♪ host: good morning and welcome to washington journal. president biden and his first reelection victory in the election season on saturday taking the south carolina

democratic primary. biden will face either former president trump or nikki haley in this fall's election. the covid pandemic is over, the economy seems to be rebounding and the stock market is up. but consumer prices and gas prices are still high. there is unrest in the middle east and age is a factor for some. that's our question for you this morning, does president biden deserve reelection? we will open special lines this morning. if you plan to vote to reelect president biden your number will be 202-748-8000. if you plan to vote to replace president biden, your number is 202-748-8001. if you are undecided and you don't know which way you will vote, your number is 202-748-8002.

keep in mind you can always text us your answer at 202-748-8003. and we are always reading our social media on facebook and on x. once again president biden handily winning the south carolina democratic primary on saturday, by far outpacing his competitors in that race. we have a graphic from politico looking at the numbers that have come in from south carolina. president biden got 96.2% of the vote. with his competitors getting not even 3%. what does this mean for this upcoming election? does it mean president biden is handily going to win the

democratic nomination and what does this primary tell us? looking at the stories from politico this morning. president biden clinched a victory in the first prisons a primary. biden easily beat out nominal challengers in a state that he placed atop the primary calendar and scored a crucial victory during his 2020 campaign. biden's victory in south carolina brings the campaign one step closer to the general election which is expected to be one of the longest in american political history. the republican presidential primary in south carolina will be held february 24. former president trump is the heavy favorite in that race. last night president biden and vice president kamala harris made a joint stop in their 2020 campaign headquarters to rally

staff. here's a bit from what they said last night. >> i'm feeling good about where we are, folks are starting to focus in and the guy we are running against he is not for anything, he's against everything. it's the weirdest campaign i've ever been engaged with. in terms of his behavior in the last time in 2020. , -- kamala mentioned there's a lot at stake in this crowd knows me well. all kidding aside, i meant what i said back when we announced the first time for president against this guy we went up to independence hall and made a speech on democracy.

the press thought it was a bit of an exaggeration. the american people got it. they understand what's going on. this is a group of folks in this room who will be able to say god willing this generation help save democracy. in a literal sense, by the way as i go around the world which i do a lot with other heads of state i know them for so long, madeleine albright was right. america is an essential nation. every time i leave wherever they are the pull me aside one at a time and say you've got to win, we cannot afford -- my country is at stake. we have a norma's obligation.

i think it's time to finish the job here, -- host: let's dig deeper into the south carolina democratic primary results with lauren egan who is a white house reporter. lauren, good morning. guest: thanks for having me. host: what do we learn about president biden from the democratic primary in south carolina last night? guest: i think everyone obviously expected the president to win the primary last night but what we were keeping an eye out for was the turnout here. there was some anxiety amongst party members in south carolina that would it be really low turnout, there was sort of a downplaying of expectations leading up to saturday night, a family people were going to show up. we don't have a lot to compare this to because in past

elections when there's been a democratic incumbent the south carolina democratic party has not held a primary. when barack obama was running for reelection, there's no challenger so there's no primary here. we were not sure of what to expect. a lot of attention being given to how money black voters would show up and vote for president biden. obviously that is a key part of his coalition and there's been questions about just how enthusiastic black voters were not just in south carolina but across the country to give the president a second term. the most recent numbers are saying about 130,000 people did show up yesterday which was better than what some party members were worried could happen so despite -- so they are quite pleased with that number saying black voters are ready to support president biden. all this talk about low voter enthusiasm is punditry talk. the president they feel like is

headed into the general election in a better position with some wind at his back then may be what folks were talking about a few days before this primary. host: biden was being challenged by representative dean phillips and marianne williamson. what happens to their campaigns from this moment forward. guest: it is pretty rare to see any elected official had 96% of the vote which is whapresident biden got last night. i think it makes it really challenging for both williamson and phillips to continue their campaigns. dean phillips in a tweet last night said he was continuing his campaign. so nowhere yet on them dropping out but at this point it's really challenging to see how either of them at this point can

break through. president biden's nomination and last night really solidifies that. host: normally the election kicks off in iowa or new hampshire but this is the first real election for president biden. what did south carolina tell us about the rest of the nation that iowa new hampshire would have? guest: for president biden he was the one who pushed for south carolina to go first and to shake up this primary calendar. this was the first time south carolina has gone first which was a big deal for the state and something elected officials here took very seriously, they want to keep their first in the nation's lot going into 2028. one of the things they really stress is iowa new hampshire are not very diverse states. south carolina democratic base here is largely made up of black voters.

that's what was emphasized about what this state can foreshadow or tell us about the national electorate as a whole. how are voters feeling about president biden. janie harrison, the head of the dnc, the take away was that black voters would show up for president biden. they are ready to give president biden a second term. >> was there anything in the secondary the primary that gives the campaign concern moving forward? guest: i was on the trail in south carolina in the days leading up to the saturday primary and there's no doubt a lot of the campaign events they were hosting were not super well attended by voters.

i think there still is a question about voter enthusiasm. 130,000 voters turning out is solid but it is not that mind blowing amount of turnout. i think there are still although they are feeling good about how yesterday went and it was definitely a great night for the president, i think there are still some lingering concerns that they have not fully shook off about enthusiasm around president biden. one of the takeaways are maybe people aren't showing up to these campaign events taking time out of their day to come here to hear him speak that the end of the day when it comes time to vote they will still show up and ultimately that is what matters. host: the republican primary is on february 24. south carolina is nikki haley's home state. what you watching for in the

nikki haley donald trump competition. guest: donald trump is definitely the favorite to win that one. one thing goal be interesting is some thing south carolina democrats talked about the last week was how many democrats set out the democratic primary giving that it was not competitive at all and instead voting in the republican primary where there's a bit more competition and democrats saying they felt like folks just their vote could have more of an impact in that primary. that will be intriguing to see just how many democrats actually did decide to do that. no one is obviously expecting a significant amount or enough to really change the outcome of what that primary will be, but that could also be telling and maybe say something about just how money democrats were willing to vote but just doing that for

the republicans in the hopes to change the general election. host: we would like to thank lauren egan who was the white house reporter for coming on this morning and walking us through the south carolina democratic primary. thank you so much. our question to you after the south carolina democrat primary, is president biden deserve reelection? let's go to our phone lines and talk to donna from clark county, nevada. good morning. caller: good morning. host: does president joe biden deserve reelection? caller: yes i believe he does. i worry about the age thing is well like a lot of people. trump isn't that much younger and if this is who we have for our nominee, any other person

isn't going to be able to make in. so why not go with the guy who has done really well, our economy is doing better. just all indicators it's doing much better. infrastructure and a lot of things. i think he deserves it and i think that a trump administration again, he worries me. he is a criminal element and he doesn't follow the constitution. so i can vote for him. i voted on friday, already we had early voting for the primary and i voted for joe biden. host: that call was from nevada. president joe biden is having events in nevada, we will bring

that to you on c-span when it is available. let's go to ryan calling from arizona. he says president by deserves to be replaced. good morning. caller: definitely replace him. the economy is not doing that good. everything is expensive. we are paying more and turning our country into a third world nation. importing millions of third world people you will turn it into a third world country. so very destructive. america is can the look horrible for our future. our kids will be in debt with the debt we are racking up. i think he's done a horrible job and very disappointed. we definitely need to get him out of there.

in the second term is only good to more radical. host: who would you replace him with? have you chosen someone who you would vote for in november? caller: i would've even liked to have seen kennedy do better. he would've been a good choice. trump is the better choice. the lesser of two evils. the mainstream media is bought and paid for, corporations are on the take it's a sad world right now. trump has lots of faults but he's also a nationalist. we need someone like that to get this country back, sticking up for the american people and american values. wanting to sell our country out to the foreigners. getting our tax money it's a total joke right now. host: bob calling from logan,

utah. he says president biden should be reelected. caller: good morning. i guess and the total opposite. i'm 86 years old, i served this country, my brother serve this country and when you have -- that wants to be a dictator when he went to north korea -- i wonder how that family fell -- fell with his brains wrecked and

they had to take them off of a feeding tube. i wonder how they felt when he said he loved him -- kim. we don't have a good choice this year, but biden is 50 times better and he is trying and he is not evil. trump is evil and has been terrible. thank you. host: let's talk to paul calling from kentucky who says biden should be replaced. good morning. caller: absolutely he's the worst president this country has had. he got us in three wars, the border is open. and child trafficking. all of that is joe biden. the i don't care what they say

the economy is horrible. he's destroying democracy with the way he's having his justice department going after his political opponents. he's no better than stalin. he is evil, vile, despicable man. you have a good day. host: michael is calling from marina del rey, california. our first undecided voter of the day. good morning. you have not made a decision on who you're voting for yet? caller: no. from a historical perspective it would be interesting if biden was reelected and served a four-year term. it would be the first american to serve two terms as vice president and two terms as president. so from a historical perspective it is interesting what happens to him. both major candidates, trump and

biden are both underwater with the public. the only one who is not is robert kennedy junior j think is interesting. i think there's a lot of campaigning still left. it will be interesting to see if trump gets the nomination, i'm not exactly sure who's going to. if he does get it who will be his running mate and will he participate in the debates? will we even have debates in the fall? there's a lot of things coming up that will be a nasty ugly campaign. and of course you have the whole wildcard of these trials if he's can be convicted and what happens then. i'm going to wait it out and see what happens.

host: while it might look like the elections going to be down to president trump and -- former president trump and president joe biden, poll after poll is showing many americans are not excited about the matchup and abc news had a story that talks a little bit about that concern. i will read a couple of paragraphs of that story to you. polls suggest voters did not want a rematch between joe biden a donald trump, let alone one that took most of the year. but now voters are likely to get just that after turning out in support of both candidates in the early nominating races. the general election campaign whose length could be virtually unheard of. it's all most a cruel joke on the electorate with the longest presidential election potential he ever might also be the one that they are the least excited about says one democratic

pollster. i bring this up because the campaign commercials between trump and biden have already begun and i want to bring you two that are running right now. we'll start with former president trump on true social mocking president biden's age calling the white house senior living. here's what that ad says. [video clip] >> at white house senior living our residents feel right at home. our facility offers delightful activities and outings. round-the-clock professional care and exquisite housemaid meals. >> and ice cream, chocolate chip ice cream. >> white house senior living, where residents feel like presidents. host: president biden is also

putting campaign ads out there warning about what a name donald trump presidency could look like. here's what biden campaign has to say. @cspanwj -- [video clip] >> i believe in a free and fair election and the right to vote fairly and having your vote counted. something dangerous happened in america, there is an extremist movement that does not share the basic beliefs in our democracy. what will we do to maintain our democracy? the world is watching. most important our children and grandchildren will hold us responsible. the vice president and the die have supported voting rights in this administration and i ask every american to join me in this cause. america is still a place of possibility where the power resides with we the people.

we are the united states of america, there is nothing beyond our capacity when we act together. i'm joe biden and i proved -- i approve this message. host: our question for you this morning is president joe biden deserve reelection? we'll go back to our poll lines -- phone lines and talk to john who says i can deserve reelection. caller: absolutely he deserves to be reelected. the way i look at it it is good versus evil. trump is evil. look at what he's done. look at the insurrection he's caused, he's in all of these suits against him and everything. i definitely him voting for

someone that is good versus evil and trump is definitely evil. and you for taking my call. host: fayetteville, north carolina who says president joe biden should be replaced. good morning. caller: good morning. he needs to be replaced, it's not even a close call. $33 trillion in debt, signing bills to spend more money. if you want inflation to go up and things to get worse in the economy and vote for biden. just passing the tap -- child tax credit again. he's can assign that into law and cut more checks. college debt he's defying the courts and continuing to pay off student college debt. a big issue for me which makes me angry and i think the man needs to be replaced very

quickly. host: who would you support in the november election? caller: well, that's a good question. right now i don't want to vote for either trump or biden so if they being the candidates i'm probably get a stay home. host: let's go to bill calling from marietta, georgia. bill says president biden deserves to be reelected. good morning. caller: good morning. let me say this, i feel very strongly president biden is the only choice we have is given time to preserve democracy. i don't know about some of those callers, i think we are in the

same boat we were in in 2020 and double repeat just exactly what i said in 2020. i'm voting for a president not a dictator. if these people cannot understand what donald trump really means, than they are bigger fools than he is because donald trump probably be the best dictator that's ever been. the man has told everyone he would be a dictator from day one, he wants revenge and he does not have any problem with installing martial law and taking away everyone's rights. the people who support this, they've better be thinking about what is the future of this country. is it going to be a dictator or a president.

i still believe in presidents and i will work and fight every way to maintain our democracy and this country. host: does president joe biden deserve reelection? we are opening up special lines. if you think president biden deserves reelection your number will be 202-748-8000. if you plan to vote to replace president biden your number is. -- your number is 202-748-8001. if you have not decided how you're going to vote, your number is 202-748-8002. harold is calling from tennessee , saying president biden should be reelected. >> thank you for taking my call.

i hear people calling in. when trump and biden were handing out that money. if we can't afford it maybe you should send your money back. look what happens when the republicans take over. women are going to lose every right they've got. the seniors, loser social security and medicare. republicans are big on privatizing schools. if you're a person of color, women of color will not have a chance in this world. we have no other choice. are we can elect a dictator or a president. instead of saying democracy, democracy is freedom that's about all of got to say, thank you very much you do a great job. host: let's talk to christian

calling from phoenix who says president biden should be replaced. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to say first of all we are a republican form of government. the word democracy, or democrat is not in the u.s. constitution for all of those who say they are following the u.s. constitution. to add insult to injury the notion that joe biden follows the u.s. constitution -- let's just say joe biden wrote the most to radical, executive action, executive order in the history of the united states when he coerced u.s. businesses, the people of our country into taking a vaccine threatening u.s. citizens into taking a vaccine, threatening u.s. citizens into taking -- wearing a mask and threatened us or else

we would lose our jobs and income and our livelihoods. even in his own speech on september 9, 20 he said "we have been patient but our patience is wearing thin. i don't know -- people talk about being a dictator, that's a dictator. we have a dictator right now in the white house. so this notion about abortion because that's what a lot of people are going to vote on whether they submit a ballot or vote on election day, if you want to vote to kill a baby on the table, more power to you. don't complain about economic, don't complain about your bank account, don't complain about your job income, do not complain about your housing, about your

food, do not complain about your cost of living. if you want to kill a child on the table then that's your priority, then campaign for it. open political action committees and say yes we want to kill babies on the table. thank you. host: while the election season is going on there are other events in the world including the u.s. and its allies continuing airstrikes in iraq and syria. joining us on zoom is associated press pentagon correspondent who is here to discuss with us the latest in the retaliatory front against iranian targets in syria and lebanon in response to drone attacks that killed three u.s. servicemen. good morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: these new airstrikes that happened yesterday. there were more on saturday.

can you tell us how expense -- extensive these are? guest: to target a number of sites where antiship cruise missiles, uavs, helicopters have been used to threaten commercial and military warships that are transiting the red sea. this latest attack each less than a day against iran backed militants was really to further press that the u.s. is asking iran and demanding these attacks stop on u.s. and interest -- and its interests. overseas. host: do we think the airstrikes

are over or will there be more airstrikes this week? guest: there's already been an additional one today. there was an antiship missile strike targeted just hours after this last major operation. i suspect there will be a continuing rolling set of strikes. the u.s. or its allies detect a site that's prepared to launch and they go ahead and take that site before the missile and drone is able to launch. so they have been able to fire a number of drones into the red sea. >> what do we see as the message to iran? these rebels are supposedly supported by iran. what we see as the message to them and are they getting it? guest: i think the message has

been received. we have brand-new reporting from our correspondent saying iran has actually now messaged to the u.s. to leave its two container ships in the red sea but are believed to be intelligence vessels are launching point for the commandos do not target those ships. the u.s. has taken great care not to hit iran's ships directly , both sides have said they do not want a direct war with each other. however the u.s. has had proxy sites now in syria, iraq and yemen. they have -- iran has been funding and arming these groups for years and then saying it's not involved when they attack u.s. or our interests. host: is there concern about retaliations in the middle east or elsewhere from these rebels following this airstrike? guest: everybody has been watching their language closely.

some of these groups have issued statements that seem to tamper down on the rhetoric and try to lower tensions, whether other groups have pledged to press on with their attacks and said they will continue until a cease-fire is claimed between israel and hamas. >> what do we expect to see in the hours ahead. we expect negotiation, more airstrikes. what is it we are looking for to seeing? guest: i think that is anybody's guess. if they end up launching a missile or drones actually hit another ship, i think you could see another round of retaliatory strikes. these two sets of large strikes have actually gotten the message across. host: we seem to be having a bit of technical difficulties. we will see if we can get tara

back. it seems we are having a bit of technical difficulties with her zoom. that was the associated press pentagon correspondent who was with us discussing the airstrikes that are continuing even today in the middle east against iranian targets. we will go back to our main question which is does president joe biden deserve reelection. we want to know if you plan to vote to reelect president biden that number is 202-748-8000. if you plan to vote to replace president biden, that number is 202-748-8001. if you are still undecided, that number is 202-748-8002. let's start with carl calling from manhattan, new york. carl says president joe biden should be reelected. good morning. caller: good morning.

if they have to wheel him in their i would vote for him. if you get him in there, white people, he's good to come for you. people over there they are not god's chosen people. i wear the crown of jesus christ. i'm a lamb of god. donald trump is the first confederate president and they are behind him. half of those people --

host: let's go to linda: from oregon. linda says president biden should be replaced. linda, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. the president of the united states right now is doing everything he said he would not do. he said he would not put us in a war, we are in a war. he said he would take care of america. as a senior i'm worse off than i ever was under trump. my money is not going far enough and i'm now using credit cards that i would never have to use to buy food. i will call both of them out. i also believe borders are a dangerous part of america and he said he would take care of the american he's taking care of the illegals. some of them are getting $1000 for walking across the border. they can do everything they want. they are bringing their children into the schools and have not

had vaccinations and your children are going to be very sick one day. it's all because of the president we have right now. our food prices are out of this world. we have so many businesses that produce food throughout the world that are destroyed. i would like to know who is behind all of this. the president of the united states is not running this. mr. obama is and his henchmen. host: we seem to have gotten tara back online. can you hear me? guest: i can hear you, sorry that i dropped off. host: the wonders of modern technology. tell us which we expect to see coming up this week? do we expect to see the secretary of state going over there? do we expect to see antony blinken or lloyd austin this? what can we expect coming up?

guest: antony blinken has been making nonstop stops. to get all these players to the negotiating table and to avoid opening another door to the conflict which would direct confrontation. i don't know at what point i dropped off but i pointing out our colleague news reporting that iran is now issuing a warning to the u.s. to not strike two commercial vessel -- vessels in the red sea that the u.s. and allies believe our intelligence vessels and a staging point for commandos. to avoid a larger war, the u.s. has been really careful about not striking inside iran and not directly targeting iranian assets such as its ship. for now it's been directly targeting these proxy sites that

are harassing so many ships in the red sea. host: how is all of this affecting what's going on between israel and the palestinians? we are talking about iran but does it have some connection or any connection to what's going on there on the ground? guest: over the last couple of days you've heard more and more the key to de-escalating all of the tension you see in iraq and syria and yemen now goes through gaza. and a cease-fire there without sensitive brokered peace, these attacks will continue because these militant groups that are iran backed, whether it is hezbollah or hamas, and now the houthis in yemen. they have a common factor to support the palestinian cause and the current conflict, the hamas attacks in israel on october 7. host: do we know or see any

possible cease-fire coming forward that would reduce these types of attacks or is it all still up in the air? >> it's all still up in the air. you've language in the last week various partners not only striking the u.s. but to cease those strikes and you see officials on both sides suggest that possibly negotiation is possible but as soon as you get into the details that's where both sides start to pull back. host: we are in the middle of the political season. does the white house have any political concerns with these attacks going on in the middle east and does the fact president biden is up for reelection affect what we are doing with these airstrikes in the middle east? guest: one of the previous

callers pointed out biden had campaigned on getting us out of wars, the biden administration did withdraw troops from afghanistan. even though the u.s. has tried to pull its troops and resources mostly to try and start to pivot to the asia-pacific and the growing -- of china. it simply hasn't been able to. the conflict there simmered for decades and there seem to be no closer to resolution now than they were five or 10 years ago. the middle east is going to continue to be a challenge for this administration going forward and the challenge will be how do you keep the u.s. of a major direct conflict with iran. host: we would like to thank tara for being with us this morning and talking us through the retaliatory strikes against iran targets in syria and

lebanon. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you for having me. guest: back to art -- host: back to our top question. we want to know if you plan to vote to reelect president biden. that number is 202-748-8000. if you plan to replace biden, that is 202-748-8001. if you're still undecided, if you do not know what you're going to do yet, your number is 202-748-8002. let's talk to one of those undecided voters, kimberly: from california. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm glad i'm following the news reporter because it factors in what she's talking about is my concern. there's no way i thought i would be voting for somebody that could stop these wars.

by just calling for a cease-fire in gaza it's the most important issue of the day. we are looking at world war iii. a genocide happening in our name. either one of the candidates that are running for president, trumping the presumptive nominee is someone i would never vote for either. he would continue supporting -- thousands and thousands of people are dying. all that has to happen is we have to withhold our money i'm undecided because i hope cornell west is on the ballot in california so that i can vote the green party and vote for cornell west, he's one of the few candidates calling for a cease-fire. host: let's talk to jc calling from virginia. saying president biden should be reelected. good morning. caller: good morning, yes.

biden should be a reelect -- should be reelected. he is doing a great job and i am a first time caller. also i would like to say that people would like to have their democracy and have it kept safe. you better vote to reelect biden. that's including on your social security, medicare and medicaid and all that you better vote or biden because he's doing a great job. i voted for him in 2020. i will be voting for him and 2024. host: ronald is undecided. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm very saddened to hear people explain -- display such ignorance that they actually think and say that they think

biden has been doing a great job. by any rational measure he's the worst president that we've ever had. we've gone from a world of peace under the previous administration, we've gone from having closed manageable border under the previous administration, we've gone -- we now have unprecedented inflation , ridiculously high food prices, ridiculously high gasoline prices and have president biden break his oath to the american people and not enforce the laws of the constitution on

immigration, it is absurd, absurd that people should think he's doing a great job and their version of a great job is to destroy the united states more than any foreign country has tried to in the past. host: it does not sound like you are undecided. it sounds or you would definitely replace joe biden. houthi you -- caller: i'm undecided about who i think is the very best person to replace him. that's how i'm undecided. anyone really other than biden would be in a norm is improvement and also i just want to emphasize that millions and millions of americans do not

believe -- very valid over c-span two would least -- some of those many people in and out of government -- >> let's talk to brian calling from indiana. brian says biden should be replaced. good morning. >> i'm confused why anyone would vote for biden because he's done all this reckless stuff like open the border, filled all of our oil wells. this new deal which i don't even believe his actual just like he admits.

he just wants socialism. we did have a way to pay for this anymore. >> on friday, vice president, harris came out and spoke at an event in south carolina where she highlighted the biden harris administration's accomplishments since they took office in 2021. ears of the vice president had to say. -- here is what the vice president had to say. [video clip] >> we have lowered costs, created opportunity and are building an economy that works for working people. we have created more than 14.5 million new jobs, increased wages for tens of millions of americans, today consumer confidence is up in consumer spending is at an all-time high. although we have more work to do let us be clear, america's

economy continues to be the strongest in the world. so it all comes down to this. president biden and i are guided by the fundamental belief, we work for you. the american people. and every day we fight for you. host: many people are concerned about the economy. the new york times has a story that the growing economy seems to be puncturing its way through to voters and changing their mood about what's happening in the country. a couple of paragraphs from that new york times story. a strong economic data appears to finally punctured about the u.s. economy. blasting away recession fears and potentially aiding president biden in his reelection campaign. mr. biden has struggled to sell

voters on the positive side of the economy under his watch and gluing rapid job game -- rapid job gains and public growth from the recession of any wealthy country. forecasters warn of eminent recession. voters told pollsters they were angry with the president for the other big economic, of his tenure, surge of inflation which peaked in 2022 with the fastest rate of price growth in four decades. much of that narrative appears to be changing after the lagging price growth earlier mr. biden's term, wages are now rising faster than inflation. the economy grew three point 1% from the end of 2022 the end of 2023, defying expectations. the inflation rate is falling towards historically normal levels, of the stock markets are recording record highs.

that coming from the new york times with a story saying the economy looks stunning a potential gain for biden. her question to you, does president joe biden deserve reelection. let's talk to madeleine who's calling from ellwood city, pennsylvania and she says yes, president biden deserves reelection. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i do believe. i believe this country is spoiled, they have -- all they have to do is look at this, my mom and dad, my dad was a u.s. soldier during world war ii. my mother was an italian war bride. they live that. my mother would have to salute mussolini. as a young girl. they were wealthy people, my mother's family. they lost everything.

they lived through war, they know what it is like to be bombed. she was so proud when she married my dad and came to america. and now i was her caregiver for the last 20 years, i lost her. 1.5 years ago. since that scoundrel came down that elevator, she saw it. she had flashbacks, she remembered. she said this man is no good. he is no good. he is like mussolini, like hitler's. i remember it, i know what we went through. i don't want you kids to go through this. i had to turn television sets away from her not to make her see it. she would cry because she remembered. this country needs to wake up, go look at your history, find

out what this man was about, the real criminals here is this republican party, they are not concerned -- they are turning authoritarian, they don't represent three fourths of this country. all they want is their power back. >> let's go to john calling from fairfield, connecticut. john says president biden should be replaced. good morning. >> good morning. first off i was a government major in school. and i've been studying politics for 50 years. and have watched both parties -- i was a registered democrat and i changed parties for a reason. and i believe joe biden is a third term for president obama. and i believe if he is reelected he will be a fourth term for

president obama. government is not run by one person. it's usually run by a cadre of people. and the people unfortunately that are running the country right now are -- do not have the interests of the american heart. and i think what gets everybody so upset about president trump is the fact that he went and exposed a lot of what was going on and that's what happens, look at joe biden's records back when he was in congress. and what he did, what he supported then. politicians in general talk out of both sides of their mouth. and they do. unfortunately you've got to be very careful. i like the idea of a non-politician getting into

office and kind of exposing people to exactly how rotten politics is in general. i've studied politics for 50 years. it was my major in school. >> let's talk to mark. mark says he's undecided. good morning. >> the reason i am undecided is you really don't know what's can happen 10 months down the line. with all the things that are going on with trump. he could be arrested, we don't know what's can happen. the american people don't know what's can happen. the one thing i would like to correct a few things, i worked in new york for 40 years and that's why i'm retired down here in south carolina because it's a shame to see what happened to my

state that i worked in and used to go to shows in and not have to worry about looking behind my back walking down the streets. it's a disgrace to see police officers are being attacked in my former state. a lot of people don't even understand when trump set on to be a dictator the first day, that's new york's sense of humor. a lot of people don't have that sense of humor. but we have -- something has to happen. it can be biden. it's got to be someone else. either he drops out, but no one's good and know what's can happen. we don't even know, there could be a major terrorist attack happening in the meantime. putting this country in a bad situation. that's the main reason i left new york is the politics that went on up there and now with the governor saying she's going to now send poor people.

why doesn't she just change the bail laws. people. why doesn't she change the bail laws? host: let's talk to matt. matt says he will replace -- or reelect joe biden. caller: how you doing? earlier you showed a couple commercials of the accomplishment of joe biden and how well he has been doing over the last couple of years after the pandemic. the other showed trump. all he did was show marketing and what a trial he is. if people cannot see the difference between two political ads versus someone who mocks people, our country is in dire shape, if people cannot see the difference between that.

i feel sorry for the people who think that trump is the solution to our country when all he is doing is going down the wrong path. host: thank you to all of our callers he called in for our first segment. coming up, kyle will be here to discuss campaign 2024 and the political news of the day. later on, johns hopkins school -- discussing the evolution around proxies since the beirut bombings. stick with us. we will be right back. >> this week on the c-span

network, the house and senate are in session. this week, janet yellen, chair of the financial stability oversight council will testify at two committee hearings. first on tuesday before the house financial committee and then thursday before the urban affairs committee. supreme court will hear oral arguments in a case concerning the appeal of a colorado supreme court ruling that he is an eligible to be on the state ballot. watch ve on the c-span network or on our free mobile video a head over for scheduling information or watch on demand at any time. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> henry lam brands junior has

written about 20 bucks in the past six years. the portland, oregon native is a professor at the university of texas come the same school where he earned his phd. the list of other books include andrew jackson, u.s. grant, abraham lincoln, fbi and many others. we will talk with him about these and his newest offering about hamilton, madison, jefferson and john adams in a book called founding partisans. >>'s book founding partisans on it is available wherever you get your podcast.

>> washington journal continues. host: we are back and we are joined by kyle. he is here to discuss campaign 2024 and the political news of the day. good morning. we just got through the south carolina democratic primary. what did we learn about president biden's campaign and how voters are feeling in america? guest: i feel like this was good for joe biden because it was not bad. maybe he gets 75% of the vote and you think, south carolina was the state that kind of launched him and then you see polls suggesting -- it does not mean that he will not have to

deal at that in november, but you have an emple of a significant african-american electorate kickoff and biden got 96% to 97% ofhe. a good showing for him. i do not think it predicts anything about the future. i figured he would be in the 80's, so i think it was a good showing. host: there is enthusiasm. guest: turnout was high. again, it will naturally be way less than a super contested primary like in 2020. i would not say that turnout was superhigh but it was not like

nobody showed up either. the last time you had an unopposed democratic president running was barack obama in 2012. south carolina, did not even have a primary because obama was the only candidate. there was a significant protest vote in certain places. something like 40% of the vote. i'm interested to see if that happens at a point. it also -- one of the dangerous signs for incumbents has been primary troubles. donald trump and 2020 degree in the nba season but he also lost the election. it was not like it meant anything for him in the future.

it was good for biting because it was not bad. host: i remember watching something about jimmy carter primary and how it affected his campaign. right now there are two candidate against joe biden. where did their campaign go from here after almost a dismal showing? >> it was a dismal showing. he staked a lot on new hampshir which was not an official democratic contest. you have to remember that people had to physically write in biden. phillips not only got the vote he finished behind williamson,

who is a french person in the democratic party and was not trying to hard to win votes. where did they go? competing in michigan. nevada on tuesday night. again, biotin is fine with his party's primary process. we are at the point where it will be biden's decision if he continues running or not or if he would step aside. i do not know if he would be considering that. the voters are starting to have their say. host: i wanted to bring this up before we moved onto the republicans. there is no indication that president biden would step

aside, that he is not going to go through the campaign, right? guest: we will get a question about it today wednesday get close to the convention, he will drop out. sure. that is within the realm of possibility of happening. but again, maybe the democrats would be better off with a new candidate, but also, if you had that situation going on, then you have ulcers of debates and it is possible that they would be weaker. everybody looks great until they actually get in. we saw with ron desantis. pulling great with a great profile, on and on. and then you get to some of the races with the actual candidate

and it does not work out. it is a real meat grinder these candidates. i'm not saying biotin has a ton of strength. he does not. but i do not think you just necessarily assume. host: letting our viewers know that they can take part in this conversation. we are going to open up our regular lines. republicans can call in at (202) 748-8001. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. independents can call in at (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003, and we are always meeting on social media. now, the republicans turn is

coming up on february 24. this is nikki haley's home state. she was governor of south carolina and is facing former president donald trump in that state. what does it look like for those candidates? guest: i think you would expect trump to win by double digits like he did in new hampshire. the demographics are such that nikki haley does better among people who think of themselves as moderate. south carolina is more conservative, not as many conservatives crossing over. it is a white christian evangelical state and those kind of voters will be more loyal to trump than they are to nikki

haley. nikki haley is looking ahead to having to compete in her home state and potentially not do well. it is not like she is going away , but it is a tall mountain to climb. if you lose your home state, it is hard to have the rationale to move forward. host: what happens to her campaign if that happens? guest: it is possible that there are some states that the on super tuesday that had electorates that are more like new hampshire, so maybe she can win one or both. but it is not like she is getting closer to trump.

we are getting into the part of the calendar. south carolina, winner take all. you also start to get the states that have a winner take all trigger. you can see trump really backing up the delegates quickly. you get to the point where more than half of the delegates have been awarded. there is an opportunity for trump to get winner take all. nikki haley can continue as long as she once and her financial backers support her in doing that. host: there is a strong --

guest: she is making inroads among certain demographics because you're not going to get to almost winning and dr. carolina by just doing well. people who do not think of themselves as super can there would have. it would indicate that she is cutting into that group. it would show that there has been a shift in the party. you see that reflected in super tuesday. i'm not really expecting that but that is what she would be looking for. host: i want to show you this nikki haley campaign add and

talk about how she is trying to define her candidacy. http://twitter.com/cspanwj -- [video clip] >> we need conservative leadership to get it done. host: nikki haley has pushed the narrative of both comp and biden as being too old and see poses herself as new leadership. guest: you can see the logic in the argument. polls have been telling us for a long time that they do not want the rematch. trump, there has been opposition in his own party, but he is also

facing more credible opposition than joe biden is. racially speaking, both areas are heavily white electorates. i think he has shown appeal across the republican party as demonstrated in iowa and new hampshire. biden is unpopular. this is a little bit different in that it is tying them together in a primary. i do not think they are moving a lot from before. host: let's start with james on the democratic . good morning.

caller: first of all, you hear a lot about the liberal media. 44% of all news outlets are by conservatives. that debunks that. if the only thing that people have against joe biden is his age, then he is doing a pretty good job. now, i'm hearing from the conservative news outlet about how much people are against -- they are saying that biden is the second term of obama. evidently, he hated obama for whatever reason. we have a lot of racial overtones coming out of the republican party and people do

not want to admit it with that. that is my comment and i am done. guest: i grew up down the road from akron. biden was obama's vice resident, so in some ways it could be seen as a continuation but even when he was vice president, he had different views on foreign policy, different from obama when he was president. a lot of people are very stable in their vote choice and they do not like democratic presidents. the way you are voting for president, you are voting for an administration. of course, the person himself is important, but a lot of

republicans back trump not necessarily because they like him but because they want a conservative administration. host: let's talk to jake on the republican line. caller: there is a lot of talk that nikki haley is running for 2028 or as trump's vp. if she loses south carolina, i do not think she can go on, so thank you. guest: i think those comments are spot on. typically, the person chosen is

not the person who ran in the primaries. if you look at the longer stretch in history it is often somebody who did not run. for trump, it might seem like he is holding a grudge. i we going to look at nikki haley and say, she is going to be the front runner? trump will have chosen a candidate by then who have been vice president or gotten to be the vp candidate. that person might be prominent. other people may come along. naturally, everybody else ends up looking for through the

process, so if you are running and 2024, it is not necessarily how it works. host: one of the things that has been different about this primary is that the front minor did not really engage with the other candidates. he did not debate and did not really attack any of them individually, but now it is between him and nikki haley and he seems to be going after. what is the best tactic that you see? what is by the navy? guest: he and his campaign were proven correct that they could skip the. the guy who was running away

with the race was not there. the least impactful debate. i think trump is in a position where he can attack nikki haley for this or that, but he is still pretty well-liked in the party and fundamentally, where she is in the party, i do not think she is particularly moderate. there are just not that many people within the party. host: i want to put up a donald trump campaign add. here is former president donald trump with his latest add

attacking nikki haley on social security. [video clip] >> social security and medicare. how would you manage the entitlements? >> we changed retirement age. 65 is way too low. >> trump will never let that happen. guest: this ad is what you might see from a republican like 15 years ago. they have a generic sort of advantage but trump did sort of soften republican messaging on that and it was pretty effective for him. for a general election audience,

i think trump is perceived to be more conservative now than when he was a challenger. it does show the sort of messaging that you become familiar with. host: let's go back to our phone lines. duke, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: just fine. caller: i think the big problem is the democrats, all of them, not just the president but all of them want to make money, have wars and make money.

it is ridiculous. host: go ahead and respond. guest: it is a little bit different. you know, there is a real skepticism of foreign intervention and being aggressive abroad. the second bush presidency was pretty much all about that. there are all these foreign policy issues going on right now. they are trying to keep shipping lanes open. for a lot of americans, it is an inward feeling of we should be doing these things abroad.

it is also seen in congress. it is more of an issue for the biden administration to get through. host: calling on the democratic line. caller: a couple of things. i have heard you say twice today confusing former president or president. do not call trump former president if that is going to be a problem. it is trump and president biden. that is just on the side. for me, my issues are race and rate.

president trump -- former president trump was convicted of sexual assault and a new york judge said it is rape. how can anyone vote for somebody he convicted of rape? your guest did not answer the brother's question when he was talking about the racism in president trump's candidacy and now with nikki haley he has married three women in his life. he wants to talk all the stuff about the border and foreigners, but he has been married to two foreigners in be seems to have an issue with that.

guest: trump has a lot of racist things -- set a lot of racist things in his time in politics. he has all these legal questions hanging over his head. i do not necessarily know if this is going to do significant political damage. there was the access hollywood tape that was him saying all these horrible things about women. it did because his support to fall off a little bit in the immediate aftermath, but then he rebounded. it was election but you had a lot of people with a negative view of both candidate. you could see something like that happen this time as well.

people move in and out of wanting to vote in general. this is why for someone like me, it will be a tricky election. what if trump is convicted? you could see his support the road but you cannot necessarily assume that it would not regenerate based on something else. maybe there is a problem that biden has. i would not make any assumptions. these are all totally fair points and real things to deal with, but despite this, trump has been pretty resilient. host: there was a recent poll that came out that has migration as one of, if not the top iss

right now. no immigration is the top concern with inflatio now second. is 77% s that the white house should makeom kind of deal with republicans to increase border security, including 65% of democrats. how are these issues in the electorate right now? guest: we have a special election coming up. this is a district that damage -- that they should be able to win by republicans have been doing really well and elections

since biden got elected. emigration is a big focus of the ad campaign. probably a little less than 50-50 to do it. i think if the republicans win, it would be further confirmation but in this environment, there are other numbers that we are aware of that immigration is a big issue. trump's problem was that he was seen as too aggressive on immigration and biden is seen as too soft on immigration. trump's signature issue is

immigration, sometimes in ways that came off as racist, but also was effective, especially when he was able to dial that back a little bit. one of the questions was, but he do worse with nonwhite voters? he did not do worse. he did a little bit better. the republican party spent all this time after 2012 thinking about how to adopt a softer message on some of these issues. he would not say they have paid much of a penalty for it. it is not like he is a dominant

performer but also not a huge anchor for the party either. host: i want to ask a general question right now. how should we look at these numbers? how should we interpret polls eight months before the election? all the way back to donald trump's victory, there had been doubt cast. how seriously should we take these numbers? how do we interpret them so far out from the election? guest: i think the polling is pretty well done. they had trump up eight in

georgia. they were almost the exact same margin in 2020. both decided less than a point. i find it difficult to believe that those states would actually vote that differently, that you would have a tie in wisconsin. there is something contradictory about those poles and you could look at a lot of the polling. there are some that are tied. he would not expect the polls to all be the same. but there is a lot of contradictory indicators out there. they have better now than they were in the cycle.

i do not know how much stock we should put into that. i think we have to wait until the summary to have more conviction. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to kevin. good morning. caller: great dialogue. one of the spots i go to is a website where they show joe biden's schedule. the thing that disturbs me about this president is how much time he spends in his house in delaware. he is making up this morning in his house in delaware. we are not allowed -- we do not

know if he is seeing doctors or the ceo of raytheon. same thing with donald trump. does anyone in the media wonder what happened on a friday afternoon when he is making up in delaware? talking about trump with the rape, people should go back and talk to a woman named tara reid. it might be worth revisiting that. guest: i cut presidents some slack on where they are. i also think that presidents are doing a lot of work all the time.

i think it is fair to note, do we always know who the president is talk to? i do not want to make it seem like it is not an issue but presidents are often criticized. i would cut them a little bit of slack. the caller did not specifically say this, but what is his health level and activity level? what kind of campaign is he going to be running? there are a lot of down. it is arguably his biggest issue. it is not like he can get younger, but you can address it by being out in public. he was in michigan a few days

ago meeting with voters. host: we talked a little earlier about the fact that there is no indication that he is going to drop out. there is a question. i wanted to get your idea. according to the new york post article, mielle is working behind-the-scenes to replace biden in the coming months. there is a story in the post that said -- it is an opinion article that says that they might be working on a 2024 white house bid. guest: this comes up a lot. michelle obama is a relatively

popular figure. she is a talented public figure in her own right, just like her husband was. this all feels like conspiracy stuff to me. she could have run for office, if she wanted to. if biden dropped out, i do not think she would be next in line or chomping at the bit to do it. i cannot read her mind. i do not know how well source they are. but it is just part of the political conversation. i do not think it is unreasonable to bring up. again, how would she perform as a presidential candidate? great on paper.

but you really do not know until it happens. caller: good morning. i want to respond to a call that came up a couple of calls ago. a guy called in and said that he thought that the democrats were all about money. it just struck me because number one, trump is definitely all about money. he charged the government for a secret service detail to go to his house in florida. there is no way you could have heard those stories -- he is probably still doing it with the secret service detail.

i just believe it all comes down to where we consume our news coming from the right wing media. it is unbelievable to me. any response at all? guest: when trump was president, the hotel industry was a very popular spot. there was some dealings going on there. they are very obsessed with the president's son. hunter biden certainly benefited from having the last name of biotin in his business dealings. talked at a number of things

when he was president, in terms of helping his own diseases. host: where do we see a third party and independent candidates coming in? do we see that being a strong third-party push? guest: 6% of the electorate voted not to vote for a major party candidate. it was an election like 2024, where you will have a significant amount of people. it provides an opening for some of the third-party candidates. he is not currently looking for a nomination for a pre-existing party.

it is easy and some states and harder and others. richard has been doing it for a long time. you know, there has been some talk about kennedy running as libertarian. it would upset the apple card. biotin might do better in the poll, maybe a little bit worse. the left-wing intellectuals, green party candidate, libertarians, maybe it is kennedy or somebody else.

they might have a candidate as well. probably more harmful to biden than trump. generally speaking, you would expect that to be a lot less. a regular theme. if you go back, gary johnson was pulling at 9% to 10%. johnson ended up getting 3%. you would expect that to contract but if you look at the polling now, adds more of a complicating factor. a lot of people say they will vote third-party.

how do you think about how to allocate their support? it is good to ask. you can compare and contrast how they are different. host: jane on the republican line. caller: i'm going to give a set up. my question is, -- hiller singled out jews to blame as scapegoats. do you think the republicans are doing the same with transgender today with the bills going across the countries in the states that are really bad? thank you. guest: the issue of transgender

rights and participation in youth sports has been a hotbed issue but i do not know. if you look at when this issue came up, there were some ways is where it was notable. there was a bathroom bill and then in kansas. the democrats ended up winning both races. i will not say that the issue was unimportant, butis, it was not some sort of silver bullet. of course, this is part of the political conversation but i also think it is a divisive, cultural issue.

i do not interpret it that way. host: thank you for coming on with us this morning and talking us through the campaign news of the day. later on washing journal, matthew ll be here to discuss the evolution of reign policy for iran. next, more of your calls and comments an open forum. call in with your most important political topic of the day. we will be right back. >> tonight on c-span's q&a.

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operation. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this. citizens are truly informed. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. the opinion that matters the most is your own. powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back and we are in our open forum section where you can call to talk about your most important political topic of the day. we are opening up our regular lines.

republicans can call (202) 748-8001. democrats can call (202) 748-8000. an independents can call at (202) 748-8002. before we get into your calls, last night, republican presidential candidate nikki haley made a surprise appearance on nbc's 75 as part of a parody. she appeared as herself among the audience, posing questions the former donald -- former president donald trump. >> our next question comes from someone who can -- who calls himself a concern south carolina voter. >> hello.

my question is, why won't you debate nikki haley? >> oh my gosh, it's her, the woman in charge of security on january 6. it is nancy pelosi. >> for the 100th time, that is not nancy pelosi. that is nikki haley. >> are you doing ok, donald? you might need a competency test. >> i'm confident because i am a man. that is why a woman should never run our economy. women are terrible for -- with money. >> he spent $50 million in your own legal fees. you need to borrow money? >> do not do this, nikki. nikki haley, joel osmond. remember that one?

i see dead people. >> that is what people will say if they see you and joe on the ballot. >> that is not very nice, nikki. and i am always very nice to you, except for when i implied that you are not born in this country. >> and did you win your home state in the last election? >> i won staten island and the parts of long island where the fights happen. >> all right. well, that is a new one on me. we have time for one more question. it is actually for ambassador haley. >> i was just curious. what would you say was the main cause of the civil war? do you think it starts with an s and ends with -lavery?

>> yes. i should have said that the first time. >> -- host: nikki haley, seemingly in response. -- that was nikki haley. here is from posting a video, seemingly in response. >> i will not not now or ever support raising the gas tax. finally, let's increase the gas tax by $.10 over the next three years. i am nikki haley and i am running for president. every person on social media should be verified by their name. i never said -- 65 is way too low and we need to increase that. >> the retirement age is way too low. >> i never once said that.

i never said hillary clinton was an inspiration. i went with my friend to a leadership conference where hillary clinton was speaking. host: we are back into our open forum segment where you can call and talk about your most important political topic. calling from bowling green, ohio . good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for the topic this morning of asking if joe biden should be reelected. i have been feeling down about the election lately and having all those people calling in to say that they support joe biden pepped me up a little bit. it will make my sunday little bit better, so thank you. host: let's go to tampa, florida on the republican line. caller: good morning, c-span and

america. i have a suggestion for the trump campaign. it is that during the 2020 election, the trump campaign was showing different rallies in key states. the video of biden faltering, slipping on his words -- in this country, we are civilized. we care about our elderly and we should respect each other. i think he needs to tone that down and focus on the issues that are really affecting americans. i think trump would be a good world leader. host: let's go to scott calling

from los angeles on the independent line. caller: good morning to everybody out there in c-span land. i want to thank the producers or whoever made the decision to bring on cornell west not too long ago. it was a valley that he had and i found it thoroughly enjoyable. kudos to you guys. the reason i'm calling today is that i would like to say a few words about our news media and our white house reporters. i hope you will be gracious enough because i will be very quick. i have thousands of examples, but i will only use three. karin pa -- this is the first one after the cocaine was found in the white house. 16 minutes on the clock before any of the reporters -- if i

knew the lady's name, i'm not familiar with her. she found the courage and she asked about the story. i'm saying 16 minutes in is too long to wait for questions about that. i also saw a well respected journalist -- i have followed his work over the years. i'm a true independent. i do not care about republicans or democratic teams. he was asked questions about hunter biden and they put a message on the board. he cannot give an answer. he walked out of the interview. i saw mr. scott who was fortunate enough to get an interview. this was a couple months ago. not one question about the

border. i'm afraid that they are going to go so far out of their way to put trump in the white house because of their unfairness and incredible lack of interest in stories that concern us. host: troy is calling from long island on the democratic line. caller: good morning. how are you doing? i do not know -- i have a comment. go online and follow the youtube videos where you can find grants. host: let's go to stephen on the republican line. caller: good morning.

i'm calling about one of the gentleman before talking about trumping all about money. i do not think he is right on that in any way. i know that during his presence become he never took any money to be president. i think he takes america and puts it first. i believe we need somebody right now knows how to straighten out the economy and straighten out this country a little bit better. let's t

we are no longer going to be america soon. with all the terrorists coming in and we are spending money on the new migrants coming over. they are being treated much better than our own americans who are out on the streets with to home to go to. i know a lot of them are mentally ill and choose could be where they are, but we have to at least provide housing to them to make this country more appealing and a better loving

place to live. >> we talk to don from new orleans on the independent line. guest: a very somber good morning in the big easy based on the three soldiers killed, assassinated in jordan. and i heard a politician say they were reservists. no, they were active duty members. people look at the history of the citizen soldiers and saeult horse -- sailors and it is the citizens called up that sads a we have to understand the issues to blame the israeli we must defend all of this because if you remember during the trump administration we had covid virus. that had no ends, there was no way the trump administration had the know how to control it. thousands died because of covid. as soon as mr. biden became president he said i will treat the virus like the enemy and he put on his boots and went to work. today we have controlled the virus. we don't here about to uses of people dying. during the trump administration they didn't know what to do. the president, while he was in as the administrator he had the covid. and some of his staff so he didn't know had you to control covid but he was ready to criticize biden when he was president.

at any rate, he calls him slow joe, he is so slow he doesn't do nothing. but as soon as joe became president he actually controlled the relationship we had abroad with all of our commitments to people in power in other countries that we have made agreement to. host: we will go to frank from the bronx, new york, on the republican line. good morning, frank. guest: good morning to everyone who is calling in and to -- i used to be a democrat. the last democrat that i voted for was jimmy carter in 1980. but i changed my registration in 1984 when reagan was running.

i thought he was doing a good job for the country. i wish president trump the best because i think he did as good a job as he could with all the opposition he received from the democrats. and i hope that all of these cases against him are dropped because they are ridiculous. i think they are bogus. and it is election interference. host: let's go to harry who is calling from greenville, north carolina, on the independent line. harry, good morning. guest: good morning. for the world of me i can't understand the people that are watching donald trump for several years lie, cheat and he's even interfering with our

government now. why is this speaker of the house checking with donald trump about what we should do with the border? donald trump isn't working for us any more. donald trump is going to go to jail where he belongs and he's going to try to cause as much problems and scare people and get people against each other. trump university, $25 million he paid. that was coming in on the bus, grabbing in the crotch, that was ok. he lies consistently and everybody knows it and it is unbelievable why they don't take him off the street and put him in a cell because he is a liability and he also is committing treason because he is discussing stuff about the government that he doesn't run any more and he should not be allowed to have access to the

speaker of the house and tell him what he should do. host: let's talk to tracy who is calling from shakeer heights, ohio -- shaker heights, ohio on the democratic line. tracy, good morning. tracy, are you there? guest: i'm here. shaker heights, ohio. i don't understand why you don't have these people and senators around that were in the the insurrection. i think trump should be tried right away from the secret documents. how are we going to let somebody do something that could have been going against our country and all of tease countries we are -- these countries leaving hinds. it is crazy. i just don't understand. >> we will talk to kevin from erie, pennsylvania, on the republican line. kevin, good morning.

guest: good morning. every sunday i sit down and watch the journal and i have my bills out in front of me and i donate to who i'm going to donate to. why is it the united states can't figure, our men into are representing us, we have a budget that we have to stay in. at the don't bother from something. thank you. host: let's talk to midia from long island, new york on the independent line. guest: good morning. i'm just sitting here trying to understand how is it people could continue to support trump. trump is a con man, a racist. i don't understand. our democracy is at state. we need it wake up. -- to wake up. host: we will talk to alicia calling from ohio on the democratic line. guest: good morning and thank

you for taking my call and thank you for everyone else who is calling in to share their thoughts and opinions. that is part of a democracy where we all have an opportunity to share our opinions, thoughts and what we think is good for our country. i'm behind the previous callers, the last one about trying to understand. i'm trying to understand how thinking adults can support a dictator, a person who has already told us they are going to be a dictator. that is anti-democratic. it is difficult for me -- and i'm a teacher and i go in my classroom every day and support the things that have made this country the great country that it is despite all the problems we are trying to work through. but our country has been a

beacon of leadership where other countries strive to build a democracy like our country. then we have a person that comes in and tries his very best and does a damn good job at tearing down our democracy and fabric of our country and we have our country people, the people of our democracy, the government by the people, who choose a narcissist, a bully, a person who takes away the rights of others to benefit not the country, himself. so, my fellow americans, please wake up. understand that we are dealing with a bully who was trying, who is trying to come back and finish his job of tearing down our democracy. >> we will go to ben calling from connecticut on the independent line. guest: good morning. earlier this week in the senate

they passed a bill, they spent $130 billion in schools. ted cruz tried to put an amendment in that said they could use that for safety. democrats put it down with one word, i object and that was it. so, ted cruz tried to put another bill in that would say they could spend more money on safety from the -- i think it was the act that they did, the one biden passed last year. they put that down. so, if there are any shootings in the schools, blame the democrats. because they don't want to take any money from the education department and put that into safety. you can't use that for safety. that is for hiring people and paying tell more money. you have -- pay them more money.

so, democrats, you lost the gun debate. host: we talk to debby from arco islands, florida. guest: thank you for taking my call. i would like to speak to the people calling in about trump. they do not understand that they are in a cult with president biden. he stood up and said he would absolutely unite this country. he's done nothing but tear the country apart. we are looking democracy under him. our military is weak. we have to have military to keep our democracy. if we don't have strong military and strong leader we don't have democracy. we will be a third world country if joe biden stays in four more years.

these people who are talking about trump, let's talk about biden. he is a criminal and his son is a criminal and nobody wants to believe it because biden has them brainwashed. >> this is from per -- berea, ohio. guest: numbers don't lie. you can look at any number from 2021 to the present tense, stock market, gas prices, s&p, unemployment, employment, job creation, things have drastically improveden president biden. facts, not spin. all those complaints the republicans have the economy all but evaporated. now it is the border that is

front and center. and i will say this about the borders. legal immigrants are going to take something from you that you already have. people call in saying i don't understand, i don't understand. it is pretty simple. i ask this question. who is the worst fool, the fool or the fool that follows him why we would like to thank all our callers that called in for the open forum segment. up next, johns hopkins school of advanced international studies fellow matthew frakes will be here to discuss the evotion of u.s. foreign policy toward iran since the 1983 beirut bombing. while we wait, here is a portion of president reagan describing the attack during an address from the overall office in the days following the 1983 bombing.

president reagan: in lebanon we have some 1600 marines trying to help the people of will be -- will be none. our marines were assigned to the south of the city in beirut. just a mile to the north is the italian contingent and then the french and company of british soldiers. this past sunday at 22 minutes after six beirut time with dawn just breaking a truck looking like a lot of other vehicles approached the airport on a busy main road. there was nothing to suggest that it feels any different than the trucks or cars around the airport but this was different. there was a young man on the suicide mission and it carried some 2,000 pounds of explosives. there was no way our marine guards would know it. their first warning something was wrong when the truck crashed

through a series of barriers. the guards opened fire and it was too late. the truck smashed through the doors of the headquarters building where our marines were sleeping and exploded. the four story building collapsed in rubble. more than 200 of the sleeping men were killed in that one insane attack. others suffered injury. this was not the end of the horror. at almost the same instant another vehicle on a suicide mission crashed into the headquarters of the tpraoefrpblg -- french keeping. prior it this there were several tragedies for our men in the multinational. attacks by mortar fire. i called bereaved parents and widows of the victims to express

our sympathy. sometimes this were questions and now many of you are asking why should our men being dying in lebanon. it is true lebanon is a small countries more than 5.5 thus miles from our shores. but every president had occupied it office in recent years recognizes that peace in the middle east is a violate concern it our vacation and allies in western europe and japan. we have been concerned because the middle east is a powder keg. if you are times in 30 years the arabs an inraelis have gone to war. the area is key it the economic and political life of the west and its strategic importance and energy resource and well-being of the nearly 200 million people are vital to us and it worlds -- world peace. if that should fall into the

hands of powers hostile it the tree -- free worlds they would be a threaten. host: we are back with matthew frakes who is a fellow at johns hopkins school of advanced international studies and he is here to talk about the evolution of the u.s. foreign policy toward iran and proxies since the 1983 beirut bombing. guest: good morning, it is a pleasure to be here. host: take us back it 1983. remind our audience about the bombing in beirut. what exactly happened? guest: the 1980's were a period of enormous change in the international environment. we think of the 1980's as the cold war. ronald reagan leading an arms build-up, meet being with mikel gorbachev and a lot of change was taking place in the middle

east. and lebanon, even though it is a small country and perhaps more little known today was an enormous hot spot at the time because there was a civil war going on between the different sects, christians on the one hands, muslims on the other. it had been going on since 1975, but in 1982 things changed we israelis, responding to cross-border attacks from the palestine liberation organization, a similar idea to today, israel launched an invasion across the border into lebanon. president reagan with allies in europe, france, italy, britain, joined in a peace keeping force stationed in beirut to keep the peace there. the idea would be that if the

americans and allies could maintain a peace and restore calm to beirut, maybe the warring parties could come to an agreement. that turned out to be an optimistic reading of the situation. host: so, what actually happened? what was hit in beirut? guest: the americans were stationed, a contingent of american marines, were stationed in barracks at the beirut airport. in the early morning hours of october 23, 1983, a number of months after they had been there, a truck full of explosives, full of it. n.t., plowed through -- t.n. t. smashed through and detonated and the building collapsed. so between the bomb and collapsing building 241 marines

died. this is the deadliest terrorist attack against the americans until 9/11. host: who was responsible, and what was the u.s. response? guest: that was a question it bedeviled reagan. they had to figure out who was responsible. it was a militant group that was a precursor to hezbollah, which is an hamas aligned militia, iran aligned militia today. it is a precursor organization and ties to iran. the americans figured out that these were the people responsible for the attack and figured out that iran was closely involved, similar to today, in ordering the bombing and training and equipping the people who carried it out. host: so, what was the response

from the united states? guest: president reagan heard this news, he was on a golfing vacation in georgia, and he was woken up by his advisors early in the morning and told of the tragedy. immediately his response was we are going to hit them back. but it turned out it was not that easy, and this is a problem that subsequent presidents would face as well, because reagan's advisors didn't agree on what should happen. on one happen his secretary of defense caspar weinberger said we have to figure out exactly who carried this out. we need totally hard and concrete evidence and we need to know exactly where they are and how to hit back. reagan's secretary of state george schultz said we may never have courtroom quality evidence, but he said he has a great

quote, we can't allow ourselves to be the hamlet of nations worrying endlessly over how to respond. we have to hit back. unfortunately, reagan did not hit back in this case. his team deliberated back and forth for a long time, and by the time they came up with plan for where and when and how to strike the moment had passed that the terrorists had pulled out and there was nothing left to hit at. so, this feels a learning -- this was a learning moment for reagan and not necessarily a successful start for his strategy of countering terrorism. but the story continuation. why that was going to be my next question. how did the beirut bombing shake america's thoughts, the government's thoughts to spopbtdzing to terrorism -- responding to terrorism? guest: it was an enormous jolt

for reagan. he called it the lowest of low points in his presidency and george schultz said that it was the saddest day of his life when he heard the news. at that point, reagan had always entered office determined to take a firm stance against terrorism and he said soon after taking office this terrorist attack americans were going to enact swift and effective retribution against them. strong words. host: he came in office during the iran hostage crisis, so this was already on his minds. guest: exactly. and the worry that americans would be tan -- taken hostage plagued limit because he didn't want that to happen to bring down his president i. he knew he wanted to take a fill stance about it but didn't know who who -- how to translate

that into action and the beirut bombing was the initial catalyst to propel him to figure out a strategy and that would not come into clear shape for a couple years later as other issues like iran and libya came into clearer focus. host: what ended up being the reagan administration policy because of the beirut bombing? they didn't strike back immediateliment what did they do -- immediately. what did they do in the future? guest: the problem at the time of the beirut bombing feels -- was that the americans and president reagan were trying to respond to terrorist these and always one step behind figuring out how to react to each threat. they wanted to get ahead of the threats and be pro active and take a more every -- offensive

approach. they said terrorism up to that point was more of a matter for criminal law enforcement or for international terrorism, international law enforcement but that approach wasn't really working. it was hard to find the courtroom quality evidence. so reagan and his team said no, no we are going to redefine terrorism as an act of war and use american military power if necessary to fight it. they put together a multi-facet ed strategy that used different elements of american power in an escalating set of steps, terrorists and in particular state sponsors. host: what was the relationship with iran like before 1983 and the beirut bombings, and the relationship with iran after it? guest: well, iran is an interesting case where it shifts

enormously in terms of the american relations. in 1979, prior to 1979 iran was iranless america's closest ally in the middle east and the shah and american and iran were closely aligned on issues in the region. but then the shah was toppled by the islamic revolution in iran and after 1979, after the iran hostage crisis everything changed and at that point iran was america's number one nemesis in the region. the trouble was figuring out how to hit back against them. but reagan would actually find opportunities to do so later in the decade because iran was tied down by war with iraq from 1980 to 1988 and that was an

etphaorlsly destructive -- enormous destructive period and had direct confront united nations between iran and america. host: i want to show president reagan addressing the oval office following the beirut attack and get you to respond to some things we said. >> let me ask if we were to leave lebanon now what message would sends to those who foment instability and terrorism? if america were to walk away from lebanon what chance would be there for a negotiated settlement to produce a unified lebanon. what would be the future of israel. at stake is the fate of only the second arab country to negotiate a deal with israel. the may 17 accords signed by lebanon and israel. if terrorism and intimidation succeed it would be a did he

ever stating -- stpaeufrt -- stating blow. can the united states and free worlds stands by and see the middle east incompleted into the soviet block or to western europe and japan's depends on middle east oil. the middle east is vital to our national security and economic well-being. brave young men have been taken from us, others grievously wounded. are we to tell them that their sacrifice was wasted, they gave their lives in defense of our national security as were as any man who died fighting in a war. we must not strip every ounce of meaning and person from their courageous sacrifice. we are a nation with global responsibilities. we are not somewhere else protecting someone else's interest. we are there protecting our own.

host: respond to what you heard there. as i listen to this, how you can center the words afghanistan or other countries where american troops were. guest: absolutely. he was describing clearly the goals of what he wanted his strategy to be, which is to display american strengths and resolve and credibility in the region as a dependable partner and ally. now, again, the beirut case was a learning case for president reagan, one that he did not handle perfectly. and actually, only a few months after this, against what he had hoped to do, he did pull the american troops out of beirut. this was seen as a way to preserve american lives was, as you could sense from what he is arguing against in his speech from the oval office there,

there was a lot of questions of whether this mission was worth the price. and eventually he pulled out. it turned out that a number of years later during the lead up to the gulf war when president bush, ronald reagan's vice president, i was trying to convince middle eastern allies to accept american military help in turning back iraq's aggression against the middle east, they said we like the sound of that but are you here to stay. will you see it through? because in the case of the beirut bombing that was not the case. now, fast forward a bit. once president reagan had more time to figure out what we should do about this thorny issue of terrorism, he did come up with an approach to establish america's credibility and reliability and that culminated in the bombing of libya in 1986.

libya was sponsoring terrorist organizations throughout the region and in 1986 using american military forces particularly the air force and navy, reagan hit terrorist targets inside of libya. after that, libya, which had been a growing problem, president reagan called gaddafi the mad clown of tripoli. after that point what had been a growing threat waned in the case of libya thanks to the approach of bombing terrorist targets there. host: let me remind our viewers they can take part of this consideration. we will open up regular lines. republicans can call 202-748-8001. democrats your line is 202-748-8000. independence can call

202-748-8002. you can always text us at 202-748-8003 and we are always reading on social media. let's start with oliver calling from philadelphia on the independent line. host: good morning, jesse, matthew. good talking to you. the country of jordan it seemed like has been a very neutral type of country in a very dangerous part of the world. it is my understanding it is still ruled by a king or queen but if there's an american base they must lean toward being with the u.s. which means we are giving no financial aid. how close is jordan's relationship with us? and a second question is, why was there national guard troops

in the jordan desert when i think of national guard troops as being troops who get activated we there's a hurricane, tornado, flood conditions or civil unrest. remember, they are only part-time soldiers. thank you for your answers. guest: first of all, jordan had and has a complex relationship with the u.s. in terms of which side it comes done on these various issues. in general, jordan is an ally of the united states in the region and therefore american troops are based there now. again, going back into history a bit and gulf war of 1990 and 1991, president george h.w. bush will a close relationship with king hussein of jordan, yet king hussein was not particularly keen on the american mission there and leadership and his

help was dubious at best. but, as i say, jordan has also provided great aid to the united states at various other points. as far as why national guard troops are called out there, my understanding in the current case is that the national guard units that were stationed at this base had particular training in building military infrastructure on a tight schedule. so their training is the reason why they were stationed there. >> we will talk to chris calling from pittsburgh on the democratic line. chris, good morning. caller: good morning. going back to the horrible tragedy we the marines were killed in lebanon, something that has always bothered me about reagan -- i would like to know if this was really reagan's

decision or not -- when he restored all of those old battle ships and new jersey was there we can't figure out anything else to do so on the way out of dodge we will lob some shells in beirut and thumb or noses and head home. was that reagan's decision to do that? guest: yes, it was president reagan's decision to withdraw the troops. as you could tell from what i have said about it so far, it was a messy process. the american troops were stationed in beirut as you saw in his oval office address and he decided to keep them there. we are not going to back down. a number of months go by and the problems continue with the following year the american embassy annex was bombed again,

and eventually president reagan decided it would be safer to redeploy the marines to offshore ships to keep them out of harm's way, but that also hurt their peace keeping mission in beirut and eventually he withdrew the troops. he didn't just lob military, or artillery shells into beirut as the troops were withdrawing. but he did make the decision to pull the troops out. host: given all we know about what happened around the beirut bombing and president reagan's response to it, what lessons can the current administration and president biden take from president reagan's experience with the beirut bombing and iran? guest: i think that the most important lesson from the beirut bombing and president reagan's shaky response in that

particular case was that america needed a firmer, more pro-active stance for terrorism. now, that did not mean the next time terrorists hit let's just go crazy bombing places, no. the strategy that president reagan and his team implemented was a very carefully designed one and one meant to be escalate ed depending on state sponsors of terrorism persisted in supporting those acts. it started with diplomatic initiatives trying to isolate the rogue regimes like iran and libya at that point. then it escalated into implementing economic sessionsment if that didn't do the trick, america would display military power without necessarily using it. and as in the case with the 1980's, when that didn't do the trick, america with respond

decisively with attacks against terrorist targets, in this case in libya. host: do we see u.s. presidents still following that playbook or has a new approach developed since 1983? guest: i think that we have actually seen a checker a check span of this strategy after it was put into affect and put into effect very successfully starting with the recalibration of the approach in response to the beirut bombing and call pin tphaeugt in 1986 with the bombing of libya. unfortunately a number of or issues, the ends of the cold war, iran-contra, derailed america's hold on that strategy as well as terrorism did subside substantially after 1986. it of course didn't go away. then in the 1990's and 2000's it

surged again. and it was after 9/11 in the george w. bush administration returned to this strategy. we often hear president bush 43 and his advisors when they have written or have been interviewed on their response to 9/11, they eastern say, well, there was pre-9/11 and post-9/11 and everything had to start new. and in fact that was not the case. they drew on a lot of the same language preemptive warfare that president reagan and his advisors developed in the 1980's. in recent years we have seen a slackening as america came out of the rack war and afghanistan war and hasn't quite yet found its footing in terms of developing or redeveloping a robust response to terrorist

attacks like this. why we will go back to the phone lines and tack to mary yan from mansville, ohio on the republican line. maryan. are you there. we will go to phil from brooklyn park, minnesota, on the independent line. phil, good morning. caller: good morning. number one, young man, you may be a johns hopkins fellow but there are two things you will never learn there. that the power to destroy will never give you the power to control, and the most important word that no one likes to hear in the human language is no. and it is all this trouble about

iran. you have to understand the iranians are not arabs, they are persians. they have always been moderate. and this whole trouble with this country started when the president eisenhower and his c.i.a. chief at the time, allen dulles, decided to overthrow the publicly democratically elected prime minister because the iranians, the persians, however you want to call them at that time, demanded revenue royalties for oil. so, the thing is young people like you come on shows like this and you have a responsibility to know your history.

and, young man, it is my opinion -- i have been around a day or two -- you need to understand the power to destroy will never equate to power to control, and the worst word that no one wants to hear nobody what their decision is, no. you have a nice day. host: how do you respond, matt? guest: i would say first of all you are right that america's history with iran has been checkered, not since just the 1980's but well before that time and well before even the 1950 1950's. as far as the importance of restraints i would say the 1980's also offer important links for today -- learns -- lessons for today. i said how president reagan

developed the strategy that eventually led to deploy american power to deter and preempt terrorist attacks. but it is also important to note, contrary to our popular view of president reagan as a cold warrior building up the military, he actually only used the military on three separate occasions in terms of combatment one was the bumming of libya which was a single night affair, actually smaller in scale than the current strikes going on. the second was actually the same weekend as the beirut bombing, which was the american invasion of grenada which was the largest ground operation since the vietnam war but also a three-day brief military intervention. and the final one was in 1987

and 1988 against iran deploying american naval forces in persian gulf and that actually did result in a number of brief and small but decisive military engagements. so president reagan did deploy american military power, but he was also remarkably restrained in his use of that for combat. host: let's talk to susan calling from lewes, delaware. caller: good morning. you just mentioned the bombing of grenada. do you think the bombing of green fad was necessary -- grenada was necessary or just a way to divert the attention of the public from what happened in beirut. i will hang up and wait for your response. guest: it is a wonderful question and particularly

enjoyable one to answer from an historian's perspective. you are absolutely right, that these two crises unfolded at the same time, the same weekends. president reagan, as i mentioned was on a golfing weekend in augusta national, in georgia. thought it would be a relaxing weekend. when he is on the 18th a pan holds up the gun shop and demanding two speak to the president but they suggested they go get some beer and didn't come back. crisis number one. crisis number two was the request for american intervention in ground in addition by a -- grenada by a number of nearby caribbean islands. crisis three the next night president reagan was woken up in the middle of the night twice in a row to receive news of the beirut bombing. so a lot of speculation pops up

at the time that because president reagan couldn't figure out a clear decisive response in the middle east he decided to show american military power elsewhere in the caribbean and distract and show american power. well, that actually turns out it was not the case. years later we have been able to find the records of the considerations that president reagan had with his advisors on these two issues. it turns out president reagan had made the decision to launch the intervention on grenada the day before the beirut bombing even took place. so, even though they unfolded at the same time, they unfolded separately and in fact reagan convened in a meeting with his advisors to discuss whether the beirut bombing should mean a postponement or cancellation of the grenada invasion which they

also decided against. but the two crises happened at the same time but the decision making was separate. host: we tack to maria from westville, new jersey on the republican line. caller: good morning. i'm so thrilled that the gentleman from johns hopkins is there because i know he knows his stuff. i would like him to give us a little bit of history to unravel why we are even in this area of the world. because you go over the agreements that the british did and after world war ii how we were elected to take this place in the world but the greatest gain that they had were doing on our dime and our people and how are we no different from israel. i would like him to say why we can take our troops home the way our founding fathers said. thank you very much. guest: well, it is a long

history and fascinating one. you are right that particularly with respect to palestine and the area that would become israel, the british had long held -- it wasn't a colony of the british empire but it was called a mandate after world war i. and after the second world war the british pulled back. it was not actually until president eisenhower was in office in the aftermath that the suez war, another fascinating and complicated episode. but then the british and french french will a -- had a mandate over lebanon so that is why the french were involved there. both the british and french pulled back after the suez war and president eisenhower announced that america would use

its resources to develop deeper ties in that region. now, that was not the start of deployment of american troops and actually, there was not a significant deployment of american troops until the lebanonees -- lebanese civil war in the 1980's but even with respect to the beirut bombing even that was a fairly short lived american presence within the broader context of a multilateral multinational peace keeping force. so, america had increased its military presence in the region but it was not until the gulf war in the 1990's that america kept its troops there on a large scale basis. host: there's an article in "time" magazine entitled ronald

reagan's playbook can offer biden a lesson on iran. what lessons should biden be attacking from our past -- taking from our past relationship including around the 1983 bombing especially when it comes to proxies? we are not dealing with iran itself but proxies. what lessons can we talk from 1983 that could be applied today? guest: i think in the aftermath of the beirut bombing, 1983, president reagan had trouble figuring out exactly -- he wanted to strike back but he had trouble figuring out exactly against who, where should he do it and not were happened. i would say the lesson from that the failure to mount a clear and decisive response emboldened roque states, sponsors of terrorism like iran, to continue their attacks and they did to the point that two years later

terrorist attacks against american targets while not on the scale of the beirut bombing had mounted to an unprecedented level. now, i think the wider lessons from reagan's fight against state sponsors of terrorism after he was able to mount a more decisive stronger sponges particular will you against libya, was that dark particularly against libya that a strong response against terrorism would help to establish a preemptive defense against terrorism. we hear a lot in the news today about concerns over a cycle of revenge or cycle of violence and worker that if america hits back too hard against terrorist proxies or even state sponsors who support them like iran, that

they will hit back on stronger and it escalates from there. history on this issue actually tells us that that is were less of a concern than we hear a lot of commentate others speaking about. he hit against libya in 1986 and iran in 1988 toward the end of its war with attack destroying half the iranian navy in a single afternoon and there were concerns in congress at the time that this military action would lead to an all out direct war with iran. well, in fact it led to just the opposite. iran was increasingly worried that these military, these naval conflicts in the persian gulf were a sign that america was preparing to intervene decisively in the war between

iraq and iran and that prompted iran to accept a cease-fire in the summer of 1988 to end the war. host: let's see if we can get another call it tooking to rich from south point, new york on the in-line. caller: how are you, today? host: just fine, rich. caller: i would like to speak about the fact that reagan and bush took saddam hussein off the terrorist watch list, gave him billions of our tax dollars, helped him build chemical weapons, they sent bechtel over there to manage the building of the plans plants and it just came out the reagan campaign negotiated with iran to keep the american hostages until after the election. truly criminal in my mind. host: go ahead and respond. guest: thank you for those questions. first of all, you are absolutely

right that the united states, during the 1980's, did provide significant assistance to iraq. now, this was -- it had everything to do with context and not for any liking of the regime. a few months after president reagan came into office he wrote in his diary, we we -- we have it available to us. he wrote that iraq, saddam hussein is a no good nut. he had great nicknames for just about everybody. he's a no good nut and his sympathy on the part of his fellow arab states is misplaced because he is trying to build weapons of mass destruction and dominate the region. so, he had a clear headed sense of saddam's evilness from early in the office. so why did america provide aid

to iraq in the 1980's? it had everything to do with its war against iran. the concern was not to help iraq win, colin powell would later come to greater fame as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff in the gulf war, at the time he was working as president reagan's national security advisor and he said our ideal end is to have this war end in a draw where both sides are constantly worried about each other and only each other and that will lock them into a stalemate and iraq is the good demon, he said, to keep iran in check. so, when it looked like iraq was about to crumble, america provided aid to bolster them. but that stopped at the end of the iran-iraq war, and it is

important to notah the americans never -- note that the americans never provided help with iraq's chemical parameters and took significant action to try to curb them even in the early stage and finally i will say the article that came out last year about questions over what the reagan campaign -- this is back in 1980 -- reached out to help keep the u.s. hostages in iran in place, that in the historical community is considered to be not true. there's really no evidence for that. and it has been pretty clearly debunked since that article came out. host: we will squeeze in one more caller, criticize from lind, massachusetts on the

independent line. you have to give us a quick question. host: i want to respond to the question about jordan. i think it is important to understand 20% of jordan's population are palestinian refugees expelled between 1948 and the president so those have to be connected to the question of palestine. and the question of lebanon one of the roots of the beirut bombing, we have to understand is israel's invasion of lebanon and the christian-will -- lebanese murders of palestinians. one thing i have seen in the news media is this talk about defer and i think it is -- defense and it is ironic with a country with 750 military bases and at the want to talk about defense i think the answer is

premature. host: quick response, matt. guest: i think many presidents would agree president reagan said soon after leaving office the middle east was just as were a snake pit of problems when he was leaving the white house as when he unpacked his bags. >> we would like to thank matthew a fellow at the johns hopkins school of advanced international studies for coming on and discussing the evolution of u.s. foreign policy toward iran since the 1983 beirut bombing. guest: thank you. host: we would like to thank all of our guest and callers an social media -- and social media followers. stay safe and wash your hands. have a great sunday, everyone.