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>> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress, from the house and senate floors, two congressional hearings, party greetings, and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided, with no commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. c-span. your unfiltered view of government. >> joining us now is lawyer and historian talmage boston , author of how the best did it: leadership lessons from our top presidents.

>> that was the purpose of the book. the target audience is anyone that aspires to be a leader or if you're already a leader, a better leader. these are lessons from history that can be applied by anyone in any field, whether you're running a law firm, a media studio, whatever it may be, these lessons are timeless and apply across the board. >> and you are a lawyer by trade. you have written now -- this is your fifth book. your earlier books were focused on baseball. how did you get into writing presidential history? >> my first two books were baseball history books. when i finished the second one, i realized i had written everything about baseball i really cared about. my last two books have been presidential history. i've been a fan of presidential history since i was seven years old. my mother got me presidential trading cards and i memorized who the presidents were in order . when were they born, when did they die, what were the great

things they did. abraham lincoln, the great hero -- abraham lincoln, my great hero. i've been a student of presidential history my whole life, particularly over the last 10 years, that has been pretty much my sole focus in terms of what i have written about and read. >> and the book looks at eight different presidents. how did you pick those eight? >> well, my choice for my eight richest presidents comes largely from the c-span presidential ranking poll. the last two poles, 2017 and 2080 -- 2021, the they have been the same britt lincoln, one, fdr, three, eisenhower, five, truman, six, jefferson, seven, kennedy eight, reagan, nine. i think truman is overrated. i think reagan is underrated.

truman was ineffective in dealing with mccarthyism. he gets credit for bringing a quick end to world war ii. i think that was a no-brainer. there was no way we weren't going to drop those bombs. i think the best thing that ever happened to harry truman was when there was a pulitzer biography of him. that endeared him to many. i'm very satisfied with my choice of the eight. as i've mentioned, it is closely tied to the c-span pole. >> the c-span historian survey, the most recent one done in 2021, it is done every time there is a change in administration, so it was done again in 2021, 2017, 2009, and 2020. the presidency mentioned that you talk about in your book largely stay in the same position. why are those presidents often so widely regarded?

>> i think because in large part because throughout their presidency, they abided by leadership traits that cause them to be successful. for the most part, in our respects, especially with people like washington and lincoln who are one and two, consummate integrity, credibility, all of these presidents were extremely effective communicators. there is a wonderful historical record of each of them, so it is readily accessible as to how they went about their lives and presidencies to make them so worthy of emulation and study. these things don't change over time. >> we are talking with talmage boston about his book, how the best did it: leadership lessons from our top presidents. we are going to be taking your calls. you can go ahead and start calling in now. republicans, 202-478-8000 one. independence, 202748 8002.

from your book, it talks about -- one of the chapters you just mentioned, abraham lincoln, how to be the most successful and esteemed leader imaginable, like abraham lincoln. let's look at this quotfrom your book. before the start of his first term in march 18th, 1861, lincoln famously chose a team of rivals for his cabinet, some of whom had opposed him at the republican convention in 1860. this unique assemblage of talent was immortalized by doris kearns goodwin, and her award-winning book with that title. despite being initially disrespected by new york senator william seward, whom he chose as his secretary of state, ohio governor salmon chase, and former u.s. attorney general edwin stanton, his secretary of war, lincoln

refused to take their slights personally, and chose them to serve in his cabinet, believing he would need their skills to leave the country during his presidency, which he knew from the start would be tempestuous. he explained his decision. quote, these were the strongest men, and i had no right to deprive the country of their services. what happened? >> what happened? it didn't take for them to realize that abraham lincoln , who they discredited before they served under him -- it didn't take long for them to realize, he is the smartest guy in the room. he is heads and shoulders above all of us, not in terms of his brilliance, intelligence, emotional intelligence. how he interacted with them, mutual respect, earned their respect with one exception. salmon chase, who could never

get beyond his own ego and was consistently undermining lincoln and considered running against him for the 1864 nomination. he ultimately dropped out. to show lincoln's magnanimity, when roger tony went off for supreme court justice, lincoln named salmon chase as u.s. supreme court justice. he never took the bait. the way he acted toward his cabinet was matched by the way he treated the union generals. george mcclellan was in charge of the war.

it didn't take long to realize he's not real good at work because he didn't want to engage in battles. lincoln knew that if they were going to win the war, it was going to have to be a hard war. lincoln goes to the library of congress, it's about military history and strategy, implements a working plan for the balance of the war, pics ulysses s grant, and ultimately, even though he had never been to west point, he had less than one year of formal schooling, he devises a plan that wins the war. >> and overall, the chapter is how to be the most successful and esteemed leader imaginable. obviously, that worked well for lincoln, but ty that together. how exactly did that -- how does history remember that? >> my book contains a total of 24 leadership traits across these eight presidents. an average of three per president. i can make the argument that lincoln embodied all 24 traits. he is heads and shoulders above the other presidents. there's a great quote early in my chapter from tolstoy who says that lincoln is head and shoulders over every leader in world history. he was a strategist. he knew how to handle people. he was unbelievably eloquent. he had the famous words, better angels of our nature. this talent as an orator, as a strategist, as an organizer to organize the war effort, as the highest moralist who could ultimately bring about the end

of slavery, and be prepared to bring the country back together when unfortunately, he was assassinated. these were america's most difficult years in history. 750,000 people were killed. millions were wounded. many amputees. to be a leader in that kind of situation is unique in american history and at every juncture, lincoln found a way to move it forward and bring about the desired results. >> that is according to the c- span presidential historian survey, every year that we have done it, yes, lincoln has come in at number one, so head and shoulders across the board. let's hear from her audience. we will hear first from clarence, calling from miami, florida, on the independent line. good morning, clarence. >> hi. good morning. i wanted to ask mr. boston about eisenhower, since he is one of the presidents in your