previous question on the resolution. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. mr. mcgovern: mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. mr. mcgovern: ski for the yeas and nays, please -- i ask for the yeas and nays, please. the speaker pro tempore: the yeas and nays are requested. all those in favor of taking this vote by the yeas and nays will rise and remain standing until counted. a sufficient number having arisen, the yeas and nays are ordered. pursuant to clause 8 of rule 20, further proceedings on this question are postponed. pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the chair declares the house in recess subject to the

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providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. hannah: our next guest is part of never back down and he served in the trump administration as the acting deputy homeland deputy. thanks for giving us your time. guest: my pleasure. hannah: how do you explain you worked for the former president but are not endorsing him this time around? guest: it's a question i get a lot. i was acting deputy at the department of homeland security and work closely with president trump. i don't dislike him. i'm not in the anti-trump category. but i saw how much more effective we could have been with better leadership and better decisionmaking, more follow through and more determination, frankly. i believe ron desantis has those

straits and demonstrated them as governor of florida and done so very effectively in some of the most difficult circumstances governors have faced certainly in our lifetimes and has shined effectively in a way i believe will provide great national leadership. i'll give you one example. while we worry about the national debt driving inflation and getting out of control. we're losing control of our government because of the budget deficits. direction, which is te opposite of the federal government. and that is one of those areas in which president trump who increase the debt by more than any other president does not look good in the scorecard, if you will. for people like me who care about long-term fiscal sustainability and what we are passing to our children, that is a very important issue. it is only one. we will talk about immigration. i believe that governor desantis

would be more effective on immigration then president trump was and then biden is. he has opened the door and implemented an open border policy. so i do get asked, having worked with the president why am i not supporting him? part of it is my experience working with him has led me to look for a better option. i believe that ron desantis is a better option. i hope the people of iowa this coming monday agree as a trudge through the snow to vote in their caucuses. and, we will leave the world of polling on monday and get to the world of voting, which is what really counts. in sports, that is why they play the games. we will find out how that operates. the subject we are talking about today, immigration. there are several major differences between what a president desantis would do versus what a president trump was willing to do. that would secure the border, and actually get us -- i was

listening to a good chunk of the last show and people were listening -- were interested in why won't congress address the problem? i think if you secure the border you have prepared the a political environment to move forward with actual immigration reform. i do not think anybody doubts that we need that. we all have different ideas of what that might look like. it will not happen until the border is secure and under joe biden we have gotten the opposite, literally throwing the doors open and intentionally implementing an open border policy. it has brought 10 million people illegally into the country. host: i do want to ask about immigration but i want to talk about governor desantis for a second. you talked about scorecards. what does the campaign need to see as far as results and determine how much further he needs to go? guest: well the governor decides that himself.

i work with the super pac. for your viewers that means i do not work with the campaign. i support the governor's efforts, for instance. we have just knocked on our 3 millionth door talking to individual voters, almost one million in iowa, but other early states as well. we have run our own ads and run a communications effort to encourage people to support governor desantis but i do not get to talk to the campaign directly. my own opinion is that he has to perform above expectations and show that he can compete with president trump in iowa. that is the key, showing competitiveness with president trump. the best way to do that is to come in first place. but it is close and they are from first to second and there is a big distance with third place than when -- then we will know it is a one-on-one race between desantis and trump.

and i think that would change the dynamics through the rest of the contest. meaning that in the other states, new hampshire, nevada and so forth on down. super tuesday is the big one, march 5. my home state of virginia votes with a good 15 states, i want to say will vote that day. and a bunch the weekend before. the next two months will go a long way to determining if not completely determining who the republican nominee will be to face joe biden in the fall. and i think that america is ready for the change. and i hope that it will be ron desantis. because there is no question based on his record, 10 years of consistent performance and great leadership as governor that he is the best prepared to be the president of the united states come january, 2025. host: we will continue on with our conversation with ken cuccinelli. we plan to go into open forum

after 9:00. if you want to ask about not only governor desantis' campaign or issues of immigration, 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. you can text us at 202-748-8003. mr. cuccinelli, you talked about the various people in the context. for your own personal concerns, what your thoughts about how dickey factors into governor desantis' chances? guest: she factors in and there are three buckets of knopp -- voters, people who will vote for president no matter what, people who will vote against president trump no matter what i will come back to that. and then there are people like me who like the policies that we saw implemented under president trump and do not have a personal problem with the president. but, believe that it is time to

move onto to better leadership. she cannot compete with that category of voters. it is about separate thirds and the republican nominating electorate. she has no poll with folks -- pull with folks who want to see strong border security and with folks who have been fiscally conservative. she has a track record of being expansive in the foreign policy area. that is not a popular position among republican voters these days. i do not see a way for her to compete with the president and that middle bucket. back to the anti-trump bucket, those folks will vote for whomever they believe will be president trump. and that is why it is important for governor desantis to be able to demonstrate that he can compete and defeat president trump in all -- in iowa, and it

will be obvious that if nikki haley is not in the race that ron desantis would win the votes and be president trump. nikki haley does not have that path. you know, the sooner that this is down to a one-on-one race the more likely it is that governor desantis will collect enough delegates to be president trump on the first ballot when the national convention rolls around in july. host: let us take a call from earl from indiana. line from republicans. you are on with ken cuccinelli, founder of never back down and also served in the trump administration. go ahead. caller: thank you for letting me call. mr. cuccinelli, i tell you, i am so disgusted with the republicans. why they cannot see that mr. trump has been picked on even before he was president.

he has done a good job and right now they are trying to get people not to vote. we want democracy and honesty, and trump has not lied. he did everything he said he would do and you guys would like him if you get something done. half of you cannot even pronounce their names. host: that is earl in indiana. guest: a couple of things. first on president trump, he did not do everything he said he would do. and i will use examples. he said that he would prosecute hillary clinton for breaking the law which he did. but within days of the election she she said she is alike -- a nice lady and we do not want to do that. and then to complain that people are being selectively prosecuted by the people he hired, for instance christopher wray who just added to the deep state and

let it grow and metastasize, that is a failure of what he said he was going to do. he said he would build a wall, he did not finish it. he did not really begin building until his fourth year and had a republican congress for the first two years. he was not as tough as he could have been on the border. he was the toughest we have had any while. but both he and joe biden sent the military to the border for example. and it was for show. they did not do anything. in the trump administration they helped process people and backed up border patrol. they did not stop a single person from invading. he did not do what he said he would do. he did not go after the cartels or balance the budget which he promised to do and instead he gave us more debt than any other president in history. these are reasons that i support ron desantis because the president failed to do these very important things that he did promise to do.

i agree with you that the border needs to be closed. one difference between governor desantis and what president trump was willing to do is that governor desantis has said that he is willing to send the military to the border to close the border between the legal ports of entry so that everybody coming into this country has to come through legal ports of entry. they cannot cross illegally. i do immigration think tank work for the center for renewing america. we will put a paper out speaking to the military as a tool to close the border. it is perfectly legal -- legal and constitutional for the president to do it. there is some controversy, enough that president trump afraid to do it. and governor desantis -- desantis is prepared to do it. i appreciate your vehemence. i do think that president trump did some good things, but he did not do the things that he promised to do.

if he did i would be supporting him for election again. but i believe we can do better with governor desantis and i believe that the american people will trust him more to get the task done while balancing the budding -- the budget and leading our country. i look forward to the votes being cast and i hope that is the way it ends up. but, as i say, that is why they play the game and we will see what voters have to say. host: andrew. new york. democrats line. caller: thank you and good morning. thank you for taking my call. question. everyone talks about having a secure border but no one talks about what that means. i presume we are talking about a brick and mortar wall 32 million miles -- 32 miles across the border -- host: i am sorry about that we are going to have to ask you to watch the language. as far as the approach which he

was -- was referencing. if you wanted to elaborate on that. guest: yes. he asked what do we mean by a secure border. the law actually defines it. a secure border is knowing everyone who is crossing. will we ever get to 100%? probably not. but we have not made a serious effort to get close. and i do not think that is going to happen. i agree that we will not see 2000 miles of wall built from the pacific to the gulf of mexico. that alone does not solve the problem. you need the manpower behind that border with the political will to stop people from entering and to return those who come in illegally. we do not have that. we did not have that under president trump and we would have that under president desantis. i do believe that the most cost-effective way to close the border and to reach that level

of security is to use the military, to deploy it from texas to california in those areas where we know that the cartels are trafficking people across and let us not forget, it is the cartels that drive the traffic. they steer the traffic and they make money off of it. the most evil and vicious people in the western hemisphere have monetize the open borders policy to make lands of dollars, kill thousands of people a year across this hemisphere and destabilize governments to the south. that is something that we are contributing to with this open border policy. i believe going the other direction of securing the border helps defeat and the fund -- defund the cartels and it would help to go after them. president biden and president trump did not do that. presidents desantis has promised that he would do that.

host: how much of the strategy is working with other countries to slow the levels of migration? guest: that is a critical elements that he has spoken to. there have been periods of time and in the trump administration where we had cooperation from mexico, honduras, wada model and -- guatemala, and el salvador. it can be rough to get that kind of cooperation with a president in mexico who is frankly facilitating the illegal immigration across his country and into ours. but when they cooperate to help slow it down, it makes an enormous difference. if mexico knew that no one would be able to freely traverse mexico and walk into the united states, otherwise it would be stuck in the northern part of mexico you would find mexico would start guarding its southern border more tightly. it has a very small southern

border relative to the u.s.-mexico border. that border has its own challenges. it is forested just by way of example. but it is easier to cover that small amount of territory then it is the nearly 2000 miles between the united states and mexico. host: dave in south carolina. independent line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. mr. cuccinelli, and your own words for everyone listening and watching, could you please define woke. guest: woke? caller: woke. guest: i would define woke as describing a cultural push towards policies like dei, diversity and equality as they are described but as a workout they tend up -- they tend to do

reverse discrimination against white people, asian discrimination at harvard and in the local high school here where i live, the governor's school. and it is prioritizing the political correctness that goes along with it over profits for companies as we have seen with disney and budweiser and so forth, or forcing political conformity like we see at university is in most of the country. i would note that this is something that governor desantis has effectively dealt with in florida including in higher education, which in my view as a conservative is the most difficult institution, the most determinedly left-wing, communist institution in the united states. and i have often wondered whether it could be fixed. i believe that governor desantis

has shown in florida that it can be fixed and you can get away from the indoctrination that goes with wokeness and get back to education with a free exchange of all ideas including ideas that people might not like, which is the best way to refute them which is to bring them out in the open and have those discussions. and so, i would define woke that way. it is easier to define in particular segments whether it is business, education, and so forth. it is a major problem that goes hand-in-hand with political correctness and a push in that direction. which has been so destructive in this country. destructive for this country. host: on capitol hill, there will be an effort to start the impeachment of alejandro mayorkas over immigration. what do you think of that effort? guest: he was hired to implement an open border policy that was

intentional on the part of joe biden. we have now passed over 10 million people who have crossed that border illegally in the joe biden administration, which is what mayorkas is responsible for. i think that part of the problem with mayorkas is he lies about what he is doing under oath to congress, impeachable. also, there is the destructiveness of t polics he is pursuing. we see this on a bipartisan basis. you see the democratic governor of arizona complaining bitterly about these policies to the biden administration. we see sanctuary city mayors all over the country who, when illegals are bussed from the border area to their cities, scream out for what is only a day or two worth of illegal border crossings. those are democrats, not

republicans. that is a policy being headed by secretary mayorkas. the combination about him lying about the policies he is implementing, as well as the damage of the policies he is implementing, i think is going to lead to an impeachment that will come out of the committee. i hope it will not be a party-line vote. if it is, that means no conviction in the senate, but i believe there are a lot of democrats who are unhappy with the policies of this straight and how destructive -- this administration and how destructive they are in their communities. all of the sentinel virtually -- fentanyl virtually is coming across the southern border, manufactured by cartels with materials obtained from china. the biden administration knows this, sec. mayorkas knows this and does little to impede those

destructive elements coming across the border, bank say nothing of terrorists and criminals. i think there is a place for impeachment. it is more appropriate to impeach secretary mayorkas then president biden but president biden has his own issues. it appears he made a good bit of money while he was vice president, altering policies of the united states. that might be more appropriate for the president, but given the border situation and sec. mayorkas lying about it, i think this impeachment is an appropriate response. it is one of the few responses that congress has. given their limited number of choices, they are proceeding with one that is available. host: john, arizona, independent line. caller: i think that c-span does

great. first, you have a person from the left, and now a person from the right. i will say that the man that you are following -- i like results. he has shown that he can do results pertaining to florida and on the circumstances down there. i wish he would discuss more the positive things that your candidate has done. what do you think of having nikki haley as vice president? guest: i appreciate the question. we got a question about wokeness earlier from south carolina. this is one of those areas where governor desantis has been a leader. each of these states has enormous economic assets in the business realm.

governor desantis is leading a coalition of states against the esg agenda. this takes businesses away from making profits. while making profits may sound like a grubby undertaking, that is the point of businesses. it is why shareholders invest in them. with over half of americans owning shares in businesses as part of their retirement, it is critical that our businesses focus on growing our economy by performing better. the governor has pushed hard and not direction. at the same time, i already mentioned his efforts in higher education. he has successfully moved florida higher education away from indoctrination with the woke agenda and back to education. he has done the same thing in k-12 while removing the often disgusting elements that folks

in teachers unions and the woke left want to push on children, even in kindergarten, sexualized content that is inappropriate, letting boys play in gross sports -- girls sports with the transgender agenda that is dangerous. one of the boxing associations is now letting men who claim to be women to fight women. that is just not safe. it is not safe to have that situation in sports. the governor has fixed all of that in florida. has reduced the debt in florida by about 25%. florida now has the lowest per capita debt of any state in the country, something we need at the federal level. he has done that while lowering taxes. he has been able to do that because he is made florida so

attractive the more people are moving into florida than any other state. the old ronald reagan missive of people voting with their feet. he has also done when he can do to fight illegal immigration. he has been amongst the leaders in moving those coming into the country illegally to sanctuary cities to bring home to those cities the real impact illegal immigration can half. also, we talk about the southwest border. florida faces a sea-going illegal immigration from out of the caribbean. the closest country to the u.s. down there is the bahamas, 48 miles away. they often make fast runs with high-value, illegal immigrants, particularly from china, who may pay as much as he thousand dollars a person, higher than what you see being paid across the southern border, to go to

florida. the governor has -- he was one of the first to respond when the gaza terrorist attack on israel happened on october 7. our own government, while paying to fly illegal aliens from the southern border all over the united states, would not bring americans home from israel out of a war zone. the governor of florida brought floridians and others home, hundreds of them quickly, when it became apparent that joe biden and the federal administration would not act. last but not least, governor desantis has proven himself the single best first responder to natural disasters in american history. hurricane ian came ashore over lee county.

the track shifted in the last 72 hours. lee county is where my parents live. my father, an engineer, was impressed by the response from the governor who led an effort to rebuild bridges and causeways in 102 weeks to reconnect islands with the mainland of florida. that is an amazing accomplishment. it does not happen because the governor's absence fingers. it happens because he prepared before, made good decisions during, and executed follow-up superbly. there has never been a president or governor who has done as good a job. we saw it again a year ago this fall when another hurricane hit florida during the governor's reelection campaign. lots of people in the media, certainly charlie crist, were hoping the governor would fall

on his face. instead, he performed spectacularly, reserving life and property and doing it better than anybody. that is a role the president has to perform as well. host: i want to get dolores in from tennessee, democrats. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i am sick and tired of republicans --host: i think we are having a connection issue. let's try ulysses in south carolina, democrats line. caller: hello. i have two questions for your guest. he is calling -- host: go ahead and ask your

question. caller: i want to ask your guest about donald trump. why is he calling him president? president of what? guest: well, former presidents keep the title. people call the attorney general. i was the attorney general of virginia. the american people stood the on -- bestowed that on him in 2016. that is for life. caller: my second question -- on the border. all i see is a fence. host: we will leave it there. mr. cuccinelli? guest: wall versus fence? there are both on the border. there was more wall built during president trump's term, almost

all built in the last year, but it was not nearly what he had promised to do. there is also fencing at various points. there is no single, magical tool for barricading the border and funneling the flows through legal ports of entry. both are used, ideally where appropriate. you have more work to do on that front. need more wall that is hard to scale and penetrate. it needs to be defended by people committed to protecting -- protecting the united states, unlike the current president and secretary. and the men and women of the border patrol are hold -- held back from performing their mission and this making use of that wall. walls and fences are only tools. they do not solve the problem of illegal immigration.

no wall and no fence will work in the absence of manpower behind her alongside that barrier that is ready to protect america's border and people. the men and women of the border patrol are ready to protect us if they had an administration that would let them do it. instead, under the biden administration, we are opening the doors to cartels, criminals, terrorists, anyone who wants to can into the country. so far, over 10 million people have done exactly that. host: ken cuccinelli, with the organization never back down, representative ron desantis as he runs for the presidential nomination. thanks f >> the hses beginning legislative work in the second session of the 118th congress today. on the agenda, few bills focusing on cha. members also start debate on

three bills, includin a measure blocking waivers on most 2024 buy america requirements on eltric car chargers. off the floor, congress faces two governmenfuing deadlines to avert a shutdown. the firstary 19. the second, february 2. as aays, live coverage of the house when members return here on c-span. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it any time online at c. spafplt.org. videos of key hearings, debates, and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. this makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. >> c-span is your unfiltered

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