♪ rp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] host: it is saturday january

13th, 2023. a winter storm hits eye what head of the republican caucuses. republican hopefuls for canceling events online while encouraging supporters to brave the weather for the event. president biden is defending attacks on houthi rebels. the u.s. military hit more targets this morning. what is your top news story of the week? our republican line is 202-748-8000 --202-748-8001. democrats can reach us at 202-748-800052. independents at 202-748-8002. if you would like to text us, that number is 202-748-8003. on social media you can reach us on facebook orn x, @cspanwj. those attacks in yemen, there

were more on a separate site but referencing the friday attacks, here is the headline in the washington post. "u.s. strikes in yemen may lay into the hands tested houthis. president biden the strikes sent a clear message that theuld notn its personnel or commercial shipping in the red sea. in the new york times, they have a map of the area referenced. the red sea was a major shipping lane for global trade and here indicating where the u.s. hit 202-748-8003 late -- where the u.s. hit houthi-linked targets on friday. back to iowa and the upcoming caucus with the weather presenting greater challenges to the candidates on the campaign

trail. earlier this week there was a gop candidate debate and at that debate, nikki haley and ron desantis were asked to respond to former candidate chris christie's comments that former president donald trump had a lack of moral character. here is that exchange. [video clip] >> do you believe donald trump has the character to be present again? >> the next president needs to have more clarity. you need to understand it is taxpayer money, not euro money. you need to understand where you are dealing with dictators we always have to fight for democracy and humanprotecting a. when you look at donald trump, i thought he was the right president at the right time. i agree with his policies but his way is not my way. i don't have vendettas, i don't take things personally. for me, it is about no drama, the whining and getting results.

i don't think donald trump is the rit president to go forward. it is time for a new generation leader that will make america proud again. >> what is your response to chris christie? do you believe donald trump has the character to be present again? >> i am running because i am the guy to engineer a comeback for this country. he said he was going to pay -- build a wall and have america he said he was going to draint. the swamp. he said he was going to hold hillary accountable and he let her off the hook. he added to the debt. we need to deliver and get this stuff done. the difference to dish efforts between -- the difference between nikki haley and i, i debated gavin newsom and i thought he lied a lot. she may be more liberal than gavin newsom. as republicans, you need someone who will be in there and fight

for you. rznikki haley, anytime the going gets tough, anytime people come down, she caves. when you need someone to stand and fight for you, don't look for nikki haley. you want to be able to find her if you had a search warrant. >> i think adult with russia, china, iran every day. no one said i caves for america. i fight for america. this is not a time to have pettiness. i wish donald trump was on this stage. . he needs to be defending his record. he is not defending the fact that he allowed us to h $8 trillion in debt over four years that our kids are never going to forgive us for. he did not deal with china when it came to stealing intellectual property. the fact that they give us covid. they continue to put up chinese

police stations and threaten our military. make sure we were standing with our friends. what we need is a leader who is not looking at four years and eight years, looking at 20 years and 30 years. i want my kids to have a good future. host: we are looking for your top news story of the week. the u.s. led strikes in yemen as well as defense secretary austin's hospitalization. the campaign 2024 and the iowa caucusountdown is coming up on monday. the hearing on fmes january 6 pl immunity claim. hunter biden, the contempt of congress resolution that came up this week, as well as secretory mayorkas and the impmelet's stah barbara in austin, texas on our democratic line.

caller: i would like to talk about president biden's foreign policy and related to his speaking voice.he has a naturalt speaking voice and it is probably because of his stutter earlier in life. he reminds me of what theodore roosevelt said who was a republican at the time. he said his policy was to speak softly and carry a big stick. that is what biden does. if you recall, roosevelt was a member of the original republican pty far right gop with the original -- but the original. during the fight over integration in the 1960's, the party slipped and the old democrats switched over to a republican party.

host: what is your top story in the news this week? caller: what happened in yemen. speak softly and carry a big stick. foreign policy for foresight and intelligent -- and intelligence and decisive action when it is■a necessary. before a word starts, that is the policy teddy roosevelt was speaking about what he says i speak softly and carry a big stick. host: let's hear from john in sykesville, marand. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to make an analogy, is american football. it seems like democrats and

■urepublicans think they are on different teams, they are rivals, and we are not. we are all on the same team. we are not the ravens and the steelers, we are the offense and the defense. third parties are special teams that come in and change the game every so often. my message to everyone out there, we have to start thinking we are on the same team. these coaches are coaching like we are not. we as the players need to come together and do what is right. host: that you. let's -- thank you. let's hear from danny on the republican line. caller: good morning, nice to i am from yuma, arizona. nice to see you, happy new year. i am a border town.

not only do you guys, but -- when are you going to take what is happening down here seriously? we have a crisis on our hands and everyone is coming over our border. i pray i am wrong about this. we don't know who these people are crossing the border. this is like a recipe for disaster. something is going to happen here. joe the democrats do not care. they put their heads in the sand. the only people that come down here are republican coalitions and the white house press secretary calls it a political stunt which it is not. they are opening the eyes of what is going on. why don't you have fox news people, they have their drones that show what is going on?

quite a few have those people on? -- why don't you have those people on? a lot of your democratic caller< are misinformed about what is going on because they don't get the correct news. it is all on tape and our hospital stunt your are overrun. our resources are overrun. everything is overrun. the democrats are letting illegal aliens in. i have empathy for this people, especially the little children. they should not be p situation. it is a very dangerous trap that they are doing putting everybody's lives in danger and the democrats don't care. how about what is going up in chicago? there is a blizzard upnd they don't know what to do, the same in new york.

host: i want to follow up on what you're saying with the impeachment mayorkas -- alejana mayorkas. he toured the border and eagle pass, texas. week and defended s department's handling of the border. [video clip] >> some have accused dhs of not enforcing our nation's laws. this cannot be further from the truth. begun my career as a prosecutor, ultimately serving as the united states attorney, there is nothing i take more seriously than our responsibility to uphold the law. the men and women of dhs are working around the clock to do so. the individuals who have been returned to their countries of after the ending of title 42 in

may this year, through the end of the fiscal year, dhs removed or returned more noncitizens without a basis to remain in the united states than in any other five-month period in the last 10 years. in fact, the majority of all ts encountered at the southwest border throughout this administration have been removed, returned, or expelled. we are doing everything we can within a broken system to incentivize noncitizens to use lawful pathways to impose consequences on those who do not and to reduce irregular migration. we will continue to do everything we can and we will continue to enforce the law. but we need congress to make the

legislative changes and provide the funding that offer that officers so desperately need. host: hearing about everyone's top news stories, hearing from people on social media and text. mike from new york says, "the hard work repus are doing the price of milk and a cartonof of eggs. they are doing what they promised." "i have to have the speaker of■y the house gone by valentine's day." next up we have angela in maryland. "trump's lawyers arguing for immunity of all presidents and trump repeating it is the top story." michael thorton says, "the u.s.

bng led by the nose into a regional war that is going to come into direct confrontation with iran, something that israel has been wanting for decades. if that happens, there will be l terrorism." "we still have not passed a budget." letter from otis on our democratic line. caller: good morning. i was watching the debate the so-called democratic party. when i was listening to them, everything they had to complain about, they had some■ between palestine and israel. that was debatable like what we have in america. i just want to say, sometimes

u want to position so bad that you try to take a different approach and have a different opinion. did you agree with the chips act? yep. the transportation deal? yes. infrastructure? yes. :they all want to be president but they want to pretend we live in some utopia. you have to align yourself with people you don't agree with all the time to make this country run. that debate last night was for wannabes and i hope no one in

america believes they can make a republican congress do anything they want or a democrat congress. you cannot force a person to do nothing. when you come to drill in, pretending they are issues and they are not because you don't agree with one person, -- just because one thing goes wrong doesn't mean the whole world is now let's hear from connie in florida on our independent line. what is your top news story of the week? caller: marketplacecj yesterdayi heard the story between cpi and ppi come at the fact that the city is laying off people. the top story should always be the economy and more specifically what the criminals on wall street are allowed to do.

the city was given over $45 llion in relief under the relief program in 2009. who is making sure the 20,000 people being laid off over 2024 and 2020 five -- 2025 were not compensated out of the money the government gave that bank? i think is ridiculous what wall street is allowed to get away with in thisthe fact that our pn washington let them continue to do it. think about thousand visuals. you want to complain about how much your housing costs are, what about 20,000 people who are going to lose their jobs over the next 24 months? what are they going to do? it always causes disruption when there is layoff.

the fact that wall street billionaires continue to make hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses each year, what did they get paid at the end of december for their for 2023? are they getting paid to lay off 20,000 people? 20,000 people is a lot. let's give our viewers a bit more information about the story. he was an article in reuters. the city is to cut 20,000 jobs, post a $1.8 billion loss in what it a disappointing quarter. citigroup said it would cut 20,000 jobs marking disappoig with what charges. shares of the bank which is in the middle of a multiview effort to cut theucracy and increase profits and boost a

stock that has lagged peers, shares were up more than 1%. the fourth quarter was clearly disappointed. jenna fischer told analysts we know that 2024 is critical. the lender will reduce its global workforce of 239,000 or roughly 8% of staff through 2026. the city will no longer count 40,000 jobsn ists its mexican consumer unit and an initial public offering, eventually aiming to just having level of 180,000 employees. next up we have tyrone from new york on our democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to talk about the red sea, gaza debacle.

president is following down this rabbit hole. they're going to keep this work going because it is in their best intereswhen the smoke clea- people know benjamin is the reason a lot of this stuff is going on. he had knowledge of what was going on in gaza. the threats of people in that area on october 6. i am not going to say he allowed that to happen, but he could have done some things to prevent it to escalate. it took six hours to respond to the help the people needed in that area. that is a disregard for what was going on. now this stuff is going

red sea situation. it is a problem for people to get their products. they continue to let this stuff spiral out of control. what we need to do is pull of the countries together involved in this situation. we already know benjamin doesn't want this to stop. they are looking to get him out of there. s whole thing clears, they are going to get him out of there. we have to be able to stand up against this whole meat machine that is going to grind up all of the palestinians, israeli americans, and the same machine. people are just going to die. theiro die for something that we can definitely settle, even

slow down to a point. this is ridiculous. ho: i think we have got your point. tyrone referencing is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu. let's hear from david in south carolina on our independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think we have a number of chronic problems, including the border, the economy, trade, etc.. the biggest problem is what is going on in yemen and the houthis attacking independent cargo ships going through the red sea. it is my beliefym that this need to be addressed a long time ago.

biden allows $90 billion to go to iran that they are able to finance the terrorists around the world. with isis having been destroyed, that left a void so that iran could fill in that void and take over in a lot of areas. i'm not defending isis, they were about the worst terrorist group there was. but they were fighting against iran and filled a void. rate, i believe the head of the snake needs to be cut off. the way you do that is with economic approaches which would be to strangle iran's ability to get funds. that would be with oriole --

with oil and where biden has released funds that were tied up in the other banks around the world. the problem is the houthis are a terrorist group that has been controlled by iran. iran. we need to cut off their supplies. i don't know how to do it. i am not a military person. but it seems like we can do more to go after iran. host: thank y. let's go to a couple of more comments on social media. "the economy ihuing along at a good pace. the only iueacing consumers is corporate greed. thgoenabled that with their corrupt economic policies since the 1980's. everything goes to the rich and stays ther

we have to carry their weight on top of ours. bob in kingstown, ride island"the data released -- thee is the least productive of all time. it is our car viewed as soft, not biden, by our allies. it is congress and commerce alone that has the power to pass legislation to make real change." next up also on x, this is from laron. "chris christie's dpo speech, he slaughtered tmpnd his enablers. he definitely wasn't going exit quietly. it was practically an off-the-cuff master class." let's go back to your calls under top story of this week. jack is in ohio on the republican line. i hope the weather has not gotten too bad.

caller: i not too bad, we are ready. browns fans here. my top story■ is as a black man in this country, we would like to be called foundational black americans. black men in this country would like to be called foundational black americans and not african-americans. i would like to be addressed that way. what people say african-americans, they are not talking about me. we are foundational black americans. my other top story is i would like to see reparations over immigrations for black americans citizens. my. ■host: third thinkhost: -- host: the people who identify as

african-americans or the group you're as foundational black americans? caller: the dissidents of slaves. if we■( edify -- identify ourselves as african-americans, they mean people like elon musk. we need to separate ourselves. what eve"■jryone to check out marshall dixoneveryone check oul dixon. we would like to get rid of qualified immunity. stop there talking that the democrats for talking is not doing anything for us. we need reparations. we need to to like we are human beings. we are tired.

i have jumped off of the democratic plantation, i left in the middle of the night and got out of there. i got to the delight -- the daylight. like i said before, we want to be heard. as far as our black churches, they have turned me against black churches because they are bought and sold. they will not tell our black citizens what the truth is. wake up, black people in these churches. they are collecting money every sunday and not telling the truth. it is upsetting to me. host: i think we have the idea of what you are getting at. let's go to james in arlington, texas on our independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i am a longtime listener, first time caller. i would like to associate myself

with the guy fromi would also le considered a black american. the thing that piques my interest in most this year -- i mean this week is the trial by donald trump's lawyer. he got before the judge and said he could have him murdered his political opponent -- murder his political opponent and he cannot be prosecuted unless the house tried him and descendant convicted him. that seemed outrageous to me.

almost equal with that is the trial they're having at the hague where they are prosecuting israel for genocide. host: at the international criminal court, the humanitarian court on the genocide case. if y like to go back to what you are mentioning about the trouble immunity hearing. we have a tape of the exchange between the case. trump attorney john sour on that question of absolutefencg. [videoli >> can i explore the applications of at you are i derstand your position to be that a president is immune for

prosecution for any official act he takess president, even if that is taken for any unlawful or unconstitutiona process? >> if the president is impeached by the senate in a proceeding to reflect that this, that would t. >> it seems to me thathere are a lot of things tt might not go to the process because it is a cumbersome process that requires the action of a whole branch of government that has a lot of different people involved. in your view, could a president so pardons or military secrets -- crets. that is a criminal act, and the president would not be subject

to prosecutions? >> b cell of pardons is a great exame. there was an accusation of lling pardons -- and we voted not to prosecute presint clinton becausof concerns about whether or not a president offial act. >> your position is he cannot be prosecuted for that. >> as long as it is an officia act. private constitute,ou would be subjugated to that. >> could a psident order silting six to assassinate -- porter seal team six to assassin ril?rder seal team six to >> he would have to be -- >> there would be no riep -- no liability for that? >> in the plane language of the

clause psuppose what the founders were concerned about -- >> yes or no question. could a presint six to assassina political rival who was not impeached be subject to criminal prosecution? >> if he were impeached and convicted first. >> your answer is no. >> qualified es. there is a process fight -- there is a process o occur under our constitution which requires impeachment and conviction by the senate. host: back top source of the week, we will go to scott on our carefully led -- go to scott. caller: good morning. i did not catch your name at the beginning of the show. host: kimberly. caller: you are beautif.jon kyla half ago and the question of --

and the■) question was of congrs and how well they are taking care of things. i compared the state of congress to a high school cake party -- party were the heads of states and the house were feeling like kids that could not show up with a beer. the drug addicts and the dealers and the people who brought their own flask became the highlight of the party. i mentioned marjorie taylor greene. you got me. i had to laugh so hard when i saw hunter biden get up and walk out when she began to question him as if she was attempting to have a caucus sword fight with him. he left. he will see his time.

he will do what issary to be honorable now that he is clean. in that call that john fielded, i mentioned how if the republican party could just get him drunk enough and stoned enough, he might turn on his own father. my biggest issue this week was how you made me laugh so hard i almost. . host: speaking of hunter biden, there is news this week about a different case separate from his situation in congress. hunter biden was arraigned in federal court on nine tax related charges. this is a story in abc news that he entered a not guilty plea to night felony and misdemeanor tech stretches at his initial appearance in a california courtroom on thursday. that plea was entered by hunter biden himself during the

arraignment in downtown was angeles and his plea came to be after he made a surprise appearance at the capitol hill hearing on whether to hold him in contempt of congress. the younger biden appeared before a judge at the u.s. courthouse. he was arraigned on nine tech stretches accusing him of feeling to pay 1.4 many dollars in texas from 2016 to 2019 and the judge set a june 20 trial date. let's go to darius in new hampshire on our independent line. darius, forgive me if i mispronounce the name of your town. caller: i have been listing for a wle on presidential powers, if you had a right to murder someone. the democrats are saying nope,

there is rule ofi would like tot president obama assassinated an american citizen without a trial or rule of law against the constitution. if president trump has the same immunity as obama had, why isn't president being charged for murder? the democrats are going after president trump since day one and this is just an example. i was watching the chris matthews show and i said i am not voting for trump. chris matthews asked a questiony portion, would a woman have to go to jail? he refused to answer that. chris matthews hounded him. he said hypothetically if a woman broke the law she would

have to go to jail. the next day all you heard was that trump said women have to go to jail for abortion. if you ever look at all of the information coming out against him, it is all bull crap. me how one party will say that is unconstitutional, you can't dot when it is the other side. when it is their side, they say you can do that. i am an independent, i vote for both parties have been watching the democrats the last four to eight years, they are kind of going crazy. host: i think we have got your idea. let's go to a message via text progressive in fayetteville, north carolina who says his top news story of th week, "secta of defense's

hoe s admitted a week later." this is referencing defense secretary lloyd atin who has been facing criticism for not communicating the fact that he was ill at out of serceor some time. we have some tape from brigadier general pat wrir earlier this week with reporters acknowledging some of those communication failures. [video clip] you are talking about transparency, again, how could something like this happen and how are you concerned this might affect the public's trust in the secretary and the department? >> as i to go back and look at what we could have done better to include within my organization on the public affairs aside and making sure we are acknowledging and asking those hard questions about ensuring the public commerce and

news media have a timely and accurate understanding of the secretary's status. as inhabited, there is not -- as i have at it nothing more important than the trust of the american public. we are going to work hard everyday to make sure we are earning their trust, but more portly deserving that trust. let's make it if you folks. -- let me get a few folks. >> i understand that the secretary has accepted responsibility for all of this. i understand the pentagon is doing a review and the pentagon is committed to transparency. if you read any army field manual, there will be a on leadership that says vendors cannot lead without being able to communicate clearly. i am wondering if the secretary views this as a leadership failure versus just shortcomings in transparency, that is looked at as a leadership fai

>> thanks for the question. the secretary in his statement on saturday has accepted responsibility for the transparency issues. from a leadership standpoint, he stepped up and said i take responsibility for this. this review will help us better understand not only from a process and procedure standpoint, but also where we could have done better and how we can do better moving forward. part of leadership is understanding where you can do better and where there are shortfalls and owning those. we are going to on those and do better. not only because it is the right thing to do, because it is vitally important as we carry out our mission.

host: another top story we received ktucky, "top story is the genocide in gaza and should stay the top story until it stops." on friday, israel defended itself of?e■" allegations of genocide. here is a story about that from the associated press saying accused of committing genocide and transcendence, israel admitted that its war in gaza was eligibility -- was illegitimate -- was a legitimate defense of his people and hamas is guilty of genocide. they said it is one of the biggest cases to come in front of an international course, reflected a world turned upside down. israeli leaders defend their air and ground offensive in gaza as

a legitimate response to hamas's attack when militants stormed through israeli communities killing some 1200 people and taking around 250 hostage. israeli's advisor said the country is fighting a war it did not stop and did not want. there can hardly be a starch -- a charge more relevant than the allegation against israel of genocide. he added the notable suffering of citizens in what was not enough to level that charge. let's go to michael in new york on our republican line. caller: mr. christie's message.

he has got a very strong message. he really see mr. trump become president. i agree with that to a point. i am going to switch parties after this. i am noticing a shift in our party and it is being split up and divided. we are basically fighting amongstlet's not lose sight of s case going on with mr. trump. he has like 91 indictments against him and he claims he is immune from any of them. the pledge ofnce is something mr. trump took an oath with. it says justice for all. that meets all of■j us -- that

means all of us. if you are saying that, you took that oath and now you have to face that music. i am a republican. i will be switching to the democratic party because they make more sense. they're making more common sense on these issues, even mr. christie and he is a very intelligent man. you look at his career as a prosecuting attorney, he prosecuted donald trump's father for corruption. the man is a straight shooter. from what i am seeing in the republican party, we are being divided. we need to put somebody up there on the republican side that will help us out. i call on john kasich, he was a favorite. host: i want to follow up on what you mentioned about the former president's other cases. this past week, trump made closing arguments -- his team --

in the final day of his fraud trial. . the story from cbs news. "disregarding the judge's restrictions, donald trump disregarded restrictions by the judge overseeing his fraud trial and address the court during closing arguments on friday -- on thursday, preaching against the state attorney general and the judge for several minutes. one day before, judge arthur anger on told trump's attorneys he would only be allowed to speak iffy limited his comments to relative material facts that are in evidence and relevant. his legal team did not agree to those conditions. trump's attorney raised the issue again in court and the judge asked if he would abide by them it's -- abide by the limits. trump became -- begin speaking

and the judge allowed him to continue speaking." john is in tuscaloosa on a democratic line. what is your top news story of the week? caller: my top story of the week is about the genocide taking place in gaza. in 1948, there was genocide against the jewish people. 50 or 60 years later, they were prosecuting those germans who had committed genocide against the jewish people. netanyahu and his cabinet and his military should be brought to justice for the same thing the germans were brought to

justice for and criminally charged and executed for what they are doing. i watched the world court, what south africa brought against israel, charges of genocide. the constitution, 14th amendment, section three, everybody reads that but they leave out the last sentence. the last sentence, congress make by two thirds full of each house remove -- the supreme court has nothing to do with this section. that is to be handled by congress. if congress don't remove that disability, then the supreme court cannot remove it. those are my two comments. host:.

. thank you -- thank you. next up is gilbert in alabama. what is your top story of the week? caller: thank you to c-span. my number one story is weather conditions in this country with this polar vortex. they have supposedly taken up a case on the supreme court on the inhumane treatment of homeless people sleeping in sub -- in public places. imagine how many people would be displaced by these current weather conditions? you think about all the storms antitrafficking, -- antitrafficking in storms -- and traffic in these storms. i am really enjoying the comments coming from the previous caller about the

current condition in the hague and the ways of africa presented that case -- the way south africa presented that case. they say the same genocide that had taken place on the jews, they are doing the same thing to the palestinians. that is a good point. host: gilbert was making reference to the supreme court and the upcoming case they have agreed to hear on whether cities can punish homeless people for sleeping on public land. here is some coverage of that in nbc. "any appeals court issued a been on public -- is a violation of the constitution's eighth amendment against cruel and unusual punishment. that is the appeal being heard at the court. the supreme court on friday agreed to hear a case that

considers whether municipal orders that bar homeless people from camping on public property violate constitutional protections against cruel and unusual punishment. the justices will review an appeal court ruling which ordered that -- are prohibited under the constitution's eighth amendment. among those come asking the supreme court to overturn the appeals court officials in los angeles, san francisco, phoenix, and other cities. the decision only applies in situations in which homes people are engaging in conduct necessary to protect themselves when there is no shelter in place which is what the court originally ruled." let's hear from david in virginia beach, virginia on the republican line. caller: for me the top story was the immunity case where the

judge gave them a hypothetical. in my opinion, she was baking them when she asked, could trump murder his political rival and his response was perhaps or maybe. what better response have been, wouldn't only a leftist congress not impeach a president for murderi a political rivalng? he should have answers that question with a question. it is a ridiculous hypothetical and it shows that the judge is biased. host: in that exchange, the lawyer for former president donald trump did mention something to that effect. the judge emphasized it was a

yes or no question what he did try to turn that question around. i want to playormer president trump speaking to reporters after the appeals hearing. [video clip] esther trump -- >> they consider two major points -- conceded two major points. they were right in doing it. i don't think they had a choice. i think we are doing very well. i think it is unfair when a political opponent is prosecuted by the doj, by biden's doj. they are losing in every poll. they are losing in almost every demographic. numbers came out today that are very mind-boggling if you happen to be joe biden.

if that is the way it goes, it will be bedlam in the country. it will be a very bad precedent. it is a very bad thing -- sad thing that happened with this whole situation. when they talk about threat to democracy, that is your real threat to democracy. i feel as a president, u if yo'e lost on immunity and i did nothing wrong, i am working for the country. host: patrick is in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. goodcaller: it is stunning thate american people are not paying attention about what is going on -- what is taking place in gaza. the new york times reported that the israeli government received a meticulously crafted design

that the hamas government was going to attack and they gave incredible details on that. what the new york times didn't say is where did this information come from. did it come from -- we deserve answers on where they got this information. if it came from the cia which i can guarantee you it's did, the obvious -- i guarantee it did, the obvious follow-up question is did you won the israeli government -- warn the israeli government? egypt warned israel inserted the palestinian authority. we know for the guitar is that israelis acted as couriers with money going in to hamas which

sounds meticulously like a set up. on top of that, we know that the israelis used hellfire missiles to destroy any vehicle. they killed huge numbers of their people and then cut of the vehicles and. the dish and buried them -- cut of the vehicles and buried them in order to hide the evidence. host: another person writing in a tt also concerned about milar issues, there he from new jersey. "expansion of the middle east war. hamas has netanyahu doing exactly whatheexpected him to do and we are being dragged into a predictable scenario." next we have rob in new york on our independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i have two stories.

about a month ago, there was a prostitution bust and it cost like $50,000 a night. we were told that there were several politicians involved in high-ranking businessmen. i would like to know why fbi is sitting on the information. we deserve to know. the second story is the media continues not to cover what is going on with the china virus such -- china virus shots. the expose had a story about the pfizer documents they are trying to hide from us. they relied on a projection that by 2025 the u.s. would be 58.4 thing percent -- 58% reduced population, germany would be 65%. my question is, why is nobody covering this?

there is the genocide. there were two kill three quarters of the world, there is your genocide. i don't want to hear about israel and gaza until our border is fixed. host: next up we have deli in harlem, new york. caller: thank you for taking my call. so much has been said. i wanted to speak about the hunter biden story. let me process what i am going to say. i am a loyal democrat. i followed his father's career many years. he was one of my favorite senators. my first would be hillary clinton, she was our senator here in new york. and of course, ted kennedy and then our current president, senator at the time.

what i am saying hurts me because i am a loyal democrat. i am going to be easier. -- easy here. when it actually happened, i saw the eclipse afterward of hunter biden -- the eclipse -- the clips of hunter biden and i saw him get up and walk out. it is upsetting toi would not vn because i am a democrat. a loyal democrat. not to say that i haven't. it is just that -- i was very saddened to see that happen. i really was. i really am.

to see him come into the hearing and then i saw how the republicans they, you know, they were upset. host: i think we have your idea. we are a bit out of time but we will be coming back to your calls later. up next, we will hear from columnist and economist peter morici who will discuss the latest inflation numbers and the role the economy will play in this election cycle. later we will look for the politics and the history of the iowa caucuses with drake university political science professor rachel paine caufield. we will be right back. ♪ >> monday night, watch campaign

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we're joined by peter morici, a nationally syndicated columnist and a university of maryland economics professor emeritus. welcome to the program. guest: nice to be with you. host: how would you describe the current state of the u.s. economy right now? guest: we are going through a period where we are consolidating. so much was pumped and through covid that it did two things. they gave us a big spending spree and give us inflation. the covid money is finally running out. it did not end when they stopped paying because people piled up so much money in the bank but it's starting to run down. thanks were pretty lenient when it came to loans. a lot got rolled over. we have a lot of business loans that have to be refinanced. we have the issues of real estate because of people relocating commercial real estate. it is not refinance of all and so forth.

we are looking at slower growth for the next three quarters. that does not mean we are going into recession. it just means we are going to be slowing down. is it a soft landing? no. you have to get the 2% inflation to have a soft landing and we are not there. host: that envious 2% inflation the federal reserve keeps going for. when we talk about inflation, looking at the article at yahoo! finance where inflation was up more than expected. consumer prices were up slightly at .3% over the last month in december. that was an increase from the .2% seen in november. 3.4% year-over-year. does that increase mean we are going in the wrong direction or an aberration from the trend? guest: i think it means we are flat. a 10th of a percent is not much to miss by. inflation has come down a great deal. the last mile is the most

difficult to obtain. think of it like running a marathon. it is not the 20 miles. it is the last six. it is the same with inflation. around the world you find where central banks have celebrated too early -- we are on the right track -- they miss it. it goes back up again. that was the experience in the late 1970's and early 1980's with the great inflation. the fed repeatedly let inflation go up and then brought it down but they did not bring it all the way back down. they started loosening again so we had a period like this. we were well above 10%. i don't mean for a little bit of time. we were stuck there. then we had very draconian poly measures -- policy measures to take it down. as tempting as it may be as the economy slows to lower interest rates, leave it alone. we have studies over 100 episodes over 40 countries where

there were early celebrations and the inflation came back. host: wall street is clamoring for those cuts already. guest: wall street seems to have a short memory. over the last 40 years the treasury rate averaged about 5%. right now the rate is 4%. considering the inflation we had, those are pretty generous terms. the stock market had good times and bad times at 5% interest rates. it can well do well at the interest rates we have now. the 10-year treasury, the benchmark, that is what your mortgage rate is set off of and car loans are set off of. it's at 4% now. that is hardly high inflation when you have -- it's hardly a high interest rate when you have 3% inflation. host: going back to the inflation numbers, are there particular sectors causing the increase we are seeing or what is keeping inflation from

getting to that 2% target? guest: expectations have built up that inflation is going to continue. the fed says it is not with its own data. if you look at private sector data, they expect inflation to continue. as a consequence, wage increases. people hold out for higher wages. wages tend to flow through most in the services sector. if we look at services, there's a problem there. housing is about 35% of the consumer price index. we have a housing shortage in america. we have a lot of difficulties building housing. it's an overregulated sector. it could take a year to put up a house. now it is two years and that is mostly inspections. a lot of this is silly and needless. i will give you an example. about 35 years ago, i put an addition on my house. when you do that is pretty much like building a house. pour concrete, the foundation,

the whole nine yards. the second time i did some work i finished the lower level, the basement level. i had to have an insulation inspection. a special inspector came by to make sure the insulation was put in. the contractor set up never failed an inspection. it was a totally needless enterprise. it seems to be that in the town i live in the inspectors tend to be retired fireman. that is what we do with fireman. that basically costs money. it drag things out and so forth. i really got a kick out of it. our commerce secretary -- democrats go crazy. if you say this to republicans, they applaud. the truth is in the middle. the commerce department is asking for given tory relief because the semiconductor factories the president wants to build in arizona are being held up by all the permitting. i found that rather amusing.

it reminded me of the time the city of alexandria could not or data building in a historic district because the historic district authority would not let them do it. they had two competing bureaus here. we need to do something about regulated and housing -- regulation and housing. it -- in housing. host: one sector that got attention was the cost of insurance holding up quite a bit of inflation. guest: i don't think there is much we can do about that. global warming has a lot to do with that. any measures we take the deal with global warming now will not change the fact that the 10 rich are has gone up quite a bit -- temperature has gone up quite a bit. we are getting a different pattern of storms. there's a lot of land that should never have been built on even in the old temperatures. in a situation we are in now they are really uninsurable.

places way have -- we have wildfires. they will burn down. we build them anyway. the hamptons will be underwater in 100 years. people go to live there, they will get floods, they want the insurance company to pay. there are whole sections of staten island, new york -- not anymore. the insurance companies show you paying the money out, they have to collected from someplace. then you get involved in ludicrous situations where state authorities will not let them raise rates nearly enough. you get involved in games. i want to raise my rates 40%. you can have 2%. they settle at 20%. that takes time and money. there's a lot of theater there. the risk of owning a home has gone up. we can't expect an insurance company to cover it for free. host: auto insurance also up pretty high as well. i want to let people know we will be taking your call for dr. morici.

(202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents, (202) 748-8002. i want to go back to the soft landing. an economist made comments on msnbc saying the fed is the biggest risk to landing next year. there is an intense debate over when the fed will cut rates next ar and by how much. inflation is moving down fast was 2%. it is time to start cutting rates. currently, 30 year fixed mortgage rre above 6%, which is about 2.5 times below in 2021. credit card and auto loan rates are higher. longer the fed which the cut the greaterhe bden on families or small businesses if people have to pull back on spending and investment too much, we could end up in a recession.

if the fed keeps interest rates too high for too long, we could miss the soft landing and end up in a recession. the fed would fail at its job. maximum employment and stable prices. that was from earlier this month. guest: who was she associated with? host: independent consultant. guest: i would like to never political affiliation. if yes democratic economists, it is cut the interest rate. if you ask republican economist s, it is keep it up. the democrats and the white house. the worst thing you can have for joe biden is a recession. i would like to know where her campaign contributions are going and show her a study by the imf that studied 100 circumstance of inflation and had the results i suggested. a soft landing would be no recession and 2% inflation. that has not happened in the postwar era ever.

we are basically chasing a unicorn. it is ludicrous to think you can pump up the economy right now as she suggests. i would love to have her here to debate. and not have more inflation again. what it would do is pump of the economy now. you would not get the inflation until after november. we know it takes a lag. i would like to know with the politics are there to be honest. host: before we get to collars i want to ask you what you think the current state of the economy, where we are with inflation and interest rates and what it means for the upcoming presidential election. that november date you were talking about. guest: i don't know it will have a lot to do with the elections. people will adjust to inflation at about 2.5% to 3% unless the situation in the middle east causes us to have a lot more inflation. that is where it would come from right now. we are settling for an event i cannot predict and you can't see.

i think people will adapt. other considerations will be more significant. i think where joe biden is vulnerable is build back america reflected this whole list of promises he made from college tuition to childcare and so forth that people feel badly about not having been kept. if you are a student, a former student and your loan was not forgiven, you were supposed to forgive my loan. if you are in college, you were supposed to give me free tuition at state universities. if you are a parent in the suburbs of long island or outside san francisco, you were supposed to give me free childcare. if you promise the list, you better be like santa claus and have life tenure which joe biden does not have. on the other hand, i have yet to see a discernible, coherent plan from donald trump. my feeling is they will probably cancel out on the economy. this will turn more on the issues of his joe to old and is

donald trump's character unacceptable. host: let's go to your calls. david in denison, texas. republican line. good morning, david. caller: good morning. i never miss the opportunity to watch when i hear you will be on. reverse repurchase agreements. the fed hiding money. we have since 2008, as i understand it, with a couple of spikes since then, the national banks, the fed, the bank of japan, the becca balint, we have printed more money than god. -- the bank of england. it seems small by comparison. yet, 2016 to 2020, inflation rates were very low. jim rickards mentioned in what he wrote that is was because we

were in a deflationary time and it kept the economy inflated to some degree. the question i have, since conventional wisdom is too much money printed chasing too few goods lead to inflation but we did not have -- guest: ok. got it. the way money and inflation work is if we print a lot of money and we give it out to folks like you and your neighbor and so forth and we are at full employment and everybody has a job and so forth and ever ready rushes out and spends the act of money, we will have inflation. if y'all stick it in mattresses, the money is not in circulation and it does not have any purpose or have any consequence. when we got that money mostly during covid both donald trump and joe biden, to be fair and

accurate, spent a great deal of money to prop people up during covid. more than was necessary. a lot of that money was socked away into the banks because they could not spend it. they were locked up in their houses and apartments. it was not out in circulation. it had no consequences. the inflation set in when the restrictions came off. then people were rushing around and going to concerts and all of a sudden people were bidding up the price of concerts. we had a lot of shutdowns, especially restaurants. people were crowding into restaurants. the prices were going up because there were surcharges. you have that. a a lot of fortuitous things kept inflation depressed between the global financial crisis and covid. those have largely gone away. if we print money, we will get

inflation. well we get it the next morning? no, but it will catch up with you. it's like infidelity. sooner or later your spouse finds out. host: what a comparison. guest: there's a sacred trust to give someone the capacity to print money. host: this is true. guest: if you're going to use that for the purposes of propping yourself up politically, which some of that was going on by both administrations. this will be a fantastic presidential campaign if we start talking about the economy. these guys have enough sense to work off a couple of millenniums in purgatory. this inflation -- it is nice to blame joe biden but the reality as it was really a joint venture of donald trump and joe biden spending too much money. guest: we haven't -- host: we have a comment from aberdeen, maryland. "inury economic terms

couldn't be argued that joe den is fighting inflation by keeping the sea lanes open and keeping supply chain availability and avoiding inflationary shipping costs?" i'm guessing this is in reference to the attacks by the who the rebels -- houthi rebels in yemen. guest: if the sea lanes closed, shipping costs go up. you have to go around the horn of africa. that is not going to have a large and lasting effect on inflation. it is going to cause some prices to go up but not a lot. it is a one time impact. in the sense that by keeping the ceilings opened, if you get -- sea lanes open, it is avoiding some inflation. i what point out the united states is not particularly assertive when it comes to the red sea. the recent attacks by the houthi in yemen will have little consequence.

they were broadcast weeks in advance and they hit all the missiles. a lot of this is really a show. host: lots of callers. next up is dave in new york on the independent line. go ahead, dave. caller: good morning. i think part of the problem started a lot earlier than the corona situation. it started really since the greenspan. he's always been bailing out wall street. always been running in. one the wall street degenerates get greedy and they do ignorant things they lose their money and alan greenspan bailed them out. the 2000.com blowup. -- dotcom blowup. and then in 2008 they started printing money.

guest: i can't imagine what you would call economists if we had someone from wall street sitting here. that is really not accurate. during the greenspan years inflation was reasonably under control considering what he inherited. during the miller years, who proceeded paul volker, inflation went up about 10%. volker was able to grind it down to about 4%. from there it gradually tapered. you really cannot pin this on greenspan. in this century, especially during the bernanke years, we had the influx of a lot of in extensive products from china. they were subsidizing them and so forth. we had -- i know folks do like to admit this but the consolidation of supply chains. for example, having two formula

manufacturers in the u.s. creates risks but it also lowers costs. for a decade the risks did not come back to us very much. we had a lot of circumstances whe of cost-cutting. i think we have run this string on that. we are reversing some of it because of the risks. i don't think the data on inflation for the 10 years before covid was less than 2%. if you want zero prices, you are probably not dealing with a market economy. it is hard to have zero inflation. host: i recall before the pandemic there were efforts and complaints about why inflation was not going up despite -- guest: there is a superstition at the federal reserve you have to have 2% inflation to have a healthy economy. i don't believe that. now i will be called a heretic

by 99% of the economists you bring in here. i think we can grow successfully under the right circumstances at less than 2% inflation. these circumstances don't exist at this point. i don't think we can get down to 2% easily. they would get upset because inflation was not 2%. the economy was growing. there was innovation taking place. you should worry about inflation being too low if the economy is not growing and you can't get people employed. we are creating record numbers of jobs and we are in pretty good shape. reality is covid upset a fairly healthy economy. through both the obama and the trump years. there was a lot of malpractice in the economic policy during both administrations. yet there was so much innovation going on from cell to artificial intelligence that it was hard to keep the truck from going. host: joanna in germantown,

maryland, democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. professor morici, comment on two things. this past week donald trump said he hopes the economy will crash this year. his exact quote -- i will not say the bed work -- he hopes the economy goes to 'f' this here. when he added $8 trillion to our debt, our deficit, more than any other president in history, the republicans said nothing. zip. not a word. now that joe biden is there, we cannot spend any money. we are spending too much money. the government is spending too much money. those two things i would like you to comment on please. guest: well, trump said he did not want to be herbert hoover and have the economy crashed as soon as he came into office. he hoped it would crash now.

take the whole context. now that i'm the defender of donald trump. i'm popular with the people that plant's economic policies for many reasons. they both added a lot to the debt. it depends on when you start counting and so forth. one party did it by cutting taxes. this has been a recurring theme. the other did it by creating new programs through which we do not have enough money. either way, you create more debt. if the economy is considered to be in a perilous position, you will find the federal reserve will buy that debt as opposed to letting it go to the open market and driving up interest rates. when it does that it creates a lot of money and will get the inflation -- we will get inflation. the two administrations borrowed huge sums of money and basically said pass it around. they borrowed the money.

if the bonds had been sold on the open market and left there that would have driven interest rates way up and run counter to their purpose of sustaining the economy. the federal reserve -- host: the interest rates would have gone up because the bonds would have been less valuable on the market? the government would have had to pay more to sell them? guest: there would be a greater supply of bonds. an inadequate demand. investors would have been in a position to demand more interest to take the bonds off their hands. the fed printed money and purchased the bonds. that money in turn -- that meant the money they got -- it was kind of a ponzi scheme in a sense. it was basically washington printing money to finance these programs. host: ok. peter is in new york on the

republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning, peter. good to see you again. you stole my thunder on a lot of this here. one of the biggest myths that politicians in washington seem to be perpetrating is that somehow it is greedy businessmen that are causing inflation. could you please explain to the public, which you did for the most part, deficit spending? it is not taxes. too much taxing on business also causes a lack of business. the more you tax something the less you get of it. and how the federal reserve actually instead of holding onto the reigns on federal spending is an enabler of the federal government because he keeps supplying them with unlimited amounts of cash to over stimulate the economy.

guest: it does not continually provide too much cash but it did so during covid. the federal government spent much more than it needed to to prop up the economy and keep us all solvent at home. in the process the federal reserve purchased the money. we were not working to create goods and services. the supply available was less. it is hard to see but restaurants closed, people did not go to restaurants because it was a foolish thing to do. they spent money on things like computers and things to occupy themselves at home. they finished their basements, although they had to do with themselves. they ran down to lowe's and they bought plywood and nails and all the rest. the economy's capacity to produce plywood and nails is limited and does not change a

lot quickly. they bid up the prices of nails and computers. some of that was shifting demand. greedy companies. some companies have profit tiered -- profiteered. some have not. consumer product companies recognized their products were in short supply. if you look at the books -- pepsi-cola, their revenues were up 10%. their profits were up 13%. they basically have raised their prices so much that one european -- they said we will not stock your products. are they going to stock coke instead? i have not looked at its numbers. it was raising prices. i don't know if they were raising them excessively. people who make paper towels and detergent had a lot of fun during this period. it is not so much bigness.

it is a matter that there was not enough capacity. they took advantage of it. a lot more pepsi got drunk at home than from soda fountains during covid. host: stephen in michigan asks, "do you feel it's a good idea to borrow money to pay for tax cuts?" guest: not really, no. if you're in a recession, yes. but, was that on the democratic line? host: it does not say. guest: the republican line would say it's a bad idea to borrow money and spend too much. it does not matter which one you do. it is how you -- it is the notion of doing it when you are near full employment and borrowing money to do it. either way, you spend money you don't have. that is where the big deficits come from. our deficit is pretty large now, near 6% of gdp.

it will be much larger, closer to 8% in the next decade. we are getting to a point where if we don't do something about it we will be our owing money just to pay interest. that is not a healthy situation. that is how argentina became argentina. host: brady in arizona on the independent line. caller: good morning. i wanted to say that time of the dollar is over. look what happened with the bric system in russia and how the implement in that. the dollar -- since 1971, richard nixon took us off the gold standard. that is where inflation kicked in. you want to look at the inflation in the last year. that all ties to the bric system and the death of the dollar. nobody is investing in the dollar anymore. host: let's get your response to that. guest: you have more misconceptions than i have age i am 75. the bric system has not

displaced the dollar. the dollar is the vehicle currency in the world. about 80% of trade is denominated in dollars. host: would you explain with the bric system is? guest: it's a small group of countries that are trying to develop an alternative to the dollar. let's look at who they are. south africa. a very unstable brazil. china. russia and so forth. do you honestly think the ruble and the yuan will replace the dollar? i don't think so. the dollar continues to be the vehicle currency. for example, if you are in chile and you want to import something from thailand, there is no viable market between chilean pesos and thai bats. e*trade pesos for dollars -- you

trade pesos for dollars. the dollar is supported by several payment systems that are not easily replicated both. all this has to be done -- replicatable. it doesn't have to do with economics. it has to do with the overuse of sanctions by the state department to accomplish foreign policy objectives. for example, the russian economy seems to not be very much affected by the fact that we imposed sanctions on it. they are pumping more oil. they have all the money they need to finance their work. the notion you can use sanctions instead of fighter jets is madness. the sanctions on iran. look at the red sea. the iranians are producing the missiles that are needed, providing them to the terrorists. the sanctions have not accomplished their objectives. when we impose sanctions on the

worst actors other countries get nervous that someday those sanctions will be imposed on them. that they will be deprived of the dollar system. when we imposed sanctions we cut them out of the dollar system to some aspect of their trades. for the russians it is oil. people are looking for some thing else. the europeans. several years back we did something -- iran. they got nervous. gee, this could be used against them. they started trying to come up with an alternative payment system for the dollars to buy oil. you don't see them doing that right now, because they need us again. they really don't have the capacity to stop russia. i don't know the you can do more with the german army then march it in a very nice memorial day parade. as a consequence they are happy to hide behind the notion that sanctions will solve the ukraine problem when it won't.

host: next up we have alan in chicago, indiana. democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm a big fan of watching. we enjoy it. the bric countries were brazil, russia, india and china. it was thought because of their large population if the people actually made disposable income, not just livable wages but disposable income they could pretty much have an economic boom and take over the world. with their type of political systems that never happened. what i wanted to say was that economists were put on the planet to make astrologist look good and i firmly believe that. i have a different view of what happened during covid. guest: we have done two things here. hold on a second. if you going to attack

economists, i will interrupt you. fair is fair. first of all, the brics have a large gdp underneath them because of china. they have a very powerful oil exporter, russia. there is economic fairway there. what keeps china from delivering an alternative currency is not their inability to establish some kind of payment system. if there is one country the world that can establish an alternative payment system it is china. they export so much. people need their currency in the end to buy their products. dollars have to get converted to yuan. it doesn't happen because politically china is such an unreliable and arbitrary regime. would you -- consider this. would you invest your grandmother's pension money in chinese government bonds? i don't think so.

when people hold the dollar they don't hold u.s. dollars per se. they tend to hold that he was government bonds. -- hold it in u.s. government bonds. china is such a politically risky place that it cannot possibly offer the people the security of their property long-term. that is why the dollar -- it is the rule of love that make the dollar the dollar or keeps it there. as for economists, i always thought begin economist, after it to me, was kind of like being a cross between a dentist and a chiropractor. nobody really wants to go to the dentist. whenever anybody goes to the chiropractor it's always very reluctantly. they really don't believe it works. when they get relief from the problems, they are glad they made the visit. host: alan, did you want to ask

about the covid economy without insulting him this time? guest: i don't feel so bad. people talk about economists. you should hear what they say about professors. keep it clean. caller: i will try to keep it vaccinated here. 72% of economists predicted we would have a recession in 2022 never happened. 2023, excuse me. i bet you were one of them. when the money that was given out for relief to america, tens of millions of people were not working. we had a negative gdp, which i thought was impossible. guest: it was like the great depression. caller: calm down. relax. people when unemployment.

there was a lot of state that had exceptionally low unemployment because they wanted people off of it. host: what is the question? guest: i'm trying to find the question here. caller: why would you call it inflation and not profiteering? guest: we had inflation. you can't deny that. if you go to the grocery store, prices are up. i think i'm covered there. corporations were not really taking really big profits. there are examples that i gave you. generalizing, in general, is not a bad thing to do. it was overdone. it is like if your doctor tells you to take one vitamin c a day and you will be healthier and you take 10. you might have stomach trouble. host: let's get a couple more calls before we have to let you go. tyrone in illinois on the republican line. go ahead, tyrone.

caller: good morning, mr. morici . i'm a small business owner in illinois. i look at our goods and services. unfortunately, we have to buy quite a bit of goods from china. notice that freight costs last year for a 40 foot high container was around $25,000 to $30,000. prices of shipping containers today are down to about $2500 for a 40 foot container. increase targets between 18% to 30%. we are seeing that coming down this year. i know that has a big player in the economy across the united states and goods coming in from china because of freight costs coming down as a whole. i would like to bring up what isn't the fed more proactive and retroactive?

they know the state of illinois took their minimum wage from $13 to $14 an hour. they knew that was going to happen. several other states had price increases or wage increases. that has a big effect on the economy. i wish the fed would be more proactive than retroactive. guest: i don't know you would want the fed to raise interest rates every time a state government decided or a group of state governments decided to raise the memo wage. it would just take you into a recession. the fed is not supposed to be political and it has to accept what governments do and react in the best way possible. don't -- the fed is not your problem. if you think the minimum wage should not be raised, your problem is the indiana state legislature. that is where you should take your complaints. mr. powell is not the wizard of

oz. he cannot make all things happen. in fact, in the end there really was no wizard. it was just an old guy standing behind a curtain. in a lot of ways that is the fed. the fed has limited powers. it has a responsibility to provide money to the economy as it expands. the economy expands it we need more money in circulation in a responsible way. for most of its history it has done that. there have been periods during the nixon years and the carter years where that was not done. we just had a period during the trump and biden years where it was not done. when jay powell was tellingrp us inflation was transitory, most of the world was saying it is not. when joe biden wanted to give us that last boost of stimulus spending when he first came in,

larry summers, the former clinton treasury secretary said this was the most irresponsible active macroeconomic policy he had seen. he was not alone. i was writing that my columns. others were too. we cannot keep presidents from behaving irresponsibly. all week and do is hold them accountable. the trouble is i don't know what we are going to do with this election. they both behaved irresponsibly and how much they cut taxes and how much they raised spending. talk about some irresponsible behavior. when donald trump wanted to cut taxes as much as he did, his treasury secretary was saying the tax cuts would pay for themselves. in economics, tax cuts pay for themselves a little bit. you spend $100 and you get $20 back for economic activity. it is like a physicist saying he

has a perpetual motion machine. the next time you can show me a perpetual motion machine, i can show you a tax cut that will pay for itself. likewise, the next time you show me perpetual motion machine i can show you a childcare subsidy that will not cause inflation in the present environment. host: the last we can squeeze in for now is bo in georgia on the independently. caller: thank you. i want to ask the professor a quick question. he talked about the federal reserve system and the previous chairman. back in 2008, and i know you will remember this because what happened on wall street and the banks, they started lowering interest rates and they got into quantitative easing of money. they were worried about business failures and they continued that on. i watched the show a few months ago that said this had some affect on causing inflation with some excessive amounts of money

pumped into the economy along with what happened with the covid. i would like you to talk about that and see if you agree with that nieces. guest: in the wake of the financial crisis the federal reserve bailed out the banks. the notion being if the big banks collapsed, and we had lehman brothers collapsed which was not really a bank but it was involved in mortgage lending and so forth indirectly by buying mortgage-backed securities. we bailed out general motors because we thought the economy could take that hit. to do that they printed money. we did not get a lot of inflation because the economy was tumbling down. we did not have the problem that people cannot go to work. we have the problem the economy was collapsing under basically a big financial bubble. that was quantitative easing. jay powell is spending a lot of money and that was quantitative

easing. sometimes it has a consequence and sometimes it doesn't. the quantity theory of money on which this is based posits you are at full employment effectively when you print money to cause inflation. in 2008, we were not going in the full employment because of the circumstances that existed in the wake of the financial crisis. host: thank you very much for your time, dr. morici. peter morici is a columnist and economist. you write regularly. where can we find your work? guest: the washington times and the dow jones market watch. host: coming up in about 30 minutes we will take you to a very snowy iowa where we will be joined by drake university professor rachel paine caufield to talk about the history and politics of the iowa caucuses. after the break, more of your phone calls on the question we asked you at the start of today's program.

what is your top news story of the week? it's a very busy week in washington, in the middle east and on the campaign trail in iowa. let us know what is on your mind. you can start calling you now. the numbers are on your screen. ♪ >> discover the heartbeat of democracy with c-span's voices 2024 as we engage voters nationwide asking, what issue is most important to you in this election and why? >> i'm from columbus, ohio. the most important issue is the united states support for ukraine. the failure to support ukraine will be a violation of the 1994 budapest memorandum. >> the most important issue this election is abortion now that

roe v. wade is turned over. i want to see how politicians handle this issue in terms of reproductive health and making abortion unthinkable and more access to other health care alternatives and contraceptives and making sure mothers and babies are protected outside the womb. >> i'm alberto from cincinnati , ohio. the most important issue is education. no one has been talking about this issue and we have been falling behind year after year. >> i'm fromentucky. the most important issue is returning civility to public discourse. i think it is time the candidates commit to going back to civil discourse. >> c-span's voices 2024. be a part of the conversation.

>> weekends bring you book tv featuring leading authors discussing the lest nonfiction books. african amick and policy forum co-founder kimberly crenshaw shares black women's stories of police violence in her book, "say her name" on afterwards, rachel slade shares her book "making it america," where she looks at the challenging of manufacturing goods through e lens of a sweatshirt company in maine. she's interviewed by new york times editorial board member farah stockman. watch book tv every weekend on c-span2. find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress. from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party

briefings, and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. c-span. your unfiltered view of government. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are hearing from you on your top news stories of the week. several big stories that we have been following, including the u.s. led strikes in yemen on houthi rebels, as well as defense secretary austin and his hospitalization and the fallout from the comnication or lack thereof around that. caaign 2024 and the iowa caucuses countdown. we are dealing with pretty bad weather t there. as well as the hearing on trump and the january 6 presidential immunity claim. also, hunter biden and the

contempt of congress resolution. and homeland security secretary mayorkas and the impeachment proceedings against him in the house. also in more recent news, just breaking this morning, and taiwan. taiwan's ruling progressive party pulled off a historic third consecutive presidential victory on saturday as voters shrugged off warnings by china that the reelection would increase the risk of conflict. this is from cnn. taiwan's current vice president declared victory on saturday evening while his two main opposition rivals conceded defeat. dennis speech to jubilant he called his win a victory for the community of democracies. between democracy and ll stand on the side of democracy. the results from taiwan's central election committee which

are still being finalized when the victory and concession speeches were being made shows he had a 40% of the popular vote while his two main rivals trailed with 33% and 26% respectively. here to the our own elections and the republican caucus happening in iowa coming up on monday. much more active on the republican side of things. there was a gop presidential debate early this week on wednesday. at the same time former president donald trump was at a fox news town hall on wednesday night. he was asked about his plan to lower the national debt. then he accused his republican opponents nikki haley and ron desantis of wanting to cut medicare and social security. [video] >> when nikki haley and ron desantis hit you on this $8 trillion figure and call you a big government republican, what do you say? >> very simply we were starting

to pay down debt. we were going to pay down a lot of debt. when covid came along, if it did not inject this country with money you would have had a depression the likes of which you have never seen. you had to inject money. we gave businesses that were going bankrupt, temporarily bankrupt. if i did not do that you have at a depression in this country. that was a good investment. what they should be doing instead of the kind of debt they are building at record levels, they should be paying down their debt and they ought to go into the energy business instead of this green new scam business they are in. >> what about cutting spending? $34 trillion in debt. ■let's look at what you would do in terms of getting that number down. >> we have a lot of cutting but a lot of income. we have more oil and gas than any other country in the world. when i came in we were number

four. when i left, not that long a period of■ time, for years, we were number one by a lot. we were soon going to double up saudi arabia and russia combined. we were going to make a lot of money. we have a lot of potential income. desantis wants to cut social security and medicare. nikki haley wanted to raise the age from 65 to 74. >> only for young people in their 20's. that will run out of money. at some point someone has to address it, right? >> that is what they say when it starts. it's only for young people. then it does not work for young people and that the get the people of the age where it matters. no good. st: that is from the fox news town hall with former president donald trump earlier this week. let's get to your calls in your

own top news story of the week. andy in dayton, ohio on the democratic line. caller: good morning. greetings from snowy dayton. i moderate to be the first call today. how are you doing? host: fine, thank you. caller: i thought the interesting story was that the lunar mission that they launched and the fact that it was a private company from pittsburgh that was trying to accomplish a soft landing on the moon. they are trying to be the first company to do that. the first private enterprise to do that. they are part of a bigger project. some kind of big alliance, which i don't even know the details of that. i hope elon musk is not involved with this one. i'm sick and tired of him and oligarchs like him, and trump. loudmouth jerks. i'm sick of them.

i'm a proud democrat. i like joe. joe is doing a great job. host: we looked up an article about that lunar mission you are referencing. it did not seem to go so well. here's the story from nbc news. the private mission to the moon will not land on the lunar surface after a malfunction. it says, "a privately built spacecraft will not reach the lunar surface after it suffered a critical malfunction hours after lift off. astra biotic technology, the firm that developed the peregrine lander said tuesday the spacecraft is leaking propellant, making it impossible to complete the mission given the propellant leak. there is no chance of a soft landing on the moon. the company said in a statement the trouble started shortly after the lander launched into orbit.

despite successfully separating from its vulcan rocket the spacecraft sustained what astra biotic's seven most likely was a propulsion failure. the first image released monday showed ruptured insulation that they said appeared to confirm the problem centered around the spacecraft's propulsion system." alright then let's go to stand in florida on the independent line. caller: i think the most important thing is that donald trump doesn't get in the white house. if joe biden wanted he could target his son. but he didn't do it because he is in honest man. you think donald trump would not have pardon his son? they went to that meeting and there are five guys that did not

honor their subpoenas. they talked about all of the money he got from china, saudi arabia. jared kushner got billions of dollars from saudi arabia. donald trump got all kinds of international money through his hotels. he passed a tax cut but it didn't help me. host: randy in texas on the republican line. caller: my question is on the presidential immunity law. judge pam went to a hypothetical about assassinating a former political opponent. if president trump executive jet

were flying across united states and lost cabin pressure, joe biden has the authorization to shoot that shut down in an unpopulated area and would not be convicted of murder. thank you for this. host: marcus in georgia on the democratic line. caller: good morning. my issue of the week is the immunity clause and i think the previous caller is way out of bounds. if presidents have the immunity to kill their rivals that means the president biden can kill either nikki haley, trump, or

desantis. the reality is, we can't allow presidents or anyone in any political field to kill their rivals. it will be anarchy across the political spectrum. host: next step we have eileen and saint petersburg florida on the democratic line. caller: good morning. the independent and who brought up hunter biden installed my thunder but i want to bring up a different perspective. i was watching c-span with that debacle unfolded, especially when they brought up the republicans who ignored their subpoenas. what i want to bring up is this.

hunter biden is a recovering addict. we should praise him for his recovery. if the republicans think about it, they gave the middle of honoring to rush limbaugh who was a drug addict. they did not shame him. also, donald trump parted jared kushner's father, do not you think that's hypocritical? to attack hunter when the republicans are praising and pardoning and getting metals to the same people. that's all i have to say. host: next step is lynn and allentown, pennsylvania on the republican line. caller: i just called to say, i

think everyone needs to go with trump. we may not like his tweets but we were all better off three years ago. host: how were you better off three years ago? caller: inflation, the price in grocery stores. i understand that hunter biden is a recovering addict but i did not go and do tax fraud and get money from foreign nationals and my father is in politics. i did not think i was above the law. i am a recovering addict and alcoholic. i give kudos to him in recovery and i hope he continues but that

does not mean he is not responsible for what he chose to do. just like i would be responsible for what i do. just as a person, period. host: congratulations on your recovery. the top democrat jamie raskin had statements during the hearing about the various times hunter biden tried to cooperate with the committee. [video clip] >> for the last 11 months the chairman has refused offers from hunter biden who is determined to meet with the chairman and members of this committee. february 9, one day after the chairman's first letter, bidens lawyer responded and offered to meet with their staff to see if

he has information that could inform legislative purposes. but the chairman never responded. on november 13 they wrote to chairman komar after an interview where he falsely claimed he never got a response back to his original letter. they explain the chairman actually never responded to his offer but stated he remained available to have the discussion but the chairman again completely failed to respond. two months later they issued subpoenas requiring his appearance for a deposition and the cover letter they noted giving your clients willingness to address this investigation publicly we would expect him to testify before congress.

they urged mr. biden to come up here at a public committee meeting hearing and on new specs the chairman stated that he is more and welcome to appear before the committee. if he wants to clear his name he could come today and we will drop everything. host: next up we have john in taxes on the independent line. caller: good morning. i wanted to the topic. i know we have a big game tonight. nbc has move this to pay-per-view so will only be available in local marcus to the

general market. you either have to be a subscriber to peacock or you have to pay five dollars and 99 cents. or go through the trouble to sign up to another stream service. this is an affront from the nfl and nbc to do this. they could have been in the 3:00 slot, those are my topics for today. host: are you going to pay for the rental? caller: i am not going to pay for it. host: hopefully, you can catch

it somewhere else a good luck to your team. next step is danny and georgia on the democratic line. caller: i agree with that last collar. -- caller. just want to make people aware of this. the next time you get one of the trump callers who like their policies. what policies do you like? do you like the fact that he raised the deficit $8 trillion? you want to give him another four years to add 8 trillion. host: this question was asked of him at the town hall and he said the spending was necessary

because of the scale of the pandemic and effort to prevent the economy for going into a worse state. caller: but he also said you could take bleach to get rid of covid. every word out of his mouth is a lie. when they say that they like trump's policy. under its policy one million people died. when he cut taxes for $2.4 trillion? every spending bill that was passed for the republican congress when they have full power. all of that added to the deficit. art the policies that they like? another trump policy,

threatening ukraine if they don't make a political statement on your behalf? i just wish he would put people on and asked them which policy do you actually like? caller: we have bob in eagle river, wisconsin. caller: inflation is probably my top concern. if people remember when obama took office the deficit was 9 trillion an hour at 34 trillion. we are at 25 trillion. republicans have spent 7 trillion and four of it was bipartisan for covid. republicans spent three out of 25 trillion. the rest is all from democrats. $18 trillion. host: the later covid packages

also had bipartisan support do you consider that democratic responsibility? caller: covid is not anybody's responsibility. that was a bad time that had to be funded. it was bipartisan but that still leaves 15 trillion on democrats? host: go ahead. caller: that's it. from obama until now we have had three presidents and we are 25 trillion in debt from obama to bidení and republicans only spet three. it's their fault for inflation. host: philip in mississippi.

caller: good morning, thank you for the opportunity. the information regarding the doomsday clock. when you talk about covid, climate change. by the way, i would not want to be playing in kansas. temperature in the single digits. i'm here to talk about climate change. i think climate change and the doomsday clock, it could happen

to all of humanity. it has nothing to do with the economy. we have so many weapons, insecurity. we are only seconds away from a mass incident. people just can't understand that. it's not just the economy. there are other factors that will annihilate the human race. maybe not in the united states but it will be a serious challenge. host: thank you philip, we will go to sherry in harrison, arkansas on the democratic line. can you turn down the volume on your tv? caller: i just want to make the

statement after everything that donald trump has said and done and tweeted and all the crazy stuff he said. i do not understand how all of these people are still following him. the man is deranged. it is sickening to mean. it is very sickening. i have never been real political. i have always voted since i was 19. how do all of these people give him a pass on how he behaves? his behavior is appalling. i want to go back to when he was mocking the handicapped reporter. in making fun of him and he

think that's ok? i have a handicap son. i saw that and now, that was big news. no, it wasn't fake news. i saw it live when he did it. and all of the people who are following him, they must be like men did like him. host: that is all the time we have now. up next on the washington journal with the iowa caucuses just days away we will go live to des moines, iowa, for a preview of what's at stake and explore the history of the caucuses with drake university's political science professor rachel paine caufield. but look at the impact on the

businesses in des moines and why it feels different this time around. [video clip] >> it starts when the candidates come around and test the waters. >> people are coming into town and we have a lot of reporters and news crews and people trying to get insight into how the city functions through the caucuses. >> we are a share workspace. we have had campaign staff sometimes with the candidates themselves. >> i am the president and ceo of the convention and visitors bureau. we estimate that this week alone in the des moines metro area we will bring in 14.2 one million. four years ago we did calculations and it was a little

over 11 million. the difference this year is a couple of different things. the media accounts are down. >> i would say is pretty subdued. if you go back for years, you would have six or seven news crews on the corners that were all talking about caucus results. we don't see that. it seems like not only locally but nationally they've lost interest. i think people are just ready to get through it. it is supercold. we have had 12 inches in the last 48 hours. subdued with the weather. >> is not necessarily somber but more serious than past caucuses and past political events.

i think people are more focused and there is more at stake this time. the seriousness of the way people are approaching it. the discussion this not out in the openness vessel was previously. >> i think there are some people who are not sure. we've seen on the democrat side they prioritized other cities. ■o6éi wonder if they're spending more time in new hampshire and south carolina. >> we are caucus state so having that identity taken away is hitting a lot of people because that was something important about iowa.

as far want business to be there and people to come in. >> it brings a lot of concerns. i am hopeful that iowa can remain first in the nation. it is very important to us as citizens of iowa. i think we do a wonderful job of going through the candidates and educating ourselves on the candidates and protecting that the rest of the country. i am really hopeful that the dnc will come back and say we need to do something different and t's keep iowa first in the nation. >> today florida goverr and candidate ron desantis participates in a meet and greet an iowa. that begins at 3:00 p.m. eastern.

watch c-span campaign 2020 for live coverage of the iowa caucus as they make their final pitch until the contest. meet with iowa caucus reporters and experts. watch iowa caucus coverage. on c-span now or online at c-span.org/campaign 2024. c-span your unfiltered view of politics. washington journal continues. host: welcome back we are joined by racl a political science professor and cochair at drake university and author of the book, the iowa caucus. welcome to the program on a very bad weather day. guest: it is a snowy day but

they you for having me. host: it is so nice to have you. for people who are not familiar can you lay out the basics? are both of the parties having their caucus and can you explain how they are different or similar? guest: both parties will be caucusing on monday evening. the caucuses have this component which is the presidential preference poll. this year with the democrats are doing their preference poll differently. the republicans will do the same caucus procedure that they have had in the past. they will come together on monday night and after some brief speeches and party building activities they will have a chance to vote for the candidate they believe is best capable of representing their party in the presidential election.

everyone gets a piece of paper and write down the name of the person they support, hand them into the front and those reports will be sent into the party. and then the party reports to the media. the democrats have changed it. many people have spent years to try to master and in person presidential poll. none of that is happening this year. instead, they will meet simply to do party business in the presidential preference poll has been separated from that meeting. they are doing a mail in poll where they can request a preference card be mailed to them. they can indicate whichever

candidate they support. i don't think anyone will be surprised that joe biden will be the winner of thought. those results will be reported out on march 5 which is super tuesday. a little bit different this year, democrats an republicans have used different processes but they have shifted to south carolina is first in the nation. host: we will be taking your calls if you call in with questions. we will also be taking calls later on because we will hear the gop candidates make their final pitch to caucus-goers before the first in the nation contest. we will be tracking events with nikki haley, ron desantis and asa hutchinson. we will take those calls starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern.

i want to go down to the breakdown of the political distribution and iowa voters. we have voter registration numbers here that are 46 percent republican 42% democrat and other being 1%. how does the distribution -- how has that changed over time? guest: iowa was a quintessential purple state in one of the interesting things about iowa is more than one third of our counties are pivot counties. in the general elections they voted for barack obama in 2008, 2012 and then shifted and voted for trump.

we have seen a rightward shift in a lot of rural areas across iowa, conservative populism has really taken hold in a lot of areas across iowa. importantly, you can register on your way into the caucus. one of the unique things about 2024 is independents and moderate democrats, because there is not a competitive race and not of presidential preference poll happening, they may decide they want to register as republicans and attend those caucuses. that would be consistent and entirely legal. to register on your way in. the party runs the caucus

process. they will be registering voters on their way into the room. if you are not registered you can still do so. host: let's back up and talk about the history of the caucus. when did they start and why did iowa opt for a caucus and set up a primary? guest: iowa has always had a caucus in most states had a caucus early in american history. that was the standard ways they would be. activist would come together and have conversations about party business. they would talk about the platform, candidate selection. there were party affairs. there was a backlash against party meetings in large areas dominated by machine politics. the progressive movement put

forward the direct primary. instead of having voile party activists come together to make these decisions. they would throw open the doors and say if you affiliate with our political party, we want you to participate in it will be a state run primary. anybody can take part. that was seen as a democratizing influence in a lot of states move towards primaries early in the 20th century. in 1968, some people might recall the dynamics of 1968. the democrats had a tumultuous convention in chicago and as a result, all of the chaos had been seen on national tv and there was a huge split in the

party. they went on to lose that election to richard nixon. the party wanted to regroup. they sat down and they said, something is not working. we have to figure out a way to bring their people back into the fold. they put together a commission called the fraser commission and made a series of recommendations that would be binding. one of which, if you held a caucus it would have to occur on the local level. it needed to be easy for anyone to participate in the caucus process. a lot of state party organization said this seems like a nightmare to organize. instead we can shift the burden to the state and moved to a primary.

we sought an acceleration to primaries after 1968. in iowa we did not shift to a primary. they crafted a four step process that began with local■ caucuses in a precinct caucuses they would've liked them to a county convention in the district convention widow like delegates to the state in the state would like delegates to the national convention. as they were planning out the calendar they looked at the date of the national convention. they've mapped backwards because we didn't have the internet and information, travel plans. iowa

was first in 1972 and has been first ever since. the democrats of change that for 2024. there was no grand plan behind it. host: let's talk about those changes, the democrats decided to change their take precedence on february 3 and new hampshire's primary is on the 23rd. are there political or logistical implications? guest: there are a ton of political and logistical implications. the dnc put together a process by which states could apply to be a part of the first five.

each state delegation had a chance to address the rules of the committee and the rules some bylaw committee hashed out a plan. they kept delaying their decision and interestingly it was not until joe biden came forward with his plan, this is how i think democrats should do it. this is really his plan for the democratic nomination. unsurprisingly, it favors joe biden. he would not be president without south carolina. importantly, the chair of the dnc is also from south carolina. so they will go first. and new hampshire's said we will continue to hold our primary. as a result, joe biden's name will not be on the ballot in new

hampshire and it will lose their place in the national convention. politically the process was set up to favor joe biden. it was crafted specifically on his wishes. he also said he thinksar shouldy four years. the democrats may be going through a whole new process to bed potential states and figure out a new calendar for 2028 which could get very confusing to a lot of voters. one of the benefits to do this job is so candidates can be ready. voters are ready, candidates are ready. i guarantee right after the general election a bunch of democrats will be chomping at

the bit to start putting together a campaign organization, they will need to know where to go. host: we have lots of comments and questions for you. a text message from mike. 750,000 republicans but the largt turnout is 189,000. it seems like a small portion of hardliners pick candidates the people don't want. guest: i would not say it's a candidate no one wants. we are first, not last. we wait in first and subsequent stays participate in the process as well. it is true caucus turnout is low because you have to be in one place at one time. there is not an easy way to do absentee voting.

one of the ships and understanding, this nomination is a party selection process whereas the party is choosing a nominee that represents the ideals, values and policy that the party will pursue going forward. over time, we have come to think of it as a pre-election. everyone gets to decide which candidate they want. those are different ways of conceptualizing it. host: let's go to the calls, ron and council bluffs, iowa. on the this will be my first caucus and a journalist said that everyone is supposed to show up at 7:00.

is this a general election where you can vote all day long? or does everyone have to go at 7:00? could you explain the process for the time you walk in the front door what happens? guest: i would be happy to. you have to be at your precinct location at 7:00 p.m. you cannot vote throughout the day. it is an in person party meeting. everyone comes together at the same time and you can go to the website and they will have a list of precinct location to find out where your precinct is meeting. there will be petitions to sign and party business paperwork. once you are actually meeting as a caucus, the chair will lead the group and that's to

volunteer for the party. the very first thing that will happen is an opportunity for individuals who are attending the caucus to speak on behalf of the candidate or campaign. attendees will give short speeches. they will move to the presidential preference vote and it is very quick. you get a little piece of paper where you write down the candidate and pass it to the front and they will collect them in baskets. up to the front and there will be a brief pause while all of those little pieces of paper counted. and then they will move on to

two other sets. a lot of people will leave after the vote. then they will elect delegates to the county convention and anyone can raise their hand to volunteer to run and service a o3delicate -- delicate. egate. anyone will have the opportunity to propose a plank for the platform. if you have an issue that you care a great deal about or specific issue you can go to your precinct caucus and put a proposed plank to the platform and it will be considered by the people in the room. if it passes, it will go to the county convention.

at the end they convene and that will be the end of it. for the republicans, if it's in the neighborhood of 45 minutes, to one hour at the most. compared to the democrats. host: another question on text message, what is the percent of minorities in iowa and how did they affect the results? we will bring up census data on iowa's population and the demographic down. 83.7% white, 6.9 hispanic or latino, 4.4% african-american, 2.2% two or more races. how does that show up in the caucus? guest: it depends largely on how the candidates motivate those

demographics across iowa. in the republican caucus you have an influence on evangelical voters. nonwhite voters across rural parts of iowa may have different concerns and interests. specifically, i know a lot of people get confused about immigration with republican voters. we are an agricultural state. immigration matters a great deal to farm labor and over the past several decades, many small towns are largely surviving because of the influx of immigrants. that influx of immigrants has change the cultural complexion

of some small towns and it has created conflict. i'm reminded of a farmer who spent his entire life living in one small town. his church was his primary community focus. over the past few years, church services were being offered in spanish and that was a huge change for him in a big shift in how he thought about his community. in those population it doesn't matter. it's a predominantly white state but just like a lot of rural and agricultural states we are navigating these dynamics both large and small. host: a quick question, can a person participate in republican

caucus and register as a democrat and participate in that caucus in march? guest: this is one of the new dynamics entering the caucus this. usually, they would do their presidential preference poll with the same time on the same night. because they have separated their poll and doing it by mail you could reregister and attend the republican caucus. but when you sign up with the democrats, if you would like them to mail you a preference card. when you do that you have to attest to the fact that you are a registered democrat and have not participated in any other parties contests.

that is their mechanism of trying to ensure voters are not participating in both the republican and democratic processes here. we don't know exactly how effective that is. right now it appears that the voters themselves, it is their responsibility to attest that they are only participating in the republican or democrat process. host: the honor system? guest: it's iowa. there's a lot of things that happened in iowa there probably couldn't take another states. host: was get to another call for someone in iweb. owa. caller: i am a democrat.

i will caucus again. this will be my second democrat caucus. if we get dug out of the blizzard. i lost my machinist job in 2019. he turned his back on this when our jobs were shipped overseas and to a nonunion plant. our governor went to a facility in north carolina where are jobs were shipped to. i think republicans have turned their back on this. i want to thank you for speaking out about this. guest: i think you are pointing to a problem that a lot of areas of iowa are speaking about.

iowa has traditionally have a strong agricultural base but also a strong manufacturing base , particular in the 1990's. manufacturing base wasollowed out by changing trade laws, labor laws. that began in the 1990's continued into the 2000's. you are seeing a lot of people across iowa looking very closely at where jobs are going and how to reinvigorate many of the small towns. donald trump was really able to capitalize on a lot of frustration. rising unemployment, loss of manufacturing jobs. when a player closes, it's not just the job the disappears for the community around it.

the small businesses that grow up around those jobs. many of these communities have struggled to figure out the next steps. as we go, the labor protections have been removed. there are a lot of really interesting political dynamics around that and i certainly understand the frustration being expressed. host: next up is bill from florida on the independent line. caller: i voted libertarian for many years. i one question is, do you think the libertarian party would be wise to have caucuses in iowa? i would think it would be a way to garner or start grassroots support.

guest: many parties conduct different ways of selecting their candidates. the caucus is a unique way because encourages party building. as a talk about the party platform and potential candidates and not doing, not just a handful of people but across every small town. by its nature is a party building activity. people become invested when they are working face-to-face with her people. it really is a community building activity. one of the challenges for a smaller party is that it is a logistical feed to do this.

there are 1700 caucus locations that all meet at the same time on monday night. you have to find the space, volunteers to leave those meanings, distribute materials to each of those locations. it is a significant organizational accomplishment to hold these meanings in the first place. that would be the big challenge of a relatively smaller part are doing that. host: julie and fort wayne, indiana, on the republican line. caller: in indiana, i am a poll worker for the republican party and the clerk. when someone walks up to our counter and i verify who they are by their drivers license, they tell me in the primary

whether they want to vote democrat or republican. they walk over to the judge and takes them to a polling station and give them the ballot. in indiana, if you wanted to be a spoiler, you would say you are in the opposite party and vote for the person you thought your party could be. i know that happens. i'm just curious, do you have any statistics on how that could happen in iowa if they wanted to not have trump when? with democrat show up, vote as a republican to make sure someone else runs? guest: we don't have statistics on that because traditionally republicans and democrats meet

at the same time on caucus night. traditionally, you could only be in one place at one time. democrats coded their meeting and republicans coded their meeting. this is the first year where they are separate from each other. we have never seen anything quite like it. i am sure there are people who have reregister to attend caucuses especially in years when their party is not having a competitive nomination. but for the most part, this is not something that has been shot and not something that has been an issue. host: robert on addicts asks how do the caucus differ from a primary election? is it first runoff or choice voting?

guest: the democrats used a convoluted counting system but it's easier now. for our primary, most people will be familiar with how a primary works. it's like a general election. some during the day you know when you're polling places open. you sign in, you take your ballot and you check a box or fill in an oval. you had a button on the machine to indicate your preference and leave. it is very individualistic, you do it privately. then you go home and go on about your day. it's quick. the caucus process is different in the sense that everybody's

together in a room, it's a party meeting. you have to be there at 7:00 p.m. everybody in that precinct who was caucusing with the party will be in that room with you. there will be an opportunity to talk about the candidates. for republicans, they write the name down on the paper in the real results will be reported for the party. the party will report them to the media. democrats used to have a convoluted system of proportional legislation -- representation. we have not seen brought vote totals but the republicans a a secret ballot, winner take all.

easily within an hour of the caucus. host: let's see how many calls we could squeeze in, mike in long beach on the republican line. caller: yes, good morning. i want to correct something that was said by donald trump he was speaking about the benefits of his presidency. host: do you have a question? caller: yeah, i do. this is because of citizens united that were bickering between corporate candidates. guest: citizens united change the campaign-finance structure. in iowa, one of the things that has always been true. no matter how much money you spent on advertising, if you are

not a strong candidate in your face-to-face meetings you will not get far. weing it to candidates that have a lot of money. that has always been true. that was true before citizens united. it takes a lot of money to run for president. host: johnny is in granite falls. caller: thank you for taking my call. i've a two-part question that is generally about the party system. do you think there is a necessity for a two-party system in this country? if not, is there an alternative to the two-party system? guest: i don't know if there is a necessity for the two-party system but i do think the

constitutional structure of our electoral system will favor to political parties. we know you have to win a majority of the electoral college. u.n. electoral college votes by wending the majority of popular votes. anytime you have a majority rule system which the u.s. prides itself on in a democracy, it is easy to think of a third party candidate is a spoiler. they are going to take a vote away from one of the two major party candidates. it is simply not rational for a

voter to support third party candidate. not meaning rational as in knock will consider blood in the technical sense. it will be difficult to have a viable third party at the presidential level. we have dozens of political parties that run in elections across the country and are sometimes a weapon at the local level. it is incredibly difficult to conceptualize how a third-party candidate would be able to organize at the third level and break through the structural constraints that favor the two-party system. host: nancy is in minnesota. caller: one of the main questions, according to the democrats, all the migrants coming in were supposed to be

charged with getting their own drivers license. if they come in vote republican and democrat caucuses. and then biden has told them to vote for me. how was that followed within the migrant population? guest: i don't expect this will be a prominent problem across iowa. i say that for a few different reasons. caucuses are in person meetings. people within the room know each other. if you are a new caucus-goers, you will have an opportunity to meet people.

the secretary of state's office will go through all of the new registration after the fact we will know pretty clearly who participated. we have never had instances of fraud and iowa elections -- in iowa elections. i don't think this will be a major concern or a concern at all. there is so weird dimension where democrats will have to verify their voters and their male and presidential preference poll. the party capable of doing that. it will be a manual effort. host: david in pennsylvania on the independent line. caller: -- prevail to prevent dey

from being knocked out. voices of the democratic voters in isla will net -- in iowa will not be out monday. they are doing mail-in ballots. those will not be counted until march or april. whatever happened to having free elections or caucuses the day of. now it is going back to mail-in ballots. in 2020, there was so much embarrassment with mail-in ballots carried over for three and five days. now we will carry them over for two months. the voices of democrats in iowa will not be hurt. if you ran against joe biden in the caucuses, the votes may not even be counted.

this is ridiculous. we are going back to being accused of voter fraud, which we did 2.5 years ago. now we will do it again. host: let's give dr. caulfield a chance to give her final comments. guest: generally, the democrats have tried to negotiate this change as gracefully as they can, but the demands coming out of the dnc right now are things they do not neatly map onto a caucus system. iowa democrats have worked to try to figure out a way turkeys the dnc while at the same time coming up with something that approximates the community based gathering of a caucus. i will say i find the changes that are being made right now a

look confusing. i have been watching from the beginning and i see this only because the primary justification for making these changes is to make the party more inclusive, to bring in younger, more progressive voices, to ensure democratic representation across the party. yet, the dnc has created a process that makes it impossible for any other candidate to emerge as a challenger to joe biden, despite the fact that 50% to 60% of democrats have said that they are not entirely enthusiastic about joe biden. that seems to be the opposite of inclusive decision-making. i do think that the democratic party will have some more work to do as it goes forward to try to clarify its nominating process for upcoming years.

host: that is all the time we have for today. thank you so much, dr. caulfield , i -- author of the iowa caucus and professor of political science at drake university. for those who did not get your calls in who want to participate, later tonight, we are going to be having more coverage. you can hear gop candidates make their final pitches to iowa caucus-goers before the contest begins, with nikki haley, ron desantis, asa hutchinson. we will be taking more of your calls and social media comments on campaign 2024. our live discussion begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern. we will be back tomorrow morning with washington journal. have a great day.

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