this is the last working week

scheduled for congress before their scheduled three week break. on the agenda is finalizing the idea and impeachment inquiry. a vote is expected later in the week. we want to hear your views on whether you support or oppose the house pursuing and impeachment inquiry. for those who support call us at (202) 748-8000, opposed (202) 748-8001 and if you are not sure that number is (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003 including your first name, city and state and on facebook facebook.com/cspan. welcome to today's washington journal before we get to your calls i will start with this article from cnn.com.

house speaker mike johnson is pursuing an impeachment inquiry that he says would cause irreparable damage. johnson blasted democrats into opening an inquiry on party lines. mike johnson was at the wall street journal council summit and he explained why he thought and impeachment query was important. [video clip] >> i'm a constitutional law attorney and i've served on impeachment defense teams twice. that was never in expertise i sought in law school. i was on record hundreds of times limiting the democrats politicizing impeachment in the

process and i think they did damage to our system. next to a declaration of war the impeachment power is the heaviest the house has. it is not something to be taken lightly. i think the house is incumbent on us to pursue this case. and to follow each street where it leads. we have a constitutional responsibility to do that. it is not a political decision, it is a legal one. i want to know where my colleagues are on that. the white house has begun to stonewall the investigation. when that is challenged in court the house needs to be at

its full constitutional authority. host: that was speaker mike johnson and we have a few facebookost, i oppose congress not doing their job. playing revenge is not their job. why do they have such a low approval rating? not difficult to figure out. meanwhile, ian sams was on msnbc over the weekend and he was pushing back on the impeachment inquiry. [video clip] >> given fox news anchors are expressing skepticism because we pushing the facts out every day. when they make allegations that turn out to be examples of the president being a good dad as

nefarious evidence of wrongdoing. we will point out the facts swiftly and we will come on tv and push hard on what's happening here. the house republicans have shown that they don't care about any issues that american people and trying to make their lives better. they are focused on these stunts. when you see the president talking about things like ukraine and meeting resources and the need to get funding for the wic program, these are things the house needs to pass. and they refused to do it and it will only get more intense over the next month. they are moving towards a government shut down then a few weeks and they will leave town

without doing anything to avoid it while floating on an impeachment inquiry. host: are you supporting, opposing or unsure about starting an impeachment inquiry? we will start with robin. for montrose, virginia. caller: good morning. i definitely oppose it. it's based on his son, not what he has done. i feel like it's a waste of time. there is too much to do. i think they are focused on revenge but if they p out sound information that had tdo with mbiden i would be all for it.

if you had definite evidence then yes, you should have an inquiry. but this is just people talking, there is no proof. i feel like it's a waste of time. host: let's go to pflugerville, texas. caller: good morning, how is it going? host: good. caller: i agree with the inquiry but i don't agree with republicans because i believe hunter biden is kind of out there. but i feel joe biden should have an inquiry because of his continuing actions on the border and the arming of the israeli government. host: thicame in on facebook,

the biden crime family is more crooked than the snake river. brodd's next from texas. caller: good morning america. i think this is very important. the biden family has received 20 million from foreign agencies. there is start somewhere. the only way to legitimately do it is for the fbi and cia did do it but they're going to protect him. the mainstream media refuses to cover the facts. host: this is another portion

from speaker johnson's remarks at the council summit where he lies out the evidence they have against president biden. [video clip] >> where do you see the evidence? >> the judiciary committee has been doing the investigation and there are numbers that stick out to me. at least $20 million floating into the biden family from foreign countries including russia and china. 22 times president biden met with her spoke on the phone with business associates of hunter and james biden. 16 times he has changed his story about that. this is compelling evidence and

the more the bank records of come forward, as jamie comer says, bank records don't lie. we have a responsibility to follow the facts wherever they lead and we are still in that process and we will see where it leads. host: we are taking your calls in this first hour if you support or oppose a biden impeachment inquiry. if you support that number is (202) 748-8000, opposed (202) 748-8001, unsure (202) 748-8002. here is roll call with this headline, johnson sets up impeachment vote. mccarthy never set up a vote. speaker mike johnson is moving forward with the floor vote to

formalize the impeachment probe, a move that kevin mccarthy never made. what changed? johnson has signaled that he and other house leaders were confident they would have ample republican votes to formally authorize the inquiry. the house has no choice but to approve an impeachment resolution thus set up subpoena powers for the committees. those three committees are the oversight committee, judicial and we will have the house committee hearing at c-span.org and you can watch that on c-span.org and on our website, our mobile video app.

back to the calls, ray, north carolina. caller: thank you for taking my call. i totally support this because the evidence is overwhelming. hunter biden's laptop is all when he refers to the big guy. biden has said he has no connection to his son's business dealings which is laughable if you ask me. let's get back to what they did to trump. there was no evidence against tromp but they impeached him on a whim. host: which impeachment? caller: both of them. for three years it was russia,

russia russia. and they said there was no evidence he did anything wrong. it is mind-boggling the way politics are happening. host: let's talk to malcolm next in louisville, kentucky. caller: my issues are the following, if biden did the things that he accused of doing. i believe he is innocent. if there are two facts bring them forward and present that information. that should be the end of it. host: larry in florida, good morning. caller: i support the inquiry

with joe biden on burisma. follow the chinese balloon for six days. i don't think china would allow an american balloon to go across their country. the bank records, the money that went into the biden family. thank you. host: and wanda, new jersey. note? ? caller: good morning america. i definitely? caller: oppose the impeachment hearing against president biden for the simple fact, it's a distraction from the kushner's who made 260

million while they were working in the white house. in the fact that jared kushner got $2 billion and entertain the saudi's at the bedminster golf course. i know they gave them nuclear secrets on this country. these people are straight up autocrats in this country is in a whole lot of trouble. america, please wake up. this is a fascist movement to take over our democracy and we will never get it back. we better take heed to what the holy spirit our democracy and we will never get it back. is revealing to america. we are going down with the ship and donald trump will become the richest man in history after all the money they have already hustled. what about the 300% inflation on

his properties in new york? you guys need to start watching the real news and get off fox because they have been sued for billions of dollars for brainwashing maga supporters. host: the front page of the washington times, the hunter biden tax indictments leave burisma out. caller: i support this impeachment inquiry. so my democrat friends, sunlight is the best disinfectant. the reason for this inquiry is that the white house has been stonewalling releasing information to the committee. if

joe biden is so innocent, why are we hiding information and evidence? that's called evidence interference. and if joe biden is so innocent you would think he would go to the podium and say i did nothing wrong, everything is fine and by the way nancy pelosi impeach trump. if he is so innocent why does he not come forward and say i did not do anything wrong. in the last color from new jersey. a report came out that under tromp, the mortgage rate was 1700 and under joe biden it's 3300 and that's from the wall street journal.

report came out that under host: you said joe biden never said he didn't do anything wrong. he has denied wrongdoing. caller: has he laid out details? has he laid out any facts or details? caller:host: der nguyen from ra, north carolina. -- derwyn. caller: this congress has not done anything. they've only passed 22 laws. second to the worst historically. the republicans need to find issues the american people want to talk about. i don't want to hear about impeachment i want to hear what

they have planned for america. host: mitt romney was on meet the press talking about his opposition to an inquiry. [video clip] >> have you seen any evidence that joe biden has committed high crimes and misdemeanors? >> i think you ought to have some evidence or inclination that there has been wrongdoing and there hasn't not been anything provided. >> do you oppose an inquiry? >> fortunately, for most people we are not responsible for the misdeeds of our kids and grandkids. president biden's son is a very unsavory person and has had some

damaging personal foibles including a drug habit. thus stop president biden. and we won't impeach someone for the sins of their kids. host: that was senator mitt romney. we are taking your calls. we have kyle from louisiana. caller: i think this is a cover for trump. republicans will stick with this. trump has been before the courts and lost. they just want to get there and do what they wanted to do but we've already been there. they have done so many things to our democracy that's already on

the verge of breaking. they are trying to even the playing field for corrupt people. they claim to be christians and righteous judges. president trump raped a woman for goodness sake. he's been married multiple times. look at his own kids in his son-in-law? host: george and montgomery, alabama. caller: i support it. host: why? caller: i want the republicans to make a bigger fool of themselves.

they are ridiculous, dumb and stupid. every last one of them. they change speakers every six months. they are a total disgrace. and they are supporting it clowned like president trump. you have to be kidding me? jim jones was a better man than president trump. host: this is the hill that breaks down all of the angles for the house gop impeachment inquiry. burisma in the claim of bribe, the handling of prosecution, family finances. if you would like to read it it's on the hill.com.

selma from the bronx, new york. caller: i oppose this 100%. donald trump is a rapist. he is a liar. he is a punk. he is a thief. i oppose this impeachment, it is only revenge. impeachment, give me a break. donald trump's kids are crooks. jared kushner received 2 billion from the saudi's. donald trump and his family, they are the crooks and thieves.

and donald trump raped a woman in new york city. i am calling you from new york city. he raped e jean king. none of us care about those crooked impeachment inquiry. get a life. host: sam is in mississippi. good morning. caller: i do support the inquiry. first of all, he needs to be in peace because of the open borders. that in itself is impeachable to me. the fact that his picture has been taken with hunter's

associates and he gets on tv and denies, will not denies but talks about withholding money from burisma. unless the prosecutor is fired for investigating the company that hunter was with. biden doesn't know where he is out or remember where he was at. to me, the most important thing is to get impeached over the border policy. and that lady that called from new york, she doesn't know what she's talking about. some of these other clowns that are culling in and talking about trump. this episode is about

biden, not trump. i am a ron desantis supporter but this question is about biden, not trump. host: was talk to ross in huntsville, alabama. caller: a short history. i was born in the country, and alabama. the coal mining town. we could not vote back in those days. the jim crow south and so forth. it didn't bother us even though

i have joined an organization after i became a student. what i am saying now, a general comment. as far as impeachment and all these activities, i grew up in a time where we couldn't vote at all. it didn't bother us because we were poor. we did the best we could to survive. i hope that america overcomes this mentality that we are in. the republicans, the democrats are always in competition trying to get rid of somebody or kill

somebody. we just have to get rid of it because it's just getting worse and worse. i am not in favor of anybody being impeached. i believe justice will prevail ultimately and thus the real thing. one other comment, the open borders. the open borders are only open to the poor when the rich come over with permission. they are allowed to come over here from all the countries in the world and then they bring people over here illegally to work for them and they won't complain because they are getting kicked out. it's a scam. thank you for allowing me to vent. host: we have peter next in vancouver, washington. caller: hi.

host: what do you think? caller: politics has always been filed, nasty and deceitful. unfortunately, americans have lost a lot of trust in our institutions and professions and scholars and executives. i think we need to focus on greater and bigger problems, determine what those are and to me, this is a frivolous waste of time. we need to get to the business of managing the government and the world. we are in a great place and biden has calmed the

waters. he has done a good job overall. he has made mistakes. may be the border is out of control. those are our big issues. there you have it, i am opposed. host: larry and pennsylvania. -- in pennsylvania. caller: i would impeached biden he is supportive of killing babies, children and women. i want to say something to republicans. become independent and try to save this country. voting for these two parties that we are not invited to.

trump and biden have crime families. we need to become independent and find other candidates to get out of this. host: what do you mean that biden is in fever of killing women and the elderly? caller: because he supports israel killing women and children in palestine. host: so you want him impeached for that? caller: yes. host: is there someone you're supporting for president? caller: i would say cornell west. host: carrie in, illinois. caller: the problem is people don't understand i oppose

impeachment because joe biden has not done anything wrong. donald trump did not even wanted to tell covid was around and people want to vote for a man that is ruining this country. you are going to vote for fascism or democracy. which one do you want republicans? if donald trump wins you couldn't get fascism in your world will crumble. no medicare or social security. ron desantis doesn't even have insurance for floridian homes. nikki haley doesn't even want women to have their own rights. but you will impeach a president who has done everything in his

power. now israel, i don't agree with that. but i will not support a man who wants to be a dictator who wants to turn this country into a trashcan. host: let's go back to the speaker mike johnson. speaking to reporters justifying the impeachment. [video clip] >> the inquiry is necessary because our judiciary oversight committee, they've done an extraordinary job following the facts. article one of the constitution gives the house the impeachment authority. impeachment is the heaviest power the house has because it's so serious. the previous couple of years the house democrats cheapened impeachment using it for political purposes.

we call those sham impeachments. what you are seeing now is the opposite of that. a deliberate investigation following the facts. that's what the constitution requires the house to do we've come to this inflection point. the white house is stonewalling the investigation. they are refusing to turn over key witnesses, refusing to turn over documents and the house has no choice so formally adopt an impeachment inquiry so that when the impeachments are challenged we will be at the apex of our constitutional authority. that will allow us to continue. this is not a vote to impeach president biden but to continue the inquiry of impeachment.

>> all moderates understand this is not a political decision it is a legal decision. whether someone is for or against impeachment is not up for vote right now. host: the speaker mike johnson from last week. the archives not handing over documents. here's the latest on that. the national are to provide 1799 emails. the national archives and records administration said monday it would make more than 62,000 pages of records available.

in august james comer asked for unrestricted access to unredacted emails from biden's time as vice president regarding hunter biden and burisma. while they were released they were heavily redacted. comber requested the unredacted versions of the emails. email messages to and from president biden and hunter biden related to burisma in ukraine and those emails are going to the house gop. john in north carolina. caller: good morning.

people talking about how bad republicans are. i am a trump man. host: what do you think of the inquiry? caller: i think it's great. they impeach trump twice for nothing. i can't wait until they show all they have. he should be impeached just for the order. he took an oath to protect the united states of america. that is not what he's doing. think of what is costing people for them being over here and all the people that have been killed . nobody seems to care about that anymore. i don't see how a democrat can call me stupid. host: richard in north virginia.

caller: donald trump not want us to know about that he tried to close the border and they called him a racist for doing so. good morning. host: keep going richard. you have to mute your tv, you are listening to the delay. caller: the soul that said the president was unable to handle and impeachment. host: you have to mute your tv. caller: joe biden has been a

corrupt and pathological liar. he led 80 billion of our tech equipment and afghanistan over the objections of everyone. the border is a mess. everything he has done like nikita khrushchev's illegitimate son coming in. sorry about my confusion. host: dennis from toledo, ohio. do we have dennis? caller: i would like to remind these republicans. in the republican state of iowa,

there was a young woman killed by an illegal hired by a republican farmer. donald trump did not protect her. i want the republicans to get the head out of thereabouts. host: next from arizona. caller: in 1973, and a town hall meeting. he literally next from arizona. said he was corrupt. i live in arizona and is scary over here. it sounds to me like everyone

wants another 9/11 because that's going happen. i am blown away how stupid some of these democrats are. what we have to do to make them see how bad he is? biden belongs in prison. host: angela from new jersey. caller: i am a conservative and i support president trump. when i hear the democrats talk about president trump, all they talk about is what they hear on tv. the woman from new jersey talking about donald trump raping someone. i hope a lot of these people never have to experience what president trump is how to experience because their own mothers won't believe them.

if the same type of media with after them the way they went after president trump. it was always personal issues and not policies. the reason why i oppose what the republicans are doing is why not just let him get voted out of office. why would you want the democrats to have a reason to get rid of biden. they know he can beat trump. a lot of republicans don't like trump, that's what a lot of people don't understand. especially those in elected office and the establishment people. they don't like him and i think they're trying to put somebody

and that can be donald trump. i don't understand why bother with biden whenever he's going to lose his election. all of his executive orders will be undone. i don't understand what they're doing. host: even if the house were to impeach president biden, the senate is most likely not going to remove him. caller: i understand what you are saying if it even gets up far. they are making a way so that the democrats will have a reason for him to step down. they know he's not running the country. let's wait until he gets out of office. host: let's take a look at this anti-impeachment add targeting republicans representing

districts one by biden. [video clip] >> republicans have failed to pass a budget but what are they focused on? a bogus impeachment inquiry without a single stride of evidence that he did anything wrong. brendan williams wants to focus on real priorities, not political stones. it is time to focus on real issues. host: we are taking your calls for another 15 minutes on this question. do you support or oppose and impeachment inquiry? we have joseph. caller: all you have to do is listen to the radio. they have president biden on tape saying to ukraine, if you

don't stop investigating my son you will not get the one billion. six hours later, they stopped investigating his son. host: you heard that? caller: all you have to do is listen to the radio and watch the other channels, the conservative channels. all we get from c and lies. -- lies from cnn. caller: you have hunter on tape complaining about paying his father's bills for fixing his house and other things.

i have to pay for my father's expenses. he went to russia and got a bunch of money. he went to china and got a bunch of money from china. listen to the news. don't listen to cnn, msnbc, even cbs is an even reporting all the news. when trump said let's go to the capital and peacefully protest. but then they cut it out. host: our next caller from maryland. caller: i think president biden has done an excellent job.

the republicans have done absolutely nothing for the american people. one of the things i admire about tromp, he says he's going to be a dictator and anyone who thinks there's a difference between a dictator and communist, he is going to take over. he has already said he's going to get rid of social security, medicare, health care. he will have the federal government under his thumb. this is a free country, one of the freest in the world. you can come here and be anything you want. not to mention the fact that diabetes shot, and horrible insurance.

why would somebody want to get rid of all of those things? tromp has made it very plain that's what he wants to do. the most interesting thing about what he's trying to do and the people who will be harmed is white people. those are the diabetics and these are the facts. i think about the people in my family that don't have to pay those high prices anymore. yes groceries are hired but so are salaries. why does anyone want to change that?

i will continue to support biden as long as he is in the white house. i don't care if he is 110. host: joan from west virginia. caller: i want to support what richard said. you can see biden on stage at the world economic forum bragging about what he did to try to get the prosecutor fired who was going to investigate burisma. that's something you can find and at if you want. i support the impeachment inquiry because there is evidence. he received money, there are bank records, phone records. if people want to look it up they can find phone records. hunter talking about the big guys sitting right next to them

while he is trying to do dealings, shake someone down for money in china. as far as the people attacking trump, the families always had a brand. what does the biden family have to sell? influence. joe biden has been in politics his whole life. and under trump the poor and people of color did better. people of color did better under trump because of the freedom. as far as bringing fascism, do they think you don't have fascism now? where you can't say where you want to say -- what you want to

say without being canceled? host: we have john from el paso, texas. caller: thank you for accepting my call. i find a lot of people calling in with the supporting, opposing or unsure about impeachment. it's incumbent upon the people in the house to do their jobs whether they are republicans or democrats. following the facts like representative johnson said. as citizens of america we need to let the facts be presented. not from all of these stations where they have heard this or that. we have to allow them to follow the facts and make their decision after that. host: we will talk to elmo in

louisiana. caller: good morning. we have the worst fentanyl problem in this country. mccarthy did this, hello? host: were listening. caller: they did this to clinton. right before an election. i understand trump has a lot of problems so they're trying to do the same thing to biden so he doesn't win again. if they wanted talk about tromp look at the 2 billion tax cut and how the rich get richer under republicans.

every time a democrat wins they have to come in and clean up the mess. and you talk about tromp, the most corrupt cabinet ever in washington. people need to wake up and stop listening to all those stations feeding you this. host: next from new hampshire. caller: how are you doing today? host: ok. caller: i want the democrats to know a lot of the stuff swept under the rug about joe biden, a lot of the stuff would not be known other than fox. they are trying to give a sweetheart deal to hunter biden.

here he is in 2023 trying to throw a sweetheart deal to joe biden son. when these things get pulled out into the light to mr. johnson and the republicans i'm sure these things will be relevant. to the democrats who don't want to hear the truth, i'm sure mr. johnson will bring this to their attention. host: who are you going to vote for in the new hampshire primary? caller: there is the only person to vote for, the person who got robbed. he was fighting the whole term of trying to get this country on track. but instead, the democrats decided they would throw him in jail. the dossier, that someone

decided to pay money for. host: let's go to harmon in seattle, washington. caller: hi, how are you? host: i'm ok. caller: it seems like you're a really nice lady. i have to say that first of all. all of these right-wingers talking about hunter biden. instead of saying something about ivanka trump's, her husband that took the 2 billion from the saudi's. i want to ask you a question, i know you won't answer it. why don't you ever do a story on that? why don't you ever have people calling in or asking questions

about that? why did you take 2 billion from the saudi's? why don't you ask these right wing maga's that? host: charles from enterprise, alabama. caller: how are you doing this morning? host: i'm doing ok. caller: i have a couple of things to say. i am not a republican. i am not a democrat, i'm a conservative. joe biden should go to jail for elder abuse for running for the president of the united states. we have an individual in office who has no clue about taking care of the border.

he supports abortion. he put our country in economic disorder after shutting down the pipeline. i have no use for this man. the light is on but nobody's home. that's all i have to say. host: timothy and mansfield, ohio. caller: i will keep it short. host: ok. caller: i listen to all the people all the time. tromp has a rape case and i don't understand why we don't talk about that. whether it's rape, sexual assault. we should not have this guy is the leader of america. we should discuss that a lot more. have a good day america, i love you. host: that is the last call for

this segment of washington journal but a lot more to come. i'm next, we will dig deeper into the federal investigation into hunter biden and how it fits into the impeachment inquiry. that's with sarah bedford from the washington examiner. and up next shane harris talks about his work on the pbs frontline documentary called "the discord leaks". from the highly classified documents leaked on the platform. we will be right back. ♪ >> all this month watched the best of c-span on q&a. the author will discuss her book

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investigations editor for the washington examiner, welcome to the program guest: thanks for having me. host: the house is scheduled to vote this week on formalizing impeachment inquiry into president biden's. they say is important to formalize the process. guest: house republicans say they are having trouble getting documents and testimony from the biden administration and some of the former business partners that work in the biden family business orbit. we are talking about a few outstanding witnesses from the justice artman were involved -- from the justice department who were involved. and we are looking at some of the people who worked in hunter biden's business orbit. you can think about the investigation on two separate tracks. right now, one of them is the investigation into how the justice department handled the probe of hunter biden over the past five years and why it took this long for criminal charges to be filed and the other one is the underlying business

misconduct, alleged misconduct that hunter biden and his uncle engaged in during the years when joe biden was vice resident. host: and what connection there might be to the vice president? guest: and that's the key president -- and the key question. the house republicans have suggested that joe biden has not been entirely truthful about the level he had of his family's business and the level of personal involvement he had in some of those deals and relationships with the foreign business partners. because of that, house republicans who had been on the ends about an impeachment inquiry a few months ago, some of them invulnerable districts, are coming around to the idea that there is enough smoke to formalize this impeachment inquiry. host: this move comes the house oversight committee has scheduled an in-person deposition with hunter biden. where does that stand? guest: there is an expectation that hunter biden likely will not appear. when the deposition was

scheduled in the subpoena was sent, hunter biden had not been indicted yet in california on some serious tax charges. now you could conceivably see his defense lawyer saying it's not the right time to go before congress and answer a bunch of questions in a setting and produce testimony that could be used against you in a court of law as we defend these charges in california. i think there is some skepticism that hunter biden will show up. host: he has said he is willing to testify publicly. why not take that? guest: house republicans say there is more better and thorough testimony behind closed doors. one reason is perhaps lawyers leave the questioning behind closed doors. the staff attorneys have the knowledge about the investigation the other reason is in a public setting, the lawmakers each have five minutes and they take turns asking questions and it's hard to build

a line of inquiry and that public setting. behind closed doors, republicans and democrats take turns with uninterrupted hour-long sessions of having their staff ask questions. it also tends to be less about a performance by the members and more about getting answers. behind closed doors, the testimony tends to be a lot higher all at host: hunter biden was indicted last week in california on tax evasion charges. this was brought by the special counsel david weiss. explain the charges and why california and why now? was it expected? guest: now is the key question. from the 56 page indictment that david weiss filed in court last week, there didn't appear to be any new evidence from the irs. investigators had their hands on for the past two or three years. it's not clear why it took so

long but in terms of the charges themselves there are some pretty serious felonies included among them, three felonies that involve hunter biden allegedly lying to the irs about his taxes those are former serious them charges for the earlier years. the tax years from 2016 are in california because that's where hunter biden was living at the time he aired those return or failed to prepare them. host: you have an article in the washington examiner -- guest: this is another key episode in the investigation that house republicans are looking at and that criminal investigators looked at throughout their probe. there is a democratic donor that gave significant funds toward

joe biden's reelection and paid off a lot of hunter biden's outstanding tax debt starting in 2020. hunter biden hadn't paid his taxes for years is what prosecutors are alleging and hunter biden said he struggled with addiction at the time and didn't pay those addict -- pay those taxes. at the time, hunter biden was facing a paternity suit in arkansas and his ex-wife divorce attorneys were coming after him for his tax returns as well. they were being requested in the paternity suit. for a lot of reasons beyond his father's political campaign, he needed to file taxes at that point. from the biden standpoint, from what they told investigators at in the public, hunter biden and kevin morris became best friends quickly and kevin morris paid off hunter biden's outstanding taxes. host: which was how much of that time? guest: he owed hundreds of thousands of dollars kevin moore

started paying them off and paid off the biggest vegan 2021 after joe biden had become president area investigators question whether there is more to the story and whether it was friendship. was it the only reason? or it had something to do with protecting joe biden from little risk in which case it could be considered and in-kind contribution to the election and reelection campaign and that's what republicans have alleged. the house ways and means committee released in emailing which kevin morris specifically referenced the political risk of hunter biden's outstanding tax debt when he was corresponding with hunter biden accountants. there is a lot of russian about why hunter biden's personal friend would have engaged with his lawyers to get the taxes paid and it's an episode i think you will see resurface in the impeachment inquiry. host: we will take your calls. if you like to ask a question of

our guest, you can do that on our lines by party, republicans, (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000 and independents (202) 748-8002 and via text and social media. this is the tax charges in addition to the gun charges in delaware, remind us about with those were about. guest: those have to do with an incident in 2018 in which hunter biden allegedly lied on a gun form -- everybody has to fill it out when they file about being a user. he said he was not when he purchased his gun. or into his own admission in his memoir and public interviews since he was struggling with substance abuse at that time, the incident got weirder when in october, his then girlfriend, his brother's widow found the

gun in his truck, got scared and threw the gun in a dumpster. when hunter biden learned about that, he said you have to go back and get the gun so she drives back to the grocery store and the gun is gone. it turns out a homeless person had found of it that got delaware police involved so there was a record of the incident happening in delaware police became aware of it and it will be difficult for hunter biden to face those charges. there is a police record of him that he possessed the gun because of this incident. he has published spoken about he wasn't using aikins -- a controlled substance at the time. his lawyer and that delaware case file for motions to dismiss those federal gun charges. i think the strongest one is a case that the actual underlying law preventing people who abuse drugs from owning a gun is unconstitutional. it violated hunter biden second amendment rights and because of the supreme court decision in

this landmark gun case which was in new york, the law should be struck down. there could very well be a case for that but you didn't see hunter biden's lawyer arguing he wasn't using drugs or that he didn't have the gun because in that sense, prosecutors have him dead to rights of the need to argue the law itself is unfair. host: let's talk about president biden's brother james who has also been subpoenaed. how does he fit in to this investigation on the tax side or the impeachment? guest: that's one of the strongest arguments that hunter biden's business entanglements go beyond him as a private independent. james biden was deeply involved in these deals, particular one of the most lucrative once in china. james biden and hunter biden come from different professional and educational backgrounds. there is really only one thing that a single company looking to hire them both would gain from having them both working on the same deal and that's the

illusion of access or maybe more to joe biden. james biden has spoken repeatedly with investigators, criminal investigators and he is now facing a subpoena from house republicans. host: democrats will say there is no evidence linking the president to wrongdoing when it comes to his business -- his sons business dealings. guest: it's important to step back and look at where we started in the 2020 race. joe biden said he had absolute no knowledge of his sons business deals and has never discussed business with hunter biden and there was an absolute firewall between his government, business and hunter biden's private business. we now know that's really not the case. the goalposts have been moved so far that joe biden is saying my name wasn't on the letterhead of this company.

i wasn't in business with my son but that is not the story he told the american people three years ago. it's important to look at there is no evidence that joe biden broke the law. there is plenty of evidence that he lied to the american people and that he was in some ways involved in his sons business dealings. host: that's not an impeachable offense? guest: being untruthful is something that bill clinton was impeached for under oath. joe biden hasn't been put under oath and all of this and i think house republicans are trying to shine a light on the lies that have been told about all of this and they have uncovered evidence that joe biden had involvement in his sons business. host: house republicans have claimed that special counsel weiss'investigation has been plagued with interference. what has his response been to that. guest: he has defended the

integrity of the justice department. both sides of tried to make it out to be nonpartisan and hunter biden's arguing that he is not a legitimate special counsel. prosecuting hunter biden perfect due to reasons and republican say david weiss is a liberal a partisan and he is covering up for the bidens and i think the reality is he is a career prosecutor who follows to the letter, the bureaucratic process inside the justice department that's part of why this has taken so long. he's never been described as a hardcharging or aggressive prosecutor so when he was told repeatedly by justice to check this box and check that attorney , check in with this litigation attorney and the doj division so he did all of those things but he created a delay that looks suspicious but i think the filing in california shows it

was not his intention to cover this up because hunter biden is facing some pretty serious charges in california. host: let's talk to some callers. mark is up first, a republican from texas. caller: hi, i have a question. do you know if there are any prominent democrats or anti-trump republicans who support the house inquiry? guest: i think most republicans at this point support house republican inquiry. there is only one republican who said he will vote no on the resolution that house republicans are intending to vote on this. it's congressman ken buck. given the republicans in the district biden one and have not supported donald trump are supporting the inquiry at this point because it's short of

impeaching joe biden. i don't think the votes are there for that but support for the impeachment inquiry is unified in the republican party. guest: the big thing that changed was that the irs whistleblowers emerged in may of this year. hunter biden's lawyers have introduced a lot of evidence last night in the delaware case to suggest that the u.s. attorney's office in delaware was willing to offer hunter biden a deal that involved no guilty plea and no charges of any kind essentially to enter into a non-prosecution agreement. before the irs whistleblowers emerged. the timeline vote of when weiss reneged on that and said you need to have criminal charges involved in a guilty plea for hunter biden but the pr

situation is changing around the case rapidly. the timelines one neatly. weiss is not said he change his mind because of the irs whistleblower. that seems to be what moved the needle in terms of what u.s. attorney weiss needed from hunter biden in order to protect the appearance of integrity in his investigation. host: let's go to the democrats line, marilyn, good morning. caller: good morning, ladies. i think this is him obvious desperate attempt by the republicans and the so-called conservatives to paint joe biden as crooked as donald trump. they will bleed this out up until november, 2024 so they can have the position to say biden has been investigated just like trump. the difference is, there is no evidence that president biden

has done anything nefarious or illegal. compare that to donald trump and the man has been indicted four times, 91 different counts. this is another desperate attempt with no evidence at all. i'm glad you are bringing this forward because the american people hopefully will see it for what it is. the conservative media echo chamber will hopefully come to their senses and call this out for what it is which is a desperate attempt to dirty up president biden going into the presidential election of next year. guest: it's important to remember that this biden investigation predates the criminal investigation of donald trump. while it has the effect of creating this false equivalency between job biden and alleged wrong room and donald trump's alleged wrongdoing, hunter biden and his family business

situation started coming under investigation from the justice department in 2018. investigation of donald trump with classified documents in the handling of the january 6 situation didn't start until 2021 when he left the presidency. this has been maybe a slower burn in the justice department but they predate the trump investigation. host: back to the gun charge, we got this question on ask -- guest: yes, fifth circuit ruled. there was a defendant was charged with a similar offense before they case came before the supreme court. there is a legal test the supreme court justices applied to gun laws. that is the case that hunter biden's lawyers cited in their case. the bruin case is a strong one.

the supreme court ruled everyone has to apply for gun laws and they have to see whether gun laws fall under the regular definition of regulations and get into the mind work of the framework when they wrote the second amendment it was very limited restrictions on guns. because of that, i think hunter biden has a strong constitutionally argument on the gun charges but let akleh, it will be difficult for joe biden because joe biden has decried the bruin case as a travesty and a stain on the supreme court's legacy and it strengthens the laws that hunter biden is being prosecuted under so that will make it a politically difficult situation for joe biden. host: independent line from watertown, tennessee. caller: i've got three points. understand that the doj investigations are the cover-up. this special counsel allowed

charges to expire under the statute of limitations then they worked with the hunter lawyers for the sweetheart deal to help the cover-up and now they've made these tax charges to help hunter hide behind the fifth amendment. it's not that difficult. find out the source of hunter's income, find out what he did to earn that money and where did the money go? as to the evidence, even a moderator did not know that there is videotape of joe biden shaking down the ukrainians because they were investigating hunter and burisma. the other thing to say is there is no evidence really? we have direct deposit receipts from an llc going from the money that hunter was earning, if you call that come from the llc directly to joe biden. when you state is no evidence, that's is not correct. guest: we've heard it starting

to emerge from the house oversight committee investigation, some evidence that money was exchanged between these accounts. joe biden says they were repayments for loans. they said hunter biden was paying him back. they haven't provided strong proof of that but they have an explanation for all of these payments. the varese mama work that hunter biden did in 20 14 and 15 is now in a situation where the justice department cannot charge them for allegedly misconduct that took place during those years and that's the frustration from house republicans and why they are on there to track impeachment investigation. the irs whistleblower told congress that investigators had strong evidence to charge hunter biden with crimes related to the 2014 and 2015 work i merrily a

violation they allege of the foreign agents registration act. the irs whistleblower said when it was allowed to expire, their illegal foreign lobbying case fell apart because the strongest allegations of violating the ferris act. host: he said there is video of joe biden shaking down the ukrainians to not investigate his son. guest: i think he's referring to an appearance joe biden minute the council of foreign relations where he was talking about his effort to get the ukrainian prosecutor removed for corruption. joe biden was not alone in calling for that i'm a there were other western governments there were also calling for him to be fired. corruption in ukraine wasn't limited to the prosecutor. a lot of the ukrainian government was struggling with corruption problems at that time. joe biden said in that appearance on video that he had

threatened that then ukrainian president with withholding usaid until that prosecutor was fired and the prosecutor was fired. joe biden was not admitting to taking down the prussic for any reason that had anything to do with hunter biden. he was talking about a corruption problem that was a target of u.s. policy at the time. host: we've got a poson x -- two things there. guest: the first point about whether hunter biden should testify publicly -- it puts james comer of the house oversight committee in a difficult position to deny an offer from hunter biden to appear publicly. while it is true the republicans

think they can get better testimony behind closed doors, it still looks like they are not being transparent with their investigation so politically, hunter biden's lawyers made a smart play and put house republicans in a difficult position hunter biden testifying publicly is better than him not testifying at all and they're looking -- and he would be under oath. host: an c-span could cover it. guest: we would all tune in. at this point, it's probably difficult to put hunter biden on the stand in congress when they need to carefully weigh what he says from here and out as they prepare to go to trial for the tax issue. host: the irs whistleblower? guest: the irs whistleblower has not and discredited. there are two of them but most of what they have said has been validated by other witnesses and documents. some of the context is different. david weiss has said the recent why he delayed different

investigative steps didn't have anything to do with protecting the bidens, it had to do with red tape in the justice department. all the things the whistleblower said happened have been corroborated even if people at the justice department have had different explanations for those delays. host: let's talk to a republican. caller: i was watching the show and what gets my attention is all these democrats are bringing in trumped up charges, no pun intended against hunter and joe biden but what about the trumped up charges against donald trump? they've got the dossier, the impeachments and all this and none of it was actually true.

where is the justice in that? host: any comments there? guest: to the extent that republican see a double standard is a big reason for how quickly the two probes were able to -- able to move and why hunter biden's probe took five years. the bureaucratic red tape that applied during hunter biden's case that there were delays and many layers within the justice department to verify nation for every witness and research in those barriers were removed during the trump investigation to the extent republican see a double standard here. it's the speed with which the trump investigation move relative to the hunter biden investigation. host: a democrat in district heights, maryland, good morning caller: good morning. i was listening to you talk and thank you for being on the show. you mentioned the investigation for president biden predates president trump.

i think that is exactly the point. it predates president trump and they still haven't shown any type of evidence to show any wrongdoing by president biden. i think president biden son is what it's about not president biden and the american people are smart enough to see what's happening here. republicans are trying to take people's eyes off of the real issues that aunt -- and what the american people there about and i think it's a losing strategy for the republican already as we've seen in so many recent election. it's a losing strategy i think perhaps it needs to be shifted to something that really matters. do you think the republicans would be better off focusing on issues the american people care about instead of an inquiry which is not produced any type of evidence which actually predates the investigation of president trump, which we know has produced so many different

types of court trials? where's the evidence and do you think the republicans should use a strategy to focus on issues people care about? guest: joe biden is never been under criminal investigation. there has not been any criminality that he's been accused of so far. he has not faced any kind of probe like donald trump or hunter biden has. the impeachment inquiries the first time the investigation has been focused on joe biden himself. a lot of these questions of never really been asked or answered before. i think you are right, the republicans have had a messaging problem that clear the 2022 election and they want to focus more and economy, abortions and issues people care about because hunter biden's laptop has been around since 2020 and it didn't help them win that election for succeed in 20 and might not help them win in 2024.

this is the first time a lot of these questions are being asked about joe biden's involvement. host: bill in new jersey, independent. caller: i have two questions for both of you. at one point does the supporting story focus on the suppression of this important story on how it affected the 2020 election? the other thing is, what's the difference between the current whistleblowers and the computer repair man who first had the computer and called out for what it was? it was suppressed. isn't the 2020 election and the effect it had on whose president the most important point we should focus on? host: what do you think? guest: a lot of house republicans would agree with him in the house oversight miti in the weaponization of government subcommittee on digital -- under

the judiciary committee of asked questions about how social media companies work to suppress the spread of the hunter biden laptop story in 2020 and about the origins of a letter signed by dozens of former intelligence committee officials that called laptop story at the time a russian disinformation effort when at the time, we know that the fbi had possession of the laptop in 2020 and had verified it as authentic. and yet, we are still pressuring social media companies to take down stories about the hunter biden laptop. that is a separate track that house republicans have been looking at in the context of their broader investigation of social media censorship. host: we will take one more call, chris, a democrat. caller: good morning. i don't know the young lady's

name. host: sarah bedford. caller: as i watch this as best i can through an independent lens, all i'm hearing is republican leaning points. also the main thing i hear is the disrespect in calling the president by his first name. we only have one president of the time and it's not the bigoted guy. if they really want to do some journalistic investigation at the washington examiner, i'm still waiting to hear of donald trump's son in law has $2 billion from the saudi's and no one is making a word about it and donald trump is doing everything he can to be a dictator. why don't they investigate some of the dictator information or dictator knowledge that donald trump is saying? guest: it's a one-sided conversation about hunter biden. house republicans are the only

ones talking about this and trying to an -- advancing forward and democrats think it's a description then there is not enough evidence time president joe biden to the businesses they are not really talking about it at all. to the extent the explanation of these inquiries is coming through the lens of house republicans, it's a one-sided conversation in congress. i think that there is a lot of parallels there often drawn between the donald trump trials and the fact that hunter biden is having these legal issues and it's hard not to compare them because they are both wing of the same time in a court of law. also on the jared kushner issue, and ironic data point i suppose but while he was under scrutiny for his work in the white house, his lawyer is now hunter biden's lawyer.

host: a lot of democrats are drawing -- asking that question, what about jerry fisher and his dealings with the saudi's? guest: i don't think he had anywhere near the same criminal exposure that hunter biden seems to have in the eyes of the justice department. that might be a controversial business deal and the politically difficult one for his father-in-law to have navigated when the u.s. was having a tough time in the u.s.-saudi relationship but it wasn't an illegal business transaction and that's the distinction there. host: the house rules committee is meeting this morning and we will cover that on c-span.org in her mobile video app. what will happen during that and what are you expecting and what are the next steps? guest: the republicans are preparing their impeachment resolution for a vote as early as tomorrow. house republicans are locking up

the support. they believe they have it. then that could give the committee more power to enforce their subpoenas and work. they have a number of outstanding subpoenas right now. two justice department souls, one of the top business partners of hunter biden, those subpoenas will be difficult enforcing or without power of the impeachment in being formalized. host: -- guest: there has not been evidence that data was added or manipulated area that is a claim to hunter biden and his team have made. they are counter suing the laptop owner who owns the repair shop from which this laptop came in delaware. there hasn't been no evidence that data has been minute lead but rudy giuliani is dealing

with a lawsuit for the way he handled laptop and violating hunter biden's privacy. i don't know the bidens have a good legal claim that the date it was stolen or manipulated but they likely have a strong violation case to be made against the laptop owner. host: for real, last call this time, new york, republican. caller: good morning, america. why isn't hunter biden being prosecuted for not being registered as a foreign agent? i believe the biden family is completely corrupt. how can america forgive a president like that who is a complete liar? it's a corrupt family. they have no product they are selling, nothing. they are just setting up llcs

that funnel money back to the family. host: let's get an answer to your question. guest: the foreign agent registration act requires people doing work on behalf of foreign interest representing those interests or the u.s. government to register with the justice department and share details of what they are doing foreign interest. hunter biden never registered for the work he did for overseas companies. the irs whistleblowers said a piece of their investigation fell apart or was made difficult after the statute of limitations expired for 2014 and 2015 because that is when hunter biden did the bulk of his work for marie's mom and that work -- for berea's mom - barisma. at the time, the head of the company was under investigation by ukraine for corruption and one at the u.s. to get out from under that investigation so he

hired hunter biden to the board and he brought in some foreign lobbyist who did not register and came under investigation from the justice department to help them get the head of the company out of trouble with the ukrainian government. some of his foreign business deals involve interfacing with other private companies, things that didn't trigger another part of the investigation but the barisma work was the strongest violation in the justice department can no longer charge him with that. host: sarah bedford, investigations editor for the washington examiner, thank you for joining us area guest: thanks for having me. host: more of your phone calls after the break. it's open for them, your chance to weigh in on any public policy or political topic on your mind and later washington post security reporter discusses his work on the new pbs frontline documentary on the league of

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>> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome "washington journal "washington journal back to." it's open forum and the phone lines are republicans, (202) 748-8001 democrats, (202) 748-8000 an independents (202) 748-8002. it is open forum before we get here calls i wanted to show you this portion -- we will get that for you with president zelenskyy's visit to washington as soon as it's ready. david and berkeley county, south carolina, republican. caller: good morning. follow-up from the last segment and the lady from the washington examiner. the callers talked about the trump family and their income from foreign sources and i want to point of the difference between the trump family affairs

is that these were businesses conducted openly and legitimately for which taxes were paid and there was no attempt to hide them whereas the biden business, if you can call it business, was done in secret and it required investigation to discover some of the facts. there is a big difference there. it's also true that the trumps are republicans and the bidens were democrats so there's a vastly different perspective interpreting those two facts. my second point is that this term the big lie, i'm surprised we don't call what happened with trump beginning with the dossier and before that and the 2.5 years and millions of dollars spent investigating trump about russian collusion which was

based entirely on falsehoods area that's the real big lie. i just want to point out those two things, a big difference between the trumps and the bidens. one family's business and the other are secret dealers paying money from foreign sources, having a very influential father. host: let's go to baltimore on the line for democrats, good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to state the fact that it seems kind of funny that the election is about to start next year and we are dealing with the ukraine and the israel conflict. now you want to start conducting trials for hunter biden. if president biden, they want to put too much stress on him for the upcoming election.

that said, thank you and god bless. host: sylvester mentioned ukraine select look at senate majority leader chuck schumer on the floor of the senate yesterday, talk about president zelenskyy's visit to washington. >> tomorrow morning, leader mcconnell and i will welcome you any and president let a mere zelenskyy to the senate. this will be the third time president zelenskyy meets with senator since the start of the war and it will be his most important visit of all area war in ukraine stands at a crossroads with their friends endeavor -- in desperate need of american aid to maintain pressure in vladimir putin. the last time he spoke to the senate, he warned us that with more -- without more aid to ukraine, they would lose the war. he said if there's anyone inspired by unresolved issues on capitol hill and his sick

clique. if there is a word what we most need this week, the word is to be serious. about the task at hand. if republicans in the senate to not show they are serious about finalizing an agreement the national security acted, vladimir putin will walk for ukraine and right through europe. both parties understand that aiding ukraine and resisting are critical for our national security but republicans have only republicans and are holding everything up because of unrealistic maximal demands on the border. host: that was senator schumer yesterday. this is richard and missouri, independent line, welcome to open forum. caller: thank you, how are you doing? host: good. caller: my problem is, why are we sending money to ukraine?

russia is already one the ukraine war. they are the most corrupt country in the world. the people just the american people need to wake up and realize there is not a republican and a democratic party. it's called the uniparty. host: why do you say russia has already won the war in ukraine? guest: because they have. russia has taken what they want. host: but they want the whole country. guest: and they want to go into europe. you don't think ukraine is corrupt? host: but you said that russia has already won the war. guest: they have. host: all right, fort wayne, indiana, democrat. caller: before i make my point, i have to say republicans, you guys need to check yourself.

saying russia has already won the war? you guys, everything you say these days has to bring a smile to vladimir putin's face. you need to check yourself. the reason i called in today is at least once a week, a republican calls and on the republican line and says we are not a democracy, we are constitutional republic and that is so offensive to me as a u.s. army veteran and a patriotic american. we are a democracy. yes we are a constitutional republic which is a form of democracy. the french of a parliamentary sister with the prime test system with a prime minister, that is a democracy. israel has a similar system. they are a democracy. ukraine has a president duly elected by the people that we are supporting because they are a democracy.

republicans including mike johnson, the right wing christian nationalist leader of the can't govern republicans in the house who said democracy is just two sheets on the wall, no sir. we are a democracy, a proud democracy and a supporter of democracies around the world and republicans, you better get your head out of the backside because you are completely playing into vladimir putin's favor and letting him in wins the world with your help. they are playing your comments on russian tv every night. republicans hate america, democrats love america. host: let's talk to a republican in reno, good morning. caller: good morning. i've been listening but i have a question. when i was in the army back in the 70's, we received orders from the pentagon not to listen

when nixon was in office, not to listen to anything about a call to arms but the sucker we have now in the white house now, he doesn't know what he supports. he didn't put any pressure on vladimir putin to stop him from invading and the border is out of control because him and his vice president did not act where they said, on in. -- come on in. they should get somebody else in there who knows how to control it, thank you. host: sean is next, independent line. good morning. caller: yeah, i have something to say here. there was no wars when trump was in.

the afghan war was the imagination of the republicans when trump was in. everything was peachy and ducky. [laughter] host: florida, on the line for democrats, good morning. are you there? caller: yes. i'm just curious about what people with think we just did not help ukraine defend themselves. what to they think vladimir putin would do? would he just stop in ukraine or would he keep going? if he just stopped in ukraine, do they think that would be possible that he would just forget everything he is already done?

he is going to take over the european nations which includes all of those small little countries one by one. is not going to stop there. are we just going to sit here and allow that to happen? we have to do something. this man is diabolical. host: what do you think about the ukraine aid being linked to border policy? caller: i don't have a problem with that. we have multiple things going on that we have to answer for. we have to fund ukraine, we have to fund israel, we need to protect our borders.

we need to make sure we have judges that are process and sing and exporting any migrants that come over that shouldn't be here. it takes an active congress of both parties to work together to be able to manage this other than just saying border of a border, border, our borders are open and not actually do anything. it's like they keep repeating the same thing over and over again. i don't hear them saying less to this or let's do this or work with democrats. it's just border, border, border every day. now the people, all they hear is that. that's all they say. host: in west virginia, republican line, good morning. caller: good morning.

i would just like to say that i'm 70 years old [inaudible] the border is a mess and people [inaudible] that's all i have to say. host: let's talk to bob next in washington state, independent. caller: yeah, so you can pronounce it, the town is clayellum,, washington. i just wanted to interject the idea of the people that as far as the whole impeachment thing, if everyone went under

impeachment and they had to answer for what they've done in their lives, they might think a little different. people need to reflect on their lives and how they think. in my soul there? host: yes, you are. guest: i wanted to reflect that my oldest brother was the head of the attorney general's office that investigated campaigns and contributions, he once said to me that he had to discern what was opinion and what was fact. i don't know if that helps. host: all right, take a look at

the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell who was on the senate or yesterday. he was reacting to the resignation of the you pen president liz mcgill. [video clip] >> of course, ivy league administrators lack a form of clarity is not a recent development. for more than two months now, universities across the country have been engaged in embarrassing public cycle of equivocation's and apologies. four years, elite institutions have sheltered despicable anti-semites under the guise of academic freedom and let them poison a generation of young minds with hateful postmodern theologies. especially alarming of the testimony last week was just so brazenly their cynical embrace

of free speech contradicted their response to suppose it slides against leftist orthodoxy. these are hardly bastions of free speech. the ivy league enforcement of restrictions against a laundry list of wrong thinking and micro-aggressions would make sensors and sean hannity blush. -- in pyongyang blush. host: good morning, al, democratic line caller: i want to say a few things i don't have any problem the board reform being attached to these bills if that's what the republicans want area they are only going to want something else. they are not there to solve the problem or help america. they're just trying to keep confusion and chaos during the

biden administration. it seems like they are scared to death. it's a whole smear campaign that the trump people are running. the mexicans are coming to tell them, the muslims are coming to attack them and the flexor coming to move next door to you. everything they see, that's what they use. somebody should do something about it as far as trying to realize and make sure that the truth is being told. in my still there? host: yes, you are. guest: like the other person who called in with a whole lot of stuff and saying stuff, there is no truth in it how does he know if he only listens to fox news. i wonder how many of the people like the house speaker, how many of them served in the army or

put something on the line in this country? it seems they are willing to mortgage everything we stand for. we walked away from turkey just because of the same administration and now we are going to walk away from another democracy, you rain. i'm a veteran there has to be more of us than them but i'm not hearing them. i here with the administration is doing. you mean to tell me that while we had a president, no one saw that hunter biden did wrong under the obama administration? his whole administration was under a microscope. host: let's go to new york city, independent, good morning area caller: yes, good morning and

thanks for taking my call. ukraine is fighting for freedom, for peace and civilization itself. this is our fight. the brave heroes there are fighting our fight. russia is by far the largest country but it never seems to have enough. use murder, torture, destruction and theft and it's going. dish and keeps going. ukraine is not russia and russia needs to get out. if they won't go willingly, they must be thrown out. in conclusion, i think we should do all we can and speed it up. it is ukrainian lives every hour of every day. host: fight, barbara. we are going to pause here. if you are on the line, stay with us. we will get back to your calls shortly. we are joined now by energy reporter for politico, zach coleman. guest: thanks for having me.

host: you are in dubai. we are talking about the climate summit. there was a bit of a disappointment about what came out of cup 28 -- cop28. guest: very few people were happy last night when the draft text was released. there was a lot of expectation that we would have some language about when the world should phase out or down fossil fuels. those words do not appear as many would have thought in the text. a lot of countries, like pacific island nations whose livelihoods depend on us getting on top of climate change, vocally denounced the text. americans as well. john kerry, the u.s. climate envoy for president biden, says this is not enough. we are going to come back here for the next many hours, even days to hash out the final text

that everybody can somehow sell back home. host: why did that happen? why did the fossil fuel phaseout get taken out? guest: it was always going to be a tough play. the reason is nearly 200 countries have equal say in this process. saudi arabia, along with several other countries, have taken the position that we cannot be asked to get rid of something that is important to our economy when we are not at the same stage of development as the united states and european union, who got rich off of exploiting those same fossil fuels. there is a really big development in justice angle here. a lot of countries that have gas and oil riches want to enjoy the same sort of wealth other countries have been able to enjoy. really, the onus is on rich countries to start reducing their missions, since they are the ones that caused the majority of the warming we are experiencing today. host: you are in dubai, which is

where the summit is being held. it is a major oil producer. is that typical? guest: it is not typical to host it at a major oil-producing country, but it is not the first time it has happened. qatar has also hosted a cop. next year we will be coming to us about jean, which has an oil-dependent economy. it is not typical, but it has happened. host: what were the u.s.'s priorities going into this summit, and can they point to any wins for the climate? guest: we haven't really gotten yet to the final outcome, so it is hard to exactly say what would be a win, however there was an agreement early in the cop to finalize a framework for payments to countries that have suffered irreversible climate laws. that is a win for the cop in

general. it is difficult for the u.s., because that includes funding from congress that is hard to come by. the u.s. has played a role in driving forward some vision rhetorically on reducing fossil fuels, but, again, we are not at a stage yet where we can see who has won white, because we are still negotiating the outcome. host: what about china? did they participate? has been their cooperation, the challenges? guest: china has often taken the position of staying back a little bit. a lot of this gets hashed out in bilateral meetings that we don't often have access to as journalists, but we do know that there are conversations happening. the most significant event for this climate conference happened weeks before, where the u.s. and china put out a joint statement that sort of laid out their rules of the road for cooperating on climate together, and that included some concessions that china made to start accounting for non-carbon

dioxide emissions in their next national climate plan that would cover their 10 year strategy that is due in two years. there was also an agreement to reduce reliance on coal-fired power. china uses most of it of anywhere in the world and it is the number one cause of climate change in the world. he definitely see negotiation between those two powers and that can often set the framework for where a lot of this broader conversation can go with other countries. host: you have written that several republican members of congress were at the summit. what was their message? guest: their message was that innovation is something the u.s. has to offer other countries, that u.s. natural gas is something we should promote and sell abroad to help other countries decarbonize and resist fuel supplies from rivals like russia. and that nuclear technology or technologies that are still not yet mature, like carbon capture,

or going to be important going forward. that latter idea has earned some embraced among science circles, but the republicans did not necessarily engage with the idea that the number one cause of climate change is fossil fuel production and the surest way to reduce emissions is to reduce fossil fuel use. host: zach coleman, politico's climate and energy reporter. safe travels back. guest: thanks for having me. host: it is open for him. we are taking your calls for another 10 minutes or so. sharon is up next in middletown, delaware. republican. caller: good morning. i have a couple of quick points if i could. what joe biden has done with the corruption in his family does matter as far as our foreign policy is concerned, which is in shambles. absolute shambles. he knew his esalen had a drug problem. why was he flying him all over the world on air force to to

make all of these deals? that is one question. as far as the investigations and their meeting tomorrow, i think we should. we should also definitely do that because we absolutely should get to the bottom of all of it. if you don't have anything to hide then why not? as well as january 6. bring all of the tapes in, which the democrats do not want to see happen, and i think that will tell a whole different story. about what happened on january 6. and our foreign policy with china, russia, ukraine, iran, he has enabled iran to do what they are doing right now, and god bless our military because they are sitting ducks. this is really scary. we have already lost 13, and as far as the border goes that also matters. and try talking to the mother that just lost her 16-year-old daughter from macron illegal from honduras. so, the border does matter. they want to get as many people

in here as possible. you have christopher wray, who i am not a fan of his, and you have him saying there is blinking lights everywhere and there is still 12,000 a day coming through here, we are going to wake up and it is not going to be a pretty picture and i do worry for this country. host: got, sharon. a couple of programming notes. today at 10:00 a.m., right after this program, the house rules committee will need to consider the impeachment inquiry and to president biden onllegations of him profiting from the business deangs of his esalen, hunter. this comes tee months after an initial inquiry began. the full house is now expected to vote next week on a resolution to allow the inquiry to continue by giving committees increased authority to obtain certain documents and testimony. you can watch the house rules committee live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span now, which is our free video app, or online at

c-span.org. house comes in at 10:00 a.m., so we will have that coverage here on c-span. also, a look at the rise in organized crime on retail stores with federal law enforcement officials, industry executives, and policy acted -- and policy advocates. that is live at 2:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. also on c-span now, the video app, and online at c-span.org. it is open for them. we will talk to joel next in idaho. independents line. caller: good morning. c-span misses the boat a little bit when they fail to educate. on the constitutional republic versus democracy issue. 2000 years ago plato and aristotle went through this argument, and it is good to research that.

the only true democracy that we have in the u.s. is the election of senators, local politicians in the states. in other words, one person gets one vote. we don't have that in congress. we have a constitutional republic, and that poor army veteran who is wasting his stomach lining shutting about the difference should really research a little bit. on another note i think that ukraine is going to become biden's afghanistan. why isn't the european union more united in suppressing putin ? anyway, have a good day. host: joel, what do you mean by becoming biden's afghanistan? there are no troops in ukraine, american troops. caller: no, not yet. what i would refer you to the book called "the afghanistan papers," and what a failed for

policy we had over there. host: got it. caller: all of the generals were in lockstep and i just cry when i see these poor veterans with missing -- with missing limbs. host: aaron is in decatur. democrat. good morning. are you there? in georgia? armando, san antonio, texas, independent line. caller: morning. host: morning. go right ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call, young lady. want to know, we have to help ukraine. definitely. you know, we've got to help those people. they are fighting for their country. get everybody together. he is a hell of a president.

let's kick russia out of ukraine. we can do it. thank you. host: all right. noise, bronx, new york. democrat. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: i'm doing great. caller: everybody is losing it. want to say, jesus was a jew, born in bethlehem, and baptized by john the baptist. i don't know why people are putting everything before him, but i'm just going to say that. host: ok. and david in virginia, independent line. david? caller: yes, good morning. how are you doing this morning? host: good, how are you, david? caller: i'm fine. thanks for taking my call. just a couple of questions or comments.

in israel i think we are 100% right to back israel. i do believe that biden has it right, even though i didn't vote for him in this particular case. support of israel, the only democracy in the middle east, is the right thing to do. though i do wonder, we are getting bases attacked, mostly by rebels in yemen. and in syria and iraq. my question is, why do we still have basis in syria and iraq? are those countries allowing us to stay there or are we staying there because we have military might? thank you. host: all right. that will do it for open forum for today's washington journal, up next we've got washington post intelligence reporter shane harris to discuss his work on the new pbs frontline documentary called "the discord

leaks." it is about the leak of highly classified pentagon documents on that platform and how it happens. we will be right back. ♪ >> traveling over the holidays? c-span's shelf podcast part of your playlist. and to all of c-span's podcast that featured nonfiction books in one place. c-span bookshelf features episodes with authors discussing history, biographies, current events, and culture our signature program about books. listen to c-span's book shelf podcast feed this holiday season. you can find it and all of our podcast on the c-span now video app come or wherever you get your podcasts. and on our website, c-span.org/podcast. ♪

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our podcasts on our c-span now app. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work. get informed, straight from the source, on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span. powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined by national security reporter for the washington post shane harris. also the reporter for the discord leaks. welcome to the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: tell us how this partnership between you at the washington post and pbs

frontline came together. guest: in april my colleague and i broke a story about where these leaks were coming from print in the spring of this year 's classified intelligence documents started popping up inexplicably all over the internet, and u.s. officials were caught by surprise trying to figure out where they came from. so we set out to do that and figure out who is the ultimate source of that and obtain many of those documents. after we wrote our first stories we got in touch with frontline and said, essentially, this fall like a good opportunity to go deeper on this story and really tell it as a documentary, an addition to the print stories we have done. sam and i became correspondence in the film and worked with two tremendous directors over there for the past six months. the result is what we will see tonight. host: tonight is at 10:00 eastern on your pbs station. who is jack? tell us about him. guest: he is 21 years old. he was a technician in the air

national guard in massachusetts. he worked at otis air force base , or air national guard base i should say. an intelligence officer that was basically responsible for doing things like processing drone footage and satellite imagery from various conflicts or what the u.s. military is doing overseas. grew up in massachusetts. was fascinated in military history. a job in the military seemed well-suited for him. he was also interested in video games. this becomes a very important part of this fop -- this biography, because as he gets older and during the pandemic increasingly is spending a lot of his time, and most of his free time in some cases, on a gaming platform called discord, which is essentially a chat platform that lets people talk to each other while they are playing video games in real life. this is the place where he makes his close friends during the pandemic and ultimately start sharing with them last -- classified information he has

access to because of the facility where he works as a computer technician. so, we get into this in the film of the decisions that led him down this road of starting to share this classified information, but some buddy who by all accounts has a potentially bright future ahead of him in the military, where he was getting to satisfy his interests in military history and operations, as well as computers. host: so tell us, what led him down that path and how many documents did he end up sharing? guest: it is a surprising turn of events. i have to say my career, this was unique to me. i'm used to individuals who have access to information sharing it with the press because they think there is some government wrongdoing or they want to expose malfeasance as they see it. he was sharing this information ultimately because he wanted to impress his friends, which sounds like a very strange thing to do, but from a really early age it seems that he had when i

described as a pedantic nature. he enjoyed knowing information and a trivia, and the arcane aspects of military history and operations, and sharing that with people. sometimes even lecturing them. friends we spoke to that played video games with him said he really insisted on calling the weapons people played within games by their actual technical names, and being very precise about this. so, someone for whom knowing things and information made him feel powerful. and then when the war in ukraine begins he is that she has made these very close friends on these discord servers, these chat rooms he is in, and he wants to start telling them about this massive event unfolding in the news. the way he does that is by sharing with them classified that all field assessments and updates he is able to get at work. now, he is not supposed to be reading these things. he is a computer technician. he is not an analyst. but he has a top-secret

clearance which lets him get into the files he is only supposed to be maintaining and keeping up. and he is taking this information, he is writing it down, in some cases taking it home and sharing it with his friends. honestly, to make himself feel important and big and strong, because they knew things he didn't. host: you able to talk with him? guest: no, he decline through his lawyers. he is awaiting trial on six felony counts. his family also declined to speak with us. host: as far as what is in the documents and how much of -- i guess how important there were two national security, what can you tell us? was it only about ukraine and battlefield assessments? guest: no. what makes these leaks so interesting is the breadth of them. it was about ukraine. there was information about north korea, china, other aspects of russia, parts of

latin america. we are talking the whole panoply of information that the u.s. intelligence is collecting on a daily basis. these intakes that come in in the form of bulletins, briefing slides. all information that is shared throughout the intelligence community for people who might need a further job, and he was able to go in and sampled us as he wanted to read it. we think he took at least several hundred documents, printed documents, and it is harder to count, but a larger body of information he wrote down as notes, and then typed into chat rooms almost verbatim in many cases, of reports he was reading. it is an astonishing amount, but the breadth of it is striking. and it is current. this is information that is up-to-the-minute intelligence reporting on events that were unfolding as he was describing them to people. host: if you would like to call in and ask our guest a question, you can do so on our lines by party. so, republicans, (202) 748-8001. (202) 748-8000 is the line for

democrats. and (202) 748-8002 is the line for independents. i guess the question is, why is the computer technician having access to this kind of information? guest: it is a great question. it surprises so many people. after the 9/11 attacks the intelligence community underwent this profound change and how it handled classified information. one of the reasons for the attacks was that so many intelligence agencies are not talking with one another about what they knew. the fbi did not know what the cia knew or what the nsa was collecting. after 9/11 they switched to what was called need to know, which is how you determined who got access to classified information. did you need to know it? what they call need to share. let's make this intelligence and make it broadly available to people who might need it in ways we cannot anticipate. the senior policymakers in

government. someone who has a top-secret security clearance like he did gets access to networks where all of that information is maintained. that is how he gets in and can see it. he is not supposed to be looking at it. he cannot help but encounter it because he is working on the computer systems and maintaining them and keeping them running. that is how someone at his very low level is able to get access to information that people at much higher levels can get that need to see it. host: want to ask you about the process for him getting that top-secret clearance. he had some things happen in his past that reasonable people might call it flags. i'm going to play a clip for you real quick of his former girlfriend talking about what the military might find in that investigation for the security clearance. >> was a little bit worried they were going to in their interview bring up, we found this discord account, or this discord server. at that time he did become less

active in discord, and he was very worried about keeping the things he was doing private and safe. >> what was he specifically worried that the background investigation might turn up with regards to discord? >> there was a lot of, like, racist talk on that server. there was a lot of talk of killing atf agents, killing different government officials, committing acts of terrorism. things that are probably not great for someone in the military to be saying. so i think that is probably what he was worried about. host: that is kind of an understatement. guest: it is. early, this server these kids were hanging out in was rife with racist jokes, anti-semitic comments, pictures of gore. the kinds of things many of these kids, to be charitable to

them, were saying this to get a rise out of people. i think some of them believe that and i think teixeira is among them. i think, why are you spending so much time saying these things? why are you joking about making threats to kill atf agents? what is this hostility you are showing toward the u.s. government that we now want to join by military service? and what is important to note here is that background investigators never see this part of his online life, because when you go through the process of getting a security clearance you are not required to disclose your social media activity, accounts like discord where you may have a presence. go and investigate an interview people in your real life, your neighbors, your friends, maybe your coworkers. jack takes sarah -- jack, those were his contacts and associates. the background investigators never interview people like

that. host: any indication that because of this case they might start looking at people's online life? guest: it is possible. we are seeing from the defense department that they need to tighten up securing information. what we have seen in the past day or so is an air force extractor general report come out into these particular leaks that faulted the security clearance process and said there was negative information, as they called it, that came up in the course of this background investigation that was never shared with the supervisors at his unit where he worked in massachusetts. the inspector general concluded that had they done that people there, supervisors they are, likely would have put him under closer scrutiny. and when he did start looking at classified information might say, hold on, this kid also has other red flags in his past. maybe we need to take more aggressive action about what he is doing. host: how about the platform itself, discord?

i guess once they realized he was sharing classified documents, why didn't they take it down? guest: ultimately they didn't know he was sharing them. the way discord is set up, the analogy their executive uses is, discord is like a city, and every one of these servers is kind of like a house. it is a place the individual sets up, and that person decides who comes in, who gets kicked out. it is an invitation-only architecture. this place, the company discord is not actually monitor what is going on inside that house. they don't have security cameras or listening devices. that is a choice the company has made. it is not a technological obstacle they cannot overcome. they could monitor them if they wanted to, but they have made a choice to value user privacy and give people spaces where they are not being monitored. this has become an issue for them, though, because discord has become a hotbed where extremists and other radical groups organize because they

know they are not being monitored by the company, and it is easier for them to share the kind of rhetoric that teixeira and his friends work, or to do things in real life. host: we have another clip from the documentary. this is the vice president of trust for discord defending the platform. >> the unite the right rally was a challenging moment for discord. i was not part of the company at the time, but it was the impetus for discord to build a trust and safety team. we have 150 million people using discord every month. right? it is billions of interactions during so, the scale of this challenge is immense. >> the company has defended itself in the wake of the intelligence leaks and ongoing problems with extremism, saying they represent isolated bad actors on a platform designed for privacy and community. >> we have taken the stance that

a lot of these spaces are like text messaging your friends and your loved ones, and it is inappropriate for us to violate people's privacy. we don't have the level of precision to do so when it comes to detection. to me, this is, we are a city. we have all of these people who are trying to find friends in their city, and they're going and playing sports, right? they might be gaming. they might be studying together. in any city you are going to have problematic pockets. host: and that is discord. how long did it take for the fbi, once they started seeing these documents come up on the web, how long did it take them to find out who it was an arrest teixeira? guest: that part did not take long. the documents were proliferating

out of this discord server for about five weeks before the pentagon notice. and they did they alerted the fbi. it really only took fbi agent about a week to find jack teixeira. they chased him to his discord cap. they were able to go to the company and say, we need you to give us information. people we talked to credited discord with responding very quickly to the fbi. once they understood what was going on on the platform, which nobody understood well it was happening. that is a pretty remarkable amount of time. usually people who leaked classified information, they are not discovered. the issue here was that prior to that arrest there was no practical way for discord -- and they talk about this in the film -- to understand their were classified documents moving through their system. don't scan for that. as they said, we wouldn't even know how to begin to scan for classified documents unless somebody tells us, this is when

a classified document looks like. host: is there any indication of what the impact was to national security because of those document leaks? guest: the fallout was significant in a number of ways. probably most so that it really exposed, particularly through the ukraine war intelligence reporting, that privately u.s. officials had a very dim view of the likelihood of success of the counteroffensive in ukraine which is playing out right now. in fact, president zelenskyy is coming to washington this week because support is waiting for this war in ukraine because so many lawmakers feel it is not going the direction that the u.s. hoped. the documents show that u.s. officials essentially knew this was likely to be the outcome publicly they work much more optimistic and bullish about the prospects. there were real strains between the u.s. and our allies, because it exposed so much information that the u.s. is monitoring communications of its allies.

there was some information in the documents that we simply chose not to publish because it was far too specific about individual sources, in some cases human sources, spies passing information to the u.s. or their allies, that if it had been made public, perceivable he those persons lives could have been in danger. a lot of sensitive information, and when we reported on it we took steps to make sure we were talking to the government about exactly what we were preparing to report what was in these documents and making decisions when we felt it was necessary to withhold information. host: let's talk to viewers. tim is calling from asheboro, north carolina. caller: good morning. i was in the army security agency in the 1960's. and i was given my clearance to the fbi. there seems to be a lack of

training for these low ranking individuals on what will happen if they leaked classified information. i was scared to death of spending a long time in fort leavenworth. and it was literally years before i would discuss what i did. and i would like to know, who is doing the clearance now? the fbi interview people at my home. and even back then if you had been a member of some obscure group that may have had connections with the communist party, that could keep you from getting a clearance. host: all right, tim. guest: tim is putting his finger on the problem here, which is

that the air force spoke to this. they investigated these leaks and what happened. what they found was confusion even among the people who had security clearances about what they were and were not allowed to look at. it is not clear if this is an isolated incident, but i have to think that particularly as hundreds of thousands of people have been given clearances, some of them are looking at having a clearance as some all access pass to look at intelligence. that is not what it is. a clearance-holder still has to have a reason to look at information. as tim put it, having that fear of under -- fear of understanding that if you leak these things you are going to get into trouble. it is fascinating is that teixeira -- and we can see this in text messages -- understood that what he was doing was illegal. he knew what the stakes were and he was not supposed to be doing it, and he did it anyway. he was caught at work four times

looking a classified information and warned to stop, and he didn't. his case might be quite extreme in that regard. as somebody who didn't know what he was supposed to be doing. i wonder, though, if the permissive nature of the office in which he worked, in which there were not coming down harder on him, put the idea in his mind that no one was going to catch him doing this. host: and ray is calling from aurora, colorado. independent. caller: good morning. hope you all have a good morning. looking forward to watching the documentary tonight. i am affiliated with the libertarian party. and i also happen to be an avid discord user. mainly to keep track with twitch streamers, who are nowhere near the right. take many of them have progressivism, although i am also following the national liver charity -- national libertarian party.

because of this leak, one of the prospects for the federal government to engage in surveillance along the levels of what was revealed about 10 years ago from the nsa revelations? guest: yeah, i think it is probably unlikely that the federal government is going to start doing any kind of mass surveillance of discord. it would be pretty hard for them to do that. a lot of the spaces are closed off. they are not public. it is not easy to see into them the way the government can look at social media, because it is public and they can see what is up there. i don't think we are expecting any major changes on how the government monitors social media because of these leaks. what i think you are more likely to see is changes internally to the kinds of questions they start asking in background checks about the social media presence of people who are

applying to get a security clearance. host: echoes anddows says something similar. oh my god, you really want believe they didn't know about his online presence? the pentagon is a joke. most employers search employee'' backgrounds. guest: this is something we found pretty surprising, frankly, and it was a real blind spot for background investigators. because you are not required to disclose your social media history, there is not necessarily anything for them to go on. had they decided to go on social media and look for, may be public things he had tweeted or posted on other public sites, that would not get investigators to the inside of the servers on discord he was a member of, where all of these problematic activities work occurring. host: alexandria, virginia. independent line. caller: i wanted to talk about how, you know, with anybody who

leaks information, it is almost a guarantee that they are going to be blackballed or information is going to be used against them to discredit them. especially with the julian assange case, any something is leaked about the government they somehow make this person terrible. you know, we found, x, y, z, but really what the matter is, is in the case of ukraine we provided them all of these weapons to push back russia and essentially nothing is happening. they are, you know, a sickly has been a standstill this whole time. and we just sacrificed a bunch of lies. so, somebody leaking stuff from the pentagon in discord, you know, yeah. i don't know. guest: i think i understand.

anytime there is a leak there is always the question about the motivations of the leaker, how they did what they did, and of course the information they reveal. we should emphasize that jack teixeira did not give this information to journalists, right? he gave it to people and it got out to those people. some of those who gave it to journalists as well. jack teixeira is not a leaker in the way that julian assange is, where he deliberately put this information out hoping it will go public. he is not a whistleblower. but the information was of intense public interest. it did reveal that officials understood how bleak the prospects were for counteroffensive by ukraine, which is the country we are giving weapons. so, it is always an interesting aspect of these cases where the caller is exactly right. the information will come out, and it will be of public interest, but there is always the question about the leaker

and this person's motivation. this was different because teixeira is not the leaker. that is one of the things that makes this a fascinating story. ho: this is what mike in rockford, illinois has texted us. why does it feel like the computer technician is a fall guy and not the actual leaker? guest: in this case, again, it is teixeira who is alleged to put the documents on discord, where other people distributed them. we should keep in mind how the sequence went. another way of looking at that question might be, why is there so much focused on teixeira and not the people supposed to be monitoring them in the air force ? already we have seen a tremendous reaction by the air force, and punishing 15 people who worked with him. host: i wanted to show this article here on the washington post. the air force disciplines 15 people in discord leaks investigation. those 15 were enlisted.

mlb wrote this to us on x. it was announc last night that are actions taken against litary commanders. theyevere enough to warrant more caution from these officers in the future? so, who is being disciplined, and is it enough? guest: the number you cite is 15. that is pretty big in terms of the number of people who would've had awareness of what he was doing. and importantly, a colonel who was the commander of the hundred second intelligence wing, he was relieved of his command. that is a pretty serious punishment. there have been other forms of disciplinary action taken. we are waiting on information for some of the specifics there. i have to imagine that this case is going to be pretty chilling for a lot of other people in similar positions and roles of responsibility. it might be harder for someone like a jack teixeira in the future to look at classified information to be reprimanded

repeatedly, as he was. their bosses might now say, maybe i should pull him off the line and do something. this military wants to send a message by doing this. at the same time, we still have this dynamic where hundreds of thousands of people with security clearances have access to information. they could potentially steal that information in ways that are not so obvious as the way jack teixeira did, or maybe they find ways to circumvent those procedures. it would be a mistake for the military to presume that by punishing these 15 people and relieving the commander that they have solved that bigger problem. host: we think the whole system needs to be reformed? guest: there are real questions about whether or not too many people have access to classified information and whether an intelligence agency can effectively put -- effectively police all of their activity. the air force found that teixeira working night shift, with effectively no supervision.

that seems an easier problem you can correct. but when we are talking about people's level and above, having the ability to go into computer systems, look at things, possibly print them out, it is very hard to imagine how you police all of that activity when so many people have access to the system. host: it is not a simple answer, one forward, how is something like this avoided? guest: one potential way, if you take teixeira's case, look at the obvious avenues for reform. i think that looking at a security clearance applicant's life, to include their connections, is something the military and intelligence committee are going to have to consider. he might not have obtained a security clearance. there is going to have to be some hard looking at whether or not there are too many people

with security clearances, or can you use technology to give gated access to someone like teixeira. if he was in the system, could the computers say, you are not supposed to be reading this stuff, it appears that you are. you are supposed to be maintaining the computer, not looking at the contents. experts we talked to said there was technology available that could more accurately police that kind of access which would probably go a long way to preventing a leak like this in the future. host: what is the timeline here? you mentioned that teixeira is in prison, awaiting trial. when is that expected to happen? guest: it is not clear. his lawyers are going to the process of discovery of evidence, with the prosecution. it takes a long time, because there are classified documents. they have to get security clearances, lawyers. it is normally the same process former president trump is going through in the mar-a-lago documents case. he is charged under the same statute as teixeira, one of

them. there is this process of all of the lawyers seeing the evidence that takes a lot of time. it would not surprise me if this case goes forward in 2025. it could take that long. in many of these cases the defendant will often seek a plea agreement with the government after they have seen all of the evidence. host: let's talk to jeff in massachusetts, independent line. caller: hi there. this is jeff. i have a question, or comment, i guess. with cable and everything else the fcc is supposed to presumably control the content, or at least make some guidelines on what the content might be. or how they conduct their business. curious as to whether the fcc has any control over a new website or these secret houses

or whatever you want to call it, either or not they have any control on how they conduct their business and what guidelines they can conduct their business by. and attempt to, you know, prevent these types of problems. if you could comment, please. guest: it is a great question. the answer is no, they really don't. we are talking about companies that are not regulated like service providers. they are not the phone company. this is an internet company. there are laws about decency and child pornography and things that canning cannot be distributed, kind of categories of material. but as a whole the internet is not something the fcc regulates, and discord would fall into that category. host: there is a text here from lee in asheville, north carolina. he says, regarding this piece by shane harris, it is unconscionable that the psychiatric evaluation not

disclose t individual's need to impress. thank you for such a wonderful program and to those behind the scenes. guest: this is another great question. i cannot speak to what any psychological assessment has shown, because we have not been able to see the full record of his investigation. the washington post has father will -- has filed a lawsuit to get that from the defense department. i think with the writer is putting their finger on is in order to really understand and appreciate the full risk that someone poses, a background investigation needs to capture many dimensions of that person's life. not just the parts they want you to see. had they been able to dig more into this discord connection and talk to those friends, they might have surfaced them of these pedantic characteristics of him, of this need to feel important. it is not a guarantee, but they would have had a much fuller picture of jack teixeira is had

they talked to the friends he spent so much of his time with. host: you have your reporting here in the washington post. it is called the discord leaks explained. it is extensive information about everything that happened, and you have been working on this for a long time. what surprised you the most over the course of your investigation? guest: i don't have kids, so i cannot speak to the way young people are spending their time online right now. so, i learned a lot about how teenagers are interacting with each other and the relationships they are forming. what really impressed me is that for so many of them these relationships they are forming with people they have never met are as meaningful and real to them as a real-life relationship. have to say i came away thinking that they were not correct about that. that there is something about a real, in-person relationship that you cannot replicate in a technological space.

i came away concerned about what technology is doing to distort young people's ideas about what relationships are and what real communication is, and what is and is not appropriate. that was a revelation for me, as somebody who does not spend a lot of time around young people. myself as a journalist, i am online all the time. i can understand from that perspective as far as these spaces and how they use them, i was surprised that they do not grasp the degree to which they were missing out on human contact. some of them, it is interesting, have gone to a change after this and have now come at the other end of this experience recognizing they need real-life friends, and the time they were spending on discord was leading them to make some bad decisions. host: was he living by himself or with his parents? guest: he was living with his mother and stepfather. he had a tight family network,

as far as we can see, and a strong support system. and was living in the town he grew up. host: jim is in west virginia, democrat. morning. caller: good morning. i had a couple of questions. i was in another room doing some things and i did not get to hear all of this gentleman was explained. it is interesting. there is two things i wanted to ask related to if he could answer them and maybe explain some to me and to the public about. that is, that situation that happened that young lady named reality winter, she was a former military person, an intelligence specialist. when she got out of the military she went to work for a defense contractor, maybe in georgia. guest: that is right. caller: she had access to this top-secret information, a report that revealed how much russia penetrated multiple states'

voting registration systems when they were trying to help trump win in 2016. but, of course trump and jeff sessions, his then-attorney general, slammed her in jail pretty quick. i think she served five years. it is an interesting story. if you could tell us about that and maybe some relevance to this teixeira fella. i will take mansour off the line. i might not have heard you describe when i was in the other room, listening to what you were saying, but did it turn out, from what they looked at and had to investigate with this teixeira boy, did he end up inadvertently, like you are saying, thinking, these people are all great. did he end up inadvertently, as it turned out many of the people he considered to be, just, you know, you know what i'm saying,

legitimate friends, did they then turn out to be foreign agents? host: right, jim. guest: those are great questions. reality winter was working as a contractor and had access to classified information, and since some of that to journalists because she felt there was important information they needed to know and that the public needed to know about russian interference in the election. reality winner fits the profile of a whistleblower who says, i'm going to share this information. it is illegal to do it, but i'm doing it in what i think is a larger public interest. there is a long tradition of that happening in government and journalism as well. teixeira is a bit different, because he was sharing the information with a small group of friends. in some cases a much larger group, people he didn't know. not with the intention of it ending up in a newspaper.

he has a different kind of motivation there, which is why he is not a whistleblower in that sense. to the question you asked about whether there were four nationals in the group, our reporting says, yes, there were. and the government prosecutors have pointed this out in some of their filings in this case to say that, you know, one of the things you are told when you are not sharing classified -- told not to share classified information, is do not do that because he could fall into the hands of a foreign adversary. if he is sharing information with people overseas, some of whom may have been in ukraine or eastern europe, that raises the risk that that information could be obtained by a foreign government. i think from the prosecution standpoint, that magnifies the severity of what he was doing when he was sharing those secrets. host: along those lines, lucinda asks, can this person be charged with treason? guest: i don't think so. treason makes a very specific

crime, provisions in the constitution. sometimes people use treason as a catchall for what they mean as a betrayal of an out, which in this case that is what he is being charged by. he signed a nondisclosure agreement and made a commitment not to disclose classified information, and he is being prosecuted for that crime. host: is there a generational knowledge gap leaving open weak spots? what is the age group or user profile of a discord user? guest: i think there is a big potential knowledge gap when it comes to generations. part of that responsibility rests on the defense department, who conducted the background check, which did not fully appreciate that this man's life was more represented by his online contacts than his off-line contacts. should have been looking at the online world. that a generation of people have moved so much of their life to online communication, and the background checks are missing that.

typically a discord profile, i'm not sure about ages, but it skews younger. it is popular with video gamers. it was developed as a platform to allow people to play multiplayer video games together in real-time, so that when you are looking at the screen and you see other friends you are playing with, you can that has traditionally been the main profile of a typical discord user. host: what role did his family have in helping him get his job? guest: his stepfather worked in that wing. we didn't find any information about what that relationship would have done favorably for him but he did go up in a family with a lot of military service.

the background investigation would have taken note of the fact that he had family in the military. host: micsays discord is a private server and not culpable for the content that has been distributed. it's like a mainstream fortune. --4 chan. guest: in the sense that the company is not monitoring what is going on in the servers. they made a decision to not look inside what is going on in those chat rooms. host: the documentary is called the discord weeks with the washington reporter shane harris. we take you to live coverage of the house.