fee is a total scam. it's a billion-dollar bait and switch collected off of hard- working american air travelers $11.20 at a time. and for my constituents and americans watching at home, in the name of aviation security

and 9/11 airport security, you get charged $5.60 for every one- way trip you take, $11.20 for a round-trip for every airplane ticket. and despite the name of the fee collection program, the passenger security fee, over $1 billion of those funds collected under the guise of more security are diverted to the treasury for expenditures having absolutely zero to do with passenger security and keeping our skies safe. it's a date and switch scam perpetrated by our federal government and hard-working and unknowing americans of the victims, and to use september 11 to perpetuate the scam is especially offensive, especially for a new yorker like myself. as part of the fy '24 appropriations bills, about one third of the diversion will go back to the department of homeland security. it's a start. it's a step in the right

direction. but it's surely not enough. the entire diversion must end and that revenue should only be utilized by the tsa. thank you for being here, sir. i appreciate your input. it's always valued by the committee. my first question is this -- in the absence of the full passenger security fee revenue and due to its diversion, how has the tsa managed the inherent risks to airport security? >> it's very hard to do that and what you see our technology investments we know we need to make. we need to have better x-ray technology across every single checkpoint in every airport in the country. we can't do that. we won't get that done until 2042. the same thing with identity verification. we want to move to facial recognition, digital identities. that should be in every single airport. that's 2049. this is a long, long way off. you heard mr. carter talk about the canine reimbursement program. we can't fund that because our top line is not there. we had to pull back law- enforcement. this is police week.

we had to pull back law- enforcement officer reimbursement programs because of topline constraints. i agree with you 100%. that $1.6 billion was intended for aviation security. it ought to go to aviation security and when that diversion ends and we really hope it does, that it increases the top line of tsa by that amount. >> with our skies be safer if we didn't divert, the federal government did not divert the funds? >> without question. >> with the travel that americans have through the airports be more efficient? would it take less time to get to the security line? >> it would because we could hire more people and we could put better technology in place. >> great, thank you for that. as part of the fy 24 appropriations bill, the funding for security checkpoint technology was also more than halfed from approximately $80 million to approximately $35 million in last year the tsa told this committee that based on past, present and current projected funding it's not until like you just said, 25 years from now, in 2049 that tsa will need full operational

capability for credential authentication technology machines and 18 years from now in 2042 we will meet the standard for checkpoint property screening systems including computing tomography. that was with more than double the fun and it was appropriating the fy 24 bill. administrator, what does that projection look like now, in your view, sir? >> the programs will probably stay within those same general time frames in 2042, 2043, 2049, maybe 2050. but it's just crazy late. when you're looking at 20-plus years, that's a long, long time to wait. i would highlight for you, too, that the cp investment is designed to help us detect very low sizes of explosive, critical to the security of the system, and that needs to be done on an accelerated basis. the other thing i would offer very quickly is our r and d budget was also halved so your

future development is not at the pace that it needs to be at. >> so in contemplation of the past year security fee being improperly diverted, if it wasn't diverted and those two metrics you provided not meeting your goals until 2049 and 2042, if those funds were not diverted, they were used for their intended use, what would you say about those timelines? they would not only shift to the left from 2049 and 42 respectively, about how far would they shift to the left? >> they would shift by about 20 years to the left. you go from the 2040s into the late 2020s and it would allow us also to do a lot of other things that we just can't even contemplate doing right now with our budget constraints. >> i have just a few seconds left. i want to say thanks for being here and informing us on these important issues. there seems to be bipartisan interest in getting this right. i've certainly identified the issue. now it's a matter of ensuring that we account for not only passenger safety but the efficiency that goes in the

airport and plugging holes in our budget, and your testimony today, sir, is valuable to that and i want to say thanks. >> thank you sir, appreciate your support. >> gentlemen's time has expired. we'll go through a second round so i'll be following up on what i ended up with last time and what they do in europe, and what they do in europe, some members that weren't here, especially mr. lewin, it's not the central government that provides the technology of the airports. it's actually the airports themselves and the central government actually sets the standards of what they need. let me go back to that passenger security fee. when it was originally established, i mean i can't imagine that all of it goes to technology. what dell's did it go for? >> it goes to pay and a lot of the development of the programs we have, working with our industry partners to make sure that airports, for example, have security within the airport that is overseen by tsa but not accomplished by tsa.

>> now i'm not going to take much longer on this but i'd like to see you and talk about the possibility of actually changing our model, that the individual airports actually provide the technology that we say they need and that's passed on to the passenger but somehow this passenger fee that we have, also, that diversion, that ends up going to tsa. or at least a portion of it or maybe a portion of it goes back to these airports to provide the -- what they need. but we need to i think explore this a little bit more because i think that these individual airports can probably get their stuff done faster than we can. when they're mandated to do x, y, z by a certain time, they'll do it. the airports generate their own fees and all the fees that are generated at the airport are supposed to be used at the

airport. i know there may be some problems with smaller airports. they don't have the volume, but i want to see how they do this in europe and why they think that's a better model than us. sometimes we just may learn something from them that maybe it is a better model than what we have right now. we need to accelerate it and i'm with mr. lowther all the way. if we are saying we are going to charge a fee for service, then all that money needs to be for that service. if not it's a classic bait and switch of the american people who are thinking they are paying for security when in fact they're not. they are paying to balance the budget of the united states government. some of it is being used for security but the majority of it is not and that's not right so i'll be working with mr. lahood and maybe other members of the subcommittee to see what we can do about it. but the good news is by 2027 it's supposed to end unless

it's reauthorized, and i'll tell you this -- i'm not reauthorizing it and i don't think any member of the subcommittee will probably reauthorize it, either. so by 2027 at least you'll get it back but i'm not so sure that we are the best vehicle for implementing all these security measures. i think these airports need to start picking up part of the load, too. so with that i'm going to yield the rest of my time back and i recognize the gentleman from michigan, mr. thanedar. >> thank you mr. chair. mr. administrator, earlier this week ranking member thompson reintroduced his bill, the right for the tsa workforce act of 2024 point which would codify better pay, collective- bargaining rights and third- party adverse appeal rights by applying title v of the u.s. code to tsa in statute. previous versions of this bill passed the house in the 116th and 117th congress. this year,

for the first time, we introduced a bill with an equal number of republican and democratic original cosponsors. i'm happy to be one of the cosponsors, so we are representing a bipartisan coalition of members who agree that this is the sensible thing to do for tsa. mr. administrator, do you agree that we should not backtrack on the advancements we have collectively made for the tsa workforce and should instead codify them in statute to assure their permanence? >> sir, we absolutely should never backtrack on the commitments we made. you would lose the workforce in an instant in doing that and it would be very hard to recover. the bill as written would codify many of the things that we are already doing, which provides that guarantee. for me, when i look at the pay compensation plan that we just put in place, one of the most

important things is to make sure that states permanently linked to the general schedule pay rates so we don't find ourselves in a position of trying to get back to that after a couple of years of decline so we strongly support that legislation. >> thank you. last year ranking member thompson also introduced the fund the tsa act which would provide funding to address many of the challenges facing tsa. the bill would raise passenger security fee by two dollars per one-way ticket and end the diversion of ceo away from tsa to the general treasury, and index these two inflation going forward. doing so would provide sufficient funding for salary increases and expand labor rights for tsa workers. additional computer tomography machines and critical airport law enforcement and canine programs -- although no one

likes increased fee on their airline ticket, it is critical that we right size the tsa budget and make sure you have the resources you need to carry out your mission. mr. administrator, you have said before that you believe the fund the tsa act would be helpful to your agency, which i appreciate. did you have any conversation about the possibility of including an increase in passenger security fees as part of the budget request? >> sir, i think if you look at when the 9/11 fee was established at its current five dollar and 60 sent level, there was nothing in there that's just that figure for inflation. so if you just simply straight- line adjusted for inflation it would not be $7.50, so roughly the two dollars that was mentioned. so i agree that we baselining it where it needs to be, and that generates about $1.5 billion in additional revenue. read baseline where it is but importantly to put an escalator in that legislation so we don't

get behind by 4% or 5% each and every year. >> thank you, do you believe tsa's top line budget number needs to increase to get the agency all the funding it really needs? >> yes sir, and i think that's evidenced in the reductions you see in our budget, things that we want to invest in that we have to reduce. >> thank you, and i yield back. >> gentleman yields back. i know recognize the gentleman from new york, mr. kennedy. >> thank you chairman. administrator pekoske, i just want to go back to where we left off the conversation. a few minutes back. i want to talk about the security in the airports and the passenger experience, because i think they go hand in hand, and not just for the traveling public but also for the workforce. and again, i believe there are times that the workforce is overburdened by large waves of the traveling public. it's not good for anybody. what may we be able to do,

whether it's a new guidance or requirement within tsa and how the departments are managed on the front lines or is it a need for more investment of resources to get more staff recruitment, retirement, et cetera, so that we can attend to these waves and the different times that they're coming. you are at jfk or laguardia on a friday night, you're going to have a different experience than if you're there on a tuesday afternoon. that's just new york city. same for o'hair or reagan or orlando or buffalo niagara international. take your pick, as you know. so what is it that we may be able to do to address those issues and make the experience for moving people through the

process more efficient and effective? >> thanks for your question, sir. i would highlight your last point first is providing more flexibility in staffing. because what ends up happening is if passenger volumes increase higher than what was originally rejected in the budget, and fiscal 25 is a good example of that, we project in the budget that passenger volumes will increase 4.5%. they're at 8.5% already so what happens is that burden falls on the screen workforce, it falls on the vetting workforce that we have it does all the behind- the-scenes vetting of passengers. it falls under federal air marshal service as well so providing at least close to commensurate increases in staffing with passenger volume growth and we don't need to be exactly the same because technology inefficiency allows us to be a little bit less than that but not by half. the other thing that i think is really important, and i'd be happy to have a discussion with you more in-depth about this is we are putting together what we call a customer experience roadmap because i believe and

i'm sure the officers believe as well, if we do a better job at improving the customer passenger experience, those passengers will reflect that back to the officers and i want to make sure that we focus on the individuals in our system that we have a concern about and that's the whole premise behind the pre-check program is we have a certain set of passengers that we turn trusted travelers. we can give them a lighter level of screening, as a result they move faster, they wait 10 minutes generally or less all the time. if we can either do a couple things, increase that pre-check population, that would benefit us, it would benefit the travelers and then increase things that we look at with respect for the customer experience, we're doing a lot of work with the u.s. travel association right now on that very topic and their goal, and they stood up a commission for seamless and secure travel in the united states and i think you'll see out of the commission results report some very good recommendations for all of us to consider. >> that's helpful. does there need to be a

commissioned study across the nation to the various ports of call to address that issue as well? >> there have been a lot of efforts by the executive branch to look at customer experience writ large for taxpayers and for visitors to our country when they receive any federal service whatsoever, and each agency has some metrics to achieve in that regard. for us one of the metrics is can we be more consistent in our weight time experience for passengers, and we do have weight time standards that we want to make sure that we don't sacrifice security effectiveness for efficiency and that goes kind of back to the staffing and the technology issue i talked about before. the other thing that the chairman raised is that we do have a program for airports. if they want to purchase the technology themselves they can purchase off of what we call a capability acceptance list and

many airports have done that already at laguardia has done it, jfk is going to be doing it, denver has done it and this allows them to kind of get ahead of the curve when they open up a brand-new checkpoint, a lot of investment in airports around the country now. they don't want to open up a new checkpoints. i wouldn't, either, and put old technology in that checkpoint. they want to put the latest technology in place and this program gives them that avenue to do it. sometimes it's up to $50 million or $60 million worth of investment on the part of the airport. >> thank you. >> thank you gentleman from new york. i think the witness for his valuable testimony and the members for their questions. the members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the witnesses and we would ask the witness to respond to these in writing. pursuant to committee rule seven d, the hearing record will be open for 10 days. without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.

>> thursday, fdic chair martin gruenberg, federal vice chair michael barber and comptroller of the currency michael suda testify about financial oversight. a recent independent investigation found continued sexual harassment and

discrimination at the fdic. watch live before the senate banking committee beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on cpn -- c-span three, c-span now, our free mobile video app or online at c- span.org. >> now they've wrecked their country so they want to come here and collect our welfare instead. so no asylum cases. >> most people come here to make a better life, if not for them, for their kids. my italian grandparents never spoke english. i never had a conversation with them and yet they made america great. >> this friday, author ann coulter and columnist saw rabbi murray delete recent magazine's nick lesbian the young turks for euchre over the question should the u.s. shut its borders. the debate is moderated by barry weiss. watch it friday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span and online at c-span.org. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are feared and did by these television companies and more