against the legislation, including height of the significant amount of work by those on both sides of the aisle to reach agreement. my friends on ways and means. it is critical for job growth, for economic growth. critical for the well-being of our country. numerous businesses in texas and around the country. understanding the importance of provisions, interest provisions, research and development. unfortunately, as happens in this town, this legislation comes with provisions that the people i represent are tired of. it is provisions, continue to expand the welfare state, as the wall street journal editorialized about by expending

-- expanding child tax credits that will fund people directly through refundable credits, which we find to be problematic. we think undermines the kind of economic activity an incentive to work and incentive to produce value we think is kotek the important. >> i'm pleased to welcome you to today's forum for discussion on women's rights in afghanistan to introduce the speaker i'm pleased to welcome ambassador mark green director, president center. amb. green: even though i cannot be at the center today technology means it -- makes it impossible to join you.

she holds a very special place in the hearts of all of us here at the wilson center. she is the founding director of our middle east program and she led that team from 1998 to 2015. this series on his her commitment to promoting women's empowerment and rights globally, but particularly in the middle region. madeleine albright inaugurated the series in 2017. it has featured senator chris van hollen, undersecretary general and exec at his secretary of the u.n. and social commission for the western hemisphere and ambassador malan verbier. the wilson center is unique in foreign policy. we are professionally chartered, scholarship driven, and fiercely nonpartisan and independent.

that special status brings with it certain obligations. to not give the gate what others are doing, but instead to prioritize the most important issues and opportunities and to try to do so where we can add value and make a difference. this year's topic, advocacy for afghan women's rights on the global stage, is critical to our work here in the center and to the policy community at large and is very much something that have. women represent a powerful locus of change. whether the helmand government, civil society, or the private sector, women play a critical role in preventing conflict,, building peace and sustaining prosperity -- building peace, and sustaining prosperity. it is growing worse by the day. they further restrict the ability to work, travel, and access basic health care services. millions of afghans are facing

food and water insecurity and the risk of disease. with women and girls bearing the brunt of these effects. alleviate their plight? how can the international community uphold women's rights? to discussh@ these questions and more i'm delighted to introduce our speaker and a longtime friend, ambassador paula dobriansky. she's currently a senior fellow at harvard university and under secretary of state for global affairs during the bush administration. she's the founding chair of the u.s.-afghan women's council, an organization aiming to reach out to afghan women and provide an opportunity for them to advance their priorities, including education, health, economic empowerment, and rule of law. during her time in government she supported the creation of the vatican university event yet -- american university of

afghanistan thank you kalus girls and women the chance to

leave comments or questions we will be collecting for the cumin day session -- q&a session. let's start with a critical topic. it is no longer in the headlines. there is a lot going on around the world, particularly in the middle east and north africa region. we wanted to shed light on what's happening in afghanistan. since the taliban's takeover almost t a seen the rights of afghan girls and women regress. so many restrictions and the mentation's on their movement and their presence -- limitations on their movement and presence. you're working to ensure they have access to education. where are we today? how does this bode for the future of the country? amb. dobriansky: first, i want to thank ambassador green, mark green.

i want to thank you and the wilson center for inviting me. when i received your invitation and they said it is the forum, when can i be signed up? it is a privilege and an honor to be part of this forum. if i may, pay tribute to you. you are someone who has stood so staunchly for the rights of all, but not only for the all but women also in particular. iranian women, afghan women, others repressed across the globe. may i take a moment and i would like to first applaud you. [applause] just thank you. ambassador green mentioned in his words hope. hope. you had courage and

standing up to tearing and repression. it is important and you are certainly one of those individuals. thank you for all you have done. merissa, to answer your question, tragically the situation is very bad. there have been very draconian measures, abusive measures taken against afghan women. instead of witnessing any kind of improvement, it is the opposite. to say a few words about what's going on in the recent reports. in terms of education and thinking about where afghan women were before in terms of the level well beyond the one through k and high school, then university. now, girls can only attend school through age 12. paul r repressed. education is severely cut and

the night. i ntvery significantly, there ae reports of arbitrary detention and arrests. a lot of them are founded on the so-called -- whether it is appropriate or not appropriately on an individual. that is what i use the word arbitrary arrests and attention. there have been many young women, and even at age 16 who have been pulled aside and beaten and detained and threatened because of so-called not wearing their hijab properly. it is striking in terms of health care. if you have a male a company you , you might well make it to a health care facility. if you are unmarried, there have been a number of reports that you are very much subjected to

arbitrary detention and great brutality. you may never make it actually to a health care facility. in that sector as well we have witnessed what has been cast as mental health issues. this brings up also about women, women in the workforce. those that have to really be out into the outside at all. there have been very substantial numbers of cases of mental health issues because of being unfairly confined and not having any exposure to the outside world and life. in that sense that is very, very serious and quite detrimental. by the way, think about it. it is very judgmental -- detrimental to the future of afghanistan. for a workforce he cannot only have men.

years ago there was an arab -- arab-u.n. report that talked about any country depriving half its citizens re-would not survive. there are economy would not be able to flourish. we have witnessed the egregious impact here not only on women in afghanistan but also the economy. it is gender apartheid. it's being -- gender apartheid that it is being cast as. let me mention a report did talk about the unmarried women, did talk about the cases of mental health cases, and did talk about the kind of draconian repressive measures that have the very -- been very widespread and impacting any kind of substantial growth in terms of

educational and the educational ranks. what does this verb -- four bode? -- forbode for the future of afghanistan? not well for the future of the citizens re-at large. -- citizenry at large. when they were reporting on any sectors were women surface, the one sector is a little in the economy qualified. women can actually be engaged in small businesses but from their homes in terms of embroidery, in terms of any kind of contribution that may be a small self generated business like sewing, embroidery, things like that. it might be contributing a bit to the economy. as far as ngo involvement, the record shows no.

there is repression and actual, no, you cannot be engaged. in terms of humanitarian efforts, yes to some extent. a little bit where women are also working in health care facilities. yet the irony that others cannot even -- mothers cannot make it to health care and have access. what is it forbode? it is not good. it is not good for the health of the society. it is not good for economic growth. by the way, in terms of what the taliban itself said and professed at the very outset, it really is against the statements they made about trying to be more open, more integrative. we have not witnessed that it all. it's been the opposite. knock it. -- not good. merissa: this has been already defined as gender apartheid. ■fit is one of our afghan fellos

wrote a piece about that. i think he is with us here today. we are talking more about who was at the helm at various levels of government and the u.s.-afghan women's council to ensure women are not only protected but also have equal access to education, the workforce. we see a lot of role models. a lot had to be evacuated. there has been so much progres before the withdrawal of u.s. troops. how can the united states and other allies who invested so much in these efforts ensure the programs continue with all these restrictions in place? amb. dobriansky: this is an important question and i relished you asking me that question. you have to give me a moment. my answer will be longer on this one. i really want to give a full and

robust answer. it is a key one. first a word about the u.s.-afghan women's council. it was born at the outset of thinking about the seizure of mazar-e-sharif and when there was an attempt to help afghanistan. we all witnessed seeing on tv women in burqas. let the record was during the previous period of the taliban. then, if you will, a liberation. the opportunity for growth in afghanistan. from that standpoint the u.s.-afghan women's council was born at that time. you mentioned it but i want to underscore it. afghan women were very decisive. they said we know what we want. we what education. number one is the issue. work with us on growing that and access to education for young boys but especially for young

girls and at all levels, not just a younger level. secondly, the issue of health care. the maternal mortality rate was so high. here there was tremendous progress in that area. third was entrepreneurship. i remember my first visit afghanistan. we only met a few women who actually were in mazar-e-sharif. they were starting this micro lending. the second visit i made there, we met with over 100 women at our embassy who came in. they had all kinds of businesses. it showed a given the opportunity woman will seizeilld they did indeed. there was the issue of -- i will put it in civil society but it is government, rule of law. i was shown a picture of women judges. there were many women who were women judges before.

women wanted to be back into law. they wanted to be in the parliament. they wanted to have a stake in the future and decision-making of afghanistan. later also came a collaboration on youth. the u.s.-afghan counsel was very focused on that. it has been very engaged. i want to say why an organization like that matters. it matters because it brings together a lot of organizations, both throughout the united states, abroad, and even some that are still working internally in afghanistan as best they can. i do want to recognize debbie holland. if you will just raise your hand. she's the executive director of u.s.-afghan women's council at georgetown university. our honorary chairs are former first lady laura bush and hillary clinton.

we have the president of georgetown university? joya -- jack dejoya. we have an arm to arm with jack. we also have in the state department, which is important, the international women's office. gita row gupta, also a coach or. all-important. that actually keeps it very focused on programs. what are we doing? how can we move things forward? it is not only at home but also abroad. second, there are some official positions that i think are absolutely key here. one is in the state department. in addition to the ambassador and head of the international women's office there is a special representative dealing with afghanistan completely. many of you know her.

she was in delhi with us. very -- doha with us. she is working with americans and others. she is also in the middle east. also pounding the pavement. she was at the doha forum trying to bring this issue for. i want to miss and the u.n. the u.n. secretary general also appointed a woman who i knew years ago who was foreign minister of uzbekistan. she's the representative. she just spoke at a very targeted way about the stigma of mental health and why we should be tackling it. they tried to do their best and keeping the issue in the spotlight. as you pointed out, it is hard. why i asked for the extra time. i brought a list. you can't imagine how many are still working in afghanistan. i want to share this.

i mentioned there are u.s.-afghan women councilmembers. one woman, she runs a made by afghan women. very inspirational. it is hard but they work within the confines. condo hard treasure -- condo she is there. she runs the hospital that, by the way, does have approval in is run by women. it is very helpful. the afghan institute of learning. enlighten a mind. all of these deal with education, health. the eagles online academy. i wanted you to hear this. is a lot of activity going on. they are working up against great barriers. uplift afghan fund.

i know here in d.c. many of us know it. they focus on youth in particular. the next generation. turquoise mountain has been there. i had the privilege of going when i went to afghanistan years ago and watching the handicraft, bringing back the beauty of afghan culture. it was amazing to us. leslie schweitzer, who runs the friends of the american university in afghanistan. she pounds the pavement and does go to afghanistan. dealing with doha because the university had to transfer to doja. pounds the pavement and keeps it in front. relief international. all these are inside afghanistan. three i want to mention, and i will stop, the working in the u.s. i want to mission the bush center. george w. bush and also misses bush. and through the -- mrs. bush in

dallas, texas. they have focused on this issue. you know what they have established? they have established in afghan-iranian women's coalition. they are going to try to connect in country and out of country both. why is it important? they feel both movements should unite. the diasporas in both cases and those inside should unite and be very strong. in putting forward ideas, recommendations, and really getting notoriety for what they are trying to achieve for women. they will be having a big launch here in washington in may on the issue. i'm very excited about that initiative. i also might mention the u.s.-afghan women's council also has almost a launch on these university educational network of afghan women. the networks and online can be

helpful. there is the georgetown institute for women's peace and security. they are doing phenomenal work. the woman for afghan women -- the women for afghan women. i'm scratching the surface. i don't know if i hit every one. there is a lot going on. everyone needs to continue the to work -- continue the work in thirdly, it's absolutely essential to get the media. it is true. it has been on the back burner. it has not been front and center. it deserves to be front and center. there are so many stories of courage. many stories about what -- by the way, individuals in the united states who have no connection whatsoever to afghanistan came and got involved in forging businesses

years ago and have stuck with it. those are stories i know people will be heartened by. that gives hope. that gives incentive. that gives a kind of camaraderie of spirit that i think will last and last and overtake the current crisis and tragedy that has befallen afghanistan. merissa: thank you for shedding light on these efforts that are still ongoing. continuity and sustainability is key to that. i know the afghan girls and women are grateful for what the united states does and a lot of these organizations do and other countries in the west. there is muslim majority countries that should play an important role. countries like saudi arabia, qatar, united arab emirates and others have made significant

progress in their own countries when it comes to not only education and maternal health but even the workforce. in saudi arabia, just in the last two years they managed to increase female labor participation to over 30%, which is very impressive because it is a very quick leap. what role can these muslim majority countries play to basically influence or dialogue with the taliban to ensure women are not only acted but have protected but have access to equal rights? amb. dobriansky: great question. one more footnote on the issue about all of these groups. you know what's important here? i will say it is that the women in afghanistan, those who were there also feel inspired and

motivated. the connectivity is absolutely essential, becauseare not forgotten. even with small projects. even with whether it is the embroidery. there are women -- there is this rug initiative. i want to underscore that. i know if i can give one example, i worked a great deal when we had the soviet union. i am will never forget when nathan sharanski came to the united states during the reagan administration. the first thing he said to president reagan when he was released? he said, i was in the gulags for so long that i information, i heard nothing, but sometimes people would slip to me your speeches, or you

would say something about me and about our movement. that gave me the motivation that i must continue, i must overcome the current hardships. in that sense i know afghan women are very strong, very resilient. i wanted to say that all of them who are working, whether in afghanistan or outside, that lifeline is so key. also, the work are governmental officials are doing, the ones i mentioned. middle east. very important question. the answer is an absolute resoundi yyes. they have a pivotal role. let me start with this and i'm going to underscore what you said and bring it back to halla. we had at the state department during my time meeting of women from tid east and a discussion and the majority

there were muslim women. these were women. somewhere representing representatives of the governments. the discussion was on the issue about human rights worldwide. you know what? there was an issue about arthur projects that could be done that really have impacts and those in the middle east can make a difference? the wilson center was really ahead of the curve. halla wrote a monograph on sharia law. it has various chapters looking at countries, not just in the middle east but worldwide. isn't it remarkable you can have sharia law and at the same time be a democracy? you don't have to be repressive. you don't have to suppress culture. all of that is just wrong. out right wrong. never -- outright wrong.

i was co-chair and we had the head of the women's ministry at the time. we also had a male, the foreign minister. true story. we were at this meeting. when he was asked the question, what other projects you think are important? he said this monogram. why is it translated? we worked to do that. that is an where countries on the outside who have such knowledge in particular. you have that insight. you have that conductivity. the monograph brought in affected voices from the various muslim-based countries. click answer is yes -- the answer is yes. thirdly, i think of the friends

of the american university of afghanistan. qatar has brought in that university. we had the privilege of going to meet with them, which is very hard rendering, and hearing not only young women but young men who have professional aspirations and want to advance themselves. i think that's an important step on the part of qatar and bringing in these refugees, housing them, giving them that type of opportunity. i would like to see other countries also do the same throughout the middle east. i would also would also welcomeu said, those that can and fact also bring these issues to the . in this case, i think a lot of the women who have made great strides, the connectivity with the women of afghanistan would absolutely be crucial. the state department has tried to hold some for rom, bringing

them together. i like the fact that through the bush center they are bringing together afghan iranian women in this case through the diaspora and also for those inside. yes, yes, yes, there are so many ways of doing it. i want to commend you in the middle east program here. the fact that you are holding this today. the fact that this has also been a spotlight for you, integrated into i think you have also come in your own context, have pushed this agenda with middle eastern countries. their voice can carry volumes and is really crucial at this particular time. merissa: thank you for that. you mentioned the new group joining afghan and iranian women. this remind me of when the iranian protests were taking place after the death of mahsa amini.

i was amazed that even at a time when the taliban had started to increase their detentions and repressive measures, university women stood up and protested in support of their iranian colleagues, sisters, friends. that, to me, was fascinating to see. they are still willing tonp risk everything, knowing how high the stakes are. amb. dobriansky: also in discussions, official discussions, i think it has also been very important, this issue has been integrated u.s. official discussions about whether with our interlocutors about the middle east, with our representatives, thinking about tom west, his "outreach" to taliban.

it is always front and center. the tragedy there, the movement on that front has only been so much, but the answer is, should that be stopped? no. you have to be persistent, it has to be sustained. butted up -- but it is also these kinds of action that matter and take a moment to acknowledge, the scale and scope, despite the repression, i am not saying they are moving mountains, but they are there trying to do their best, to have a presence, and to do what they can to still engage, engage afghan women and push the dial forward. merissa: it's ve ispeaking of te are of course various opinions on the international arena, whether the taliban should be reengaged, relations should be

normalized as a way to basically talk to the more moderate factions, individuals and influence some of their policies which so far have seem to just target girls and women. where do you stand on this? i know where you stand on this but tell all of us where you stand on this, and why. amb. dobriansky: i would be delighted. i stand very firmly against it. and i will tell you why i stand against it. then i want to s few more details about it and the debate on both sides. the reason why i personally stand against it is because i don't generally believe that by actually normalization of the relationship that we will get results. already i know that u.s. officials have worked rather hard actually to engage and to

actually try and move and promote this along. there has been no traction, number one. secondly, there are those that give the argument, if you do this, you give legitimization. i am going to say, fair enough. i think that is a point to be made. but to me, what is more important, if you actually think there will be taible, concrete actions, and i really don't see it, and i think there have been some really strong efforts of testing the waters, trying to see if that could be pushed forward. i am not the kind, especially when you diplomatically do t wan discussion. if we do this, what can we expect? we have seen actually, thinking about the promises that were made by the taliban, and not only have they not been lived up

to but it is the opposite, actual regression. i don't see that as the solution here, quite frankly. let me give the other side. there are those that have argued very forcefully for this. by the way, i mentioned rosa. i happen to notice that when she was asked this question, the u.n. secretary general's rep said i'm not worried about legitimization. we should make it a part of our discourse. it already is a part of the discourse. it is, definitely is. in every "official" engagement, and not just with us but multilaterally, in so many different arenas, if you will. i don't see that that is the solution. the solution, quite frankly, is for a change there. we have seen when there is a

change what are the opportunities that can befall. sema, the first minister of women's affairs, also for 17 years handling the human rights issues for afghanistan, looking at it internally and reporting on afghanistan human rights. during the 17 years of looking from karzai forward. she wrote a book recently called "outspoken. she has been asked the question outright and didn't hesitate for one minute. she said the answer is no. if i thought we could actually do something here, of course, i would look at any opportunity, anyway. but the answer is no. there is nothing that this kind of normalization will produce in terms of really a normalization

of women's lives there. merissa: the government of qatar has officially been asked by the u.s. government to be the interlocutor. we have also seen those efforts unfortunately have not gone anywhere because they ended up, as you mentioned, did what they wanted to do. it seems that is the number one issue on their agenda. ambassador, you mentioned the american university of afghanistan. you are one of the key individuals that was also there for the opening, when the first stone was basically put there. as you mentioned, we met both male and female students in doha. i was struck by how brave and hopeful they were. but what is the future of the university?

we have a number of students in doha, thanks to the government of qatar, very generous of them to do that, but there are others, particularly women, who are not able to go. what is the future of this university? how can we also help keep that hope that a lot of these young afghans we met represented alive? amb. dobriansky: first, one comment about the university itself and when it was thriving in afghanistan. one statement i will never forget made by an afghan young lady. she was asked the question, why are you going to the university of afghanistan, the american university of afghanistan, when you could go to the madrasa down the street which is free? american university is not free. she said the fundamental fact is, the other might be free but

it is not free in what it teaches. in terms of what i want to do, freedom of my own mind, my own thoughts, i want to go to the american university of afghanistan and do what i want to do. many of them had to pay. i want to mention that, to remind oneself of that. first, thanks go to qatar for the fact that it acted quickly in bringing them in. it is thriving there. those that were able to get out there, i think they have opportunities. there is also known in doha education city where there are number of universities. georgetown has one, texas a&m. i don't remember all of them but there are five or six. those also provi opportunities for them to also matriculate into and connect with. but what is the future here?

i will pick out not just the american university of afghanistan, but everything i said about this focus on education. the fact that education is a priority issue. it was always for afghan women, still is. in this case, like this university educational network, the online network, the afghan women's council has set up, that is very key. also, by the way, she also does, it is targeted, but she gives opportunities online. there are those that are also in the region, those that left afghanistan but are in india, some in pakista there, th ere there are programs that try to continue that forward.

it is hard but there are ways to connect and ensure that education is front and center, and there are some programmatic opportunities. is it ideal? no. by the way, what has happened to the american university of afghanistan? it is occupied by the taliban. there are no courses there. it is not the vibrant university it once was what you saw young women and men. i remember meeting the first female president of the student body there. you don't have any of that. you have to work on the ways of connecting in and giving them opportunities on the outside, on the inside. the american university is one means but not the only. merissa: if you remember in our meeting with the students back in december, one of the female students said she is taking her key learnings from some of the courses she is takin whatsapp g,

transferring knowledge to those that didn't have the opportunity to leave afghanistan. like you said, these are very small efforts, but they are bigger than what they look like because of the impact. amb. dobriansky: what you just identified is also crucial here during this period, absolutely. it is like the trainer of the trainer of the trainer, have that impact. it is so essential, crucial. going back to the network being established, a key one, as well. women feel integrated, see others, and then it grows and grows. but this isn't number one priority, 100%, for afghan women. merissa: thank you, ambassador. i am going to switch gears a little bit from afghanistan. i think this is a quesonve to al

women in foreign policy, insecurity. -- in security. you are one of the most accomplished women in this sector. many other young women who also aspired to be in leadership additions in diplomacy, foreign policy. what can you tell us about your journey? what advice can you give to some of the younger women about the importance of having women leaders particularly in diplomacy? amb. dobriansky: thank you. wonderful question. i would say there are several principles at least that have guided me in terms of my own career. the first is, get involved in what you enjoy and are passionate about. i did my undergraduate work at georgetown and i initially wanted to be premed. my sister, my father, my mother

was an educator. they said, no, try the school of foreign service at georgetown. they said you will not lose out on anything, go for it. i got into that and it was my passion. i realized i loved that. i just felt drawn to that, having that connectivity with other societies, other cultures, other histories. i never looked back. that is my first. my second is also don't be deterred by any barriers or obstacles. all of us, male or female, in our lives have come up against barriers. in that sense, my own mother, diana got to know my mother. she met my mother in her 90's, my mother being in her 90's. she was very feisty and had a rule of thumb.

if something turned you down, think of another way in. just plow forward. sometimes that works, sometimes it didn't. but i like that inspiration. don't get knocked down and withdraw. be resilient. in that sense, i think that was a rule of thumb for me, really inspired me in my own career. when young women asked me the question, did you have certain cases where you felt discriminated against because you were a female? the irony and the interesting thing -- the answer is no to that. actually, a number of my mentors were males who actually moved me along in my career. you mentioned madeleine albright, someone who also had an impact in different ways in my life, we had a commonality of interest. i am of ukrainian descent, she is of czech background.

what was a barrier for me was age. i worked at the white house national security council, i was brought in at the age of 24. d]i was on the full staff. actually the issue was age, saying i have this experience. i could bring this to the forefront. i was very lucky indeed, there during the reagan administration, and the various national security advisor's believed strongly that you couldn't only have those that were well experienced but you have new thinking integrated in. i loved that about them. all the ones that were there during tt seven years, through x national security advisor's, so i will say all of them had that rule of thumb. those were some of the factors. be passionate. if you are passionate about what you do and enjoy it, that will further you.

don't be deterred by hard knocks. don't feel discriminated by age. lastly, i would say, it's also important for you to know your brief. in that sense, it is not just forgive me for advancing because you are a female, but really know your brief, embrace it, show that you have it and know it. those are some of the things that have moved me along. may i mentioned a madeleine albright story? i remember often, she would mention this funny story. this is also advice to younger women. she said, sometimes i am down, in an interagency meeting, all of these men and may me and another woman. i will give an idea and then nobody says anything. and then another guy, another

official says the same thing that i said. she said, boy, that bothered me. the other guy goes on and says, joe is exactly right, and it is like i never even said it. she said, you know what saddened me? my female colleague didn't join in. come on, women. you have to support each other. it was interesting that she said that. whatever setting it is, academia, think tank, government, it's important to actually speak up and hope that there is this kind of network, camaraderie where women are really fending for themselves and advancing the careers of one another. merissa: thank you for that very important advice. it is time to turn to questions from our audience. if you do have a question,

please raise your hand and identify yourself. i will also be taking questions from our online audience. we have a few. amb. dobriansky: by the way, if she doesn't identify, diana negroponte, a real force on behalf of women. we had the privilege of serving together on the freedom house board. you have done so much for human rights worldwide. >> amb. dobriansky, thank you for introducing me. afghanistan has an area of leverage for women, and that is foreign investment. where is the mary barra of the automobile, the truck, the industries which afghanistan needs, and we have shown can be led by women? you focused on the grassroots,

and we will keep at it, but let's look for business leaders who, through their industries, can enter into afghanistan. amb. dobriansky: you are 100% as usual. diane is 100% correct in what she is saying. absolutely correct. i will say there is a challenge inside afghanistan, clearly now that there is not that kind of opportunity, but that doesn't mean that there are not women entrepreneurial leaders. you did hear me also mention how, my first visit, we only met with a few micro lenders. when i came back, they were 100 women. they owned the lumber business. another one with a concrete factory. kite store. it went on. there were these crown women owners -- proud women owners.

tragically, to all of that, frankly, as i mentioned, by all accounts of the u.n. agencies going in and reporting on what is going on, the only women entrepreneurs, where you have a fraction of movement, they are doing it from their homes, not the outside. women have been pulled out of being in the work environment. yes, you are correct. i think there was going to be that movement forward. in fact, there was a federation of women business owners that actually did get quet only public funding but private funding. i believe that is the wave of the future inside. outside, by the way, there are many accomplished afghan women. i mentioned a number of organizations.

miriam biyat. i mentioned manisa. these are afghan women who are making a difference. ■&it is giving that chance and opportunity even on the outside more so. they will have an impact. you are correct to bring that into the mix. entrepreneurship and economic progress certainly breeds leverage, without a doubt. that is the one little space where there is some give for afghan women, albeit in a very confined way. thank you. merissa: rob? senior vice president here at the wilson center. amb. dobriansky: also well known here and at georgetown. >> thank you, paula, for being here today, and merissa, for organizing this with our wonderful colleague.

i was curious, can you discuss the role of the diaz perera community -- diaspora community? i remember meeting the afghan women's robotics team. what will happen after, they are being trained, so are they country or the countries where they are currently residing? amb. dobriansky: thank you for asking the question. 100% crucial, critical. they are playing a key role. you are quite right to point out that there are those who do not want to stay here. they want to go back. they care about their country, they want it to grow. i have met many women educators, i have met women who are in business who want to go back and continue the work they were doing. i could go on with the list in this regard.

yes, i would say there is a fervent passion of taking their knowledge, the way they can grow it now, make great use of it now, whether in the united states, europe, africa, wherever they may be. afghan women and men landed in different locations across the globe. but i know the ones that i have met, i have not met one that has not expressed a desire to go back and really make a difference. you are right about the robotics. there are women athletes who, by the way, police force, by the way. women in the military, by the way. i mentioned all of these different sectors. they really had great pride. and no less, women in government. and women ambassadors, in foreign policy.

so, yes, yes, yes. let me connect a few dots here. i also previewed for the bus center the coalition for afghan and iranian women. it actually emphasizes the diaspora because it's a very sizable iranian and afghan diaspora. bringing them together because they don't necessarily have come together, so they are organizing. great in that sense of bringing them together. also with women who are in iran and afghanistan. absolutely key in this. thank you for highlighting. we have had two questions that really spotlight other areas that are crucial for growing at this time. and some of these programs are trying to ensure that we get a multiplier effect and get new ideas, actually build upon, whether it is women entrepreneurs, for that matter, the diaspora, which is crucial. merissa: one more question.

amb. dobriansky: halla is going to ask a question. if you want to take the thank y. i was amazed that you remembered that publication. it was called "best practices." amb. dobriansky: i apologize for interrupting. you had to be there because all of us were listening to the foreign minister, abdul of the. then he said what we must do is this. we were all like this. i remember that. very significant, tribute to you. >> it was done at the wilson center. amb. dobriansky: the co-author with you. >> exactly.

i want to give credit. i have not been back to iran in a number of years, but during that period of the first taliban reign, there were afghani refugees in iran. you would see women at the universities, you would ask them, why? what are you doing here? they said as soon as we can, we will go back. when we have a profession. my question to you is, seriously, do you have, not a wish, but hope that this will change again? what will it take to bring back

again what we had taliban? that is number one. number two, i also wanted to mention, we hosted at the wilson center twice the team that misses bush brought to the bush center on her visit to washington, she came to the wilson center. both times i think they were afghani women and egyptian women, if i'm not mistaken. this is a good place to have them back again, may i say that again? and finally, you mentioned madeleine albright. she always used to say and repeat, there is a special place

in hell for women who don't support other women. [laughter] i want to also thank andre, who started the forum, invited secretary albright to be here. as you recall, she mentioned that. thank you again. it was wonderful for you to come and it gives us a lot of courage to work for afghani women. amb. dobriansky: i was very inspired. i responded immediately. i said, yes, sign me up. two fast comments. i did not hear that statement about madeleine albright. i have to remember that one. henry, forgive me, i did not recognize you.

you usually keep your glasses down. very lovely to see you. the answer to your first question, i really want to say, yes, i'm positive it will happen. 100%. by the way, not just for afghanistan but iran. i believe firmly in the free spirit -- excuse me. i believe in the human spirit, that it will never be repressed. that that is something that is common across the globe, no matter what country, culture you are in. people want to live their lives and not be repressed in the ways in which they live. in that sense, i'm confident that we will see a change in both places. in that sense, human rights of women, men, children will prevail, 100%. and i will convey your message to the bush center.

merissa: we have two questions. let's hear both of your questions and then we will give you an opportunity, ambassador, to>> i am a peace fellow at seah for common ground here in d.c.. we do a lot of work for women, youth civil society organizations, peace building organizations in afghanistan and elsewhere around the world. what is your outlook on the state of women-led societal development, peacekeeping -- peace building in particular? merissa: thank you. amb. dobriansky: also i feel dl there was a young man here. do you want to take the mic? merissa: not at all, go ahead. >> thank you, ambassador, for

being here. my name is stacy, from the international civil society action network. we spearhead a global alliance for security leadership of women peace building organizations including over 10 afghan women-led organizations. as you know and have spoken to, afghan women are extremely capable, well mobilized, organized. very persistent in their advocacy for negotiations, political processes in their country, and now to try and respond and prevent any violence happening, responding to that humanitarian situation. my question is, the given roadblocks that many are facing globally, what do you see from your experience from a strategic entry point for the political engagement and leverage right now to be able to improve and change the situation and get the

u.s., and our history, what can we do now to best support them? merissa: thank you. we will take the last question from you, please. >> and from afghanistan international news outlet. you mentioned engagement with the taliban regime may not work. i was wondering what kind of solution you are thinking of. what should be done if engagement with the taliban doesn't work? and if you have time, you mentioned it is what the taliban are doing with women now, gender apartheid. where is the responsibility, international community, including the united states government, have two taken action? amb. dobriansky: let me try to

go through these. forgive me, i will give brief answers. on peacekeeping, my answer is 100% that is a key issue. looking at global peacekeeping, i can interpret your question a number of ways. when i worked at the state department, i had refugees, a high percentage of women that were a part of the peacekeeping because they were removed from society, ended up in refugee camps. was it ideal? absolutely not. you had women who were brutalized, trafficked. i am just scratching the surface in answering your question, but basically, it's an area that is absolutely crucial, key. one in which there have also been real challenges for women. i have only given you two examples of particularly trafficked women and when it correlates with refugee camps,

and arbitrary arrests, the tensions that take place. in terms of the best entry point, first, there is no silver bullet. my answers to marisa have indicated that. i seriously mean this. my answer to you is all of the above. seriously. all our key entry point here. at this time, it is tragic what is going on. i think every step counts. there is no one, single step that will bring about change. forgive me, i'm answering the first one. i didn't quite catch the second one. let me give you the answer to the first one. to clarify, the question was about normalization. there is already engagement that takes place. my comment was not about, should

we do engagement or not? we are. the state department, through tom west, as you mentioned, through qatar, does engage in discussion. there is discussion with the taliban. but there has been no traction that has demonstrated any kind of positive, concrete results to the benefit of not just only afghan women but afghan society at large. my comment was i do not support normalization because one has not seen, through this engagement that has happened with the qataris, no concrete result. merissa: thank you very much. we ran out of time. this was a very engaging discussion. thank you so much for highlighting all the important work that is being done and shedding light on the hope for

the future. it is very important for us to keep the conversation going to make sure that hope is alive. thank you to halla for also passing on the torch to all of us to continue this work here at the wilson center, not only for the middle east program but other programs as well, including the maternal health initiative which does blended work on girls and colleagues here as well. thank you. we hope to see you in the future. amb. dobriansky: thank you again. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> the u.s. economy added fit -- 353,000 jobs in january according to bureau of labor statistics data released today, registering a stronger-than-expected gain. the on a plum and rate remained at three point 7%, the 24th consecutive month that the nation's jobless rate has been under 4%. wages rose last month.

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