>> washington journal for january 10, president trump is expected to give a closing

argument in his civil fraud trial this week. the question of presidential immunity. despite these legal issues and others, the former president enjoys a from republicans -- enjoys strong support from republicans. looking at those legal issues, when it comes to the former president's legal problems, do you think they help or hurt his legal campaign? here is how you can tell us. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. if you were to tell us if he former president's legal issues hurt or help his campaign, you can post on facebook and post on x. the new york times in late december asking about the president's legal issues and the support he was receiving at the

time from republicans. pst to couple of different questions. they say if donald trump is convicted of a crime and won the most votes in primary. 62% of those responding say he should be the nominee. 32% think he should not be the nominee. it also breaks it down by level of education. because with a college degree, 40 representative zinke should be nominee despite legal issues and potentially if he is convicted of a crime. of those with no college level education, 70% saying he should be nominee versus 25%. that is the poll looking at the president's legal issues and support. when it comes to the legal issues facing the former president, do you think it helps or hurts his campaign? you can tell us why you think that at. 202-748-8000 for democrats.

202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. yesterday in washington, d.c. that warriors 40 former president argued in ddc circuit court on this question if the president enjoins -- president enjoys immunity. one of the judges hearing the cases and mr. trump's moyer on the question of absolute immunity. here is that segment. [video clip] >> can i explore the operations of what you are arguing? i understand your position to be a presidt ismmune for any official act he takes as president, even if that is taken for an unlawful or unconstitutional purpose? >> if the president is impeached by the u.s. sate in a proceeding that includes

consensus, that would authorize the prosecution under the plain langge of the clause. yes, with that exception. >> it seems to me that there are a lot of things that might not go through that process because it is a cumbersome process that requires t action of a whole bridge of government that has a lot of -- a lot of different people involved. in your view, could a president sell pardons or military secrets , those are official acts, and such a president would not be subject to criminal prosecutn? >> for sale of pardons are an excellent example because tre was accusations of sale of pardons it comes to prident clinton. we decided not to precute president clinton because of concerns about whether or not a president can be prosecuted,

there is an albert -- >> your position is he cannot be prosecuted for that? >> yes. it was a private -- any official act. >> could a president order to assassinate a political riva that is any official act to seal team six. >> he would have to be impeached anconvicted. >> if he weren't, there would be no criminal prosecution for that? >> [indiscerble] in the plain language of the impeachment judgment clause, all supposed where the fighters were concerned abo -- >> i asked you aso no question. could a president to order distilled him six 2008 a political rival who is not impeached be subject tcriminal prosecution? >> if he were impehed and

convicted. >> so your answer is no. >> my answer is qualified yes. there is a process that has to occur which requires impeachment and conviction. host: that was part of the legal arguments that went back and forth yesterday on the question of presidential immunity. if you want to hear that were hearing, you can go to our website at c-span.org and listen to the audio provided by the court. you can use that and other issues when it comes to those legal problems, if they help or hurt his presidential campaign. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. you can text us at 202-748-8003. independent line, this is from spring lake, north carolina. thomas on the question of the former president's legal issues

helping or hurting his campaign. what do you think? caller: i would like to make a prediction that nikki haley made a public stated -- public stated that she would pardon trump. now trump is throwing rocks at haley to give himself an out. host: the question of the legal issues of the former president if they help or hurt his campaign, what do you think? caller: i believe it is going to hurt him. host: why is that? caller: he has done nothing but create chaos for the last years. he spent trillions of dollars in four years of service.

i don't see him doing any good. host: jude in mississippi, republican line. president -- former president's legal issues hurting or helping his campaign. you are on. caller: in my opinion, i think it helped him come if you understand it is mostly a political ploy to try to get him out of office. it can hurt them if you don't understand it is like that. host: to you specifically think it helps or hurts him. caller: definitely will help him. host: why is that? why do you think it helps him?

we will move on to john. john is in wisconsin, republican line. you are next. caller: yes, just seeing what has happened over the last 24 to 48 hours, the tutor situation where -- and sub hiring her boyfriend who is married and spent eight hours with the department of justice talking about the president. we can look at his legal problems and say they -- i don't think we can look at legal problems and say they are not being constructed by the democrats. i am not a trump fan, but when we see the secretary of defense

and our president doesn't even know the guy is on the hospital in the hospital -- is in the hospital, we need someone like trump to get in there and clean house. our nation is going to hell. host: as far as the legal issues , would that keep you from supporting the former president should he become the nominee? caller: not at all. they are all democratic conspired. they are all democrats in new york and washington, d.c. added letter -- and atlanta. the department of justice, the fbi, they are all against trump. host: that is john in wisconsin. any op-ed that appeared -- an op-ed that appeared in the new york times written by senior morning talking about the colorado decision to keep the former president off of the ballot.

he makes the argument despite not being a fan of the former president that the supreme court should overturn that. here is his argument. "the efforts to overthrow president trump could make them more popular than ever. legalistic maneuvers have not heard him in the polls and democrats do nothing to increase their popularity by setting out to save democracy when it looks that their basis for doing so is too flimsy. the approval ratings to joe biden have cratered and that this colorado ruling has accumulated in the case the train again is a bold principle -- and of strategy." you can find that op-ed online if you want to roll it into the idea of if the former president's legal troubles hurt or help his campaign. on facebook, mickey sn my

eyes it has helped him. for someonee in the nexto vote electi this is similar to when president trump came in office. i am now convinced they fear him because he is the only one who cannot be bought. if he does not win, my vote will go to robert kennedy junior." lucas saying "it will hurt his efforts. his followers don't seem to care what he does. it fit their narrative of their lives they are folded to. they can see the facts and the person him off as fake news." you can add your thoughts on the facebook page and on x as well if you want to. post your thoughts you can also call us on the land that best resents you on the line -- call us on the line that best represents you.

and jim, go ahead. caller: i think it helps donald trump. the more they pylon to donald trump, it shows they fear donald trump. to think about what the bushes, cheneys, al gore, what are these people have done to america. donald trump is the only pure toys for bob freedom as democrats are attacking our democracy today. they are no better than the people they represent which are the united nations, world economic forum, global nazis. that is the party of the democrats and there are many republicans in that same party, like the bushes and the cheneys. donald trump is the only clear choice for freedom in america. host: but you're from randy in

michigan, democrats line -- let's hear from randy in michigan, democrats line. caller: thank you and all the people who make this program. i believe it hurts his campaign for americans that have true american spirit that voted him out of the last time. they are the people that protect this nation. they don't even believe -- those that support trump, they don't even believe the constitution. they want to pick and choose parts of it to read just like they pick and choose parts of their bible. as still have all the confidence in the world of that senate majority out there -- and the silent majority of there that is going to put this tyrant in its place. host: even as you see those strong supporters as far as the followers of his bidding up to the november election? -- of his leading up to the november election?

caller: that is a squeaky wheel. you have a lot of people just hollering. we have to listen to all of that noise. the voting is what counts. we have seen what happened last time. americans came out and supported our democracy. i don't agree with everything republicans do, but i want to be able to argue with a republican without having to worry about shooting at them. that is just about all the former president was to do. host: randy in michigan there on our line talking about the legal issues facing mr. trump, hurting his campaign. rich lowry in the pages of politico talking about those issues and how they add up politically as we head onto this you. "in political terms, mr. trump does not have to win the debate

over alleged misdeeds as much as draw. we can imagine biting calling trump a convicted felon and saying yeah but at the hands of your justice department. mr. barton has his own problems. it is not as if the democrats are running and address the ethical candidate against a convicted felon. " that is from rich lowry. you can read that online. dominic from of carolina, independent line -- from north carolina, independent line on former president trump's legal issues hurting or helping his campaign. caller: i think it is going to help his campaign. i will not be voting for

president trump in this election but the illegal markets -- the legal arguments put forth have been flimsy. this needs to be decided by the electorate. the idea that presidents should have immunity is pretty well set and pretty strong unless i am missing part of the arguments. there are pretty compelling arguments about content's past about clinton -- about clinton's past conduct. presidents have to make a lot of hard decisions every day and a lot of decisions and normal citizen would be prosecuted for without that heightened level of checks and balances. i don't think that is good to show a case where president trump necessarily is within the rock from his desk in the wrong from his duties -- in the wrong from his duties acting as

president. that doesn't hurt his campaign, it shows dog piling which is going to bring more sympathy for people who were on the fence. host: dominic on the line. that is a line you can call in to. republicans -- independents, 202-748-8002. democrats, 202-748-8001. republicans,--democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. dan from florida, you are next up. caller: a couple of things i wanted to bring up, the fact that you're talking about this considering the press had that meeting at the white house yesterday is kind of coincidental. host: which meeting are you referring to? caller: the one where they had a

luncheon and they should be talking about donald trump's legal troubles. host: go back in time, we brought this up plenty. what do you think about it helping her hurting the campaign -- helping or hurting the campaign? caller: joe biden -- ex-husband had trouble. joe biden went after this guy for no reason. to think that is going on right now, going after someone, trying to keep them off of the ballot? it is funny that you are asking parties legal troubles going to help or hurt him considering he is not doing it to himself. he is not doing anything wrong. it is joe biden going after him. host: i would you answer the question -- how would you entity

question? -- answer the question? caller: two americans are going to see it is joe biden going after him. it should be pretty obvious to everyone considering there are 51 charges. that is a lot of charges for one person. host: more like 90. caller: whatever it is, it is a lot. has anyone asked that, jill biden's ex-husband? host: you brought that up so we will move along. the next in west virginia. caller: i listened to the trial yesterday and i was struck by what you showed at the beginning. the lawyer was asked if a steel wanted to us -- seal wanted to

assassinate an opposing president that that would be legal. i guess it would not be legal but it is something he would be immune to if he was convicted. i wonder if the republicans know what this former president is arguing for. if they prove something like that, what does that mean that biden can do? sit back and say to is seal team go out and get trump and he is not going to be convicted for that because we have democrats holding the senate. that would mean what? i do not see how this argument can hold. this argument should be stupid and not going towards anything. host: as far as the former president's legal issues, where do you think he benefits or does not benefit from all of this.

caller: if people start to listen to what trouble is actually doing, he is going in front of the supreme court, he wants to ask them if this is something presidents can do. doesn't that draw somewhere between who he really is and who he wants to become? host: that is steve in virginia. during ddc circuit court hearing -- the d.c. circuit court hearing, asked how it would play out, trump sat passively through much of the argument with a few exceptions. as the hearing went on, he became more admitted when the prosecution raised the possibility of to for tat retribution. twice he nodded when his lawyer spoke. he talked about a frightening future if presidents could be

charged related office. he has to be careful because that could happen to him also. check smith also attended that hearing. it was after the events of yesterday the former president went before chemist to give his assessment of what he saw -- before chemist to get his assessment of what he saw -- before cameras to get his assessment of what he saw. this as part of that. [video clip] mr. trump: they were very powerful points. i think we are doing very well. i think it is unfair when a political opponent is prosecuted by biden's doj. they are visiting at every poll. they are losing i -- they are losing in almost every poll.

they are losing in almost every demographic. very mind-boggling if you happen to be joe biden. i think this is the way they are good to feel they try and win. if they don't, it will be bedlam in this country. it will be very bad. it will be any opening of pandora's box. that is a very sad thing happening with this whole situation. when they talk about the threat to democracy, that is the real threat to democracy. as a president, you have to have immunity. if you don't, if this case were lost on immunity and i did nothing wrong, i am working for the country. host: when it comes to the former president's legal issues, does it help or hurt his campaign? 202-748-8000 for democrats. for republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002.

robert is next in texas. caller: i am a lawyer and understand the issues. it is not a matter of help or hurt. it both helps and it hurts. the ultimate determination of that will rest in what the supreme court does and how trump handles editors to discharges -- handles these charges. he has been a number of reactions to these charges. he could put himself in a much better like that he has. host: can you elaborate on how it helps and hurts him? caller: it makes him set in

concrete. it hurts them with independents and others. the charge hurts. what the supreme court does with it, they may dodge some of those issues but let him get on the ballot. and how he reacts to these charges, how he appears at how he attacks the courts, those kinds of things will hurt. he need to keep his reactions down -- needs to keep his reactions down and be the aggrieved defendant and not attack all of the courts. host: okay. robert giving his opinion. this is from our independent line.

we will hear from ruth. hi. caller: good morning. i hear you guys have an awful amount of rain there. everything they are charging trump with biden has already done and the people in the white house now that have taken charge because biden has dementia, very obvious, people like chuck schumer are very guilty. host: let's stick with the former president. how do you think he benefits from all of this? caller: he does not benefit because of everything they are falsely accusing him. they have gag order's on him so he cannot really go around and

have regular debates with the other politicians because of the questions these news media people are going to be asking related to the gag order's. he has got to go by himself whenever he does tom hall meetings with the people -- town hall meetings with the people. all the people in the united states know what is going on. host: linda in mississippi, democrats might. caller: good morning. [indiscernible] in the eyes of his base. that woman is not an independent. the trouble with trump and his situation is that he did it to himself. no one to blame but himself.

he is asking the court for immunity, for him to do whatever he wants to do what he is president. you believe in the constitution, he tried to subvert the government. he tried to overthrow the government. all those people complaining about biden, they give trump immunity, the government the constitution. by then we'll have the opportunity to do whatever he needs to do. these people need to wake up and try to pay attention to what he is telling you. he is telling them what he intends to do, to take all of your rights. he is running to stay out of jail, not to help him. host: you think the legal issues only help him or it could potentially help him -- or it

could potentially hurt him? caller: no one is going to vote for someone -- if our children did the things he has been doing any open air, they would be in prison right now. he is walking around, continuing his lying to all his base and they believe that. host: better in mississippi giving her thoughts on the former president's legal issues helping or hurting the campaign. we expect to hear from the president that you are this week. abc news reporting that the former president plans to deliver part of the defense's closing argument at the civil fraud trial in new york on thursday. defendants in that case are represented by three primary

attorneys. sources saying the former president is determined to deliver a portion of the closing statement. plans for the closing argument remain fluid, though. you could see that play out when it comes to the president's legal cases. in new york, democrats' mind, we will hear from russell. caller: good morning and god bless america and god bless c-span for the freedom to be able to speak here this morning. i feel that former president trump has really crossed the line when it comes to what he has done here in the city and with his followers. i was retired and watched this live on television. it was disgusting, it was

despicable. it was nothing i had ever seen, anything like this in my entire life. he has done this to himself. i was born in queens, the same possible as him. my father felt we had to get out of new york city because of the potential for a nuclear attack. host: as far as the impact it has on his campaign? caller: if america gets him back in there -- i love my trump supporters, i even voted for him the first time. but when we did not get out of iraq, his promises were not kept. he is nothing but a showman. he loved the attention. i have faith in our supreme court. this supreme court has done the

right thing. i personally know people who have had their homes taken and equity stolen by illegal activities. host: james on outline for democrats, he is in washington, d.c. you are up next. caller: hello? host: you are on. caller: number one, if trump were to invite people to d.c., sit them down to the capital, get impeached, he should have went to the floor. we are going to be in trouble. host: that is james. we will continue on, the question for you when it comes to the former president's legal issues, do you think it hurts or helps his campaign to become president?

202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8002 for independents. another legal case the president is involved in consuming the columnist eugene carol, issuing an order blocking trump at his defense team from discussing carol and the people backing her. including comments about her past romantic and sexual experiences. they may not -- when he made the remarks about her as president. judge kaplan issued a separate order by mr. trump from arguing he did not rape carol. trump was taken to court by carol already and the jury found him liability for sexual abuse

in the 1990's and for determining her when he denied the assault again post-presidency. he wasrdered to pay her $5 million. we will hear from george next -- georgia next, this is ross on the line for republicans. caller: i think what is going on right now, and i am not republican. host: you are calling on the republican line. argue a republican or not -- are you a republican or not? caller: this man is all people. host: i am going to ask you, do you vote republican or not. caller: i am voting republican, yes. host: so when it comes to the former president's legal issues, do you think it helps or hurts him? caller: i think it helps him.

they hate his guts. everybody doing all of this. we had a strong leader. there was a lot going on. we need a strong man to protect this country, do whatever. he was the one for four years. we had a good four years until the epidemic came. it is all hatred for a man trying to protect our country and the american people in it. i am a very patriotic. it does not make any difference to anybody. right now we are in a world of hurt. we need a strong leader, does not matter whether you like his demeanor were his looks, whatever it is. that man is good for this country to protect us.

when it somebody that is strong up there. right now it is all about hate. he came in and said he was going to do what he was good to do, he drank the swamp. host: next up, lisa, democrats line. you are on. caller: let me comment on the previous caller. need a strongman to protect this country, he did not protect those people, those officers at the capitol building. he did not protect people during covid when he called it a hoax. he did not protect thousands of americans than. he did not protect even coming into office, all of those people he scammed out of their money. to did not protect them. donald trump is for donald trump. he did not protect the people that supported him just because

they went against him. host: for all of those things, how do you think it impacts his campaign? caller: it impacts his campaign in the primary? no. maga the republicans -- the maga republicans would never turn against him. let me give props to a caller that set people who have right-thinking will keep donald trump out of the white house. i also want to see this -- to say this, the people that are in the white house in the donald trump administration where he was in office, those people were

not democrats. those people were republican. host: let's hear from mary in texas on if the president -- former president's legal issues help or hurt his campaign. caller: i sit here and listen to this and it is a donald trump thing everyday. i guess biting -- biden is not an important issue. to me in this country, people should be able to decide who they want to vote for. allison to the democrats and a see the hate in their heart and everything else. this is not america. host: do legal issues help or hurt him? she is gone. let's go to virginia, gloria, you are up next. caller: thank you for taking my call.

your question about trump and what is going on with him as far as the core system goes -- the court system goes. i believe immunity is for something that happened. your leadership and the events that happened. when it comes to trump, i believe immunity should not be a brushstroke -- a broad stroke for a president or anyone. on you can predict the future -- unless you can predict the future, we cannot possibly know what a person is going to do tomorrow. as commander in chief, the president is over the military. host: let me step back only

because i believe your strength from the question of ultimately if it is things help him or hurt him when he make that attempt to become president of the united states. caller: i would be glad to answer that. i don't think it is going to help him or hurt him. i think what it has done is open americans' eyes to the fact that the president has to act in a moment, in a second sometimes with a decision. i guess what i am saying is he does not have the time to take everything into consideration in order to protect this country. when it comes to saying he is responsible for every act, including the military, a private can go out on rnr in

negative, big mistake -- in negative -- mecca, big mistake. host: here is more of that exchange at the d.c. court yesterday. this was between special counsel pierce on the question of immunity forhe president. [video clip] >>an you answer the question i posed earlier about are we to look at the broader question. with -- question dlt with i regards to presidential immunity fo no prosecution of official acts versus looking at this indictment at looking as true at the indictment -- at the act there. >> we have a preference that the court adopts the former view and looks at the question as the

district court d wch is to sayas on questions of seraons of powers, nstitutional texts, presidents , tre immunity for a former president. we think the answer to that is no for reasons i'm happy to address here. if the court gives to the second question, there are hard questions about e ture of official acts. i think the judge's hypotheca , what kind of worldree living in if a president orders a seal team to aassinate a political rival and resigned before any impeachment, not a criminal act. president sells a pardon, resigns before impea t not a crime. that is extraordinarily frightening for the future if we

are talking about a balancing and weighing of interests, that should weigh extraordinarily in the court's consideration host: this isonaying i believe it helps his campaign but people with common sense, it destroys his legd buries the republican maga party. will be 10 with 100 million votes -- we will beat him with 100 million votes this type. a lack of defense can and onl will hurt his campaign. the notion that any president is immune from prosecution is ridiculous and unconstitutional. earl is in virginia. good morning. caller: i do not hate donald trump, i do not hate anybody. his granddaddy had a conversation with a man --

host: let's stick to the president day when it comes to the president's legal issues if it hurts or helps his campaign. caller: it should. if it doesn't, it should. host: what you mean by that? caller: look what he has done. my god, there has never been a president who has done anything like him except jefferson davis and he would have been hung if abraham lincoln lived long enough for him to do it. that is the way of the military had whatever. i don't understand why people keep thinking he is some kind of god. host: let's go to bethany in kentucky, democrats line. caller: i do think it will hurt him in the long run.

you cannot have a president not be responsible for his actions. our democracy is in great peril. like one of the previously said, i hope he is held accountable for what he has done and the american people have had enough of this nonsense. the fact that they continue to allow him to get away with what he has stood -- what he has done blows my mind. host: that is bethany. the wall street journal pilots the fact that when it comes to the georgia election interference case, the president indicted august 14, that trial expected to take place august 5 after the republican national convention and his efforts to overthrow the 2020 election, he was indicted march -- august 1,

that is scheduled for march 4 before super tuesday. the documents in mar-a-lago, indicted june 8 and that trial is scheduled may 20. then there is the issue of the payment to stormy daniels, he was indicted april 4, that is scheduled for march 25 after super tuesday. jerry in california, republican line. caller: is -- his legal problems are not good to anything. once the supreme court rules on eligibility, it will go away. the case of a lady in georgia, that is falling apart. he is not a politician, he is a

businessman. we make money. the last four years, we have all lost money. we have a president, everybody thinks he is weak. look at the trouble we have. when trump was in office, that would not happen. his legal problems are going to go away. host: one issue a previous color brought up was issues stemming out of georgia. this being reported by the washington post singh a codefendant in the georgia election interference case against the former president accuses willis of conducting an improper relationship with the persecutor. one of trump's codefendants in the case and a high-ranking campaign aide during the 2020 election alleged a motion filed monday that willis engaged in a

personal relationship with a special prosecutor who had been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. she benefited from those first chips -- for example, she joined him on multiple cruises and trips he paid for. that could amount to fraud or a conflict of interest under georgia's rules of professional conduct. that is something else to watch out for for the former president's various legal issues. in nevada, independent line when it comes to the former president's legal issues. go ahead. caller: i think the legal problem that he has is quick to come back and going to nail him. the courts are there. if you believe anybody here that has listed to this, you would be in prison right now defeated.

the same thing trumpeted. -- if you did the same thing trump did. how is this nazi getting away with all of this stuff? host: teresa in florida, democrats line. caller: i am going to open up with saying bided -- biden his an adult and trouble is a juvenile delinquent. host: let's stick to the topic at hand when it comes to his legal issues hurting or helping his campaign. caller: i think it will hurt and i hope it does. host: why do you think it will hurt? caller: most of what he is doing is criminal. most of what he is doing goes against the american life. host: dominic in new york,

republican line. caller: i'm a vietnam veteran and i see what is going on with this country and it is ridiculous. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: i don't think it is good you heard him. they say principles before personalities. in our government, it is totally ridiculous. host: what you mean by that as far as the legal issues and whether they would help or hurt him? caller: it is not going to hurt him. host: why not? caller: there are other people who are doing worth -- doing worse who are up there with the president. since this guy got in, they are

looking to destroy this person. a lot of people from what i hear on the program are talking about their feelings, not about facts. when he was president of the united states, things were better in all areas, every single area. host: why do you think the legal issues watered him -- issues want to hurt him? caller: because it is all going to go away. this is a big hoax to get him. host: you are listening to the television so he will have to keep going with your statement. caller: this is a big hoax. host: as far as the legal issues, do you think they're going to go away from the former president? caller: sure. they are trying to stop this man from running.

they are using every tactic with the legal issues at all of that. look at the other people, look at the congressman, some of these people, it is insane. host: sal in new jersey, republican line. you are next up. caller: it hurts and it helps. the hurt is financially and the gag order, he cannot say what he wants to save. it helps him with the fan base because anybody with common sense can see this is just to get him. i don't think their took a president off of a pallet -- off of a pallet -- a ballot in my life. just like abraham lincoln said,

you can fool some people some of the time but you cannot fool people all the time. host: do you think those on the fence about donald trump will be swayed by the various legal issues? caller: if they look at the facts of the situation and they don't look with their feelings, yes. this is stopping a person for running for the presidency for what reason? we have 12 million illegal immigrants in the country and nobody cares about president biden doing that. i don't think it is so dangerous, president trump. i think he is the best president of my century i have lived so far. i think he is one of the best of our generation. host: a couple of more minutes with this question by the legal issues of the former president, if you think it helps him or hurts him. you can post online,. facebook -- post on facebook or x.

in maryland, democrats line, this is lauren. caller: good morning. i do believe trump's legal troubles extended to help him in the election season. i say that because trump supporters are so fired up, so motivated that each new charge levied against trouble just motivates them even more to go out to the polls. i believe trump is guilty. i believe he should be prosecuted. i will end with a crude analogy. a little girl is touched by her stepfather inappropriately -- host: i am gradually there. -- i am going to leave it there. john from florida, go ahead. caller: i want to say one thing.

it is like what is going on now with president trump, his legal issues, they are all going to backfire on the democrats like they did in his 2016 campaign. he has done more for this country good during this administration than the previous five presidents put together. i agree with dominic and the other gentleman from new jersey. host: when you say backfire, can you elaborate? caller: when they were trying to persecute him during the 2016 campaign, every legal issue they pulled on him backfired and made his poll numbers go up. host: i do want to remind you that heading into this weekend, especially as we kick off with our iowa caucus coverage on

friday, stay close to c-span not only for issues stemming from the caucuses and various circuits visiting us during that time over the weekend and into monday, but you can also sticklers for events that take place, special coverage, all that on a variety of platforms on c-span.org. you can also follow along on our app on c-span now as we start with our iowa coverage. in colorado, this is the line for democrats. terry, you are up. caller: can you hear me? i think trump should not be president again. i think what he is doing will hurt him. people need to open their eyes and look at this man and figure out what he is doing. he is cricket. -- crooked.

host: why do you think it will hurt his campaign? guest: -- caller: his followers will follow him but i hope more people will open their eyes to see what is really going on. for abiding that for president biden, they need somebody else in there to run. i would choose president biden. host: republican line, charles, you are next. caller: what i see is from day one trump was announced as president and it is all a smokescreen. trump is going to succeed. you can arrest someone for a crime but you have to be committed to it. he did not do anything wrong. everyone enjoyed hearing from, they drive him down, but they're

not good to do that. trump is going to be president. they need to look at the democrats and what is going on with them. they are crooked. host: why do you think the legal issues are going to help them? -- help him? caller: they are not legal issues. they say he did a crime but until he is proven guilty, he is not guilty. host: on the various accounts he has been accused of, do you think he's going to escape all of those? caller: yes he is because there is no proof. it is a democratic flow they are trying to do and it is a big smokescreen. they fight him. -- fought him. if they would work with him, this man is a great man.

joe biden is too old. i am not going to disrespect him. he never did anything while he was in congress. host: we appreciate all of you who participated this morning. coming up, we will hear from two guests on various topics come up first on issues of were security and funding, congressman adriana sb at -- adriano down super pac. we will talk about the issues of campaign 2024 and border policy. that is coming up on washington journal. ♪ >> watch c-span's campaign 2024 coverage as we are on the ground with iowa with republican presidential candidates for a final week of campaigning.

your are the closing argument -- you can hear the closing arguments and experience what it is like on the campaign trail. watch live coverage of the iowa caucuses on the c-span network, or online on the c-span.org/2024. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage you can find it anytime online at c-span.org. videos with key hearings, debates and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting highlights. these point of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. the timeline tool makes it easy to get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's point of interest. ♪ booktv every sunday on c-span2

features leading authors diussing their latest nonfiction books. at 8:00 p.m. eastern, african-american paul pelosi code-4 -- form co-founder shared stories of police violence in her book "say her name." and then rachel slade shares her book "making it in america," where she looks at the challenges of manufacturing goods in united states through the lens of a sweatshirt company in maine. watch booktv and -- every sunday on c-span2, and find a full schedule on your program guide or any time at booktv.org. >> c-span's studentcam documentary competition is back celebrating 20 years with the theme looking forward while considering the past. we are asking middle and high school students to create a five

to six minute video addressing one of these questions, and the next 20 years what is the most important change you would like to see in america? or over the past 20 years what has been the most important change? as we do each year we are giving away $100,000 in total prizes with a grand prize of $5,000 and every teacher who has students participate has the opportunity to share a ption of an additional $50,000. the competition deadline is friday, january 19th, 2024. more information visit our website at studentcam.org. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us now is representative adriano espaillat at who serves on the budget committee and the senior web of the democratic process -- democratic caucus. in light of the announced

topline spending deal, do you think it will pass? guest: first of all, the levels of spending agreed-upon again was pretty much similar to the past agreement that we had over six months ago. the fiscal responsibility act. so in terms, we have something like 860 $6 billion for military spending and $772 billion for domestic spending. what has changed is a clawback of covid funding and something like $16 million for the irs enforcement issues. in essence, it was a similar agreement that we had six months ago. so we wasted all of that time to find ourselves where we began anyway. host: with that trade-off with the irs and covid funding, was not a worthy trade-off? guest: we have to do what we

have to do to avoid a government shutdown. our domestic spending which is critical to the district by represent are things like food stamps, daycare and headstart. all of these things are held intact at a similar level to where they were six months ago. i am pretty content with it. host: the release of it, it was speaker johnson who had a colleague letter and h these final spending levll not set -- will not -- it will continue funding tar the top line instead of the omnibus and then fight for important policy writers." those objectives, what is being meant by that? guest: certainly the cultural war perpetrated by republicans doing -- during the budgetary

processes are not working. i will be looking at that. senator schumer has said that there are no policy writers in this agreement. i believe him. again, this is exactly the same deal that mccarthy lost his leadership on. there are radical elements in the republican party that want to push the envelope further and they are never satisfied. but i believe that this is a good agreement. host: this also includes $70 billion because of a handshake deal from the previous speaker. what is it slated for? guest: a host of things. certainly the domestic spending piece has been a critical one for me. and it includes as i said earlier the safety net issues that are so important to families that are struggling after the pandemic. women, single moms with little kids, daycare, and of course headstart which would allow

people to go back to the workforce. these are important things that are critical to the american people and families across the country. i am happy that they are part of this deal. host: do you get a sense that the democratic caucus on the whole will be supportive. i know that you express despite concerns that most of the democrats will go along with a? guest: there is never a perfect agreement and you can always pick a little item here and they are to derail an agreement, but for the most part it is consistent to what we agreed on before and i am willing to vote for it again. host: our guest is with us until 8:30 and if you want to ask him questions, 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independent, 202-748-8002. you can also text at 202-748-8003. representative, deadlines are coming up in january as part of

the funding process. remind people of those deadlines and what is your sense that things will be resolved to keep government funding? guest: january 18 is a deadline and we can always go back to a continuing resolution and expanding just a little bit further in case we do not reach a full agreement. i am appropriate or and the ranking member of the legislative branch subcommittee. we have done much of the work in the appropriations committee, there are three buckets that remain to be done. we could choose to go directly to the floor, so i am looking forward to avoiding the deadline on the shutdown. nobody wants a shutdown. the american people do not want a shutdown. they want to see government work for them. we have to put all of our efforts forward in making sure you make that deadline. host: how many appropriation bills have been done and what is left? guest: 12 cut -- subcommittees

and three buckets outstanding including some subcommittees that are so important to the american people. the bulk of them, the most important ones, agriculture has not been done. so we need to go back to the table and do the work of the american people. host: because of the deal that was announced, does it change the topline figure on each of the bills? guest: no, i think we will confine ourselves to those goals set forward first by president biden and mccarthy and now leader schumer, jeffries and johnson. let me say this to you. the last time around the republican radicals came in back to the table, to the appropriations table and said that they wanted to cut further. and so that was the real issue for us that we had a handshake deal between the president and the speaker and they reneged on the deal.

so now we are facing a similar situation, but i think this time around we will be able to avoid the shutdown. host: and is that safe from the house freedom caucus or are there other factors? guest: the house freedom caucus primarily that there are other loose cannons out there that will choose to derail the process that would avoid a shutdown. host: again our guest is with us. before we take calls, there is one other issue facing congress, the suppose it future of the homeland security secretary alejandra mayorkas with efforts to impeach him this week. what you think of this effort? guest: i think it is a sham process to say that he is responsible for immigration issues that have been lingering for decades. we have not done a comprehensive immigration reform for decades and to say that one person, who i think for the most part has done a good job at the border keeping it together, to say that

he is responsible for all of that is a sham process. you saw what happened yesterday in ecuador, gangs came into a studio like this one and held people up at gunpoint. that is a kind of disarray and that have a that is impacting the americas. there is a crisis of democracies in america. it is not an ideological one, but more about governments that have not produced for their people. and we saw what happened yesterday in ecuador. a country for the most part that had avoided the kind of violence that has been perpetrated in other countries by criminal gangs and drug cartels. now, it finds itself in violence with kidnapping with a group of armed thugs coming into a studio like this one and holding everyone up at gunpoint.

you can pretty much predict that there will be an exodus of people fleeing that violence from ecuador. now is mayorkas responsible? i do not think so. this is a sham process in a political year. host: republicans say that condition of the southern border falls at the feet of the biden administration. how would you respond? guest: this week we saw a decrease in border crossing. what we saw prior to that was coyotes and gang leaders and cartels, pretty much falsely reporting that the cvp1 app and asylum process was shut down and we saw a rush to the border. for the most part this week we saw a significant decrease. and again, mayorkas is not responsible for that. he has been trying to deal with this since -- systematically and in a responsible way.

i think this is a political play during the election with year. host: decreases this week and higher numbers leading up to it. guest: no question and i am not denying that. we should have comprehensive immigration reform and be able to do something different at the border. i will acknowledge that we must have some level of improvement in border security. but we could discuss that. we should do more with ports of entry, that is where most of the federal help comes in. the other side of the aisle tries to portray the situation as though migrants are bringing in fentanyl. fentanyl comes through the ports of entry primarily in vehicles. host: our guest is representative andriy ando asp a lot -- andriano espillat. steve from illinois. go ahead. caller: i and i want to know --

we cannot take in half a million or one million people coming in each year through the border. feeding them and housing them. the democratic mayors are finally realizing this. number two is like it is cutting into our homeless veterans and cutting into our schools, which we have to pay more taxes to, the taxpayers too. three is the wars. throughout eastern european and the middle east, and the bombing of our troops. host: you put three out there and we will let our guest respond. guest: i will start backwards.

first on the war, we are trying to help ukraine defeat vladimir putin and the russians. i think that has very serious implications and consequences. not just for europe and the european union, not just for the european economy. but for the world economy including the u.s. economy. that is an issue where it has an implication with the future of nato and peace on the planet. and so that is something that we cannot ignore and we are currently debating whether and how we will find the ukraine. and of course the ukraine is running out of money and they have to determine which city they will protect and which city they will not protect when the russian troops decide to attack. this is a serious situation that is not just exclusive for europe or the ukraine.

i think it impacts the rest of the world. and so we have to take action on that. with regards to the cities, i am of the belief that city should get additional funding to address migrant crisis. i fight every day to ensure that new york city and other cities like houston or chicago get additional funding to address the migrant crisis. frankly, i believe that a work permit is the answer to that problem. most migrants want to come and work, and we should give them a work permit. the economy needs them and we are still lagging from the covid-19 pandemic. and that is precisely what we need. there is hunger to do better for themselves and their families, to pay taxes for america. i think that is the answer to this issue, a work permit. host: spring, texas. republican line.

joel, go ahead. caller: i have been a viewer since 1979. may i first have a comment for c-span and then a couple of questions for the representative. please bring on, whether you have a democrat or republican, a person of a differing view so that we might have a more robust conversation here. it was done in the past. ask your producers to please put two people on at a time. people willing to come on c-span. host: ok, the question for the representative, please. caller: there certainly is. sarah, we are over 30 -- sir, we are over $30 trillion in debt, do you find that to be problematic? guest: the debt is always a problem. and i believe that one of the ways we can avoid the debt is to

make sure that we have greater revenue. and we have seen our debt dramatically increase as pre--- as we provided massive tax cuts for the very rich during the past decades. ever since ronald reagan we have seen a dramatic in taxes for the extreme rich, wealthy rich. not the middle class, not the working class. one of the ways to avoid further indenting of america is to ensure that we have fair taxation practices across the board. host: do you think that trade-off with the irs funding will limit the ability of the irs to get taxes from those that owe them? guest: it will limit the ability for the irs to get tax cheats and the very wealthy ones that use iams and fraud to avoid paying taxes. so we must have a dramatic tax reform to ensure that there is

fairness in taxes. there should not be a situation where a nurse or police officer are paying a higher proportion of taxes than a very wealthy ceo. host: from georgia. independent line. you are on with our guest. caller: yes. i just want to say that they are cutting the most vulnerable people's in this country's benefits in order to fund and get the money that they are talking about in this country to live on. and this is not right. it is a shame. america is the richest country and it should not be doing their most vulnerable citizens the way they do. i will take my answer off the line. have a good day. guest: thank you for your questions.

i am concerned about the future of social security and the threats to cut dramatic benefits for future generations. and, we work every day to try and avoid that philosophy, which is ingrained in the very radical right of the republican party. on the other hand, we saw how food stamps dramatically increased during the pandemic. i think we should continue to provide that kind of help. food insecurity continues to be a major issue among americans. and you have to go to the food pantry to see the length of the lines of folks. it is no longer just homeless people making the lines at food pantries. it is families, seniors, people in dire need of healthy food. so i believe that food stamp be increased dramatically. caller: you serve on the appropriations and budget committees, he saw the blood --

the biden administration deliver a to israel outside of congress. do you think it was the right move and do you think where it is in future aid is concerned? guest: i think we should continue to provide military aid. we saw how the iron dome protected israel. had we not funded the iron dome we would not be speaking about israel as we know it. a good portion of it would have been destroyed. i believe it should be done within the appropriations process. i do not think that that process should be usurped. the cutiogives the appropriators the power of the purse and we should continue to exercise that power. host: brian on the independent line new mexico. guest: good morning. i would like to drill down on the issue of housing. more and more americans simply cannot afford to live an american lifestyle. and most of our metropolitan areas, housing is getting

extremely expensive and most average americans can barely afford it. we have a shortage. on top of that the democrats will let billions of immigrants flow into the country and most of them have no money. so please tell the audience where are all of the immigrants going to live and how are they going to afford to live there? it is a simple question. guest: if we give immigrants the work permit than they will do exactly what prior migrants had done throughout the history of our nation. they would rent a room, live in the basement and make ends meet and move forward and pay taxes. and that will make our economy a stronger and do the jobs that other americans are unwilling to do. they will help us bounce back from the covid-19 pandemic. i think they are a plus not a negative. i do not think they are

necessarily taking away from anybody. i believe that some of them have already begun to work and they are contributing to the economies of those cities. i believe that the cities need more help, and i fight every day to make sure that we are getting additional funding for new york city and the district i represent. host: how do you respond to your city's mayor, what he said over the last weeks about migrants coming in and his concerns. guest: there are a lot of concerns about migrants not just in new york city but chicago and houston and other major cities. again, i think that having the work port -- work permit extended to them is critical. we see how they say consistency -- consistently that the only thing they need is work. you go to a west -- restaurant and order food and it is delayed and the owner will say he needs additional workers. people that are building homes

and that are in the construction building will tell you that they need additional workers. the agricultural industry will tell you that they need additional workers. we have them here. let us give them the work permit. host: let mayor adams also talked about the cities as far as those moving in, where do they house them? guest: housing is an issue. and permanent housing is an issue. i think he has done a good job at addressing the crisis. and i believe that the city needs additional funding to address the crisis. i think the overall answer and he has stated that is allow them to work. host: have he talked to you or you to him about this? guest: absolutely. host: what is the nature of the conversation? guest: how to get additional funding. we saw how president -- biden expedited their ability to

access their work permits. we have seen them working and on their own. host: constance in maryland. democrat line. caller: hello how are you doing? my question is to you both. one, isn't there something congress can do about the governor of texas trafficking human beings? two, why hasn't congress fixed to the immigration system? guest: there is no political will right now to do comprehensive immigration reform. in fact immigration has been an issue that has been rep -- weaponized every four years and it is utilized as it is being attempted to be utilized for political purposes. we must get to that. even the low hanging fruits within the immigration debate which is not a simple debate because the immigration debate has three mirrors and tps recipients, family reunification

and a host of issues within the broader immigration debate. and we have not seen even those low hanging fruits. like streamers, young -- dreamers who came and who are nurses, teachers and homeowners and business owners. we have not seen the will to bring those dreamers and. in terms, it is utilized as a political weapon and that is what is happening right now. i think part of our legislation, the dignity act which is a bipartisan piece of legislation supported by republicans and democrats. i think that particular bill provides a role to potentially do comprehensive immigration reform. host: republican line. alex in delaware. hello. you are on. go ahead. caller: ok, i have something to

say about immigration. they have immigration laws on the books. and i want to know how are they allowed to not go by the laws that are on the books and get away with it? if they went by the laws on the books none of the stuff that is going on would be happening. i just won a real answer to my question. that is all. host: ok. thank you. guest: i am not too clear on what the question is. if he is alluding to the claim that immigrants break the law, that is totally false. all studies show that new immigrants do not leave their homes looking to get arrested or to break the law. in fact, they look for ways to stay within the confines of the law. and see how they can move forward with their families.

regular families and regular people in america, citizens and legal residents are more likely to break the law than immigrants coming in and trying to legalize. host: i think he was alluding to enforcement of court -- current laws and enforcement. guest: there are laws that govern the asylum process. i believe in asylum. if someone comes in from ecuador, even what happened yesterday, we ought to give them a shot to make their claim about why they should seek asylum in the united states of america. asylum is an important part of our legacy as america. it is an important part of our ability to be a leader in the world. so we must continue to support the process that allows asylum to migrants that could make their case before our currents. -- courts. host: palmyra, alabama. independent line.

you are up. elmira, and alabama. hello. caller: good morning. host: you are on. caller: i have a question or two regarding immigration. the issue is very complex, i understand that. however, if during the obama administration the affordable care act could be pushed through congress with over 1000 pages, and it is extremely complex. it was done in less than four years. how come the democrats and the republicans cannot get their act together and pass an immigration and border bill? this is absurd that -- host: we have the point and let me take her point, but on the

senate side there efforts to pass a bill and there are hiccups when it comes to the issue of parole. you think we will get resolved and we will have a border deal happen? guest: hr2 is specifically a border enforcement measure. i think the dignity act which is led by congresswoman salazar, republican from florida and congresswoman escobar, a democrat from texas and myself from new york. it is one that provides measures that will improve the conditions of security and safety at the border and also provide comprehensive immigration reform. i think that is the route to go. i think that it is a bipartisan route. i agree with the caller that if we were able to do obamacare, we should be able and should have the political will to do comprehensive immigration reform. that includes a level of border protection and of course reforms

to allow immigrants to access asylum and parole. host: you are the deputy chair of the hispanic caucus. can i ask about polling. you've probably seen headlines like this about black and hispanic support fraying from the president. when you see that how do you react to that? guest: it is a snapshot of a particular moment. most voters begin to become laser focused three or four weeks before the election. in politics a week is an attorney t. and i think that will change. i think the american people and particularly latinos who were disproportionally heard by the pandemic will remember that when we faced a crisis of our lifetime, your lifetime in my lifetime that president biden was there with us to give us additional food stamps, that president biden was there to

give the ppp loans to small businesses. that he gave us the stimulus check and that people who were unemployed got unemployment benefits from the state and federal government. in new york as high as $1000 a week. that president biden was there to provide the child tax credit, already $500 per child in the five years and -- under five years and $15,000 from five to 17 years of age. he was there through the biggest and worst crisis of our lifetime. he ushered us through that crisis. i think that we will remember that and we will get him reelected. host: how well do you think he is doing delivering the message to particularly hispanic voters? guest: the message could be delivered better especially to the latino community which is very diverse. a message to a puerto rican like yourself would be different than to a dominican like myself.

we must do better to message what the president has done. but clearly during the crisis of our lifetime, president biden was there. host: lee in illinois, my credit line. -- democratic line. caller: good morning pedro and representative. i am so confused about the republicans saying they believe that the immigrants will be voting democratic, and yet add it is shipping -- abbott is shipping them across the country. my question is, until we get a border security or technology and until we get judges, why are we using something like guantanamo bay? somewhere where we can hold people until they get to the court system? that is my question. guest: certainly there should be additional resources provided

for the courts to process the case is quicker. i think that is important. that should be part of immigration reform. certainly there should be funding for improving the conditions of ports of entry. that should be something part of immigration reform. but also how to fix family reification should be part of immigration reform. very often a mom or dad has to wait seven to 15 years to reunite with their children. often those children are now adults and are now ineligible to be able to reunite with their parents. and so we must have a balanced approach that includes of course things like family reification, parole, asylum-seekers, but also border security. host: what do you think congress should do in addressing the issues concerning lloyd austin,

the information that he withheld over the last few weeks and what it could have done to national security issues? guest: the secretary has apologized the president, i certainly think that he was serious. the president is the commander-in-chief of armed forces. he should have known about this and there is no excuse for it. but i think that we should evaluate his performance, not just based on this incident, but also in what he has done throughout his years in the armed forces. in clearly he put together a tremendous coalition support of ukraine, and he has been steadfast in ensuring that nato stays together and is stronger. you have to evaluate his full performance and not maybe a lapse in one case that obviously , a serious case for men of color like ourselves to deal with prostate cancer is a serious case.

host: he serves the state -- the city of new york, also a member of the appropriations and hispanic caucus. thank you for filling in for all of those, that's a lot of titles. host: we are going into open forum. we will take those calls in a few moments. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. we will take those open form calls when washington journal continues. ♪ >> in the weeks that lie ahead as the television series unfolds a famous influential men and women will occupy those seats and will have a lot to say about the society in which we live today and the solutions for the ills of our time. >> beginning saturday, january

13 at 7:00 p.m. eastern american history tv will air the series free to choose featuring milton freeman -- milton friedman who coproduced the series with his wife and fellow economist rose friedman and it first appeared in 1980. they also wrote a best-selling companion book. programs take us two locations important to the u.s. and world economy. they advocate free-market principles and limited government intervention in the economy and social policies. other topics include welfare, education, consumer and worker part action and inflatio saturday january 13 at 7:00 p.m. eastern american history tv on c-span2. >> c-span -- c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. rouse there are products, apparel, books, home decor and assess raise.

there is something for every fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit organization. shop now or any time at c-spanshop.org. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington, live and on-demand. keep up with the day's biggest events of live streams of four proceedings of white house events, the court, campaign and more from the world of politics all at your fingertips. you could also stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and provide -- and find scheduling information for rtv would networks -- our tv networks and radio. scan the qr code to download it for free today or visit c-span.org/c-spannow. c-span now, your front row seat

to washington, anytime, anywhere. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this, it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are. because the opinion that metals the most -- matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ >> c-span's student camera documentary competition is back celebrating 20 years with the theme looking forward while considering the past. we are asking middle and high school students to create a five to six minute video addressing one of these questions. in the next 20 years what is the most important change would like to see inri or over the

past 20 years what has been the most important change in america. as we do each year we are giving away $100,000 in total prizes with a grand prize of $5,000 and every teacher who has students participate has the opportunity to share a portion of an additional $50,000. the competition deadline is friday, january 19 in 2020 -- 2024. for more information visit studentcam.org. >> booktv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 8:00 p.m. eastern, kier crenshaw shares black women's stories of police violence in her book "say hename." and then in afterwards, reachers laid -- rachel slade shares her book which looks at the

challenges of manufacturing in the united states the eyes of a sweatshirt firm. watch booktv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide her watch anytime online at booktv.org. washington journal continues. host: our next guest is ken cuccinelli, founder of never back down a super pac found -- supporting ron desantis and then he served as the truck -- in the trump foundation. thank you for giving us your time. guest: my pleasure and good to be with you. host: how do you describe or explain that you work for the former president and yet you are not endorsing him this time around? guest: needless to say it is a question i get a lot. i was the acting deputy secretary at the department of homeland security and i worked closely with president trump.

i am not in the anti-trump category, but i saw how much more effective we could have been with better leadership and better decision-making, more follow-through, and more determination, frankly. i believe that ron desantis has those traits. he has demonstrated them as the governor of florida and has done so very effectively and some of the most difficult circumstances that governors have faced in our lifetimes. and he has shined effectively in a way that i believe would provide great national leadership. i will give you one example. while we worry about the national debt driving inflation and really getting out of control. we are losing control of our government because of the budget deficit. at the same time, governor of florida, governor desantis, has reduced florida's debt by 25%. i think they have achieved the

status of the lowest debt per capita in the whole country. he is leaving florida in a positive direction, which is the opposite of the federal government. and that is one of those areas in which president trump who increase the debt by more than any other president does not look good in the scorecard, if you will. for people like me who care about long-term fiscal sustainability and what we are passing to our children, that is a very important issue. it is only one. we will talk about immigration. i believe that governor desantis would be more effective on immigration then president trump was and then biden is. he has opened the door and implemented an open border policy. so i do get asked, having worked with the president why am i not supporting him? part of it is my experience working with him has led me to look for a better option. i believe that ron desantis is a

better option. i hope the people of iowa this coming monday agree as a trudge through the snow to vote in their caucuses. and, we will leave the world of polling on monday and get to the world of voting, which is what really counts. in sports, that is why they play the games. we will find out how that operates. the subject we are talking about today, immigration. there are several major differences between what a president desantis would do versus what a president trump was willing to do. that would secure the border, and actually get us -- i was listening to a good chunk of the last show and people were listening -- were interested in why won't congress address the problem? i think if you secure the border you have prepared the a political environment to move forward with actual immigration reform. i do not think anybody doubts that we need that.

we all have different ideas of what that might look like. it will not happen until the border is secure and under joe biden we have gotten the opposite, literally throwing the doors open and intentionally implementing an open border policy. it has brought 10 million people illegally into the country. host: i do want to ask about immigration but i want to talk about governor desantis for a second. you talked about scorecards. what does the campaign need to see as far as results and determine how much further he needs to go? guest: well the governor decides that himself. i work with the super pac. for your viewers that means i do not work with the campaign. i support the governor's efforts, for instance. we have just knocked on our 3 millionth door talking to individual voters, almost one million in iowa, but other early states as well. we have run our own ads and run

a communications effort to encourage people to support governor desantis but i do not get to talk to the campaign directly. my own opinion is that he has to perform above expectations and show that he can compete with president trump in iowa. that is the key, showing competitiveness with president trump. the best way to do that is to come in first place. but it is close and they are from first to second and there is a big distance with third place than when -- then we will know it is a one-on-one race between desantis and trump. and i think that would change the dynamics through the rest of the contest. meaning that in the other states, new hampshire, nevada and so forth on down. super tuesday is the big one, march 5. my home state of virginia votes with a good 15 states, i want to say will vote that day. and a bunch the weekend before.

the next two months will go a long way to determining if not completely determining who the republican nominee will be to face joe biden in the fall. and i think that america is ready for the change. and i hope that it will be ron desantis. because there is no question based on his record, 10 years of consistent performance and great leadership as governor that he is the best prepared to be the president of the united states come january, 2025. host: we will continue on with our conversation with ken cuccinelli. we plan to go into open forum after 9:00. if you want to ask about not only governor desantis' campaign or issues of immigration, 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. you can text us at 202-748-8003. mr. cuccinelli, you talked about

the various people in the context. for your own personal concerns, what your thoughts about how dickey factors into governor desantis' chances? guest: she factors in and there are three buckets of knopp -- voters, people who will vote for president no matter what, people who will vote against president trump no matter what i will come back to that. and then there are people like me who like the policies that we saw implemented under president trump and do not have a personal problem with the president. but, believe that it is time to move onto to better leadership. she cannot compete with that category of voters. it is about separate thirds and the republican nominating electorate. she has no poll with folks -- pull with folks who want to see strong border security and with folks who have been fiscally

conservative. she has a track record of being expansive in the foreign policy area. that is not a popular position among republican voters these days. i do not see a way for her to compete with the president and that middle bucket. back to the anti-trump bucket, those folks will vote for whomever they believe will be president trump. and that is why it is important for governor desantis to be able to demonstrate that he can compete and defeat president trump in all -- in iowa, and it will be obvious that if nikki haley is not in the race that ron desantis would win the votes and be president trump. nikki haley does not have that path. you know, the sooner that this is down to a one-on-one race the more likely it is that governor desantis will collect enough

delegates to be president trump on the first ballot when the national convention rolls around in july. host: let us take a call from earl from indiana. line from republicans. you are on with ken cuccinelli, founder of never back down and also served in the trump administration. go ahead. caller: thank you for letting me call. mr. cuccinelli, i tell you, i am so disgusted with the republicans. why they cannot see that mr. trump has been picked on even before he was president. he has done a good job and right now they are trying to get people not to vote. we want democracy and honesty, and trump has not lied. he did everything he said he would do and you guys would like him if you get something done.

half of you cannot even pronounce their names. host: that is earl in indiana. guest: a couple of things. first on president trump, he did not do everything he said he would do. and i will use examples. he said that he would prosecute hillary clinton for breaking the law which he did. but within days of the election she she said she is alike -- a nice lady and we do not want to do that. and then to complain that people are being selectively prosecuted by the people he hired, for instance christopher wray who just added to the deep state and let it grow and metastasize, that is a failure of what he said he was going to do. he said he would build a wall, he did not finish it. he did not really begin building until his fourth year and had a republican congress for the first two years. he was not as tough as he could have been on the border. he was the toughest we have had any while.

but both he and joe biden sent the military to the border for example. and it was for show. they did not do anything. in the trump administration they helped process people and backed up border patrol. they did not stop a single person from invading. he did not do what he said he would do. he did not go after the cartels or balance the budget which he promised to do and instead he gave us more debt than any other president in history. these are reasons that i support ron desantis because the president failed to do these very important things that he did promise to do. i agree with you that the border needs to be closed. one difference between governor desantis and what president trump was willing to do is that governor desantis has said that he is willing to send the military to the border to close the border between the legal ports of entry so that everybody coming into this country has to come through legal ports of entry.

they cannot cross illegally. i do immigration think tank work for the center for renewing america. we will put a paper out speaking to the military as a tool to close the border. it is perfectly legal -- legal and constitutional for the president to do it. there is some controversy, enough that president trump afraid to do it. and governor desantis -- desantis is prepared to do it. i appreciate your vehemence. i do think that president trump did some good things, but he did not do the things that he promised to do. if he did i would be supporting him for election again. but i believe we can do better with governor desantis and i believe that the american people will trust him more to get the task done while balancing the budding -- the budget and leading our country. i look forward to the votes being cast and i hope that is the way it ends up. but, as i say, that is why they

play the game and we will see what voters have to say. host: andrew. new york. democrats line. caller: thank you and good morning. thank you for taking my call. question. everyone talks about having a secure border but no one talks about what that means. i presume we are talking about a brick and mortar wall 32 million miles -- 32 miles across the border -- host: i am sorry about that we are going to have to ask you to watch the language. as far as the approach which he was -- was referencing. if you wanted to elaborate on that. guest: yes. he asked what do we mean by a secure border. the law actually defines it. a secure border is knowing everyone who is crossing. will we ever get to 100%? probably not. but we have not made a serious

effort to get close. and i do not think that is going to happen. i agree that we will not see 2000 miles of wall built from the pacific to the gulf of mexico. that alone does not solve the problem. you need the manpower behind that border with the political will to stop people from entering and to return those who come in illegally. we do not have that. we did not have that under president trump and we would have that under president desantis. i do believe that the most cost-effective way to close the border and to reach that level of security is to use the military, to deploy it from texas to california in those areas where we know that the cartels are trafficking people across and let us not forget, it is the cartels that drive the traffic. they steer the traffic and they make money off of it. the most evil and vicious people in the western hemisphere have

monetize the open borders policy to make lands of dollars, kill thousands of people a year across this hemisphere and destabilize governments to the south. that is something that we are contributing to with this open border policy. i believe going the other direction of securing the border helps defeat and the fund -- defund the cartels and it would help to go after them. president biden and president trump did not do that. presidents desantis has promised that he would do that. host: how much of the strategy is working with other countries to slow the levels of migration? guest: that is a critical elements that he has spoken to. there have been periods of time and in the trump administration where we had cooperation from mexico, honduras, wada model and

-- guatemala, and el salvador. it can be rough to get that kind of cooperation with a president in mexico who is frankly facilitating the illegal immigration across his country and into ours. but when they cooperate to help slow it down, it makes an enormous difference. if mexico knew that no one would be able to freely traverse mexico and walk into the united states, otherwise it would be stuck in the northern part of mexico you would find mexico would start guarding its southern border more tightly. it has a very small southern border relative to the u.s.-mexico border. that border has its own challenges. it is forested just by way of example. but it is easier to cover that small amount of territory then it is the nearly 2000 miles between the united states and mexico. host: dave in south carolina. independent line.

caller: good morning, gentlemen. mr. cuccinelli, and your own words for everyone listening and watching, could you please define woke. guest: woke? caller: woke. guest: i would define woke as describing a cultural push towards policies like dei, diversity and equality as they are described but as a workout they tend up -- they tend to do reverse discrimination against white people, asian discrimination at harvard and in the local high school here where i live, the governor's school. and it is prioritizing the political correctness that goes along with it over profits for companies as we have seen with

disney and budweiser and so forth, or forcing political conformity like we see at university is in most of the country. i would note that this is something that governor desantis has effectively dealt with in florida including in higher education, which in my view as a conservative is the most difficult institution, the most determinedly left-wing, communist institution in the united states. and i have often wondered whether it could be fixed. i believe that governor desantis has shown in florida that it can be fixed and you can get away from the indoctrination that goes with wokeness and get back to education with a free exchange of all ideas including ideas that people might not like, which is the best way to refute them which is to bring them out in the open and have those discussions. and so, i would define woke that way.

it is easier to define in particular segments whether it is business, education, and so forth. it is a major problem that goes hand-in-hand with political correctness and a push in that direction. which has been so destructive in this country. destructive for this country. host: on capitol hill, there will be an effort to start the impeachment of alejandro mayorkas over immigration. what do you think of that effort? guest: he was hired to implement an open border policy that was intentional on the part of joe biden. we have now passed over 10 million people who have crossed that border illegally in the joe biden administration, which is what mayorkas is responsible for. i think that part of the problem with mayorkas is he lies about what he is doing under oath to

congress, impeachable. also, there is the destructiveness of the polics he is pursuing. we see this on a bipartisan basis. you see the democratic governor of arizona complaining bitterly about these policies to the biden administration. we see sanctuary city mayors all over the country who, when illegals are bussed from the border area to their cities, scream out for what is only a day or two worth of illegal border crossings. those are democrats, not republicans. that is a policy being headed by secretary mayorkas. the combination about him lying about the policies he is implementing, as well as the damage of the policies he is implementing, i think is going to lead to an impeachment that will come out of the committee. i hope it will not be a

party-line vote. if it is, that means no conviction in the senate, but i believe there are a lot of democrats who are unhappy with the policies of this straight and how destructive -- this administration and how destructive they are in their communities. all of the sentinel virtually -- fentanyl virtually is coming across the southern border, manufactured by cartels with materials obtained from china. the biden administration knows this, sec. mayorkas knows this and does little to impede those destructive elements coming across the border, bank say nothing of terrorists and criminals. i think there is a place for impeachment. it is more appropriate to impeach secretary mayorkas then president biden but president biden has his own issues.

it appears he made a good bit of money while he was vice president, altering policies of the united states. that might be more appropriate for the president, but given the border situation and sec. mayorkas lying about it, i think this impeachment is an appropriate response. it is one of the few responses that congress has. given their limited number of choices, they are proceeding with one that is available. host: john, arizona, independent line. caller: i think that c-span does great. first, you have a person from the left, and now a person from the right. i will say that the man that you are following -- i like results. he has shown that he can do results pertaining to florida and on the circumstances down

there. i wish he would discuss more the positive things that your candidate has done. what do you think of having nikki haley as vice president? guest: i appreciate the question. we got a question about wokeness earlier from south carolina. this is one of those areas where governor desantis has been a leader. each of these states has enormous economic assets in the business realm. governor desantis is leading a coalition of states against the esg agenda. this takes businesses away from making profits. while making profits may sound like a grubby undertaking, that is the point of businesses. it is why shareholders invest in them.

with over half of americans owning shares in businesses as part of their retirement, it is critical that our businesses focus on growing our economy by performing better. the governor has pushed hard and not direction. at the same time, i already mentioned his efforts in higher education. he has successfully moved florida higher education away from indoctrination with the woke agenda and back to education. he has done the same thing in k-12 while removing the often disgusting elements that folks in teachers unions and the woke left want to push on children, even in kindergarten, sexualized content that is inappropriate, letting boys play in gross sports -- girls sports with the transgender agenda that is dangerous.

one of the boxing associations is now letting men who claim to be women to fight women. that is just not safe. it is not safe to have that situation in sports. the governor has fixed all of that in florida. has reduced the debt in florida by about 25%. florida now has the lowest per capita debt of any state in the country, something we need at the federal level. he has done that while lowering taxes. he has been able to do that because he is made florida so attractive the more people are moving into florida than any other state. the old ronald reagan missive of people voting with their feet. he has also done when he can do to fight illegal immigration. he has been amongst the leaders in moving those coming into the country illegally to sanctuary cities to bring home to those

cities the real impact illegal immigration can half. also, we talk about the southwest border. florida faces a sea-going illegal immigration from out of the caribbean. the closest country to the u.s. down there is the bahamas, 48 miles away. they often make fast runs with high-value, illegal immigrants, particularly from china, who may pay as much as he thousand dollars a person, higher than what you see being paid across the southern border, to go to florida. the governor has -- he was one of the first to respond when the gaza terrorist attack on israel happened on october 7. our own government, while paying to fly illegal aliens from the

southern border all over the united states, would not bring americans home from israel out of a war zone. the governor of florida brought floridians and others home, hundreds of them quickly, when it became apparent that joe biden and the federal administration would not act. last but not least, governor desantis has proven himself the single best first responder to natural disasters in american history. hurricane ian came ashore over lee county. the track shifted in the last 72 hours. lee county is where my parents live. my father, an engineer, was impressed by the response from the governor who led an effort to rebuild bridges and causeways in 102 weeks to reconnect islands with the mainland of florida.

that is an amazing accomplishment. it does not happen because the governor's absence fingers. it happens because he prepared before, made good decisions during, and executed follow-up superbly. there has never been a president or governor who has done as good a job. we saw it again a year ago this fall when another hurricane hit florida during the governor's reelection campaign. lots of people in the media, certainly charlie crist, were hoping the governor would fall on his face. instead, he performed spectacularly, reserving life and property and doing it better than anybody. that is a role the president has to perform as well. host: i want to get dolores in from tennessee, democrats. caller: good morning.

host: go ahead. caller: i am sick and tired of republicans --host: i think we are having a connection issue. let's try ulysses in south carolina, democrats line. caller: hello. i have two questions for your guest. he is calling -- host: go ahead and ask your question. caller: i want to ask your guest about donald trump. why is he calling him president? president of what? guest: well, former presidents keep the title. people call the attorney general.

i was the attorney general of virginia. the american people stood the on -- bestowed that on him in 2016. that is for life. caller: my second question -- on the border. all i see is a fence. host: we will leave it there. mr. cuccinelli? guest: wall versus fence? there are both on the border. there was more wall built during president trump's term, almost all built in the last year, but it was not nearly what he had promised to do. there is also fencing at various points. there is no single, magical tool for barricading the border and funneling the flows through legal ports of entry.

both are used, ideally where appropriate. you have more work to do on that front. need more wall that is hard to scale and penetrate. it needs to be defended by people committed to protecting -- protecting the united states, unlike the current president and secretary. and the men and women of the border patrol are hold -- held back from performing their mission and this making use of that wall. walls and fences are only tools. they do not solve the problem of illegal immigration. no wall and no fence will work in the absence of manpower behind her alongside that barrier that is ready to protect america's border and people. the men and women of the border patrol are ready to protect us if they had an administration that would let them do it.

instead, under the biden administration, we are opening the doors to cartels, criminals, terrorists, anyone who wants to can into the country. so far, over 10 million people have done exactly that. host: ken cuccinelli, with the organization never back down, representative ron desantis as he runs for the presidential nomination. thanks for your time. guest: good to be with you. have a great day. host: as promised, we will revert to open form. if you want to participate until 10:00, you can call (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents, (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. we will pick up those calls would washington journal continues. ♪

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the things we will watch out for around 10:00 is the heland security committee as they meet to start the process of possibly impeaching alejandro mayorkas over issues of immigration. you can see that at 10:00 on c-span three, c-span now, and our website, c-span.org. let's start in florida, democrats line, john. good morning. caller: good morning. i tried to get on when mr. cuccinelli was in. being from florida, i know what he said is a lie. the explain some things mr. desantis said. first, free speech. he knows he's going to lose. second, he is trying -- who does

he think he is? mr. know it all? now he is trying to get kids under 16 you cannot have a social media contract. >> what about abortion? host: we will go to john in maine, independent line. caller: good morning. one burning question -- i have been watching c-span for the last couple of weeks. i just realized something. is everything good with you? host: why would you ask? guest: -- caller: you seem tense. host: feeling good so far, but thank you for asking. at 10:00, impeachment hearing of l.a. under mayorkas. what to expect on capitol hill

when it comes to that hearing, this reporter from the washington examiner will talk a bit about what to expect. thanks for giving us your time. as far as what we might see play out today, what will happen? guest: homeland security will have three attorney general's from non-border states testify. they are from missouri, montana, oklahoma. they are set to testify about how this is not just a border state issue. we saw some -- excerpts from two of their statements. even though oklahoma is not on the border, montana and missouri are not on the southern border. they are feeling the effects of this problem. they are going to point to l.a. hundred mayorkas. they will point to his policies

and really try to frame how it is a dereliction of duty and how that warrants impeachment. that is what the -- how they are going to frame it. that is what they are going to say. democrats are going to push back, quite heavily. there are quite a few democratic lawmakers who have been saying this is not right, impeaching somebody just because you disagree with their policies. this is supposed to be for high crimes and misdemeanors. we will see how this plays out, but for now, there is comfort. people feel comfortable voting to impeach mayorkas, even some of the more centrist republicans. host: will this be the start of a multi-hearing process? what happens after today specifically? what is the process? guest: we will see more than one

hearing. they will have -- but anything to probably see a few more hearings and more than likely a vote on impeachment. large retailer grain has -- marjorie taylor greene has said we are promised a vote on impeachment. we will see how that plays out. will there actually be a vote? it is expected that there will be able to impeach alejandro mayorkas. host: this comes as he is working on the senate side to make some type of border security deal happened. the process in the house at least alter what is happening in the senate? guest: not necessarily but it makes it difficult. if you are being impeached by one chamber and working with the other to try to fix this problem, get more legislation and more security measures, how can that not hurt? you will be distracted on one

side and try to work with the other to get something done. it is going to be difficult. no way it is not going to be. i think it will make it more difficult. host: our viewers can see that process play out starting at 10:00. one of the other issues for the people that will be front and center on capitol hill is that of hunter biden. what do we expect? guest: two separate markups -- one by judiciary, one by oversight. hunter biden was subpoenaed to sit for a closed door deposition with the has oversight committee. she defied that subpoena and showed up at the capitol -- she defied that subpoena and showed up at the capitol. he ready statement and left.

that is how that played out. now they are going to hold him in contempt of congress and there will likely be a vote early next week to hold him in contempt. that will likely pass. a lot of members are mad not to that he defied the subpoena but that he showed up at the capitol and kind of just railed about it. people see that is ego testicle. it -- egotistical. it made the man, mostly republicans. we will see how that played out. host: what does that do if he is held in contempt? guest: it will be referred to the justice department. the justice department will have to prosecute. will they be prosecuted? you see people held in contempt of congress for the january 6 committee. some have still not going to jail. there will still be more work in court. another thing is he is held in

contempt of congress. will divided justice department prosecute hunter biden? we do not know. hunter biden has been indicted and is facing multiple charges. i think he will be prosecuted, but the court process takes so long. by that time, he could very well -- strange thing. we do not know fully what is going to happen. but if it passes, -- what happens in doj and how long that takes. host: rhys gorman, reporter for the washington examiner. go to his website if you want to see his work. jerome, texas, democrats line. caller: [indiscernible]

host: let's hear from walter in south carolina. independent line. caller: good morning. my question is why are we sending additional aid to israel when hamas does not have an influence or tanks? i do not understand these additional resources. maybe you can have somebody explain this to me. host: we have had several segments take a look at this topic. i would refer you to our website, c-span.org, if you want to check out the events of israel and hamas. type it in the search box. you will see all the segments we have done on this topic. patsy in pennsylvania. democrats line. caller: how are you? thank you for taking my call. quick comment -- i just wanted

-- i am upset with the state of our country, immigration, our justice system. i wish democrats would have another candidate in the primary, because i will not vote for joe biden. i am 76 and he is not too far from me, but i feel that he is, the ages trouble for our country. i will probably be voting this year republican. i am a little worried about all the indictments against trump, so i am looking towards maybe ron desantis. host: as a democrat, why would you make that change? caller: like i said, the state of our country, it seems like we are going down a sinkhole with

immigration. host: coded you vote for four years ago? caller: i voted for trump. host: as a democrat? caller: yes. not during the primary. host: why is that? caller: because i am not happy with joe biden. host: ok. lonnie is next, lonnie in florida, democrats line. caller: good morning. one question and two observations -- trump took in to protect the country from terrorists. he did not do that on january 6. i am trying to figure out how is even eligible to run for office, given his history. i thought the constitution

protected us from people like that. number two, i cannot figure out how ron desantis is getting away with doing away with black history. i do not see how this is legal. i am frustrated. host: in georgia, republican line, roy. caller: i saw something interesting. he showed jim jordan making a constitutional challenge to the election. the whole january 6 thing was just to stop the congress from a constitutional challenge to the election. -- during the pandemic. -- a video showing where the cops instigated the riot.

they were shooting grenades and rubber bullets into a crowd of innocent people. the whole thing was because congress would not challenge the election. somebody from the washington post, nothing washington post. i know better than that, but the newspapers need to pick up on that. our country has done a disservice to all the lies going on and the destruction that has taken place. we have a president in office that is the legitimate and inquire for estates changed the voting rules during the election. host: one of the names to come out of january 6 was ray atkinson. politico saying this writer was -- rioter was falsely

accused in january 6 and his sentencing is more lenient than requested. it tells the saga that a former oath keepers from arizona who was one of the first to reach the barricades and far right conspiracy theories. he is received death threats. false claims that he is an undercover agent who helped incite the capitol riot. trump on tuesday sat in the same courthouse listening to arguments on his own criminal case. this is not an easy sentencing said james of the u.s. district court in washington. we can best to law enforcement conspiracy theory. let's hear from ted in new hampshire, independent line. caller: two points. one is in ecuador, there was a

television station that was attacked by a terrorist group. it seems to me that that country is so corrupt that people are going to leave it, come through honduras and mexico and there. why can't we go there and help them solve that problem so people do not have to run from their homes and land? my second point was desantis, and one of his early ads, he mentions that drug dealers and criminals are coming across. is he a governor or a hitman? host: bob in michigan, independent line. caller: one the things i think about this congressional hearing for ellie under mayorkas -- l.a. hydro mayorkas is in the past,

presidents at the two-year level used to assess their cabinet secretaries. it just does it -- does not seem to be done this time around. i think president biden has made a big mistake by not assessing his cabinet secretaries performance. work is clearly competent -- mayorkas is clearly incompetent. this has become a real issue for the democrats. it did not have to be. not everybody is capable of doing a job the size of a homeland security secretary. alejandro mayorkas is clearly incompetent, but nobody is bringing these guys in the two year level assessing their ability to do the job. mayorkas is not qualified, never was.

host: bruce in minnesota, democrats line. caller: all this talk about keeping count off the ballot, i have never heard anyone talk about abraham lincoln was kept off the ballot in seven states. need is some point you can address that. on the personal note, i do not know how you guys keep a straight face after some of these phone calls, but you do a good job keeping up. thank you very much. host: one of the issues at the defense department yesterday was a conversation with pat writer talking about the health status of lloyd austin following complications of a prostate cancer procedure. here is a back-and-forth about the transparency of that situation. >> the administration has touted

being the most transparent, as well as this department. how could something like this happen? help might it affect public trust in the secretary and the department? >> as i highlighted, we will go back and look at what we could have done better, to include, within my own organization on the public affairs side and making sure we are acknowledging and asking the hard questions about ensuring that the public has a timeline, not only the public congress and the news media has an accurate timeline of the secretary status. nothing is more important to us than the trust of the public. trust has to be earned. we will work hard to make sure we are earning that trust. let me get a few folks. james? >> i understand that the

secretary has responsibility for all of this. i understand the pentagon is doing a review and is committed to transparency, particularly in their meetings with the pentagon press association. if you read through any army field manual, there will be a package that says we must not lead without being able to communicate clearly. i am wondering if this is a leadership failure versus shortcomings in transparency. it is actually a leadership failure by the institution or him personally? >> a couple of things, thanks for the question. first, the secretary in his statement on saturday has accepted responsibility for the transparency issues associated with that. from a leadership standpoint, he has stepped up and said, yes, i

take responsibility. this review will help us better understand, not only from a procedures standpoint, but also where and how we could do better. part of leadership is understanding where you could do better and where there are shortfalls in owning those. we will do better, not only because it is the right thing to do, but also because it is vitally important as we carry out our mission. host: carol, west virginia, independent line. caller: i am frustrated with both parties. you get your guest to was on there, i -- yes, trump passed a lead of bills and raised the debt, but who is over the

pursestrings? the democrats. there was ominous bill after ominous bill. then we had the shutdown, which trump was responsible for, to hear everybody tell it. please do not come me off, but it was the democrats that would not negotiate anything. it was their way or the highway. just like republicans are now, it is like biden is going to get blamed, but it is really the people in congress and has the pursestrings. they are the ones that sets the bills. if they do not negotiate, it is the president. president trump had covid when he was advised to shut the country down by those people that were around him. host: milton in san antonio,

texas, democrats line. caller: all have two questions -- i have two questions i wish someone would invest. one, how does donald trump stay out of jail having never paid income taxes? number two, why do we not talk to the president of mexico and try to come up with an agreement to stop people from coming over? that is the two questions i have. if you could get a motive new stations or newspapers to address those two questions, i would appreciate it. thank you. host: republican line, gary, maryland. caller: thank you for taking my

call. host: go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. host: we will go to donald in raleigh, north carolina, independent line. caller: just wanted to say i am a black american. by no means am i left behind. i think god for the goodwill of so many people, black, white, hispanic and whatever. it is by the goodwill of those good americans that america will survive. this is what you hear. leadership, the border, the deficit, and inflation, but they

say that until a republican gets in office. when a republican gets in office, it is no longer the deficit or the border, no longer inflation. this is what i want to say. as a 60-year-old lock american, i have -- black american, i have been told this all my life. you do not see which eyes are looking at. that blood on the ground is not yours, even though you are the one bleeding. a bunch of lies. of all of these people, allegedly church people, think about it. they say, are you a liar? you say yes and you are going to hell. you admitted to being a liar. host: anchorage, alaska, independent line.

caller: about fighting, is this the same biting that is -- about biden, is this the same biden that was vice president under obama? because of him, i became proud to be an american. i went from islamic extremist to proud to be an american and my first time betting -- voting. host: jim, we parked, florida, republican line. -- winter park, florida, republican mike caller: first, mayorkas being impeached. you have shown a number of times the hearings between the house, where jim jordan had questions of your case, -- of light your kiss, and a few weeks later, in

the senate, the same question. alejandro mayorkas said i do not have that number but i will get it back to you. he is showing that he is just lying. the other thing is the representative that you had on from new york, a democrat. he decided that wen jiabao asked him a question, he -- that when people asked him a question, he cap danced around the question and he did not intend. then you had ken cuccinelli. not answer his it. people do not like to hear the truth, but they need to hear the truth. that is the problem in this country. people are listening to people who lie to them and not to

people who tell the truth. host: that is jim in florida. ruth, tennessee, democrats line. caller: i want to tell your listeners on saturday on c-span3, there was an interesting interview with charles foster, who has worked at -- he is from texas, has worked at the border through five different presidents. worked with five different presidents. he is an attorney who has watched the border andso much and answered all the questions about the border that i ever had. i would recommend that the people who watch this program, go to your website and look up

the interview with charles foster. thank you very much. host: tester faster served as an advisor to george w. bush's administration. he was on our program last saturday talking about immigration issues. if you go to our website, type in charles foster. that will give you the interview when it comes to issues of immigration. let's hear from larry, republican line company with carolina -- republican line, north carolina. caller: -- even people who voted for him were not there. they sit in jail for years. they said they helped with the

investigation that he had to be in on it. he got a sentence of six months. the rest got 20 to 30. that shows you the doj has weaponized it politically. the chief justice, residents, and automatic federal offense. no arrests were made. anyway you look at it. host: that is larry in north carolina on this open forum. we will pause recently, only to highlight the fact that in iowa tonight, two candidates wanting the republican nomination will face off, ron desantis and nikki

haley, in that final debate before the iowa caucuses. joining us is eugene scott of axios, senior political reporter. things for giving us your time. how did the campaigns characterized with is at stake for either of the candidates tonight? guest: it depends on which candidate you scoop with, but both are aware that this could be a make or break moment. as much as nikki haley is banking on new hampshire, she certainly wants a strong showing in iowa. these individuals will be voting in a general election if it is for that nominee. she wants to convince them that she can uphold conservative values and policies that are popular with iowa caucus motors. ron desantis has been trying to

convince republicans that he is the most consistently conservative person running for the nomination. he is hoping to put dent in the former president's support. host: as far as the nature of the debate, sometimes it deals with politics and sometimes with direct attacks on the candidates themselves. which of either of those are you expecting to see tonight? guest: in the last seven years, policy has been less of a focus as politics. what i expect to see quite a bit of his knees candidates trying to make the argument that their opponents are not equipped to do the job. there will be some discussion of policy issues could make the case that there opponents are not as aligned with these voters and the individual making the argument is trying to convince people of regarding themselves.

let politics, primarily, i believe, will be much of the focus tonight. host: do you beat that donald trump will be part of the dialogue? guest: he always is, most popular republican in the country right now with low approval rates outside the party. you cannot get away from him in this contest. he is the elephant in the room. i expect to hear point a bit about him tonight. host: he is providing is on counter program to the debate. what do we expect from him? guest: it will be an opportunity for him to remind the base why he thinks his competitors are not the best people to move the america first vision forward. the top has been vocal. he wants to lead from a place of retribution if he can return to the white house. nobody else running for the gop

nomination is leading without as their primary objective for voters who believes that liberals and individuals outside the gop need to be annexed or handled more severely than they have been, too try to remind him he is the best person who can do it. host: he is expected on fox news tonight. guest: fox news is where so many of these voters are. we know from surveys that many at fox news, the most faithful viewers, do not consume much other media. you cannot really get her on fox news if you want to be the republican nominee, no matter how frustrated you are with individual's analogies -- individual personalities. host: we are only two candidates on the stage but others are running.

at what stage do we see people starting to wrong not -- drop out, perhaps vivek ramaswamy? guest: this is a campaign that has primarily been self funded. how much of his own money does he want to keep bending? -- keep spending? i believe last night he was not even attending some gatherings and iowa. an argument could be made it was related to the weather, but also it is expensive to make your case before voters. when he decides that this is no longer worth the significant investment, i expect him to drop out. same thing for chris christie, whose campaign is not self-funded but funded by a billionaire no longer on the trump train who is wanting to put forward another worldview, but at some point, these individuals will look at their pockets and at the polling and

decide that this is no longer worth their investment. host: eugene scott reports for axios. thanks for your time. mary is next, independent line, georgia. caller: can you hear me? host: yep. caller: [indiscernible] for decades, i have tried to get one government official to sit and talk to me and tell me what is going on. not one person has ever done

that. there have been court cases in my name. even against the department of human resources. my husband's family, my husband abused me for over 30 years. i asked them for help when i found that my husband -- taken my kids with me and been safe. [indiscernible] they do what they want. -- from other countries that all have been host: laura, baltimore,

independent line. caller: thank you to c-span and c-span radio. i would like to speak about the remittances that a lot of folks are sending back to their countries of origin. pew research has numbers on this. why doesn't our government put a surcharge on that money when they send it out of the country? they are staggering sums when you look at the numbers. maybe we could recoup some of these social services that are going out. all of the folks that have temporary protected status are immediately eligible for the benefits of the social safety net in our country but it was not designed for that. it was designed for american that are having trouble, not the entire world.

the numbers do not add up. mayorkas needs to get another job. sorry to say that. he seems like a nice guy but he is not suited for that job. he waited this looks, even to the world, you not to mention how dissatisfied and in misery did american citizen -- immiscerated american citizens are. it is a betrayal. host: something else that took place on the senate side yesterday concerning new jersey senator robert menendez -- reports that he took to the senate floor, denied charges that he accepted bribes, and warned colleagues that they could be next. here is a portion of that each for yesterday. sen menendez: i come to the floor to raise -- respond to act as a -- accusations raised by

the district attorney of new york. this is the second indictment brought forth by the government. it should be noted that all of the information presented in the superseding indictments were fully available to the government since the beginning of this process. for that, at least a year prior to the bringing of this indictment, which therefore begs the question, why did the government not proceed with all of these accusations from the beginning? the answer is clear to me. by filing three indictments, one in 71, second in october and a third one last week, it allowed the government to keep the sensational story in the press. it poisons the jury pool and seeks to convict me in the court of public opinion.considering

, the government tactics are not just me that each of you, the political establishment, and the electorate of new jersey. the sensationalized allegations are now creating a call from my resignation, despite my innocence, and before a single piece of evidence has been introduced in a work of law. the united states attorney's office is engaged not in a prosecution but a persecution. they seek a victory, not justice. host: you can see more on our website or our app. amelia, massachusetts, independent line. caller: i do not understand why anybody would vote for donald trump in 2024. everything that has come to light, all the lies he has told. it just came out that he took

close to $8 million from foreign countries. i do not know why that is not infuriate everybody. there were crack or republican, it does not matter. it a do wrong -- democrat or republican, it does not matter. if they do wrong, we need to call them out. it is disturbing that they come out right after january 6 and safe trump was wrong, i am done and then two days later, they say, well, maybe not. they think she was wrong, thought he led an insurrection, but they are still willing to vote for him. i am nervous for my country and my fellow americans. it is disturbing how many lies and things he has done against the american people, against us and people are still willing to vote for him. host: that is amelia in

massachusetts. politico and others reporting that john barrasso of wyoming is formerly -- formally endorsing president trump. jack, ohio, republican line. caller: hello. i can tell you what i think the reason donald trump did not get a lot done was because you have to go back to day 1 when he first got elected. the first words out of the democrats mounds were we need to get this guy out of office. we need to find a way to bank impeach him. he has been defending himself from day one and to this day. thank you. host: lynn, maryland, democrats

line. less than a minute. caller: thank you, pedro. i would like to remind everybody about saturday, 1:00 p.m., the 13th, the march for gaza. march4gaza.org at the national mall. i would like to thank senators van holland and markey. pray for the people of gaza and pray for president biden to stop supplying weapons to the israelis to kill these are people. thank you. host: lynn in silver spring, maryland. 10:00, hearing alejandra mayorkas over matters of immigration. you can see that play out on c-span3, c-span now, and also at c-span.org. don't forget also starting this