coming, more and more often. the army's official appreciation is voiced by lieutenant general gray and somerville, excepting for our troops to 10,000 movie, presented by the motion picture industry, for overseas exhibition. general somerville. >> recently, i visited australia , india, china, and africa, and out of my personal observation, i know what these motion pictures mean to the main overseas. while it be difficult to place a value on these programs, the motion picture industry is providing this. the morale of our troops is high. the laughter, music, and general entertainment which comes out of a single, small package like this one have helped to build that morale.

if you ever miss any of c- span's coverage, find it anytime, online, at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, debates of other events, future markers that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights, these points of was debated in washington. of was debated in scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's point of interest. >> i want to extend a special thank you to our partners at the u.s. army command and staff college for their long ownership with the library and collaboration in this great series we have going, hollywood versus history which we continue tonight. we have had a terrific time examining the

historical accuracy of military movies and we will continue through the end of the year so we hope you come back and tell your friends to come back as well. there are a number of representatives from the college and the number of staff and board members here as well. please stand if you are from the foundation board so we can recognize you and thank you for your support of this great series. thank you so much. thank you. >> [ applause ] >> once again we extend our gratitude to the late jerry rosenblum in whose memory we are presenting the program and the hollywood versus history series. it is jerry rosenblum who has made this possible by a generous gift from his estate. tonight with military historian brian steed of the army command and general staff college we have a special installment of the series. it is a little broader in scope looking at hollywood filmmaking during world war ii and its role in shaping the nation my

ski response to and in support of the world. brian will take a particularly close look at the best years of our lives, a film released a year after the war that successfully departed from the flag-waving norm. earned eight academy awards including oscar for best picture. brian steed is an associate professor of military history at the command and general staff college where he taught since 2013 and was honored as military educator of the year in 2018. he served as an armor officer in middle east for an area officer before he retired as lieutenant colonel. it was brian who actually helped us launch the hollywood versus history series in january when he explored the 1975 swashbuckling film the men who would be king. and this is his 10th time he has spoken at the library starting back in 2014, so he is

one of our stars here at the library. please join me in welcoming brian steed back to the library. >> [ applause ] >> okay, so thank you and welcome. i love coming here. i love talking about movies. i am a movie fan not just as a thing to do for fun, but as art. we have talked about different aspects of film. it is going to be different. as it was already said, i will not focus on one movie but we will spend most of our time talking about the best years of our lives . i will use a lot of superlatives tonight. i think they are all warranted. we might take umbrage with a few but that's okay because i make you think why it isn't the best or greatest or whatever, so i am okay with you to argue that. okay, we will talk about world war ii and movies.

so, why this film? well, at the beginning of last school year, back around september, october, one of my students made a comment in almost whimsical or wistful way of, oh, back in world war ii, the entire nation was united. wouldn't it be nice if the entire nation was united today? he said it in such a way, it was like it was automatic. like everybody organically wanted to support the war effort. at that time, i told him, well, it wasn't exactly organic. a lot of that unity was manufactured and created both by the government and by hollywood. it is important to recognize that a lot of the country was not necessarily -- especially before pearl harbor -- was not in support of world war ii or what was happening that we now know was world war

ii and even after the japanese bombed pearl harbor, a lot of americans were not in support of the europe first strategy because the germans didn't bomb us, so why are we focusing effort on europe? hollywood helped shape this and it helped shape how we perceive world war ii, even until today. so the other part i want to bring up, and this is one of those areas you could argue. when i am talking about film, by the way, i am not counting silent film. that does not count . i know some would argue that point. i'm talking about synchronized sound and motion picture. that film. this is the first war, world war ii, the first global war or multiregional war fought in the age of film. that is something to think about. in our world today -- i want to

take you back to imagine because i don't think even with all of the non-brown hair icy out there, i don't think anybody in this group was born in an era there wasn't a talky, okay? everyone has lived a life motion picture was a thing. i want you to go back to where motion picture wasn't a thing. you didn't see moving images and when you did, when you went to them, you only went one place. like in today's world, you can watch movies on the television screen. you can watch movies on your phone. or if you don't want to watch a movie, you can play video games. we will talk about that competition. in today's world there are so many ways to get media, but back in world war ii, there was kind of one and it was the movie theater, or the sinema, if you want to be fancy about it . okay, so if we go back, the first synchronized sound and

motion picture is the jazz singer. 1927. we will talk about academy awards a couple of times tonight. the academy awards again in 1927 in the first best picture winner is a silent picture winner, wings. the next year, the first sound, synchronized sound motion picture gets best picture and that is the broadway melody. and what's interesting is the first several years of the academy awards it was not based off calendar year, so you would get this 1928, 1929 stuff in the early academy awards because it wasn't a calendar year system and i can't recall what year we went to it. i want to say early '30s but anyway, eventually they went to the system we have now where the academy awards are based off release date in the calendar year as opposed to how it was originally. okay, so when we think of big

blockbuster movies, a lot of us might think about avengers endgame. one of the highest grossing films in american history and when you look at this, this is not gross, this is who saw it. ticket sales -- these are people sitting in seats, okay? ticket sales are actually recorded not for the united states. it is recorded for united states and canada so population numbers are also population numbers in canada oh. as popular as avengers endgame was, only a quarter of the population saw that movie. compare that to the next or previous blockbuster before that , titanic, and 44% of america and canada. when i say america, think north america in this case. let's go to the age of the early talkies, right? snow white and the seven dwarfs.

72% of america went and saw that movie. now anybody want to guess what the biggest all-time ticket selling movie is? >> [ inaudible ] >> yes, gone with the wind. 137% of america went and saw that movie. >> [ laughter ] >> when we talk about blockbusters, these don't even compare but of course in the gone with the wind days, you had one option, the theater or the radio. i guess two options but if you want to see someone moving, it is one option. today, you have a lot. movies are important. now i would argue one of the greatest and most influential film directors and history is a german film director. he makes two great films. most of you, even if you haven't seen it, you have seen it and i will show you a couple of clips. the 1934 nazi movie and the

summer olympic games. she is so influential because she shapes how the world imagines film to be, right? almost every director will copy her, okay? so when we watch triumph of the will, you will have all seen these images. some of these images look a whole lot like the award seen in the original star wars movie, when luke and han and chewbacca . right? it is taken from there. you will see the march of the hyenas from the lion king as hitler -- or scar i think it was standing right on top of him with the hyenas. that is what is happening in this film. when frank capra who makes the why we fight series to teach american soldiers why we fight for world war ii, when he makes

-- when he starts the production of that first film, he watches triumph of the will for the first time in 1942 and he comes out of that viewing and says the nazis will win this war because of the influence of this movie on shaping public will and how he knew society would be shaped. he knew this is what he had to compete against, okay? when we talk about olympia, not nearly as important as shaping the war effort but it is a really important movie for those of you who are sports fans to watch. i'm a huge track and field fan so right now i am in heaven because we just had the track and field championships. cinematic sports coverage is pioneered by lenny riefenstahl. this is the hundred meter. and it's funny, riefenstahl was

accused of being a nazi but she never was a nazi or anything else. when you watch this movie, her portrayal of jesse owens is quite a positive one. he breaks the world record, by the way, in the semi final, not the final. but anyway, hollywood is shaping -- or movies are shaping how people think and see the world. now fdr will say the same thing. fdr here, this is a speech he has filmed and presented. at the motion picture -- the academy -- wait. the academy of motion picture of arts and sciences, they love film. he has this little film of himself and it is shown in the 1941 academy awards. >> we have seen the motion picture become famous in all of the world. we have seen it reflect our civilization

throughout the rest of the world. the aims and aspirations, the ideals of a free people and of freedom itself. the motion picture industry has utilized its vast resources, resources of talent and a sincere effort to help the people of the hemisphere who come to know each other. dictators, those who enforce the totalitarian form of government , think it is a dangerous thing for their unfortunate people to know that in the power of democracy, officers of government are the servants and never the masters of the people. >> so this is expressing the power hollywood about nine months before pearl harbor. but it's a little more than a year after the war has begun in europe. so he's addressing an audience

that is dealing with the war and is being torn about how to present the war to the american people. okay? the whole industry goes to war. disney goes to war. i wish i could show commando dock. i love it. it is fascinating but of all of the disney characters that go to war, donald those most often and the only other one who goes is pluto. okay? he's a dog, right? like a legitimate dog, not like a goofy dog about a dog dog. but donald those and he never joined the navy, which i think is misrepresenting himself, right? >> [ laughter ] >> i always thought he was a sailor but he joined the air force and the army and in this one, he becomes a special forces guy. a pretty comedic one. disney produces victory through error power. there is a book entitled

victory through airpower. disney himself once to a present this theory about how airpower can win the war faster. roosevelt doesn't watch this movie until churchill demands he does and he makes roosevelt promise and roosevelt promises -- or demands to get his own set of the films brought to him and he watches it and supposedly, at least according to the disney archivists, it is only after roosevelt watches victory through air power he commits to the bomber offensive against the nazis in germany so it is a quite influential movie . the entire thing is distributed by disney. it is actually a commercial flop. okay? why we fight, disney did all of the animation for that series. and of course, they do the shorts that appear in between and before and after so many movies in theaters.

a great series is available on netflix. i am not doing this as a promotion. i do not get a kickback from netflix but it is a three-part series and it talks about five american film directors, all academy award winners, who go. for those who know, the man who would be king that i talked about last time i was here is directed by john houston, one of those five who came back. we will talk about william wilder, another important figure on this. but a lot of hollywood actors, significant ones, also go and join the war effort in a significant and serious way, not just like, hey, i am doing this as a liaison to the military, but actually fighting, right? and so, in the five came back, stephen spielberg, a producer

of the series and a guy who comments throughout it, makes this comment. and i think this is something that was true, that hollywood recognize they needed to show that. so i want to get into why. let's talk about william wyler, our director of the show . he was actually born willie wyler. it was not made william until he comes to hardwood and they made him william. i guess willie was too casual for hollywood, which is kind of funny. anyway, willie wyler is a frenchman from a rural village called me lose and he is jewish. he is sent to hollywood to work for his uncle, who is in the movie industry in the '20s. william will become a director. my second superlative of the evening, i think, is i think he

is hollywood's greatest director. he's nominated for 12 best director academy awards. he wins three. every -- he is the only director in academy award history that every movie he wins for best director also wins for best picture, so he's not just a great director. he also directs great movies, okay? which is something that makes him important. the other thing he is known for and it is said two different ways, he's known as 40 take willie and 90 take willie. i want to stick with 40 take willie. he would do take after take after take. he was a very, very, very demanding director and from that demand, he produced the most number of academy award-winning rs and actresses in hollywood's history

. he has more than any other director that would get nominated and more than the next two directors who would win. not only is he a great director, he directs great films and directs great performances. i would also throw out that i think the greatest movie ever made is 1959 's been her. and this is his joke, it took a jew to make a really good movie about jesus christ. and i happen to think it is a great movie about jesus christ i am with him all the way that one, okay? my list of his favorites, if you haven't seen it, i would highly recommend you go out and see the big country. not one of his academy award nominees but fantastic film. great western. okay, so misses miniver and the

best years of our lives are bookends of the world war ii experience. mrs. miniver is the last he directs before he goes off to war. best years of our lives is the first when he comes back from war. it's great if you can watch them in close proximity to each other because you will get a sense of how his view of war changes between those two because william wyler goes to war . he will film the memphis belle. my wife and i had an opportunity two weeks ago, i think, at the air force museum in dayton, ohio. highly recommended. there they have the memphis belle. he jampacked that thing with cameras and flew on bombing missions with that aircraft. he loses his hearing flying in a b 24 i think it is during the

war during similar filming because it is a larger aircraft and he didn't have the right hearing protection and he loses his hearing, so he personally suffers as a result of his wartime service. and so, by the way, the red fund are the people who win. the orange font are those nominated. this was a very successful movie and what we get from mrs. miniver is this sense of what the war -- the toll it takes. he starts making this movie before pearl harbor and he wants the american people to support the british and their war effort so we are not at war yet but he wants america to commit to the war and support the british, so he shows mrs. miniver, a regular tivoli speaking regular housewife dealing with the challenges of the war, okay? i will give you some spoilers. this is an 80-year-old movie so at this point i don't feel bad

but their house will get bombed and pretty much destroyed in the blitz, okay? and the way their family deals with it, her husband will take their boat to help dunkirk. she will encounter the only german in the movie, a pilot that gets shot down and makes his way into her home and she has to hold him off at gunpoint. it is fascinating that when the producer or really the guys at the studio saw the daily, they were concerned and they called william wyler in and they said hey, willi, we are not at war with the german people and willi's response was, look, if i had 100 germans in the movie, i would show good germans but i've got one and that will be one of the monsters. he really wanted to show him as this i want to burn the world kind of thing. when you watch the movie, you

get a sense this is a creepy german guy, right? a true believer in the nazi ideology and willi wanted it that way . now what's fascinating is after pearl harbor the studio didn't complain anymore so it was kind of interesting. okay, so here is the clip. i will show you mrs. miniver. this comes at the very end. the village has been bombed. it is the preacher in the protestant church giving a sermon. i want you to hear in that preacher william wyler . he is the preacher and he is talking to you about what this war is about. >> the homes of many of us have been destroyed and the lives of young and old have been taken. there is scarcely a household that hasn't been struck to the heart. and why? i shall tell you why. because this is not only a war of soldiers in uniform. it is a war of the people. of all of the people and it must

be fought not only on the battlefield, but in the cities and in the villages, in the factories and on the farms, in the home and in the heart of every man, woman, and child who loves freedom. this is the people's war. it is our war. we are the fighters. fight it, then. fight it with all that is in us, and may god defend the right . >> this is the people's war, like he was saying in our homes, in our factories, you could have added in there in the theaters because that is what william wyler -- that is how he is fighting this war, in the movie theater. this is the people's war. that is how he goes off to war. by the way, he will be filming the memphis belle on omission as

his wife receives his best director academy award on his behalf. okay? so he finds out in a western union telegram that he won the academy award. so it's the people's war. now we go to this film because this movie is about what war does to the people, okay? mrs. miniver , the people's war, now what does ward do to people? i have up here the birthdays of each of the actors and actresses. they don't exactly match up right but it is all right. this is hollywood, right? and it is interesting. the film is in black and white. it was believed in the 1940s that color was for fantasy, for comedy, for animation.

it wasn't for serious movies. serious movies were black and white films. okay, so what are some facts? 38% of america went and saw this movie, okay? it was a pretty popular movie. the best selling movie other than one with the wind until 1950, okay? it was not until the 1950s there was a more popular movie than this one. this is ranked number two through the entire decade of the 1940s. okay? it has its distinction of winning. it says seven academy awards, plus an honorary award. we will talk about harold russell a bit, but harold russell plays homer in the film. he is a navy sailor who has lost both of his arms. harold russell actually did lose both of his arms but it was in a training event where he was doing the training and

hollywood -- he was nominated for best supporting actor, but the academy didn't think he would win it, so they gave him an honorary award, and then he won best supporting actor award as well. becoming the only person in academy history to win two oscars for the same role, so if you have that on trivial pursuit or something, that is the swer. it's harold russell. okay, so this is set in boone city. they don't tell you what state. it is supposedly patterned off cincinnati, ohio but it's filmed in california. it's fascinating that william wyler wanted a very normal look to the film so he gave his cast money and told them to buy their costumes off the rack. okay? so teresa right, myrna loy,

they bought regular clothes, okay? you do not see them dolled up in hollywood costumes. this is all very regular and you get that feel when you watch the film. it's interesting, virginia mail wanted to be in this role so badly and william wyler did not want her to be in it, that she politics over his head and agreed she would be willing to film both this movie and the secret life of walter mitty simultaneously. often times she was running from one set to the other set to be able to film on the same day, so it was kind of interesting. the title doesn't show up in the dialogue. virginia mail gets really, really close to it in one scen and i will talk about the importance of the b-17 as a metaphor in this film because you have to remember, 's a big part and he uses the b-17

as a way to instruct everything throughout. one of the ways he does this, the three war veterans never having met before duringthe war meet at an airport and fly home to boone city on a b-17, okay? they can't get a decent flight for weeks but there is a b-17 making hops across america and they are able to get a ride on one of those and get a ride to boone city. to each get off the aircraft and each reunite with their family one by one by one. each of these main characters has a significant problem. okay? this -- one of the things i love about this movie, it is artistic. his poetry in it. william wyler shows when you look at it initially only one of these guys is broken, homer. he obviously does not have hands. he's got hooks. everyone sees them. everyone recoils at him.

everyone does. okay? it is very memorable but all three of these men are broken. and what we will see by the end of the film is that the one that is most obviously broken is the one that is actually leased broken. and we will talk a little bit more about the ironies that william wyler sets up throughout the film as he goes on. obviously homer has a r injury. al struggles with family integration. he's got his wife and an adult daughter, a nearly adult son and he has been away from them for like three plus years and they are struggling to reintegrate. then fred comes back and has all sorts of issues with ptsd. they all sort of resolve their issues. for me, this movie is a little personal. i will get a little personal here. i don't know my extended family will watch this so i think i am okay but this movie reminds me of my family.

my grandfather and two of his brothers went to fight in world war ii. they left from a dinkytown, great falls, montana. they never would have been further than 50 miles from that city in their whole life but they go off and one flies b-17 during the war and the others in the america divisional flights throughout the southern pacific theater with mcarthur. the other guy ends up being in north africa, in italy, right? they end up seeing the world, these three brothers. when they come back, none of them lost their arms so it is not quite like the film but they all have problems with integration and some deal with self-medication issues as they try to deal with ptsd in a society that is not yet ready to understand ptsd. it's understanding the connection

for me. so, who are they? we've got homer parrish, u.s. navy, petty officer second class. he served in maintenance on an aircraft carrier and before the war he was a high school sports star. al stephenson, he ends up in the war and we know he served at least 2 1/2 years overseas. he is on from his family for longer than three years. he is a sergeant first class so when you think of rank, lowest rank, middle rank, highest rank. once again, you get to the ironies. what did al do for the war? he was a banker. he worked in the bank.

respectable, you know, white- collar job. then we thought fred derry, who served in the eighth air force, a captain who served two and half years overseas. what did he do before the war? he was a soda jerk, the lowest social position. his parents are kind of nobody's. his dad comes off like a ne'er- do-well. they live in a shack. of course, this is right before the war so we don't know their back story on why they are in these destitute situations but he is financially destitute, or his family is. his family is pretty well-off and his family loves and adores him but he is the one physically broke. he's the one who self medicate. he is the dude that is the most emotionally shattered as a result of the war and we will watch that one by one. this is homer coming home.

>> it's homer! mama, mama, daddy, it's homer! >> that is his happy sister. now watch how he greets mom and dad. big hugs. everyone is happy. this is the girl next door. navy as you're trained. that kid how to use ♪♪ stroke her hair so >> you've got to hand it to th navy . bay shore trained those kids how to use those hooks. >> couldn't put his arms around his girl. >> there feeling bad for homer

and his integration problems. by the way, you may have recognized teresa wright -- actually, that is not teresa wright. that is the actress but i cannot remember her. >> [ inaudible ] >> anyway, thank you. keeps it all in the family i guess in a way. okay, so here is al as he goes home and this is him talking to his son. >> this is a samurai sword. >> thanks very much, dad. >> here is a flag i found on a dead man's sword. >> yes, the japanese attach a lot of importance to the family relationship. so you are at hiroshima, weren't you, dad? did you notice any of the

effects of radioactivity on the people who survived the blast? >> no, i didn't. should i have? >> aren't you going to take the souvenirs, father? >> yes. goodnight. see you in the morning. >> okay, so al comes back the conquering hero and his son thanks him for these things. okay. it's kind of -- it's fascinating. okay? now here is fred and what he is going through. we will see two clips of this, so -- >> get out of that plane! ready? >> i'm going with you guys. >> fred, wake up. wake up. >> get out! get out!

>> fred, wake up! it's all right, fred. go back to sleep. go back to sleep. back to sleep. >> so, willi shows us what fred is going through in that sequence. here is how his wife responds to -- like, we don't see him have that experience with his wife but here is how his wife reacts . >> fred. >> yeah? >> are you really all right? >> of course i'm all right. why? >> i mean, in your mind. >> my mind? you think i've gone goofy? >> i've been wondering. how is -- >> how did you hear about him?

>> you shout sometimes in your sleep. you kept saying that of. >> he is a friend of mine. >> can you get these things out of your system? >> sure. >> maybe that is what is holding you back. the war is over and you are still thinking about it. s.n.a.p. out of it. >> okay, honey . i will do that. >> okay, we have got to talk about some of this in a bit. this is -- i will show a sequence from the beginning and the end of the film. these are the three of them riding in the b-17 coming into boone city and i want you to pay attention to what they are talking about and then we will show at the end what -- how fred is dealing with and what he is going through. okay, so they're in the bombardier position, which is important. that is fred's position. >> holy smokes. >> i never knew there were so

many planes. >> boy, oh, boy. what we could get done with all of that. >> yeah, i bet. >> some of them look brand-new. all good for now. >> that is william wyler's message. young men go off to war. some of them brand-new from the factory right to the scrapheap. that is what war does to people. it takes brand-new planes and junks them, right? and here we have fred in the end . he has climbed up into those junkyard planes in his old bombardier position and william wyler is showing us no engines, no propulsion. it cannot do any of the things it was made to do, just like fred. okay? and there is fred trying to figure out what on earth to do

in his old position where he was actually a hero, multi-time decorated for what he accomplished during the war. this is the best shot of the film. the camera coming in over the shoulder. awesome. and as fred is contemplating how to deal with his life, we will see a guy through the bombardier window looking up at him yelling at him. right there is the image. that guy is yelling at him and fred is like, oh, i've got to come out and deal with this guy. the sound will come back in a moment and we will hear this conversation. pay attention because this is wyler 's final point about the meaning of the war and the meaning of fred's wife.

>> i used to work in one of those. >> remind you of old memories? >> maybe trying to get something out of my system. >> you can take these crates and break them out. this is no job. we are using this for building prefabricated houses. >> okay, remember the beginning? straight from the factory, right to the junk heap. what did wyler tell us in the end? this isn't junk. this is what you build a civilization on. all of the men who fought in the war and come back broken, just because they are a broken part of a b-17 does not make them junk. why is this movie -- i think this is thst courageous movie ever made, so this is my other superlative of the film. why? most of these movies are about the period they are made. i'm a big fan of science

fiction movies. i love them because like the little mosquito in the jurassic park movie, it gets capturedin amber and holds the dna so you can make dinosaurs later on and that kind of thing. movies do that. they capture a moment in time. what people were thinking, what llywood was thinking about the world and sci-fi does that better than anything but what is brilliant about this movie is the period in which it is made is the period that it is about. like, wyler is making this about the end of the war at the end of the war. so it's like this is one of the points why it's not useful to talk about how historically accurate it is because it is a genius discussion of the issues at the time they are made and these are issues that in most cases we don't discuss as a society other than in a film like this for decades. okay? there is a reas why so many world war ii vets self medicated

. okay? like i said, every main character is broken. one of the things that is fascinating is we only run into , in the whole movie, two other servicemembers. okay? one is a guy that al will help at the bank. he was a cb and al was like, i will give him alone even though he doesn't have collateral. l kind of gets in trouble but he sticks to his guns. like, this is what i'm going to do with my life to help build this country and help the men who fought. that is what he is going to do. the other guy is some sleazy dude who is hitting on fred's wife. we get both sides of the honorable dude and the kind of questionable cat here. but everybody else did not serve in the war. the other soda jerks, they stayed back. the other guys, they worked in factories because that was true

but america. as many people as we put in the military, we put four, five times more in factories. most of america serves the war effort by building things, not by fighting and the movie does address that. this idea of the arsenal of democracy. here are the courageous things it deals with. wartime disability, ptsd, reintegration anxiety, self- medication, social acceptance -- nobody understands these guys. these guys are like glue. the first time they meet is at this airport before they get on the b-17 or actually, they meet al getting on the b-17 and these guys are the best buddies ever because they have something in common that apparently no one else in boone city shares with them, right? they have difficulty getting society to understand them. and you've already seen this idea of this revisionist view.

the nuclear bomb whether it was a good thing or bad thing. just and dad's things, you get a brief hint of his son sort of, you know, thinking the nuclear bomb is a little sketchy. and there is another guy at the soda fountain he talks about how the guys who fought were the real suckers in the war and that we were actually just fighting for corporate interest or whatever else. obviously that has never been said before or since. but anyway, just an interesting aspect of the film. i would just offer you, one, if you haven't watched this movie in a long time, you ought to see it. get it again. watch it again. it is really, really worth your time. it is a long movie, okay, but it is a great movie and it gets at some really, really profound points and gives you a sense of america in a period of time that i think is one of the most

authentic films ever made and it deserves the credit that it has. i think i am ending with that. i will open it up for questions, but thank you for your attention. >> [ applause ] >> brian, thank you very much. anybody with questions, we have set up two microphones at the front of each aisle. if you would use those. those are particularly important for our viewing audience on c-span and on our library website, youtube site when we put the video up. thank you. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming again. my question is, we had four presidents -- maybe five. i'm not sure on carter. that came out of world war ii and i would like for you to really comment on reagan because he was in the film video or whatever you call it back then.

>> yeah. well, it is so fascinating, how much that generation shaped america, right? think of each of the presidents that followed, whether it's a guy like eisenhower, who obviously gets elected based off his wartime service and his significance. and each of the other presidents, up until ronald -- no, george h.w. bush is our last world war ii serving president. each of them -- it is a shaping event, even with reagan where he doesn't deploy. he is a significant player in the liaison with hollywood and, man, there is so much more i wanted to say on this topic. it's fascinating if you look at the movies hollywood produces in terms of top money earners,

academy award nominees, and how many of them are in some form or another about the war effort. gary cooper's famous movie sergeant york comes out in 1940 and you look at other movies that are quite significant, some of them are whimsical movies, broadway melody kind of movies, but they are often war movies and their way, right? and you've got, of course, all sorts of john wayne, you know, fighting films as well that are a little bit -- it's fascinating, how many hollywood actors felt that they had to explain why they didn't fight. john wayne goes into great lengths explaining why he didn't fight. you know, 41 and he's got a family. he's got all of these explanations, as if he had to do that and what is sort of sad, john ford treats him a little like garbage.

he didn't like -- there was one story about john wayne getting cursed out by john ford for not saluting properly. like, why don't you salute like someone who has served? and he was like, okay. imagine john wayne getting called out like that. ford, if you are a millionaire with his story, is wounded at midway. he's filming at the battle of midway and sets his camera up in the perfect place, which is also the perfect place to get bombed so he does get injured. it's fascinating and it does shake -- shape our society and how presidents look at international relations for a while. i would argue to a degree it is still shaped by world war ii. okay, so it's unfair. i cannot do this exercise with you guys because you are all painted now but i will do an exercise where i tell people to close their eyes and i will say a word and there will be an image in your eyes and i want

you to capture that image and the word is war. what is the image that comes to mind? for most of our students at the command central staff college, even though it is 2022, their images are world war ii images. it's hitting the beach, saving private ryan, doing an airborne drop, something that comes out of world war ii . it is so much of our military, our government, and it is what we think of when we hear the word war. it's fascinating. i don't think we have ever gotten beyond that war yet. it's interesting. when you whimsically go back, quite often my students are like, okay, wouldn't it be great to go back to a world where everyone was united? like, yeah, then we killed 80 million people. i don't know if you want to go back to that world, right? there is a downside there but it's interesting, that is what shapes our mind. yes, go ahead. >> you had stated you thought

the best movie ever, ever made was ben-hur and i agree wholeheartedly. i think that movie was the most outstanding of all time and i would like to hear you elaborate if you could on specific scenes that you thought were dynamic. >> okay, well i think to this day it has the two best action- adventure scenes ever filmed, the chariot race scene and the naval battle. that naval battle scene is like -- okay, if you have watched this as many times as i have, you notice some of the catapults shoot straight up in the air and back down about if you just watch it, it is authentic for how naval combat was done. like we could show -- if we were teaching first century naval warfare to our students, you could watch that scene. it's a fantastic scene for that

and the chariot race scene is flat out the best action scene ever made until maybe top gun: maverick. i don't know. >> [ laughter ] >> it is all practical effects. no cgi here gets awesome. my favorite though, and i think i've got to say this, and the reason i love this as a movie about jesus, they never show jesus' face. they just show the influence of jesus on other people's faces and i love that aspect because i think as somebody who likes jesus, that his influence on others was more important than him and i thought william wyler does that better than any director ever, so those would be my three reasons. i'm sorry, sir. you had a question? >> a formula for the movies for world war ii, the last formula movie and it flopped that i recall was the green beret with

john wayne. they thought we would do a world war ii 40-year-old movie and get everyone fired up for vietnam and, wow, did that backfire. your thoughts? >> one, you are right, it did flop. i think like so many folks, people fail to recognize the environment in which they are operating. and i'm sure you're probably familiar john wayne wanted to make a movie that would motivate the american people, right? and so he was making a movie with an intent rather than just telling the story and letting the story make the message. like i think that is what wyler does brilliantly. mrs. miniver -- he's a little preacher. pardon the pun. he is a little preacher but in the best years of our lives he

lets the story make the message. one of the things i am challenged by with our students and they say that in terms of the 20 to 30 age range, a lot of them are not taught to be critical viewers so they will just watch a movie and let it wash over them without really, really thinking about what the movie means. each of these little elements about why the b-17s and why that aspect straight from the factory to the junkyard and those sorts of things and how significant that is for making a message, like, like really great film directors, nothing is wasted. everything has a purpose and everything is that way. the best directors, everything there is there for a reason. wyler does that beautifully in the best years of our lives. john wayne got too driven by the message and he didn't just let the story do it but he is

the duke. i don't know if i have grounds to criticize him but that would be my critique about the film. yes, sir? >> the thing that amazes me about the best years of our lives, i suspect makers of that movie supported world war ii but it still was an antiwar film. my question is how do you support a war but also make it antiwar, which any honest war sort of is? how do you support a war and say, look, this is what it does to people? how do you figure he put those two things together? >> one, that is a great question and it gets to some profound points. i would offer every authentic war movie is an anti-war movie. every movie made by somebody experiencing war is an anti-war movie. like, because nobody who has fought in a war wants there to be a world war, right?

and i think that is true of everybody, whether they are wearing a uniform or not. that's why when they show caricatures of military people and they show them as warmongers or the general wants to have war and that sort of thing, nobody who has actually seen war wants war, right? and wyler -- when you look at those directors, frank capra's it's a wonderful life, another box office flop, that is both jimmy stewart and frank capra working through their ptsd onset. okay? so when george bailey breaks down, that is jimmy stewart who flew -- i candor member how many missions he flew over germany. that's him breaking down from the war. okay? that is what makes that movie

so powerful and you could argue that is an anti-war movie in that sense but the bigger point is there are -- even though wars destroy people, some wars are worth fighting. and so, part of the point and i think william wyler wholeheartedly to the end of his days agreed that world war ii , though sacrifices, losing his hearing -- i mean, think about it. this is a movie director who no longer can hear dialogue, right? like, how do you do your profession? he, to the end of his life, would say that sacrifice is worth it for that war, right? that is the key thing. it isn't that, you know, wars are never good. sometimes that evil is necessary to achieve a greater good, right? and the challenge for citizens is to be involved and to recognize, okay, is there a greater good that is worth what we are doing? right? and in world war ii, if you

listen to wyler, wyler will come back. he is filming a movie called thunderbolt for the army about -- i cannot remember what the aircraft's name is but anyway it is an attack aircraft. >> [ inaudible ] >> thank you. he breaks into the middle of that to go to his home village and that is when he realizes that everybody, all of the jews there that he knew, his family , friends, and associates are all dead. right? this is a guy who recognizes, yes, i've lost my hearing, but i'm alive. right? it is worth what we do. it's fascinating that george stephenson , one of the other five directors, he will end up filming at -- i can't remember if it's auschwitz or -- anyway, one of the first camps that we liberate and his film crew is

the first in there and he realizes we are not making a movie now. we are recording evidence. and so he has his crews record evidence that will be used at the trials. right? george stevens was a comedy director. that was his strength, doing comedy. he will not direct another comedy again after the war because he just can't do it. completely changes his personality. as one could probably imagine it would. so, anyway. yes, sir? >> i think we have a question here too. we will make these the last two questions of the evening. >> when i saw the green berets, we thought it was a comedy. i watched at an airbase in vietnam and it was this little trailer and the screen was a bedsheet tacked up there. we were throwing beer cans at it

and watching the sun over the sea which was impossible because it rises over the south. >> [ laughter ] >> this movie, as i have given medical history talks, we deal with how certain countries have dealt with and particularly how the tobacco industry put a lot of money into putting smoking into the movies and this one is no exception. there is a complete gratuitous scene where they are all smoking. ignored and just shovee while there, while cigarette using his hooks. then, weiler takes a later scene where he is meeting his future father-in-law and he tries to do this and he is completely ignored. and just'shoved aside while they are trying to light it. so, a very interesting contrast to tobacco being introduced. >> thank you for sharing that, that is a good point. >> lawrence of arabia is a better movie. but my question is, when i was

coming, i was thinking about in a movies about black veterans coming back. any movies about the japanese soldiers coming back. any movies about rosie the riveter and what happens to her. and i can't come up with what -- there might be a spike lee movie and i have not seen it all. that may be about the black experience after the war, but i can't think of one. >> okay, that is a really good question, because -- no, that is a bad question because it stumped me. a good question would be when i had to answer, i guess. that is a great question and i am trying to think if -- because the only movies i would think, and i don't think they address it in there, the one i am thinking of now is ford versus ferrari and that is about a white guy, but it would be a movie like that where they are referencing that this guy did serve and you're not

disrespecting him. that kind of movie. but i can't think of one right now. >> [ inaudible ] >> yeah, i agree. i think that is a great point. i will spend some time on that one, thank you. tmax or, could you use the microphone? >> oh, yeah. you have got to use the microphone. they said i have to be ruthless about that. i will not talk to you unless you are at the microphone. >> clint eastwood, first flags of our fathers, and then i think the sequel is, "letters from iwo jima." that looks at the japanese perspective of the battle. >> that is correct, but not necessarily coming home. that is during fighting, you are right. the coming home part is i think -- but let's face it. there are not a lot of movies -- we do have a couple, literally coming home, is

coming out of vietnam. we do a couple of those films. but we don't do these for most wars. we will do them later. it is interesting, there are some other societies, you will get british and australian films that will be made about coming home from world war i, right? >> [ inaudible ] t >> yeah, italian filmmaking. >> one other quick thing. were you aware of, in the wall i street journal on friday, may 27, they had a nice article about this movie. >> no, i didn't know that. >> look it up. some gal in texas is writing a book, or already did. o they talk about that glory for me. they said it was one of the worst novels ever and they turned it into a perfect movie which is best years of our lives. >> okay, well, thank you. i do feel like i have to say, i am a huge fan of lawrence of arabia. but i want to say, one of my best cinematic years of my life was 2019 when there is some company that brings classic

movies to the big theater. i see heads nodding, i can never think of what the company is. but the same year in 2019, i got to watch on the big screen, ben hur in may and lawrence of arabia i think in september. it is absolutely awesome because i had never seen either one of them on the big screen. if you ever get that opportunity, absolutely take it up. >> thank you so much, please join me in thanking him one more time. >> if you are enjoying american history tv, then sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive weekly highlights of upcoming programs like lectures in history, american artifacts, the presidency, and more. sign up for the a htv newsletter today and be sure to watch american history tv every weekend or anytime online at c- span.org.