unconnected. you are not alone. cox supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up on "washington journal," your calls and comments. author craig shirley discusses his latest book which examines the former president's intellectual strengths as most what he describes as his moral compassion, examining ronald reagan. and then peniel joseph discusses his book on malcolm x and martin luther king, jr. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. monday, february 19, president's day. we will mark the federal holiday

coming up with a conversation about president ronald reagan. we will also discuss today black history month later on. in our first hour, we want your views of vice president kamala harris. here is how you can join the conversation. if you are a republican, dial in at (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also join us in a text with your first name, city, and state, (202) 748-8003. or on facebook.com/c-span and on x with handle @cspanwj. a look at recent polling done on the vice president's approval rating. she shares the same number with president joe biden, 40%.

disapproval rating is at 58%. in a recent "wall street journal" interview, she said she is ready to serve. this morning, we want to know your view of the vice president. on abc's "the view" last month, she was asked about the biden administration's record on border security. the president put her in charge of one part of the border. here is what she had to say. [video clip] vp harris: 2023 was the biggest year with crossings, cities pushed to the brink. do you think this is a crisis, and what can you do to address the root causes. vp harris: listen, first of all, everyone knows our immigration system is broken. ok. the first bill that we offered

right after inauguration was to fix the immigration system. a comprehensive plan to deal with the immigration system. do you think they have taken it up? no. we want solutions. dissolutions are at hand. but frankly, we are in an election year, and the folks that want to return donald trump to the white house would prefer to talk about a broken immigration system instead of focusing on solutions that are at hand and engaging in bipartisan work. let's remember the days of george bush, john, even lindsey graham, who agreed that let's fix this and work together on the solutions. >> but it makes the biden administration look good, and they don't want that. >> what are you doing to work with republicans to try to fix this? vp harris: in the senate, we have offered that there will be

bipartisan work to fix it. it literally was the first bill we passed. i think it is critically important that we understand that they were petty politics at play on this issue, as much as anything. we need solutions. the solutions are at hand. we have to work on them together. we have offered that in our security package coming, $14 billion that we would like them to approve. to address this issue. and senate republicans support it so, hey, let's all participate in solutions if we want to call ourselves leaders. host: the vice president on "the view" february 17 talking about border security issues. we want to get your view of the vice president this morning. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002.

a little bit more from her, and this is last week responding to the special counsel's report about when then vice president joe biden took classified documents and the special counsel's note about the president's memory. [video clip] vp harris: i have been privileged and proud to service vice president of the united states with joe biden as president of the united states. and what i -- when i saw that report last night, i believe it is, as a former prosecutor, the comments that were made by that prosecutor were gratuitous, inaccurate, and inappropriate. october 7 israel experienced a horrific attack, and i will tell you, we got the calls, the

president and myself, in the hours after that occurred. it was an intense moment for the commander-in-chief of the united states of america. and i was in almost every meeting with the president in the hours and days that followed. countless hours with the secretary of defense, the secretary of state, the heads of our intelligence community, and the president was in front of and on top of it all. he was asking questions and requiring that america's military and intelligence community and diplomatic community would figure out and know how many people were dead, how many are americans, how many hostages, is the situation stable -- he was in front of it all, coordinating and directing

leaders who are in charge of america's national security, not to mention our allies around the globe. host: your thoughts on the vice president this morning, that is our conversation for the first hour of the "washington journal." on facebook, leanneays better than trump or pence. chael in plant city, florida, in a text, vice president harris is the result of dei when you hire based on skin color and not other aspects. this one says she is brilliant. and most people are disgusted over trump 24/7. more kamala, please. and this in a newspaper, vote for, harris -- vote for kamala harris.

i am ready to serve, she told the "wall street journal" last week. this was before a release highlighting mr. biden plus failing memory. everyone who sees her on the job, ms. harris says, works fully -- walks away fully aware of my capacity to lead. brenda in arkansas, republican. your view of the vice president? caller: i think she is in the bears meant. she -- i think she is an embarrassment. she cackles like some clown to be a comedian. she has never been to the border and she is in charge of the border. when they ask her why, she says, well, i have never been to europe either. that is the typical kind of answer you get. these long sentences you are giving here now are not anything i have ever heard out of her. she is basically invisible. she is super hidden because the

more people see her, a more they dislike her. so perhaps more democrats should see her. host: brenda come on the border question, this is from axios, they had a piece in mid february about the handling of the border by the biden administration. reality check, saying much of the team has had little control over the factors, including unprecedented global calamities that have pushed millions of migrants to the u.s., decades of congressional inaction, and the state of the agencies after the trump administration. many current and former biden officials say they believe they have done the best considering the circumstances. but others have said the administration has fallen far short on matters within its control. many administration leaders treated the issue like a hot potato because they were politically thankless. the idea that no one wanted to own it came up repeatedly in interviews about the border

crisis, as the humanitarian conditions at the border had deteriorated and the politics surrounding immigration had become a thorn for biden, he becomes scratchy or when the issue comes up, according to current and former aides. it says here on the role of vice president, kamala harris and her office made clear to others in the administration that her responsibilities began and ended with the factors driving people to leave guatemala, honduras, and el salvador, the issues biden had assigned to her to examine. as the migration became more global, harris' team remain focused on the northern triangle and mexico. a senior official told axios she has been, at best, ineffective, and at worst, sporadically engaged, and not seeing it as her responsibility. it is an opportunity for her that she did not fill. sandy in columbus, ohio, democratic caller.

caller: good morning. i am calling about -- the thing i do nothing people understand, how you have to have bills to correct things as far as the border. now, they put out one, like vice president harris said, when they first got in, they had taken it up, and i am going to move forward to the fact that they all got together, the senate republicans and the house, and the senate republicans and democrats, and what they did was they passed the bill over to the house. the house did not say we are not going to accept this part, we will send this back, and let's negotiate to get this situation resolved. what did they do? they went on spring break with a shutdown looming. then they want to talk about who is not doing what. they fire mayorkas. we're is there bill of exactly

what they want? -- where is their bill of exactly what they want? they are supposed to negotiate. host: you are saying this needs to come from congress on the border, that you do not blame the vice president on this because action needs to come from congress? caller: yes, i am saying the action is to come from the body for that type of large situation that it came to. by the way, i watched a special where it does not look like it is the mexicans or the other foreigners bringing the fentanyl and cocaine and all in. it looked like americans that had visas that were caught bringing it back and forth. host: and where did you see that, sandy? caller: on a pbs special. host: sandy in columbus, ohio, democratic caller. on the debate happening in washington between the two

bodies of congress over tying aid to ukraine, israel, and taiwan to some order security provisions, the agreement that was negotiated by a bipartisan group of senators fell apart. the senate took action on just the foreign aid part of it. this is from the "new york times," the clear cost of inaction as military aid languishes in the house. it is not clear whether the losses in eastern ukraine will be enough to move republicans skeptical of sending edges no funding to kyiv. lawmakers on capitol hill say they have not heard a plan for ukraine to turn the tide of the battlefield, even if the supplies were replenished. that is from the "new york times." this is from "washington times" this morning, centrists in the house are looking at a $66 billion bill that pairs foreign aid and border security, the legislation underscores the

urgency to push ukraine's funds. the legislation which focuses on military it would some $47 billion to ukraine, $10 billion to israel, just shy of $5 billion for the indo pacific region. it includes over $2 billion to u.s. central command for recent conflicts in the red sea. similar to a failed senate predecessor, measures. it would bring back former president trump remain in mexico for one year. but the success of the policy requires buy-in from mexico, which rejects it. we are talking about the vice president, your view of her. rhonda in oakland, california, republican. caller: yes, good morning. i am calling to comment on kamala harris -- yes, i do live

in oakland, california, which is the area over which kamala harris had jurisdiction. host: as attorney general? is that what you are talking about? caller: yes, i am. and the reason i am calling is because, as a seniorly aged black female, i find kamala harris to be absolutely hypocritical, and she threatened to send parents to jail if their children were absent from school. she held over someone's conviction even though she knew that the man was innocent. and she called her own boss a

racist -- [laughs] --and now she is out there defending him. you could not pay me to vote for or defend this woman. and then she stands there claiming to be the first black face -- vice president who is a female. it is utterly embarrassing, and i would never vote for her as president or as a vice president on anybody's ticket, let alone the most racist president that i have known in my lifetime. host: so who will you be voting for in the fall? caller: it is none of your business, but it will be them.

host: ok, all right. tim in kentucky, independent. caller: how you doing? thank you for taking my call. i watch y'all every morning, and i also watch the cbs today. i can't get a view on our vice president because i have no earthly idea what she does or what she has done. that is all i got. host: so you think she needs to be more visible? caller: of course. i mean, you always heard about mike pence another vice presidents down the road, but i haven't seen nothing on this. this the most i've seen on her since she got elected. host: ok. fox news, juan williams, an analyst with fox recently said this, this is reported by the hillewspaper, after all

the bad press, the first fema vice president proving to be a campaign asset. she can fire up core liberal voters, beginning with women, people of color, young voters, college-educated voters. those are thes that democrats are targeting for a high turnout and swings, from pennsylvania to wisconsin, stat ty need to win in november. her standing as the first black, first fema, and first indian-american vice president gives her a unique attraction to face the republican party that is dominated by white men and by former president trump. here is the vice president speaking at an mlk day event last month in south carolina. [video clip] vp harris: from our young leaders, i heard that the assault on freedoms -- well, it is lived experience. it is not just hypothetical. think about it. during the height of their reproductive years, this generation has witnessed the

highest court in our land, the court of thurgood, take a constitutional right that had been recognized from the people of america, from the women of america. this generation now has fewer rights than their mothers and grandmothers. that is not a hypothetical. that from kindergarten through 12th grade, this young generation has had to endure active shooter drills. our children should -- who should be in a classroom fulfilling their god-given potential to explore the beauty of the world and instead have to worry that someone might bust through their classroom door with a gun. and when students go to vote, they often have to wait in line for hours because of laws that

intentionally make it more difficult for them to cast a ballot. it is not a hypothetical. but even though our young leaders are clear-eyed about these challenges, i will share with you, they will not be discouraged. they will not be deterred. standing on the shoulders of the generations who came before, our young leaders are prepared and ready for this fight. as are we. host: the vice president in south carolina marking the mlk holiday recently, targeting female voters, young voters, voters of color, and she also kicked off early this year an abortion-rights tour on the 51st anniversary of roe v. wade. here are the headwinds facing the ticket of biden-harris,

"washington times," biden can't make inflation fit for household budgets, pins problems on corporate greed. the president and his aides note the annual inflation rate has eased steadily from the high of 9.1% in december of 2022 to 3.1% in january. it has not brought down russia prices. it means only that prices for many items are not rising as fast as they were 18 months ago. then there is this in the "wall street journal," mishkin voters, anger is a problem for -- michigan voters, anger is a problem for biden. it says, arab americans in this state are crucial for the democrat coalition. here is the reporting, there are lots of voters, like the one that is a future in this piece, and the metro detroit area, which is crucial for any victory for mr. biden in the state,

wayne county, the most populous in michigan, is home to about the united auto worker's international headquarters and the largest arab american community in the united states. thousands of arabs settled here in the 1960's and 1970's and got jobs in the ford plant. today there are 190,000 arabs in wayne county alone. out of about 1.8 million people, dozens have elected leaders in the area and have signed the pledge to vote uncommitted in the february 27 primary in michigan as their signal and willingness to abandon mr. biden unless the administration changes course. that in the "wall street journal." there is also a piece today in the papers about congresswoman to leap urging michigan democrats -- congresswoman talib urging michigan democrats not to vote for biden as a protest of his handling of the israel-gaza war.

georgia north carolina, democratic caller, your next. caller: good morning. i just love c-span, love the way y'all stay up with things going on throughout the world. thanks again for taking my call and for showing what you're showing about that in michigan. i want to say this, the vice president has a lot to do. she is a vice president. i have listened to callers. she has to report to the president. she is the vice president, the assistant. she travels and keeps up with both political sites, house of representatives and the senate. and she has to report information to the president. that is what a vice do. ima vice, so i know what a vice has to do. thanks for showing what you show. president biden is trying to do the right thing. president biden has had a bill they sent over to the house of

representatives. any president -- citizen trump is telling mike johnson what to do. he has presented a bill over there, and all it has to do is sign it. what they do? like the lady three calls before me, they take a vacation. they project every year, congress does, how much vacation they going to take. last couple years, the only been working 100 days out of 365. host: on this border issue, as a democrat, you're blaming the republicans and not the biden- harris white house? caller: the biden-harris is not the one blocking it. if mike johnson passed a bill, they can secure the border better. not to mention, ukraine can have the weapons and things they need to combat against putin aggression. if we don't stop that, putin is

going to continue to try to take over more and more of those countries. and we can't see it. host: i am going to bring up the front page of the "new york times," scenes of arkham -- armageddon as ukrainian cities fall. the ukrainians withdrew under withering bombardment, fighting intense battles across ruined streets to break out of russia's attempt to encircle them. russian warplanes bombed a processing plant in the city's northern outskirts, using incendiary munitions to blow up the plant, unleashing a toxic smog. that from the front page of the "new york times" this morning. how russia treats wounded soldiers as heroes or not at all, this is from the "new york times" this morning.the in an article published last

month that russian dead and wounded soldiers numbered 315,000. multiple interviews indicated that the main aim in treating the wounded was to redeploy them to the battlefield quickly. a lengthy piece today in the "new york times." don in missouri, your view of the vice president. caller: hello. there is a prayer that means putting two words together to form one. dim and wit, she is a dimwit. the sooner biden and kamala are gone, the happier the united states of american people will be. they yak yak yak yak. they do not want to make the heart choices to make the american better.

it would be so easy to secure the southern border. they have got a big army base out there in oklahoma, and you just move those tanks down there and do whatever it takes just to close the dang border. and you don't need a lot of legislation to do this or that or this or that, although mike johnson, he is the greatest thing that has come along for the united states right now, his common sense as speaker of the house. host: what about the worldly vice president has played only border? -- what about the role the vice president has played? caller: she does not do anything she is the laughing woman. that is all she does, she gets up there and laughs. i do not like listening to people say she --

host: sam in greenville, south carolina, independent. caller: well, that was -- hey, not going to go on that. but i am not really a fan, not because of the things he says but just because of her track record in regards to her previous jobs. she has been accused of weaponizing technicalities to keep wrongfully convicted people behind bars. in 2011, there was a case where she argued that they should keep people in prisons because she has a client and she does for her client, referring to the united states government. 2014, she argued the early release of prisoners, saying she needed them to fight fires. you know, slave labor of prisoners, fight fires in california. on top of that, her record on

environmental protections is pretty awful. she kept seven companies that were actual price of the actual cleanup. in 2008, with an oil spill, she got 44 million dollars for cleanup, estimate was less. she wants to talk about how she is the defender of the environment and all this and that. but it is kind of hollow when i look at the record. host: is the environment the number one issue for you? caller: i think it probably should be for everybody. we kind of need it to not collapse. probably should be a higher priority for everybody. host: if it is a hypothetical -- caller: obviously, the better choice, but neither of them are very good. and we're sort of running out of time. so as it stands, i guess the choice for most people is not a

good choice. host: what do you mean we're running out of time? caller: if you look at the reports coming out, just two weeks ago, there were multiple reports sounding alarm bells about how various changes in, say, the current systems going between the atlantic ocean pushing heat into europe, they are on the brink of collapse now. that is a random one. there are countless reports like that coming out every week, and we just ignore them. host: ok, so you went through the environmental record of the vice president. again though, if it is biden- harris versus trump and his vp, who do you vote for? caller: i mean, it is going to have to be biden-harris, but i am not happy about it at i do not think we should just support them glumly because those are the only two choices. i think we, as americans, should

have a little more pride and try to do better, even when faced with two bad choices. and criticizing them does not mean that we want trump or want things to get worse. it is a good thing to criticize because you try to hold people accountable teddy roosevelt said chris's -- criticizing the president is like patriotism. to not do that is servile. so hold them accountable, criticize. host: how old are you, sam? caller: i am 33. host: sam in greenville, south carolina. brian in durham, north carolina, democratic caller. caller: good morning, and he why so much for taking my call, c-span. this is a wonderful topic. i believe that everyone should

consider vice president harris and where she is and what she has done. she has done an incredible amount for the people. she really has. she has worked for the president. one of the things that i think is really important for me, because i am a senior, is the cost of insulin has now dropped down to $35 a month, cut prescription prices across the board, which is important for everyone. she has done a ton of things. she has helped pass the gun safety law, which, as you know, guns are a huge issue in america today. we have to look at how that affects us and our families generations to come. she enacted a $1 trillion investment in the country's infrastructure, $1 trillion to help jobs and build better

bridges and roads, just to help the american people. that is what kamala is all about. i have heard some callers talk about they have not seen her. well, i would rather have someone that is doing the job versus someone who wants to be seen. and she is doing the job. she is out there with her sleeves rolled up and working every day for the american people. and that is what the vice president is supposed to be about. not only that, but is she ready for the presidency? i think from day one she would be a marvelous president for the people of america, because she believes in working for the families of america. host: we will leave it there in durham, north carolina, a democratic caller.

republican candidate nikki haley on the breakfast club radio show a few weeks ago had this to say about the idea of the vice president serving as president. [video clip] ms. haley: she has never been a governor, never had executive experience she was a senator for a couple years but the things that biden gave her, she did not do anything with them. the border, she did not do anything. i have spent more time at the border. when it came to artificial intelligence, he gave her that. she did not do anything with it. america is behind everyone else when it comes to artificial intelligence. i just have not seen her do anything. she went overseas, he sent her to a foreign policy conference. she should have been talking about how we were going to have more allies, philippines, india, south korea, japan, all that. she did not have anything, and china just had their way with the conversation. host: that was nikki haley,

presidential candidate, on the breakfast club, the morning show that hosts any politicians such as hillary clinton, bernie sanders, pete buttigieg. abc was told yesterday that vice president harris has not met his 2020 expectations -- 2024, but also says i do not think it is too late for her to pivot. here is that. [video clip] >> you been kind of tough on her. >> i do not think it is too late for her to pivot. historically, vice president's have always kind of played their role, to basically parrot the president, speak on behalf of the president. batman, we are -- but man, we are in a new era. new jack problems, we need new check solutions. she is the first woman of color in that position, so there think

she can talk about, things she can say. man, we'll remember her in those senate hearings when she was pressing this people, she was like really -- she was prosecuting these people. i want to see her prosecute the case against donald trump in this country. i feel like she could go out there and really the -- let the american people know what is going on. i would like to see her going on outlets like fox news. i would like to see her go in there and mix it up. host: this morning here, your view of vice president kamala harris. patricia in minneapolis, republican. caller: yeah, i think she is a joke. i am not surprised that you have not been playing her ridiculous speeches where she has all this circular reasoning and circular sentences saying nothing. she is in charge of our border. how is that working out? you did show where she was

coherent, she did not say a thing about all the young women dying from fentanyl and getting raped and murdered from all these illegal aliens that are coming across the border. millions and millions. she has got to be the worst vice president in our history. she slept her way into -- host: how do you compare that? how do you say the worst vice president? caller: wait a second, you know what you guys do? when democrats call in and are speaking beautifully about your candidates, you let them go on and on and on, do not interrupt them. and when a republican calls in saying some the could go, you jump in and you try to shut us down and take a soft point. and here -- take us off point. here's another thing, u.s.

people who they are voting for. who are you voting for? you don't have to answer that. we know who every one of you vote for. you all vote for democrats, every single one of you. host: oh, patricia, you do not know that. our role as moderators is to not answer that question, not to give our opinions certainly, we are humans, we have them, but when we sit in this chair, we moderate a conversation. that is our role. we do not give our opinions. we try to facilitate a conversation between you and the debates happening in washington, lawmakers, journalists, etc. larry, alabama, independent. caller: good morning, greta. you know, that lady there must be on fentanyl or something. if she think you don't hang up on democrats, i know for a fact that is a lie. anyhow, let me make my point, and then you can go ahead and hang up on me like you used to. my point with ms. harris, that

is a strong black woman. a lot of strong black women we have out there is representing and helping those here who can't help themselves. for instance, like ms. james who prosecuting donald trump, like ms. willis who prosecuting donald trump in georgia, those are some strong black women. i agree with the guy from north carolina, he absolutely right, she have implemented a lot of bills, especially with this border wall which donald trump, mike johnson, and all them don't want to pass because i do not want to help see biden get elected. but this my second point, for black people's out there who want to vote for donald trump, i would like to know why. this man in 2018 went to the you win -- to the u.n, which consists of a lot of countries, he went and told the u.n. as

president of the united states, is history, he loves his history, he loved the confederate battle flag, he loved the confederate monument. he did not say nothing about george floyd, nothing about the black and brown people and yellows and other people getting brutality by police. he did not say nothing like that. i just want to know, why would you want to vote for white supremacy? host: ok, all right. rhonda in jersey shore, new jersey, democratic caller. rhonda in the jersey shore, new jersey, democratic caller? rhonda, one last call for you. caller: hello? hello. good morning, america. good morning, greta. you look beautiful this morning. you so calm with all the drama. i think kamala harris is more than qualified if something were to happen to joe biden. i am more concerned about our

border and the do-nothing republican congress who has allowed putin to take another city in ukraine. we are paying these people over $200,000 a year, more money than we will ever see on our own, and they are doing nothing. for three years, they have done nothing but campaign for donald trump. i think they all need to resign and put people in there who are willing to secure the border the republicans in the senate passed a border bill that they had been working on for four months, and donald trump said kill it, kill the economy, let the country go into a recession, and that me run again on racist policies. host: but bring it back to the vice president all you said was

that you like her and think she is doing a good job. caller: i know she's more than qualified. first of all, the republicans are going to lose because of women's reproductive rights. they have reversed this country back 50 years. we have gone back 50 years. they killed affirmative action. now they are killing reproductive rights for women. people are leaving this out to come to new jersey in the north because they have no rights. my brother lived in south carolina. he moved there, him and his wife bought a home there because they could get it at half the price you could get it in the north. he is dead. he is dead from covid. he lived there three years, and he is dead because they have no hospitals, have no internet. they are so far behind the times. the minimum wage is less than eight dollars an hour. host: what with the vice president do about those issues? caller: she would fight for

reproductive rights for women, make sure we had that. she would make sure we had equal justice under the law. host: all right, i'm going to get in some other voices. tim in michigan, republican. caller: hi, good morning. hey, the vice president and joe biden, i would just like to see some proof that they are -- like people out there in the audiences and stuff, because what i see, i do not see the proof that people are actually there for them. i see a lot of reporters and stuff. but i would like to know, how does donald trump have thousands and thousands of people at his rallies, then you don't see that at president kamala harris or joe biden's, where they go out

and tell what they are doing. which, i mean, i do not really understand what they are doing because they really do not say anything. they always get very, very angry at maga, whatever that is, that is just a thing where people love their country. so why does that matter if people love their country and see that it is going wrong? they have to come down on them. i do not understand it, whether you're republican, independent, or democrat. also, the last like two weeks i have watched the show, you have had maybe 3% republicans call in on the show or pick up the phone, the rest have been democrats and independents. host: tim, we take the calls

that come in. we do not choose to have only democrats call in -- well, sometimes we do questions that are just democratic or just republican. but when it is an hour like this, we're just taking the calls a commonly. ed in ocean city, new jersey, independent. caller: yes, on the vice president and the president job on the border, first, the united states and charities and churches need to provide financial incentives for businesses to establish businesses in the countries from which the greatest number of immigrants are coming. we cannot handle the flow. and second, working with the united nations, we have to get every nation to agree to take in a certain number of immigrants. we cannot handle the entire number. then on housing, there are many college prep schools and retreat centers, both religious and

corporate, rooms that are vacant during the night, many nights during the year. host: take aspect to your view of the vice president. caller: -- take us back to your view of the vice president. caller: i think all washington servants should resign this morning. host: who will you vote for in the fall? caller: i am a third-party candidate for president. host: ok, all right, ed there. abc's recent polling, the former president fends off nikki haley with a double-digit win and other takeaways from new hampshire's primary. abc news recently came out with a poll that shows she has a double-digit lead in south carolina heading into that primary, which is this weekend coming up. following that will be super tuesday. another politics article, "washington post the role of nebraska that it will play in

the general election, democrats look to nebraska to shore up biden. the trifecta of wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania stood for more than a decade of the last democratic stallworth since republican seeking the white house. with enough votes on their own among the core swing states give government -- to give democrats a majority. cracks in those three states gave republican donald trump the margin he needed to win. but the math has changed since 2020, because congressional redistricting reduce the number ability or a votes in some key states, including michigan and pennsylvania, meaning democrats must look elsewhere in 2024 for an additional electoral vote to tibbett if they want to win -- tip it if they want to win the trio. enter omaha. they need a single electoral vote to push the democrats over the finish line.

bruce in california, democratic caller. caller: how you doing. host: your thoughts on the vice president? caller: she's doing great, one of the best we have ever had. i wish the president a very good and happy presidents' day. jimmy carter, too. i would like to say i would like to see kamala harris show the republicans for what they are. like snakes, so everybody their voting records and show them for what they are, get strong on the insurrectionists. show how they all participated. show how margaret greene, senator greene, she planted bombs on the capitol. they instigate all of this stuff. you know what i mean?

she has to press the supreme court to do the right thing. tell lindsey graham to go to hell because he is one of the insurrectionists, too. they are all betting on donald trump to win so he can cancel all this -- host: to michigan, independent. caller: please, whatever you do, don't cut me off my -- like you do most people. you give these democrat's two minutes, now let me have about a minute and a half. host: make your point, make your point, then we will move on. caller: see, this is what you do. we call in to make your point, and you start cutting us off. ok, let's go back to the very beginning when kamala harris first got her job. she was up in the california, a piss poor legislator out there, could not do her job she did not have a boyfriend out there that helped her get started. she would have never been where she is now.

now let's go back to this last election paired when she was up there on the stage running against those other five democrats, she made it two debates and had so little support that they kicked her out. nobody wanted her to be there. nobody wanted her to be a president of the united states. joe biden selected her because she is a black woman, or joe biden might not have got elected. host: john, sanford, north carolina, republican. caller: hello. host: your view of the vice president. caller: ok, yes. well, i can only say what i see. i think the lady is trying to do a good job, but i am 58 years old, self-employed, and i just see our country changing.

and i do not recognize it anymore. and i like democrats and republicans. i am an american, that is the way i look at it. and i just see a lot of change i do not recognize our country. and i just feel like the southern border, they can do more. you know, so yeah, they are doing a good job, but they are not doing enough. so i hear all this divisiveness, and it is really unsettling. i have two daughters. i am worried about their future. i just think they need to do a better job securing the border where people come in legally. anyway, i think you handled yourself very well with that lady when she went off on you.

host: thanks. will in wisconsin, democratic caller. caller: good morning. i think that the vice president has done as good a job with what they have given her to do, but she does need to step up her game a little bit more. and i think the president and his team could give her more to do. host: in what way? caller: she has not had a lot of visibility. they gave her the border to do, and i do not know exactly what she has done down there. they need to make what she has done a little bit more available to us. i do not know if the news media is not covering her enough, but -- host: did you hear the axios reporting about her role, the vice president and her office make clear to others in the administration that her responsibilities began and

ended with the factors driving people to leave guatemala, honduras, and el salvador, the issues biden a signed -- assigned her to examine. that is one part of the surge of the border, and she is pointing out, or her folks are pointing out that that is the area that she was assigned. what do you make of that? do you think that is not clear enough? caller: i don't think that was clear enough. i pay attention to these things quite a bit. i do not know if she needs to toot her own horn more or if the president needs to really put it out there what she is doing for the country, for the administration. but we just do not hear enough of what the vice president is doing. i have a lot of respect for her, think she would be a very good president. but we need to hear more from her and about her. host: got it.

mark in massachusetts, independent. caller: yeah, i want to piggyback on that last caller. i think kamala harris has definitely stepped up her game in the past six months that i have noticed. she has given more speeches and become more confident. i just think the republicans are going to -- i think if she keeps -- if democrats keep hammering the border and she is a spokesperson and goes out and says, listen, we put the deal on the table and republicans did not want to vote for it, and obviously with the ukraine thing, i think she is definitely coming into her own in the past six months and things you will only get better. host: ok. joe in pennsylvania, republican. caller: yes, i am calling on the republican line. first, i am an american. i have tried to think this through, i think kamala harris

would be a good democratic president because she would fill the shoes right now of kind of what we are used to of a president that is ruled by like a committee of people, so we do not have an individual. joe biden is not running the presidency right now. he even admitted he thought he would have more power, such comments he has made like that. host: who is running it then? caller: i would say there's a group of people -- i forget what they call them, like the dark state or whatever. host: all right. delmar, maryland, a democratic caller. caller: good morning. happy president's day to you. i think kamala harris is doing a fine job as vp. these republicans and maga's or

whatever you want to call them are just so critical of her. she has got a jovial personality. she is intelligent, speaks well, is educated. i do not see what the problem is. she is going to do a fine job. if joe biden doesn't work out, something happens to him or whatever. but she is a great person, great vp. thank you. host: joann, washington state, independent. caller: i think she has improved a lot. i want to see her a lot more before we have to make a decision on that. one question, looking underground at the borders, they dig underground into the san diego area -- are they finding

anything doing that? or following ghost trucks? --or following those trucks? host: ok. mike in indiana, independent. caller: i just want to say, there's a lot of comments about first black vice president woman -- first of all, i do not think she is pure black. and on the border wall, they complain about the republicans not doing anything on the border wall, if they go back and check other policies that biden canceled when he come in and opened the border and welcomed everybody in at the beginning, blaming the republicans, that could be something else. and the ukraine war, they talk about giving the money to them but they cannot account for the billions of dollars we have given to them.

a lot of it is going to pensions and stuff like that. why is that? and abortion, it is a problem, but i think more important problems are the border wall, shutting down the pipeline, and military, letting our military go, and gas prices were a lot better when trump was in there. now that biden is in there, i think they need to go back and check on a few things. people on the election part, 2020 election, i think they're going to find out it was the first biggest socialist election we had by patting the ballot boxes. host: john in oregon, democratic caller. hello, donna. caller: i really respect kamala harris. she is highly educated, speaks well, knows what she is talking about when she speaks.

i believe that the american people need to listen more, stop arguing, try to get along with each other for a change, and admire the fact that she works really hard at her job. host: gloria in virginia, republican. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. i have three comments to make about kamala harris. the first is she needs to take a crash course in geography. so do most of these people who want to welcome immigrants from all over the world. they should not be coming all the way from china or sudan or wherever they are coming from. they should be coming from mexico and canada. canada is a free western

hemisphere country. so canada is not a problem. what is coming through the southern border is a problem. these immigrants are passing through many, many countries where they could have a safe haven from politics or just anything. they could have a safe haven to find a job. that is my comment on that. the second thing that i would like to talk about is i am a diabetic, and the cost of insulin going down has been a benefit. but my concern is in oregon where fentanyl is 25 cents a pill. let me tell you something, that is a cheap drug that we need to stop.

host: do you give the biden-harris white house credit for the lowering of insulin? caller: i give all presidents, anyone in leadership credit for that. the past ones and biden as his administration. it needs to be a furtherance. it needs to go from one president administration to the next president. it needs to be carried forward because health issues are a growing concern. host: we will leave it at those two points because we will take a break. up next on this residence date, historian craig shirley discusses his new book, the search for reagan about our 40th president and then we kickoff our weeklong series today on black history month with dr. joseph, founding director of the

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they always have respect and deference for the american presidency. both democrats and republicans especially fdr, jfk, andrew jackson. there was a lot of things that were not true or being said about ronald reagan about aids and gays in warmongering. i've written a number of books for certain periods in his life, the 1976 election, the 1980 election, his post-presidency, the time between the 76 and 80 campaign which was important. i decided to write this because there are so many misstatements about ronald reagan. i wanted to explore and make people understand how

intelligent this man was. his old aid was a friend of mine, marty anderson. he had degrees from m.i.t. and various ivy league schools and was an intelligent man and he once told me that he rated reagan's iq at 175. reagan read one book per week. he wrote letters. probably the most prodigious letter writer in the history of the american presidency. he generated thousands of letters and also wrote his own speeches, he wrote the radio scripts, he wrote columns. he wrote several books. i consider that to be the true mark of an intellectual is the ability to write. with reagan in his early days,

he developed becoming a writer so this is an intelligent man and no book before has really highlighted his intelligence. host: you entitled this the search work reagan why? -- the search for reagan, why? guest: i did that on purpose. i wanted it to sound church hillian. it's the undiscovered ronald reagan, the undiscovered compassion, the unders -- undiscovered intellect ronald reagan. the american people believe he was a great president i believe that but i want them to also know how intelligent he was. host: peer is how you start the book -- -- here is how you start the book --

explain. guest: there are several examples. in his opposition to salt ii being pushed by jimmy carter in 1970 and 1979. conservatives immediately opposed it. it was defeated in the senate by a democratic senate. he didn't dump all over carter right away per he wanted to study the proposal and learn more about it. he talked to all the arms-control experts and policy experts before he came out against it. he wanted to think about it before he actually took a position. it was a very measured man. many times in his life time at many points in his life, i can

think of 1978 when there was a proposal, proposition six in california which would have prohibited gays from teaching public schools. a lot of family groups and a lot of conservative groups supported it. it was supported by so-called conservative senator john brakes. reagan opposed it. he thought about it and he opposed it. he said this is an abomination, and infringement on frese -- on rights and free speech. he came out against it and he wrote against it. it was way ahead in the polls in the summer. by the fall of 1978, by november, it went to a crashing debate. many organizers and gay activists said it didn't pass

because of ronald reagan. he was not only an intelligent man but he was intellectually honest. host: when it came to his intellect, who or what shaped that conservative philosophy? guest: he didn't have any mentors. he had many people he went to for advice for learning and for education. i can think of jenker -- jane patrick who was his foreign policy advisor. she was a brilliant woman and she wrote an article in 1979. ronald reagan read the article and he was deeply impressed with it, with her mind and intelligence had brought her into the cabinet. he appointed her u.n. ambassador. all through his life, people at

general electric, ed meese was important. thank god he still with us. he was there with reagan even before reagan ran for governor in 1966. it was important for reagan's intellectual development and maturation. he always relied on ed meese at all times in his life through his governorship and presidential campaigns. he was white house counsel her of course and later attorney general. one of the greatest attorney general's in american history. he was always reagan's port in the storm. he always relied on ed meese. i can think of dozens of people that reagan deferred to but he didn't have any one person, he had many friends and associates and misses reagan was most important of all. she was his rock. she was his best friend.

they met on a blind date in 1949i believe and they never stopped dating. they were on a date until he passed away in 2004. this is one of the great love stories of the american presidencies was the love they had for each other. i remember hugh spencer was a long time a who took reagan when he was governor in 1966 and took him to a train station to board the train to go up to san francisco or some place raise money in a campaign. misses reagan went with him to the train station and the two of them embraced and he said he never witnessed such remarkable love in his life. the two of them were just

embracing and holding each other , the allies passed and all this maelstrom around them and they were right there oblivious to everything, utterly in love with each other. host: was she a conservative? guest: yes, she was. she was measured. she didn't let her politics show too much but she always supported reagan and she supported his ideologies in politics and supported his reasoning and supported his speeches. she was never a first lady who meddled in public affairs. what she did say is i am the president's wife and i sleep next to him every night. with his ideology and his policies, she didn't interfere.

she did get involved in personnel matters. when she thought someone was hurting reagan, in the case of don regan who was reagan's next to last chief of staff who was, he has passed away, he was -- he didn't fit. reagan was not being helped by don regan. she told the president, she said you have to fire him. he's not helping you. he eventually did fire don regan and howard baker, a very kind and courtly former senator from tennessee came in as reagan's last chief of staff and really did a lot to nail things down at the white house. he is really an underappreciated figure of american history.

not for his time in the u.s. senate but his time is ronald reagan's chief of staff. host: we are talking to presidential historian craig shirley marking president's day, talking about president reagan. you can join the -- the conversation by dialing in as a republican c-span.org, (202) 748-8001, democrat (202) 748-8000 or independent (202) 748-8002 you can text us as well (202) 748-8003. carl is up first in tennessee, democratic caller. caller: good morning. i just want to say this. why are we stuck still on history that's already been made? are you there? host: we are listening. guest: we are listening. caller: you are doing a good job with your book but we are stuck on history.

reagan did his part when he was here. i was young at the time when reagan was president. the thing about it is we got to get out of the past. got to get out of the past. reagan did a good job so continue to do your book but make sure people get out of the past and get into the present. host: what can we learn from the past? guest: thank. carl's right, you shouldn't have it either or. the great harvard historian said those who fail to study are doomed to repeat it and we for that phrase many times. that is why we study history. like carl said unlike ronald reagan believed is we need to focus on the future.

the president who runs whether it's franklin roosevelt or john f. kennedy or ronald reagan and talk about the future, the usually won the presidency. carl is right. we need to focus -- i would -- i wouldn't say split the baby but we need to focus on the past so we don't make them same mistakes in the future. we also need to focus on the future because we are uniquely american. until recently, i've always believed the future would be better for children than it had been for us. i remember when i was once young as well. host: yesterday on meet the press, the daughter of ronald reagan said her father would be appalled by today's politics, let's listen. [video clip] >> it was more civilized. he didn't understand lack of

civility. he didn't understand attacking another person. he could be pretty pointed in what he would say about someone else but he didn't understand cruelty and that's what we are dealing with now. i think he wouldn't understand that and i think he would be really scared for our democracy. i think that -- i don't -- i think he would address people more than any candidates. i think he would address the american people at what has divided us. in my own opinion, i don't know, this is probably how he would think. our divisions really started because we are also scared. there is so much fear around

whether we will get shot in a mass shooting or our children are or you walk into a store, is -- or a church or whatever. we are scared and fear feeds into anger. it's not sustainable. we don't want to be afraid. there are people on the public stage in the political front to understand very well that synergy between fear and anger and who are masterful at exploiting it. host: craig shirley? guest: i want to be careful here. she is the president's daughter. a lot of what she said i think his rhetoric. it's hard to decipher what she said. i agree with her about people being angry and scared. she said people are scared but there also scared because the border is out of control and they are scared because inflation is out of control and

scared because they don't feel confident about the future in the country and they feel things are spinning out of control under this presidency. i agree with her that reagan didn't understand cruelty. partisanship and harsh partisanship has always been a part of american politics, always been a part of the american presidency. in the election of 1800, supporters of john adams editorialized. they said thomas jefferson was a political hermaphrodite. he had the strength of the men in the softness of a woman. things that were said about abraham lincoln, awful things were said about him. awful things have been said about many other presidents. in fact, all present and all candidates. partisanship, harsh partisanship --

why we study history is too many people forget the past and how things were in the past. people say things were more genteel in the past but things are also nastier in the past. i agree with her but i also have to take it with a grain of salt because she is a career leftist and she is very liberal and is a child of ronald reagan. she did try to lobby him when he wasresident to be more teer on issues. host: you say -- what do you mean? guest: he started out, used to

say i wasn't just a left-wing democrat but a hemophiliac liberal. he voted for frank than roosevelt four times starting in 1932. he campaigned for truman in 1948. he campaigned against richard nixon when he was battling for the u.s. senate in california. he said he didn't even change parties until the early 1960's when he was older. as a republican 1980, he had been a democrat longer than he had been a republican. a lot of the issues, test cuts for the individual and national defense and pro-life and all these other issues, he didn't really arrive at those until a journey of discovery until his 40's.

he didn't run to governor until he was 55. sci is a good example. no president has ever oppose this. the policy had been mutually assured discussed -- destruction. the soviets had 40,000 nuclear bombs and we had nuclear weapons and of one launch the other would launch. it led to the containment policies of harry truman and dwight eisenhower and john kennedy which later evolved under nixon and ford and carter. it was always an acceptance the permanence of the soviet union and the berlin wall. some presence that we are not

going to coexist with the soviets. we will beat them. they say we have superior technology and superior economy and we will develop the strategic defense initiatives we can shoot down soviet missiles before they get to the united states. the soviets were terrified because they knew american technology could produce that type of defensive shield which is being used today in israel to not down missiles aimed at them. onsdi and détente and summary issues, he only develop them after he was 40 years old. host: emily and saint perrysburg, florida, good morning. caller: good morben.

i was going to say hello but somebody already said it. i just wanted to address the aids crisis. i had an uncle that died in the aids crisis and he was delivered to my grandmother in a cardboard box. i would like to hear your thoughts about how you don't blame this on reagan's legacy. guest: i'm glad you asked that question. i'm very sorry for your loss. i have also lost friends because of aids. some of reagan's political policies over the years have's -- political opponents and spun the story that he didn't do anything about the aids crisis which is untrue. napoleon once said history is pack of lies agreed upon. this is a lie about ronald reagan. the aids crisis -- we thought it

was only a fake -- afflicting haitians and hemophiliacs and it only became to realize what it was about. in 1985, reagan was not only talk about the aids crisis in a union address in 1985 but he put millions of dollars into aids research and he and mrs. reagan did a lot of work for the aids pediatric foundation. the actor paul glassner, his wife tragically died of aids through blood transfusion. one of the first people that he heard from was the reagan's reaching out to him expressing their compassion and sorrow in their prayers for he and his wife. the idea that reagan was insensitive to this issue, to

the scourge of aids was untrue. it was a bully pulpit but he committed millions of dollars to research. host: cincinnati is next, democratic caller. caller: good morning and thanks for c-span. i have an opinion of ronald reagan that a lot of people have. i think president reagan really is responsible for a lot of what's going on today. the dog whistles that he used as far as racist concerns i think now have become a bullhorn for what's going on in politics today. i just feel that had that been addressed back then when he was president, we would not have fallen into this situation we are in today. the same rhetoric of make

america great again that trump uses, ronald reagan used 40 years ago. also, i would hope the author would comment on the fact that james garner once said that ronald reagan really wasn't much of an intellectual at all, that he was president of the screen actors guild well james garner was the vice president and reagan basically did whatever they told him to do and he never had an original thought. at that, i will let the author response to what i've said and thank you for taking my call. guest: james garner who i liked is an active very much [indiscernible] i thought he was a terrific actor but he was very liberal. reagan was a very successful president of the screen actors guild. he was elected six times.

he did have original thoughts. one of them was that the issue of residuals. before reagan became the president of the screen actors guild, actors and actresses in hollywood would be paid once for appearances and then they got no money from the studios. the studios rebroadcast a movie or a tv show featuring the actors and actresses and would make lots of money and never pay again the actors or actresses. the actors were upset about this and said you can't keep using make image without paying me and reagan took up the issue of residuals for actors and actresses. i do deal with this in my book. he got the actors and actresses and the studios to pay them each time they use their image.

there are lots of old actors and actresses out there who still get money from their old movies and old tv shows beyond the one appearance for every time the do this. they have ronald reagan to thank for their comfort in their old age. it's a radical thing. it was an original thought and it was a very successful effort by reagan to force the studios to compensate fairly actors and actresses. host: here's a question from acts -- x - guest: the phrase make america great again was one of ronald

reagan's campaign slogans in 1980. i have a political button, make america great again. i don't see why that should be so offensive. don't we all want america to be great again and more prosperous again and safer again? i don't see why it's so contentious. host: another viewer on x - guest: untrue. the average american household [indiscernible] at the end of his presidency, you found 25% more of your money. that's a lot of money. the number of wealthy created in america and more people paid

[indiscernible] in 1980, we had 400,000 millionaires in america and by the time he left, we had 34,000. the american economy by leaps and bounds in his presidency. he created 20 million new jobs, the unemployment rate under reagan came to 4.5%. inflation, the scourge of the american economy which has gone out of control under jimmy carter by 1980 was something like 16%. by the time the end of reagan's presidency, it was down to two or three or 4%. he controlled oil and this is a significant accomplishment. by controlling oil, gasoline in 1981 was a dollar 75 a gallon.

he got oil under control in it was something like $.79 a gallon. in every measurable way, interest rates. it was 21%. when he left office, it was down to 3.544%, i'm sorry, 7%. still a 200% reduction in the interest rate. by every measurable way, reagan improved the lifestyle of americans. he also expanded welfare payments, aids research, all those things to the less fortunate. host: david in san francisco, independent. caller: i almost disagree with everything this guy has said including his so-called facts. regarding the interest rates, jimmy carter, got so bit under

jimmy carter that it got up to 22%. the usury rates, interest rates that were against the law to charge, the usury rates in almost every state in the nation were 7%. for you to say that reagan was great because he got it down to 7%? that's an illegal rate. he was devastating to america. the bigger picture question i would like to ask is whether or not he believed in the social contract, whether or not he had a duty to serve the public or whether he had a desire to serve the super. -- to serve the super rich. i'm reminded of the issue -- i'm

losing my train of thought -- host: we will take your last point. craig shirley? guest: i'm not sure where to start. he didn't articulate. this guy doesn't like reagan. it doesn't like my facts supporting ronald reagan. i don't know where to go with that except that the interest rate came down from 22% under jimmy carter to 7% under ronald reagan. this just a hard fact and anybody can look it up. john adams made a reference to taxes not being negotiable. you shouldn't try to dispute facts. host: write in the book --

how did he become an optimist? guest: i forgotten how well-written that was. he was just a naturally optimistic individual. his optimism bubbled out of his soul. i've studied reagan his entire life and childhood and his radio years in his presidency and i don't recall a time, maybe once where he was really depressed. i remember after the 1976 when

he lost narrowly to gerald ford, he was sad about that. i point to a lot of instances where maybe it was stolen from him with the shenanigans with new jersey and the illinois delegates. he lost so narrowly to gerald ford. if you look at so many of his things, used to say that you don't compromise principles but compromise in terms of getting things done. as governor, he learned to compromise like an welfare reform. he took a lot of deadbeats off of the roles but also increased welfare payments for the truly needy while saving california billions of dollars.

the tax cut bill which was so-called economics, he called for 33% tax reduction. he compromised at 27%. he believedd you compromised within go back to get what you want. in case after case, he compromised but he compromised to his advantage. host: here is another viewer in a text. guest: reagan's compassion got the better of him. he saw the dictates of terrorists murdering american hostages. he tried to make it deal with the iranians. he made a mistake with it.

it was a mistake out of compassion. it wasn't a mistake -- nobody made money or nobody gain power or anything. he got bad advice. i wouldn't say it was a good idea but it was a good idea that went awry. fighting communism is a good idea. trying to negotiate with terrorists in iran was not necessarily a good idea. fortunately, reagan courageously and manfully and truthfully and endearingly went on national television and bit the bullet. he said this happen on my watch and it's my mistake and i take the blame for it.

it ended up because he was so forthright and set up the tower commission which was chaired by senator john tower of texas. they were charged with getting as many details as possible and issued a very harsh report on the mistakes of the reagan administration involved in iran-contra buddy took the blame. is it will mistake -- it was a mistake made out of compassion. host: let's go to his reelection campaign. this is his second debate in the issue of aids and mental fitness comes up. [video clip] >> i want to raise an issue that i think has been lurking out there for two or three weeks. you already are the oldest president in history and some of your staff say you were tired after your most recent encounter with mr. mondale. i recall that president kennedy

had to go for days on end with very little sleep during the cuban missile crisis. is there any doubt in your mind that you would be able to function in such circumstances? >> not all. -- not at all. i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i'm not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. [laughter] [applause] if i still have time, i might add that it was seneca or cicero that said if it was not for the elders correcting the mistakes of the young, there would be no state. host: that line there, what do you make of it? what does it say about his

intellect? guest: this is an extremely intelligent man. the ultimate put down. the elegance of it, the fact that it was 1980. the elegant put down, there you go again. getting capital -- and encapsulates everything that was wrong about carter and what they were saying about reagan all summed up in one sentence. there you go again. the age issue, he banished it. i remember in the 1970's when it seemed like the presidency was getting out of control, we suffered through 17 long horrible years from the beginning of the assassination of jfk. we've gone through nixon's

presidency and resignation and the egg noble humiliation of watergate -- the ignoble humor lesion of watergate and gas lines and pet rocks in ford's presidency which i think historians are still trying to evaluate fully. cartersville presidency by common agreement. from 1963-1980 so i remember the presidency was too big for any one man. we needed a president to handle domestic policy and then one for foreign policy. reagan was elected in 1980 and all that talk was gone. it was banished. one man can be a successful president of the united states. he banished that handwringing. from the national agenda. as far as age, he always said is

humorous. putting down walter man u -- walter mondale's youth and inexperience is the perfect response to the so-called age issue. he told reporters in 1980 campaign, if anybody had any doubts about him which he didn't have any doubts, he would submit to a mental acuity test if he needed to. he was tested every year for psychological testing and he passed with flying colors every year. this is a very well read and well spoken individual. the alzheimer's afflicted him, the onset didn't begin to affect him until six years after he left the presidency. host: not in his final years of

his presidency? guest: no, go to google and in december of 1988, he did a talk with the university of virginia law school and look at this man and you tell me this man is in complete control of his faculties and at the top of his game. the interplay with the students was terrific. he was quoting the constitution and the boundaries and the framers and his memory is terrific. also his farewell address that he gave in january of 1989. this is a man fully in control of himself. everybody i know from ed meese, jim baker, everybody on the white house staff that i knew well that new ronald reagan, everybody said that reagan was just as sharp on the day he left office in 1989 as the day he entered office in 1981.

host: presidential historian craig shirley with his fifth book in reagan. thank you for the conversation. guest: thank you very much and happy presidents' day. host: same to you. we will take a break a in 30 minutes, we will kick off her weeklong series on black history month with dr. joseph, founding director of the center for the study of race and democracy at the lbj school of public affairs at the university of texas at austin. first, we are in open form after this break coming your chance to weigh in on any political or public policy topic on your mind this presidents' day. start dialing in, republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000 an independents (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪

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continues. host: we are back in open form this morning for about 30 minutes, any public policy or political issue undermines -- we start with presidents' day which is a federal holiday. this is from usa today -- on this presidents' day, you can tell us your favorite president. or any public policy or political issue. more from this article --

that is from usa today. colorado, independent. hi there. caller: good morgen. much like the people who spout the constitution without reading it and rewrite the history of the founding fathers, saying they started this country against taxation when it was really to steal land from indigenous people and inserts slaves to build every thing for them, it seems your previous guest wanted to rewrite the history ronald reagan and i am a child of the time of ronald

reagan. we are still paying the price of him injecting steroids into the capitalist system. the children of that era and the children now are still cleaning up the mess that ronald reagan made. we are the ones that have to continue to do so to the point that we are facing a human extension -- extinction event. it's amazing you want to rewrite this history and say ronald reagan was this amazing president who did these amazing things for the country when all he did was make it so that i will never own my own house, my children will never own their own houses, the corporations will. jeff bezos will own the house as we all live in. elon musk will control our media and control what you all put on the media. because you want to rewrite history and act like ronald reagan was an amazing president? host: you keep saying we we had

craig shirley on who gave us his viewpoints of the book that he wrote. karen in belfast, maine, democratic caller. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. on this presidents' day which is actually, i think it was joined at one point to recognize both washington and lincoln. i wanted to call folks attention to something they may not be familiar with and that is the writings of heather cox richardson. she does a daily letter called letters to an american. she is an historian and she teaches at boston college. her work is simply incredible. actually, it's just her letters which are available through email.

she has a podcast that reads her letters every day. i don't know if she's ever been on c-span. i would highly recommend it if you haven't. host: thank you for the suggestion. john in ventura, california, republican. caller: good morning, everybody. two things to say -- first of all about kamala harris , remembered the republicans passed hr2 which would close the border way better than the senate bill recently which kept the border open and cap people coming through. kamala harris could have supported hr2 but she didn't. the second point i want to make is more important. it was disturbing for me to hear that there was a toxic smog and all the stuff going into our atmosphere and polluting the world and the war itself in ukraine is nothing but endless

pollution and endless fighting and endless killing. it's time for joe biden to divide ukraine, give russia part of it, stop the war, give russians part of ukraine and give ukrainians part but they had to step in and stop the war and stop funding the war, stop killing people, stop polluting the world. you've got to divide ukraine up and and this madness. host: john is referring to the front page of the near times. -- of the new york times.

greensboro, north carolina, independent. caller: hello. i remember reagan. i was in the workforce when he was president. the air traffic controller strike that he struck down, host: we are listening. host: newark, new jersey, democratic caller, are you ready? caller: yes, i am. happy presidents' day.

i made jersey boys so vote for the only president to be married in the white house from jersey. i had a question and i would hope you would ask your following guest. about the daughters of confederacy, how they change the education system, i think it's important we discussed this because it's almost like people are living in two different worlds and until we talk about that, i feel we cannot get anywhere. it was forceful how they change the education. i think a lot of people don't know that and don't understand that. i think it's really important to talk about that. thank you and happy presidents' day. host: we are in open form and you can talk about presidents' day or public policy issues. republicans, (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000 and

independents (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. tim in illinois, republican. caller: hello. during the recent deep-freeze in the united states, if we had windmills, how many of them would have froze up and not delivered power? host: we will go to bruce in buffalo, new york, independent. caller: thank you. [indiscernible] i don't have a lot of time. host: i cannot hear you. you sound muffled. are you there? caller: can you hear me now? host: that's much better. caller: we don't have much time so the best president in -- in my lifetime is bill clinton.

it was after he beat newt gingrich on the government shutdown and they work together for a short time. other than that, that was fantastic, the great leaving statement he could make. the worst president isw and he is a criminal and should be in jail. i don't know much about millard fillmore or franklin pierce. he wasn't even nominated but his own party. happy presidents' day. we are faced with the worst choice of any electoral decision in my lifetime. goat nikki. host: pew research and august of 2023 did a poll about american views of presidents. republicans view reagan at the time the former president trump as the best recent presidents. as far as democrats, they found

that around two thirds of young democrats say that the former president barack obama is the and half or more democrats and all the -- in all age groups named obama as the best president younger democrats were likely to say this while 64% of black and asian democratic -- democrats named obama, smaller shares of white and hispanic democrats say that. what do you say this morning on this president's day? william and georgia. hello. caller: happy presidents' day. i believe reagan was the deadliest president ever. he tore down mental hospitals. he did it nationwide, and then

he flooded our streets with crack cocaine. republicans say that he was a great president, they are happy that he destroyed the black community. they are happy. i think now -- what you do will come back on you. now you see the pharmaceutical company flooding rural america in droves. what happened to us is happening to them. host: william in ohio. what is on your mind? caller: i think barack obama was one of the best presidents. donald trump was the worst. he still controls congress. thank you very much. host: now we go to akron, ohio.

it is your turn. caller: this is my first time calling. i have been watching for probably 10 to 20 years. i was calling about president trump. when he came in and did his first state of the union address, he talked about changing policy, the policy of the polls because he was trying to keep it where all these illegal immigrants could not come in. it was changed in 2007. a judge made it so that children were held for 21 days. that trickled down to mexico or wherever. people started hearing this about how did they get into america? well, when trump did this, he

said, we need to change this policy. they started calling him a racist, a democratic racist machine that the democratic party always does. if you do not agree with them, you are automatically a racist. trump came in right away trying to make policy to change immigration, but no one would listen to him. the democratic party racist machine could not have that. so then, people are coming in, as he was president, started implementing. if you read a few books out there, he did three things when he was president. you are not allowed to come into america unless you are allowed through asylum.

keeping the immigrants from coming in and the three country rule where you have to go into the first country that you are fleeing asylum from and you have to stay there. if you are being brutalized in your country, you are not going to go through three countries. the reason is that illegal immigrants are coming in is because joe biden opened up the border. it does not have anything to do with root causes. these people are working in jobs where they are at. it is all a big lie and peoples -- people need to start studying. host: thank you for calling in. we appreciate it.

john in lancaster, pennsylvania. caller: i want to address ronald reagan's presidency. i did not think he was not great of a president. the pennsylvania economy and the changes that he made to it, billy joel even wrote a song about it, about allentown. heavey -- he deregulated a lot in the industry. you have what he instituted. there was a lot of things that the average worker could benefit from. >> franklin, michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. you always do a great job and i

enjoy this program. one guy called in but then disconnected for some reason to say ronald reagan -- do you remember when he fired all the air traffic controllers? he was -- that was also. from there on, it was a hard time for union members. that was awful that he did that. no one mentioned that. he was not that great. host: got it. we are going to rockville, connecticut. hello, susan. caller: i am also calling about reagan. what i want to say is a little anecdotal, which is only so helpful. i was on the front lines and had just graduated college. i was doing social work. and at that time, people needed

help and all kinds of ways. we would refer them to the agency that could help them. people think i am a dinosaur, but we were just switching over freight to be on the computer. at the time we had a big book of social services. when reagan came into be president, that book just kept on shrinking and shrinking. mr. shirley said about getting people off the role, old people are eating dog and cat food. school lunches -- catch up with considered a vegetable for kids. he really started a for people to suffer. i have to tell you, greta, i actually had a nervous breakdown because i could not help people, and he made it so that i could not help people. host: susan there in connecticut. good morning.

caller: yes. i was calling because i feel like we need an independent to run for president. it would be nice if nikki haley would run independent. talking about presidents, i have to say that nixon saved my life. he got rid of the draft. i was up for vietnam that year. so i have to say nixon, he was a croak. host: amelia, independent. hello. caller: hello. i would say that the president of my lifetime was obama. he helped millions of people through insurance and everything. i just think he is the best. the worst, it is pretty obvious it is trump. all the people who defend trump,

i have family and friends you are always defending him, even the comment about him wanting to be a dictator. i had a discussion with somebody saying, he is just being sarcastic or he was just joking. i believe everything that man says. he is going to be a dictator. he is up there. these are things that really terrified me. i do not want to be called a communist or anything, but i do believe that poor people, when they are in trouble, we do not want socialism. that is all i have to say. thank you so much. host: you can find it on our website had of the primary.

michigan gop appears. early in person voting began in michigan, a fight to control the gop plunging republicans deeper into a political maelstrom with rival factions potentially barreling towards dueling nominating conventions. as if things were not already confusing. they will host a traditional primary and then a caucus style convention a few days later. there could be to be oaken convention's different parts of the state, each claiming legitimacy. as far as michigan's delegates, the state of the convention will be at stake. the other 16 will be decided during the primary which

includes nine days of early voting. this is in order to comply after moving up the primary date. grover and virginia. hello. good morning. we are listening to you. listen and talk through your phone. are you ready? we are in open form. caller: donald trump is the worst president we have ever had and probably will ever have. from the time he walked down that escalator, that is when all the trouble started. he could not steal enough on his own, so he brought his children into the white house, to help him steal. he could not even run his

company in new york. he has never been a mayor or anything of any city. how are you going to run the country come if you cannot even run a county. host: weevil go to donald in kalamazoo, michigan. republican caller. caller: there was some kind of interference on the line. i have a few things to say about presidents. it depends on how you feel about war, of course. world war ii was democrat. roosevelt and truman. another was democrat, truman. vietnam was jfk. what a mess that was. when he was president, we had the bay of pigs, the missile crisis and the start of the

vietnam war. people think he is a great president. then there was nixon. he was not a good man, but he did nothing to hurt our country, not one thing to hurt our country. carter? everybody knows about carter. that was not his fault. the democrat party did not want him to be president, so they did everything they could to make sure he would not get we elect. george bush? there was a war, but he did get saddam out of kuwait. but he did not start the war. the u.n. hired him to get saddam out of there. host: and george w. bush? caller: yes. george h debbie bush. host: i'm asking about george w. bush. we were going through the presidents and wars. caller: yes.

old man bush was in a war in iraq to kick citywalk -- to kick saddam out of kuwait. that was not a war that he started. the u.n. hired bush to do that, ok? host: hector in florida, independent. caller: yes. good day. a great program. i think the best president that we have had is our current president. when you look at president after president speaking about infrastructure, he is -- check the records on employment. look at the stock market. when you look at it, it is unbelievable that the man has

accomplished so much with all of the obstruction from the other party. check the record. you have the history on employment, the stock market, solving infrastructure. the interest on your credit cards was no longer tax-deductible. that was to be attracted, which affected a lot of poor people at the time. i mean, this man is not getting the praise that he should. this man is unbelievable. check the records. you have a lot of people calling in and telling lies. it is fantastic. host: you might be interested in this headline. under threat from a world in

turmoil. the war in the middle east poses a major risk. chaos threatens the supply chain. mary, democratic color. let's hear from you. caller: my humble opinion, i think about reagan when he was president. i was able to buy my first home. it was the highest rate i could remember. and the next president we talked about, good or bad, all presidents have challenges, but the one that scares me the most is donald trump because of the way he talks about everything. he puts a lot of fear people, especially at my age of 78 years old, i am afraid of what he will

do when he becomes president because he has a much vengeance to settle with people, and that is not good. that is my humble opinion. host: we believe it at that and take a break. after the break, we will be joined by the director. we will talk about the significance of black history month and his books on the lives and legacy of -- the life and legacy of martin luther king jr.. >> in the weeks that lie ahead, the famous and influential men and women will occupy the seats and will have a lot to say about his view of the society in which we live today. >> saturdays at 7:00 p.m. eastern, airing the 10 part series, free to choose, featuring milton friedman. he coproduced the series with

his wife and fellow economists rose friedman, at it first aired on public to -- television in 1980. they also wrote a book with the same name. the friedman advocate limited government intervention in the economy and and social politics. other topics include welfare, education, equality, tumor and worker protection and ration. watch free to choose on american history tv. for c-span's voices 2024, we are asking voters across the country, what issue is most important to you in this election and why? >> the most important issue is immigration. >> economics. >> i think that homelessness is an issue that needs to be addressed. >> we invite you to share your

voice. select the record your voice 10 and a video telling us your issue and why. c-span voices 2024. he a part of the conversation. -- be a part of the conversation. >> current, nonfiction book releases and bestseller lists. the top of industry news and trends through insider interviews. you can find it on c-span now, our free mobile app, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: joining as to help us kick off the series on black history month, the director of the university of texas for a and democracy.

you also wrote a book, the sword and shield, the revolutionary lives of malcolm x and martin luther king jr.. tell us about the title. why did you explore these tbl men? guest: the title of elite refers to the way in popular culture that both of the men are depicted. malcolm x is depicted as this avenging sword of the black community, the embodiment of black rage. dr. king is depicted as this nonviolent person who is america's apostle of nonviolence , the shield of the community. i think the argument is that they are both of those things. they are to be of sides of the revolutionary quite. malcolm x is not only america's political shield or political

sword, he is also a human rights shield, the prime minister and dignitary of the statesman. martin luther king jr. is not just the apostle of nonviolence. he is a political sword. he fought against the vietnam war. he comes to believe in the poor people's campaign that makes him very dangerous. the idea of the sword and the shield and to really juxtapose them and blend them to show that they are much more similar than we ever give them credit for. host: how did they influence each other? guest: malcolm x, when you think about it one word concept -- what did he achieve and what was he after? that word was dignity. dr. king, it was citizenship. malcolm x defines dignity as

something that we are all born with, god-given, are intrinsic humanity. citizenship is just external recognition of dignity. for many years, he disagreed with king because malcolm believed it was something that we had it, and why should we be marching and demonstrating for that which we already have. that is why malcolm was never a conventional separatist. he just did not want to organize through mobs. it is reasonable. king, his conception was citizenship. but he was going for was beyond the voting rights, beyond the civil rights act. what king wanted was a guaranteed income, a living wage for all americans.

he wanted the end of violence. the way in which they influence each other, over time, they come to see that you need both. you need not just dignity but citizenship. and not just citizenship but dignity. he comes out once he leaves the nation in full support of voting rights for black people to organize around the ballot. he is still interested in self-defense. malcolm x never calls for violence, he is always interested in defending their own dignity and humanity. we see the convergence king becomes much more outspoken about the values of black lives. he becomes somebody saying not

only black is beautiful, but he becomes somebody who is criticizing white supremacy. king is not criticizing white people but white supremacy in the system and the ideology. the political belief system that allows for antiblack violence, that allows for racial segregation, police brutality. we start to see king as this real revolutionary, even though he is against violence. they both come to really influence each other, but malcolm x, his criticism of the vietnam war in 1964, his travel overseas to africa and europe -- he traveled to over 14 nations. malcolm became revolutionary. he became a muslim and had this foundational, islamic ethics, this idea of a moral center that

also connected to a pan african and third world revolutionary human rights agenda that will really impact dr. king. malcolm came out against the vietnam war before dr. king and malcolm is the biggest critic of american power, both institutional racism and imperialism, and what america was doing in the african congo, the congo crisis of 1964 where america backed the dictator who had helped the murder of the first democratically elected minister. the u.s. was on the wrong side of that battle and malcolm says that publicly, and by the end of

1964, different african leaders are having a debate in the u.n. about the way that the u.s. is backing mercenaries through the hostage crisis. malcolm is constantly speaking about this. over time, we see dr. king stepping into the global context in a way where he is absolutely influenced by malcolm x because malcolm x becomes black america's prime minister and becomes a statesman who is talking about human rights, who is visiting and meeting with leaders and presidents, and kings and queens. and he was really forging those networks that transformed the civil rights movement. host: our conversation this morning, the legacy of malcolm x and martin luther king jr..

here is how you can join the conversation. you can also text us including your first name, city and state by texting (202) 748-8003. you said one of the reasons why he wrote this book is because he did not want people to think that you had to be team malcolm or team martin. explain that mindset and where it came from. >> it comes from the fact that in a lot of ways, the legacies of both malcolm and martin, in certain ways, they have been hijacked by different groups of people. we look at martin luther king jr., his legacy has been hijacked. there was a huge movement in the 15 years after his assassination

in memphis, tennessee. everyone should check out the museum there. it was a huge movement to recognize them as a revolutionary against militarism, materialism, against racism. that was great, but we lost something in winning. what we did was, we drained him of his radical and revolutionary power. the new book by my friend jonathan is a great book to check out on this. but also, coretta scott king was a revolutionary with her power as well. after malcolm's assassination, what they tried to do was say that malcolm was a man of

violence, a man who had been a dope dealer and drug paddler, which is something that he admitted and he was considered unworthy of being a leader. it was like people, the everyday black folks in harlem and tanzania, and in mississippi, adding california saying no. and there were some white people and white radicals connected to the socialist workers party. lma collins -- they celebrated malcolm and through the publication, his autobiography sells over 6 million copies and malcolm becomes the people's hero. when you think about malcolm

versus martin, what the history books do not teach us and what classes do not teach us is how to think about them, how to critically analyze and see who they influenced in their time. what were their strengths and weaknesses? but also, why did their legacy endure? malcolm was a man of violence and war and king was a man of peace. who does not want to be with the person of peace? they convince you in school to choose. malcolm was angry. they say he was hated white people. all these things that are not true. and then king is this soft teddy bear. he forced people to pick king, but when you find out the story, which is what i tried to do in my book, now we have a series

called mlk acts, showing the way that their lives actually unfolded and when we look at their lives, they have so much in common with each other. but they were human rights activists who tried to transform american democracy and transform the world on behalf of justice in granular ways that continue to reverberate today. anybody saying that black lives matter or the women's march, or the march for our lives against gun violence, or marching for people who are clear and lgbtqia, or marches against islamophobia, or marches against anti-semitism -- you have to look at the political thought, the activism, the revolutionary lives of malcolm x and martin luther king jr.. host: the eight part series

premiered on the national geographic channel earlier this month. additional episodes will be released throughout the month. you can also find them on disney plus and hulu. before we get to calls, talk about their relationship with each other. guest: they meet only once march 6, 1964. now connect said seeing dr. king given the i have a dream speech, he is at the march at washington and sees the speech. he is impressed, even though he is critical. they met during the senate debate, the filibuster of 1964. they had a cordial meeting for a couple minutes and took a few photographs together. they were planning to meet again, although that meeting never happened. malcolm is in the audience in harlem, when king comes back from winning the nobel peace prize. malcolm listened to king do a

speech that he later praises. when you think about their relationship, their relationship is one where they only beat one time, but they are also on each other's mind. malcolm was the one he was more critical but over time, they are telling audiences that he and king have the same goals. malcolm says king does not mind getting beat up. very interesting. king makes the statement, but he also sends a private, personal no, telling her how fond he was of her husband. there is respect and admiration.

february 4, 1965, right before he is assessed needed, he speaks at a small church to different students and activists. coretta scott king is there. he is on the podium with her and he tells her that he has nothing but admiration and respect for dr. king and he is not there to make their lives harder. he wants to make it easier so that people can see that there is an alternative. very interesting relationship. it is actually a very close relationship and cordial relationship because king understands benefit he is getting from people characterizing malcolm x as this kind of potentially violent or dangerous alternatives. there is a good cop bad cop

approach that sort of unfolded organically during their lives. host: canton, michigan. you are up first. caller: good morning. thank you for your thorough research. it has been presented in narratives that in terms of both malcolm and mlk being black internationalists that they have different philosophies in terms of israel. we know that malcolm's visit in 1964 was very critical, as far as the mistreatment of palestinians. it influenced the black power movement, as far as solidarity. was there really a stark difference in viewpoints between malcolm and king, in terms of palestinians?

do you think that malcolm and his legacy has influenced black lives matter, as well as millennial and gen z? guest: yes. the way that malcolm would view that conflict is as an anti-colonial conflict. the deeper he gets into the middle east, he certainly does visit palestine for a couple of days and actually meets the head of the plo and meets with nasser. he named one of his children after him. he views it as an anti-colonial conflict and is very critical about the way -- he looks at palestinian refugee camps and is very critical. in terms of the record that we

have, people say, what would he have? it becomes more of a hypothetical. always in support. i know he is in support of any group of people feeling any kind of -- he does not go on the record in the same way that malcolm does in that situation. i think his version of solidarity continues to reverberate with different groups of people. and that includes people who are interested and focused on that conflict today.

host: michael in california. go ahead. caller: dr. joseph, i wonder if you can comment on what they said about evolution and their understanding of competition and cooperation. modern day, even today, we view evolution as being synonymous with competition. we view education as being synonymous with competition. and it is not. evolution does not lead to optimization and education has nothing to do with competition. the reason we view it that way is because of herbert spencer, who pushed eugenics in the 1960's and tried to use modern science and evolution to establish slavery. we have that same system of

worshiping the bell curve. if you have a group of students who do not do well on a separate them. cut off the top and put them in separate classes. even if you have the worst performing kids, you take within that group and we put a bell curve on that. 5% at the front and 20% on the backend. you do not create another bell curve can you flatten it so that every kid gets in a. we do not do that. every kid got a and every one of my classes. and it is the expectation that we know you are able. it is my job to give you the tools to do that. it is wonderful. host: dr. joseph?

guest: thank you. malcolm x and his final organization had a whole comprehensive educational plan. they had a plan for education, culture, voting rights. with the call i saying about school and not putting people in a bell curve was relayed to provide investment in public school in harlem and new york city, predominantly black areas where kids could really achieve. certainly, i think that dr. lewton -- dr. martin luther king jr. would have agreed. not interested in this ranking and hierarchy. all these children who are being marginalized can succeed and achieve but are not being given the structures or the resources to do so.

since dr. king and malcolm x's time, there have been more systems of punishment and private nation than investing in systems of educational opportunity that would really impact the outcome and impact the way that children of all races and backgrounds, but especially black children can succeed. host: gary in north carolina. caller: heather mcgee and i were on c-span, and i was the prejudice caller. i do not remember -- i do not know if you remember that or not. it was quite famous. host: absolutely. caller: i find it amazing that i'm calling in for a new guest who is a black activist and book writer. i had a few things to him a few

questions. i have been studying the last few years since it happened. he connected malcolm x to the second amendment and attached it to dignity. the second amendment is more of a self-defense thing, not so much dignity and people's feelings. do not use the second amendment for that kind of thing. that seems like a radical statement. i hope you might back off of that little bit. racism always revolves around inconvenience or the word no. that usually kicks off racism arguments. as long as things are going people's way and they are happy, racism never comes up, but we are inconvenienced by other people and we do hear the word

no get acquainted to raise accusations and things like that. host: all right. let's have our guest respond. caller: -- guest: malcolm feels like those with dignity will defend themselves. i'm not connecting the second amendment to dignity. malcolm points out that black people who are being attacked by racial terrorists in the south where the north east or west have the right to defend themselves. it is never for proactive violence against anyone. it is to defend themselves. all i'm saying is that his notion of dignity and self-defense, there is a connection, not one that he is necessarily making but this

standard that black people cannot have access to the second amendment. i would say that certainly there are certain folks who will connect it to dignity, but i'm not saying that malcolm did. in terms of racism, i think racism is deeper than just inconvenience. we think about racism as unequal outcomes in terms of wealth, in terms of accessing homeownership , bank loans, educational outcomes, in terms of health care, just in terms of every aspect of our lives. that is how we are thinking about racism. it goes beyond segregation, white, color, signs and bathrooms during the jim crow era. when you think about racism, we

have to think about unequal outcomes. it is the same thing when we think about sexism and misogyny. it is about a lot more than just inconvenience. host: kicking off a month-long series looking at black history month. guest: it is unbelievable -- unbelievably important because it is part of american history. it was founded as a link between the celebrations of george washington and abraham lincoln's birthday, and it becomes black history month by 1976. what is important about black history as this is the american history and our american story. it connects with them because they love to talk about american

history, both racial slavery, reconstruction, the wars, why people had been through from field to factory. he loves to talk about the prehistory. what it provides us with is the chance to understand not just the path by the present and the future. the chance to understand what are the gaps between the rhetoric and reality? it is also a chance to see the great beauty of the people who have transformed america. the way in which we think about humanism, humanity on a global scale. when we think about black history, it is very important for us to think about this as american history.

it is part of our shared story. it is actually a universal lens. so often we are taught that the only thing that is universal is the people of story -- it is very important when we talk about black history to think of it as an epistemological intervention. when we think of epistemology come all that word is is the philosophical foundation for knowledge. so often in the u.s., we only look at things through a european centered or eurocentric or western centric epistemological linens. what is great about malcolm x and then later martin luther king jr. is that malcolm loves to see things from a global perspective. that is why he visits the middle

east. that is why he visits africa. he does his major debate at oxford union. he is interested in other people's stories and looking at the world through a multifaceted lens. that is what black history provides us, a way to really ennoble ourselves by looking at the world through a different prism. host: how do you suggest honoring or commemorating it? guest: we commemorate it by sharing the stories, by reading the books and not banning the books. florida is banning books. but james baldwin really encouraged us, and so did malcolm x and martin luther king jr., to stop lying about our history. if we are a strong nation, we

can understand and afford to learn about history. part of honoring it is by reading the books, celebrating it and commemorating it, but also wrestling, telling ourselves, what is this history? how does this make me feel about the u.s.? how does it make you feel about the fourth of july? what is my understanding of black history? how does this make me gain a new understanding and comprehension and appreciation for things like citizenship, democracy? what are things like morality, christianity, religion and judaism? what does it mean in the history -- in the context? very interesting and very important. we honor it by learning more about it but also by spreading the word.

we should not be a country that is about book venting. we are american and interested in sharing the story because we are a grand enough nation to own up to our mistakes and to not lie about the past because if you lie about the past, but will you continue to do? people build a future based on lies. that will eventually be toppled. host: the author of the book the sword and shield. here is one of our viewers. wh do see as the main problem as to why blacks are refused reparations? guest: this is what we were talking about with the black history question. until 2020, what many did not understand about slavery and the

way that black labor wilt wealth in the u.s., but also builds up global capitalism. extraordinary books about this. that includes empire of cotton, ebony and iv, so many interesting and important books. so many others. when you think about slavery, it is not just the labor. we were used as collateral, as more insecurities to provide global investment for everything from harvard university, to banks and this is. black people created the first financial instrument that leads

to private equity, hedge funds and venture-capital, not just in the u.s. but across and around the world. this is demonstrably proved. first of all is the fact that we do not want to talk about that. what -- once you talk about that, you open up a pandora's box. it should not be a pandora's box that is negative. there has been reparations for groups in the past, including for the holocaust. those were the morally good and correct choices. the reason why americans do not want to talk about reparations is because certain ways, it becomes too big. they have a great book i am a supporter of reparations but also in a way that is very

expensive. i disagree with the idea that reparations should only be for black people who can demonstrably proved that one of their descendant were enslaved during the antebellum period. there were haitians who fought in the american revolution. there are people from the caribbean who fought in every war were not technically enslaved. there are people from the caribbean and other areas that were discriminated against and prevented from buying homes and building wealth. they should be connected to reparations as well. i am anti-the view of reparations. it is wrong. it is very small minded and it gets us away from that pan-african, global black identity that malcolm x

popularized and really taught us, this idea of black dignity that is universal and global, but i am for reparations. host: let's go to kathleen. caller: hello, dr. josephs. i cannot wait to read your book. as a kid in dayton, ohio in the mid-1960's, i had some nuns take us to a martin luther king event. i remember sobbing in front of parent's television set, watching blacks in the south and other cities being violently attacked by police, being beaten, fire hoses turned on them, german shepherds pick them apart. and that -- it was the start.

by the influence of the words of jesus christ, by the nuns asking us to walk the talk. many of us did our work based on martin luther king and malcolm x, big time. i am in dayton with a group. we filed a federal complaint under civil rights act title six about premier health network closing down a 93-year-old hospital in a 75% black neighborhood, while they expanded health care in white, suburban areas, beaver creek, and particular, and they built a 65,000 square-foot hospital facility and beaver creek, which is 86% white and tore down the 75%. all of this could be filed under

title vi. we asked senator brown to help us out. it did not help us at all. we begged him to come stand with us. the discrimination in regards to health care under title vi, i hope it can help us look into that issue of bringing justice to the neighborhood in regards to health care facilities, birthing centers. we know the mortality rate, but i was just astounded that senator brown did not stand by our side. we collected 600 testimonials about how the closing of that hospital affected the people in that neighborhood's lives. they sent it to the office. host: kathleen, i'm going to

jump and because we need our guest to respond. guest: i'm completely supportive of what you are saying. that is a great example of how structural racism works. it is not the inconvenience not a caller mentioned before but the shuttering of hospitals in black communities that need them the most, the lack of access to a pharmacy, to food, the product -- the proximity to the prisons and bars. the health of your children and health of yourself, more vulnerability to mental illness than any other population in the country. so those things are really bad and unfortunate. i think they connect to legacies in very profound ways because

king talks about building a beloved community where hospitals are not shut down. and malcolm talks about human dignity and how black people's human dignity has not been respected. and until that happens, we will not be treated as human beings. either we all count or none of us count. this idea of building a beloved community, these are important, radical, revolutionary ideas that we have to continue to advocate for into the 21st century. the only way history helps us and the only reason why i am a historian and a historian of black people globally is because history is not about the past. history is always about the present and the future. that is why people are trying to ban black history, trying to ban

toni morrison and meeting of black history because they do not want us to continue this fight for human dignity that martin luther king junior, that malcolm x gave their lives for. they contributed during their lives and after. host: once again, the book is sword and shield. there is also an eight part series called genius that premieres on national geographic with digital episodes being released through the month. thank you as always for the conversation this morning. we appreciate it. guest: thank you. i enjoyed it. host: thank you for watching and participating.

we will be back tomorrow morning. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is respoible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]