rare. but friends do not have to be. when you are connected, you are not alone. >> coxupports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers. giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up on "washington journal" "washington journal" this christmas morning, your calls and comments live. we continue our series with author cal thomas and his book, a watchman in the night. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is monday, december 25. merry christmas. our question for you this morning is, what role do you

think religion should play in politics and public life? we want to hear from you. go ahead and start calling in now. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zone, your number is (202) 748-8001. you can send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you live. you can find us on facebook.com/c-span and on x @cspanwj. new house speaker mike johnson has really made religion a central role of his political career. i want to read to you a little bit from an article in the hill from last month that talks aut

speaker johnson's political philosophy and his thohts on the separation of church and state. here is an excerpt from that article. it says, johnson argued that "faith, our deep religious heritage and tradition, is a big part of what it means to be an american" in his comments tuesday. he further argued that "morality must be kept among americans so that we have accountability." here is more of his quote. "that is why i think we need more of that, not in establishment of any national religion but we need everyone's expression of faith because it is such an important rt of who we are as a nation." that is some comments from speaker mike johnson. let's also hear him. we are going to roll some video.

this is speaker mike johnson, a republican from louisiana. he appears on cnbc's squawk box earlier this month and was asked about the separation of church and state. these are more of his comets on the separation of church and state, as well as him talking about praying on the house floor. [video clip] >> you have talked quite publicly about faith in your life. i think it was the first day you had been sworn in, it appeared that you were praying on the floor of congress with a number of other congressman. there was a question about the separation of church and state. we often talk on this show about folks about whether religion should play a role inside a company, whether people should be allowed to pray inside a company. it is one thing to pray outside and to have your faith and there is great importance and that. how do you think about that and the public perception of that?

>> listen, faith, our deep religious tradition is a big part of what it means to be an american. the founders wanted a vibrant section of faith because they believed a general, moral and consensus virtue was necessary so we created a government by and for the people. we do not have a king in charge. we have to keep morality amongst us so we have accountability. the separation of church and state is a misnomer. people misunderstand it. it comes from a phrase in a letter jefferson wrote. what he was explaining is, they did not want the government to encroach upon the church, not that they did not want suppose of faith to have influence on our public life. washington said, of all of our disposition and habits, religion and morality are indispensable. they knew it would be important

to maintain our system. that is why i think we need more of that. not in establishment of any national religion, but we need everyone's expression of faith because it is so important to who we are as a nation. host: that was house speaker mike johnson speaking on cnbc's squawk box last month about his views on religion and the role they play in his own political life, as well as the role he thinks religion should play in politics. our question is for you this morning. what role do you think religion should play in politics and personal life? give us a ring. if you are in the central or eastern time zones, the number is (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zone, call us at (202) 748-8001. you can send us a text message. (202) 748-8003. we are ready to take your calls on this christmas morning.

let's start with stephen ormond beach, florida. steve, what is your answer to this morning question? caller: as far as religion and politics go, we have talked about what the founding fathers intended. i do not think they intended for big religion to be having so much money in the political system. it started back in the 1980's with all these televangelists on tv, the moral majority and all of these televangelists that would come on tv and make a token reference to jesus and launch into their political tirade. right now, you will hear politicians who will come on and declare their religion because

they want the big religion, they want that money base and that voting base. i do not think that it is real. i guess my other point is, if someone who is a major leader in any given religion comes up and declares a political party, they should lose their 5013 c. host: all right, steve, i appreciate your call this morning. let's hear from richard in vienna, ohio. go ahead, richard. caller: i am a vietnam veteran. i do not believe in church and state together. i believe it has to be separated, because certain religions argue back and forth. there should not be church and

state. it has to be separated. that way, you are going to see the actual beings to get things done. host: all right, richard, thanks for your call and thanks for your service. next, ernestine in oakland, california. go ahead, ernestine. caller: good morning. i just wanted to repeat or confirm the same thing the other gentleman said. i believe that church and state should be separate. i think it is important that as a country, we have morals and values, but our religious -- people came here to escape religious persecution, but i think because we have so many diverse religions and some of them have separate belief systems than others, or their

requirements are different, this country is to diverse to try to force that on one person. i think that politics, you can be a moral person but it should not come into your political viewpoint. and, try to enforce it on the rest of the country. thank you. host: all right, ernestine. our next caller is in yuma, arizona. paul is on the line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: that little clip you just played of our new speaker of the house who talks about morality and how it is so important in his life. i just had to sit here and laugh. he backs donald trump, who lacks morals completely? the guy does not have a moral bone in his body. i mean, just check out all of the women he has accosted over his lifetime. and we probably do not know half of them. he did have teenage years, and i

bet you his papa paid off a lot of families during that time. that guy. johnson is leading us down a path of theocracy. do we want to be another iran? that is all i have got. thank you. host: alrighty. let's go to naples, florida. joe is on the line. caller: good morning and merry christmas. host: merry christmas. caller: thank you. i think that the separation of church and state in the constitution was not designed to keep religion out of government. it was designed to keep government out of religion. our religion gives us our moral compass. it tells us right from wrong. we need to inject that right and wrong into the government, so that we have a moral government.

now, in reference to morality, if you are an immoral society, you cannot be free. you must be ruled. over 50% of the people in this country right now do not believe in god. that is why they have no sense of right and wrong. that is why we are going to lose our freedom if we do not carry out our beliefs through our daily life, and not do things that are wrong and continue to stick up for what is right. that is all. have a good christmas. host: thanks, joe. i want to pause and read something from representative jared huffman, a democrat from california. he identifies as a secular humanist. he says he is one of the only, if not the only, current member of congress who is not

affiliated with an organized religion of some sort. most members of congress are christian, probably the next biggest religion in congress is judaism. jared huffman is nonreligious. he identifies as a secular humanist. this is something that he wrote as part of an article that was published by roll call. it says, "there are all kindsf universal values that we ought to be workinther on. u can just read the attitudes where it breaks down is this tortured culture war that becomes a religious war for many of these guys. any time you sta ting to impose your religion on others, through the law and through our public institutions, that is just a redline and there is no room for compromise on that." that is representative jared huffman of california. i do want to read, while we wait

for more of your calls -- i will remind you of the phone lines, eastern or central time zones, your number is (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your number is (202) 748-8001. you can also send us that text message, (202) 748-8003. on our question today, which is, what role should religion play in politics and public life? we are already getting some responses to our question on facebook, so i will read a few responses. mike hermon writes, none, zero, the same as any other fictional belief. what should believe in the rebel alliance play in actual life? it is pretend, made up. derek friday rights, white christian nationalism does not have everyone's interest.

catherine shock writes, none at all. if you want to worship, worship, but did not force your beliefs on anyone. it is called separation of church and state. look at all of the wars that happened in the name of religion. i will read one more. shannon willis says, none. spiritual beliefs are personal. i also want to quickly read because there have been a couple callers that mentioned the separation of church and state. one caller said the constitution was meant not to keep religion out of government, but to keep government out of religion. let's read the first amendment of the constitution, just to remind us all a quick civics lesson. the finute reads, "congress should make no law reecng an establishment of religion or primping the fr exercise thereof, or abridging

the freedom of speech or of the press, or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." again, that is the first amendment. we want to hear from you. the question, what role should religion play in politics and public life? eastern or central region, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. we will hear now from derek in indianapolis. go ahead, derek. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: so, your question is very interesting because primarily, if this is a society where there is separation of church and state, then your question is a little bit

complicated. first of all, i mean, the reality of the situation is, church does not want government in it and church should not be in government. but, individuals who subscribe to what they believe can't come to government and not believe what -- and leave their beliefs at home. they are going to bring them with them. it is just like i say, a leopard cannot change its spots. so, now you have politicians who believe that, what they believe with regards to freedom of speech, freedom of religion and additionally, they have the right to impose those beliefs on other individuals. aman does not know what -- a man

does not know what it is like to give birth to a child. how should he have any right to tell a woman what she should do with her body? you should not. but, it is legislated now. the supreme court has weighed in. and that is the reason why people look at this country and say that you are full of you know what, because you talk out of both sides of your mouth. it is a reality, the fact of the united states and part of the reason why we are losing our respect around the world because on one side of the corner, you are democratic, but on the other seida of the coin, you are religiously -- other side of the coin, you are religiously forcing your beliefs down other people's throats. host: all right, we appreciate your call this morning. let's go to canton, ohio now. harold, what are your thoughts? caller: politics and religion

always makes. in a time where you have people deducting the amount of money they donate to churches, you have politics involved in religion. there is no religion in this country, because people do not believe in. otherwise, the money they donate to churches, they would not write it off as a tax deduction. host: all right, harold, appreciate your call this morning. let's go to edward now in reno, nevada. edward, your thoughts? caller: yeah, people been dying over religion for thousands of years. it is not going to change.

the world is in so much turmoil at this point. it is very, very sad. it should not be like this on christmas day, because jesus was born on this day. host: all right, edward. we appreciate your call this morning. david -- dave, i am sorry, in georgia. you are on. caller: when christopher columbus came to this country, he did not say, i am coming to this country to look for jesus. he said, i am coming to this country to look for gold. also, i just want to say this, you folks like mike johnson. the last guy said himself, the second this country was founded on christianity, you are a

question, you support donald trump and in the next breath. we do not have to go about what trump did. i will say this, though. if i had a chance to if i had a chance to with trump and mike davis, i would take a chance with the devil because at least with the devil, i know where the devil stands. the devil is the devil 24/7. these guys are the devil. they pretend to be somebody else. i would like to say, if they want a good example of a country not separated by religion like one other caller says, just check out iran. how is that working out? that is it. host: all right, dave. janice is next in thibodeau, louisiana. caller: hello.

jesus and all religious leaders who -- leaders throughout history taught respect and care. respect and care, which is the answer to world peace. thank you. host: all right, janice. before we go back to the phone lines, i want to bring up some more tweets. these are additional tweets from members of congress on the issue of religion. starting off with congressman greg steube, he is a repub from florida. this is a tweet in october, shortly after mikson -- around the time mike johnson was becomiaker. this is e wrote. he says, "in january, rep mike johnson joined me on the house floor while in a deadlock over who our next speaker would be.

we lifted up the speakers raced to the lord an a asked for his divine guidance. immediately after the p 14 members changed their vote, ultimatelyuring the gavel by the the day. mike johnson is a strong conservative but is a strong christian. he is not afraid to look to his faith for guidance. america needs that more than ever in the u.s. house. i look forward to voting for mike johnson as our next speaker. again, that was a tweet from representative greg steube, a republican from florida. here is one from representative jamie raskin, he is a democrat from maryland. he is jewish. here is what raskin wrote. this is the same day of representative stu beast tweet back around the time speaker mike johnson was becoming speaker. he wrote, speaker mike johnson,

anti-choice, and typ lgbtq, anti-gun safety, anti-democracy. this is what theocracy looks like. again, that is jamie raskin, a democrat from maryland. but, our question is for you this morning, what role do you think politics should -- what role do you think religion should play in politics and public life? if you are in the eastern or central time zone, we want you to call us, (202) 748-8000. mountain or pacific, call us at (202) 748-8001. you can send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. our next caller is beth in florida. go ahead, beth. caller: good morning. i would like to know how many people who have studied other religions other than their own. i was lucky enough to be brought up in a christian religion, in a

particular sect of christian belief. when i went to college, i went with a deep understanding of the teachings of my parents and my grandparents, but i went and studied philosophy and religion. my major was in psychology, but i had enough credits in philosophy and religion to almost have a degree in that, also. i have been lucky enough to have friends of various religions. i have been to their churches, their temples. i have been to other christian religions other than the one i was brought up in, from the

jehovah's witnesses, i had a friend that took me to church with her. i was brought up in baptist religion, but it was very much different from the religion of the churches i had to attend because i did not live where the sect of my mother's religion was taught, which was primitive baptist. their beliefs are quite different from the southern baptists or any others. i have had friends that were jewish, and i have been to temple with them. i have been lucky enough to work with a young man that was muslim. he invited me to a dinner that they had on one of their holy days, because he respected my respect for his religion. i studied buddhist religions.

indian religions. pagan religions. but, one of the first things that i was taught when i took lots of by the first professor i had, it was a great, great, man was if you got people together from all religions, no matter what their beliefs were, that they could come together in a room and they could agree on the majority of things. my personal belief is that difference in religions is not god's word, or the god that you believe in, or think you believe in that is different from some other religions god. it is that they all come together and can agree on the majority of things as being god's will and the difference between the religions are man's will. host: all right, we appreciate your call this morning, your

insight. we are going to go to jacksonville, florida. amy is on the line. caller: good morning. yeah, yeah, i feel that religion is -- because religion is not an evidence-based thing, that it basically has no place in politics. today is christmas and there are small children that believe in santa claus, but i would say the vast majority of us do not believe in santa claus. in the same way, many of us do not believe in a god. i used to be a question. i enjoyed listening to the previous callers experience. i used to be married to a minister. i have lived in received and

been in many different countries where there are many different religions. through those experiences, i feel that religion should be personal, that faith should be personal. in fact, the definition of faith is -- it just basically means that it is not factual, it is something that you believe in. so, i do not feel that we should take things that we believe personally, things that there is no evidence for, and put those things on other people. yeah, i feel that religion has been very damaging to the whole world. if you look at all of the problems in the world, a lot of them are based on religion and deeply held beliefs that people

hold that can cause them to do really bad things to other people. so, i think religion is dangerous. i do not feel like we need a god to be moral. in fact, i think if you need a look at the god in the bible, i feel like my own morality surpasses that of the god of the bible. i do not condone slavery as the god of the bible condones slavery. i do not condone genocide. i do not condone stoning people because they may have sex outside of marriage. i do not think we need to be taken back to the dark ages in our political life and have a theocracy. i am very much against religion in politics in our political life. host: all right, amy, thanks for

your call this morning. next up, we have wally in syracuse, new york. caller: this is a little confusing for me. i was going to answer your question, and i really think that government should stay out of religion. that is why it was written. i am hearing a lot of people talk about different religions. i am a firm believer in christianity. a lot of these people that are talking bad about their religion, i do not think know much about their religion. i would just keep the government out of religion. nobody has to make any laws to tell me what to believe. i am going to believe what i believe. what i believe, i would never

vote democrat. thank you. host: ok, wally. let's go to culver city, california now. fillmore on the line. caller: hi, merry christmas to you. yes, i want to lever it on the last three callers, which i agree, even though i am a christian. i am an african-american christian born in a devout christian household. i guarantee you i am going to die a christian, believing in jesus christ and the jesus of nazareth was christ. the confusion is, let me give you an example. i was born and raised in harlem so many years ago. i love this country. i love the premise in which the country was established on. i thought this was a christian

country. that is until i studied the word and understood what really got had. i want all of america to understand the confusion, what is really happening. the confusion happened because, what god wanted originally is there is a description in genesis. god wanted a creature that had the freedom to believe him by choice. so, all the creatures he had did not have choice. the one thing he wanted was for creatures to have a choice. god allowed the freedom to choose him and you have to have -- he established preachers have their own will. what we have to have is the freedom to choose, which means the freedom to choose, the

freedom to do right and the freedom to do wrong. god believes in freedom. we want our freedom. the argument at the beginning of this country is whether or not the potential of the country to have the freedom to have a religion or not. so, the whole argument was about the freedom to choose. you can't have a free country and have a country that demands that you follow god's word. we have got a country which 90% of the people in the country think that they can punish people for not believing in god. you can't. most of the times he got to punish somebody, he got to forgive them. it is not about punishing

people, it is offering people the opportunity to believe in jesus. host: i'm going to have to stop you there, but we appreciate your call this christmas morning. before we take more calls, i want to bring up, this is an article based on a survey conducted by the does a written news. the title says, how cynical are americans about religion and politics? i want to scroll down. this article is based on a survey. there are a lot of little charts showing some of the results from the survey. for example, one of the questions it asks is, how important is religion in your life? what i found a bit surprising is, all of the voters kind of scored religion highly from their personal lives. republicans, 71%. democrats, 66%.

independents said religion is either very or somewhat important in their lives. but, on a second question that says, how important is religion to who you vote for? that was different. republicans said 61%, religion was either very or somewhat important to who you vote for. democrats, it was 57%. independents was even lower at 46%. again, much higher on religion on their own lives compared to whether religion was important to who they voted for, especially among independent voters. the last question i will talk about before we go back to the phone lines, the question was, when most politicians talk about their religious beliefs, do you think they are being genuine, or

are they trying to win over voters? 31% of the poll respondents said they felt that politicians were being genuine. 69%, more than two thirds, said that they felt when politicians talk about their religious beliefs, they are mostly trying to win over voters. again, that is some polling from the desert news. also conducted a x poll about religion and cynicism. let's go back to the phone lines. leonard in south carolina, what are your thoughts this morning? caller: good morning. yes, religion is like politics. christ even warned against it. it is not religion, if you are trying to think of religion as faith. but, christ, all he wanted

people to do was to love one another and follow his message. so, religion is ruining the world, is religion as a politic or a way of doing things. so, we should just follow christ and have a merry christmas. i want to put in for kwanzaa. thank you. host: all right, thanks, leonard. stephen in connecticut. caller: yeah, i think religion has always played a role in american politics and i believe in the separation of church and state. just to throw a bible quote

related to policy, i am not relations -- religious but my favorite bible quote is matthew 25. for i was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. for i was hungry, you gave me something to eat. for i was a stranger and you invited me in. everyone, jesus was in bethlehem. nobody wanted to feed him, nobody wanted to give him a place to stay. mary had -- let's overlay that on policy. now, we have a border crisis. everybody wants to have an american state. we want to have rules. it is a humanitarian disaster. part of me says, yeah, let's bring these people in. other part of me sees, it is a disaster. so, i implore that the border

crisis is solved. that is my thoughts for today. merry christmas. host: all right, stephen. next, we have a.j. in honolulu, hawaii. ajay, you are on. caller: thank you, good morning, thank you for this wonderful program and for this wonderful subject. it is a very important subject in america. when the so-called pilgrim fathers came to this country from england, they were escaping the tierney of the entanglement of government and religion. they fled for their lives. we are now moving into something closer to that again. the speaker of the house, michael johnson, believes that the world was formed in one week. then, god rested on sunday or

saturday. he believes that the world is 6000 years old. this is the 21st century. there is still much of the world enslaved by mindless superstition. all religion is superstition. religion commonly leads to delusion, madness, often violence and even murder. i implore the listeners here today to this great program to try to free our minds. thank you very much. aloha. host: all right, david. aloha. go ahead, peter. peter? i think we lost peter. all right. a reminder, we are taking more of your calls on this morning's question, which is, what role should religion play in politics and public life? if you are in the eastern or

central time zone, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your number is (202) 748-8001. we will get some more of your calls -- to more of your calls in a moment. i'm going to read more responses we have received on facebook. steve baker writes, without religion, society collapses. there is that. whether we like it or not, america was built on christian values ga robbins writes, if true christians were in positions of leadership in the senate and congress, they would be getti things done. the problem is, people do not walk the walk and truly put god first in everything they do so the outcome is bitterness and greed at the hhest level. region is fine. the problem is when they become ideology.

once they become ideologies, everyone else is wrong and enemies. then, they become dangerous. christina writes, none. instead, they can be moral and ethical. you do not have to be religious to have integrity or morals. again, we want to hear more from you about wrought -- about what role you think religion should play in politics or personal life. i want to bring up more from pew research. here is a survey that the headline says, 45% of americans say u.s. should be a "christian nation." this is an article conducted by pew research, based on their polling. i want to scroll down to this chart. again, about adults in america. it says, more than four in 10

u.s. adults say the country should be a "christian nation" but far fewer want torches -- churches to endorse candidates or speak on politics. on the first half, the question is, do you think the founders of america originally intended for the u.s. to be a christian nation? 37% of respondents said no. 60% said yes. then when asked, do you think the u.s. should be a christian nation? 51% said no. 45% of respondents said yes. do you think the u.s. is now a christian nation? 54% said no. 33% said yes. then, they went on to ask, should supreme court justices bring their own religious views into how they decide major cases? 83% of respondents said no.

15% said yes. it says, should churches or other houses of worship endorse political candidates? 77% said no. 20% said yes. the last question, there were two answers. one is, should churches or houses of worship keep out of political matters? 67% said yes. or, should churches or other houses of worship express views on day today, social, political questions? 31% agreed with that. 67% said churches and other houses of worship should keep out of political matters. 31% said churches or other -- or other houses of worship should express views on social and political questions. that is based on pew research, but we want to go back to the phone lines to hear from you about what role should religion play in politics and public life. eastern and central time zones,

(202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. let's go to aurora, colorado, mike is on the line. caller: hi, i think a lot of americans do not consider morality. they look at their religion, mainly christianity, to tell them we are all sinners. and to tell them to forgive them of their sins. they wash their hands of it and go about their lives. a lot of the times, leaving a wake of destruction. if jesus came back right now and saw america funding genocide in palestine, this country's origin -- host: appreciate your call. next up is niecey in michigan. caller: good morning and happy

holidays to you. a lot of people do not understand that there is 4000 regions in the world. if many people come from around the world to the united states, religion should not be forced on anyone. it should be voluntary, because you have buddhism, what are you going to do with those people? we all are sinners and we are all going to die sinners. the most important part of religion is to love our sister and brother as god has loved us. but, when it is all said and done, if the republican party is so religious, why would they follow donald trump, who they claim is jesus? that is blasphemous. i would say this, i believe in god. but, i talk about god to other people, but i would not force my religion on other people.

i would let them accept god as they accept god, because god is love. thank you and have a blessed holiday. host: thank you. let's go to tom in philadelphia, pennsylvania. caller: good morning, merry christmas to everybody. i do not think you can really separate religion from politics, especially the country was founded on christian principles. if congress were to uphold these values, we would keep that going. as far as people saying that religious, trying to be forced on people, that does not happen in this country. people speak their minds and like to see other people embrace christianity and all, but i do not see any examples of anybody being forced into a religion

that they do not want to, especially in this country. other countries, yes. the last point i wanted to make is, one of your callers, her name was amy, saying religion caused a lot of problems in the world, yet there are some religious ideologies that create wars and things like that. you look at christianity in the united states, you've got christian schools, the charities throughout the world, all of the good things that happen as a result of the christian religion. so, i disagree with her on that fact, or on her opinion. host: alrighty. next up, john in florida. you are on, john. caller: merry christmas to everybody out there. the interesting lot of opinions, people are so caught up in the religion. religion is, for me, a great way

to keep the masses under control and give them something to do. if we did not have religion, it would be total chaos. people say we have chaos right now. different religions. the guy is right. america does not force people to choose a religion. do you think that a woman things that donald trump, the antichrist, is ridiculous. if donald trump were the antichrist, he would be in power. joe biden could very well possibly be -- we do not know what we are doing here. we just have to look to the greater good. people get sick, start to die. they turned a religion. they see the light. when people get older, they become more conservative. young people are more numeral. this is the way we go. without religion, we would not have another thing to hold us in check.

in america, sports is our religion. we hail the almighty sports figure. entertainers are religion. we are getting away from moral values. host: all right, appreciate your call this money. our next caller is frank in pennsylvania. caller: good morning and merry christmas. i just woke up and turned on "washington journal" like every morning. this is a big topic for me because i have actually called "washington journal" in the past, not on a holiday, with the complaint that too many times, the hosts or the producers "washington journal" of "washington journal" allow callers to mention their god. i have watched this show every morning because i like to hear about politics. i do not want to hear about people's gods or religions. i have actually requested that when we call, we are often given

instructions. i also feel that the callers should be told that you are not to mention your god or religion. this is a show about politics. that is too many times i hear the caller allowed to quote bible verses, or talk about their religion. it bothers me, because this is not a religious channel. just the fact that -- this is a silly thing. it is the people that have the argument that they want more religion in their politics. i wonder what they are going to do when a muslim becomes president and pushes his ideology. i wonder when christians are going to have a problem with that, because you know they will. of course, religion must remain out of politics. in god we trust must be removed

from our currency. it is a very frustrating topic for me. the people that want more religion in their politics, look what is going on overseas right now with hamas and judaism. they are all fighting over land that their imaginary friend promised them. the same thing can happen in this country. be careful -- religion is personal. to force it in public is absolutely horrendous. i wish you a wonderful day. host: all right, frank. let's hear from anthony now in baltimore, maryland. caller: good morning to you. i would first like to say thank you for coming in on your holiday morning to be with the people.

this show is very important to our opinion. the country that has always been a christian nation, has always been settled as a christian nation, but there is tolerance in maryland. it has always been tolerant since -- that spread out coast to coast and is written into the constitution. without that religious freedom, we would not have any freedom. hello? host: yes, we are here. thank you, anthony. caller: yeah, so. host: all right, tina. good morning. caller: to build on what anthony was saying, reverend samuel rutherford was in england in early 1600s, late 1500s, writing about the king, whether or not

we should have a king. he was making arguments and he put it in a book called the law and the prince, he was having an argument with the catholic priest -- cardinal, sorry. in that argument, scripture says we have an advocate to the father through jesus christ. we can self govern because we know god and we know his laws. with that, that was published in 1620. samuel rutherford was run out of england because the king got a hold of some of his pamphlets and wanted his head. he escaped by ship, came to america and publish these pamphlets, put it in that book, the law and the prints, for anybody interested, it is still available to read. all of his arguments come from the liberty given to us from jesus christ. thank you so much for the topic. host: all right, tina.

let's go to chadbourne, north carolina now. david is on the line. caller: good morning, merry christmas. the question is baffling to me in some ways. if i vote for a person, a politician, i want to know the history of that politician. i want to know what that politician's beliefs are in a religion. and, what that person thinks before i vote for that person. we have so many politicians now who say they are christian, muslim, whatever religion. they go into office and they vote for things that are against the values of what you think a christian value is and call themselves christians, call themselves muslim, different religions because there are

different religions. i do not see how you can separate religion from politics, because you do not vote for a person. i vote for a person who has got good morals, who does believe -- i am christian. i believe 100% in the lord and savior jesus christ. i think that those people that i vote for, i want them to have the same thought that i have. this country was founded in god we trust, on the money, on the things like that. this country has been blessed by god. men did not do this by themselves, god did this and he has blessed this country. i support people that are trying to keep god in our daily lives. i do not think it should be something that is fanatical by any means, but i think morally,

we need to have that in there somewhere. the figures that we have that are throughout the country, people tearing down statues, religious statues, i think that is something that his public life. thank you for your time. merry christmas. host: next in jacksonville beach, florida. you are on. caller: yes, thank you for your program. it is fantastic. i would like to take a little different stance here. first of all, i think we have to start with the question, what is life? well, if we do believe, even partially in evolution, we have to agree that it is really life and death, so it is birth and death. so, how does that start from the

one organism all the way to evolution and us? we have four things in common without life is not possible. the four things are birth, security, the membrane around the cell. the next thing is nutrition. without nutrition, we would not live. the next thing is community. without community, even for the one cell, we would not live. the fourth thing is reproduction. we all have that in common. the problem is, when the illusion brought man the ability to think, that is when the problem began. if you have two people, you can have peace. the minute you have three people, you have politics. the third person they not agree

with the second person. this now grows into family and to community and to cities and to countries. now, the religion was probably as we all know, all good intentions are paved, or rather, all roads are paved with good intentions. many of these dogmas was to perhaps make humanity, or rather, make civilization a better world. but, it missed. i have been an atheist since i was 16 years old. there is no relationship between morality and religion whatsoever. in my life's experience, the more religious anybody was and no matter what religion, the more problematic things became.

our forefathers were very well aware of the problems when you mix politics and religion, and created the only democracy of all the others in the world, which is superior. why? because they separated religion from politics. so, the words we use our our inventions, whether you talk about religion, whether you talk about god, whether you talk about morality, all of these words we

looks at fmer new york congressman george santos writes in politics to his removal from congress. watch book tv every sunday on c-span two and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at v.org. -- book tv.org. ♪ >> this week, book tv's afterwords is in prime time, a program where nonfiction authors are interviewed by journalists, legislators and more on their latest books. tonit at 8:00 p.m. eastern, cara fitzpatrick with her but, the death of public school, looking at the school to ace movement -- school choice movement. she is interviewed by -- watch afterwards all this week in prime time at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. go to c-span.org to get a

complete schedule. ♪ >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at

my column will be 40 years old next april and i am looking at culture and politics and using a standard to measure right from wrong, good from bad. these things touch on the economy, foreign policy, domestic policy. what i presume and what my

standard is for writing is there is objective truth. there are things that are always right and always wrong. if -- 1924, i look back in my column coming up thursday, 100 years, nothing has really changed. calvin coolidge reduced taxes and regulations and cut the size of government and produced an economic boom known as the roaring 1920's. we are still arguing over these things today. the amazing thing about it is, human nature never really changes. we are arguing about the same things we argued about 100 years ago. immigration, national debt, crime, so many things. we change our politicians, but we do not change the policies all that much. what my book does is both through 40 years of what has been happening in the last four decades of america and takes little snapshots of these events. it will be a reminder to some

people who lived through those years and i hope it will be an education to younger people who have not. host: to our viewers as we talk with cal about his book and about what he has seen in 50 years as a columnist, we want you to know you can call in. you can ask cal a question or share your own thoughts about politics. those numbers, if you are a republican, call us at (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. go ahead, start calling in now because we are going to get to your calls in a minute. cal, what was your approach to the book? i'm curious, how did you decide what columns, what issues, to include in the book as he reflected over your career? guest: it is a great question, tia.

i had to go back almost 4000 columns i have written. i picked out the ones that i thought were most significant. 9/11 was an obvious one. many other things, the economy, immigration. i put them together in little excerpts and comments, modern comments, on those various issues. one of the things that i am very proud about and try to maintain throughout my journalistic career is friends from all political persuasions. i was honored on johnson, who was then the publisher of the los angeles times, had opened the door for me to be a syndicated columnist in the introduction of the book. i have endorsements from skip gates of harvard that is friends with president obama and is more on the liberal side, all the way to mike huckabee, former governor of arkansas and the host of wheel of fortune.

i make friends on all sides, even though i have strong opinions i have tried hard not to denounce anybody for their personal views. host: before we get to the phone lines, i want to ask you. you write in your book how you approach writing your columns. i want to read an excerpt from that. you write, the goal of my column is to remind people that enable truth exists and to ask them to consider even recent history in which certain programs and policies such as tax cuts, moral boundaries contribute to the preservation of our liberties. football fields and basketball courts are designed boundaries. if the nation loses its boundaries, it will eventually cease to be. when i read that excerpt, i had a lot of questions. i guess i want to start out by, what do you mean by immutable

truths and why do you consider things like -- you talk about less government spending, tax cuts, fewer regulations, but you also put in there moral boundaries. can you just explain a little bit more about what you meant by that? guest: if you look at what is happening now in the country with a $33 trillion debt the open border problem where we are being flooded by people from all over the world. i saw 120 countries with no regulation at all. then you look at a nation as far as moral boundaries that have been exceeded. i remember something a late roman catholic bishop said. he asked the question how do you divine a football field, by his boundaries. this was 30 or 40 years ago. he said we are exceeding those

boundaries in personal relationships. people shacking up, having babies out of wedlock. the stb -- the std problem. millions of abortions. we seem to be living in an era where everything goes. gk chesterton says the danger men stop believing in god they believe in nothing. there has to be a standard. debt, open borders, lost of a shared moral value system. i argue we are facing all three of those simultaneously. the average age of great empires and nationstates, said the late british diplomat, is 250 years.

in 2026 america will be 250 years old. we are on a track where we will be greatly reduced as a nation. our enemies, vladimir putin and xi jinping, iran. host: let's go to the phone lines. if you are a republican in your number is (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. we want to take your questions or comments for syndicated columnist cal thomas. first up is gordon on the republican line. caller: if you would back to the

right man you wouldn't have to say all that stuff. there is a small voice in all of us and it is the holy spirit. you are a traitor to donald trump and you are on the list. guest: ic. donald trump is your god. i would be interested to see if you thought character mattered when bill clinton was exposed as being a reprobate or did you throw that aside to worship donald trump? host: that was an interesting first question for you. while we wait for more calls, what do you has been the most significant change in media and politics over your career or american culture in general? guest: certainly technology.

when i wanted to do research i had to go to a library and look up old newspapers on something called microfiche or encyclopaedia britannica. theo's -- the social media has been good in some respects. you have young people it is unfiltered and unobserved by people who we used to call editors. i am glad i have an editor who keeps me from making mistakes. there is so much going around you can tune into what you already believe and get reinforcement. i read everybody. i have liberal friends. i have columnist to take a different view. i am interested in the way they think.

we have all retreated into our little foxholes and we are calling each other names. we are tossing rhetorical bonds. abraham lincoln said we are not enemies, we are friends. we are doing a better job of destroying ourselves from within then our enemies are doing without. america is a unique experiment. if we do not sure up our basic fundamental values we will lose them. ronald reagan said we are only one generation away from losing it all. host: let's go back to the phone lines. carol in maryland is on the democratic line. caller: it is christmas morning and here we are in america. i have a problem with donald trump. this is my main thing. i just heard the guys say -- it

sounds like you are for donald trump. guest: no. caller: i have never seen such ridiculous in my life with a president. he was president for four years. if he was a successful president i think he would've won. the american people do not want him. he is tried to make the american people want him. he is failing up. i think you should just leave the thing. i do not thing the with colorado is right, i think if they are going down the right road. if he does run again i think he will lose. america, let donald trump run again and let joe biden beat him again like he will do. host: the polls -- guest: the

polls show democrats and republicans do not want a rematch of the last election by overwhelming numbers. this is very unusual. i am not a fan of donald trump and i am especially shocked that the evangelical christians who said morality matters in a president and who thought bill clinton was not qualified for the job because of his personal behavior excuse everything, the misogyny, the three divorces, the adultery, the comments about women that you can do anything you want if they are famous, a lot of evangelicals dismissed to that. that is a compromise that diminishes the authority and the attractiveness of their faith. a writer for atlantic magazine has just written a terrific book on this called "the kingdom, the power, and the glory." i am plugging my book but i am

plugging his. he spent years within the evangelical and conservative movement and he is one himself, but he has a chronicle of the things that are said and believed in these foxholes around the country. it is very shocking. i recommended. the scripture says there are two kingdoms. for a christian, for those celebrating christmas morning, one kingdom moves in one direction and the other is moving in another direction. when we confuse the two we dilute one. host: what did you think about that colorado supreme court ruling that temporarily removes donald trump from the republican primary ballot? guest: he has not been convicted of anything. we are supposed to have a system where you are innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your

peers. even gavin newsom has told whose lieutenant governor, do not proceed with trying to throw trump off the ballot in california. let the voters decide. i wish we had different choices. there was a piece in the wall street journal last week which basically blamed us, the voters, for the kind of leadership we get. we complain about it, but if we do not like them vote for somebody else. it is not complicated. host: let's go back to the phone lines. diane in arkansas, republican. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think you are correct. we have to have a immoral compass -- we have to have a moral compass, and we were founded on judeo-christian beliefs. these men and women are silent,

-- when good men and women are silent, people triumphs. when you choose a pop -- evil triumphs. when you try to choose a politician, you choose someone who represents your beliefs. a lot of times we find out later on -- we still try to choose someone that represents us and hope they will make laws that represent your beliefs and then they will be signed by the president or go back to the house and congress. that is the way our country has been run. we have great division in this country. we need to remember we are all americans.

there was a time in this country , my people who fought in wars for this country back to the revolutionary war, and i have read their stories. one common factor, they sacrificed, they sacrificed land, money, their lives, their freedom. nobody wants to sacrifice or even go to the polls to vote. they are selfish. they want to vote for what is good for them. host: i will stop you there because i want to let cal respond. caller: -- guest: that is a good point. we have just been through the

medicare supplement open season. there are four words, deserve, free, benefit, entitled. think about that. nothing about your personal responsibility, not about taking care of your body, not putting bad substances into your body, but what you will get from other people. i am a native washingtonian. i was born in d.c., i cannot help it. i've seen all of these close-ups from years. i have seen other people first to one that puts politicians first and their reelection first and what benefits they can get from government. that is why we have enormous growth. problems are never solved no matter who is in the white house because to solve a problem means you no longer have the issue. if you do not have the issue you did not have anything to run on. you look at this congress that has just been completed. it is said to be the least

productive ever. we know what needs to be fixed. social security and medicare need to be reformed. they will not fix the problem because they want to use the issue to perpetuate themselves in office. it is we the people who have to take the responsibility who have to start living according to standards that always worked in the past, taking personal responsibility and accountability. do not spend more than you need to. don't go into credit card debt, do not buy things you cannot afford, stay faithful to your spouse, have babies after you get married. these are concepts that afford very well for this country in the past. as long as you have politicians, every election over 90% of these politicians get reelected. when you expect them to stop doing what they are doing and start doing what promotes the general welfare, that is crazy.

host: let's go to minnesota, howard on the democratic line. caller: good morning and merry christmas. guest: and do you. caller: for the last six years i've been asking senators to look at the syrian refugee crisis because they have been in camps for 12 years. trump had a muslim ban for four years. president biden shuts the immigration numbers. i've not seen anything for the syrians. we are repeating the same mistake that charlie wilson warned us about with the afghan refugees. host: your thoughts? caller: this goes back -- guest: this goes back to 1972 when yasser arafat tried to overthrow king hussein of jordan. yasser arafat led a contingent of jordanians up to lebanon and

created these refugee camps, name them palestinians, and we have seen what happened since then. that sheer assad and his father are no friends to the west and no friends of humanity. under the obama administration president obama said a redline would be chemical weapons. he used them against his own people and nothing happened. i think the signal was sent back to osama bin laden, who said vietnam and america's quitting of that was an indication that america had no staying power and was saying the same thing. he did not think america is in it for the long haul as more republicans are opposed to continuing aid to ukraine. all of these things are connected, not just syria or lebanon. they are all connected by political or religious philosophy.

assad is not going to do anything about the syrian camps because they contain a lot of people who want to overthrow him. host: richard is calling from north carolina on the republican line. caller: i have a couple of questions. i have three questions. everybody is bad mouthing trump. the first thing is, did the democratic party and barack obama spy on president trump's campaign? host: i don't think there's any question about it. caller: how come nothing has been done about that, that is treason. second question is did they live about the russian dossier? host: of course. caller: how come nothing has been done about that? that is treasonous.

the next question. i forgot the next question but i will leave it at that. guest: happens to me all the time. the mind is the first thing to go and i forget what the second is. you are right. as a friend of mine says if the left did not have double standards they would have no standards at all. look at what the new york post did in outing hunter biden and the laptop. the rest of the media ignored it until they cannot ignore it more. this has been a problem. i do not mind republicans or conservatives getting criticism as long as it is applied equally to democrats and liberals. most of the media is slanted towards the left. they suppress things they do not like and encourage things they do like. you're quite right in your questions. host: we are going to go to

tommy in clinton, maryland on the independent line. more of your comments. host: hello, tommy. caller: good morning, mr. thomas. i want to commend you. everything you're saying is true . i want to make a point. obama, trump, and biden have been terrible for the country, as well as our congress and our senate. we will continue to go in the wrong direction. we are duplicating ourselves like the roman empire when they lead to destruction. i believe the 250 year rule of countries being at their supreme power. all the sudden they go through the same thing we are doing with moral decay, who they are, the fiber of what we stand for, we are moving ourselves from being godlike into destruction. i want to say thank you for all of the things you're saying and doing. host: don't hang up -- guest:

don't hang up. i want to ask you a question. you had a governor, larry hogan, who was loved by democrats and independents and republicans who did a tremendous job but now it is flipped back to a democratic governor and all democratic legislature. how does that happen when larry hogan has done such a tremendous job. why do you elect someone who followed the hogan model? not only in terms of policy but in terms of personal relationships? he is a nice guy and we could use more of those in politics, can't we? caller: i totally agree with you. i voted for the current democratic governor. from day one i've regretted it. i've not seen him do anything. the things he has done is controversial to what i believe. he has also done things he said he would not do. he has opened maryland up to all of his immigration, people just

coming in. you cannot even go to the grocery store or the malls without seeing people begging for money. i am fed up. it will not ever happen again. i'll be smarter about voting the next time. host: redemption in 2024. guest: -- redemption in 2024. host: you mentioned why a moderate republican did not win in maryland. i do not think wes moore's opponent was considered as moderate as larry hogan. let's look at the republican primary. those who are considered -- not even moderate -- but more even minded than president trump, former president trump, are struggling. he is the one who is waiting. as a republican, why do you think members of your party are less willing to nominate

moderates in the vein of larry hogan or a general election contest? guest: whatever they are paying you is too literal -- whatever they are paying you is too little. i am not a republican, i am a conservative. i am not a fan of the primary system. you are not old enough to remember the smoke-filled room days where politicians got together and chose the nominee they thought was most likely to win the presidency. the problem with the primary system is we get the most liberal or most conservative nominees. if we opened it up more -- the most rabid people vote in the primaries, far more than the general election. i would like to see a different way of doing this. maybe we could put together some kind of committee or organization with good people like former senator lieberman of

connecticut and people like larry hogan who can come up with a system that would appeal more to the broad interests of the american people. this system is not working. when you have polls showing a majority of democrats and republicans do not want either biden or trump, i think that is a demonstration of the problem we face. host: let's go back to the phone lines. before i do i want to remind our viewers of the numbers to call so you can have a chat, asks questions and share your comments on politics with syndicated columnist cal thomas. the number if you are republican, (202) 748-8001. if you're a democrat, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002.

we would like to get to as many of your calls as possible. next up is ken in michigan on the republican line. caller: merry christmas. guest: merry christmas. caller: i enjoy listening to you. i think you're one of the best people they have had on in a long time. guest: very kind. caller: my comment -- a little while ago they took my comment about the media pushing these narratives. i listen to c-span and i get ideas. i have listened to black callers -- i am a truck driver so i have these books i listen to and they are from black authors getting different ideas and everything else. how can we change this -- people

get this idea in their head they have to vote for this party instead of picking up a book and reading something. i have learned so much from fdr in woodrow wilson and lbj were such racists and they have given these people these victim status like you mentioned a while ago. it makes me angry because they should be reading about these people, not voting for them because of the color of their skin, because they are republican or democrat. they should be saying this person believes in this and this person believes in that. i was in the military, i am 66 years old. i am a truck driver. if i had to go against biden and trump, i am sick of both of them. the only reason i would say trump's because he gets in

china's face. other than that, i do not have any use for both of them. that is my comment. i appreciate what you're saying and i am going to go read some of your books. guest: you very much. let me address the african-american part of your question. younger african-american voters are more predisposed to republican candidates. part of this, not all of it is they did not live through the civil rights movement, they did not live through jim crow and all of these other things. they are noticing the opposition by democrats to school choice. on december 31, the school choice program in illinois in which 9000 low income students are enrolled in their parents love that program is expiring because the democratic governor and democratic legislature will not renew it.

school choice is sweeping the country. 37 states have one form of education savings accounts or school choice where the money follows the child and the parent wherever they want their kid to go to school, including a better public school. a lot of african-americans are awakening to this. donald trump in 2016 spoke to an african-american audience and said why are you still voting for democrats. host: let's go to north dakota. rick on the democrat line. caller: merry christmas. i have a question about the supreme court. clarence thomas and his wife,

any thoughts on those people? i will hang up. guest: that is a general question. i have not seen justice thomas in a while. i have met ginny thomas. there are certain double standards. you hattie elena kagan who had somebody selling her books. i do not have the details at the moment. was clearly something that would have brought into question certain ethical things about the court but the media ignored that. i do think if you are a republican or a conservative the standards are different for you. my rule of thumb has been do not do anything or say anything that would wind up on the front page of the new york times or the washington post. i think you have to be careful with that. the language you use and the

party you engage in. i think it has to be applied equally across the board. how you come to a job that pays around 100 $75,000 a year based on whether you're in the senate or house leadership and you leave as a multimillionaire or become a multimillionaire. how does that happen? they do not want to investigate each other because they have stuff on you. you do not involve yourself with the other person. after a while it gets so egregious like a senator from new jersey taking parts from egypt. you have this george santos guy from new york who has been

kicked out. ethical standards have been good . people trust the standards they have and if they do not it contributes to the cynicism they have sweeping the country. good question. host: let's go to athens, georgia. independent line. caller: good morning. can you hear me. dear lord, thank you for blessing us with the opportunity to live these lives in jesus's name we pray. merry christmas. i love c-span immensely. brian lamb, congratulations on 25 years on both tv and c-span (202) 748-8001. -- and c-span2. cal thomas, thank you. number one, trump-vivek ramaswamy 2024.

that ticket can be reversed if it needs to be. guest: because you can pronounce his name? caller: just try to be articulate as i can. number two, the invasion of the southern border is turning the citizenry into a third world mockery by the liberal democratic agenda. number three, the election interference on display, the attack on trump serves two purposes aside from stopping the will of the people. the number one purpose is to induce the citizenry into an artificial civil war. number two, for the citizens to stand down and do nothing. number three, which leads to my question for you. great interview, i am so excited. both of these allow the globalist agenda to stand up and take root. you've had a great appearance on c-span today.

i am enthralled and excited. i am an advocate for the american people. is there such a thing as globalism? is there a globalist agenda from what you have seen as last 40 years as a watchman protecting and commenting on the effects of this wonderful beautiful country called america? thank you so much. i will take my answer off the air unless you have questions for me. guest: i would like to know if you're available to be hired as my pr agent, i appreciate all of the kind words. there is always an attempt at globalism from the league of nations in the early 20th century, which woodrow wilson thought would solve the problems of the world, world war i. united nations out of world war ii, the european economic union, what you just saw in the climate summit, where all of these

nations agreed to reduce their carbon footprint, but not the major polluters, china and india. stop eating meat, although meat was on the menu, which i found was interesting. so many of these people flew in on private jets. there has always been a tendency, is a secular worldview, that if we just get the organization principles right that we will have peace on earth and goodwill towards men. it does not work that way. there are people in the 30's and 40's who thought the soviet union was a great organization, a way to organize government. you had people like the journalist saying stalin's labor camps were so good at reforming people that people were lined up to get in. you had others praising mao zedong. the media and academia and in

some cases even ministers were signing off on this as a great way to organize people so we would stop killing each other and doing bad things. we are looking in all the wrong places. that is not where the solutions are. if the solutions were in the way we organized ourselves, things would have improved, but they seem to be getting worse. you mentioned the border. i would like some reporter to ask secretary mayorkas where the president himself, what is the goal of having it open border? anyone with eyes can see can see it is not secure. you have known terrorists who have been caught. how many of got away? we don't know. why is the border open. why are people of taken an oath to uphold the constitution and preserve, protect, and defend this country not being held accountable for doing the

opposite? i would like a reporter to ask the questions. host: are you in favor of building a wall at the southern border? guest: i think walls work. we have seen it in other places. good people build walls and bad people build walls. the bad people being the berlin wall. for a time the wall and israel worked in avoiding off the terrorists until they got drones and other methods of flying in over it. we have to stop this. we are bleeding to death. we cannot sustain this level of illegal immigration. the new york post had a story that people in new york are going door-to-door begging for money and food and clothing. democratic mayors and governors are screaming with the administration to do something because they can no longer sustain this flow of immigrants. they are putting some of these camps in playgrounds, denying

the children who are legal citizens the opportunity to play on the playground. this cannot continue. if you pour water into a cup of coffee, the water will be diluted. if you pour water long enough, the coffee will be replaced. we are a nation of immigrants. legal and orderly immigrants, to be assimilated properly, to be brought in legally, to be made fully american, to speak english , to embrace our constitution and our values. that is not what is happening at what used to be our southern border. host: let's go back to the phone lines. on the republican line, lloyd is calling from iowa. caller: what i would like to get some answers come israel in this latest business they've got with this invasion at their southern border.

i was going to ask if we were going to be involved militarily. we already are. you recall in 1967 uss liberty was attacked by aircraft and motor torpedo boats. that attack went on for hours. they knew they were attacking americans and that was an american ship and an american flag. here is what i want to get state from you. if we get involved militarily in a more substantial role, how can we ensure that will not happen again? guest: the middle east has been a cauldron long before israel was reestablished by the united nations in 1948. the palestinians were offered a two state solution then and they rejected it in favor of war. if you look at the comments by iran and other islamic clergy

around the countries and organizations, they have stated openly, they do not make it a secret, that they are for eliminating the israeli state and the leader of hamas has said he wants to go beyond that and kill all the juice in the world. why wouldn't we take them seriously? -- why wouldn't we -- and kill all the jews in the world. why wouldn't we take them seriously? i cannot get into the liberty thing. i cannot get into all of the conspiracy theories. we need to take a look at who the real enemies are. when you have people publishing textbooks throughout the muslim world that call for the destruction of the "evil jews" and other things you have to take them seriously. we in the west make a mistake

when we transpose our majority to those who do not share it. we think if we do certain things that will mollify those who want to destroy israel and us. i want to give you munich in 1939 to see how that worked out. host: next up is dale in riverdale, maryland, democrat line. caller: mr. thomas, how are you today? guest: i am better than i deserve. caller: happy christmas to you. -- guest: happy christmas to you. caller: i'm am a big c-span follower and this is christmas day and i'm a bit sad that i am not being inspired. you have great credentials, you speak like a jack rabbit, you talk up a storm, but for my money, it seems you sound like

an uninformed rich white guy -- no offense. guest: why would i be offended at that? how might uninformed? you do not agree with me so i am uninformed. caller: if you let me talk i will tell you. to begin with, your comment about the roaring 1920's, needed elected to point out that contributed directly to the great depression. guest: not really. that was franklin's roosevelt's policies that followed. we had a recession that turned into a depression because of the roosevelt administration policies but go ahead. caller: thank you. i will keep it short. most everything you said in the last half-hour is so incorrect -- regulations.

he realized that trump deregulated over 100 things, a couple hundred things and they were listed on the internet. i looked at every one of them. not one of those deregulations helped the common man. everyone was to help big business. these details, you are glossing over the reality of life. i understand. i'm not trying to make you feel bad. i am said you're so fluid and you're making people think things that are not true. guest: unlike people of the opposition party. truth for many people is subjective. i think that is one of the problems in our culture.

we do not observe objective truth anymore. do you think the national debt is good? you think it open border is good? you think drag queen storytime is good? i don't. you think it is a good thing to have babies out of wedlock? i don't. i do not think that is glossing over everything. i think i have the sociological evidence and historical evidence to prove these things do not promote the general welfare. we can disagree on things and respectfully, but we should have agreeable facts. the problem is we cannot agree on facts. that is the problem. a republican can save one plus one is two and a democrat will say according to who? it does not work if you do not begin with the believe there is a standard you can argue over what the standard is, but we have abandon the notion

standards exist for fear of offending people. look at what the three presidents of the ivy league universities said. it depends on the context if somebody says they hate jews. if you hate jews it does not depend on the context, that is a bad thing, it is wrong. why can't we say that? host: i want to follow-up on what the caller was saying. you mentioned drag queens a couple of times. i will use that as an example. explain in your thoughts, why is that problematic? you mentioned reading hours where a drag queen might read to children at a library. why is that in example of morality crumbling for our country not living up to its standards? guest: we have too many children being pushed through the education system who are below

average in reading who are way behind the chinese in other nations in math who are being taught a skewed view of american history. we have these groups, the sexual orientation groups, these sitting in the minds of parents showing up for school board meetings after discovering what their children were being taught, teaching things that would not help a child develop the knowledge he or she needs to lead a successful life. we are seeing that all over the country with school boards being challenged, people realize what is being taught in schools. my friends on the left say you are trying to ban books. i'm not trying to ban anything. i am saying that parents have the ultimate right, not the

state, to determine what goes into a child's mind just as they do when they're feeding them meals. if we are not graduating people from high school and then university who can compete with the coming ai and with the chinese who are stealing our secrets and knowledge. we will be in further decline as a nation. you can believe or teach these things on your own to your kids if you want, but let's get them back up to proficiency in math and reading, which ought to be the starting point for every education system. host: let's go back to the phone lines. lewis in new jersey. independent line. caller: good morning, mr. thomas. guest: good morning.

caller: i have been reading your stuff for a while. a few things you said -- abortion. obama could have done it is first term, biden could have done it but it is never going to happen because if they do not have abortion they have nothing. i will ask you a question. what did trump do so wrong in his first -- when he was president? what did he do wrong? guest: there is a columnist for the washington examiner named quinn hilliard who just a couple of weeks ago did a column listing all of the things trump promised to do, starting with building the entire wall and making mexico pay for it that he did not do. it was a great column. people need to move beyond the anger and the personality

clashes and look. no president can do everything that he or she wants to do. that is why we have three branches of government, checks and balances. a lot of politicians make these promises and congress will not allow it and they cannot get legislation through. i once had lunch with ronald reagan and he told me he will frequently kill in order and see it for us -- he will frequently give an order and see a frustrated several levels down the bureaucracy. that is not a bad thing depending on your policy but we have to make up our minds as voters and americans what we want out of our country. the great line from jack kennedy that is often quoted but not embraced. "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." we cannot be passive recipients of government programs. democracy requires an investment

by all of us. you cannot get in shape by watching an exercise video. you have to go to the gym. democracy and a constitutional republic are not the natural order of humankind. if they were we would have more around the world. these values, this constitution, these principles have to be renewed by every generation or we risk losing them. i feel like i just made a presidential announcement speech. host: would you ever run for office? guest: i would run from office. i like what i do. somebody said if you're unsure of your background run for office and your opponent will point it out. when i was growing up in washington we had great party-givers who would invite republicans and democrats and other people, sports figures, and they get to know each other over the triple -- over the shrimp bowl. nobody does that anymore.

if you are seen having a meal with someone from the other party people will take a picture and use it against your campaign. you cannot sustain a country with that kind of attitude. we need to have more friendships. the great bub beckel and i were great friends. he was a liberal democrat. we wrote a column -- a common ground pony for usa today for 10 years. at the end of the day i would say bob is not on the others, both of our dads were in world war ii, they were not fighting porter against franklin roosevelt, they were fighting to preserve an ideal. america has always been an idea in search of the ideal. we have failed but we have dusted ourselves off and started over again. we have plenty of enemies on the outside who want to destroy us. why are we doing their job for them on the inside? host: let's go back to the phone lines.

on the republican line lasses calling from dodge city, kansas. caller: how are you doing? guest: happy christmas to you. caller: i do not know if you have ever been out here. i am in the country where wyatt earp and doc holliday lived. guest: i have seen the movie. caller: we get lots of tourists. we like it out here. some people call this flyover country but we like it that way. we get to see you forever and ever out here. my question is, have you ever interviewed mark levine? guest: i have known mark for a long time. wonderful guy. terrific author. he has a new book. he always has a new book. he publishes more books than i publish columns. i watch his show when i can and i've heard his radio show. he is a good guide. caller: he makes a lot of sense.

i thought he would've changed your mind on some of this stuff about trump because he is for trump. guest: that's all right. he can be for trump, this is america, you can be for whoever you want. i think trump did some good things during his four years in office, but i think his corrosive personality, his name-calling, we do not need that. he did not need to diminish people by calling them names. it does not advance policy or solve a problem. his attitude towards women is offensive to me is the husband of a woman-- i do not want to sn my family exposed to that kind of thing. jfk said we can do better. he is not god. he is not the only one. we need a new generation. kennedy said a new generation.

there are people who believe in policies that trump believed in that do not have his baggage. who knows what will happen in these upcoming trials. what happens if he gets convicted for a felony and is sentenced to prison? so much will happen in 2024. it will be great for me as a writer but not great for the country. host: from dallas, texas, jonathan calling on the democratic line. caller: what happened to the cowboys-dolphins game last night? it was a heartbreaker. but thank you for taking my call. i am from texas and am democratic i do have some conservative viewpoints like on the border. you brought up a good point, which is -- and i am just talking about donald trump -- when you have a leader of the

free world and you are -- the way he treated women, the gentleman has had so much baggage, has done a lot of destruction. the moral fabric of the country has broken down under the trump administration. you have people who are almost cultlike. the matter what he does or says, it is acceptable. it is not acceptable. in america, you have the right to say what you want to say, but is it always right? is it offending somebody? the fact of the matter is you cannot mix morality. my wife is filipina. we teach our kids to respect everybody, respect differences and different cultures. what we are seeing is a breakdown in the moral fabric. you spoke about -- he spoke about women despairingly when he

was running. under inciting his wealth so -- under insulating his wealth so he could get more bank loans. it goes on and on. we cannot have a leader in the white house with this type of baggage. thank you for taking my call. guest: i agree with much of what you say but let me address the idea that we cannot legislate morality. if that were the case, we would have no civil rights legislation. we would have no legislation regarding burglary or murder or any number of other things that speak to a moral code and purpose. the opposite of not legislating morality is legislating immorality. first, you have to have a definition of morality and immorality. personal behavior, with the

exception of assault and rape and things of that nature, traces are left to people along with the consequences. -- choices are left to people along with the consequences. but we passed laws. james madison said, "if men were angels, we would not need government." but men are not angels. thomas jefferson said to secure our rights, governments are instituted amongst men. why is that necessary? because we are not angels. you have to control behavior. otherwise, it is anarchy. our time is just about up. some tremendous questions. i appreciate it. host: we appreciate you joining us this morning. cindy rated -- syndicated columnist cal thomas, whose book is called “a watchman in the night."

thank you again for joining us. guest: thank you and merry christmas. host: we will take a quick break. when we come back, we will go back to our question that started out this show -- what role do you think religion should play in politics and public life? start calling in now. eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. we will get to your calls right after the break. ♪ >> american history tv, saturday on c-span two, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. 5:45 p.m. eastern, a look at robert oppenheimer, father of

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wherever you get your podcast. and on our website, c-span.org/podcasts. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan. every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are going to return to our question of the day, which is what role should religion play in politics and public life? we want to hear from you. start calling in now. eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain pacific, (202) 748-8001 .

before we get to some of your calls, if i want to read some of the latest polling from the des moines register. that is of course in iowa,' it says that donald trump holds a commanding lead. this is the des moines register polling. typically not just caucus-goers, but evangelical voters, it shows trump is up &% -- 7% then in october. ron desantis is at 26%, nikki haley at 12% and vivek ramaswamy at 5%. that is polling from the des moines register of caucus-goers in iowa.

as we talked about politics and religion, i wanted to bring up one more question that the des moines register asks. it was asking about trump's views, this is former president donald trump who does lead in the poll -- it says three in four likely caucus-goers say donald trump's views to strike the right balance. 71% say he is neither too conservative nor too moderate but just about right. 18% say he's too conservative. 7% say he is moderate. this is polling from the des moines register in iowa, with its first in the nation caucuses coming up in a couple of weeks. but our question is for you -- what role do you think religion should pay -- play in politics and public life? eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000.

mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. to take your calls, starting with marjorie in alexandria, virginia. marjorie, are you there? i and when to go to howard. howard in south berry, north carolina. are you on? caller: yes. host: hold on for a second. we did get marjorie back. hold on one second. caller: emily on? thank you. this cal still there? host: cal thomas has finished with us and is enjoying his christmas. but if you want to talk about the role of religion in politics

and public life, we would love to hear it. caller: i wanted to bring up mostly with him the subject of abortion. i think that is one of the things that is because our culture to be degraded. can you hear me? i think it also encourages irresponsible and undisciplined behavior. i just hate to see every time -- every baby is a unique human being. an unredeemable human being. for that reason, i think people need to consider that when they speak of abortion. i get upset when i hear lovely young women speaking about, "my rights, my body." it is not their body. it is another body. i would appreciate it if

religion would speak out stronger about that. but i think c-span is wonderful. host: now we are ready to go to you, howard. howard in north carolina. caller: good morning. merry christmas to everyone. as far as politics and religion, i do not think they should mix. there is a lot of influence now. evangelicals -- i have never seen that word in my holy king james version of the bible. i do not know where they get that. far religion, look at the pope and the catholics. what are catholic priests doing? they are reaping little boys use ago, but it is ok with the evangelicals. then they say that abortion is wrong. reaping homeboys is wrong, but they do not say anything -- repaint little boys is one --

raping little boys is wrong with it or not say anything. and trump is irredeemable, but there is no wrong in trump. as follows as politics, -- as far as politics, they should take the religious tax-exempt from the church. then it is ok, but as far as religion and politics do not match, even joe would pose -- evangelicals are part of the party. the proud boys, the insurrectionists, the neo-nazis, and the kkk. they have the same belief. they want to take rights away from kids. what old white man and 80 or 70 is going to get a woman pregnant and say do not have an abortion?

they do not have a right to say with a 22-year-old woman can do with her body. religion and politics, i could go on and on about religion and politics, because those are old white men making decisions for young lap, white hispanic women. i do not know where they get off thinking white people are the king of the world. they are the most ferocious people throughout history, white people. host: we will leave it there. mike, mount vernon, new york. caller: good morning. merry christmas. my view is that i think religion and politics -- i have seen religion and politics commingling in every part of the country in every state, every city.

there is always going to be politics and religion, going -- co-mingling. i do not know how to stop it. my view is that there should be separation of church and state, but once you have a congregation that goes to church, they are going to be political. there is no way in this day and age that that can be stopped. it is just something we have to live with as voters. churches are very powerful. we still have people who go to church and have religious ceremonies. even today, today is christmas. people are going to go to church, get together, talk. there is no way you can stop it. you can say i want separation of

church and state. i really do, but is that a realistic goal? is it realistic in this time and this day? i do not believe it is a realistic thing to think that churches and politics can separate, because one goes with the other, just like you have evangelical people and baptist people, catholic people, muslim people. how do you want to separate that? those are their beliefs. it plays a big part of their political atmosphere. they go to vote, they are looking at who they are going to vote for, whether they support their religion, whether they abide by religious rules. that is my view on it. host: thanks for your call.

before we take more calls today, i want to bring up an author that our previous guest, cal thomas, mentioned. that is journalist tim alberta. he has written a book called the kingdom, the power, and the glory, about the evangelical woman in the u.s. this is part of his comments on c-span's book tv afterward, where in this portion he talks about the generational differences among evangelicals in terms of politics and religion. >> there is -- and i alluded to this at the outset -- date very real -- a real generational schism. throughout my reporting, what i was consistently surprised and encouraged by was whenever i would be with young evangelicals, at 1.i refer to them as the children of the moral majority. i would consider myself a child

of the moral majority. that was my dad's mill you, the movement -=- limieu, that was his movement. the children of the moral majority have enough distance from it now and darkly ride any way that their parents could not be. they see the unraveling of the church. they see the pervasive influence of politics and tribal culture wars and money and corruption. they see how the gospel has been wielded against our perceived enemy. and they want nothing to do with it. i have been surprised at the extent to which i will run into and spend time around young evangelicals who, on paper, are just like their parents. they are culturally and

politically conservative. they would reflectively lean toward voting republican, but when you get into the meat of this, they are profoundly different in terms of where their priorities are, in terms of their ability to compartmentalize politics as something different from their faith, and, effectively, understanding that politics should be viewed through a filter of their faith rather than viewing their faith through the filter of their politics. in other words, whereas many of their parents and listening to the sermon on sunday about poverty or migrants or whatever and thinking about it maybe through the prism of what they heard on fox news, their children might see a fox news clip and they are listening to something about poverty or migrants and our thinking about it through the prism of what they heard on sunday. host: that was journalist tim

alberta. his book is titled the kingdom, the power, and the glory. it is about the evangelical movement and its history in u.s. politics. but we want to hear more from you on the question what role should religion play in politics and public life? eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain pacific, (202) 748-8001 . we will go to deming, washington. jay is on the line. caller: nine christmas. -- merry christmas. thank you to c-span. a couple of days ago, i was alone away by the composure and grace of the host. i wanted to say, intention and

sparks myself to want to address c-span. and today is a great topic. you have to talk about manifest destiny, as far as church in poverty. you have to apologize for it. to talk about church in politics. you could do the same about slavery. i want to apologize as a white man or manifest destiny. it has nothing to do is christ. same for slavery. let's go to abortion and talk about bringing children into this world. solomon might have mentioned something about there was a time

when maybe we could stop doing that as we keep this globe up. finally, let's go to the golden rule. if we could just do that thing and do it right, we would not have a need for government. i think that is it for today. merry christmas. host: billy is next in prattville, pennsylvania. there we go. billy, you are on. caller: good morning. our christmas to all in these uncertain times. i would like to make a point about the fake christians. the people who get their giggles out of what happened on january 6. call it what you want. how about you go back to your church and share that with your

congregants? how do they feel? what kind of christian is that? as far as the election, it will, down to never toppers -- trumpers and forever trumpers. we will see what happens this time around. finally, i would like to say john lennon roles, john lennon rocks. everybody have a great day. host: let's go to spokane, washington. mike on the line. caller: good morning. can you hear me? merry christmas. this is a great subject. i would like to bring something up.

let's start with our government. have the white house, the capitol, the pentagon. we have a president, vice president, senators, congressmen, governors, mayors spread across the country. let's take the vatican. they are there on city. you have the pope. you have bishops, cardinals. you have priests and affiliates spread all over this country. let's take a third one. you have the mafia. you have all your little affiliates spread all over the country. each for nothing but corruption, power, and money. let's take the nations. the mafia pulse and extortion. the government people go around and offer their nations. what does -- donation spread what does the church do?

donations. and witness protection. coverups. do we see the government doing this? of course. many times. have we seen it with the church and pedophile priests? left and right. have we seen the mafia coverups? they head out and conduct murders. we have seen that. you are never going to get the difference in any of them. they will always be connected and lead together. no women to separate them. all corruption, greed -- no way to separate them. all corruption, greed. similarities are uncanny. just something for people to think about. thank you. merry christmas again. [indiscernible] --host: daniel is calling from texas. caller: how are you doing? can you hear me? i think the question is broken.

here is why. same religion, especially in the u.s., we are not talking about all religions. that is the problem. we say we are speaking about religion, but really we are talking mainly about christianity. we do not represent all people. pretending to say that it is all religions we are talking about, you leave out a lot of americans. freedom of religion is for religion, but it is freedom for religion. -- but also from religion. i think that is all i wanted to

say. host: all right. next caller is marco in flint, michigan. caller: good morning. merry christmas. are you there? i have just a couple of comments. mikey johnson just opened the door to tax the churches. that will take care of our deficit problem. matter-of-fact, they should do back taxes. preachers might have to sell a mansion or egot, but -- or a yacht, but that is a lot of money and it will pay off our deficit. i also want to comment. i get offended macy people

crawling around on the floor -- when i see people crawling around on the floor. are they going to have animals sacrificed next? that is all i have got to say. host: we will go to our next caller, rhonda, in california. caller: i have a message for cal thomas if he is still listening. presently, he is a christian. -- supposedly, he is a christian. one thing they preach under christianity constantly is redemption. but i guess the only people on earth that redemption does not apply to is trump and his voters. they are not allowed any redemption. he was listing trumps, from

decades back, adultery and treatment of women. he is not committing those sins now. also, evangelicals, the word is not in the bible because the bible is written in english -- was not written in english. but if evangelical means spread the word, that is all over the testament. it seems to me that all of your past callers, male callers, all sounded like trump and teenagers. that is all. thank you. host: before we go back to the phone lines and take more calls, i want to share some of the responses we are getting on social media. henry hbert writes, if religion helps a person be kind, then politics will benefit

but the establishment of religion in politics is wrong if it does not promote person's right to pursue health, happiness, and the steve on barto rights, the question is flawed. religion p part in some people'sives policies are based on how they feel about issues, usually from moral and religious beliefs. the constitution prevents the u.s. from demanding one religion allows everyone to have their own. brent crawford says as little as possible, idlly not. -- none. dave cox says people have the ghto vote that -- as they choose. those who want to keep religion out of politics democracy. that brings us back to the phone lines. again, if you are in the eastern or central time zone, call us at (202) 748-8000.

if you are mountain or pacific, (202) 748-8001. you can also send a text message at (202) 748-8002 --(202) 748-8003. and we are on facebook. our next caller is lori from colorado. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to speak on three points. first on christianity -- not all christians are evangelicals. christian churches focus on judgment. others focus on life. -- love. i would also like to speak to abortion. men are fertile from age 13 into their 90's. but making abortion illegal

places all responsibility on only women. should we make a law to force men to use condoms? making abortion illegal handcuffs the medical profession enforces them to choose -- and forces them to choose between causing no harm and following the law. on political parties, our forefathers were concerned about political parties. it seems to me that over time having political parties has caused us to become more and more extreme in order for each party to have their own "edge." i think the extremism is the biggest danger to maintaining our republic. thank you for listening. i appreciate it. host: let's go to barrington, kansas. ronald on the line. caller: good morning.

merry christmas. with respect to the issue of religion, i'll text, -- politics, and public life, in our society, it has been politics, public life, and the media all play a role together. my concern about religion is that there seems to be a complete loss of any reference to the 10 commandments, particularly commandment number nine, now shall not have false -- thou shall not have false witness against thy neighbor. that commandment deals with honesty. if our elected officials, our media, would simply follow this

commandment, we would probably have a much less divisive society. think about the two impeachment against donald trump and how much false witness was born against him. that is the problem. dishonesty, intentional deceit, of the public by elected officials and the media. until this changes, our politics in the united states, change. this country will remain divisive. that is the problem. that is the cultural issue. that is what cal thomas should have been talking about, not name-calling. thank you and merry christmas. host: let's hear from carl now in merced, california. caller: i want to talk about the

question you posed. a lot of your callers have great points. but on this christmas day, like to say that because of religion in politics throughout the world, we have never had some much strife and war. people need to open a narrative that is role to their hearts and souls. -- real to their hearts and soul. we can understand more about peace and spirituality and not religious diatribe that distracts us from so many other issues. the big issue this christmas is throughout the world, no more war, please. thank you. host: next, montana, illinois. fred, go ahead.

caller: good morning. thank you. there is no winning we will be able to stop the broadcasting of political lines from the pulpit. but we should start taxing those people religious organizations that are doing it. if i voice my politics, i pay taxes. i like to know where my tax money is going. the other thing is the gentleman was talking about honesty. we used to have fact checking. whenever something was said, they would fact-check it to see if it was actually true. but i have not heard any of that lately. i would like to hear other peoples comments. i will listen off air. thank you. host: again, we are asking for

your thoughts about our question of the morning, which is what role should religion play in politics in public life? if you are in the eastern or central time zones, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain toward pacific -- mountain or pacific time zones,, (202) 748-8001. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. we are also getting messages on cial media. here is robert douglas, io not think religion has a place in political or public life. religion is a personal decision, which is where it should remain. if you hold public office, you cannot bring religion into the people's house. we want to hear more from you on

what role should religion play in politics and public life. before we get back to your calls, i want to bring up comments from house speaker mike johnson. he is a republican from louisiana who noted how religion influences him in politics. he was asked about his faith in the recent wall street journal forum here in washington. here is that exchange. >> your faith informs everything you do. could you talk about how it informs your work and affect your day-to-day? >> much has been made about this idea that i am a christian. everybody understands that everybody who comes to congress operates from a certain worldview. everybody has convictions. mine in previous generations would not have been all that

controversial. it is good to have people of faith in office. if they believe they answer to a higher power, that is important in terms of accountability. that is what the founding fathers believed. they wanted a vibrant expression of faith in the public square. i do not believe in imposing some national religion. christian nationalist, i do not know what that means. we respect all people of faith. that is the beauty of america and an important part of our tradition in this country. i operate from a perspective of faith. it informs how i think about issues. but i am one member of a large legislative body. as you have seen, it is difficult to force consensus on anything. whenever people's philosophy or traditions are, we have to build consensus. that is what i do every day.

host: that was house speaker mike johnson talking about how his faith influences his politics. we are going back to the phone lines. the question, what role should religion play in politics and public life? eastern and central time zone, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. our next caller is mike from massachusetts. caller: thank you for allowing me to speak. i think that religion should be separate from government. but i think we are in a different situation where it religion has morphed or at least the way that religion affects government has morphed into something completely new, where instead of having the catholic church having power over government, you have unions in

government. you have bureaucrats that stick together. you have got the climate change movement. these people act like you would expect from a religion or called, where the -- or cult, where they stick together and enforce their ideas. there should be a separation of unions, separation of religious groups, like woke movement and the climate change movement. they replace in a disguised form the danger of religion in government. host: thank you. ron is next in bringing, florida. caller: merry christmas.

i do not know where to start. i am catholic. i am a firm believer in the separation of church and state. just like it says in the constitution, i am a conservative-liberal. i want my bills paid and i want you out of my bedroom. that is what i think this country is about. you need to pay the bill. and you need to let people do what they are supposed to do. this gentleman before me called about all these different unions and everybody else. what do you think the oil companies are? what do use all these rich people do? they are as much of a cult or even more than a union. the union gave you 40 hours, a

living wage. god gave you your own train of thought. my god is for me and my own thoughts. i do not think they should push it on me. i do not push it on anybody. god told me to treat everybody the same as i would like to be treated. if we would just do that, and keep it out of our politics, to i want to have my feelings of goodness brought into politics? the department religion? -- the good part of my religion? the good part of everybody's religion. not just mine. we have everybody's religion. they all need to be brought in to helping this country not

taking and pushing its beliefs on this country. host: merry christmas. we appreciate your call. next is evelyn in virginia. caller: i am with the seminary for six years. i had 23 bibles. i would like to know which are you supposed to follow if you are in the government? our government has no place in religion and religion has no place in government. they take one part of the bible that they are using and run with it rather than taking the whole thing. what about the men? what about men in the portion? why are you always attacking the woman? with the babies get here, they do not want to feed them, clothe them, or house them. it his hypocrisy.

europeans came to america and destroyed a nation of people based on religion. religion has no place of government. have a nice day. host: on the line from hamilton, ohio, zach is calling. what are your thoughts? caller: i think it is ironic that everybody is saying merry christmas this morning. considering your question. however, i think you are asking the wrong audience the wrong question. imagine if you could interview jesus christ and asked him if religion should play part in politics. what do you think his answer would be? or take any other religious leader and ask him the same question? what were their answer be? when you think about america, there is probably not a town,

city that does not have a church. of course, the church has its teachings. it teaches its morality. everybody in that little town or city, they sit on school boards. they are politicians. religion does shaped the morality of america. people connected away from that. it is ironic. we consider ourselves a "christian" nation. host: i will leave it there. our next caller is trent kim ng monroe, louisiana. caller: i have been working on this question for 40 years. we are at a moment in history where the democrats have become a theocratic, totalitarian,

dictatorial police state. only one side, they believe in absolute truth is what they have. we feel like there is no alternative to becoming a theocratic, totalitarian, dictatorial police state. maybe we should start thinking about becoming nationstates like in europe, the nation state of texas, the nationstate of new york. i feel that we have a social experiment to see who has that the best philosophical, intellectual framework for making life rich again. i hope we continue to talk about this on c-span. i think it is the crux of everything we are about. you cannot escape religion. even if you are an atheist, you have a belief system. thank you for the discussion today. host: let's go to santa fe, new

mexico. robin is on the line. caller: hi. i firmly believe that religion and politics have nothing to do with each other. i have been to meetings where -- and a impacting political meetings, county commission, to meet every month -- and they started off with a prayer. it is a christian prayer. not catholic, not jewish, not muslim. nothing except christian prayers. also, here is my will problem. christians seem to think that if you are not christian that you have a lack of morals, ethics or values. the only way to get them is to become a christian.

i find that attitude offensive, narrowminded, and unbelievably ignorant. in addition, too many christians blame god or the devil for every act or action that happens in the world. that gives them an out. that gives them a way to be irresponsible in their own personal lives. if the devil made me do it, i am not responsible. if it was god's will, what can i do about it? i do not want to hear that kind of crack anymore from anyone. thank you. host: as we continue our conversation, i want to bring up one more data point. this is from pew research on a

survey they recently conducted on the influence of religion in american life. the question is the percentage of u.s. adults who say whether religion is gaining or losing influence -- we will show you the results. 74%, this is from a survey in 2022, 74 percent said losing influence. 23% said gaining influence. but those numbers are a little bit changed. in 2019, 78% said losing influence. so the losing influence number has gone down. the gaining influence has gone up from 20% in 2019 to 23% who said gaining influence in september 2022. that is on influence of religion

in american life from pew research. we have time for more of your calls. what role should religion play in politics and public life? eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. steventon, wheaton, illinois. caller: good morning. i appreciate the dialogue. -- should start with your own soul. you should be living the right life so you are making good decisions for everybody and following the golden rule of treating everybody like you want to be treated yourself. drifters and sexual assault is -- that is not a good thing. however christians are muslims or any religion, if they are doing things wrong and murdering

people, that is a bad thing. on a personal level, every going to legislative penal law evangelical law? that is not putting religious precepts into law, but i would like for everybody to really look at it and say politicians, i know they are all sinners, but we do not want to judge. christ says he will be the final judge. but do not negotiate with people who are bringing you down. whether it is mohamed noor christ, literally right life. -- or christ, live the right life. fact was back to rome and greece. -- that goes back to rome and

greece. you cannot say i go to vote for a center because i am also the center. that is ridiculous. that is not good today. all religions should fit in the united states. host: our office we will continue all this week. tune into washington journal tomorrow for a different author with a different viewpoint. as we continue with today's question on the religion that -- role that religion should bring -- play politics and public life, let's go to bowen in kentucky. caller: in morning. feeling so blessed today.

i had a great christmas with my family. this is an interesting topic. i just want to say that i think definitely religion plays a role in public life. for me personally, it informs everything that i do. the bible teaches us that true religion cares for widows and orphans. that is what our government does. they provide for us. i think it is important. god is our creator. he created all of us. he only ever wants the best for us. our laws are based on the 10 commandments. you look outside the supreme court, look at the artwork, there is moses with the 10 commandments. our founding fathers knew this. look at what george washington wrote about jesus and our other founders. it has to inform what we do. our morals come from god.

everything we have comes from god. god only wants what is best for us. i found it interesting the statistics you shared. our country, our world as a whole has turned away from faith. is the fault of us in the church. we have not stepped to the word. we gave out on our principles. we gotten away from what god teaches us. we need to get back to that. it is not about us telling what other people should do. it is not about being in the wrong. it is about showing people the good things of god, and personally how he has changed us, and how he only wants what is best for us. if we could turn our country back to god, love they neighbor as thyself, god tells us the two greatest commands are love the lord with all your heart, soul,

and mind, and love your leader is yourself. if we do that, we would only be better off. i wanted to say that. thank you for the discussion. merry christmas. god bless america. host: go to new orleans. arbery, what are your thoughts? caller: i am from louisiana. mike jones is a decent man, but jezebel had her own religious politicians. jesus did not come to the religious establishment. he was in the community and worked amongst the least amongst us. it is to allow someone like donald trump, that has done everything from insurrection to being accused of rape, stealing the election, and none of these people stood up for anything.

host: aubrey, and think we lost arbery. let's go to paul in austin, texas. we will let you have the last word today. caller: good morning. what a wonderful show this suspension. people are saying some intelligent, heartfelt thanks about this question. it is a good question, but i think we have to look at who people. if you choose to be a spiritual person, whatever religion you practice, that is part of who you are. that is part of your makeup. the things you do, the way you treat people, the way you act, that is part of your foundation.

the problem that we have with church and state is that when we have people who try to use their religion to control other people, they try to use their faith and beliefs to put their beliefs and their faith on other people's way of life. they try to control situations and people and policies. that is where we have a problem. on the one hand, we see political leaders sitting down, talking about faith. we're like, wonderful, but on the other hand, as he is talking about it, he is trying to disenfranchise somebody else. the religious right say they are pro-life. they are not pro-life. they are antiabortion. but the media and everything has allowed them to change words to something that sounds friendlier to the year and to the heart. and they can cast a wider net by saying they are pro-life.

it is not pro-life. it is antiabortion. but they do not want to say that because that has too much negative stigma. they try to use their faith as a justification for the policies and think they are doing. we all know that that is not right. when we talk about separation of church and state, what are we talking about? host: i have got to step in. we are running out of time. but appreciate your call. we will leave it there. that will do it for washington journal. we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. enjoy your christmas day. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023]

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