♪ host: it is the washington journal for december 27. a recent poll on if americans were economically better off in three years ago, whichly

equates to the start of the biden administration. relief assistance. business owners spoke of hard time and the impact of covid. you can add your own sentiments for the next hour tell us abt ur personal financial circumstances. if you're better off, (202) 748-8000. if you are worseff, (202) 748-8001. if you think you are about the same, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. you can post on facebook and on x as well. it was the financial times that asked about financial situations three years ago. they posted it on a recent poll. that poll shows that 14% of americans, of american voters, believe they are financially better off since president biden assumed office. nearly 70% say the president's

economic policies have either hurt the u.s. economy or have no impact. this findings show the challenges facing the biden campaign regarding inflation on americans. 82% of respondents cited price increases as their primary financial stress. that is what the financial times looked at. the washington post looks at profiles of people three years ago compared to now when it comes to their situation. it highlights one nicholas, saying he started the pandemic with $8,500 of credit card debt and emerged debt free. the pandemic helped being able to get ahead of my payments. i was able to save a lot of money because i was not going out and doing things that took a lot -- and that took a lot off

the financial stress. a job switch from a restaurant to an upscale cocktail lounge. bartenders and other hospitality workers were in high demand. the same washington profile -- washington post profile looks at other americans, particularly those who may not have done well in the last few years. including business owners. this highlights the one business owner in titans corner, virginia, saying he open a sprawling salon and spa at tyson's corner center in late 2018. he had 21 employees, hundreds of clients. he made $80,000 a month. that dried up in the past three years. yusef has depleted his savings but is prepared to close down. "i don't know what's going to happen or what i'm going to do. i have a family, mortgage, two

car payments, insurance, taxes but my business is gone." those are just two profiles. you may fit somewhere in those cagories. you a have a category on your own -- you may have a category on your o. if you think you are better off than you were three years ago, give us a call and tell us why. (202) 7480. if you think you are worse off, (202) 748-8001. if you think you are about the sa, (202) 748-8002. you can always text us your thoughts at (202) 748-8003. on the line for wors off from michigan, let's hear from karen. your first up. go ahead. caller: good morning. definitely worse off. our fuel costs have skyrocketed. transportation getting

to work is increased. groceries. the cost for groceries is astronomical. i don't know how young families are doing it. the food dollar is not going as far. same thing with the restaurant costs. going out for a meal for two is $50 plus. interest rates on car loans, credit cards are making everything higher. making the monthly payments is higher. clothing for children, school supplies is absolutely crushing for families. the nuclear family is under attack by our democratic leaders that absolutely hate these families. host: how have you modified spending in this case? caller: we have had to tighten

everything up. absolutely tighten down from a to z. host: that is karen in michigan on the worse offline. if you are worse off, it is (202) 748-8001. if you say you are better off, (202) 748-8000. think you are about the same, (202) 748-8002. jasper on the line for better off. he is based in cleveland, ohio. hello. caller: good morning. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: i am disabled. it has been the same for me. there is no problem. the shelves were empty but now they are full. the boats on the ocean could not get in. but now i have no problem with it. they were talking about taking away money from the poor people.

if they want to see with the money is, sunday nights at 9:30 with jackson barrett. they buy cars for $100,000. host: when you say you are better off how do you gauge that? caller: i am better off. i pay my bills. i live in about $12,000 a year. i seem like i'm better off now. everything is better. my ssd, ssi, my health care, they gave me a little bit to buy extra food and that helps me. you should see where the real money is -- host: let's go to richard who says he is worse off. he's in michigan, rose city. hello. caller: hi.

i don't see anything that has come down in price in the previous three years. everything costs more. host: when you say you are worse off, how do you mean that? caller: as far as inflation goes, food prices, insurance, car insurance, the price of a car, everything. i don't see anything that has gone down at the pace they were raising social security. host: ok. that is richard on the worse offline. the wall street journal highlights in a story today about the misery index. according to that index americans should not be all that miserable but they have started to catch on. an economist says it's a simple summing of the unemployment rate, the inflation rate.

good first rose to prominence in the 1976 presidential election. jimmy carter highlighted it in his campaign. it came back to bite him when he was running against ronald reagan in 1980. the index was higher. the increase in on a planet caused by prices sent the misery index to its highest level nearly four decades in april 2020. inflation picked up. in the middle of last year it looked lofty. with on employment low the annex has fallen sharply. in november, the unappointed rate at 3.7%. consumer prices up 3.1% a year earlier. 620% versus 12.5% in june. measures of the consumer attitudes are still down. university of michigan reported on the 22nd of december the index jumped to 69.7% in december. it is still a bit below the april 2020 level of 71.8%.

you can take that misery index and factor it into your own situation. asking if you are better off. (202) 748-8000. worse off, (202) 748-8001. if y say you are the same, (202) 748-8002. let's hear from william who says he is the same. he's in ohio. caller: good morning, pedro. this is a 88-year-old tennessean. i feel i'm doing the same, thank heavens. by medical costs has not been that great -- my medical cost has not been that great so far. everybody is always talking about politicians. well, to me all politicians are crooks. host: when you say it is the same, is it just medical costs or what else are you looking at? caller: i am looking at all of them. i don't have no debts or

anything, no credit cards or nothing else. host: ok. caller: i just have no faith in our government whatsoever, because they are all crooks. host: paul in idaho says he is worse off. caller: yes, definitely feeling worse off. two summers i started a victory garden so i could afford vegetables out of the yard. could not afford them at the store. that is just for a start. tires have gone up for your cars. house payments have gone up. rent payments have doubled in idaho from the huge influx of californians and washingtonians and oregonians moving out of the dem states to find some relief. it is one thing after another. biden is making horrible mistakes.

he released sanctions on iran and look what happened with all the armaments -- host: what were vegetable prices like so that you had to start gardening? caller: i had to get a part-time job just to afford the food i was purchasing. i'm not on food stamps. i will not take food stamps. i will work for what i'm going to eat. that is what i did. that is why i started a garden. it is not easy out here. i don't know what kind of salary you are on but i'm not on the salary you are on so i have to work to eat. host: allie in virginia. better off. hello. caller: can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: i am better off because i retired last year, january 7, my birthday.

i'm getting just a little bit over $2000. $527 for my electricity. i found a second job. i'm just getting up for work now. i'm much better off. i just bought myself a car so thank goodness. host: when you decided to retire was it a long process given the state of the economy? how did that factor into your decision to retire? caller: i'm 65 and i look like i'm 45. i physically fit. -- i am physically fit. after retirement i asked myself is this what retirement is going to look like? i went back to work and things are better. host: what is the new job? caller: i'm working as a concierge at a retirement home. host: gotcha.

better off than he was three years ago. got another job. back to your calls. we will continue on. we wanted to show you a little bit from the recent trip of the president traveling to milwaukee, wisconsin. he talked about with the administration has done for blockton businesses and he talked about the economy overall. here is the president. [video] >> black small businesses grow, everything benefits. not a joke. it gives hope and prospects for people. since kamala and i entered office we have filed a record number in less than three years of 15 million new job -- new applications to start new businesses. 15 million. [applause] lead by black business ownership. across the country wages for workers are up. black wealth is a record up 60%

since the pandemic. so many of you -- [applause] i mean this from the bottom of my heart. we are just getting started. so many of you have the vision and took the risk to open businesses. you bet on yourselves. together we are transforming the economy by investing in all of america and all americans. i said when i ran that i would represent everyone. does not matter what the state was. think about it. think of all the businesses that you know about throughout the midwest. back my way as well. they closed down because you had corporations deciding to get cheaper labor across the sea. they sent the jobs overseas and brought the product back home. we changed that. we are having the jobs here and sending products overseas. [applause]

from the time i got involved in public life -- i've only been around a few years. [laughter] bless me. [laughter] we are building an economy from the middle out and the bottom up, not the top down. not a lot of trickle down in my dad's kitchen table in the top down economy. when you increase the middle class, the poor have a shot in the wealthy still do very well. the middle class does well and we all do well. host: some of you sending us posts on our various social media sites. this is frank in nework. at 3:00 yesterday, the stock market hit an all-time high. the economy is doing so well. i don't know why people don't feel it. burt says i've discovered my net worth about the same. a portfolio creased but the overall value increased.

douglas sang the wages are about the same. when it comes to food, gas, materials, the cost of living is horrible dawn sang doing good. weork at 58 due to illness. so glad i have obamacare to rely . if this was 2001, i would be out of luck. you can post on the various sites. where are you now compared to three years ago? if you want to text us, (202) 748-8003. middleton in west virginia says about the same. thanks for waiting. caller: good morning pedro. i retired back in 2006. you can imagine how many presidents i have been through. i paid all my stuff off before i retired. i was 59 and a half. i'm going to be 77 next january 5.

i have stimulated the economy this year by buying things that i need that cost almost $1000 or more. i have helped out the economy. i don't blame nobody for what's going on. this is awful that these people call in about president obama. i mean president biden. excuse me. there is nothing to do with him. he does not run the economy. host: you spent $1000 plus. what was $1000 plus? caller: i bought a brand-new plainer. i do would work. -- woodwork. i bought a brand-new computer.

i have a laptop, because my other one went bad. stuff like that. i don't wear it about the money. -- worry about the money. i have been retired. host: single-handedly keeping the economy propped up. maryland. worse off. hello? caller: yes, good morning. i have social security. the reason why i am calling is because it seems like as soon as you get an increase, everything increases from the health insurance. before that everything like your auto insurance, your homeowners insurance, your monthly expenses. everything has increased

enormously. i am not saying it is biden like the gentleman before. it just seems like you get a cost-of-living increase and they just increase everything. actually you never get anything. host: is social security your main means of support these days? caller: i have a federal pension and i also have social security. i have been retired since 2002. i'm 74. host: lillian giving us her extremes. many of you -- her experience. many of you calling in. the numbers are on the screen if you want to pick the categories about where you are financially compared to three years ago. ron in illinois says he is

better off. caller: good morning, pedro. how are you this morning? i am much better off. i'm 61 years old. i farm. i'm also a college professor. it's been great quite frankly. we have had a very good crop out here last fall. prices sold at a very high price. i have been a professor for over 30 years. we are doing fine. it is kind of like the bill clinton years again with the current economy for me. i grow corn and soybeans. host: go ahead. caller: you go ahead. host: a few years ago did you find yourself in a place where you needed help from other places or the government?

heavy always been sustained by what you did? caller: not really. i'm a self-sustaining guy. my dad and grandfather both worked well into their 70's. i'm 61 right now. 62 in may. i just enjoy what i do. my wife and daughter, they are doing well as well. i have no complaints about anything. it is a wonderful country. i look forward to the new year coming up. everything is positive for me. host: what do you teach? caller: i am a business professor. i tried to instill these thoughts in the young people i deal with on a daily basis. they are 18, 19, 20 years old. they want to make the most of the rest of the century. i tried to instill in them that they can do it. be positive, think about the future, make good decisions and you will be fine.

and quite frankly they buy into what i have to say. right now we are on break. we will be back in action and a couple of weeks. it's all good. i have no complaints about anything. life has been wonderful for me and my family. host: college professor/farmer. he talked about the next year. axios looks at that, particularly the economic picture. the economy in 2024 is on track to be described as the -- to be normal. the inflation war and tight money in the last three years has greeted a collective sense of an economy unmoored, but there's reason to think 2024 will be less chaotic. inflation is back to near normal levels. labor shortages have eased. the federal reserve is poised to cut interest rates next year.

the forecast of a normal economy simultaneously dodging high inflation, high interest rates and high-end employment is the answer you get when you have decision-makers doing what they think is most likely. there is more to this axios pi ece. john from ohio. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. i'm doing about the same. i think the biden administration has done an excellent job. i think joe biden himself has a terrific attitude for an old guy like us. i'm 77. i'm a disabled vietnam veteran. i planned in my lifetime. i planned for good times and i plan for bad times.

consequently, everything is looking pretty solid for me. i feel that especially the younger generation they get themselves in debt over electronic devices. they have to have every electronic device made. they have to have $80,000 and $90,000 suv's that get 10 miles to the gallon. no wonder they are living paycheck-to-paycheck. everything is looking up. inflation has been coming down. unemployment is really good. i am looking for a great future, hopefully joe biden will win the election in 2024 and stay healthy. that is pretty much all i have to say. host: john and ohio -- in ohio.

jennifer ofabook talking about rent. rent is too much. i'm veteran on 80% disability. it ihard to find the place to live that does not take up to 50% of my disability. much lower rent please. valjean in north carolina, worse offline. hello -- worse off line. caller: i say i am worse off not because of the last three years but from when i was able to get on social security. before social security, i wasn't poor. i did not have to get food stamps or anything like that. people don't know that social security is based on your work. the last three years i did not

work before i was eligible for social security. i am grateful for the increases that we have had, because i am able to pay my bills. but now i have to get on food stamps. i have to get medicaid to pay my medicare premium. i live solely off social security. host: that's a viewer in north carolina. christopher is next. says he is better off in michigan. ann arbor. hello. caller: good morning. happy new year to everyone. i am better off. i am thankful to my lord and savior jesus christ. i am also thankful to the current administration.

biden and harris. i am a disabled black man. 58 years old. have been able to do some good things this past year. my daughter is in an upper ivy league school. able to purchase her brand-new car. -- a brand-new car. able to help a friend in need. not a brand-new carpet half a brand-new car so she could make some payments. better off. able to help a lot of charities. that is what i would encourage people even if you have a little, put part of it away and give it away. it is something that has blessed me. being able to give to the church

i grew up in that helped me along the way. so thankful for that. able to give back. i really believe it is the small little giving that i have been able to do over the course of these lasts 40 year that's enabled me to do better now. i'm very thankful, better off, looking forward to a second term for president biden and vice president harris. host: that is christopher on our better offline. we will continue on and pick a linehabest represents you when it comes to your financial situation cpared to three years ago. you betterff you think, (202) 748-00. you can also tell us if you're worse off at (202) 748-8001.

perhaps you think you are the same as you were three years ago financlly. (202) 748-8002. that is how you call usnd let us know that. text us at (202) 748-8003. we heard from president biden on the economy. former president trump when he stomps on the trail talking about matters of the economy. a recent speech in new hampshire highlighted that. [video] >> where you better off five years ago or today? no contest. there is no contest. nobody would say today. what a difference a president can make. it really does make a difference. a big difference. even bigger than i thought. if you go back 7, 8 years i never thought -- it makes a tremendous difference. since joe biden took over we had a three-year inflation rate of over 20%.

under my leadership inflation was nonexistent. we had gasoline at $1.87 a gallon. after three years of bidenomics, the average monthly mortgage payment has gone from $1746 under my administration to $3322 today, but you can't get the money so it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter. biden's handlers are making the banks richer and you poor. the handlers are making the banks rich and the banks discriminate against conservatives. they discriminate against religion because they are afraid of the radical left. i think the bank regulators are doing a big number of the banks. they are not allowed to do business with you. we are going to get those banks when we get in office. [cheering]

nobody knows the banking industry better than me. i am not going to them take advantage of you any longer. they have taken advantage and what they do to the people in this room -- by the way, millions of others. it's a disgrace. we will ended. joe biden and the democratic party are incapable of solving any problems. they have only created problems. as longest joe biden is in the white house the american dream is dead. host: that is former president trump. the washington post pushed out of -- published a story on their website taking a look at the economy in the present administration compared to the previous one. under the category of economic growth, they find for the most part the economy expanded at a steady pace under both trump and biden. gross domestic product has grown about tony percent since -- 22%

since biden, 14% under trump. the economy rebounded quickly thanks in part to trillions in stimulus money. under biden, five straight quarters of growth following a six-month slump last year. the latest extension was powered by heavy consumer spending which makes up about 70% of the economy and new infrastructure and green energy products ever spearheaded by the biden administration. the economist noted the current rate of economic growth and annualized rate of 4.9% is unsustainable. many spec growth to cool next year -- expect growth to cool next year. several charts looking at aspects of the economy and this administration versus the past one. you can find it at the washington post. tom in north carolina says worse off. caller: good morning. anybody says they are better

off, i just don't understand. go to the grocery store. go get a loan on a house. you will pay 9.5%. you buy a new car, you will pay sticker or above. i am not better off under biden. if he gets there for another four years it is just going to get worse. he wants us in electrical cars that average $62,000 a year. i don't know many people that can even afford that. everything has gone up in price, especially in north carolina. we are definitely the worse off. host: what are you paying more for these days? caller: meat, steaks, peanut butter, name it. everything has gone up in price. i don't know of anything in the grocery store that has gone down. not one thing. gas prices.

gas prices are three dollars 10 since a gallon here. -- three dollars and 10 since a callahan -- $3.10 a gallon here. host: when it comes to economic conditions, the same. caller: thank you for having me. currently, everything is the same. it is the same without growth in the economy for me and my household. the cost of living has continuously increased, per food and gas -- for food and gas growing in price. financially the pay does not change. we are at the same salary. we have to work twice as hard to get ahead or pay the bills, even if we are looking to purchase a new house. the cost of living has grown. even in places in georgia where

they have grown financially for the state, for the new development coming into the state of georgia. in the same areas, the rural areas, the new businesses come in and they will bring economic growth but the surrounding area the house costs have gone up immensely. it's a very hard balance and practically no balance at this point. host: where is sylvania in georgia? how would you approximate that to a major city? caller: perfect example. i'm glad you asked that question. it is close to statesboro where they are building a hyundai plant near statesboro, georgia. the housing market has grown but it's also tripled in price. it's close to the savanna ports where there is growth due to the port being there at the travel

destination -- if you want to work you have to travel. that means more gas and more time you spend on the road. possibly two hours from augustine, georgia, which people are familiar with because of the golfing. if you travel for a better paying job, you are spending your time in travel and gas. there are some jobs in georgia since i have relocated here i realized a lot of people were getting paid below or near minimum wage for many years at a job they were not even meeting the cost of living. there is no balance in our economy. for me personally i don't get matters who is in office if they are not for the people and finding a balance. that is the most important. host: that is charisse giving us her story in georgia. you can add yours to the mix. no matter what category you find yourself in. a viewer in wilson, north

carolina says better off than three years ago. he goes like coach. good morning. caller: good morning c-span nation. i am better off because coming out of the pandemic in the last three years it has compelled me to take more ownership of my own financial situation. i have over the course of the last three years done a will, got into the stock market to some small measure in degree, and to be more diligent and intentional about my financial awareness as relates to the economy overall. i cannot blame any individual. the bottom line stops and ends with me. host: what forced you to change those decisions about your finances?

caller: because of all the vitriol coming out of the pandemic as i refer to it, the world was coming to an end. i had to take stock where i was. the biggest benefit was to consider me. i am past retirement age. 73 years of age. i had to consider my progeny and my children who i would leave behind to at least get them started out with a better financial situation than i did over the course of my life. host: any advice or people in your situation thinking decisions need to be made? what advice would you give them? caller: i would suggest increase your financial literacy and iq. one of the things i have done, save more than you spend.

keep abreast of the trends that are coming. don't live in the moment. plan and prepare for what is coming in the future. host: you go by coach. did you coach or is that your name? caller: i am a retired educator in the state of north carolina. i have been a coach, a director of athletics at a social studies teacher. i taught some of these basic principles financial literacy and economics during my career in education but as a retiree i'm able to institute those principles and concepts i taught. host: thank you very much for calling and giving your advice. willy in georgia who says he is worse off. caller: i am worse off because of this capitalism. there is no cap on that. they keep coming up.

when people get raises they go up double. there's no use getting raises if they jack up everything. the president don't have any control over that. it is pure greed. that is what i think. host: where do you think capitalism is specific when it comes to making you worse off? caller: if you go get stimulus money that came out everybody was trying to get a hold of that. all these businesses was trying to get a hold of that stimulus money. after they got it all they just jacked up everything at the store. you'll get a chapstick for one dollar, it is two dollars now. everything is going up because they can. than the people's rent is going up -- then the people's rent is going up. they announce everybody's going to get a raise, everything is going up.

they are going to go up anyway. it is not a win situation for the regular people. host: willie in georgia giving us his perspective. a couple of viewers brought above minimum wage. -- brought up minimum wage. the new year will bring pain for millions of americans according to a study done by the economic policy institute. on new year's day -- sorry. on new year's day, 22 states will raise their minimum wage, giving nearly 9.9 million americans a pay raise. workers will receive $6.95 billion in additional wages from the increases. in addition, 38 cities and counties will increase their minimum wages on january 1, rising above their states. the analysis shows that women

will make up more than half of the workers getting an increase on the first day of 2024. more from the hill if you want to find it there. mike says he is the same. he's in michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling. i believe the american public is spoiled. they have cable tv. they have extra phones. they get what they want, not what they need. if they just settled down and looked at themselves and said i have to save money, i can't afford things. they want to give money to the church, to charity, things like that, but they have to take care of home first. they don't do that. they are spoiled. they went everything that they want, not what they need. thank you very much. host: mike in michigan giving us his perspective.

diane from denver texting us. i'm a teacher. with rent so high i'm living paycheck-to-paycheck. i'm worried about homelessness. it makes nsee. low over the rent and give us mo money. dave froflida saying m finances are the same the cost of living is being attacked by corporate greed. the high cost of rent, insurance, health care has kept the middle class and poor people with what little people they have. another viewer says the past the years we are better off. way better off than three years ago. thpaemic was three years ago. prices are going down athe grocery stores. heating oil. income is slightly higher. we can get out again. this is from x. a viewer says worse. things were so much more affordable and better with former president trump in the white house and america under control and humming along. those are many other ways you

can reach out to us. text us at (202) 748-8003. post on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. you can also post on x at @cspanwj. greg in ohio. caller: to the educator talking about financial literacy, i paid off my house this year. i got a raise. my stocks are doing great. my son graduated from college this year with a degree in finance. he has six job offers before he even graduated. he's gainfully employed and all his friends who graduated with him are gainfully employed in their majors. i bought a car. i paid way below msrp. my son bought a car and paid way below msrp. i just passed a gas station that $2.49. this is not spin. it's reality.

i'm doing very well. my youngest son gainfully employed all summer. he's a high school. he's getting college scholarship offers. i have nothing to complain about. things are very great. host: what is the secret? caller: well, a long time ago my parents told me to save for rainy day and be dead-free. the goal is to be debt-free before you retire. live below your means. nothing like living but -- enjoy your life but live below your means. there's nothing wrong with going on vacation and spending little money. say for a rainy day. my stocks took a hit but they rebound. despite what the republicans have been complaining about, they are not talking about the economy anymore.

things are stabilized because a covid. it has nothing to do with trump. somebody just needs to fact-check trump. whatever he says, have an expert come on your show. everything he is telling is a fib. host: thank you for the input and the advice you offered the audience. ray says he is worse off in south carolina. caller: mi on? dashcam i on? -- am i on? i am retired. my social security has increased and i appreciate that. however, my medical has increased more than the increase in the social security. the investments are good. however, the cost of living is

substantially higher than what it was. thank goodness a couple of goes ago i paid off my house because i needed the extra funds just to live on. i guess beyond the financial consideration i look at the philosophy of government. i see with all of the southern border issues, the war issues, trying to appease every country and seeing many wars and rumors of wars, i see we are going in the wrong direction. i would certainly like to see america first. i do appreciate you taking my call and god bless you. host: ray in south carolina. we showed this earlier but when it comes to consumer confidence as it currently stands in the united states it was earlier this month on the 20th saying

u.s. consumer confidence increased to a five-month high in december. americans optimistic about future business conditions in the labor market which could help underpin the economy early next year. the jump and confidence reported on wednesday. it occurred across all age groups and household income levels. consumers continue to worry about inflation. many were planning to buy motor vehicles, houses, and appliances in the next six months. it gives you some specifics if you want to do that. a reuters story on consumer confidence in the u.s. we are asking about economic confidence compared to three years ago. robert and georges says he's the same -- in georgia says he is the same. caller: good morning. thank you for having me today. i hear a lot of people talking about they prepared, they are in

a better situation than they were three years ago because they plan and the financial literacy. they made decisions to allow them to be in a better place. it still goes back to the fact that three years ago i was able to set money aside. i was able to do more things with my money and put myself in a position that allows me to be prosperous in the future. these past three years it has kinda been the same. i have not been able to put money away like i used to. i have not been able to do what my money what i was able to do a few years ago before the pandemic. i figured when i went into the pandemic i would accelerate in my finances because i did not have a lot to spend. things were shut down and people were not spending like they used to. i actually stayed the same. my money kind of got me through what i was doing.

i am not worse off. i'm not in a bad position but i'm in a stable position. i had to look at my finances because i did not know why i was not making or saving more money through the process. the economy is in a state of uncertainty or it's misunderstood. they misunderstand was happening. they don't over they fit in in this economy. people are thinking thoughtfully about what they should do with their money, how they should use their money. they are thinking about their future. this economy is making us think about our future now, which may be good. i'm definitely the same. i am optimistic though. i just want to give my input. people are more conscious now versus a few years ago when they

may have not thought about it because things were more affordable. gas was cheaper. things were in a better state. they did not have to think about the economy tanking or something. that's all i wanted to say. host: thank you, robert. raymond in florida says he's better off. caller: how are you doing? better off only because of a situation like a lot of the callers have said that they put themselves in. you can't really rely on anybody, any president or administration. you have to take your own finances into your own hands. a perfect example for myself. i am 54. i retired when i was 44. i was a corporate chef. got a chance to save a lot of money. i bought my house outright. i don't own or have any loans for cars or anything like that. the l.a. thing i can tell

-- the only thing i can tell people is get the housing off your plate because that kills people. i can live off it now. i can live off $1000 a month because of my housing and not having any debt. the only reason you will do well or better is because of yourself. that is pretty much it. host: why so young to retire? why make that decision at that age? caller: i have a very bad history of family deaths at young ages. i do think i have had anyone on my side of the family live past 53. uncles, every thing else. i put a business plan together when i was young. i had a very good job where i made $200,000 to $300,000 year. i go to europe every year. i go to asia every other year. i make sure i spend money on the things i really enjoy but i also don't waste money.

instead of buying -- most people would have bought a $700,000 house. i bought a $300,000 house. i put myself in a position to enjoy my retirement and i have plenty of money in the bank. i do feel bad for the economy at this point in time. i see how it hurts. my mom is retired. i supplement her and her retirement. i can see how it does affect her and now i have to help her additionally. i can see the struggles out there. i'm not calling to post because i hope everybody does well -- to boast. do whatever you can to get the housing off your balance sheet. run your house like a business and try to get that huge thing. whatever you do, buy a house, pay it off, and then your life will be much better. host: best of health e.u., raymond. -- to you, raymond. chet in new york, worse off.

caller: i'm 68 years old. the last three years, i can't believe our car insurance. what i have to pay for car insurance. $1812 a year. that is outrageous. you have the price of food going up and your bills. 12030 comes around and they want us to -- when 2030 comes around and they want us to go electric. it will cost us an arm and a leg in 2030. the way the economy is people are not going to have any money for their children or grandchildren to leave. the churches are suffering because people are cutting back. they are not going to church and supporting churches. the economy really stinks. we know when donald trump was president, i was doing pretty

good financially. this is ridiculous the way things have been going. a lot of people biden this and biden that. you can't save money. it was taken taken take. -- take and take and take. we will have more problems than before. host: may i ask about the insurance. you talked about $1800 a year. how has that changed in the last two years? caller: the such and such increases. 70 people in new york state are driving without insurance. the price of parts has escalated. used cars and stuff. to fix the car is outrageous. the prices keep going up and so does your insurance. host: chet bringing insurance as a factor when it comes to the last three years financially. mike in ohio says he is the same. hello.

caller: good morning, america. i have been listening to a lot of people. we are all having problems. the number one problem i have seen in 2008 we were wiped out. we were able to get back up and keep going. living beyond your means is the problem nowadays. people want the best of everything. you are trying to outlive the joneses down the street. that's the problem. everybody is living beyond their means. as far as the economy, gets shot. no doubt about it. i pay double for almost everything now. it's ridiculous. as far as financing, you want to know about american financing. let's talk about washington's finances. has anybody seen the report? it's ridiculous. we are losing trillions of dollars for these people that

are supposed to be working for us. what are we going to do? we are going to hire joe again for the next four years and put us into the ditch? host: one more call from howard in ohio. he says he is worse off. caller: good morning. yeah. when the -- a little back history. when the pandemic started at dollar generals i cannot soup was one dollar. the pandemic hit. it went up to $1.25. then it went up to $1.35. the pandemic is over. there is no shortage is nowhere. now that same can of soup cost you $1.65. a little can of pringles cost you two dollars. used to be a dollar. the government says there's been a 7% increase. well, to me, i'm not the

brightest bulb in the pack but it goes up to one dollar 62 five cents, that's a 65% increase. i don't get it. if you think this is about over, i don't care who's president, if you think this price increase is over, you're crazy. where do you think these millions of people coming in are going to stay? do you see these empty houses around anywhere? where are they going to stay? rent is going to go through the roof. housing is going to go through the roof. host: howard in ohio finishing off this hour looking at your financial situation in the last three years. if you did not have a chance to call, join us in the 9:00 hour and we will do this again. you can comment on the same. if you have been joining us all

week, we have been in the middle of an author's week featuring authors of various political stripes over the last few days. joining us in the next segment is michael barone, senior political analyst for the washington examiner. he will talk about his latest book, "mental maps of the founders: how geographic imagination guided america's revolutionary leaders." we will have that discussion when washington journal continues. >> all next week book tv's afterwards is in prime time. a program where nonfiction authors are interviewed by journalists, legislators and more on the latest boo.

watch all this week in primetime at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. also, go to c-span.org to get the complete schedule. american history tv saturday on c-span 2. exploring the people and events that tell the american story. a look at the life and evolving legacy of robert oppenheimer, father of the atomic bomb. speakers include oppenheimer biographer, washington post reporter jd young and department of energy advisor --. and 9:00 the presidency, a discussion about the lifelong friendship of gerald ford and jimmy carter who were rivals during the 1976 presidential campaign but found common cause in the decades after they left the white house. exploring the american story.

watch american history tv saturdays on c-span 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch on light anytime at c-span.org/history. >> -- your unfiltered view of politics. a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this.

announcer: washington journal continues. host: for the next hour we are going to continue one in the series we've been doing your washington journal. we feature top writers from a variety of political spectrums and talk about policy and political topics. joining us today, michael malone, a senior political law -- and his latest book is called " mental maps of the founders: how geographical imagination guided america's revolutionary leaders." thank you for your time once again. guest: thank you for having me, i appreciate it very much.

host: so many books about the founders of the decades, but your approach is much different. what guided this? guest: i have read many of the wonderful books that have been written by academic it nonacademic historians, some of the bestsellers, many scholarly breakthroughs, and i wanted to learn more about it. as my friend lou cannon once told me, if you want to learn more about a subject, write a book about it. so i thought what can i contribute to the study of the founding fathers? i decided that it was their geographical orientation, their maps. we all carry with an airhead mental maps of where we go, how we get to the shopping mall, how we get to work, where america's position is north america, so forth.

different people have different mental maps. and so i explored the works about and by the founding fathers with a view toward trying to write essays, six essays as it turned out on what each of six founding fathers geographical orientation, their mental maps. because remember, in the 18th century and early 19th century when they were forming the american revolution, they didn't know what the new country would be like. they didn't know that it would be 13 colonies which would become 13 states. they didn't have accurate maps of the great expanse of north america. they had to indulge their geographical imagination to some extent, and their geographical scholarship. and what we see in these different founding fathers is they have different maps, mental maps.

they have different geographic orientations just as each of us has different geographical orientation for friends that we know, relatives and so forth. and so this book mental maps of the founders is an attempt guide this and the historian gordon wood, one of the last of the great generation of colonial academic historians said nobody else has taken this particular approach to the founders. so i hope i was able to contribute something in the way of original thought and perspective. host:ou said the maps in tradl historictlases show marking palooka sovereignty in north america. they convey certainty and settlement. the essays that comprise this book are attempts to understand

what these extraordinary individual mental maps looked like, how they changed in response to events, and circumstances, actions and responses. we will talk about specific founders but when you look at the mental maps, what tends to shape the most? location, geography, economics? guest: i think what shapes the maps often because their own personal interests and experiences. my first essay on the founders is on benjamin franklin, who set up a printing business in philadelphia and printed richard's almanac which i think first came out in the 1720's. and he was selling it up and down to the different colonies. most of the colonial americans stayed put in one colony or another or went back and forth from one colony to great britain.

franklin had been to many. he grew up in massachusetts, made his way to philadelphia. his professional career in philadelphia. but he sold his almanac to english speakers of it down the british coastal colonies, and even in the west indies. he franchised other printers for a share of the profits. in multiple colonies. so he was doing business, and very successfully doing business in a number of the different colonies. and when war was looming with france in 1755, he printed what may happen pretty political cartoon in north america, a picture of a snake cut into segments with each segment labeled with the abbreviation of a different colony. in the legend underneath it was unite or die. the british colonies were going to fight france, they had to unite.

this was the beginning of an idea, the germination of an idea that would flower at the united states of america. the idea that the colonies rate unity rather than separate colonies founded by separate proprietors and people with separate religions. host: if you want to ask them about his book, republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independent, (202) 748-8002. if you want the texas her thoughts, (202) 748-8003. as you are researching each of these founders, what materials do you go to to get an inkling of what those maps consist of? >> you go to the source, you read biographies, of course, and narratives of the course of the american revolution and the early republic.

you naturally read some of the writings of the founders themselves, washington's farewell address, which is adapted from a draft by alexander hamilton with some adaptation from an earlier draft by james madison. i read jefferson's notes on virginia, a book that i had not read before. i read through all of the federalist papers, reading separately first the federalist papers written by alexander hamilton or attributed to him, and then the one attributed to james madison. the five papers attributed to john jay with a view toward understanding the different perspectives of hamilton on the one hand and madison on the other. so using original documents, and the sources of biographies, and

trying to use a certain amount of mental imagination myself. naturally over the course of the years i revisited the homes of the founding fathers that are preserved, for the most part, pretty wonderful ways. visited some of the places that they traveled to and they are distant places. not only jefferson's monticello, but the second home they built in poplar forest near present-day lynchburg, virginia, 100 miles away. tried to get a sense of my imagination of the world that they were seeing. when some of that world is preserved pretty well, like some of the red-brick street in alexandria, virginia, old town alexandria was laid out by a young surveyor named george washington who lived in the area

, and others we have to simply use our imagination to try to imagine what manhattan island and brooklyn were like when washington was leaving american troops in what turned out to be a retreat from new york city. post: we will talk about washington in a bit, but let's hear from clarence from florida. you are on with our guest michael barone. florida, go ahead, you are first up. caller: good morning. i'm very much enjoying the segment. i wanted to ask a few questions about thomas jefferson because i admire the personal qualities of jefferson, but i'm critical on him on a few issues. a couple things when he was serving as minister france in the 1780's, i thought that jefferson was naive about the french revolution.

he was actually one of the turley architects, and i don't think he recognized that it was different from the american revolution. and of course, by the time to the rate of terror, he is the united states the secretary of state. i thought he was naive about that i also find was naive about shay's rebellion he didn't recognize that we needed a stronger central government. i know he kind of dismissed it, but i don't think he recognized that the articles weren't adequate. i have a couple of criticisms of his presidency. you've course placed the embargo act, which banned trade with all countries in response to britain and france by letting american neutral shipping rights which they trade with all countries, and this devastated the united states and led us into a depression. and then he changed it in the last days of his presidency which only banned trade with --.

why didn't he do that in the beginning? why didn't he do that in 1807? host: a lot of aspects about jefferson, we will just respond. guest: well, i guess i would agree with many of the judgments that the caller is making about thomas jefferson. he is sometimes a kind of maddening figure. and i think we all have a tendency when we read hisry of the early republic to see battles between the federalists and republicans, as jefferson called group. we tend to take a side on that. the fact is they were grappling with very difficult matters. the founders also they hated political parties and the whole idea of political parties, unlike edmund burke in england who had defended that concept, but they quickly gave political

parties over substantial issues. hamilton's financial program is very serious and very successful in my view. they were principled objections to it from james madison, thomas jefferson among others. and they were facing what turned out to be a 22 year world war between revolutionary france and mercantile britain. france had been our revolutionary war ally. britain we shared certain cultural ties and also our main commercial ties, and so it was sort of natural americans would dispute about what side they should be on in that war, and jefferson's embargo was not very successful, as the caller says, and one thing i thought, thomas jefferson's mental map. what was his view of the continent?

and a couple very interesting things when i did my reading. number one, thomas jefferson actually didn't travel very much. george washington when he went over the blue ridge and appalachia rydges pittsburgh as a young man with the british army, general braddock's, but even before that as a surveyor was following in map made in 1751 by two surveyor's name joshua fry and peter jefferson. peter jefferson was thomas jefferson's father, the map came out when thomas jeffersonas eight years old. his father had range well beyond the ue ridge to find the source of the potomacnd getting the boundaries of e grant of land that went from the chesapeake bay to the source of the rivers in the mountains of what is now west virginia. thomas jefferson never went that r st. he was a man who like to

contemplate the world in lae part from this study, from the house that he felt, the little house on the top of the mountain, monticello, where he arrangedverything and rearranged it, and rearrange he was constantly rebuilding it when he ought his new wife up to monticello. they only had one room with a roof o it. he was in the process of rebuilding it by further activity. the monticello that bc when we visit today is one of the later iterations of it. by indian artifacts that lewis and clark brought back from their expeditions over the rockies to the pacific, and expedition thomas jefferson set them out on. to go beyond the u.s. territory of louisiana, all the way to the pacific, so he had his eyes on the west, but he didn't actually

spend much time going very far west. he went beyond the blue ridge, which is visible from his vicinity in charlottesville virginia. only rarely in his life. p traveled only once across the ocean to france where he dressed very elaborately in expensive clothes and contemplated the contrast to his predecessor, benjamin franklin, dressed as a woodsman purposefully to present the french with an image of an american who was a primitive country, not a scientist and so forth. but jefferson basically was not a military man. he was not an orator. he was most at ease in a small company of people that he dominated. so jefferson's view of the world

was -- his mental maps definitely went to the west, but they were theoretical. so his notes on virginia, he presents at the beginning of the book a map based on the one drawn by his father, peter jefferson and joshua fry, adapted with later discoveries. he describes much of not only rginia, but westward territory. he is writing in the 1780's, when the mississippi river is the theoretical western fabric united states, he starts describing the missouri river to the west, and he tells you how many miles it is from santa fe to mexico city, and pretty accurately, as a matter of fact, but missing from that book is almost entirely the atlantic coast. missing from entirely, although he goes beyond the boundaries of virginia and some of the other states, missing from entirely is new england and the american

shipping industry and the commercial industry that was so important to some of the other founding fathers. so jefferson's mental map is one that is looking west, bidding others to go west. but he is staying put in his study where he is bringing the world in toward his viewpoint that is centered on himself. host: dominic in canada, democrat line, go ahead. caller: i've got a big question because you are missing a whole gap of history that depends on you ignoring history. that is my problem right now is that you are ignoring a whole bunch of history and how you work in this world. and it doesn't jive with me.

like, i don't like it. and i see you as an enemy. and somebody that i may be -- host: if you have an issue, then what is the question you would like to address to the guest? caller: this boy, he is old as dirt. host: ok. let's go on to montana, independent line, you are next up. caller: i have a couple questions. one, does your book go into ben franklin's germans, and how did each one of the founders view the constitution? if they were alive today what do you think they would think about social security? you know? you know, those are my questions. you have a good day but i just really hope you get into the ben franklin's germans. guest: will benjamin franklin, he didn't like the germans.

they were heavy on the ground in his home state of pennsylvania most of his life. he took a political part in pennsylvania where the original proprietor of pennsylvania, william penn was a quaker and he recruited pacifists settlers. he sent people to recruiters and down the rhine in german-speaking territories to attract members of the mennonite and other sects that believed in pacifism, who settled in pennsylvania. franklin expressed concern that these people would not be assimilated into the english-speaking colonies. of course, that turned out to be generally speaking not true. you still of course can see the amish, whose population numbers

are increasing in pennsylvania, part of ohio, indiana, who have distinctive lives, but they also artistically american. and among the products of the mennonite and other pacifist immigration to colonial pennsylvania as general and president dwight d. eisenhower, whose mother was a pacifist and a little dismayed that he went to west point. one of the things franklin gave us was a demographic picture of the future of the 13 colonies. he made calculations about the high birth rate in a relatively long lifespan and healthy conditions and high calorie counts of colonial americans, and he predicted that in 100 years, the american colonies would have more english-speaking

inhabitants of the british isles. he turned out to be right. just about on the nose. thomas jefferson made similar demographic predictions, and his efforts were to try to unify the colonies. he spent much of the time between the british wars with french in the 1750's, which the british side was largely successful, and the revolutionary period to try to persuade the british, and he was living in london most of this time, to provide a separate government for the north american colonies, to provide something like what would become the dominion status that canada achieved in the 19th century and australia and new zealand, south africa later in the 19th, early 20th century.

he wasn't successful in that and he returned to philadelphia and was one of the signers of the declaration of independence. but one of the key things about franklin's mental map with that he saw the colonies as a unit. he was selling poor richard's almanac up and down the atlantic seacoast. he was promoting the evangelical preacher going up and down the colonies. and as a commercial proposition, despite the fact that he was not deeply religious, became a friend of the evangelical preacher in what historians have called the first great awakening , and he published his journals and sold them for a price. but he had a sense of the unity of the colonies, which was not inevitable. remember that they had different origins.

they had different religious origins in particular, at a time when british-speaking english speakers were very much used to a history of violent religious warfare for 100, 150 years. and so you would have calvinist new england, anglicans created virginia, the carolinas. you had a quaker proprietor of pennsylvania, a catholic proprietor of maryland, and you had the dutch starting new york and having religious tolerance with all kinds of people. so franklin, like the others, recognized the cultural variety of the colonies. one of the things that struck me while i was writing this book is that they did not share the view that the colonies were culturally uniformed.

many people today say well, america just became culturally diverse just a few years ago. we've got to celebrate our diversity because we were never diverse before. the answer is we were diverse in colonial periods, culturally diverse, and the founding fathers dealt with that, recognize that. washington recognized it that handling new lynn troops was different from handling virginia troops. the founders when they were writing the constitution, the first amendment recognized that you needed religious toleration and religious neutrality on the part of the federal government. not favoring or disfavoring the religious establishments that you had in different states or the disestablishment of religion in virginia, for example. you had to accommodate the cultural variety of the country and provide a loose federal structure in some respects so

that this unity of colonies, which was not inevitable, could take effect and effective. host: georgia, independent line. caller: yes, good morning, and thank you to c-span as we close out this year for allowing the mental voice maps of the constituencies and citizens of our country to come forward. i really love the mental map phrasing, a longtime commentator and writer that i have followed and listen to because he has been a part of the nation voices. i think that the previous question is a wonderful segue to this, because we are now facing cultural -- we live in a multicultural society. cultural variety, religious neutrality of states.

it brings to mind that we are we have full immigration, full cultural variety that we live in. we have full religious differences in terms of different states that now are operating as large structures of the constructs that when people have the mental map, which is cultural, educational, roaches specific, which is social, which is religious. so many people, the previous question intersects with his mental map. i just came out of charleston with the preservation society. charleston being one of the 13

colonies, settlements, and also visiting williamsburg where you're talking about the mental maps. the structural maps. so i'm very familiar with this and i have been fascinated for years how new york and boston and particularly charleston. also, the international slavery museum with wreckage from slave ship the wreckage from barbados slave ships, the wreckage -- host: i don't mean to interrupt for the sake of time, what would you like to address specifically? caller: now, around the fullness of our founders couldn't imagine the creation, the diversity of immigration, the diversity of religion, technological innovative advancements and how

it is that the previous caller was so, it seems to me, forlorn into seeing a bright future. they are going -- host: ok, thank you very much for the question. did the mental maps change when it comes to matters of diversity, or matters of inclusion of the various parts of the united states? >> i think the mental maps of the founders included the idea that you did have religious and cultural diversity and it was a big contrast with the european traditions that were part of their heritage and provided the examples of what they knew. most of the continent of europe with the exception of the netherlands and a few odd places , you had the religion of the ruler and that was the religion of the people, and there was one religion in those particular states.

britain had a tradition of toleration of more religions. you had a state religion and you had to belong to that state religion if you wanted to be a justice of the peace or a colonel in a regiment or a member of parliament. the founders created a nation where they purposefully put in the constitution we do not have a religious test for office. there was a religious test in england, you had to be a member of the church in england. the founders took another view. you do not have to have a religious test. george washington on his tour of the northern states that he took as president when he went to newport, rhode island went to a jewish congregation, a synagogue , a tour of a synagogue where he gave an address where he said that it is no more that toleration is spoken of, it is one dominant group tolerating a religious minority, but in fact everybody is equal here.

all peaceable citizens are equal in whatever their religion, sit under their figtree in peace. that is an important statement. he also visited ultimately the jewish congregation in charleston, which the caller made reference to. so did the founders expect a massive immigration from eastern and southern europe of the sort we had in 1892-1914, the ellis island years? well, i think they might have had some idea that something was going on. among the other people who came to aid washington's army were lafayette from france, baron von choi the -- a drilled in from germany who is probably gay as a matter of fact. in polasky, the polish patriots

who came even as poland was being divided by the surrounding empire and came to aid the american revolution. and you will see their names on places of colonies and cities and towns throughout much of the united states, north and south. so they had some contemplation that people might -- from backgrounds that were then unusual in the colonies might come over. benjamin franklin as one of the earlier callers noted, had some qualms about german speakers coming over, adding that a different language culture growing up in the country, the thomas jefferson when he approved the purchase of louisiana in 18 of three was a little lynneice by the fact that you had a lot of french speakers there. louisiana set up a system of law which is based not on the

english common law as the other urgent states had laws based on that. but on the code of law that ultimately becomes the code napoleon of europe which most of continental european law is based on. so they had some concerns about diversity and how to accommodate it. but they also set up a framework to accommodate it, and i think that is worth keeping in mind. in my view, one of the arguments for limiting government and to the wary of expanding government powers is that in a diverse nation, you are in danger of, to using metaphor, stepping on some people's toes when you do that. the framework of the constitution which provides for a vigorous government that is able to provide military

protection for its country and for its national and they are abroad as they work commercially as shippers and salesman and sailors and merchants from the colonial periods, if vigorous government, but one which would also leave some parts of life alone. congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. those are the words to the first amendment. james madison seems to have written prohibiting the free exercise thereof is a phrase that he came up with in the course of being against the established religion and being -- getting rid of the established religion in his home state of virginia, and then those words find their way into our first amendment. no log regarding an

establishment of religion. that means there would be no federal religion. it meant that the states could decide whether to have established religion or not. connecticut maintained one until 1818, massachusetts until 1833 where you pay taxes to the government is for a church. madison and jefferson in virginia abolished the established church. they thought it was a form of tyranny, but they recognize that people in other states may take different views and that it would be dangerous in a diverse country to try to force too much uniformity. how much uniformity is dangerous, how much is helpful? they understood that there would be disputes about that. they didn't have a debate about anything quite like social security at that -- in those days. but there was a recognition that

there would be disputes about the limits, so they construct a constitution as madison did more than anyone else to deal with a convention in defending it in defending the federalist papers, in which different branches of government would have an incentive to check other branches of government. there the conflict between federal government and state government. you would try to contain ambition by ambition. and to provide care about our last -- countervailing powers that you would avoid trying to impose too much can with their recognized was a culturally diverse country. host: our geographic imagination guided america's reactionary leaders, joining us as part of this office we can talk about it. how to george washington the survey or impact america

particularly through his mental maps? >> one of the things that fascinated me as i worked on the research for this book is how important certain contingencies were. things that might easily have gone the other way in setting the course for america. the career of george washington's full of examples. george washington was not one of the rich standing fathers. jefferson, his father died when he was 14 was a rich man for the rest of his life. washington with the son of a second marriage so he didn't inherit very much at all. he was a teenager on land owned by lord fairfax who had taken control of this grant from 1649, all the land between the rivers from chesapeake bay to their

sources of in the mountains. nobody knew where the sources were until jefferson's father peter jefferson went and surveyed them. in washington was hired by lord fairbanks to do surveying. he was hired at age 16 and 17 to accompany surveyors to go out into this wilderness and he went out beyond the blue ridge by age 18. buying his first acreage in the shenandoah valley from money that he made doing surveys for fairfax. he is living with his older half-brother lawrence washington, has married into the fairfax family, extended family and is building a house that he is naming after his commanding admiral, admiral edward vernon. george washington is out as a surveyor. he knows the frontier country and with the house of burgesses says we want to have somebody to

go out and follow the command of king george ii and tell the french not to advance their forces from the great lakes to the forks of the ohio or the allegheny and the 90 rivers, where pittsburgh is today, who are we going to send? and they said we will send this young washington, who knows this frontier. we will send him over there. and he is sent over there at age 21, 22, ultimately with general braddock's troops who suffer braddock's defeat near pittsburgh. he brings the troops back on the retreat. but this gives washington the military experience, the frontier experience and the actual military command experience that few colonists had. the british army had that

experience, they didn't want to have colonists in their ranks. washington himself was reject -- projected from the royal navy. so when the second continental congress meeting was 1775 and they are choosing a commander of the continental army that is operating in massachusetts, john adams in massachusetts get out and says i nominate colonel george washington of virginia, in washington, who had appeared in that continental congress as a delegate wearing his military uniform, blue for the militia, excepts his command, insisting that he is not really qualified for it but that he will do his best, and he takes command. so what if lord fairfax had not perfected his land grant in northern virginia which he litigated for 11 years in london before he comes back and hires

george washington? what if george washington had not had that experience in the frontier? what if we had not had in george washington and military leader who as a general resigned his commission, who obeys the commands of the continent the congress, however difficult they may be, who refuses to march on the continental congress when they want to procreate money to pay the troops, who resigned his commission two days before christmas in 1783 and goes back to his farm, who becomes a president of the united states chosen unanimously and then chooses to retire once again to his farm. crafting his resignation, from thinking george the third to say if he does that, if the greatest man in the world. he had a respect for the rule of law, he had a respect for civil authority, he had a respect for

electives and representatives of government, and he knew that he was setting a precedent. other military leaders had taken over governments and impose their own rule. napoleon does that in the decade after george washington's death in france and much of europe. george washington had a different idea and he set a precedent that was of exceeding importance of the united states, and i would argue also the world. what if we had had a man of different character with different beliefs, without the strength of character that george washington had? if those things had not happened. so lord fairfax's hiring a 17-year-old boy as a surveyor which had tremendous consequences for the united states and the world.

we are the beneficiaries of that, not because we are such wonderful people, but because washington was such an extraordinary man and circumstances as well as his own character made him one of the leaders of this country. host: we will hear from jason in san diego, democrats line. caller: jason here, merry christmas and happy new year to everybody. i remember when i was in school as a young guy, we studied geography and restudied the map on the sphere sitting in the middle of the room, and it was only of the united states. the one thing in particular that caught me was there was a deep, bold text. it went about one third of the

united states from east to west. it was called the mason-dixon line. and whenever i hear summer lee say something about deep states, the only name that comes to mind to me is those states that are below the mason-dixon line. but who is mason-dixon, and why was this line inscribed on our maps? guest: mason and dixon were surveyors in the colonial period and they were hired, as i recall, by the colonial authorities in the colonies of pennsylvania and maryland to establish a boundary between pennsylvania and maryland. remember, the colonists were very eager to fight and control land, but they also wanted to set up court houses very carefully so they knew whose property was whose and whose property was into.

it still appears on the map, the mason-dixon line is still there. it becomes important in many ways because of the slavery issue. one of the things that was pounded into my head as i was reading about the founding fathers was that they had, and their own personal lives and in their public careers experienced a change in attitude toward slavery. franklin, washington, jefferson at the beginning of their careers took slavery for granted, owned slaves, regarded this as something that was an ordinary part of life. there is no antislavery movement except among some of the quakers who actually owned slaves. but the revolution starts to change that. and as the historian gordon what has written i think very persuasively, they changed it.

british author samuel johnson said why do we hear the cries of liberty from the drivers of negros, from the people who are slaveholders? that made an impact on the founders. they were talking about liberty and they started thinking well, maybe this applies to slaves as well. and they started thinking that slavery was basically wrong. franklin becomes a supporter of the abolition of slavery. george washington takes great trouble in the last years of his life to take advantage of virginia laws that allowed you to free or slaves, and he writes out personally in long hand in his own writing these legal documents, making sure they are legally sound to free his slaves and provide sustenance for the rest of their lives. the state of pennsylvania legislature in the 1780's, the

legislatures of connecticut and rhode island, the courts of massachusetts and new hampshire provide for the abolition of slavery, its gradual abolition. not the way we would write it today. but it is nonetheless a movement in the direction of getting rid of slavery. and that applies ultimately to new york, follows suit under governor john jay in 1799. new jersey kind of a laggard on these things. as a result of this, the movement to abolish slavery does not go farther. in practical terms, in delaware it turns out, 94% of the african-descended residents who stayed in delaware are not slaves anymore. half of the african-descendant residents of maryland are not slaves by 1860, but that mason-dixon line with the line

between pennsylvania and maryland, between a statement abolished the gradual abolition of slavery and a state that did not have legal abolition of slavery. and so it was a boundary and a sense between north and south, between free territory and slave territory, and it is used as a shorthand for that boundary. when you get west of pennsylvania, the ohio river becomes the boundary between slaves and free territory in the pre-civil war period. but it is an interesting instance of power. i should add that the founding father alexander hamilton, who grew up on the island of six roy in the west indies as a young man, tragic upbringing, father deserves the family, mother dies. his guardian commits suicide. he is working at age 17 for merchants and a shipping

merchant in the sugar colony, the merchants go away. hamilton is running the whole shot himself, commanding sea captains to do things. his vision, his mental map of the world is the map of merchant ships crossing the ocean different ways. he's much less interested in the american west and more interested in encouraging commerce, shipping, finance and what he considers to be the enrichment of the territory. most people at the time of the founding didn't have the sustained economic growth. he was also always an opponent of slavery, having grown up in a colony where 90% of the people were slaves. he didn't like slavery. he was always against it. so you had a movement against slavery.

so i think that this is an important correction to what some people have presented in american history, a view that american history is all about imposing slavery, that you didn't have any substantial opposition to slavery for a very long time. i think that it is a more complicated proposition than that, and that the american revolution in the context not just of the united states, but really of the world and of the european-dominated world, the world of the european colonies represented a movement in the direction of getting rid of slavery. it's not entirely successful, tragically, but it was what we consider today to have been the right direction. host: independent line, go ahead. caller: thank you so much for this opportunity.

i thought about the multiple mentions of religion and also the reference to the declaration and finally now slavery pops up. i would like to ask you about the entirety of u.s. -- which is on the first page of our personal book in the courthouse library, and that mentions two laws. and according to jefferson and sir william blackstone that instructed jefferson and their founders, there are two laws. and of those, no human laws should be separate to contradict these. and i think because we are violating those two laws, pure contradicting those two laws, we are becoming slaves. do you know the actual names of the two laws? guest: no, you go ahead and

answer the question, sir. caller: it is referred to as creation and the laws of nature's guide, which is the revealed law of the bible. and the reason is the first sentence in the entirety of u.s. law, is it is the other foundation of our law and of those, most human laws should be suffered to contradict creation or the bible. guest: well, it's interesting. that blackstone would publish this commentary on english law i believe in 1765, and it was a document which of the american founders knew very well, in particular the founders who were trained as lawyers, as jefferson was, as hamilton was. and many others.

this was important. the heritage of the english common law continued to be important, and i think one of the things that we see in the constitution just as you saw in the conduct of george washington was a sense that it was important to accept the rule of law and limited government. washington as a general was urged to march on the continental congress and forced into appropriate money to pay the troops as they have promised to do. they have broken their promises. his general said you have a moral right to do that. washington said basically no. we can't do that. that is not our role. we have to accept the command of the civilian elected authority. and the rule of law is again

made reference to in the constitution and in the various amendments to the constitution, some of which concerns specific issues that have been raised in english law. you cannot be forced to incriminate yourself to be a witness against yourself. you have a right to a jury trial. you have a right to freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. a right to grand jury indictment. this comes out of a case in 1683 in england. and something that the founders knew very well. they were revolutionaries, but they sought to have a revolution that also observed a rule of law , that can be depended on. that people would honor even to their own disadvantage.

and even when the circumstances seemed really compelling to do something different. and they set an example, which i believe we are lucky that they did set. that we ought to be striving to live up to. and perhaps sometimes fail to do so. host: in writing the book and all the history and research that you've done for it, how has your own mental map changed? guest: my own mental map has changed in part because seeing that is important to have people that have different mental maps. think about hamilton and jefferson. jefferson as a pointed out earlier in the program was always looking west. from out of his beautiful little house on the mountaintop, monticello, he was looking to the west.

hamilton takes a different view. hamilton at one point in his description says if you look at the colonies under left hand, you have new england on the right hand, you have the carolinas in the south. if your left-handers in new england and your right hand is in carolinas, you are looking out over the atlantic ocean. so when it came to financial policy, when it came to foreign policy, hamilton is interested in fostering commerce. international commerce and commerce between states. having a rule of law that does that, setting up in military and a navy in particular to protect american commercial interests abroad when americans are shipping abroad. he is favoring britain, our great commercial partner this period and so forth. jefferson is looking to the west

and who imposes an embargo on congress, absolutely stops foreign commerce for a year and a half, or tries to. wasn't always effective. he's looking west and he sees a different thing. he's against having a bank of the united states. he doesn't understand why you would need a finance system to finance interstate and foreign commerce, as hamilton argues that you do. so there are different ways to see things, and depending on your mental math, you are liable to favor different policies and to have interests which are difficult to reconcile. one of the things you get out of the founding periods of the early republic is that jefferson opposes the bank of the united states and madison opposes it, but madison faced with possibility of war in 1812 thanks we ought to keep the national bank, which they don't keep for a while, but then they

reinstitute after the war of 1812. jefferson doesn't initially see much need for a navy. we don't need it, but he sends out the navy against the pirates , and is threatening to use it if the french don't sell us new orleans in1803. -- in 1803. those policies can become reconciled by events, if you will, for by leadersthe virtue's policies while after the time when hamilton left office and what he was killed in a duel. they continued to oppose hamilton. they adopted a lot of his policies. not all but more than they would have originally expected. host: there is more in the book "mental maps of the founders: how geographic imagination guided america's revolutionary leaders." michael barone, the author,

senior clinical analyst for the washington examiner. happy new year to you. guest: thank you very much for having me on and happy new year to you and all of your callers. host: we will go back to the question which we arted this mornin asking about your persal financial situation. how have you been doing over the last three years? if you are better off an three years ago, call and tell us why at (202) 748-8000. if you sayou are worse off, (202) 748-8001. the numb to call or ifou think you are the same, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when washington journal continues. ♪ >> weeknights at 9:00 eastern, c-span's encore presentation of our series books that shaped america. c-span partnered with the

library of congress to explore key pieces of literature who had a key impact in our country. we will feature the 1937 novel "their eyes were watching god," and our guest is tiffany ruby patterson, professor of history at vanderbilt university. watch c-span's encore presentation of books that shaped america weeknights at 9:00 eastern on c-span, or go to c-span.org/booksthats hapedamerica to learn about each book featured. >> c-span's studentcam documentary competition is celebrating 20 years with this year's theme of looking forward while considering the past. we are asking middle and high school students to make a video addressing one of these questions. in the next 20 years, what is the most important change you would like to see in america?

or, over the past 20 years, what has been the most important change in america? as we do each year, we are giving away $100,000 in total prizes with a grand prize of $5,000. every teacher who has students participate in this year's competition has the opportunity to share a portion of an additional $60,000. the competition deadline friday, january 19, 2024. for information, visit studentcam.org. >> friday nights watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly round of campaign coverage providing a one-stop shop to discover whether candidates are traveling across the country and what they are saying to voters. this along with first-hand accounts from political reporters, updated poll numbers, fundraising data and campaign ads. watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail friday nights at 7:00

eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org, or download it as a podcast on c-span now, our free mobile app, but wherever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed, our republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are, because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: where are you financially compared to three years ago or roughly the start of the biden administration? here's how you can tell.

if you say you are better off than three years ago, give us a call at (202) 748-8000. if you say you are worse off, (202) 748-8001. the number to call. perhaps you are the same financially. you want to tell us why. (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. post on facebook and x as well. we should do this earlier. a recent poll done by the financial times and the university of michigan. only 14% of american voters believe they are financially better off since president biden entered office. a couple of factors. the poll takes in 70% of voters thinking the current president's economic policies have hurt the economy or had no impact. 33% saying they hurt the economy a lot. it adds 82% of respondents cited

price increases as their primary financial stress. perhaps that is something you can factor into. many previous callers talked about the prices they pay, some talked about jobs, somtalked about savings. factor all those things in if you want. if you're better off than u were three years ago, (202) 748-8000. if you areorse off, (202) 748-8001. if you are the same, (202) 748002. the front page of the washington post talks about economic growth in the new year, this new year. retail sales leading up to the holidays. sales between november 1 and a december 24 up comparatively year ago. online shopping accounted for a large share of the increased,

rising 6.3% compared to a 2.2% jump or in person shoppers. apparel sales roles and a strong demand for in person dining, a jump in restaurant spending. that's an aspect of economic -- the economic snapshot. april in indiana says better off than three years ago. april, you start us off. caller: i am living financially better than i have ever lived in my entire life. i have a great job. i have a great income. prior to that i had a lot of financial problems. i struggle to pay bills. i can go to the grocery store and i don't look at prices. i justby -- i just buy what i want to buy. not long ago i had serious

illness. health insurance is great. i think this is the best economy that i can ever remember living in ever. host: what changes made it better? caller: i think what made it better is, you know, there are more job opportunities. folks are not able to work remote, work hybrid. i have seen so many friends that if they are not happy with their job within a couple of months they can get a new job. host: ok. caller: it's good. it's very good. i really wish more people would embrace the great economy that we have. to be able to go into the store and you don't really worry about things -- host: did you get it -- is that because of a new job or financial gain? caller: i think it's because i've been able to save money. i have been able to -- like i

said, i have a really good job. two years ago, i had an ok job. i was making pretty good money. now the economy is really great. host: kirk up next in virginia says he is worse off. caller: good morning. i live in a rural area. i'm retired on a fixed income. when it comes to inflation i don't trust the government statistics. i go to the grocery store. you see things like brand x oatmeal doubling in price over the last two years. when you see that kind of basic commodity like that go up to that extent that is hurting a lot of middle-class folks. the government inflation numbers on food is 12%, whatever. that's a joke. host: are you saying it as food prices that make it worse for you particularly? caller: food. interest rates. young couples can no longer

afford to build their first house. it's now $500,000. that's in the course of the last three years. host: kirk in richard svile. valerie says she is better off. valerie in saginaw? caller: hi. i am better off. i can leave my house without fear of covid. prices have always going up. i'm old enough to remember one a five cent candy bar mid something. potato chips. throughout my lifetime -- i'm 71 -- prices of always going up. it has nothing to do with the president. people have to adjust and learn how to live in their budget.

my daughter, my granddaughters, my grandkids are doing wonderful. i'm retired. i live on a fixed income. i stay in my lane. i don't want to go and buy things, a new car. i remember when you get a new car for under $5,000. i remember when gas was not even a dollar a gallon. things have always gone up. it has nothing to do with the president. it has to do with the free enterprise and companies raising their prices. we need to stop and learn how our economy works. host: what makes you better off specifically? caller: i got a nice little race last year from social security. -- raise last year from social security and i'm getting a smaller one this year. i medication has gone down.

one is on the list to go down next year that i desperately need. it is over $100 per prescription. not counting my other meds. some meds have gone down to $.32 co-pay. i have really -- i'm really doing much better off. i've fully been retired for maybe two years. -- i have only been retired for maybe two years. host: sue in michigan says same off. caller: hello. i want to wish everybody a merry christmas and happy new year. my situation is this. i'm 70 years old, retired. my husband is still working. we don't blow our money. we watch our money. we buy whatever we want. were not rich. we are in a rural area. we enjoyed ourselves.

we do what we want to do. nothing has affected us. groceries did go up a little bit but i watch what we spent. -- spend. we don't do without. we buy whatever we want to buy. it has not affected me hardly at all. as far as the market goes, the market is going up so i'm happy. that is my situation. host: there are some examples. if you think you are worse off or better off or the same, call the number that best represents you. you can also text us if you wish at (202) 748-8003. there was an announcement from jay powell talking about the fact they will not raise interest rates, at least for now. he was asked about surprises he saw in the u.s. economy. this was a few weeks ago. here is a portion of what jay powell had to say [video] -- say. [video]

>> forecasters were broadcasting a recession 423. that includes fed forecasters and essentially all forecasters. a high proportion of forecasters saw very weak growth in the recession. we actually had a very strong year. that was a combination of strong demand but also real gains in the supply side. this was the year when labor force participation picked up. immigration picked up. the distortions to supply and demand from the pandemic, the shortages, the bottlenecks begin to unwind. we had significant supply-side demand was strong -- just because the healing on the supply side. that was a surprise to just about everybody. the inflation forecast is

roughly what people wrote down a year ago but in a different setting. i would say the labor market because of stronger growth has been significant the better. if you look back at the sep, there was significant increase in on employment. that did not happen. we are still at 3.7%. we have seen strong growth, still a tight labor market but one that is coming back into balance with the support from the supply-side, a greater supply of labor. that is what we have seen. i think that combination was not anticipated broadly. host: if you want to see more of that, it took place on december 13. you can find it on the archives at c-span.org. riya in south carolina says worse off than three years ago. good morning. caller: good morning. the reason i'm worse off than i was three years ago is because i have not received a raise. i have received two raises.

i started full-time in 2019 for the pandemic it. -- just before the pandemic it. i was guaranteed a raise every year for the cost of living. then covid hit. i ended up not getting any raises for all of covid until last year. that coupled with the food cost increase and i'm only making about $2000 a month, there is literally just no ability for me to pull myself out of the hole. i'm having to borrow money just to buy groceries. things that cost two dollars three years ago now cost five or six. it is just really exhausting because i'm working 40 hours a week and i can't afford anything after i finish paying all my bills, my light bill, cable. i live in a camper.

i can't even afford regular rent. paying homage bills, i make $2000 a month. i have maybe 200 and $300 left over every month just to buy groceries. the cost of groceries is so high that it into being $200 to $300. i have to borrow money just to pay my bills. i don't blame joe biden for it. i blame -- is the responsibly of the u.s. government to not be taking care of its people or ensuring we have what is necessary. i know the homeless situation is much higher than it was a few years back. it is because the cost of living has forced people out of homes to live in campers like me or to live on the street because they can't afford rent. it is really frustrating. host: giving us her story there in south carolina. we will hear from alice in

austin, texas. better off than three years ago. caller: how are you? host: go ahead. you are on. caller: i feel like i'm a lot better off than i was three years ago. this year i did not have to pay any co-pay for my insurance. i am retired. i have had all my covid shots. i have great grandkids. one grandson who is getting his fellowship. i had my first great, great granddaughter and everything is going just fine. joe biden is doing a great job. i am a democrat but i also think outside the box. life is just great. host: ok.

alice in texas. joseph in maryland, says he is worse off than he was three years ago. tell us why. caller: good morning and thank you. it's a pleasure to hear your voice. you are a hard worker providing for our world. i hear your voice everyday whenever you are working. that said, we in america -- i'm 54 years old. i have lived in washington, d.c. my entire life. i have been out to florida and texas as a student. our country is doing exactly what the powerful people are trying to make it do. i'm not being cynical. you can read about this stuff. they are getting all of our houses for cheap. all of our people are losing jobs. when you go to the gas station, that comes right out of your kids' and my mouth. wealthier people, it does not affect them the least little bit. i can't even afford to buy

clothes for my children. i'm a grown man. united states of america. i wanted to be an eagle scout. i wanted to be a priest but i liked women too much so that was not my calling. i'm not trying to be funny. on the planet earth we in america, we have everything we everyone and we are starving. we are fighting each other for food. you not think that is the policy the corporations doing that. you think life is good? alice in texas, i'm happy you're happy. but in d.c. and houston, i apologize for being long-winded but i'm flabbergasted. i will shut up, brother. everybody showing patience to each other and nobody chooses their starting point. george bush did not choose his starting point. i will choose my finishing and i will be helpful to the end. pedro, you're an awesome man.

thank you for the work you do. i will get out of everybody's way. we are just stressed and we have to stay focused and we can get through this. host: accu for your input -- thank you for your input. we will continue on for the next 40 minutes or so. if you want to tell your story like alice or joseph or you have a different story than either of those, these are the lines you can call. if you say you are better off than you were three years ago, (202) 748-8000. (202) 748-8001 if you say you are worse off. if you say you are the same, call us at (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. by the way, one of the things we will point out during the course of the hour is the president has traveled to the virgin islands for the new year holiday. we hope to get a little bit of that as he makes his way towards air force one and joins the

airbase. let's hear from dwight in california. he says he's better off than he was three years ago. caller: good morning, pedro, happy holidays to you. your question. your personal financial situation over the past three years, better or worse or the same? i'm a baby boomer. i'm retired. i have been retired eight years. i have three income streams. we went through a pandemic where things were -- it was terrible. nobody was going anywhere. nobody could spend money. gas prices. this is a capital system. it is supply and demand and we had to work through that. when we did work through that and now that we are coming out of it it is not inflation that is killing us. it is price gouging. corporations are making their money back. this capitalist system, you have

to know the financial situation. during the pandemic they were giving away money. interest rates were almost zero. i refinanced my house. i'm at 2.3% because of the pandemic. the market was down. amazon, apple, nvidia was down. i bought stock during that time. i bought apple at $88 a share. now that we are coming up i'm making a lot of money, because the responsibility for my financial situation is me. it is not a politician in washington. it is me knowing how to preserve our money, knowing how to save my money and knowing how to make money. i came from nothing, pedro. i was a labor. i went all the way up to a maintenance division director. this is america. i'm not saying everybody is

going to be in the same situation. the opportunities are here. opportunities are still here if we quit 20 people to take care of yourself -- if we quit wanting people to take care of us. i live in california. it is crazy. gas is over five dollars a gallon. yes, i go to the grocery store. prices are astronomical. i had to find myself in a situation where i can afford it. i'm going to las vegas in a couple of hours. we are going to enjoy ourselves. i'm 71 and of living my best life and i love this place in this country. good luck to everyone and happy new year to you. host: that is dwight. jenny and fort wayne, indiana. says she is worse off than three years ago. caller: hi. i am 60. my husband and i -- he's been laid off about maybe a year ago.

at 60 years old. he was an i.t. he was a project manager. we had our worst year ever. we have been able to save over the years but is not worth much anymore. all your dollar is being eaten by inflation. inflation because from gas wars being led by this president. i think that started it. the free money handouts cause inflation. -- caused inflation. there is a lot going on behind the scenes that is driving up the prices beyond the president but he is the biggest problem. i do think that the country is in a disarray between the foreign things going on. in israel and ukraine.

i don't think the country has ever been as far in the deficit. i think it is just going to get worse. i think the stock market has been held up. i think it is doing ok for the wealthy. i think as long as you have money put back -- we will probably be ok but i'm looking at my kids' future also. it is definitely decreasing everyday. the prices of homes is ridiculous, even in indiana where it is supposed to be cheap to live here. the prices of groceries are astronomical. i used to be a cashier during the pandemic. we were busy, very busy all the time. people would go there just to hang out and talk. we would hear story after story of how they can't get products.

that was in 2021. 2020 was august leave the pandemic itself. -- obviously the pandemic itself. i don't think it is all biden's fault but there is a lot he can do to fix it. host: jenny and fort wayne, indiana giving us her thoughts on what is going on when it comes to economic issues. the way we framed it, your personal financial situation. if you want to tell us and give us your thoughts, if you're better off or worse off for the same. pick a number that best represents you. during the course of this hour we will give you updates on new stories that come across, including this one being reported by abc news. the michigan supreme court wednesday projected an appeal aimed at barring former president trump being on the 22 for ballot -- 2024 ballot.

it rejected an earlier appeal on behalf of a group of michigan voters who sought to remove former president trump from the ballot based on activity serenity attack on the u.s. capitol on january 6. that's a developing story just coming out. that is the headline there. you can find more if you go online. if you were to go to what is known as joint base andrews, the destination of air force one and takes off, you would see the motorcade carrying president biden and those traveling with him to the virgin islands. the president spent the christmas holiday at camp david. he's now heading to the virgin islands. people be back after the new your holiday. -- he will be back after the new year holiday.

we will continue on with your calls as the president boards air force one. joe in tallahassee, florida. economically he is the same. hello. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just want to say that the economy goes back and forth. it is like a pair of scales balanced on one side or the other. for me, i'm doing ok. it did not just happen overnight. i was getting ready to retire. i had 36 years with the u.s. postal service. halfway through there i started making plans with my wife to cut back so we could live within our retirement. since we did that it became greater and better for us. i'm not saying we did not have sometimes when we did not see this coming and you just have to make an adjustment. host: let me pause he first second.

let's watch a little bit of the motorcade pulling up to air force one.

the president and the first lady boarding air force one. they are traveling to the virgin islands for the new year holiday. joe, thanks for holding on from tallahassee. caller: that's quite all right. i appreciate it. everybody complains about how the government is spending money. i'm one of the first ones to say somebody need to take away the checkbook. just balance this off right now. who over the next president is going to be, i don't know who it is, they will have a headache on their hands. at the same time we also have this situation where people are living on credit card debt. people are complaining about the

way the government spends and they themselves don't see how they are spending. there has to be a fixed balance on life with everything we do. i know the first time when i had to go to work, 1965, 1966, there was a transit authority strike. john lindsay was the mayor of the city of new york. it was a mess. what happened, the mayor got a television and said everybody work together, pull together. if you can make it to work, fine. if not it will be accepted. my dad said to me you better go ahead and get your shower now so you can go to work tomorrow. i was living up in the bronx so you can see the distance. but dad, didn't hear the mayor? yes, i heard the mayor. did you hear me? the mayor said we don't have to go to work. no, no, no. he didn't say just sit around. when the mayor pays for the groceries, when the mayor pays

the rent and every thing else, i will listen to the mayor. i did walk and i gained a new respect for myself. i learned this is what part of life is. you deal with the hard situations. when i walked to work at 7:00 in the morning there were all these people walking downtown on wall street and every thing else. it's an experience i went through. there were times when money was good and times when money was not good. you have to learn how the people in 1929 dealt with the depression. how did the families deal when world war ii broke out. there are a lot of things young people don't understand what is happening. i thank god he got me to the place i met right now. he's been looking out for me. thank you for accepting my call. i wanted to ask you something. is there a possibility the moderators of washington journal

could sit down together in a roundtable discussion and people can mail in questions, no calling in. you say here's a question from so-and-so. all you moderators sit down and discuss it. you are informative. you are intelligent. you really can put together a good program. i think it would be one of the most and best, well-informed news media services for people to have. i don't know if you have any say so but maybe you can get together and just replay it each week. i think people would enjoy it. host: we will give you producer credit if we ever go that route. i know the folks in the power -- and the powers that be listen to the audience. thank you for the suggestions. let's hear from virginia and ohio who says she is better off than three years ago. caller: i am better off now than three years ago. i get more interest on my investment.

it has improved my life. many years ago we were savings and we have interest on our investments. we are really doing good. we adjust according to her income how we live -- our income and that is how we live in stead of living off our credit cards. i don't blame the problem. if i don't have money, i can't afford groceries. it's not the president. i blame myself if i cannot afford it. host: bob in ohio says he is worse off. caller: hello. i would say i'm worse off. i am a cashier at a grocery store. along with other jobs i do. it is obvious the prices are three or four dollars and they were just last year.

three or four higher than they were the year before. everyone is suffering. every customer i have says it is hard. the meat and the groceries are going up. the inflation is the worst in 40 years. i don't understand how anyone can say they are better off. i lost quite a bit of money in an investment i had. i lost $4000 in an investment. look at the gas prices. they are two dollars more than they were just last year. four dollars more than they were two years ago. the economy is not very good, at least in this part of the country. i would say it is very bad.

i would blame it on the government and every time it seems like a democrat is in charge the prices go haywire, i would say. we have two wars going on in the world. i would say that is a sign of a weak presidency and weak leadership. host: thanks for that call. he talked about economics. it was not too long ago that nikki haley was in iowa to participate in a forum featuring voters from the state. one of the things she talked about was economic policy, sharing blame for the current state of affairs economically on both republicans and democrats. here's a portion of that from not too long ago. [video] >> we are $34 trillion in debt.

the last three presidents raised our debt 40%. that's an x usable. our kids will never forgive us for this. we are now having to borrow money to make interest payments. china owns some of that debt. we better start getting this right. what did republicans do? i was up to blame this on biden. he sent us down the socialism road that is out of control and dangerous, but republicans did that to us, too. they passed that covid stimulus bill that expanded medicaid, that left us with 100 million americans on medicaid. 42 million americans on food stamps. that's a third of our population. did republicans try to make it right? no. they opened up pet projects for the first time in 10 years, passing through 7000 of them last year. what did they spend our money on? $30 million on an honors college in vermont.

$10 million to tear hotel in alaska. the list goes on and on. in the 2024 appropriations budget republicans put in $7.4 billion worth of earmarks and pet projects. democrats put in $2.8 billion. now you tell me who the big spenders are. we callout everybody because it has got to stop. host: that was nikki haley. you can find that online. a short amount of time ago there was a report on credit card debt. some of you brought it up during the course of the morning. this is from news nation. credit card spending rose in the third quarter at major banks, including 9% at jpmorgan chase and 15% at wells fargo. that's according to the wall street journal. credit card loans and not paying balances on accounts is up nearly 16% of the third quarter at j.p. morgan comparative year ago. -- compared to a year ago.

consumers are taking longer to pay their bills. angela is up next in washington, d.c. financially the same as three years ago. caller: hi pedro. i'm a single person with no dependents. the biggest change has been the price of groceries. i can shop sales and get around that. i wanted to add one thing about the president's trip. do you mind? host: let's keep to the topic. tell us why you are the same off. caller: well, i'm sort of able to stock up so that stuff will last me long enough until the next pay cycle or the next sale basically. host: and the president's trip? caller: i am from st. croix originally. i wondered if you could always specify that the president is going to the u.s. virgin

islands, not the virgin islands. there is also the british virgin islands. host: that's a good point. i appreciate that. thank you, angela. let's go to tony in connecticut. says he is better off. caller: good morning. merry christmas and happy new years to you guys coming up. i'm better off because one janet yellen was saying inflation is not -- i'm an economics major. i knew something was not right. i bought gold. it was down to $1500 an ounce. that was 2000 -- my wife said it was a financial genius because our portfolio was going up. things were going right. now days we are doing ok.

my daughter is having trouble. you can't get the interest rates down forgetting a mortgage -- for getting a mortgage. you were talking about consumer debt. one thing people should know is the consumer debt is at $1.3 trillion. that's a whole lot of money. we are in debt. if you are smart you can make good on it. you can live right. no matter what is going on here, things are so so. if you're smart about what you do -- they say on the statistics, they tell you 70% of the country believes we are going in the wrong direction. i know we have three options for the question. mathematically, we will come up

with things looking pretty good. they are not going to match those statistics. things are not right. personally, they are good because i did not listen to these naysayers and all this stuff. i knew the economy and the democrats would come in they would spend more money. trump was left with obama's great economy. all he did was -- obama left the military stockpiles. host: we will move on to larry in massachusetts. says he is worse off. hi. larry in massachusetts? hello? one more time for larry. we will hear from juan in miami, florida. says he is worse off. caller: definitely worse off. rent is $1000 more than it was

two years ago. property insurance in miami doubled. gas up. groceries up. salary is down. thank you. host: earl in nashville, georgia. says he is better off. hello, earl. caller: merry christmas. i'm retired. i'm 66 years old. when the pandemic struck -- we have to learn how to budget our money that we made. you have peaceful -- people who just go out and spend and spend because the government will take care of them. i have to look for hard times. where i live it now -- i'm 66 years old. i'm retired and i still work, pedro. i still work.

they are begging for people to work. people want the government to take care of them. no. the lord gives us opportunities to do all the things we need to do. all we have to do is motivate ourselves and go out there and get it and sit down with your money. i live in my home, my car is paid for. one thing i want to say, the bible says seek man. man will fail you. we have to learn to seek the lord. i'm a minister also. we have to learn to seek the lord for every thing. we have to put our trust in the lord and read our bible. we can make it. host: a couple of other thoughts to share with you. this is from the chair of the republican national committee ronna mcdaniel talking about

tters of the economy. "joe biden could not be out of any more touch. he was in nantucket for thanksgiving where the median home was $5 million. so disconnected from the everyday plight of americans that he continues to brag about the effects of bidenomics as if icans don't feel the rising prices everyday. to make itet worse from here. measuring the cost of a dozen in the 12 days of christmas hit an all-time high. up another 2.7% after 10% hike last year. the cost of a christmas tree is higher than a year ago. more than one in three americans is skipping christmas presents." when it comes to another perspective on the economy, the washington post writes it's been a miracle year for the u.s. economy. inflation plum without

triggering a recession. the economy has gained 2.4 million jobs this yd growth accelerated 5% in the thirder. there's also the stock market rally. actions don't match words. consumption boom this year.n a in many ways this is the year the economy returned to something "normal," but many people have forgotten what normal looks like after a traumatic few years. suzy from facebook saying prices are higher for everyone in the world. food pceare surging after the russian invio you can post on facebook if you want at facebook.com/cspan. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. you can post on x, @cspanwj.

scott says he is worse off. good morning. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. it's been a couple of months. i have two quick points. i'm 68 years old. i have lived my life working for five dollars to seven bucks an hour. when i made $10 an hour i thought it was the king of the hill. now they have snotty nosed kid starting at $24 an hour plus benefits. i raised a family. everything worked. our life was paid for. we were just going day by day. secondly, with 3.2% social security. i want this going to congress. i make $650 a month. i got a race of $20. -- raise of $20.

give us lower income social security recipients 10% and get the upper echelon the extra -- given to the lower got. -- give it to the lower got. guy. i would hope the legislatures with think about this. i wish everybody in the country a great year. host: pastor -- esther in san antonio. caller: wishing everybody a happy holidays and a coming new year. i feel like i'm better off and i think people are better off, too. at the grocery store i see people with two baskets full of groceries. my friends and their kids are going on cruises. i found a lot of good sales during the christmas holiday. i paid off $19,000 worth of credit card debt last year.

i own my own home. i have food in my freezer right now that i cannot even eat. it goes bad. one think i'm not happy about his insurance rates -- is insurance rates. in texas we have property -- a discount on our property taxes. i'm better off than i've ever been -- i don't feel it. that is all i can say. the stock market stayed high. unemployment is doing really well. people have to learn how to balance. two baskets full of groceries and they are complaining. that is my contribution this morning. host: esther from texas.

on the matters of immigration, out of mexico city, a top u.s. delegation set to meet with mexico's president today on what many see as asking mexico to stem migrants reaching the southwest border. the mexican president is willing to help but he was progress in u.s. relations with cuba and venezuela, the top centers of migrants and develop metal aid for the region. both sides face pressure to reach an agreement after limiting direct travel or deporting migrants failed to stop the influx. this month, as many as 10,000 by country arrested daily in the southwest u.s. border. related story. usa today reports the nation's immigration court backlog swelled by more than one million cases in 2023 as the number of those seeking asylum surged.

that is rising from 1.9 million cases in september of 2022, according to syracuse university's clearinghouse that analyzes federal immigration data. pending immigration cases and people living in chicago are not due to appear in court. judges are grappling with caseloads of more than 4000. that is reporting from usa today. leanne in tampa, florida. she says she is the same when it comes to her financial picture. caller: my name is leanne. i'm here in an assisted living. i'm 77 years old. i grew up not rich but not really poor. i went to work when i was 16 years old. i went to business school also. when i moved to florida when i was 30 years old, around jimmy carter's time, i noticed

everything was bad. gas was expensive because there was a war going on. right now there is a war going on also. but it is not in the united states. people live way beyond their means. the reason why gas is hard right now is because of the war. the ships are trying to go through. now they have to take another route because there is all kind of problems going on. people don't understand you cannot live beyond your means. if you go to the store and you see steak is extensive, you can buy ground beef. you can buy chicken. you can buy store brand names. nothing against del monte, but publix is a little less expensive because it's a storebrand. people live beyond their means today. i know during the pandemic a lot of people did use their credit

cards. they got checks from the government, but they should have saved some of that money. they spent it. i don't think younger people today think there is a tomorrow. they live for today. they have to try and understand. they have children they have to support. it's ok. you can have a birthday party in your backyard like i did. you can make your own birthday cake instead of going and spending $25. host: ok. we got the point. rick in denver says he is worse off. caller: yes. food prices are up. energy is up, including gasoline. your local electrical and gas. insurance. all these things are up. even though we've had some recent -- we are not going to

say reduction in inflation. it's a better term is a reduction in the rate of inflation increase has improved. that has nothing to do with the prices that have already risen. this is why people -- there is a disconnect between the administration and what people are feeling. host: that is rick in denver. again, telling us about his financial situation. some other matters of news. axios saying vivek ramaswamy confirmed tuesday it ceased tv ads ahead of the iowa caucuses and you have your primary. jitter some broadcast -- traditional broadcast makes up a component of political campaigns. the unusual decision to stop spending money on tv ads comes less than a month before the

iowa caucus and new hampshire primary offers a snapshot of the state of the presidential race which has a crowded plate of candidates. the campaign will continue spending other forms of advertising with a new strategy being the result of following data, according to a spokesman. you can see that story on axios that has the caucuses and the primaries coming up next month. be sure to stick close to c-span for coverage of that uninterrupted and uncommented on in iowa and new hampshire. viola in georgia. says she is better off than three years ago. caller: hello. this is viola speaking. i'm better off than i was three years ago. i am retired and i'm 94 years old. i have invested in real estate

at also in the stock market. i have been doing very well. i always look at the bottom line and my net worth, the pennies and dimes i might have to spend at the grocery store. host: aaron from maryland. when it comes to the economic picture he says he is the same as three years ago. caller: i'm doing fine. thanks for taking my call. i want to take a different slant. as far as i'm concerned we are just moving deck chairs around on the titanic. after the presidential election next in 2024, if donald trump wins all hell will break loose. if he loses, all hell is going to break loose. host: why are you the same as three years ago? caller: i'm retired. i have a pension. i'm on social security.

i have zero debt. my house is paid for. i have three cars. my daughter is doing well. my grandkids. to the bigger point, after the 20 for election it is over -- 2024 election it is over. barbara will be the last call from northport, florida. says she is worse off. hello. caller: yes. i wish these people would listen to themselves. they are all having to cut back and do without to to be able to live in their homes that are paid for. the future people will not have homes that are paid for. the border scares me to death. i cannot comprehend 50,000 coming over the border. host: tell us why you are worse off than three years ago. caller: because you have to pinch your pennies. you have to do without some things or not go on a trip or

somewhere you want to because the money needs to go towards the house payment. if they just listened to their own words -- host: specifically, why are you worse off than three years ago? give me a specific. caller: i am living by myself. i am really trying to make ends meet and they are not meeting. specifically, three years ago, things were going along. i had money coming into pay for all the debt and the bills. now i'm getting slammed. you can't do that. host: barbara there in florida finishing off this round of calls. all of you who participated during the course of the morning, thank you for doing so. that is it for our program today. another addition of washington journal comes your way tomorrow at 7:00 a.m.. see you then. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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