continues. host: our next guest is v nyack with the center for american progress action fund. he serves as their president. guest: good to be here. host: a little bit about the fund. tell people what it is. guest: it is a center-left advocacy work station. our mission is simple, which is to improve the lives of all americans. we celebrated our 20th anniversary this year, and a lot of huge successes we are proud of, in -- including extending access to health care for all americans. plato huge role in the passage of the american character and defense of it. we work on a suite of issues from national security, education, democracy reforms, and proud of what we have done, and obviously a lot more work to do in this country still. host: time of year politically, up to a presidential nominating contest,

what was the action fund involved with? guest: we do a range of things. the communications infrastructure has changed a lot in the last 20 years. we invest a lot in messaging research, trying to understand where voters are at, how to talk to voters, a kind of messages and issues resonate with them. we have a huge digital communications on what is called the organic side. not just paying to put content in front of voters, but actually create content that gets shared organically and working with a lot of our partners in the progressive space to do that. we invest in storytelling, of finding americans' whose lives have been improved by progressive policies and have something to lose by, often, conservative or republican policies. also the core of our operation involves a lot of policy thinkers, so we can do a lot of really powerful analysis on the

impacts of policies, both for the good and bad. host: on the idea of messaging and storytelling, what was the messaging and storytelling out of iowa yesterday? guest: i think it is pretty clear. it is the one that has been playing out for several years, and they think really hard to deny, which is maga has taken over the republican party. i think it is it -- it is as simple as that. have this faction donald trump has led, much bigger than donald trump now. not only at the elected leader level, but that base of voters has grown. and it is this extreme faction that now actually runs the republican party. i think the largest take away from last night is how much that is sort of where the base of the party is, and caucuses are really the base of the base, right? you are asking people to come out at a specific time and it is much more of a commit than voting often is. i think that is sort of the

largest take away here. that is something we have known for a while. there was this sense that after january 6, after republicans sort of got rejected in the midterms in 2022, that the party my chart a different course. last night was a reminder they haven't. this is just who they are. host: was it the number that donald trump won by yesterday? guest: it is a few things. yes, the horse race side of this, which is on the one hand donald trump was the incumbent. he has been president. he won in 2020 unopposed, so from the perspective of an incumbent it was a pretty poor showing to only get half the vote. from the perspective of an open primary race, which it -- which is how most of the media has

treated it, it is an impressive victory. but this is not a guy who was unknown six months ago. he was president for four years, and continue to be in the political conversation. that is one element. all with a grain of salt, but some of the telltale signs of maga work revealed there, which is had two thirds of the people who caucused yesterday do not believe joe biden won in 2020. that is a very extreme view in america, to continue to believe that joe biden did not win legitimately in 2020. you have two thirds that think that, even if donald trump were convicted of a crime. so, a court of law has decided that he has conducted crimes. two thirds say he would still be fit for president. and then you have 60%, i think, support a ban on abortion. stripping away a fundamental

right women have enjoyed for 50 years. also the revealing of where the base of the republican party is today. host:■2 what does that mean for president biden as he goes on with his reelection campaign? guest: i think a lot of where they started to draw the contrast much more aggressively at the start of this year, since the election has sort of officially begun, is, this is not a traditional election choice between two parties. this is going to become framed as a choice between these maga extremists, who do not believe in what has made america america, which is the notion that people decide. that power resides with the people and we are a democracy. in which the way we decide elections is not through political violence, but through casting ballots. in the majority decides. that task ahead of joe biden and progressives is tonight that

anti-maga coalition, which includes republicans, independents, and democrats. one of the telltale signs from and seltzer, nbc news, and others over the weekend was 43 percent of nikki haley's voters say they would vote for joe biden. in 25% of people who said they were going to caucus said they would vote for someone other than try. it is now a minority in the republican party, but there is this faction of voters who did not feel comfortable with where maga wants to take the country. i think that is going to be an important part of the conversation. just looking back at the threats donald trump posed leaving a violent insurrection, stripping away the right to abortion, but what they will do going forward. i think that is going to be an important part of the conversation. host: if you want to talk to him about the results in iowa you can do that on the lines.

(202) 748-8000 free democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents, (202) 748-8002. it was nikki haley yesterday talking about not only her campaign, but also how it contrasted with president trump and president biden. i want you to listen to what she had to say and get your response. >> our campaign is the last best hope of stopping the trump-biden night air. [applause] but it is more than that. republicans have lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections. that is nothing to be proud of. we should earn the support of a majority of americans. [applause] all of the evidence says that if it is a trump-biden rematch it

is going to be another tossup election. it could go either way. we could have more disputes over election interference. and joe biden could win a game. -- win a game. with kamala harris waiting in the wings. lord help us if that happens. and then look at what happens when i goa -- when i go head-to-head against biden. [cheering] [applause] we win in a landslide. it is not even close. that means no recounts, no lawsuits, and no doubts. host: again, that is nikki haley. guest: i heard a few things that were revealing there. she is making a case that is,

the republican party has become a minority area and -- minor itarian party. so, it really has become a minority party. and donald trump is fine with that. he doesn't believe necessarily that elections should be decided by the majority. he only believes right now that the only elections that are legitimate are the ones that he wins. i think what is scary about that, he is not the only one that believes that anymore in the republican party. the second thing that i do not think was in this clip, but i wanted to call it out, she graciously, as candidates do, acknowledged trump's win and congratulated him. i thought was revealing about that is, you could hear a pin drop when she did that. normally even though you are going up against each other,

normally they are in the same party, you would hear people applaud politely, he won. it was so quiet. the level of discomfort, particularly among her supporters when she sort of acknowledged trump's win was revealing. to me the big question here really, not only for elected officials and voters, is, is power more important than, sort of, the country checkup -- the country? maintaining our core rights? a lot of people went along with donald trump because they were more interested in winning political power, which is really all that maga cares about. that same question that is going to be posed to voters is, is the party and political power more important than the country? host: we have callers lined up. sheila starts us off in ohio. the line for democrats. your first out. go ahead.

caller: good morning. i just wondered -- this is a procedural question. i wondered if colorado or maine or somebody kicked trump off the ballot, couldn't the republican party still nominate trump at the convention? you know, a couple of death threats, you see how trump has a tight hold on the congressmen and senators, the gop. it just seems like if they are a party couldn't they overcome that, and shouldn't he make sure he stays on the ballot somehow? thank you so much. guest: he sort of raised a couple of different things that i think are important. when is this challenge happening at the state level where in colorado you have the supreme court decide that donald trump, because he was involved in an insurrection, is not eligible to be on the ballot in maine because of the way the state laws work there.

the decision was made by the secretary of state, all of this looks like it is heading to the supreme court, obviously. i think most expect the supreme court to sort of decide on the side of donald trump, so preventing him from being removed from the ballot, given that he was involved in an insurrection. i think that is involved in a question you raised with your last guest which is, we have this nominating process, but the actual nominating process happens at the convention in july. and that is when trump officially becomes the republican nominee. i still think it is unlikely, given where the republican party is today, with the leadership of the republican party is, where the core of the base is, that anything different happens there. that is seven months from now. that is a long time away. trump could easily be convicted of multiple crimes by then. still hard to imagine given what

we saw last dynamo what we have seen for the last year, sort of the party rallying around him. but that is sort of the reality when he becomes the official nominee. host: you don't think it would slow his progress? guest: the convention or the court cases? host: the conviction. guest: i think they could. i think they could with the general electorate. would it slow his nomination? again, you should not be surprised, because it has been unfolding for 40 years now, but donald trump lost the election in 2020. that was before he led a violent insurrection that led to 150 police officers being injured, six dying. it was before the supreme court stripped away the right to an abortion in this country. so, i do think for the general election population he is actually going to be more popular. i am happy to talk through some of the polling at some point, but i think for his base it has made him only more popular.

i think in terms of the nomination he is likely to continue to be the nominee. host: talking about pulling in popularity. you have seen the averages when it comes to job approval for joe biden, and those numbers of disapproval. what do you think of those numbers, and does it show problems for president biden's reelection campaign? guest: there are two reasons driving that. one is, unfortunately most americans have heard very little about what president biden has accomplished, which is disheartening in terms of how we should be functioning in a democracy, people have -- having access to the same kinds of information. president biden, by historical measures, had two of the most productive years, particularly when it comes to investing in the middle class, passing the infrastructure buildout is going to create millions of jobs, rebuilding our manufacturing capacity in this country with chips, cle e

really, really exciting investments that are happening, and not just on the coats, but in the midwest. parts of the country we have seen all that out. -- hollowed out. he has taken the fight to the pharmaceutical companies for the first time. medicare will be allowed to negotiate the cost of prescription drugs. you were going to see costs for seniors come down. he is the first president to take on the pharmaceutical companies and win that battle. there is a lot of great stories. unfortunately i've seen an -- in a lot of focus groups a lot of americans have not seen those things. for a lot of americans prices are still really high. when you ask them how they feel about the economy, or in this case president biden's approval, i think it is a proxy of or whether they are feeling better in their own lives. that is why you have seen the president spinning a lot of time touting what he has got done, and what he wants to do to build

the middle-class, lower costs by standing up to corporate greed. macon's understand one of the reasons their costs are up was inflation, but that the other big driver of this is that corporations are making record profits. and by keeping prices really high. and at the end of the day the average american only cares how much they paid the pump, they pay at the grocery store. i think there is more work to do. a lot of great signs for president biden on that front, and for americans, which is that wages continue to rise higher than inflation. we are starting to see a lot of costs, including gas, come down. i think we are going to continue to see good times, but still a challenge for people hearing about these things. host: this is jody, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. yes, mr. nayak, maga is not

derogatory. that is make america great again. biden has put us in the toilet. in every single spectrum you could think of. number one, there was not an insurrection. who has been accused of insurrection? if president trump wanted an insurrection, do you think he would request 10,000 to 20,000 troops from the national guard on the day of his rally? do you really think he would say, peacefully and patriotically, go to the capital and make your voices heard a checkup does that sound like somebody who wants an insurrection? if i was going to rob a bank on thursday am i going to call the police on monday and say, you had better show up because i'm going to rob a bank? everything you said is ridiculous. you said that biden's cognitive

decline is a perception? a perception? the man can't complete a sentence. host: ok, call her. do you have a direct question for our guest or would you like to express that? caller: my direct question is, why are you lying to everybody? just like the mainstream media, all of the media. newspapers, everything. 97% of them are democrats. host: we will leave it there and let our guest respond. guest: i would say a couple of things to our caller, which is the challenge for that narrative when it comes to january 6 that is, we all watched it with our own eyes. i remember turning on the television set that afternoon and really being in disbelief that this was happening in america. that you had a group of maga supporters storming the capital, beat cops. you know, it was horrifying.

and with a very clear goal. they were trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. there is a reason they showed up on that day. it was not a random day. he was the day with the house and senate were voting to certify the election. this is important, because there are other actors in the maga coalition responsible. they showed up because josh harley -- josh hawley, ted cruz made clear they believed in the lies that the election was stolen, and there were going to challenge the election. that they were going to try to overturn the results of the election. it gave these protesters who believed the lies donald trump and others had been telling. the second thing is, there has been a lot of investigations by the january 6 committee, by the doj. there are over 900 people who have led guilty and been convicted. all sorts of crimes.

the record there is really clear. the point i was going to make is that all of this evidence has now come forward of what republican leaders actually thought during those few hours. they were horrified. they were calling donald trump, urging him to do something, and he refused. i think for a lot of people that was sort of the breaking point when his culpability really kind of sort through the roof, which is not just that he assembled the crowd, told him it was going to be wild, sent them to the capitol knowing they were armed. but that while they were involved in this violence he sat on his hands. he let america be attacked and did nothing. that is sort of where the majority of americans, the vast majority of americans feel very uncomfortable with maga's willingness to commit violence to win elections. host: let's hear from joyce in illinois, independent line.

you are going to have to turn down your television, please. i'm going to put you on hold. let's hear from carl. carl in arkansas. hello, republican line. caller: hello. thanks for getting me on. my first question for this man here is, are you a democrat? do you consider yourself a democrat or a republican, an independent, or nothing? now, you have all of the opinions -- you lied right off the hand they are talking about january 6. you said they were armed. there were not armed. not a single person armed -- was the police officer that executed this -- ms. babbit.

they probably destroyed the film of that, which the january 6 did not investigate anything. and let's go back to president trump. like the lady before said, he asked them to peacefully and orderly go to the capitol and make their voices be heard, which is -- and also another thing. he actually tried to get national guard there. and nancy pelosi, the so-called democrats -- which, i do not call them democrats, lct's, going by their actions. host: do you have a direct question for our guest? caller: our first question was, does he consider himself a democrat, republican, or independent? guest: the organization i work for is nonpartisan.

you're obviously a center-left organization, so we tend to push policies that immigrants often align themselves with. i'm not uncomfortable saying that personally i am a democrat, but i think the thing that is reflected there by the two republican collars we have is how much they sort of, you know, have bought into the same sort of narrative, which is that donald trump has no culpability, that there is no accountability for anything. the one thing i'm fairly confident in is that if barack obama or joe biden, god for bid, had assembled a crowd that had committed the worst act against law enforcement since 9/11 -- and we had seen windows smashed in the capital, and, you know, police officers and authorities died, they would not feel like there was no accountability that should be had there. and that kind of underscores, unfortunately, how there is this small wing of the country -- and it still is a minority, which we

have to take heart in -- that they have believed this alternative narrative about what january 6 was. i will point again, elise stefanik, who is a leader in the republican house caucus, two weeks ago said these people who had committed these crimes on january 6 were hostages. right? she was trying to turn the tables, suggesting that people who not only engaged in political violence and have now been convicted of crimes, right? more than 900 people have either pled guilty or been convicted of crimes. she sort of used -- views them as patriots and hostages, somehow. that is a warped view for the vast majority of americans. whether there majority turns out is the challenge, to make sure we continue to have people who stand up to this extremism, this willingness to commit political violence. host: you were director of opinion research for hillary

clinton's campaign. on the larger issue of messaging you talked about president biden's approval ratings. which of the campaign do as far as messaging is concerned, to communicate a different message there? guest: there is a few different things. one is, our communications environment is so much more fractured that a lot of people can live in their own bubble. i think a couple of the last collars reinforce that idea, that you can sort of have a vision of reality, and be really shielded from a lot of information that is obvious to the vast majority of americans. i do think as more americans start to pay attentn election ta real benefit to the biden campaign. i think that is one dynamic that will keep shifting. but i think it was made clear in a lot of ways that there are two pieces to this. one is this notion that our rights and freedoms are at stake in this country. both in the freedom to vote, the

freedom, obviously, for women to have control over their own bodies in the doctor's office. and the other big conversation they are going to drive his being focused on building this middle class in this country. joe biden is -- everything he has done, the investments he has made, the fights he has taken on what pharmaceutical -- on what pharmaceutical companies have been trying to grow the middle class in this country. that is how we grow a strong economy in this country. i think you will see them contrasting really starkly with donald trump's, you know, focus on helping the wealthy. his biggest accomplishment when he was president camino, even trump would admit this, was a huge $2 trillion tax cut that disproportionately benefited corporations, disproportionately benefited the wealthy, and had very little benefit for working and average americans.

i think you will see that contrast be a core part of the story in the next nine months. host: i want to show you a headline from politico. talks about jim clyburn talking about his concerns over biden's reelection campaign, particularly among possibly losing african-american voters. some are saying he is losing hispanic voters. and people say that, what is the reaction? guest: i think we have to take it seriously. the stakes in this election are so grave and critical that, you know, i don't get over-concerned in the sense that the skies falling and donald trump is going to win. there are nine months to remind americans what the stakes are and communicate to them not only what joe biden has gotten done, but just as importantly what joe biden and democrats want to do going forward, right? they have to continue to paint this picture of what america looks like under a biden-harris administration in a second term. i think you are going to see a

lot of that rollout in the next do in the future. to restore a lot of rights that have been taken away, and at the same time contrast that not only with what maga have done in the past, but things could get a lot worse, right? there is a real threat of a national ban on abortion. to this point the courts have stripped away that right, but the core of the republican party's maga wants to passing national -- once to pass a national ban on abortion. there is a lot of risk about what america looks like under a second trump. host: our guest is navin nayak. we will hear next from terry in california. democrats line. you are up next. caller: good morning, mr. nayak. i totally agree with what you are saying. first and foremost, the one thing i would love to have happen here in this country is that we bring back the law, or

-- business, i'm so sorry. i'm so nervous. we need to bring back the fairness doctrine in media. because a lot of this misreporting is coming from that. and if people would actually stop and look -- i mean, we all saw what happened on january 6. they had a hangman's noose out there. how could you say that was peaceful? people ran for their lives. they are all trying to rewrite history. the other thing i want to bring out is, make america great again, or maga. get a lawyer. has done nothing but increase our costs. the fact that procter & gamble

plays less in a percentage of taxes than i do as an individual is frightening. if people would see that because of the tax cuts they gave them, that is continuing to drive up our deficit. because we as an individual worker cannot pay back all of the percentages that this man has given procter & gamble, coca-cola, all of these large corporations. the other thing i want to say is, cognitive decline -- i love it. the current, or former, president, he thinks he is running against obama. there is something wrong with that. obama was, what, 2008, 2016? host: caller, thanks. put a lot out there for our guest. we will let him respond. guest: thank you for the call. you know, trump sort of campaigned as a populist. folks may forget this, but in 2016 he made grand promises that

he was going to raise taxes on the wealthy, he promised he was going to stand up to the pharmaceutical companies. not only did that not happen, the opposite happened, right? he actually cut taxes for corporations, a huge reduction in the corporate tax rate, which sent prophets for ceos, for shareholders, for the wealthy skyrocketing. and has continued to raise costs. it is not like that corporate tax cut resulted in any lower costs for any -- for everyday americans. that is one of the contrast you are going to see in this election. joe biden is committed to asking corporations to paying their fair share, and make sure they stop price gouging consumers, that they stop ripping off consumers. donald trump, despite his rhetoric, actually governed in the exact opposite direction, which is wealthy people like

himself. he had the opportunity to raise taxes on the wealthy, to close loopholes. he consciously decided not to do that, sort of enrich himself and make sure the elite wealthy victim -- benefit from our tax code. host: philip is in ohio. you are next. caller: thank you for taking my call. mr. nayak, i have one question for you. you talk about the tax breaks for the wealthy. how much taxes did joanne hunter pay when he was selling his vice presidency to all of the communists around the world? and also, now we know who started the hillary steele dossier. thank you for your work on the communists' part. guest: i think that is sort of a reflection of a lot of where maga and the republican party are right now, which is really

trafficking in conspiracy theories, trafficking in a politics of retribution, a politics of divisiveness. you know, donald trump had said if he gets elected a second term he would be his supporters' retribution. that his priority would be going after the people he thinks each -- that he thinks tried to hold him accountable. that is a really disheartening place for our country. we really do have big problems we need to tackle in this country, and when you have one party that is, you know, living in a world of conspiracy theories, is not really interested in talking about some of the solutions and policy proposals, i think it makes it hard for everyday room -- for everyday americans. i think that is part of their strategy. your role people's confidence that democracy can improve the lives of people. you get more and more americans who are willing to jettison democracy. i think there has been a lot of data in the past few months that i think we should take to heart.

which is, how many republicans are telling pollsters it would be comfortable getting rid of democracy and embracing an authoritarian or dictator style to governing? that is a disheartening thing for america. i think that is an important reminder of what the stakes are in this election. it is not necessarily -- although donald trump is promising to be a dictator on day one. it is going to be, either way, continued erosion of the rights and -- rights of the majority, for people to decide where this country goes. host: when you hear the former president say things like that, do you take him literally? guest: he tried to be a comedian who says things as an entertainer, and i think it is really important that we actually take everything he wants to say literally when it comes to his willingness to jettison, sort of, not only norms, which he jettisoned a

long time ago, but actually rules. the fact that he does say he is willing to suspend the constitution. in fact that he still works at january 6 as a beautiful day, and that there was a great day and he wants to pardon the people involved in that political violence. i think americans have to take that seriously. it is the only thing we have to go on. host: we have been talking about the presidential election, what are your thoughts on the prospect of the house and senate changing, and what that could mean if president biden wins another term? if former president trump wins another term? guest: typically we have increasingly gone to a polarized election in this country. what i mean is, you have fewer and fewer americans generally splitting their ticket, meaning voting for one party at the top and a different party at the bottom. i think probably very likely if democrats win the presidency they will win the house. the senate is more complicated

because of the math. democrats have to defend two really key senate seats in states that donald trump is likely to win. ohio and montana. i think there two phenomenal candidates that defy traditional partisanship there, you know, who i think have really represented the values and priorities of their constituents in that state. so i think democrats have a real good chance in those seats. then i think there is a whole other set of races that are in presidential battlegrounds like wisconsin and pennsylvania, arizona. the expectation, we have been seeing this pretty consistently, is whatever happens at the top of the ticket carries down to the bottom of the ticket. so, i think there is a you know, depending on what happens at the top of think democrats, you know, most prognosticators put it at a 50% chance of having a trifecta. -- 15% chance of having a

trifecta. and the same on the other side. donald trump doesn't up winning there is a real risk that republicans and maga would have a trifecta as well. that is where the threat of cutting social security becomes really real. the threat of a ban on abortion becomes really real. further curtailing voting rights, and the freedom to vote. free and fair elections. all of that genuinely becomes a threat if republicans have a trifecta. host: one more call. this will be from pennsylvania. hi. caller: good morning and god bless you. i think somebody is missing the issue. the people are not, that i talked to, they are not voting for what happened four years ago. let me back up here a minute. people want life to have value again. they want an and to the perfidious nest and nihilism

causing hate and division. i use an example. the young people that tried to break into the white house this weekend. i don't think they realize this would not have been january 6. the top of that white house has more firepower than the police force. young people would have died. they would have died because they were taught to hate. the resolution to their hate is violence. we want to vote to have peace restored, and i holism -- nihilism to end. host: thanks. guest: one thing i think i agree with her on his the election cannot just be about january 6.

january 6 is something we have to take seriously. people involved in perpetrating it have plans for what happens in the future. it would have been a different moment today if you had had a republican party led by folks who said, oh boy, things got out of control. political violence is totally inappropriate. but we continue to see them defend what happened on that day, continue to believe that political violence is acceptable. at the time, speaker pelosi's husband was attacked just before the midterms. you had a lot of members of maga mocking that incident and pretending it was just a joke that somebody tried to kill the speaker of the house. they continue to believe that political violence is acceptable if it allows them to get power.

it is not that we are trying to relitigate the past. we still have the leadership of the republican party today who continue to believe that that was a good thing, that political violence is justified if it allows you to overturn an election and claim power. host: our guest's website is americanprogress.org. navin nayak