host: good morning. it is sunday, january 7. our topic today is immigration. what do you think washington should do about legal and illegal immigration? go ahead, start calling in now.

democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, your number is (202) 748-8001. independents, call us at (202) 748-8002. but, if you live in a border state, we have a special line just for you. we want you to call us at (202) 748-8003. you can send us a text message to that number, (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you live. you can find us on facebook.com/c-span. we are also on x @cspanwj. before we get to some of your calls, let's talk about some of the latest numbers on immigration. this is an article from the washington examiner. the headline says, border crisis hits new high as 320,000

immigrants process in december. it is an article from the washington examiner. i will read a little bit. it says, u.s. immigration officials came across a staggering 300,000 democrats at the southern border in december, making it the highest number of people encountered in a single month in history. u.s. customs and border protection employees stationed at the united states-mexico boundary processed an average of 10,000 immigrants daily for a grand total of more than 300-2000 people processed in december, according to a fox news report monday. again, those are some of the latest immigration numbers. i want to bring up some polling. this is polling conducted by blueprint and you go from this month -- and you gov from this month.

i will show highlights on the screen. the participants were asked when it comes to the rising number of border crossings in the united states, which approach comes closest to their preferences? 20% says increase legal pathways to immigrate to the u.s., but 45% said secure the border and limit illegal entry, but also increase legal pathways. then, 36% said increase border enforcement and make asylums in refugee -- and refugee policies stricter. also from that same poll, there was a question about tightening refugee and asylum rules. 53% said they believe rules before granting asylum or refugee status should be stricter. 33% said, about the same as right now. 14% said they wanted those rules

to be looser. again, we are talking about border immigration policy. i want to bring up one more headline from the new york times. the headline, biden border negotiations mark seismic shift on immigration policies. again, it is from the new york times. this article reads, on his first day in office, president biden sent a bill to congress to "you store ash restore humanity and american values to our immigration system." nearly three years later, he is considering sleeping restrictions on migration in exchange for aid to israel and ukraine. it is the latest sign of how drastic the politics of immigration have shifted in the united states, where polls suggest there is growing support even inside the president's own party for border message once to

doubts by democrats and championed by former president trump. it is also a gamble for esther biden who risks walking away from some of the most deeply held principles of the democratic party and angering key parts of his core constituency such as progressive and young voters. that is a bit from the new york times. i want to remind you of the phone lines, because our question is for you. what do you think washington should do about legal and illegal immigration? democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you live on a border state, live in a border state, (202) 748-8003. before we get to your calls, let's look at a bit of video from last week at a house gop news conference near the border

in eagle pass, texas. house speaker mike johnson attacked biden border security policy. let's watch. [video clip] >> last month alone, we saw the most illegal crossings in recorded history. it is an unmitigated disaster, catastrophe. what is more tragic is that it is a disaster of the president's own design. about an hour ago, we had lunch and there were a number of sheriffs that work and serve along the border of texas. the sheriff of carroll county is a former border patrol agent and he said in his estimation, it took less than six months for the biden administration to this mental 100 years of progress that the u.s. border patrol had achieved. some of the first actions that joe biden took when he rolled into the oval office were that he rolled back border security measures. they were put in place by the trump administration. it was on his very first day in

office that president biden stopped construction of the southern border wall and ended the remain in mexico policy. it was estimated on our tour that if the biden administration would reinstate just the remain in mexico policy, it could stem the low by 70% or more. but, he refuses to do it. since the time president biden took office, the administration has done next to nothing to protect the border but we have seen they have opened the border wide to the entire world. it is estimated nearly 170 countries have people coming in and flowing across this border and some are from nations that have high numbers of concentration. these are not people who are fleeing and looking for asylum that are in fear for their lives in their home countries. we have hardened criminals coming across the border. they have been released from prison's in these countries and have been sent to the u.s. rather than incentivize people

to come, the president needs to deter people to come to the country. rather than discussing amnesty, this administration should reinstate the remain in mexico policy. rather than expanding parole authority, the president should end catch and release and stop the abuse of our parole and asylum system. the president can and should act now. this does not require legislation. it requires leadership. despite the white house is claimed he has the authority he needs right now under existing federal law to stop this madness. the message his policies have sent is the opposite of that. under president biden, americans laid out a welcome mat to illegal immigrants, smugglers and cartels. he is responsible to the grave threat to our national security and our nations sovereignty these policies have created. host: that was house speaker mike johnson, speaking during a

press conference on the border just last week. we want to go to you now, what you think washington should do about legal and illegal immigration? democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you live in a border state, call us at (202) 748-8003. let's start in michigan. herbert is on the independent line. what do you think should be done, herbert? caller: hello? host: yes, go ahead. caller: i think for one, the republicans need to come to the table and make a deal. they are using this politically. let's go back to 2016 when obama was in office. we did not have these kind of people crossing into our border. donald trump gets into office, he changes the policy, he kills

the funding that fought the drug lords in south america and people started pouring toward our border. he is the guy that brought millions of people here. he did this. once he found out the mess he made, he put an illegal, unconstitutional policy, remain mexico in place. the supreme court ruled against that. the republicans created this mess. they use it politically. that is the bottom line. people need to look at facts. look up facts. that is all i have to say. host: all right, herbert. let's hear from brandon calling from ohio on the republican line. caller: good morning. i think it is pretty simple. they need to go through border reform, but they need to streamline the process of becoming a resident of the

united states. they now -- we are naturally, we are producing at a lower rate than before. we are dying off at a higher rate. therefore, between the two, we are going to lose our population, which will lower the amount of money that our country brings in in revenue and we will continue to increase the debt whereas we have all of these super low unemployment rate, also could be adding to the gdp by having more people working. having more people in these areas that are currently unoccupied, that would lower the crime rate because there would not be a bunch of -- and people would be working. that is my thought. host: brandon, i want to stop you because you had a very

relatively moderate take on immigration compared to most other republicans. what are your thoughts when you see republican elected officials, they are advocating for stricter policies to reduce the number of people, legal or illegal, coming into the united states? caller: well, i think they made it too politicized. they are using it as an excuse for something to complain about. we need to get back to the old times when the government played a more key role in making decisions. this is the first congress, i think, it is the lowest amount of bills passed in congrs. they need to topic ring about stuff like -- they need to stop bickering and focus. so much on

other countries and tighten up one thing at a time and move onto the next thing. i think they are very, very passive-aggressive. they should be continuing the work on building the country, instead of tearing it down. host: thanks for your call, brandon. let's move to bedford, texas. dolly on the democratic line. caller: good morning, everyone, and happy new year. i will tell you that what happened to me, let me give you a bit so you will know what is behind all of my thinking. i am 87 years old. i have lived in tarrant county, texas for over 80 of those years. let me tell you, i have seen all of the evolution of what is almost the epicenter of this immigration problem. so, what i have watched happened

, even though i did not actively speak out about it, i participated by paying attention to the news. knowing what is really happening in my neighborhood, because the people that are coming here are just like the rest of us. there is an element of them that are so law-abiding and incredibly wonderful people. then, there is all of the others. well, i watched the news on this latest, horrendous dived out of the border, i would see these people come in and they are well fed. they have cell phones. they seem to know exactly what they are doing. where is all of this money coming from, if there is such pathetic need? you do not have any answers to that. so, this is where i am now.

i believe at the root of all of our political problems is illegal immigration. use to that illegal aliens. that is what they were called. they were doing crimes to come across the border like they are doing now. they were treated like criminals. host: dolly, you called on the democratic line. i want to ask you what i asked our previous caller, your stance on immigration seems to be more conservative than most democrats who want a more measured approach. so, what would you say to fellow democratic lawmakers about what they should do on immigration? caller: do you know that donald trump was talking about it? not what he was doing, but when he was talking about it, it was straight out of my head. i did not like that, because i

am totally against his policies and the way -- i used to be a republican. i voted for richard nixon. i am 87 years old. i have voted a lot. as soon bill agnew got indicted and sent to prison, i left the republican party and never gone back. i voted a straight democratic ticket for joe biden and for obama twice. nothing is perfect on our planet, but we have really, really good immigration laws. here is the problem. no one is willing to pay the price to enforce the immigration laws. you know, that is what life is for, to keep things on the straight and narrow. what in the world are we thinking about? host: all right, dolly, i am going to stop you there but i appreciate your call this morning. our next caller is bill, calling

from st. george, utah, independent line. caller: yes, can you hear me ok? host: yes, good morning, bill. caller: my goodness, you watch tv and it looks like a freeway for miles and miles and miles of the immigrations coming into our country. you know, that is not good. some of these people think that it is ok. when they get here, they do not have any work. they are coming into your house, robbing you, killing you, to get some food. desperate people do desperate things. all of this boils down to the leadership of what is going on. not only that -- it is only that, because you talk about the food programs, the ranchers, the farmers, it goes on and on. diesel to fill a tractor up costs $1000 and lasts two days. all of this stuff is too

expensive. it goes right back to leadership. you are talking about people like mitt romney. i heard a guy on your program a week or so ago talk about, you can't believe mitt romney at all. in utah, that is the reason he did not run again, because the people here in utah, the people i talked to -- one guy said, i would not vote for him to be a dogcatcher. it is terrible. i do not like the fighting back and forth with people. you talk about donald trump, the other side, they run biden down. my goodness, they should stop and think, are they perfect? no, nobody is perfect. of course, you have got to weigh the good and the bad and go forward from there. host: all right, bill. let's hear from azalea on the democratic line, calling from

napa, california. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. two me, this is very important, important because i am an immigrant. i came here in 1967. things were really good before, and they are now, to me, because my mother -- father raised us here and he expected us to work and taught us to work and do everything that we need to do. what i find now is that the government has those places they place people because they do not have any place. if they did not have these hotels, if the government did not pay for the hotels or all of the things that they pay for, i do not think people would be here. now, i hear the republicans, i

understand part of the money goes to mexico to help these people. but, i am sorry, this is just -- you do not put your problems also that you are having here on another country. does not matter which country it is. then, i see a lot of people coming in from the other borders . people do not talk about those borders. we do have a lot of people from other countries in here. it is ok if they were coming here to work, but the government does keep the money. i disagree with that. my mom did not take a nickel from the government.

she just worked and worked and worked. people can do it. host: ok, thanks for your call this morning, azalea. let's go to york, nebraska now. terry, independent line. caller: good morning. i have several points that i wouldn't -- that you would mind giving me the opportunity to bring up. for three decades, the democratic party brought to the table what they thought might be solutions to the border crisis. and, it got nowhere because they did not get any cooperation from the republican party, who did not see it as a problem. this is well known. back when 30 years ago occurred, my family lived in texas on the border. this is not a new problem. this is something that has gone on for years and years and years. so, now, when the republicans do

not want democrats to win again, they are going to use that as a poison arrow against biden. this party, for one reason or another, refuses to use the term witch hunt, when they are the ones who brought about that saying back when the election of obama came about. anyhow, the fighting back and forth is getting ridiculous. cerner or later -- sooner or later, somebody has to learn to reach across the table and work together. that is one point. i am tired of the two parties going at each other's throat to be fighting. let's put them in a ring and let them go at it instead of -- so far it is making no sense. trump is the one who separated parents from their children at the border. trump is the one that made the

promise to the taliban to pull out of afghanistan. we have a guy here who just kind of likes to leave his mess to somebody else to fix. the problem has gone on for years. host: all right, i am going to have to stop you there but we appreciate your call this morning. let's go to the republican line now. david in pensacola, florida. caller: yeah, hey. i know that for a long time that republican -- my republican party [indiscernible] they stole blacks jobs in south florida and then on top of that,

why we sending back cubans? i think what we should do is actually, we should actually send cubans back. we should actually be having free-trade with cuba. and lifting the embargo on cuba. host: all right, david. appreciate your call. let's look at a headline, this is more from speaker mike johnson's trip to the border last week. this is another article from the washington examiner. under the headline, house blame shifting on border, "more smoke and mirrors." it talks about how speaker mike johnson circulated a memo rejecting the white house's

attempt to lame house republicans for the border crisis. -- two blame house republicans for the border crisis, to come partially in response from white house budget director shall and young. on friday, she discussed government funding and the possibility of a government shutdown during a graphics conversation with reporters -- ring a breakfast conversation with reporters. here she is responding to a question about that statement from speaker johnson that said, the white house's $14 billion supplemental request for border security is "broken mirrors -- smoke and mirrors." >> voting for boater control, equipment -- border control, equipment, everyone is fascinated who has been to the border and in my day on the hill

it was bipartisan to want more equipment. the presidential request asked for more equipment, more money for agents, more money for asylum officers. i get it. if you want to close the border and not have an immigration policy, why would you want to fix it? we want to fix it. know, we do not want people waiting, 5, 6 years before they get called in, have the case adjudicated. not only is that bad for our border policies, it is bad for the families to come, get adjusted to this country and be -- away from their community. we have to do something to fix it. but, you can't think that people should not immigrate to this country and want to fix this process. if you do not have that believe

that we should have a functioning immigration policy, you say no to all of this and you are starting to hear the rhetoric, close the border. what does that mean? what does that mean about our immigration policy? there is something deeper there. a few years ago, republicans would have said sure tomorrow asylum officers. now, you are saying this willingness to not even have an immigration system that works even to get people legally through the system, that is concerning. that does not leave a lot of room when there is a fundamental disagreement of how this countries values are fed. host: that was white house budget director young responding to republican criticism to the biden administration's border policies. we want to get back to your calls to answer the question, what should washington do about legal and immigration -- legal

and illegal immigration? if you are a democrat, call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. or, if you live in a border state, you can call us at (202) 748-8003. before we get back to some of your calls, i want to read some responses we have received on facebook. wanda eugene writes, washington should prioritize humanity in its dealing with immigration cases. jim dahmer says biden should declare a state of emergency and close the border. the national guard should be placed on the border with authorization to use deadly force to protect the sovereignty of the u.s. unfortunately, we know biden will not turn away cheap labor and future democratic voters. frank writes, find out why so many abandon their country, work

with the country to reduce that difficulty so they stay in their country. susan marie writes, close the borders and let ice do their job. again, we want to go back to the phone lines to hear more of your calls. let's start in chicago. carla on the democratic line. caller: hi. thank you for allowing me to speak. i am in immigrant. the first thing i want to point out is this. shame on the republicans for turning immigration into politics. immigration is about human beings coming into a nation. and who should be here who does not qualify, you send them back home. the fact they have used it as politics. ron johnson declared a few days ago that he has slowed down the

process of giving the money that president biden requested to fix the border. why? his words were, they can slow it until the election. they can slow it down until the election. they are screaming that the border, the border, the nation is in trouble, we are in danger. they refused to release the money needed for the border. how can this be? not only that, we have turned immigration, we have turned these people into monsters. people, these are the same individuals that have been coming into america for years. for 40, 50, 60 years. the jobs that most americans would not do, do not want to do, carry watermelons, plant, build,

construction in the hot sun, hotel rooms, cleaning them, the things americans do not want to do because it is too hard and it does not pay enough. they have taken these jobs and we have allowed republicans to turn this into this monstrous situation. all of these people pouring in, if they had the money to fix the border, guess what? these people would not be able to pour in like that because there would be enough officers to interview, to turn back. there would be enough lights to go back out, because the money is there. republicans, democrats, we are all a part of america. do not allow this to be politics, please. thank you for listening to me, god bless you all. host: all right, carla. our next caller is in decatur, georgia, republican line. you are on. caller: how are you this

morning, tia? host: doing well. caller: happy new year. first thing i would like to say, i never hear anyone say, take down the statue of liberty, which says give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. i never hear anyone say, take down the statue of liberty. we do not want that. nobody ever say that. immigration been a part of america like mcdonald's, coca-cola and chevy. emigration, illegal, legal, is as america as apple pie. the politicians should just be honest and say, we do not want people coming from mexico, we do not want people coming from africa, we want them coming from europe. just be honest, that is all i am saying. politicians should just be honest. that is what they are saying in so many words.

i work around immigrants. they worked hard. my neighbor is from africa. she is superduper educated. that is what i cannot understand. why don't they just be honest? take down the statue of liberty. give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. thank you. host: we are going to go now to jodey in alaska on the independent line. caller: hey, how are you doing this morning? host: doing well. caller: happy new year. your las caller on the republican line, that man made -- that is the kind of republicans we need back. in an independent, eileen heavy to democrat and i am 60 years old. born in jersey, raised in south florida. i was there when haiti had to travel because cubs --

patients were sent back and they had a longer journey than cuba. the immigration went back with the statue of liberty. there you go. they were making sure they did not have -- it was happening way back when and we are still coming through that way. the southern border, that never used to be hours until white folk came and colonized. we did not discover this continent. people were here all along. i hate white privilege, which i was born into, but i am not that way. i am out of the box. i am here with indigenous people. i respect them. they care about the land and everything. we have got to let the people live. exactly what he said.

all of the work that the people the white people do not want to do -- immigration helps us. here, we do food processing. we have filipinos to do work permits and they last a few months and go back home with the money they made. that is fine, let people know about their business. the republican party got it wrong from trump on. host: alrighty. we are going to go to ohio now. say on the republican line, you are on. caller: the only thing i say is that i can't go to the grocery and buy meat. i can't fill my car up more than -- i pay eight dollars a time. the people that say immigrants should come here, i do not have a problem with immigrants. i have a problem -- people are

dressed better than the clothes i can afford to buy. it makes me wonder, how poor are they if they can dress but come across the border, and then they give them everything but the kitchen sink, which they probably have? they do not know if they have been vaccinated, they do not know what kind of diseases they are bringing and they do not seem to care. i care because i had a great-grandchild that i worry about. i am a person who lives by herself on social security. she barely makes her bills. she barely pays her food. she cannot hardly bypass -- i do not have the money, but these people are receiving when they come across the border. do i hate immigrants, no. i hate the people who are coming illegally from 150 countries and nobody cares except, oh, well, they are just immigrants trying to make a better life. no, they are coming here because of whatever and a lot of them are crooks, thieves.

we have more people on the street that need help worse than these people crossing the border, but nobody cares about them. they only care about the people crossing the border because they are depressed. what am i? i am depressed because i live by myself. i pay my bills, i can't afford to buy a new car. my house needs repair. i can't afford it, but these people get everything they want and the government does whatever it is in the white house. i don't refer to him as the president. he does not care about me. seeing him come to my house and asked me what i need -- host: faye, we appreciate your call this morning. let's go to hamburg, new york. gary on the democratic line. caller: good morning. i saw one of your facebook posters saying about the, check

with those countries and find out why people are leaving. i think it is because of the fact they do not have anything down there. may be the united states in congress should go and do a quick mission down to central south america, haiti. see what they need in terms of aid for people to maybe want to have a better life down there, instead of them having to come up here. congress has cut back so much on foreign aid to those underdeveloped countries in central and south america. we are spending tons of money over into the middle east. let's work on our own continent and go back to the basic principles of what we are. that is to help other people. if the republicans do not want to do it, then let's vote them out of office and get the people in who will. thank you. host: another subtext to this discussion about legal and

illegal immigration is the fate of homeland security secretary alejandra mayorkas. this is an article from usa today under the headline, house republicans to begin impeachment proceedings against homeland security secretary alejandra mae arcus --alejandra mae arcus. against the department of homeland security alejandra mayorkas on their attack on democrats over the migrant crisis at the southern border. the proceedings will begin january 10 the house homeland security committee holding a first impeachment hearing, a committee spokesperson told usa today the move comes after 60 house republicans and speaker mike johnson, republican of louisiana, are in eagle pass,

texas to tour the border and hold a press conference on the migrant crisis. let's look some more of that press conference from eagle pass, texas. this is gop homeland security committee chair mark green. he is attacking secretary mae arcus -- mayorkas. >> the greatest threat to national security and the safety of the american people is secretary mayorkas. he threw his policies has defied and subverted the laws passed by the united states congress. he has defied multiple court orders. he has lied numerous times to the united states congress. he has under oath, stated rings that were blatantly obviously

incorrect. he has broken his oath to defend this country. even ag garland admitted -- to exploit the american people and make billions of dollars. putting americans at risk, hundreds of thousands of americans dead to fentanyl, tens of thousands of young people trafficked into sex slavery. williams of dollars wasted. expanded criminal networks, now connected to the drug cartels in mexico throughout our entire country. director ray admitted before my committee the other day that with the border wide open and a war in israel, hamas can just walk right in. that is the director of the fbi. he fears for his own agents.

it is clear, this is intentional. secretary mayorkas knows the policy. if the ag knows the policies are the cause, secretary mayorkas knows the policies are the cause, he is doubling down. he is doing this intentionally. despite the catastrophic harm to our country, our committee has finished its investigation. i want to thank the members of the committee for their hard work and our staff. you are going to see a lot more coming here very soon. host: that was republican congressman mark green of tennessee. he also chaired the homeland security committee with some criticism of homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. our question for you tay is, what do you think washington should do about legal and illegal immigration. we want democrats to call us at

(202) 748-8000. republicans, your line is (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you live in a borr state, call us at (202) 748-8003. a few more comments from social media before we returned to the phone lines. linda mcdermitt writes, adopt a comprehensive plan that democrats have had for three years that republicans have fused because they do not want to make biden look good. stephen says, add more judges at the border and make it easier to immigrate legally. do not put kids in cages or separate families. crackdown on racist governors who put barbed wire barriers in rivers and otherwise brutalize refugees. one more, sam writes, vote for trump, let great deportations

begin. biden cares more about ukraine's border than america's border. we want to hear more from you on the topic. let's go to the border state of california. dawn is calling from salinas, california. what are your thoughts? caller: my thoughts are this. the cold hard truth is, our immigration system is completely corrupted. it is almost nonexistent. it has been corrupted by people who know exactly what they are doing. you had a person commenting, not a caller, but a woman who was saying we need to welcome people in and this and that. well, tell that to the mayor of new york. he is crying. he is getting on tv and crying, there is too many illegal aliens in new york. he is a flaming liberal, but he is facing the cold hard truth to what is going on.

there is an industry going on, that ignorant people who can't read our traveling thousands of miles to our border. what motivated this person to walk into the unknown where he might get starved, robbed, because they are still waiting for him -- there is food waiting for him down the line and we have a river of people coming up into our borders? all of these people saying it has happened for years, no, this has not happened for years. we got illegal aliens that would come in from mexico, some from el salvador or something. we have millions coming in here. millions. they are giving them hotel rooms instead of taking our homeless and putting them in a hotel. they are taking somebody from thousands of miles away and putting them in a hotel. biden asks for money for more

border patrol. our border patrol is the welcome wagon. it is not the border patrol anymore. he wants to buy more rubberstamps to put in the hands of the border patrol to stamp on the back of the hand of the immigrants that come back in a year and will talk about it. we have to get real on this. host: all right. caller: what? host: we appreciate your call this morning. we are going to move to palm beach gardens, florida. patrick on the republican line. caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. i want to make a clarification. you ask for people from border states to call in. every state now is a border state because biden and mayorkas . secondly, mayorkas is a joke. the biden-mayorkas regime has

become the assistance to the coyotes and the cartels and they should be brought up on charges on complicity with these groups. it is just a joke. mayorkas should be charged with treason for not respecting the sovereignty of the united states. number three, simply put, since 1987, we have been promised by democrats that the border would be closed. since 1987. republicans have been cutting deals with democrats, which democrats never keep their word on this. all of this money they want to pour down on the border is nothing more than empowering more babysitters and ticket takers into the united states. we should build the wall and be settled with this thing.

it is a stupid thing. there are millions of people in our country illegally. i'm all for legal immigration and i agree with my democrat friends that the legal process into the united states is broken. it should not take years and years. it should take -- you know, maybe a year, six months, to process people legally into the united states. but, just to let the border open and everybody flow in here from 115 if in countries from around the world, china, north korea, who knows where they're coming from? we are just letting all of these people into our country illegally and we do not even know who they are. like the man said before, give them a piece of paper and say, come back in a year. they are not going to come back in a year. our country and the sovereignty of the united states, because of the biden administration, has been skewed. host: got your point, we are

going to stop you there so we can take another caller. ingrid in pensacola, florida, democratic line. caller: good morning, happy new year to all. talk about keeping a promise, what about mexico paying for the wall? i mean, the republicans do not hold trump to his words ever, ever. i understand from what i see and read that president biden has funded $100 million towards the wall. mike johnson and the house will not bring it to the floor and is using the republicans, are actually using it in this election year, to badmouth biden and nothing gets done. all the republicans calling in

complaining can blame mike johnson for not bringing that money to the vote for something to be done on that border, finally. and all of this time, for years now under trump, they were talking about drugs coming in, they are going to kill us. your station just a day or two ago that said the drugs are not coming from these people. they are coming through trucks, semi trucks. i mean, give me a break, people. host: all right, ingrid, appreciate your call this morning. next up from texas, and other state caller, ricardo in laredo. caller: good morning. how are you? i want to commend you and the

people who have been calling in for contributing with their opinions. i have a few things that i wanted to comment about this. we should remember that when we started, we were one nation and we got help from the creator. [indiscernible] liberty and justice for all. some of the colors, like the lady who lives alone who needs support, some of our elderly people, we have forgotten. a lot of the participants, a lot of the body of the country, we should consider. the people that come from other nations, some of the solutions are we should help them fix their environment so that if they wanted to, they could stay

over there. if they want to come over here, i work with similar agencies. we receive, the minors if there country of origin did not have a birth certificate, we process them and get the world bank to help finance for some of these people. the impression that we are not receiving -- we are. we have to do an appeal, i do not know if they know the rights that they have. the truth is, whatever we seek is whatever we harvest. in the process of the war, let me remind that some have the same father and they were blessed and have this is

agreement and we should help them fix it and the weapons of the border, closing the border is not going to help. it is not going to help us. the blessing from god, from the creator, will bless us. host: ricardo, got your point this morning. we appreciate your call from texas. now, let's hear from cindy in hendersonville north carolina, on the independent line. caller: good morning. i got muted. i just wanted to say, oh, my gosh. i love this topic. i have not called for over a year. i am recuperating at home right now from a minor surgery. there is just so much about this border.

it is divided between a lot of your callers. they always have to bring up trump. this has been going on for a long time. i grew up in fort lauderdale, florida. i am 71 years old at the time. during the cuban crisis. a lot of the cubans came over. the first ones that came over moved in next door to us. great people, but he was a doctor. a lot of them in our neighborhood moved in. as soon as they got established, he moved on to a nicer neighborhood. then, the cuban crisis, they let all of the jail people out. everything turned around in south florida. a lot of great people that came over from cuba, i am still friends with. even though i live in north

carolina now. but, the border has been a problem for a while. a lot of people -- the statue of liberty. that was a controlled immigration from europe through ellis island. this is not controlled any more at our southern borders. a few gentlemen ahead of me, talking about this border crisis -- it has all been told by the cartel. i wish people would wake up. we do have so many people coming across from other countries that are on the sheriff's watchlist. the gentleman right before me about the children, he is trying to help the children. i believe in our creator and i believe that we should help people. but, what about our own people that is being overrun? millions have come across. in the last three years, biden stopped that wall. he sold the wall that was already paid for. forget about what trump

promised, mexico was going to pay for it. i did not vote for trump. i am talking about people realizing that we have to start our own sovereignty at the border. host: all right. yes, appreciate your call this morning. next up in washington, d.c., maria on the democratic line. caller: good morning. i am so glad this lady mentioned cubans, for instance. the cubans and others back in the 1780's had a sweet immigration deal. their system was not the same as many have to go through today. and -- those latinos speaking of, they should come here legally, many of them had a different and easier immigration

deal to come here than what is right now. another lady from california said their mother came in 1967 and worked and worked and worked to bring their family up. it is just like people today, they do not want a handout. they just one to do the same, to work and also to be safe. many did not come here just out of poverty, but also security. yeah, it is completely political. republicans do not want to fix the problem, because look at that right now. you have been with this topic for a week now, nonstop. it is an election year and it is the one talking point that they have, the boogie man is leaving

immigration to drugs, and crime. you are equating all immigrants to that. my last point is, they do not want to work toward any solution. they could have more people processing immigrants said they will not need any assistance, so they can have work permits while their cases are heard and they will not need any assistance, which is not like the kitchen sink, like the other lady was saying. it is temporary shelter. host: all right, maria, appreciate your call. let's go to plant city, florida now. colette on the independent line. caller: yes, good morning. i believe that we should shut the borders and send these people back. they are coming in by the millions. we have americans that do not

have homes. the groceries have gone up. the entitlement that these people come over with. you see them coming over the borders, they are videoing themselves coming over. we are giving them money to shop. they come in beautiful, new clothes. some of them are dressed to the nines. some of them are dressed terribly. we have veterans that are in the streets that need help. we have children that are starving. we have seniors that have no moneys for medicines. it has gotten out of control. there are so many foreign languages, you can't understand some of these people. they feel entitled to come over here and take what they can get. i feel like we need to take care of the united of america citizens before we take care of others. if they are coming over here

dressed to the nines, why can't they stay in their countries and support themselves? it is very disheartening when we see children and veterans that are homeless and hungry and being kicked out of their homes. we have section eight apartments going out everywhere for people who do not want to work. it is very sad. i think we need to take care of the united states citizens first. host: linda, i will let you get the last word in this segment. republican line. caller: first of all, the democrat wants to blame republican for the border crisis. well, the migrants of -- i think the reason biden once an open border -- he is hoping they

will all become citizens and vote for the democrats. host: ok, linda. we appreciate your call. next up on washington journal, democratic strategist mckenna and republican strategist richie join us to discuss campaign 2024 and political news of the day. later, middle east institute will discuss the latest in israel and hamas war and concerns about the current state of the middle east. >> starting tuesday, march c-span's 2024 coverage as we are on the ground with presidential candidates from the final week of campaigning before the nation's caucus.

watch voters and experience but it is like on the campaign trail. watch our live coverage on the c-span network or online at c-span.org/campaign 2020 for. of c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> in the weeks that lie ahead, the famous influential men and women will occupy the seats and will have a lot to say about the society that we live in today. >> beginning saturday, american history tv people air the 10 part series, free to choose, featuring milton friedman. he coproduced series with his wife and fellow economist rose freeman. the friedmans also wrote a best-selling companion book with the same name.

the friedman's advocate free-market principles and limited government intervention in the economy and social politics. other topics include welfare, education, consumer and worker protection and inflation. watch free to choose at 7:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span two. this week on the c-span networks, the house and senate returned from the holiday recess for the start of the second session. they face government funding deadlines and later on february 2 two overt a government shutdown. watch c-span's campaign 2024 live coverage of the iowa caucus. also on wednesday, the homeland security community looks into

impeachment proceedings against alejandra mayorkas. watch live on the c-span networks or on c-span now. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information. order or watch on-demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online story. featuring apparel, books, home to core and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are joined by martha mckenna. she is a democratic strategist.

and mike ritchie. we will be talking to them about campaign 2020 four and political news of the day. good morning to you both. happy new year. let's start, just to get it out of the way. i hear you are not working on any campaign or committee at the moment, but martha, you are, so let's get that out of the way. a brief overview of the candidates that you represent right now. guest: i make television ads and i am an advisor for many candidates for congress. women in congress, a few great guys and western pennsylvania. i work for marian alaska. candidates looking to run for office in baltimore where i live, and where i am coming to

you from. mostly men and women running for congress and involved in a lot of conversations across the board about the biden campaign and senate races, but my work is mainly on professional. host: we were talking about republicans who are at the southern border. do you think they are taking the right approach to the conversation about border security by tying it to talks about funding the government? >> the president and democrats are trying to get some kind of agreement incentive on funding and republicans are trying to make this a big insecurity issue and make it about -- one not just funding but real policy changes at the border. they want limiting asylum,

limiting the ability to have humanitarian parole. what you'll see is a real showdown in the next couple of weeks, absolutely. maybe even some kind of shutdown related to the border. host: i want to give the viewers the number to call because if you have a question for martha or mike, you can call and ask them about politics or you can share your comments about political news of the day. go ahead and start calling in now. democrats at (202) 748-8000. republicans at (202) 748-8001. independents at (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. we all know that on friday,

president biden had his first big campaign event of 2024. he spoke about the state of democracy and was very direct about his likely challenger, former president donald trump. [video clip] pres. biden: it is the most urgent question of all time. the choice is clear. donald trump's campaign is about him, not america and not you. his campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. he is willing to sacrifice our democracy. our campaign is different. for me and kamala, our campaign is about you and every age and background that occupies this country. it is about the future that we will continue to build together.

our campaign is about strengthening and preserving our american democracy. we saw the violent mob storm the u.s. capitol. almost in disbelief as you turned on the television. they came to stop the peaceful transfer of power in america. smashing windows, shattering doors, attacking police. outside, gallows were erected as the crowd chanted hang mike pence. inside, they hunted for speaker pelosi. they were chanting as they smashed windows, where is nancy? over 140 police officers were injured. i attended the funeral of an

officer who died that day. because of donald trump's lies. they died because his lies brought a mob to washington. host: that is current president joe biden speaking about former president donald trump. guest: he describes the very high-stakes in the election in stark terms and laid out what it means when our democracy is under threat. former president trump is very much a threat to our democracy and our way of life. i think women of america in full well that when abortion rights were overturned, that is an extension. when people's rights, when americans rights start to get rolled back, that is a result of the trump years, the trump assault on democracy.

president trump is unrelenting in this assault on our democracy and our society. he is not backing down. he is backing the perpetrators as hostages. he is fanning the flames, even this weekend as the anniversary of january 6 occurs. he believes that talking like this and acting like this is the key to his winning strategy. for the rest of us, it is so dangerous and so scary. i'm pleased that president biden spoke up and laid out the terms of this debate and made it clear that he will take the fight to president trump. host: this is this morning's washington post and on the front page there is an article with the headline january 6 levi

enabled trump. it talks about how republicans are changing the narrative and have enabled trump's reelection bid. i want to read a little bit from this article. the changing view of january 6 among republicans offered trump a lifeline, paving the way for his political comeback. by october 2021 when he claimed that the inspection took place november 3 on election day rather than january 6, he was merely repeating a meme that was widely circulating on facebook. what you think about president biden's speech? do you think that the partisanship that came after -- the partisanship and how january 6 is being perceived, how that play into what everyone expects

to be a trump and biden matchup? guest: they want to make the election about what we first talked about. democrats need it to be a choice. they needed to be a choice the way the president frame bid on friday, making it about the future of democracy and the future of our tuition and republic. it shows you the big task that the president has to take the fight to trump, show that we stood up to the job. trump has to fly around and give speeches, and say the country is going to hell. i would almost call it a rewiring of people's brains. we saw what happened that day, many of us were involved. people breaching the house floor , breaching the speaker's office , saying that mike pence was a

traitor -- these things happened. that period after the election through his inauguration into doubt for a lot of people. having that partisan shift is a way to bring those folks back into the fold. host: let's go to the phone lines again now. we have looking at your question . what are your thoughts about the political news of the day? democrats can call us (202) 748-8000. republicans can call us at (202) 748-8001. independents can call us at (202) 748-8002. caller: i believe in immigration

and i believe that immigrants bring a lot to our country, but i am concerned about what is going on around the world right now. my biggest thing is that i raise my five children, that the law is the law. if the law says you do not trespass, you do not trespass. if you do, there are consequences. if my children break the law, they go to jail. i believe that we have laws on the book and we need to follow guidelines. i believe that the border is out of control and there has to be a better way. we need to unite our parties. we need to unite and come to a solution to protect our country because right now, the world is in shambles. there are wars going on and people coming into our country. i have nothing but compassion and love for them. but there are other people that we have concerns about.

we need to know who is coming here. that is my opinion on the subject. host: martha, susan called on the democratic line and there is a partisan line between how far to go on the immigration issue. guest: sure. get it you have serious senators like chris murphy and others working diligently, setting and end-of-the-year deadline, trying to bring republicans to the table. it is time to update them and refresh them, in order to calm the tensions at the border. there are a number working towards that so that we can modernize these laws and update them for the current times that we live in. all the while, you havwith dangg migrants on planes and flying them around the country,

dropping them into cities that they do not know anything about. the cities that are receiving them do not even know that they are coming. on the republican side it is about using people to pump up the headlines and stir up their base. on the other hand democrats are working diligently and seriously need to try to bring an end to this crisis so that we can bring a calm ending to this current situation. host: next step is john new york, republican line. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just have a few observations. it just seems like listening to all the callers calling in, there is a major effort to demonize people of the other party, but being a republican, i think the greatest -- full

disclosure, i am a republican and conservative, but i am voting for a democrat. what is the biggest problem is the ignorance of people, as far as government goes, and not looking deeply into situations. for example, this thing with immigration -- your democratic guest was talking about demonizing republican governors and putting them on buses. what are governors in the southern states, that are overwhelmed by these immigrants supposed to do? we have sanctuary cities and they talk a good show. when immigrants come there, they do not -- all they do is complain. they do not ask for the immigration to stop or be controlled, they simply ask for more money. very quickly, the lady mentioned

abortion is a key issue and women's rights. the decision was the correct decision. it was to be validated to the state. also very quickly, back in the 70's they had the equal rights amendment. they could have followed the suit that was precedent. let me just say this, this thing about donald trump being a threat to democracy? being a dictator? he had four years to impose a dictatorship on the american people. he did not do it. i do not like trump and i do not want him to run but he will not be a nazi or a dictator. these people demonize him in such a way but all they are doing is making the divisions

permitted. thank you. host: thank you for your call. mike, i will start with you because that was a lot of red meat. guest: thank you for the call. i have been open to supporting democrats in the past as well. i think what is happening is between occurrence warning about trumping a dictator and then some of these democrat, the officials trying to ban trump from the ballot, it is having the effect where we are seeing people like you, where it just turns people off and pushes people back towards trump. and so, it is ok to say, i do not want trump to run again. but democrats really overshoot the mark talking about trying to paint him as a dictator.

we can argue about my that my, but i think that is the kind of people that democrats should listen to in the year ahead. host: let's take another caller. caller: good morning. i have a problem. you talk about the border and all that but the law is the law. i have a problem with that and joe biden did not even have to get out and meet the people. i do not know why he is out. me? i'm robert -- i'm voting for robert kennedy junior. host: thank you. before -- martha, i went to ask you to respond, but before that, i want to read a little bit from this article that says trump and biden on course for 2024

rematch. it says biden has for month been months been hounded -- has for months been hounded about his age. his approval rating has suffered below 40% for much of the past year. trump has been a divisive figure every lot -- ever since he lost the 2016 campaign. many are wary about seeing him back on the ballot given the chaos of his first four years in office. as a result, analysts say it is unsurprising that a number of pools suggest a large number of the country does not want to see this rematch. what are your thoughts about

this phenomenon that people do not want trump or biden as president? guest: i think it is fair. if you left it up to the american people's, they would come up with all sorts of great names. dolly parton, oprah -- a lot of people that the american people really like and other politicians in the republican party. the fact is it will be biden versus trump. moving numbers and winning the american people, the key is to stay focused on the economy. keep trying to create an economy

and build out the infrastructure that he invested in since becoming president. joe biden is very good at it. he is very good at doing the work. not a flashy guy. that is the best way for showing the american people that he is serious about the economy. that is the best way to win back the trust and vote of the american people. caller: for the republican, the

republican seems to love tax breaks. religious institutions are getting a lot of tax breaks. a lot of this money is used to subsidize migration into this country. in order to cut down, they sacrifice the tax breaks for the religious institutions that are helping the immigration problem. guest: thank you for the question. there are a number of policies that they are looking at. one of the states in the election next year. they carve -- all of it will be

looked at. there will be a decisive impact on what the tax code is. that is an important question to be asking right now. host: let's go to the republican line now. caller: how are you all doing this morning. host: doing well. go ahead, mark. caller: i have been having this personal battle with how my going to vote this time? the one thing i think about as a republican is that i like information. i like to look it up myself. the kind of do not deal. they will blame biden for inflation, at the same time

knowing that inflation in germany, u.k., france, norway -- a told me right away that this is the global inflation. it's -- they are not telling me the truth. cannot looking at the world production. world producing more oil and gas, we are shipping a lot of it out now because of the band being lifted, but when i look at whale and gas protection, it is at record highs, higher than any time under trump. my party is not telling the truth, right? when it comes to crime -- i like chris christie because at least he is saying some truth. but as republicans and being really conservative, we have -- we cannot be using religion as our guidepost for picking our president because i had a friend

of mine who is a really big trump fan. he said god put trump in office. and i said, well he removed him in 2020. we need to separate the religion and people need to look at their own information. at least chris christie tells the truth part of the time. host: a disenchanted republican on the line. guest: there are quite a few of us out there. they do not expect people to do the kind of research that you are doing. they put all this stuff into the echo chamber and throw it around facebook and fox news. it is why it is such a challenge for experts like martha and others to tell a story about how the economy is doing. investigation is going fairly

well. all kinds of fictions did not play out. the country is a joke is another thing he likes to say. people -- they do not expect people to do their research and homework. host: speaking along those lines, in today's washington post, there is a chart that looks at several economic indicators and compare is a from biden to trump. we are looking at home prices. we see where they started at trump a little over $300,000. and then it goes, the dark line of the recession at the height of the pandemic. the darker shade is what -- is

when biden became president. home prices went up but it is showing a little bit of a dip recently. another thing we want to look at is inflation. down almost equal to where it started under trump, almost equal where it ended under trump. so again -- one more i want to show. this is on sending power. that is disposable personal income after inflation. the spending power compared -- it went up during trump, but where is under biden is even higher than it was under trump. martha, i will go to you. why do you think people do not give president finding credit for some of these economic indicators showing relatively

good news? guest: i can only hope that over the next couple of months they will. if the biden administration keeps working at it. that is an important piece of this. the president and his team need to keep working at it. just some of the indicators coming back into line. it dawned on me a couple of days ago. i drove by a gas station looking for the cheapest price. it was gas under three dollars and that is huge. to have gas dropping under three dollars is significant. we just came out of a horrific -- terrific trip -- terrific christmas season. people cap spending all the way through, kind of this first return to what felt like a normal christmas.

people's confidence in their pocketbook, the spending power is there. corporate power continues. the biden administration is really focused on the economy and they will continue the work. that is how he is going to get the credit. he is not a guy that will complain that he is not getting the credit. he is going out and he is working to get it. host: alexander on the democratic line. caller: thank you for such a good segment. i have a question for both of your panelists. i want to go back.

everything you are saying is great. it is a huge disaster because 70 people did not get to hear the actual accomplishments that biden and the harris administration have done. they get all this misinformation. it is just a disaster. biden continues would have been considered, his first term, this amazing time he did so many things you people do not hear about it. at the same time, democrats are losing so much support among hispanics blacks and minorities because of all these agendas that keep popping up on these cultural wars. i'm a hispanic in new york city. i can tell you that immigration is a huge issue and i will never

vote for a republican, but you are going to lose people. for the republican panelist, it is a disaster. they go onto to say that january 6 was -- nothing happened. they cannot hear the truth about the economy. it is a failure if you do not put that point across to congress, through the senate, across the media. people are not going to believe you. it's you will lose democracy. we do have a conservative republican party.

you both have to do something because this country is falling apart host: mike, we will start with you guest:. the first step to acknowledging a problem -- the first step to fixing a problem is to acknowledge that you have one. it is important to understand that it would be with the party for some time. that was always the hope that he would go away in 2020 and 2021. we lost the 2022 election and it just has not happened. i think being truthful about that and understanding what this

is and trying to get to a place where we offer the country positive solutions. we talked about immigration. we have a long way to go. i do not think we should pay for overnight. host: what do you think democrats bring to this conversation? guest: alexander is right, setting the bar for both parties, saying that we have higher expectations across the board. americans deserve that. the way i think the biden administration and democrats in the senate and congress can deliver on alexander's challenge is to stay focused on the bread and butter issues. i think we have to walk a fine line.

at the same time, thinking about the work of infrastructure. to be able to draw the contrast with the dangers of a second trump term with the work lifting at the economy and investing in innovation and generating a country that we can all work together to make stronger. caller: happy new year's to everyone. getting paid for performance, they would start passing bills

according to performance. if they do not pass the budget on time, they do not get paid. we -- if we are going to work across the aisle with each other -- we are in the real world and if we do not do our job and get the job done on the we do not have a job. host: any response? guest: i have tried that in the past, no budget, no pay with mixed results. the one time we tried a -- it could not come to that. we should not incentivize legislators and lawmakers to do their jobs. we have tried it in the past and i think it is a good reform. it is pretty broken in general but thinking about it now, we

are about three to four months into the fiscal year. i absolutely agree. no budget no pay is a reform that we have been tooling over. host: next up is marsha in tampa, florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. the reason the american people are so fed up and do not believe any of the statistic is because they have been lied to. they changed the meaning of words.

people say they are sick of trump? it is because the way the media handled. it is bold that biden is trying to pitch it. he said that specifically he wants the border agents to process them more quickly. 10 million people walking across this border illegally. even the sanctuary cities are finally having trouble with it. what do you think he does what he has flown them all over the place. they lie and that is all they do. that is why we do not trust any of them anymore. host: martha, that was marsha on the line. your response to her saying that

democrats are not serious about fixing immigration. guest: voters like marshall willpower trump to be the next nominee. we have a situation heading into isla with nikki haley and ron desantis and chris christie. the number of other republicans who put their hat in the ring but did not make it to the starting line the iowa caucuses -- susan seems to be a diehard trump loader -- voter who is firmly in his camp. that is her right. it is voters like her that willpower trump to the nomination. the problem is, who will really be serious about solving problems as opposed to using them for his own political purposes? i think we were talking about

number of issues that trump has given speeches about because it helped him politically and railed people up. it angered people. the rest of the country will have to make a decision beyond his trump base that will power him to the primary. the rest of the country will have to decide which direction we are going. host: let's talk about another 2024 question, which is the control and congress come the balance of power there. in the senate, there are talks of races that could affect the balance there. they have 51 votes there for a one-vote majority. michael on twitter asks what does richie think about the

candidates? fighting for reelection in states where trump dominates. i will read a little bit. the article says, if either tested or brown loses, that could cost the majority. with republican campaign operatives like stephen who runs the super pac are bullish about a gop takeover, it will be hard for any of these senators in both states to cobble together enough swing voters to put them over the top, as long as we have a credible candidate and we run an effective campaign law, credible candidates -- what are your thoughts about some of the republicans seeking the nomination in ohio or montana?

guest: in montana, republicans are trying. they tried to be very intentional about tipping the scales percent candidates coming forward. i think -- those in montana, but you mentioned coming back on the board in arizona. she has tried to be more open to bringing republicans together. some of these things in pennsylvania, mccormick is money again. you see republicans trying to learn their lesson and trying to get more credible and more inclusive candidate into the general election. we know that joe manchin is retiring.

a pretty much puts the republican very close to the majority. i think republicans in the senate especially learn their lesson. last point is that with the house and disarray with leadership, you will see much more focused on republicans and making sure they have a foothold. host: what do you think the probability is that democrats can retake control in the house? it's guest: i think the probability that democrats we take the house is very high. i have confidence in sherrod brown and others. i think you have strong incumbent senators up for reelection in some tough states. he knows montana and he

literally knows montana. everybody knows jon tester. he is someone that people can run into. they went to school with him. they know his family. he is their friend and their guy. sherrod brown has billy established an incredible and strong track record. there is a very good chance in the senate because of the quality of the senators and in the house, we really do have to go back to alexander's comment. a conversation that jc had. on the republican side in the house about the leadership change. very little got done. we have not seen effective

committee hearings. we had an obsession with biden impeachment hearings and other very political stunts that do not help the american people. they do not help bring down the cost of health care. it's in the long -- it is part of why democrats will be able to take back the house. the other part of it is with the quality on the house side for congress. i really wondered after january 6 is people would want to get involved in our democracy, if candidates would want to step up and run for congress. what -- i have been pleasantly surprised by the number of people who have said there is no more important time to stand up for my community then now.

i think because i going to take the house back. the other part of the formula is just complete and effective leadership, lack of leadership from the house of republicans. host: i wanted to remind you guys, we are going to go back to the phone lines. more of your questions, if you are a democrat, call us at (202) 748-8000. republic -- republicans can call at (202) 748-8001. independents can call at (202) 748-8002. will there be another leadership fight over which -- over whether mitch mcconnell should remain the leader of republicans? guest: i think that is up to mcconnell really.

he has earned that. i think you have seen in debates over ukraine that he is very bullish on wanting some pullback. you can see the conference shifting away from him towards the more conservative track and maybe wanting to move on, but for the next year, everything will be frozen until that moment when he says he will either trying to say or to go. i think you will find republicans say that he is the best judge of that. i did not go very far. host: back to the phone lines. kevin on the democratic line. caller: i apologize. i tuned into the program rather late and i miss the beginning, but i listened on the phone and i gathered the tempo of the

conversation. i do not think there is enough attention being made to the colorado supreme court ruling, that the supreme court of the u.s. is elected to look at. it is very clear, even for a layman such as myself, what insurrection is. the colorado statute and also, it is very clear that our former president mr. trump violated -- there was an attempt to kill and my god, the supreme court --

there really isn't any leeway when you look at it. it is very clear that he broke the law. how in the world in any good conscience with any legal know how could anybody say anything differently? host: kevin, we appreciate that and i think we got your point. martha, the u.s. supreme court has agreed to review the decision to remove trump from the primary ballot, but it has become a partisan risk as well. what are your thoughts on these efforts? guest: sure. thank you for getting up so early for that question. trump has broken the law.

he broke the law as president. he was involved in an insurrection. he has broken the laws of many different ways and then it is a political problem when the law, justice, the court, investigations trying to hold him accountable. the truth is, he should be held accountable for breaking the law just as anyone else is. it is sticky and complicated. they did not want a president who broke the law across-the-board in his business dealings and official act as president, and then on january 6, but we need to let the law play out and allow state interpretations of their constitution when it comes to ballot access. the supreme court will step in, but trump does not want to be held accountable for his own actions and that is not how it

is going to work. host: let's go to alex in delaware, republican line. alex? go ahead. caller: i have two things, one about the immigration. the democrats always talk about the rule of law. you always talk about there being laws on the books about immigration. how is biden breaking the law and being able to get away with this? i do not understand that. another thing about the january is that yesterday someone called in and said -- they showed the video about trump sanctify, but they never show how it was peaceful and patriotic. so we don't have that video and

that is a total lie. that is corruption, right there. and about -- that is have to save. host: mike, that is one of your fellow republicans. guest: he seeks for what a lot of publicans in office here, when they go around and canvas for vote. i would just say, i know what it with the building reached and i know what it was like tries to assault the house floor, and that is what it was. the rioters them else admitted to being rioters. he came to washington, learned that my was there to get justice. we can have this discussion about what was true and what was different takes in different

clips, but it is important that people understand what happened on january 6 in terms of breach of the capital and assaults on members of the police. i appreciate the call, alex. i do not think anybody was trying to lie but thank you for calling. host: let's stick to maryland. tom calling from baltimore, independent line. caller: i am tom from ireland. appreciate you taking my call. i hear ye is talking about new labels. is this what we need to fix our country? what is the solution? thank you so much. host: i feel like democrats have

had the most to say about the new labels movement. what about this ticket? guest: it feels like a vanity play right now with no labels. leaders think that they can swoop in and save the day. they are not having a convention. they are talking about potentially doing a power-sharing agreement. it is dangerous. january 6 showed us that the trump supporters are willing to challenge anything. they are willing to rush the capitol building, scare, intimidate, even use violence to stop the peaceful transfer of power. that is what we would be looking

at again if neither candidate gets to 270. i think that is the real problem with no labels is that it is getting to be too little too late now. when push comes to shove it will just enable trump and it will help trump. the last thing i will say is about larry hogan. a successful term in maryland, but he took the calls. he took the calls on january 6 inside the capital, asking prayer maryland state police, asking for the national guard to help. i think this idea that no labels would be able to sort out is a fantasy. host: next step is crystal in pennsylvania. the craddick line. go ahead. caller: good morning.

i just want to say that i am an african-american and i come -- we approve a voyage japan and has done so far with the economy. however, we live sort of upset about the handling of the israeli and palestinian water. i could never vote for a man like that. they do not even want to hear his name in my mouth. i want you to speak about how he

has allowed netanyahu to draw him into such a horrible war. this is making people say -- what biden did, the genocide of people is horrible. i want that to be answered. thank you. host: thank you, crystal. martha. guest: thank you for that call. i think you're having an important conversation in your family and it is happening many families about the hamas attack on october 7, which rattled the world, and then the is -- instantly israeli response, which has alarmed the world and the people. i think we are all hoping that this comes to a quick ending. the biden administration is doing all that they can to

encourage a peaceful ending for this terrible chapter. host: last up, james from lancaster virginia. i need you to keep it short because we are running out of time. caller: i'm just curious about the people saying that trump is going to be a dictator. host: mike, i will let you have the last word. trump has said troubling things, but do you think there is reason to be concerned if trump wins reelection? guest: in his first term -- i think the bigger concern people should have is the kind of people he would surround himself. he had a credible team in the

first half of his first term and in those last months, he was pulling and people who took some questionable actions, especially after the election and transition. less about ttrump -- trump, but you will find he is the guy who tweets from true social from his bed everyone. what to watch is who he surrounds himself with and what their agendas are. host: republican strategist mike ricci, democratic strategist martha mckenna, thank you both for joining us this morning. guest: thank you. host: we are going to take a quick break. when we come back, it is time for open forum. start calling in because we want to hear from you about political news of the day. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. ♪

♪ >> weekends bring you book tv featuring leading authors discussing their latest, nonfiction books. jessica wilson, professor at pepperdine university and coeditor of the liberating arts and contributor to st. john's college and baylor university's jonathan tran talk about the value of a liberal arts education. on after words, cultural critic and film historian peter biz skin with his book, pandora's box, books of the changes of television in the past 40 years from cable to streaming. he is interviewed by austria journal entertainment and media euro chief. find a full schedule on your program guide or watch any time at book tv.org.

♪ ♪ >> starting tuesday, watch c-span's campaign 2020 for coverage as we are on the ground in the pilot -- in iowa. here are the candidates closing arguments. watch and experience what is live on the campaign trail. four live coverage of the iowa caucuses on the c-span networks. c-span now, our free mobile app or online at c-span.org/campaign 2024. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪ ♪ >> friday nights, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly round up of c-span's campaign coverage to discover where the candidates are traveling across the country and what they are saying two voters along with firsthand accounts from

political reporters and campaign ads. watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail friday nights at 7:00 eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org or download the podcast on c-span now, our free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪ ♪ >> c-span's studentcam documentary competition is back, celebrating 20 years with this year's theme, looking forward while considering the past. we are asking middle and high school students to create a five to six minute video addressing one of these questions. in the next 20 years, what is the most important change you would like to see in america? or, over the past 20 years, what has been the most important change in america? as we do each year, we are giving away $100,000 in total prizes with a grand prize of $5,000 and every teacher who has

students participate in this year's competition has the opportunity to share a portion of an additional $50,000. the competition deadline is friday, january 19, 2024. for information, visit our website at studentcam.org. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: good morning. welcome back to "washington journal." it is time for open forum, your chance to weigh in on any political topic or news of the day. democrats, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will start with edna in chicago on the democratic line. edna? caller: yes. good morning, americans. good morning, americans. i would like to say that.

as long as we have people like matt gaetz, jim jordan and marjorie greene, we will have problems in washington. i am very proud of our president. i am really proud that obama picked him as his running mate. he has experience. he knows all of the crooks and hooks in washington. he made a good politician out of obama. all of the good republicans have left. there is no republican party anymore. the best republicans have left. mitt romney has announced he is leaving. that was a disappointment for me. i have amount of respect for him. i would like to say something about these migrants coming in. i want, if you will give me a chance to talk, i want to tell you about an experience i had. host: anna, we are going to have to stop you there because we get -- we need to get to another caller. we appreciate your call this morning.

tom in rhode island on the republican line, are you there? i think we lost tom. let's go to james in mineral springs, pennsylvania, independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: what i would like to talk about is, immigration, for one. i would like to know how much it is costing the taxpayers for these immigrants to be here. i mean, i am talking health care, i am talking subsidies. and, whatever. i do not know three or four different things on the news, i do not know which channel. they said that they were paying like $9,000 for housing. there giving them $2600 a month. there giving them $5,000 in food stamps. the democrats talk about social security. well, social security at $1600 a

month, and they are giving the immigrant this? there is a problem. another thing, i never thought i would see an election based on abortion. abortion should not be one of those things that our government is interested in. i am pro women, our body, our choice. but, they are right. they know what causes it. when they have that. they should, my body, my choice, if we are not having sex, we are not having it. i am sorry. thank you. host: our next caller is angela in maryland on the democratic line. caller: hello. to respond to one of your callers from new york, said that trump had four years to be a dictator. the first four years like your last guest said, trump had very good people helping him run the white house. through the four years, they were fired or quit because they

could not stand him or he did not like the way they would not let him run amok. one of the other callers that said, how could trump be a dictator? it is the president that has the military. the supreme court does not have a military. he did attempt to be a dictator in the four years by having, by asking mike pence to use alternate electors to keep them both in power. that was the biggest dictator move i have ever seen. lastly, in reference to the palestinian situation, for all of the young voters over the people opposed to what biden is doing with netanyahu, i can assure you the genocide is going to be in america if trump gets another term. as bad as it is over there in gaza, we are going to be the next gaza if dictator trump gets in there. please, people, go out and vote for biden so we do not have to live with dictator trump. that is what i wanted to say. thank you so much, tia.

host: let's go to the republican line it now. chuck is in syracuse, new york. caller: immigration obviously is a hot topic. what i do not understand is people talking about the statue of liberty and the words on the statue of liberty, which were written by an anarchist and a communist. that is not in the constitution. it is not a federal law. i live in new york state. i would be happy if it is gone. it is a statue of liberalism. the other people say, these people are coming in to work. they are in their 50's, 60's, 70's. i have seen people who could barely cross the water who could barely even walk. how are they going to get a job and support themselves? in new york, we have a huge immigrant population. a lot of people are not coming here to work, they are coming here for the handouts which are being provided by the catholic churches and they are a scam.

host: alexis on the independent line. caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. there is a few things i wanted to address. first of all, immigration, biden has asked for more money to get judges so people can be processed quicker. the republican house refuses to accept that. the speaker of the house is kneeling on the house floor, praying, when our founders separated -- sorry. i am getting upset. separation of church and state and everything for our constitution, we have to maintain that.

kneeling on the house floor and praying is unacceptable. i do not know how he got away with it. i certainly do not want to see it again. we are facing a very, very scary time because if trump gets back in, it is an autocracy. it is not just him, it is everybody else that is supporting him. he has already said he is going to get rid of anybody that is not loyal to him. he is talking about 10,000 jobs in the white house. the whole idea is to have diverse ideas, that come together so we can get the best outcome. one more thing. excuse me. one more thing is, if the republicans get in, they want a

nationwide ban on abortion and contraception. how can people manage their lives that way? it is not just women. every man that fathers a child has a say in it, too. they need to be heard. host: all right, alexis, we appreciate your call. thank you so much. let's go to gail in north carolina, also on the democratic line. caller: good morning. there is so much to talk about this morning with the presidency and everything. but, the one thing that comes to mind for me is children. i think the one thing that people have to take in to consideration the next election and plus the election went biden was president is, look at the future of our children. it says that a president is supposed to be an example for all people. tell me, what kind of example is donald trump when he was in

iowa yesterday and that little six-year-old got killed from a gunman and trump told the crowd that they need to get over it? to me, he is an evil, evil man. i cannot understand why anyone would support a man that would tell a crowd of people to get over a six-year-old getting shot. i am just devastated that the republicans see immigration as use immigration as a political tool every time. it is always immigration, whatever the -- whenever the election is over, they are quiet about it. when biden became president, he tried to pass immigration and the republicans said no. i just want to tell everyone who cares about our future, which is our children in this world today, we need a man of integrity, who is biden. we need a man who has character, which is biden.

we need a man who wants to help people. he is rebuilding roads and bridges. he is putting clean exhaust systems. he is helping redo airports and subway stations. he is trying to get diesel fuel out of dump trucks so they can have cleaner air. we need to look and research. the republicans and fox news and the far right media, they do not do research. these people just listen to these propaganda people and they just listen to them and believe them. then, when you do the research, it is completely opposite of what they are telling you. so, i say america needs to wake up and look at what is best for our children and what is best for our country as far as having a leader who is a real president that cares about people and cares about our future. host: alrighty, thank you, gail. next on the line is it stephen in indiana, republican line.

caller: i have got a couple of things i would like to talk about here, especially this january 6 hoax that closely and the democratic party put on the american people. the american people ain't stupid, you know? it is just like george floyd. it was obvious they ordered all the police officers that the capitol building, the standdown, it was obvious. same thing as all police officers in new york city. i do not know why these democrats think american people are stupid. you know? host: all right, stephen. let's go to barbara, oklahoma, independent line. you are on. caller: thank you. i want to announce first that

217, that is what it was when trump went out. these republicans, c-span, help us stop the lies. we can have people lying about our future and what is going on. how will we ever solve any problem? you can't lie, republicans. also, i wonder -- this has never been brought up, nobody told anybody they said this but, i wonder. you said they went to the capital put feces on the wall. did they poop their pants, or take it out of the toilet? that is disgusting and i have never heard anybody say anything. i am not going to vote for people who would do that. and, the smells. i read where melania is raising him and he has got this

horrible's -- horrible smell. host: kathleen is in mississippi, democratic line. caller: good morning. happy new year. host: happy new year, kathleen. what are your thoughts this morning? caller: the reason i'm calling, [indiscernible] since 2006. if you do not live in mississippi, you do not know what going on in mississippi. you hear about sarah huckabee and the former president? you hear about governor tate reeves? you hear about tuberville, the military do not want to let people go in and vote? you hear about people separating

their children at the border? we are -- the world is falling apart. can't they see? ain't nobody getting $30 an hour. the big lie continues to go on as long as we have republicans. the republicans majority rule taking over this world. wake up, world. because hell on fire. we going down just like ukraine and our alleys. this is my message, wake up before it is too late. thank you. host: all right, kathleen. john in suffolk county, new york, you are next on the republican line. caller: thank you for having me. i listened to some of your callers, unbelievable, they should learn how to get facts straight. one, trump, not a politician. he is a businessman, he runs the country like a business. ok? if you can't do your job, you are fired.

two, border. trump was president, the border was secured. biden, open borders. i live in new york, we are being flooded. my tax dollars are supporting them and i have got no kids in school. ok? your last caller with gas prices, yeah, where does she live or $2.17? in suffolk county, $2.90. when trump was in, $1.50. what president you know that saves money, that saves trillions of dollars on repairs? the capital, what president do you know that saved money on construction, that saved taxpayers money? f-16, these people do not know what they are talking about. let's open the books and look at the facts. you can't do your job like i said, trump fires you. host: all right, john,

appreciate your call. that is going to do it for open forum. we are going to take one more break. next, middle east institute paul salem will join us to discuss the latest in the israel-hamas war and concerns about the current state of the middle east. ♪ ♪ >> in the weeks that lie ahead, the famous and influential men and women will occupy those seats are going to elect a say in the frequent view of society and the solutions of the ills of time. >> beginning sand near -- saturday, january 13, american history tv will hear the 10 part series free to choose featuring economist milton friedman. mr. freeman coproduced the series with his wife, rose freeman and it first aired on

public television in 1980. the friedman's wrote a best-selling companion book of the same name. they take us to locations important to the u.s. and world economies. the friedman's advocate free-market principles and limited government intervention at the economy and social policy. other topics include welfare, education, equality, consumer and worker protection and inflation. watch free to choose, saturdays beginning january 13 at 7:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span two. ♪ ♪ >> weekends bring you book tv, featuring leading authors discussing their latest, nonfiction books. jessica was in, professor at pepperdine university and coeditor of the liberating arts. interpreters seen the hits from st. john's college and baylor university's jonathan tran talk about the value of a liberal arts education. on afterwards, cultural critic and film historian peter with

his book pandora's box, books of the changes in television over the past 40 years from the networks to cable streaming. he is interviewed by wall street journals entertainment and media bureau chief. watch book tv every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. ♪ ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2024 coverage continues with the presidential primaries and caucuses. watch live on the c-span networks as the first votes of the country are cast in the upcoming presidential election, along with candidate speeches and results beginning with the iowa caucus on january 15 and the new hampshire primary on january 23. campaign 2024 on c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪

>> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it anytime online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, debates and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. this timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined now by paul salem, he is the president and ceo of the middle east institute. good morning. guest: good morning, tia. good morning to your viewers. host: let's start, tell us about the middle east institute and how it is funded. guest: the middle east institute is the oldest middle east focused institute in washington.

it was founded in 1946. it is a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. it is funded by a wide array of sources, all of that information is on our website, sources from the u.s., europe and middle east itself. host: let's start off going straight to the middle east, straight to the israel-hamas conflict. we know that secretary of state antony blinken is currently in the middle east. the new york times has a little bit about that visit. it says that secretary of state antony blinken is returning to the middle east this week with the goals of getting israel to curtail attacks that are killing thousands of palestinian civilians and preventing the war from spreading across the region. that sounds like quite the agenda. guest: yeah, that is a tough ticket for the secretary.

the united states was urging israel and was hoping that by january, by this month, the war in gaza would be winding down and the u.s. military had advised the israelis to transition to a different type of warfare, more targeted, more specific assassinations, special ops, rather than large-scale war. israel has made it clear the large-scale war will continue, not so much ignore gaza but central and southern gaza and israeli folks said it is likely to continue throughout the entire year. this raises a lot of concerns in washington, and there is a very high risk of a war spreading further than it has already spread. it is important to note that there has been an exchange of fire for three months and the houthi militia has blocked the red sea shipping, or obstructed it. there has been over 100 attacks

by militias loyal to iran from a rack and syria. czar already bad. -- things are already bad. host: we are talking with paul salem of the middle east institute. we want to give the numbers for our viewers to call in with questions for paul, or your thoughts about how things are going in the middle east. not only in israel, in gaza, but beyond. as a reminder, if you are a democrat, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. go ahead, start calling in because we will get to those calls in a moment. paul, you talked about the conflict possibly widening. we know that there was some perceived retaliation, i am bringing up an article that was

in the new york times in this morning's paper. the headline says, have boa -- fires rockets after a key loss in hamas. it says, the lebanese militia hezbollah fired rockets toward a small military base in northern israel on saturday in what the group said was an initial response to the assassination of a senior hamas commander in lebanon five days ago that has raised fears of a wider conflict. hezbollah said in a statement the strikes have caused casualties, but the israel military said no one was hurt. the assault was initially perceived by analysts as more a symbolic response to the killings then a significant escalation. what is the risk about this israel-hamas conflict turning into something more regional? guest: well, there is a risk that it will turn into a

full-scale war between israel and hezbollah itself, that is big enough. hezbollah is far more powerful than hamas, has far more capacities than hamas. that kind of war would cause a lot of damage, in lebanon definitely but in israel. it is important to say that i think both sides of israel and hezbollah not want a full scare more with each other -- full-scale war with each other, but israel is basically demanding that hezbollah withdraw its fighters from the border area near israel. hezbollah so far has not clearly responding to that, so israel is raising the stakes. part of the u.s. diplomacy is to try to defuse that ticking time bomb. host: we want to go to the phone lines now. as a reminder, democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002.

we will start in washington state. roy on the democratic mine. caller: yes, what i would like to say. host: you are on, keep going. caller: ok, what i would like to say is that most people do not understand about war, they are screaming and hollering about the war in israel. war kills people, as many innocents as there is guilty. but, it is more. you can't control what happens most of the time. we need to stay out of israel's business and let them complete what they need to do to protect their country. thank you. host: it sounds like roy was taking the case for allowing israel to continue its retaliation, quite frankly, after being attacked on october 7. by hamas. but, we know domestically, there

are differences of opinion and there is a big call of pockets of the u.s. for the u.s. to be stronger toward a cease-fire. can you talk about the different ways of thinking about the u.s. approach to the israel-hamas conflict? guest: it is clear president biden agreed or supported the israeli goal of destroying hamas. after the hamas attacks of october 7, so the u.s. and israel are aligned on that goal. but, it has also been the case that president biden himself and secretary of defense lloyd austin have warned, have tried to prevail on the israelis in their operations of the war, to try to limit civilian casualties. there is no doubt as your caller said, war is war, people are killed. but, the fighters, the u.s. generals including lloyd austin, others who fought these kinds of

wars in iraq and syria elsewhere and afghanistan have said there are lessons to be learned and there is ways to fight it with let's civilian casualties and ways to fight it with more civilian casualties. it is also important to note that one, the war has been going on, the siege has become much tighter on the civilians in the gaza strip which means most of them are on the brink of starvation. they are thirsty. there is very little medical attention and there are few safe areas they can go to. there are nuances, even with the waging of war. host: let's take another caller now. jean is in chesapeake, virginia on the independent line. caller: good morning. i'm going to be short and brief. i am a retired military, u.s. army corps. i'm going to say i trust -- this is where experience comes in at. general austin, our president, president biden, as well as blinken.

now, that is all i'm going to say. i trust the experience, knowledge of our president, president biden. going to lead and do what he can to make sure that diplomacy is recognized and israel, you can't make them do anything. however, he is going to use our sources. look how many times blinken has been over there. the u.s. is doing all that we can. again, this is where experience comes in and i trust our president. thank you. host: paul, do you have the same level of trust in the leadership from the u.s.? guest: yeah, i mean i would say that the military leadership has had a lot of experience in this region. president biden has a long experience in the middle east itself. the israel and palestinian issues. secretary blinken is excellent, as well. we have been talking namely about the war itself, but the

area of experience president biden has put forward is that at the end of this war, there needs to be a positive, political pathway for israelis and palestinians to try and find an arrangement that will not require war every you years. that also is an area i think where the u.s. administration and the israeli government are -- or the current israeli government are at odds with each other. the president's urging negotiations for a two state solution and prime minister netanyahu so far has resisted that approach. host: fred is next in jessup, maryland. republican line. caller: good morning. before i get to the palestinian question, i have got to make a comment. that last caller, how can anybody say that they are doing a good job? afghanistan, how many of those weapons made it to the gaza strip? this whole foreign policy is a nightmare. it is blowing up in his face.

he is aiding and abetting iran. where do you think that money is going to? here is another thing. let me make this point. palestinian people, the parents are teaching their kids from zero to 99 to hate and kill jews. there is not going to be any two state solution. you are quite aware of that, sir. nobody is mentioning this. israeli goes out of the way to avoid killing civilians. it is hamas that was killing babies. it was hamas that was raping and murdering women. they are doing their part to get rid of this, this evil that lurks over there. until you straighten out the palestinian problem, they are teaching the kids to hate and kill jews. host: your thoughts about that caller's comment. guest: the first part, we were talking about this particular conflict and how president biden is handling it, as well as lloyd

austin and secretary blinken. i think given the difficulty of the situation, i was not commenting on policy towards iran, which is another complicated issue and certainly withdrawal from afghanistan, which was an agreement negotiated when president trump was president of the implementation of it was certainly terrible. the israeli-palestinian issue is a long and complicated one, it is about 100 years old. it has not gotten closer to any solution. hamas, obviously the hamas attack which was a terrorist attack on israel, an attack on civilians was horrific and denounced, it should be. the fact of the matter is, there is about 7 million jews, 7 million arabs living in the same height, piece of land and that requires some form of solution. none of that is easy. president biden knows it is not easy.

many of the arab countries know it is not easy, as well. host: let's go to bridgeport, connecticut now. simone on the democratic line. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i wanted to talk also about the administration of gaza. i would like to hear the speaker's thoughts on how arab nations could be involved in the ministry in gaza, and the opportunity of the first two weeks of the conflict with offers of negotiations, release of hostages, and creating -- israel cannot be involved in administering gaza and the citizens need more international approach. thank you. host: your thoughts, paul? guest: that is a very important question. four arab countries and may

others to be involved in a post work gaza administration, at least for the arab countries, they have made it clear they want that to be part of a longer-term solution. that they feel the palestinian authority, which currently has only limited control over about 11% just of the west bank, has a lot of problems of its own. that needs to be strengthened. and that there needs to be a pathway for palestinians in the west bank and gaza. within a political process that leads in the right direction, a number of arab countries would definitely step up. right now, many of the arab countries and secretary blinken will be meeting with them, are asking the question, when will this work end? what is the timeline? visit months, is it a year, is it weeks, and how do we get to the beginning of that discussion about how to get humanitarian aid in to the civilian and how do we begin talking about postwar governance? the israelis do not want a

long-term presence in gaza. host: let's bring up some video, this is white house national security council spokesman john kirby responding to a question during a press briefing on whether he believes hamas can be eliminated. here is part of that response. [video clip] >> you can certainly, significantly degrade a terrorist organization's ability to operate, train and conduct attacks by going after its leadership. you are probably not going to eliminate the ideology, which underpins that group. we have seen that, al qaeda, isis, other groups. >> is there a difference between the language of the u.s. has used in the past to degrade the leadership and the ability of the attack? i understand israel's role in this. does the u.s. believe the elimination of hamas is an obtainable goal? >> we believe it is absolutely an obtainable goal for the israeli military forces to

degrade and defeat hamas' abilities to conduct attacks inside israel. it can be done militarily. are you going to eliminate the ideology, no. are you likely going to erase the group from existence, probably not. but, can you eliminate the threat that hamas poses to the israeli people? absolutely. host: paul, my question is, sibley, do you agree? guest: i agree with that largely. with the operations israel is taking in the gaza strip, they are going after hamas' tunnel and military capacities. there is a lot of discussion over 22,000 civilians were killed and over 2 million displaced. i agree they can degrade, almost eliminate hamas capacity to eliminate worker from the gaza strip. hamas is movement, there are civilians who have been in hamas

want to be part of hamas. i guarantee after this situation, there might be more of those. war creates more blood, more anger, more loss of life. that, unfortunately, both sides makes people more angry and more radicalized. that is why many people are saying this war should be brought to an acceptable and sooner rather than later, so we get to a better place. host: let's go back to the phone lines. as a reminder, democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. on the independent line right now, we have jeff in bayville, new york. caller: thank you, mr. salem. i have some information that i gathered from the international -- red cross regarding the important rents bulls governing occupation. -- important for an governing

occupation. i want to read a few lines and comment on it because i think it is relevant to the situation here. first of all, the duties of the occupied under the 1907 hade resolution and convention, the additional protocol customary humanitarian war. these are a kin to humanitarian law. here is the relevant portion would like to talk about. to the fullest extent of these available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as provision for food and medical care to the population under occupation. the next item i would like to read is, collective or individual, forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited. i just want to stop there.

there are many others, but take a look at what has happened here. the question i going to ask, is the united states complicit in doing exactly what is prohibited by these laws of occupation? the gaza population, the citizens of gaza city were essentially forcibly transferred to the south. now, they are suffering all the consequences of the insufficient hygiene and public health standards. they may actually be dying for reasons that are even greater than the bombing by disease. host: got your point, jeff. i want to give paul time to respond. guest: that has been commented on around the world. i think there is clear violations of the laws of war. many israelis cite phase i as

the horrific attack of october 7. obviously, that violated any principle or any law that you could imagine. they could also cite hamas puts the tunnels and other operations in civilian areas, which makes it more difficult. i think that can go part of the way to explain the things that are going on. but, certainly, those are major violations and are clear in terms of provision of food, water and medical aid which has little to do with the right itself. i think the u.s. does bear responsibility. it is not new, the u.s. has remained in support of israel which the u.s. has caused -- and maintained in occupation of 5 million people. many israelis will say that occupation is not sustainable. there needs to be a better way forward. host: along those same lines, u.s. senator bernie sanders, he

is the independent from vermont, he put out a statement last week saying he was calling on the u.s. not to give further support to israel because of concerns he has about the treatment of the people in gaza. here is a portion of his statement. he writes, the issue we face with israel-gaza is not complicated. while we recognize that hamas' barbaric terrorist attack began this work, we must also recognize that israel's military response has been grossly disproportionate. in moral and in violation of international law, and most importantly for americans, we must understand israel's war against the palestinian people has been significantly waged with the u.s. bombs, artillery shells and other forms of weaponry and the results have been catastrophic. so, i know you said you do think

there has been some problems with israel's counterattacks, but do you agree with senator sanders that the u.s. should cut off further aid to israel? guest: well, i would not suggest a particular step, but the u.s. certainly has leverage over israel. i think the u.s. has interest in the region, the u.s. understands the goal that israel is trying to pursue in the defeat of hamas. i think we have gone way beyond that and the risk is spreading, lebanon and the red sea and potentially the persian gulf. the you has has many levers it can use --the u.s. has may levers it can use. host: let's go back to the phone lines. on the republican line, john in mckinney, texas. caller: hi, paul. with south africa being adjacent to the ig say and israel the

target of genocide, do you think america will suffer repercussions or blowback in the funding of israel's genocide? guest: well, i would refer that to the international lawyer. i do not know the details of the legal process. i know the u.s., certainly in the middle east and europe some degree is declining in support of popularity because of its position as the war drags on, probably for most of 2024, the legal repercussions, i am not an expert on. but, thank you for the question. host: let's go to florida now. john is in florida, democratic line. caller: good morning, c-span, thank you for taking my call. [indiscernible] on the others, i am very concerned of the administrators running israel now. they genuinely believe no arab

blondes anywhere in israel. i am fearful of that. 50 years ago, jimmy carter told the state of israel in those illegal sediments, nothing has been done about it. our government has been complacent and allowing that landgrab to continue after landgrab to continue. the settlements, now i understand, have their own militias that are beating up on the palestinian neighbors. i do not see a solution here. i'm wondering if you had any insights on, how is the in of this going to look -- how is the end going to look? i totally support the state of israel, but i do not in the them or the problem they are going to have when this is over. when we do eradicate in mass, as we must, what happens at that point there is no taste of his

rally equality for a two state solution at this point. they cannot be expelled. whenever this population is transferred to is just going to continue more problems. mayor connie was dangerous to israel then. his disciples are dangers to the state now. i would like to know if you think i am totally off the wall or if any hope, with 1000 different points of view, i am sure they can have a robust, domestic debate. it seems they are supporting their government. i do not blame them at this point. at the same time, benjamin netanyahu, guaranteed getting money to hamas and the -- host: john, i am going to stop you there because i want to give paul a chance to respond to your question. guest: excellent set of questions. it is important to remember that israel is a pluralist country and there is a lot of different orientations there. just before the attacks by hamas

on october 7, there were massive protests in the streets of israel against prime minister netanyahu and his government. it is important to note, this is the most right-wing government in israel's entire history. cobbled together by netanyahu, partly to escape legal repercussions and avoiding going to jail so he made an alliance with the extreme right wing that previously nobody would ally with. the country was very divided over steps the government was trying to do to weaken the judiciary in israel. it is important to note there is history, there was a movement to end the two state solution. radicals on both sides brought that process to an end. hamas, through terrorist attacks back in israel a few decades ago, made that process very difficult.

and, right wing israelis, some of whom assassinated prime minister ravine, also wanted to block the potential two state solution. under clinton, launched in with israelis. they came close to an agreement, but did not get there. it needs to continue to be tried. the u.s. in the meantime, it is true, has continued its blanket support while successive israeli governments built settlement after settlement on the west bank, largely to make a two state solution important. there has been an important group in israel called commanders for israelis, they say what needs to be done in the immediate term is to maintain the possibility down the road, maybe 20 years from now, for it a two state solution. they say, today, we get it.

there is no appetite. the israeli public opinion, or in the current state of palestinian leadership to actually do it, but there is no other alternative in the long run for israelis who want to live a life of peace and stability and prosperity and not to have to be occupying force for the rest of the 21st century. we have got to keep that option alive. host: let's go to georgia now. david on the independent line. caller: good morning. my question is basically, we have funded israel billions of dollars for their infrastructure of federal defense. i think they are getting to the point now where they are making bold attacks that are killing innocent civilians when they could do more precise attacks. i do not agree with the way they are going about it right now.

but, on the flipside of that, in ukraine, the republican party has held back funding for the ukraine defense, which i think is more important than anything for the fact of the matter is, i would rather have fund their armies and help them any way i can moneywise versus the american troops going in there, which is going to end up going to happen without getting the funding they need. taxpayers are paying for all of this, you know. i am curious, really, what the hard line is about why the republicans are stepping back about ukraine. i mean, it makes sense to me. i would rather fund them to fight their own battles versus sending our own troops in. host: all right, david. paul? guest: i'm am not an expert. host: right. guest: but, i will say that the

demands on congress to fund both israel and ukraine have created this binary situation that maybe some republicans went to pick and choose and say we will fund israel and not ukraine. the two wars have become connected with each other, although they are very different wars. i would note that the hamas attack's of october 7 greatly breached israeli defenses and caught israel very much off guard, very much like our 9/11 moment in the u.s. but, the war being waged now in gaza, which is much more open ended, to defeat hamas. it is not a war that is immediately, in other words, hamas right now cannot threaten israel in any major way. israel has a goal, they want to destroy hamas. whereas, ukraine is currently under threat from an army called the russian army. they are very different wars, but congress is stuck in a

binary situation. host: i want to ask about something else that is universal, but applied to the mideast and other regions. that is defense secretary lloyd austin. we have learned recently that he has been hospitalized after elective surgery, he had complications. but, he chose not to disclose it publicly. this is an article from cnn. it says, president joe biden was not aware four days that secretary of defense lloyd austin was hospitalized, a source familiar with the matter told cnn. national security advisor jake sullivan ultimately informed biden they'd thursday afternoon -- late thursday afternoon after sullivan learned himself austin was hospitalized. austin was admitted in the hospital new year's day due to complications from an elective surgery. austin has apologized for the lack of transparency, but do you think it is a problem that he did not disclose this, or is

this much ado about nothing? guest: i found it a bit surprising his own president did not know. in the middle east, the central command is the command, they are very major, a well oiled machine, as it were. whether secretary austin is available on those days were not, does not make much of a difference in the middle east itself. perhaps part of that signaling was not to signal to opponents in the middle east like the israelis and others that the defense minister was ill. maybe that signals weakness. my surprise was how did the president not know about one of his secretaries being in the hospital. host: all right, back to the phone lines. let's go to michelle in fairfax, virginia, democrat line. caller: good morning. i have a quick question.

october 7 happen, yes, but the number of people, innocent people that have died, over 22,000 people have died since this started, not only in gaza but the west bank. they are somehow able to do war in lebanon, syria, it is interesting how they need help and they are so, pour them, but they can do all of this destruction. over 77 -- what is the implications of journalists in killed? it is not a war, it is not a conflict, it is a genocide. i believe three hours ago, the head journalist of -- his son was killed. host: all right, i think we lost her. the point is made and what she was referencing, this is an

article in bbc. it says, the bureau chiefs son among journalists killed in gaza. that is breaking news. we have heard about dozens of journalists killed in gaza, among the roughly 20,000 casualties. you heard the caller, she does not consider it a war or a conflict. she called it a genocide. guest: well, i mean, what worries me most is the voices in the israeli government and israeli leadership -- again, i say the israelis are not united. there is an element of this which is a war. hamas undertook a horrific attack like al qaeda on the u.s. on 9/11, a retaliation and destroy hamas would be part of that dynamic. there are voices in the right wing in israel who are members of the government who are openly said that they feel that civilians are partly responsible

because they might be sympathetic or supportive. others say they would like to depopulate gaza as much as possible, move palestinians away from these northern gaza or big parts of gaza, openly displace and ethnically cleanse. those artificial voices from parts of this very pluralistic israeli scene. for military experts i have talked to and i have talked to israeli officials and advisers otherwise, the military experts say the way this war has been waged, way too much discriminant lay, attacks civilian areas, attack hospitals, areas that should not have been so easily targeted. and, use a very large-scale of bombs and equipment, much of it american bombs and equipment. 2000 pound bombs that lead to

such loss of life. as i have said, all of the context of continuing siege where almost half of this population is on the verge of starvation, most of them have gone through days where they cannot eat anything. trying to find water is difficult, trying to find any shelter is difficult. yes, this is way beyond a well studied, focused, military operation. understanding that a military operation will proceed because there was an attack on october 7. host: we are going to have to leave it there. paul salem, president and ceo of the middle east institute. thank you for joining us this morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: that is going to do it for "washington journal." we will be back tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m. ♪