host: good morning, welcome to "washington journal."

we will begin our first hour with democrats only, will you vote for president biden in 2024? if you say yes, dial in at 202-748-8000. if your answer is no, your line is 202-748-8001. if you are undecided, call us at 202-748-8002. all of you can join us in text with your first name, city and state at 202-748-8003 or at c-span.org/wj. here are some bokos -- polls -- gallup research that found the political and economic indicators are not promising for president biden seeking a second term. this is the number they point to.

20% satisfaction right now with president biden. what they write is that over the past four decades, incumbent presidents have been reelected when a majority of americans are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country, but the cutoff seems to be 70% satisfaction. less than 30% in -- when elder bush and the former president trump lost, more than 70% were satisfied. those two former presidents lost when they were seeking a second term when satisfaction rate was under 30%. another poll to share this morning, a majority of americans think both president biden and former president trump are too old to serve a second term. 59% of those poor could -- those

polled think they're too old. axios reported biden officials see month's state of the union address as a big public reset moment, a chance to overcome or neutralize concerns about president biden's age and vitality. the president is also likely to address his legislative victories. he was in california. he talked about the safe plan and his canceling of $1.2 billion in student loans. [video clip] pres. biden: today we are doing it even faster and quicker than before. i proud to announce our save plan. we are canceling the debt loans of over 150,000 borrowers. nearly six months ahead of schedule.

we are canceling student debt for borrowers enrolled in the save plan and have been paying student loans for as little as 10 years. if they bought less than $2000, it is forgiven -- less than $12,000, loan is forgiven. this will be used to help graduates of community colleges and borrow smaller loans, putting them back on track faster for debt forgiveness than ever before. this and other progress i've made for debt for close to 4 million americans. host: the washington post, "biden canceled $1.2 billion in loans." the president's debt relief policies have been met with a mix of crazy frustration. activists have applauded is targeted approach. the administration has forgiven -- using existing relief programs.

they continue to employ biden to do more despite the crushing defeat of them was sweeping loan forgiveness plan before the supreme court. conservatives remain ardent critics of that policy they say comes at the expense of other taxpayers, many of whom never attended college. are you going to vote for president biden? democrats only this morning. sylvia in alexandria, virginia. you say yes. tell us why. caller: yes. i think he is doing a good job. is it perfect? is any president perfect? no. do we have reasons to complain sometimes? groceries were high, grant you, and the gas was high and it made everybody miserable. i understand that. we all had to suffer through that. is it getting better?

yes. i have noticed it is getting better but it is not perfect yet . there is wisdom in what he is doing. considering the opposite of whom might get in there, that is fearful to me. that is about all i have to say. host: are you surrounded by fellow democrats in your family and friends circle? are they enthusiastic about president biden? how would you characterize how they would vote? host: my immediate family, they are democratic. i have relatives, sisters who

are very republican. one sister lives in oklahoma. she is past. one sister lives in south carolina. they are very republican. we stopped in 2016. it was ugly. my sister in obama passed away because she had copd, she refused to get a shot. host: is your sister-in-law in south carolina, who is she going to vote for? do you know? caller: at this point i would say she would vote for trump.

my sister, not my sister-in-law. host: understood. elizabeth, randall's town, maryland. you say no. you are a democrat and you do not plan to vote for president biden for his second term. guest: -- caller: no, this time i am not voting for president biden because of his foreign policy against gaza. he has not called for a cease-fire, he is not told israel to have a cease fire. people in gaza are dying, they are being killed by israel, they were starving to death and biden has been deplorable. i will not for -- not vote for him ever again. host: who will you vote for? caller: i don't know. i am not going to vote for truck. i am a progressive person. i am not voting for biden,

probably a third party. host: can i ask how old you are? caller: i am 72. host: host: -- host: would you say your friends are with you on this? caller: most people in my family are probably going to vote democratic. i am not sure. host: mitchell in new jersey, you are voting yes on a second term for president biden. caller: yes. there will not be delay or doubt in my vote. do i think that biden is too old to be the president? i do. has he slowed down at all? i think he has probably slowed down a little bit. i don't think there is conclusive evidence he has alzheimer's or he is completely

out of it. that is crazy. people are going to have to stop yammering and put their big boy and big girl pants on and deal with reality and reality is it is going to be trump against biden again. the reality is no matter what third-party may seem appealing to you, it cannot win. you have a clear choice. it is going to be donald trump or joe biden. the risks of reelecting donald trump to a second term as president are substantial. i don't think it is hyperbole. he is totally kind of things he wants to do. he has told you about his vengeful this, that he wants to go after the news media.

he told he wants to go after all his enemies. he is signing up to dictators like putin and the hungarian dictator. i forgot his name. he is signing up to world leaders who do not care about democracy. host: where do you think president biden is vulnerable? what issues? caller: you cannot do anything about his age. that is an issue for some people, i understand that. host: what else? caller: the israeli issue is difficult because israel has been a long friend of the united states for many years and yet we see the gazans in terrible jeopardy.

supporting the right side and threading the needle is a difficult thing to do. i don't think you can get any policy of hundred percent correct. -- any policy 100% correct. the economy, people are complaining about high prices even though the economy is recovering and they are right. what is donald trump going to do when he marches into office that is going to suddenly lower the grocery prices? host: i am going to leave it there to follow up because the wall street journal, "food takes bigger bite out of wallet. eating continues to cost more, even though the pace consumers endured throughout 2022 and 2023. prices at restaurants were up 5.1% last month compared to january 2023 while grocery costs

increased during the same period. in 1991, u.s. consumers spent 11.4% of their disposable personal income on food according to u.s. agriculture department. households were still dealing with steep price increases following an inflation period in the 1970's. more than three decades later, food spending has retained that level. in 2020 consumers spent 11.3% of their income on food. anthony in maryland, you say no, you will not be voting for president biden. did you vote for him in 2020? caller: decided. host: why would you not for for him now? caller: foreign policy. it is appalling to me.

the creation of the is very state on top of the palestinians , it is almost like every other year -- especially the military. keep going back and forth to the middle east. it is the same thing. let the palestinians be free. there is no way after this type of carnage that you can possibly put those two people back together. netanyahu, i called him mad max -- i call him mad max. host: what will you do november this year? caller: i am looking at and dependent parties. i see things joe biden has done to put us back on the right track after president trump, after he left. biden put -- biden pretty much

took on the food industry that has been press catching us, making everything go up, even the market is that blazing speed i have not seen in years. we have record unemployment, especially in all of the neighborhoods. everyone is doing pretty well but we still have some pickups. for policy, we want to stop the carnage going on over there. there would no -- there would be no hamas without the creation of this. it keeps going back and forth in these wars. it is appalling. every time you turn around,

trying to deal with conflict after another. host: for you and others interested in cornell west's campaign, we have covered him. you can see it on to spend.org. the new york times, "biden considers executive action to guard the border. it would put policy in a bill that republicans thwarted even though it has some of the most significant restrictions congress has captivated in years. the bill was shut down the border to new entrants if more than 5000 migrants per day tried to cross in the course of a week. this is from the new york times. it goes on to say the action under consideration by the white

house would have a similar trigger for blocking asylum to new entrants. people spoke to the paper on the condition of anonymity. the move would echo between eating efforts by president trump to block migration which was assailed by democrats and blocked by federal courts. much president biden is considering, seven restrictions at the border triggered if more than 5000 try to pass unlikely in a week. for those of you think he has not done a good job with the border, is that enough to convince you, if he should follow through on this, to vote for a second term? in south carolina, you say yes. you're going to vote for president biden again. i assume you voted for him in 2020? caller: decided.

host: okay -- yes i did. host: okay. good morning. tell us why you think he deserves a second term. caller: is a good president. he gets stuff done. he is not a criminal. it does not matter how old he is, people -- it is the people working with him. the people working with him are intelligent and this and that. i don't believe any polls. who do these people get their polling from? 1500 people had 30 something million? i don't believe those polls. host: polls are a snapshot in time. they're getting the temperature of people in that moment and clearly people's minds can

change as we get closer to the election. caller: exactly. i understand that. but we have been talking about these polls since trump pointing back to 20 to be president and it doesn't make any sense. anybody with half a brain is not going to vote for donald trump. he is a criminal, a rapist. who would want that meant to be the president of the united states when he has the biggest bundle of money to the rich people and here i am. nikki haley is upping the age of social security. i want to know how many people who do ironworker work on a construction site when they are 73 years old?

no one. we are worn out from working all these years trying to build america, bridges and everything. host: would you say that is why you vote for the democratic party? is it the issue of unions and labor and republicanss -- republicans' philosophy versus democrats' philosophy? caller: i am not a union guy because we don't have any unions thanks to our governor. they don't want them. i am not talking about that, i just talking about general things. host: understood. you may be interested in need silver who is a pollster who runs 5, a poster website. he writes this, even the most optimistic democrats arguing

that democrats could win despite biden and not because of him. biden is a l candidates e americans haveational concerns about the prosp the commander in chief who would be 86 years old by the end of his second term. it is reasonable to see this as disqualifying. the fact that trumphis qualified futures is not a good reason to nominate bid eason for democrats to be the adults in the room and acknowledge someone who cannot sit through a suitable interview is that some of the public trust to have the pl and mental stamina to handle any international crisis, terrorist atta, some other threat when he will be in his mid-80's. in richmond, virginia, you say no. caller: i say no.

about the border, it is a little bit too late. he should have addressed that issue a long time ago. a second reason is student months. -- student loans. i saw he has forgiven students for people who have paid 10 years and brought $12,000. i collect that screams people who went to community college or people who went to college one or two years and dropped out. it doesn't help people like me who went to a four year university who had real student loan debt. i'm not going to vote for him because i'm afraid of trump. i am going to vote for somebody who speaks to the things i want. that is the reason i'm not going to vote for him. if i have to sit outcome i will sit out.

host: what if a large percentage of democratic voters like you sit this out and that to the ballot for president trump? caller: that would mean the next democratic candidate for the next election, they need to speak to issues that people really want, not just out there. i don't want to vote for somebody because i'm afraid of somebody else, i want to speak do -- vote for somebody who speaks to my needs. host: what are those again? caller: specifically student loans and specifically the voter -- the border. host: those are the liquids. -- the big ones. jody in marion, south carolina. your turn. caller: i wanted to address that

men who called come hanging up. host: you are confused because your television is on. you need to listen through your phone. mute your television. now go ahead. caller: confronting the man who called before the last caller, i'm nothing but godly and holy. that man -- a southern man don't need you around. [indiscernible] we need donald trump in fear because he is a businessman. he knows what is going on. he is cocky.

it is not cocky when you back it up. trump back to his up. host: -- trump backed his up. host: donnie in colorado. you are to vote for biden. caller: absolutely. host: where has he been successful in your mind? caller: he has been successful in my mind because he knew and address the issue from the beginning and came up with proposals to secure the border. the republican house has -- has thanks pivoted, the opportunity arose for a huge bipartisan movement after the republican continued to try to put in partisan bills.

they pivoted again and decided to not do anything which is very possible for the republican party. that is not who we are trying to fix our problems, that is just trying to say we have to do it one-sided. that is not being politically right in my eyes. more portly, our infrastructure is awesome in the sense that we have movement there. bills to fix the infrastructure, internet, these are things that are important. when we talk about student loans committed a lot of money we are

given or being given is minuscule to what we are being given in the trump taxes. i think it is more for people. his age is not an issue for me because i believe people that are in a field -- it is as expertise -- it has been as expertise. he has a lot of clout and a lot of people willing to help him. he is trying to win this with all of his years of understanding being in congress. host: donnie in colorado says yes. when it comes to young voters, here's a piece on vox.com. a boko said a similar conclusion, biden was up one

point over trump, 47% to -- present. according to a poll in pennsylvania, biden was five points over trump. these numbers mark a shift from 2020 when biden handedly defeated trump among young voters according to various exit polls and verified voter surveys. they found biden held a 25 point advantage over trump among young voters. this is on vox.com. yesterday we spoke with one of those young voters, isaiah hernandez, an end varnadoe content creator on tiktok who has around 200,000 followers. he talked about what the biden administration has done to engage environmental advocates and white activists on deplatform want to engage with the white house -- why activists

on the platform want to engage with the white house. >> the major concern is the leasing of new gas and oil permits on offshore drilling sites or within public lands. that is a huge thing a lot of climate voters want to make sure that is not going to happen in the future. with the lng project, it was not the fossil fuel project, it meant the new permits that would have been issued are temporally halted until an harmful testing can be done. there needs to be much more of those testing sites to be permitted and to ensure in my view, that we are developing a climate economy. we see the climate court happening, but their need -- they need to be accelerated knowing that americans are

worried forgetting a paying job, especially working-class and middle-class americans struggling with the current recession we have been going through. with young people, we are like eh in that it is not our first choice, he is not my first choice either, but realistically it seems as if we are repeating 2020 where we will see progress. i think 2024 is unique because i believe a partial chunk of voters that supported him are on the fence or have left that decision to even vote. from 2020 to, i am in the position that it is best to 2024, i am in the position that it is not to -- from 2020 to

2024, i am highly the position that it is not to want to vote for. i have focused more on defeating trump than a solutions weighted plan for america that allows us to redesign democracy rather than trying to push out this narrative of if that other candidate wins, it is the end of the world. i don't think gen z love that narrative. it is not inspiring for us to think there is action to be done. host: isaiah hernandez in an interview yesterday. tim ryan from young stan -- from youngstown ohio writes about the lng export ban in the wall street journal. he calls it "atrocious politics" saying "when i used to make my journey from youngstown to washington, i would encounter a

cracker plant, that processed shale formations. what does orbiting the lng export, was understand is that people working in that cracker plant -- fracking plant and those that thrived in the fracking boom are not all climate change deniers which i discovered. though they once resisted the idea that the climate is changing, many told me they now believe in climate change and agree that energy producing industries do need to change and become cleaner. the employer's -- the employees at that plant saw their contrition to congress -- to progress. natural gas was supposed to nurture clean energy businesses in the region. they have gone from being labeled part of the problem to part of the solution and they were proud. now liberal washington is turning on them. tim ryan's thoughts.

pennsylvania, you say no. good morning. caller: i will not. host: explain. caller: i don't like the way things are going, the inflation, the border. it is everything. i don't think he's doing a really good job. i think he's too old. i don't think he should try to run again. host: lewis in newport, rhode island. undecided. good morning to you. caller: good morning. host: you are undecided. caller: i am undecided for a few reasons. these were brought up by previous caller.

the democrats used to be working-class. i don't think they are anymore -- they do anymore. you stay in office too long, even vice president under obama. the results have been poor. host: any apologies for voters that heard that last part. luis in pennsylvania, you say yes. caller: i voted for president biden. i encouraged my grandchildren to vote for president biden for the simple reason that he looks out for the people of america and mr. trump does not. i am surprised by the republicans who knew exactly what type of man he was and when he was president, mitch

mcconnell said if you don't like what he wants, hold your nose and vote for him anyway. i think biden is for the american people, he looks after the people, the world, because former president trump was always in the pocket of the vladimir putin and he still is in the pocket of vladimir putin. as a diabetic in pennsylvania, i am appreciative of the laws that were passed to help people with diabetes to get their medicine at a much more reasonable cost. i vote for president biden and i encourage all of my friends who listen to this program not to follow polls and think he's too old because that is trump's work.

he keeps saying things over and over, he is old, but trump is old, too. my vote is for president biden. host: cindy you're also a vote for president biden. michigan. good morning. caller: thank you for what you give -- what you do. of course i'm voting for president biden. he is saving this country and he is getting the blame for everything. i can understand everyone's concerns. i thought mitchell was articulate and just now, what's her name, also. what it comes down to for b, biden has done great things -- for me, biden has done great things.

policy, groceries, health care, everything. but for me what it comes down to -- i would like to acknowledge president biden for more than this book this is the biggest thing for me -- but this is the biggest thing for me, when i go into the voting booth, it is going to go down to whether i am voting to save our republic /democracy or the opposite which is the autocracy. that is what it is for me. host: steve, oregon. undecided. why is that? caller: to look at your options. you have mr. trump and he has a long track record of cheating people, screwing his employees, lying.

yet, people are flocking to him. then we have mr. biden. what can you say about the guy? we have to think him because he gave us clarence thomas. now he seems to be a big problem. i am walking on the fence right down the middle. when nikki haley gets beat out on all them meeting this primaries, she is probably going to throw her fact -- throw her hat independent and she might have a chance. when you have this lady telling us frozen eggs are humans, what if the power goes out? is someone going to be charged with murder for killing these egg humans? these people need to start thinking about it being realistic on some of the things they say.

got they have advisors -- don't they have advisors? host: we will go to new jersey. jerry, good morning. did you vote for president biden in 2020? caller: yes i did. host: what were the issues then? caller: i wanted to give them a chance. i vote for the person, not for the party and i wanted to give him a chance and see how he does. i am going to foot for him in the primary. in jersey you can only vote one way. i am going to vote for biden. i don't think he is going to be the nominee. i think their to pull him out -- they are going to pull him out. watching him on c-span is mind blowing, you are extremely obvious with the questions you ask.

you are definitely for democrats but you don't give the republicans a chance. that is okay, do whatever you want to do. i know if trump wins or is doing well, it is going to kill you and i am going to watch it on c-span when it comes because i cannot wait to see it. host: you are voting for the former president in november? as an chubb -- president trump? caller: the primary come i have to vote, grant. -- i have to vote democrat. host: the general election? caller: trump. host: brenda, fort lee, new jersey. you say no to not vote for president biden in 2024. caller: and calling in regards to i always was a democrat and will stay with democrats, but i am so unhappy with what is going

on with president biden. he seems to always be out of the white house on vacation and not really doing what he should be doing for us as americans. he lost my vote. i am voting for president trump, election in november -- come election in november. i am so tired of his actions, not doing the right thing, i have had enough. host: who did you vote for in 2020? caller: biden. host: you have always voted for democrats? caller: yes i did. host: now you are going to switch and vote for former president trump? caller: i am. i feel there has to be a change in america and it is long overdue. i listened all morning to people

talking about voting yes or voting no for biden, the no for biden. -- voting no for biden. this man is not in the white house at all, he is always on vacation, he is always doing things. his thinking in his ability to run the country, we are in trouble -- and his ability to run the country, we are in trouble. i hope we never have a war. if we do it he is in charge, we might as well throw our hands up. he is not with it. host: from the washington post, the president's brother, james biden, was testifying behind closed doors on capitol hill. he denies that his brother the president was involved in his business deals. that is the headline from the testimony yesterday.

the washington times headline, biden's brother denies knowing the source of the money he received from hunter biden. this contradicts a former associate who testified also to this committee. those are two headlines on the testimony. the reporters had a camera and microphone set up outside the closed door hearing and jim jordan of ohio was asked about the indictment of the former fbi informant, alexander smirnoff, on the house impeachment efforts. [video clip] rep. jordan: we have the fact that hunter biden gets put on the board, he's not qualified, it is paid within dollars a

year, he is not qualified to be on the board. third, in dubai on december 4, 2015, the executive specifically asked hunter biden, can you weigh in with d.c. and help us with the pressure we are facing from the prosecutor general in ukraine? hunter biden makes a call to his dad and three days later joe biden goes to ukraine and conditions the release of american tax money on the firing of the prosecutor applying the company hunter biden set on the board of. host: jim jordan yesterday, the chair of the judiciary committee. yesterday we heard from jamie raskin who is the top democrat on the oversight and accountability committee. he said republicans should drop

their attempt to phd president. >> -- [video clip] rep. raskin: the impeachment added yesterday with the revelation that mr. smirnov's allegations about payments to joe biden were concocted along with russian intelligence agents and it appears the whole thing is not only obviously false and fraudulent, but a product of russian propaganda. that has been the motivation for more than a year. for today's interview with the brother of president biden, mr. james biden, we have heard

nothing indicating joe biden had anything to do with the business ventures of hunter biden or james biden. nothing has contradicted that basic understanding we have had for many months. that is essentially what we are i am restating my call to chairman,, to speaker johnson, to fold up the tents of this circus show. host: jamie raskin yesterday. check to the calls and all of you, will you vote for biden in 2024? democrats only this morning. caller: i will definitely not vote for joe biden and i never had much respect for his intellect. i want to make clear, he is not

just old, he is only 81 years old. i know 81-year-olds that are in perfect shape mentally. he is senile. he has advanced. i am scared of having this guy have another four years. he is responsible for the ukraine work and the israel war with hamas. i am terrified is he has to step down and you have kamala harris for president who is even worse. i have already voted for the michigan primary. i chose -- i had to choose devoted democrats or republicans but i did not vote democrat. i voted for trump. it is a disaster. some people criticize biden for israel. they think he is for the palestinians and so on, i cannot believe that.

he has been stopping israel from completing the job. he is telling them to have a cease fire without nothing. hamas said they will attack again and again. what can israel do? they do what they have to do. adolf hitler would be proud of them and all these people who support the so-called palestinians don't have a clue. when the world trade center was blown and americans lost their lives, palestinians were dancing in the streets of gaza. they don't remember that, i remember that and i remember that and i'm not even jewish. host: michigan, early voting has started in that state. on the ukraine war and finally to assist ukrainians come here is a pro ukraine lawmaker's plan as a backup if the house republicans and the speaker do

not allow that foreign aid bill to come to the floor. some republicans are preparing fallback plans to force a vote with democratically distracting a special role that could enable a narrow bipartisan majority to bypass the speaker. the plans to use rare parliamentary procedure are in of the stages and may not come into play. democrats' preference is to love -- is for johnson to allow a vote to help allies and ukraine, israel, and taiwan replenish their depleted weapon stocks. johnson said of the house would be pressured into passing the senate bill. johnson who is concerned about living government shutdowns deadlines has not offered his own plan on the package. that has over the door to a flood of competing counterproposals as lawmakers wait for the novice speaker to make a decision. the wall street journal article

goes on to say there is an even rarer process being considered. democrats are discussing an unusual process called defeating the previous question which would give the party and gop allies control of the -- temporary control of the house floor. defeating the previous question could be faster than a petition and require fewer votes since it needs a simple majority of those present. it would be a -- it would be political tonic for republicans who likely have to stick with democrats for multiple votes. back to our question, democrats only. will you vote for president biden in 2024? jim in missouri, did you vote for the president in 2020? caller: yes i did. host: and you are going to vote again in 2024 for him. caller: i will vote for the

biden-harris ticket, i will vote for democracy. the republican party offers nothing. i will vote against republicans. it is definitely the way to go. i am not concerned about joe's age. i do believe kamala harris would continue with the values joe does have. looking out for the little guy, trying to get things done around the world. tom trump -- donald trump, i do not see him surviving the supreme court. how can they put forth trump as a viable candidate when he is unable to hold office? i am voting democratic as a

democrat in missouri, my vote has not counted in 30 years, it being a purple state that the republicans control despite the will of the voters. i am behind job all of the way -- joe all the way. host: this is a text from gay i north carolina. "i will vote for jen because he is a good president. he surrounds h with expensive staff and cabit members. he is a strong moral compass, experience, wisdom, and the ability to empathize. the wor is in chaos and we need calm steady leadership." this is dan in virginia, "i am voting for president biden. sitting out as a ve for president trump which would be end of democracy." fred in missouri, "i'm voting

for biden for the same reason i did last time, he is not trump." david in new york, you are also yes on this question. caller: yeah. look at the -- [indiscernible] there are over 50,000 jobs in new york because of the chip act because of joe biden. a huge factor, you might have heard of it -- factory, you might have heard of it. joe biden is an honest and good human being and trump is nothing but a crook and he is a rapist. host: david's opinion there. california, cheryl, you say yes. caller: yes, i voted for him in the last election and i will vote for him again.

because i'm going to piggyback on what gail wrote on social media, all of those things plus. what i want to emphasize because i listened to the callers state all of their opinions about why they would not vote for him. i went to stop and think when they complain -- i want the american people to stop and think when they complain, they don't complain about president biden, they complain about the choices they make. you give him the presidency, but you gave him the power of the purse with the republicans in the house of representatives. you tied his hands for the beginning. number two, if you go and look at the senate, the senate is

operating in a bipartisan way, the way it should have been. even though it is a narrow majority there, they are still getting things done. when people talk about immigration, they came up with a package in the senate. the senate over to the house dead on arrival -- they sent it over to the house dead on arrival. biden has aligned himself with great people, good leaders know how to delegate. as far as i am concerned, as long as he knows how to delegate and his mind is sound enough to surround himself by good people, he is going to get things done.

americans need to stop thinking about themselves and think about what is going on in the world. think about some of these other countries who have it worse. the life you are saving with your vote may be your own. host: michael in north carolina, i decided -- undecided. caller: i was undecided but biden gave us checks, he gives food come he gave us shelter that she gave us food, he gave us shelter -- he gave us food, he gave us shelter. host: you have to mute your television. we heard what you said about president biden's first years in office.

caller: when mr. trump: taken bleach -- trump said take bleach , he did not give any money at all. host: the first round of money was enacted when president trump was in office, his last year. caller: presidents get four years. therefore what trump was operating on was the fact that he got it from obama. when they would pass any of his bills or anything -- host: will move on to the mark in oklahoma. you say no to this question. caller: because i'm looking for a third candidate because i think both of them have gone off of the rails. we have a problem in this country in that we are not being

smart in supporting ukraine in their fight for freedom and the russian president adjustments to take it all. host: who is a viable third party candidate. ? caller: nikki haley, the female candidate running. i don't know but i'm hoping one would come. i would like to see you all in washington take a look at the government and our leaders in washington, d.c. and congress and stuff and say the u.s. was set up by the constitution to do what the constitution said, not what they want to reshape our country into, what they want it

to look like. host: from fox news -- foxnews.com, "no label pursuing a third-party candidate after joe manchin decides not to run for president. the no label organization is considering options for third party president candidate after joe manchin decided not to run. the no label has qualified on the ballot for 16 states so far and is still working to qualify for all 50, pushing back against michael steele's argument that it would be challenging for any third-party ticket to come up with a win in november. no labels is a group to watch if you're interested in a third-party candidate. caller: thanks, greta.

you do a wonderful job. yes i will vote for joe biden and who else could you vote for trump? the guy is out of touch. we have to stop all of this fighting among each other. the facts are that joe biden has made more oil out of the u.s. than saudi arabia. the economy is great, the prices of gas are down. in georgia and south carolina, the gases under two -- i go there at least 2, 3 times a year. that is all i have to say. host: bobby, west virginia. you plan to vote for president biden again. caller: yes. good morning, greta.

if you give me a minute or so, i feel pressured here. i am definitely going to vote for joe biden. he has got 50 plus years of experience under his belt. yes, he is a little shaky and everything, but he has a good, solid mind. let me tell you why. he got the infrastructure bill passed. i am a former coalminer in west virginia, and our jobs under the first four years of trump, they had preparation plans to shut coal mines down, and there were a tremendous loss of workers. under joe biden and infrastructure, we got the bills for bridges, and we need that cold down here to make bridges.

i don't know how many -- i know how many in west virginia, over 1500 bridges, and other states, i am sure there are thousands and thousands, but with the infrastructure bill, it is creating approximately over 10 million jobs, and people keep calling in and talking about the economy and things being high and gas is coming down like the gentleman before me said, and there is no policeman on top of these corporations, which biden has mentioned, but he is just the president, not as big as these ceos and corporation. they can demand any price they would like on their products,

and if trump were to get in the next time, there is in the making a 25% cut on people on social security, and most people in this country, that is their only source of income. you take my ballpark figure is right, 25% cut, that would be $250 on $1000. that would be devastating to the economy. host: bobby, you are a former coworker, is that right? caller: yes ma'am, a former mine worker. bobby. host: bobby says, yes, he will vote for president biden again because of the infrastructure bill. next, we will be joined by heath mayo, founder of the center-right group supposed first to talk about the upcoming campaign, -- group principles

first, to talk about the upcoming campaign. and then later, we will speak with jason hill on the teaching of black history and reparations. stay with us. ♪ >> sunday on "q&a," patty davis shares her book "dear mom and dad." a memoir written to her late parents. she talks about being in the spotlight after her father and politics in the 1960's,er complicated relationship with her mother and her views on the reagan administration's handling of the eight epidemic. -- eight epidemic >> -- aid epidemic. >> there are people who still think my father did not care about them, which is not true,

and they were people in his administration who were homophobic and did not want them to address the aids issue, and to successfully cap is from him because one of my father's flaws, and we all have them, is that he delegated things to other people and believed what they told him, so when rock hudson died, nobody could keep from him the severity of aids. i mean, his friend just died from it. and that was the turning point. >> patty davis with her book, "dear mom and dad," sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's "q&a." >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly

informed, a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, from the nation's capital to wherever you are because the opinion that matters most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with heath mayo, the founder of principles first. what is your group? guest: it is a grassroots nationwide effort i think to refocus the conservative movement on principles instead of personalities. our flagship event every year is the principles first summit, which is the same weekend as cpac, which i think has come to represent everything wrong with the conservative movement, the corruption, the griff, this is about personalities for them instead of supposed, so we are

excited about everybody coming together this weekend. host: how many people are in your group at the grassroots level, and who are some names that are part of your group that folks might recognize? guest: we have tens of thousands of people around the country. we are sold out at the conrad this weekend, but maims people will recognize, ride rafters berg will be there, stood against all the assault against the election in georgia, adam kinzinger, governor hutchinson, who ran for president in the republican primary and spoke some hard truths. judge looted, judge conway, cassidy hutchinson, those folks who took a stand when they were serving in the trump administration when they went astray. so a lot of folks who have been sounding the alarm about the threat president trump represents, so we are encouraged and excited about folks who have come together. host: some have called the principles first the never

trumpers group. guest: that is fair, i think a lot of people in the room don't like what they see under the leadership of president trump and others, so i think this is a really important voting block, honestly, of frustrated republicans and independents -- we are not deciding who the republican nominee is necessarily, but in november, we are going to decide who the next president is, and if you want to be the president and win swing states, you will have to make a compelling case that you are putting principles first and not just yourself. host: who is your candidate and a general election matchup between the current and former president? guest: i have said i will do everything i can to stop president trump from getting there, so if it means voting for joe biden, that is what it means. it is not early about what i think but what these principles first voters think.

people voting for nikki haley, the exit polling suggests they will do the same thing. they are really set up with -- fed up with the direction of the republican party under trump, and if that means defeating the party in november, i think they're ready to do that. host: should nikki haley run as independent? guest: everything is on the table. i am encouraged by what she is doing, being on the front lines, being more aggressive and the differences between her vision for the country and the conservative movement and trump's so i think that message is resonating. i think she is getting a lot more support than people recognize or expected. that is how clinical movements start and generate. you have to be out there stating your case to the voters, and i think she has done that well. right now, i think she is doing a really good job in the primary of presenting that stark choice for voters. host: is there another person

out there who could run as a -- in a third-party that could do what you are hoping to do, which is to stop the former president winning another term? guest: potentially. a lot of our principles first type voters are concerned. 2024 is less of an election about finding exactly the right choice. you always have problems with certain candidates, but, unfortunately, it is about stopping existential threats to the country, the constitution, peaceful transfer of power. president trump has said that he is looking to tear down some of those things and routinely assaults our elections, attacks the courts, and mine prosecutors who are trying to hold him accountable under the law, that is an attack on the core institutions and principles that have made america great. i think that is what is at stake . do we need a third choice to make a decision on that

fundamental question? i don't know, but, certainly, anybody who would like to get in should think about it, but i don't know that we necessarily need a third choice. host: in a recent essay, never trumpers never had a chance, and he writes, despite political conditions that should republicans, democrats made a modest g the senate and barely lost the closely divided house. elections to maga candidates were routed in most state tions, yet, none of these setbacks broke trump's grip on the gop, in part because while democrats have been able to mobilize an effective anti-trump opposition conseate, he writes that conservative never trumpers, former republicans ke me, who have desperately tried to break trump's grip on the party mostly failed. it is now clear to me we never

had a chance and the reason is equally clear, we did not, he writes, truly understand our own party. do you agree western mark if so, what does that mean, understand our own party was to mark guest: i agree -- our own party? guest: i agree with a lot of what he wrote, when he says understand our party, i think me and others were surprised at the degree to which trump has completely hoodwinked a lot of republican based voters. the party has really flipped on a dime on key principles that profess to hold, strong america, standing with allies. it is bizarre to me that the large part of the party and probably what you will here at cpac is sort of celebrating vladimir putin as this bold, strong man who tells it like it is. and while, the guy is ordering people in prison. this is just not a party guided by sort of core ideas and principles anymore.

it is very much in the thrall of personality, politics, you know, say what you want about president trump, but he has charisma and a certain pool over the voters that has made them forget about the things that make being a conservative a conservative limited government. host: so should they lead the party or should you? guest: i personally see the party is very weak. it changed overnight. it is an arm of the trump campaign. look, i think the battle for the republican will always continue. if it continues down this path, the republican party risks being a party that is not competitive nationally and cannot win swing state senate seats that you need to govern, so, look, if it takes that path, yeah, we will probably leave, -- that's the nature. you cannot win elections of

people are leaving the party. since january 6, you see more and more voters, bitterly in suburban swing state areas leaving the party, making it almost impossible for the republican party win a general election. host: is that your prediction in 2024 if it is a rematch? guest: i think so, i think the republican party will have a problem convincing anybody who has not voted for trump to vote at how are they going to convince new trump voters? has he done to signal he is different or offering any new ideas to challenges we face then he was in 2022 or 2020? it has always been this grievance, i, victim, they are coming after me, they are coming after you distraction that has nothing to do with the challenges we face as a country. we are facing big threats abroad, we have problems at

home, and this guy is talking about his legal bills. it is not conducive to a coalition that can win a nationwide election, general election, in the united states. host: keith mayo is our guest, founder of principles first. we will have coverage of their group meeting this saturday, 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span on our free video mobile app c-span now, and on our website at c-span.org. we are also covering cpac. you heard heath mayo talk about that, we're former president will be there, and lots of supporters of the former president at the conservative political action conference, and that starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern time today on c-span, c-span now, that free mobile video app you can download or on our website at c-span.org. let's go to manchester, connecticut, republican party help me with your name.

caller: my name is ron. host: good morning, question or comment? caller: i guess i have both. mr. mayo, you are a conservative in name only. i think they call you something like a rhino because anybody who attaches conservative to his organization or name and votes for joe biden is not a conservative. he is a way out left wing. you say the republican party is an extension of donald trump. well, what is the democrat party an extension of joe biden? you say that trump is an extremist. i look at four years of this administration, i did not see extreme policies. you say he is a victim. democrats build themselves on

victimhood. host: ok, we will get a response. guest: you know what? look, there is that the more extreme than sitting in the white house for four or five hours, watching as the capitol is assaulted and attacked, police officers are beat down with the american flag while people try to take over the congress while they are trying to do a peaceful transition of power. that is extreme. we cannot deny that reality. that is extreme. it is extreme to continue to deny an election, years after it has taken place, and all of these court procedures have looked at the facts and the claims and said they were false. that is extreme. americans who look at that say, i do not want to sign up for that for four more years, and if we would like to win elections as conservatives and implement policies, we have to face that reality. it is true.

president trump is not focused on conservative principles. and conservative in name only, i would say donald trump is, if he even would like to be called a conservative. $8 trillion in debt, he would like to raise tariffs at a time when we face inflation. that raises the price of consumer goods. almost none of his agenda makes sense, except perhaps border security. the republican party has continued to be strong on border security. i think that is important to read look, the trump administration is not a conservative administration and i don't think it is going to be, even if it is reelected. host: what about the tax bill passed and the executive action on reducing regulation that people point to? guest: certainly, yeah, here or there, pick one or two things, sure, that i think there were conservatives in congress that influenced the administration to some degree. you could say the court picks were also pretty good, but i don't think he really

understands the law clearly, so i think someone else may the picks for him. yeah, win or two things i can agree with. on the whole, the big things, faith in the constitution, not attacking our court system is all up to get you. we have processes and procedures in the country. you are not the center of the story. to do those things is not to conserve the institutions that made the country really great. that is my concern. a lot of voters feel that same way. host: denise in maine, independent. caller: yes, i was just wondering about who you would recommend that we should vote for? do you really want us to vote for biden, who i believe is turning this country into a communist country? are we supposed to give up our rights because you're not happy about who the republican choices? how about you go to the no

labels and help them instead of bashing on the republicans as a republican? guest: i mean, we will see what the field looks like, but elections are about tough choices. you are not going to find everything you like in a candidate. but i think it is a responsibility of every citizen to get out there and talk about the principles they would like to see candidates reflect so we can hold them accountable. i think that is what the principles first summit is about, organizing a key contingent of voters that politicians need to get elected and then communicating to them not just that you are loyal to them, but in order to get your vote, you have to do some certain things and you have to defend things like the constitution and balance the budget. do key things. otherwise, politicians are going to run rampant and do whatever they want because they can count on you to vote for them because

you don't like the other guy. host: democratic caller, phyllis. caller: thank you. the reason i am calling is i am really concerned about trump possibly getting reelected. the only reason he even has a chance is because biden and democrats are on the far left of the spectrum, and i am concerned about ukraine. i am baffled that the republican party looks at national security. i think it is important we find ukraine. we don't have to put any man up front who have to sacrifice their lives. ukraine is willing to fight for the country. i worried putin will expand further west. i am worried about threats to republican congress people that if they go against the grain or trump, or if they are defaulting on their debt, which would paint

over 401(k) plans, there worried about backlash against the magna -- maga rights. i have never seen people get attacked in airports during the election in 2020. people were afraid to impeach trump or convict him in the senate. they are worried about their family members. even people that were not in the conflict or people working as election workers in wisconsin or georgia, even democratics and republicans were getting threatened, and i have never seen this in my entire lifetime, and i am old. host: on that note, heath mayo. guest: i think the violence we are seeing and the intimidation in our politics in the united states, and to the extent that that continues, i mean, we have a real problem is a country, so we have to face that.

the caller makes a good point about ukraine. i think it is bizarre that the conservatives from a reagan era republican perspective that you have got people like tucker carlson having pattycake interviews with vladimir putin and then leaving a conversation with him and thinking the real problem is the u.s. that is bizarre. and to have a whole party that is saying when they look at ukraine and they look at putin marching into a free, sovereign nation and killing women and children, committing war crimes, to say that that does not really affect us so we should close our eyes and isolate ourselves and the world i think is also bizarre, so i think it is important that republicans, even if they feel the pressure, that they stand up. because i think there are 17 or 18 republicans who voted for ukrainian in understand the importance of the conflict, so i think it is important we support those people. but i think caller makes a good

point about the risks of radicalization on the left and the democratic party. i think that is problematic. you see this with antisemitism on college campuses. anything that gives fodder to anyone else to vote against the democrats and vote for president trump is a great risk right now because of the threat that i think trump's candidacy represents, so democrats really need to mind their own house here and make sure they are putting the most compelling case forward for voters and not giving anybody, you know, in the middle of these independent leaning voters -- as you know, more and more people are rejecting party affiliation altogether. it is really, i think -- november is going to be a contest to see who can make the case to the principled center-right, centerleft motor to win -- a to win in tight elections, like pennsylvania. because that is the only way

they will get to the white house. that's critical. host: we are talking to the founder of principles first, heath mayo. how did you come up with the group and what is your background? guest: i am a lawyer by trade. i don't do politics. this is a passion project that is largely volunteer driven. it started in 2019 in response to cpac. i had gone to cpac since i was in college for several years until i guess about 2017. one year they invited somebody, and antisemitic ranter, and it had become clear to me that they were putting personalities on the stage more than principles and ideas that define us as conservatives. i could not go, so we started gathering elsewhere on a whim, and there was a lot of interest from even current republicans, conservatives, who wanted -- you were hungry to talk about the

actual ideas that define us, foreign policy, economic policy. it used to be a place where economic conservatives, the and independents could get together -- libertarians and independents could have debates. there are no debates at cpac. i don't even know if there were conservative is in any of the titles of the panels. this is the trump show, about marjorie taylor greene. it is feel to to politicians and the tribe -- fealty to politicians and the tribe. you have golden statues of trump in the hallways. these are not conversations of challenges we face in the country. we face a lot of challenges abroad, all over the world, problems in the u.s. joe biden has failed on a lot of things, and so we have got to do a better job of talking about our ideas and counterproposals as opposed to just putting on the red hat, shutting our ears,

and hoping everybody feels like a victim like donald trump does. host: deborah in indiana, republican. caller: good morning. now, this is what i would like to say. in my world, i am a great-grandmother, and i have contact with all children of all ages, so what i have been hearing from most teenagers and college students, and from me as a great-grandmother who now i need caregiver service, but, you know, it is hard to get it from the children or whoever because there is so much attitudes, but, what i did learn, and i learned

it is a culture thing. and the culture change is this, there was something that was said on a hot night, and it terrified the young people. we have been there, we do not want to go there. and the hot night was nobody -- they don't want that culture. they had it. don't bring it to me. host: teeth mayo? guest: -- host: heath mayo? guest: it is an interesting point. if you are concerned about your children, culture, part of the reason i am frustrated with the direction of the republican party is it feels like we have forgotten that character matters. right? the character of our leaders. whether or not they tell the truth, whether or not they are

honest, whether or not they exemplify the types of character traits that we would like our kids doing simplified. that is important. and i do not know -- i can maybe count on one hand the number of republican elected officials in this country that i would want my kids -- when i have them -- to a late and aspire to be -- to emulate and aspire to be. that is frustrating. as a conservative, i would like to look at my leaders and know that they are standardbearers and they are healthy for people who respect each other and listen to each other, even if we disagree. that don't kick you out of the party or threaten you if you don't support the nominee. right? those are all pieces of our culture, as well. to the extent that culture is on your mind as a voter, ask yourself what kind of culture do you think we are going to get with four more years of a president who lies about the election, lies about pretty much

everything almost. i cannot think of anything that he does tell the truth about. that is not good for our culture. i don't think it is good for our country. host: heath mayo, here jay in georgia, i would like kwf heath mayo is troubled by the copiracy of the former president trump, accusing the fbi of trying to steal the 2016 guest: both of these comments exemplify i think a common problem that has developed in our discourse.

we should expect our law enforcement agencies, the fbi, to follow the rulebook and make sure they are doing things the right way. these are huge organizations. people in the fbi and the people that serve their coach your kids t-ball team. they are american citizens like us. this deep state conspiracy is bent on electing their person and not on political terms. they are career service agents. they will make mistakes and we got to realize that as a country that sometimes they will make mistakes but it doesn't mean they are destroying the country or trying to destroy the country. but we have to become as a country, able to admit there were mistakes. i think both of those folks raised to different instances of perhaps errors in the way the fbi went through their procedures and the fbi has admitted those things. i don't know that they work material to any investigation or

have proven to be material so we have to be honest that citizens or if every -- if we expect perfection out of things and if they are not perfect every time, if we are going to tear down the institution, that's problematic. we need things like the fbi. we need to improve them. i don't think it's helpful to say that there were these conspiracies in the fbi wants to elect trump or biden. that's not the fbi's role and that's not what they are doing. i think it's harmful for our country to talk in conspiracy language all the time. host: roger in nebraska, independent. caller: good morning, there's not enough time to respond to this fellow. first off, i'm 75 years old and i voted for democrats and republicans. i look at this election as the worst, the least of the two evils.

when trump left office, i was paying two dollars per gallon for gas. oil was $46 per barrel, inflation was running at about 1.5%. gdp was up to over 5%. i don't like trump and i don't like his mouth a lot of times, but there was no russia military messing on the ukraine border when trump left office. the chinese weren't intimidating taiwan when trump was in office. i don't understand this fellow's thinking. he calls himself a republican. what are you going to do if trump and biden are the candidates for the next election? are you going to vote for biden? host: we will take that question

and have him respond. guest: i think i disagree with the characterization of some of those things. i don't the threat of putin was zero during the trump administration. i think boudin was pleased with a president who is writing him love letters and praising him all the time as a strong sort of dictator for russia. i think he felt comfortable with the issue. in a lot of ways, put in the russian army were able to put into motion a lot of things we have seen transpired in ukraine. i would reject that and also taiwan, i think china had been menacing taiwan for years. there's been a constant problem so i don't think that is valid but to the question, that's a tough choice. as a republican, i agree, it's like pick your poison. there is one poison there that is a lot worse even if you are a conservative.

even the constitution, if you believe in the rule of law, those are critical principles. no candidate is ever going to serve all of your principles all of the time. elections are messy and you have to make choices. for me, the choice between a president who has said we are going to terminate the constitution, a president who sat there for hours while the capital was being attacked and told the nation afterwards that we love these people, that wants to see the people who assaulted police officers pardoned and released from being held accountable under the law, that is rejecting some very core, fundamental principles that if we lose those, none of the other principles really matter. that's my perspective and i appreciate the perspective of the caller but it's about tough choices we have to make the decision with the choices in front of us. host: democratic caller in brooklyn. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call and thank you for an alternative view to the reality of the republican party. it's important particularly now. i wanted to go back to what you said about cpac. you have people who like this and praising vladimir putin. my question for you as a conservative, i am a democrat and i don't agree with everything democrats do and i don't agree with a lot of progressive policies. you can see from the last segment, democrats don't want to vote for biden for various issues. as the republican party, it's over. i think the republican party is over. i think they can't sway a great deal of the population to get off of themaga wagon.

what will you do when you have to come to the fact that there are people in this country that literally do not want democracy. they are calling it a republic because it is but is almost code to say that democracy only works when it benefits me and its people i agree with on the ballot and if they are not, they are not even worth my vote because they don't exist. that is literally where we are going with the republican party. how do you really come to terms with the fact that there are people who just don't want democracy, not only in the government and the population? it's a large number of people. what do you do with something like that? guest: i think you raise a really good point. i think it's -- in my view, we cannot look to the parties for the answer. you will not going to find it in the republican party or the democratic party. that's why people increasingly

do not identify with either of the parties. in order to combat the problem you're talking about, we have to form a principled answer to the questions you are talking about it we've got to make the argument for why the constitution is important, why character matters, why we shouldn't be just throwing out our elections because we don't like the outcomes. we need to make those arguments to the american people irrespective of party. it's irrespective of principles rather than party labels. that ultimately is what drives our decisions as a country. if we can get back the conversation to those principles, i think you will find -- you take the party label out of it a little bit and you refocus people on the ideas, that has the ability to break through. i would encourage everybody when

you are talking to your friends and family, i'm from east texas from a very conservative part and members of my family are still supporting donald trump and i respect as members of my family. i don't have a problem with the voters. i have a problem with the leaders. i think the leaders of the republican party have really done a disservice to their voters. they disrespected them by lying to them and i just think that is the story we need to tell whether you are a democrat or republican. we need to go to those voters and explain to them the principles that have been abandoned and what it means for them. the terrorists -- the tariff trump is talking about on all goods coming into the u.s. is bizarre at a time when we are trying to fight inflation. one caller is trying to figure out how she will pay for care for her grandchildren. that is a problem. if we hike the tariffs up on things, it will hurt people's

pocketbooks and we have to tell that story and pull them away in this cult of personality that folks are wrapped up in. host: california, republican caller. caller: good morning. it's a great program this morning and the last -- and the last few days. i am a little bit intrigued by the fact that today we have mr. mayo on. yesterday, you had mr. mcdowell, i believe his name was hugo. two days ago, you had david corn. out of 75 million people that pulled the lever for donald trump and 2020, can you find a pro-trump or to put on c-span once in a while? you had david corn on as a conservative and you had a guy from the national review. they hate trumpeters. this man is a hate trump her. i wonder how he will like it --

first of all, i don't think joe biden will be the guy, let's say is gavin newsom. they will legalize all these eight or 10 million illegals that came in here under the biden administration. for that reason, it's to influence the election. if they thought these people would vote 5050, the border would be closed tomorrow. can they look back at the with -- the disasters withdraw from afghanistan? and the policies being put forward today, i don't believe they are joe biden's policies. joe biden put to work a lot of supporters when he be -- came into office and i think the deal was made between him, and bernie sanders that we will take care of your staff and now his staff, although sanders couldn't get elected in 100 years, now his staff is calling the policies.

this man is a globalist. he is from the dick cheney /elizabeth cheney wing of may be the republican party. i don't want to call him names. i think the only thing i object to his he continues to say he is a republican. they talk about our democracy at stake. how much of democracy do we have and what does he think about this lawsuit against trump brought by the attorney general of new york, heard by this disjointed judge? it will basically bankrupt trump. does he think that's democracy? that's russia. that's prudent. that's marxist. when you are pursuing your political opponents and want to have them in jail, let the voters decide.

for gods sakes, c-span, get off of this hating trump that you are on because you are. ever since trump became the apparent nominee, you have had guest after guest after guest. why don't you have alan dershowitz on there once in a while? he wrote a good book and he is a hero. is a brave man. this guy here is a phony. host: you disagree and we got that. you can go to our website, c-span.org go into our library search engine and you can find the conservative guests that you would agree with on our platform. also you will hear from pro-trump supporters today at the conservative political that's happening at 10:00 a.m. eastern time on c-span. federal and state lawmakers will speak at cpac and we will hear from the south dakota governor and the committee chair jim jordan with live coverage from

the national harbor in maryland, 10:00 a.m. eastern time. it's right here on c-span, c-span now, our free video mobile app or online at c-span.org. do you want to respond? guest: i appreciate the call. these are conversations we should be having. this policing of who is a republican and who isn't, i don't know if that will be a successful political strategy. just to his point, it's not about necessarily hate trump. i've sat here for how long it's been going through point by point where as a republican, disagreeing with fundamental things the republican party now stands for. you said we are putin, it is not russia or communism to hold political leaders accountable to the law. that's the opposite of russia. they were never put on trial of

vladimir putin. donald trump is being held to the standards of the law in their laws and there are facts and have to be presented according to law and if that is proven beyond reasonable doubt with a jury of his peers, that's the justice system. that's the rule of law, that's what has made america great. that's something that is the envy of the world that countries like russia wish they had when they got accused of something. trump is not a victim. the country -- america has given trump every opportunity. the guy owns golf courses, he's super wealthy, this guy could afford world-class legal defense attorneys. and he is still under this problem with the law because at the end of the day, he has broken the law. the facts are the facts and in court, when those things are put before a judge and impartial jury, they are being proven.

at some point, republicans need to look in the mirror and say maybe the problem is inside the house. i respect the call and i respect the disagreement and i would encourage that caller to really think about if you really want to win elections and you want to advance principles of freedom and limited government, if trump is getting it done for you because i don't think he is. host: david in new york, independent. caller: hi, how are you? first of all, i'm an independent and i've never voted democrat. to all the democratic voters, i would like to say that there is a pretty good video that was created by carol swain. it's called -- carol swain was a retired professor, political

science and law professor at vanderbilt university. she is a very smart woman. the video is called the inconvenient truth about the democratic party. i encourage the gentleman to take a look at that video. do research on everything he says. then see if it's true or a lie, do your own research. i have a question -- i think there is a problem in this country with the media. you have people that call themselves journalists but they are basically not giving you the news. they are giving you their opinions. i think we need to do something with the media in this country where there is a clear definition of who is giving you the news in a way that's bipartisan that's just the news and letting the person make

their own decision. then you can have the shows that are just people tied to government. x government officials that might have an agenda and are giving you their opinions. i keep hearing that trump caused the insurrection. what always gets me is what happened on generally six was you had -- they were going to count the votes. from all the states. they were about to do something that democrats have always done which is that you need a person from congress and you need a senator and i believe that senator was going to be ted cruz. they were going to contest the election of trump. i'm sure trump knew they were going to do this.

why would trump want to stop that? that's what i don't understand. why would he basically get in the way of something that might help them in the election? why would he entice and insurrection? host: we got your point. guest: i think there is a disagreement over the procedure. if ted cruz had done that, there would have been some debate in the senate for a time but it would not have held up the certification of the boats by mike pence who ultimately had said that was what he was going to do. i don't think donald trump was under any illusion that the senate proceeding with its business was going to help him remain president of the united states. i think he set in the white house for four hours doing nothing and watched as his supporters wreaked havoc in an unprecedented way of the capital

and he kind of sat there and thought wow, this is cool, this is interesting. these are my people and this has never happened before. wow, how impressive is that that i have engendered this type of passion in my supporters. i think that's what's been going through his head. he wanted to see what unfolded the capital because it was a fitting coda to his presidency. i think it did a great harm to our country. i don't think i will ever forgive him for that for sitting there and doing nothing and praising these folks after it was over and continuing to incite misinformation about it and say we will pardon these people. these people assaulted police officers that day, people were hurt. our capital was ransacked. that's an embarrassment. as americans, i don't care if you are republican or democrat, it was embarrassing that happened. we should never excuse it and

honestly, i think the republican party is living in an alternate universe if they think that by continuing to litigate that question of whether it was good or not on january 6, they will -- that they will win a national election in the united states. for most americans, it really rub them the wrong way and it makes them feel a sense of shame about the country. host: principles first, will they have a role in the general election? guest: i think so. i don't think we are determining who will be the republican nominee necessarily. trump probably has that wrapped up but if he wants to win the white house, he's going to need a lot of principled voters to get there. we are not 50% of the republican party i think we are 20% of the general electorate. host: so you are open to voting for him? guest: i'm not. i think he's got a steep mountain to climb to make that case. he has written himself off with

the january 6 stuff and a lot of other things. this type of voter's voting on their principles rather than their party. they are not someone he can count on to just to vote for him because he is a republican or donald trump. he has to make a case on principles and i think he foreclose that in the party needs to understand that in order to be competitive and win elections, you are going to have to start to make a case to these voters because this voting bloc is continuing to grow. this year, we are sold out at the conrad. you are nikki haley continuing to attract crowds within the primary long after folks thought , people thought it would be over and probably should be but she is continuing to draw 40% of the republican party. that's an issue for the republican party. republicans around the country need to start asking themselves -- do we have a leader that uniting us or creating

irreconcilable divisions over questions we really should not have a debate about. we should not be debating if boudin is a good guy. shouldn't debate whether our courts in our justice system are good and useful and work in keeping the rule of law protected. those cannot be debates but they are currently in the republican party. host: power viewers can watch for themselves the message from the principles first summit if you tune in saturday to c-span at 10:00 a.m. eastern time or error-free video mobile app c-span our online at c-span.org. keith mayo is the founder principles first, thank you for the conversation. guest: thank you. host: we will take a break and in about 30 minutes, we will continue our series examining black history month with the depaul university professor jason hill.

that's coming up after the break in open form, your chance to weigh in on any political or public policy issue on your mind. start dialing in now, those are the numbers on your screen. we will be right back. ♪ >> two years ago, democracy faces greatest threat and our democracy remains on bout and unbroken. >> thursday, march 7, president biden delivers the annual state of the union address during a joint session of congress to outline his priorities for the country.

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then there is also the new york times this morning front page --

that is something the biden administration is considering on the border. that's the front page of the new york times this morning. there is also this in the wall street journal this morning -- you remember the bill passed recently in the senate. it's a $95 billion aid bill in this group of house republicans and democrats are looking at procedural and parliamentary rules to get this on the floor. those are just some of the public policy issues you can talk about this morning. trina in new york, republican. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i wanted to call to respond to the gentleman that was previously on. it really confirmed the points that i originally wanted to make

when i called in. he made some assumptions about former president trump cheering on at the back of the capital break in and assumed he was responsible for it. this is a concern for me because the fact that folks are concerned about that break-in but not the break-in of peoples cars and not the victim at the border or peoples break-ins on people properties and homes and all the things going on now really speaks to the fact that his group is going to have to do a lot to convince people that they are not helping the governmental slum. that's caring about the government and not the people. i had to point to make -- i think the never trumper's need to let go of making so much out of some of the statements former president trump makes. he is from the entertainment

industry and that is how they speak. democratic leaders including biden have said much more nasty things than that. we hear it all the time on television. they just need to put less into what he says and more concerned about what he actually does. i was reluctant to vote for him in 2016 and i was concerned with what he did. let's look at one thing that is never mentioned -- he extended great mercy to hillary clinton, who did terrible illegal things. did anybody extend him mercy? no. instead they are just going after him. i thought that line he made the other night that his revenge is going to be our success was a great line. that is not on any new station. it is unfair -- i am an educated

suburban woman who has no voice in new york. i think it is unfair to say people follow trump lightly, when the opposite is true. he is the first person who listen to the people and said common sense things. host: trina's thoughts, republican in new york. all right, the thrones -- the phones are little messed up. let me move on to reno. phoenix, arizona. independent. caller: i want to thank the woman from new york. she had on a lot of the topics i was going to hit on. the american population is being ghastly it by this

administration. -- is being gas lit by this administration. the new york post has a great article about immigrants coming in. joe biden is having the troops cut down the wires in texas to flood the country with illegal immigrants. people from africa have been criminals. $10,000 to illegal immigrants on debit cards. are we living in the matrix? this is insanity. trump is not perfect. at this point we have little choice. that last guy was a clown up that lady from new york hit on. these people want us to be upset over january 6. to ask like it was any worse

than the summer of love or the black lives matter protests, i cannot believe how dumbed down our society is. our country is going down the toilet. we have to get off this craziness. host: we will hear from ruth in pennsylvania. democratic caller. caller: we have some crazy speakers. i am a democrat. it was so refreshing to listen to that principal's first statement. i said this when donald trump was first running for office. he had no integrity. without that, how can you run anything, much less a country? there are so many facts we have to deal with, so many things going on. without principles and integrity you have no business going -- of in office everywhere. host: here is another policy issue for you.

"fearing prosecution, uab pauses in vitro fertilization after alabama embryo court ruling. the university of alabama health system has paused in vitro due to fear of criminal prosecution and lawsuits. the process, which involves fertilizing eggs outside the body accounts for about 2% of births in the united states." a majority of justices on the alabama supreme court in a decision released friday ruled that fertilized eggs and embryos have the same status as children. catherine in new hampshire. independent. caller: good morning. i have a comment that has three parts. our government or our congress needs to fund more money for

research on what causes diseases like schizophrenia and find cures. i read in a magazine, "the week" that ultrasound opens the way to a brain and clears the way for alzheimer's drugs -- cleared the way so medicines can get past the brain-blood barrier. i thought what if a person has strep and is on an antibiotic? what if the strep bacteria enters the person's brain but the antibiotic does not enter the person's brain so it cannot get past the brain barrier may be only too little antibiotic gets passed into the brain. strep bacteria is left in the brain untreated. later in the brain untreated

strep results in causing schizophrenia. could ultrasound clear the weight so more medicine gets past the brain and destroy the strep and cure schizophrenia? anyway, i thought there needs to be more done. by the way, elon musk -- i keep going to it because it is the first time i heard it. i am not a scientist. he has done something research -- his companies and so forth -- that i think you should look into. host: i have other folks waiting. velma in kentucky. republican. caller: heard a lot today about principles. let's talk about the principles of the democratic party.

they have none. their passion is the slaughter of the unborn. they are anti-christian, anti-god, anti-family. they are not for the usa. january 6, i do not like that that happened. over a decade city after city they attacked. there was arson and vandalism. the border. their way over 10 million illegal people in the country. i heard years ago there were 15 million. this deal they are trying to put in will that in 5000 a day at least. that is not improvement. it is more of what we've already got. criminals said in our country beat up cops and then they let them go. they are always on drums back come and he is part -- there always on trump's back and he is

far from perfect. he made a joke about being a dictator on his first day. everybody knows he is not serious. people get on tv, politicians, and they act like that was so serious. when somebody makes a joke and week off and tell somebody else and completely twisted and turned it around, that is a lie. there is a lot being said. it is not true. i cannot get over the bowl in reference to the democratic party having principles but not the republican. in the house of representatives you have clowns on the democratic side of the house. host: velma's thoughts in kentucky. on capitol hill yesterday the president's brother james biden testified behind closed doors before the committee looking

into impeaching the president. his brother denies the president was involved in his business deals. that is the washington post headline. the washington times headline on the testimony reads "biden's brother denies knowing the source of the money that he received from hunter biden. contradicts the former family associate in his testimony." outside of the closed door testimony there was a microphone set up for lawmakers. jim jordan spoke to reporters about the indictment of the former fbi informant alexander smirnov on the house gop impeachment efforts. >> it is what it is. it does not change the font to mental facts. there are four fundamental facts that hunter biden gets put on the board of burisma. he is not qualified.

he gets put on the board and gets paid $1 million a year. he is not qualified to be on the board and he said so himself. third, in dubai on december 4, 20 14th come the executives at paris's mom -- the executives at burisma asked if we can weigh in on the pressure we are facing from the prosecutor general in ukraine. hunter biden made a call to his dad and then three days later joe biden goes to ukraine and conditions the release of american tax money on the firing of the prosecutor applying the pressure to the company hunter biden sat on the board of. those facts do not change what the source said. host: that was jim jordan. the top democrat on the house oversight and accountability committee also talked to reporters and he said

republicans should drop the effort to impeach the president. >> i wanted to start by restating the obvious. the impeachment investigation essentially ended yesterday in substance if not in form with the explosive revelation that mr. smirnov's allegations about ukrainian burisma payments to joe biden were concocted along with russian intelligence agents and it appears like the whole thing is not only false and fraudulent, but a product of russian disinformation and propaganda. that has been the force behind this investigation for more than a year. as for today's transcribed interview with the brother of president biden, mr. james

biden, we obviously have heard nothing indicating that joe biden had anything to do with the business ventures of hunter biden james biden. nothing has contradicted that basic understanding we have had for many months now. that is essentially where we are. i am restating my call to chairman comber, to speaker johnson to fold up the tent to this circus show. it is over at this point. host: that is jamie raskin this morning. you can talk about that investigation and impeachment efforts this morning. jean in detroit, democratic caller. sorry about the technical mishap. caller: i kept saying maybe the devil does not want me to get through. host: welcome to the conversation. caller: i am a democrat and i am

a christian. i've been in church since i was little girl. i feel like we are in the midst of spiritual warfare. i say that because as a christian, you study the word of god and you strive to be obedient. as human beings we make mistakes and we fall off. i see donald trump as an enemy of the state, and more importantly as an enemy of the word of god. he does everything the opposite of what i have been taught we as christians are supposed to do. we are not to lie, we are not to be prideful and put ourselves above others. we are to love peace and not chaos. we are to use our worlds -- we are to use our words to uplift others, not to tear them down. i see donald trump doing all of those things. he stood in front of a church and held a bible upside down and backwards.

to me that was a sign as to who he is. he called for that rally on january 6 when he knew that was the day when mike pence was supposed to certify the votes. that tells you right there. in 2020, the night before the election he was in michigan. i have watched the rally. i watched him throughout fingers and then stand back to assess the reaction it would have on people. he knows how to deceive and manipulate people. i just wish we would come back to our christian values, study the word of god, restore the sabbath day, and let people be home with their families to go to church or to be with their families. donald trump is an enemy of god. host: jean in louisiana.

democratic caller. caller: we are listening -- host: we are listening to you. caller: usually i listen to washington journal and get my daily dose of irritation from the maga republicans that call in. i turned it on and it was like a breath of fresh air. it was like going back to the time before barack obama when republicans seemed to be normal republicans. i do not think there is a single normal republican in congress now. they all have a little bit of weird in them. host: jane's opinion in louisiana. we will take a break. when we come back we will continue our series examining black history month with jason

hill, author of the book what do white americans owe black people? we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 8:00 eastern and intercollegiate studies president talks about what we can learn from statesmen going back to the ancient greeks. then at 10:00, journalist cara swisher shares burn book, looking at her career coring the tech industry and its key players. she is interviewed by the financial times global business

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continues. host: jason hill is a philosophy professor at depaul univeity joining us as part of our series looking at black history month. he wrote a book "what to white americans owe black people: racial justice in the age of post-oppression." how did you answer that question? >> i answered it by making the claim that reparations have already been paid. restitution to those that have been wronged by making financial restitution. my argument is reparations, by and large, have already been made to black americans through the 1960's civil rights act and through affirmative action programs, through cultural reparations have been made through black studies programs.

basically the employment act. that a free society can go no further in making restitution to a group of people who might have been suffering from the residual effects of slavery. host: are those financial reparations? guest: those are not financial reparations. there is no one living today who was a slave. i was basing my notion of reparations on president reagan's civil liberties act of 1988, in which the state made an apology for the japanese-americans who were interred through world war ii and made a payment of $20,000 to each former detainee still alive when the act was passed. because there are no slaves still alive today, there can be no, going by the logic of the

civil liberties act of 1988, there can be no financial compensation. we can make the assumption under jim crow and racism that continues after jim crow when america was a systemically racist country, when white supremacy did reign supreme come that restitution was due to black americans. i make the case in my book that the 1964 act was a form of reparations and affirmative action programs that followed were meant as forms of making amends to a group of people who are suffering from the residual effects of slavery. host: earlier this week the university of texas plenty old know joseph -- pelinial joseph

was on our program and made an argument for financial reparations. take a listen to what he had to say. >> until 2020 many people would do not -- did not understand slavery and the way black labor built the wealth in united states and built global capitalism. there are extraordinary books about this, including the harvard slaver report, including empire of cotton. greg wilder's every and iv. there are so -- ebony and ivory. there are so many interesting books. when we think about slavery. it is not just the labor of enslaved black people that produces the wealth. we were used as collateral, we were used as mortgage securities, we were used to

provide global investment for everything from harvard university to banks and businesses. black people created the first financial instruments that lead to private equity and hedge funds and venture capital. not just in the united states but around the world. this is demonstrably proved with reams of evidence. first of all is the fact we do not want to talk about that. we do not want to talk about that. once you talk about that you open up a pandora's box. it should not be a pandora's box that is negative. there has been reparations for other groups in the past, including reparations for the holocaust, those things were correct. those were the morally correct choice. jason -- host: jason hill? guest: he is right but he is

talking about our ancestors. unfortunately the time has passed for that type of reparations. when you're talking about the holocaust and japanese, you're talking about people where you can point to the damage. there have been families in mississippi whose properties were confiscated from them and they could show through the unfair laws that were part of the jim crow system that their lands were confiscated. they were entitled to reparations. that is the form of reparations i respect and i'm an advocate for. the sort of far-reaching collectivist notion that our ancestors were the individuals who built america in this broad reaching language, and therefore we the descendants are now due payments, i do not think has any

sort of status in a free society. the time for reparations for those individuals has passed because they are dead. host: when you delved into this and he looked at the civil rights act, would you say is reparations, what evidence do you point to in your book? guest: i made a very startling claim in the book where i said the 1964 civil rights act was the greatest form of moral eugenics in america in the sense that it did violate property rights. i made a defense for why it was the proper violation of property rights, because it said to whites you cannot use your property as an extension of your home or living room and you cannot say i will use my property to discriminate against blacks. even the collusion between the states and whites and given the way in which the state had played a significant role in

creating race -- the 1964 civil rights act said it is not just you cannot use your property to discriminate against blacks, we will make you into nonracist. we will re-socialize your sensibilities and make you into proper nonracist individuals. we will tweak your sensibilities and make you good moral citizens in your approach to blacks. that was a pivotal moment in american history because it was a moment when the state took it upon itself to make moral agents out of whites cap even the grotesque history that existed between blacks and whites. i think it was a heavy-handed approach but i think it was proper because civil rights is not a gift. it was something that was due to blacks. it was a moral form of reparations. i call it a eugenic will moment in history because it sought to

resocialize white people to radically different types of people, to making them into nonracist by telling them how they could and cannot use their property. today racism is an evil. if there any forms of racism committed against blacks, those claims can be brought before courts of law. financial compensation can be administered to the victims of racism. host: as a philosopher, what is your thought on that effort in 1964 to change white people sensibilities? guest: it was heavy-handed but it was proper. i am an independent conservative who belongs to no particular party. i reject the conservative claim that america was never a white supremacist country, that we

never had an ideology of white supremacy and america was never a racist country. that is a bunch of malarkey. it is an insult to black people who have suffered tremendously at the hands of white supremacist and racist law that singled out blacks because of their race. i think it was heavy-handed. given the construct and the norms that were codified, laws that prevented races from intermarrying, as a philosopher i think when you collude with whites and when you create racists -- there were white people wanted to deal with blacks on a strictly commercial basis. on a basis of interpersonal exchanges, but states forbade them with interstate commerce laws. they made racists out of white people.

the biggest enemy against blacks were not individual whites, but also the states. walter williams the great economist pointed this out in his book, "the state against black." i think that heavy headedness was a repair moment in american history. the work is still ongoing. i do not agree with dei initiatives because they are too ideological, but i was and remain in advocate for affirmative action programs they were originally conceived. that is my defense as a philosopher. as heavy-handed as the social eugenic moment of the civil rights act were, they were necessary to correct the harmful wrongs created by the state in maintaining the practice of slavery and in continuing the

norms and codifying those racist norms into law. host: diane is in tennessee. our first caller. welcome to the conversation. caller: i've been trying to get in. i am glad to be on this. when they are talking about reparations for black people, i don't like the word black. i am a light-skinned colored woman compared to whites. all of our races are different colors. i hate the word black. black is a color of a shoe. i don't like the term. i'm looking at him right now on tv. he has a trace of whiteness in his blood like i do. the majority of my relatives are light compared to whites. we do not have as many dark people in our family. talking about reparations.

i want stuff done right now. look at black on black killing each other. buying drugs from the white man, buying guns from the white man. i remember when all of this hit the united states when reagan was in there. how come our black people are afraid to speak up about that? how the drugs are getting in her neighborhood. how old are black people have worked back through the years and some just get $500 a month on social security and will not get food stamps. why don't you address what is happening to us right now. none of you are getting up there talking about that. host: let's give jason hill a chance. guest: i'm not sure what she means by reparations because of drugs. my response would be why would african-americans or people of color, whatever term she is comfortable with using, why have

they relinquished control of their communities to these folks? there are communities of color. i will use the word african-american or black because that is the terminology used in this country that have taken their communities back, that have taken responsibility for their communities. 74% of black children born in this country are born to single mothers, the majority of whom are born into poverty. why are we not talking about the fact that the state, through the welfare program, has played a role in descent devising parents , fathers from being fathers, from being married by rewarding single parenthood by glamorizing single households, which is a great predictor for crime committed by black men. i'm not sure how reparations would remedy the gang problem,

the proliferation of black on black crime. there is nothing reparations can do. a lot of what we need to do is talk about the breakdown of the black family, the decentralization of marriage that exists in this culture. even among whites. the breakdown of the nuclear family is a colossal failure in this country. there is a wider conversation that needs to be had. i'm not sure how reparations would remedy any of the phenomenon she is talking about. host: intranet in philadelphia. -- antoinette in philadelphia. caller: i have been a foundational black american all my life. reparations is the law. i will not get into this thing about black-and-white. when we were slaves there was no such thing.

it is cause and effect. it is the scale of justice. we are human beings. black people are not being treated as such because each and every one of the people that were owed reparations have gotten reparations. you can try to speak for me and you are not even from this country, you are not even part of the cause and effect of slavery. a lot of our problems stem from slavery. we've never had an opportunity, equally. we have never had a chance. we had inventions stolen. we have our language that was stolen. everything was stolen from us and now what we are doing is demanding what is owed to us. if you cannot understand that,

you do not need to be up there trying to speak as a philosopher for me, walking history that was spat on in the 1960's, that was called a nigger. you do not know what that feels like. it is cause and effect. host: we will get a response. guest: i not speaking on behalf of you. you have no business telling me what i have or have not experienced in this country. i came to america in this country when i was 20 years old and lived in the deep south and i have lived here 38 years. i've experienced as a black man in america. if you want to talk about what was stolen from you, which most people do not want to talk about which a professor at harvard university and many black historians have talked about,

90% of the slave trade was initiated by africans. 90% of the slave trade was initiated by africans and arabs who kidnapped other africans, auctioned them, and sold them to europeans. if you want to talk about reparations, you need to talk about looking to nigeria and ghana, and all of the other countries that were complicit in african transatlantic slave trade, which had the health of african chiefs and kings who kidnapped -- they did not see other africans as their own people because they were tribal people -- who kidnapped under -- who kidnapped other africans. this is the dirty secret no one want to talk about.

everyone talks as if there were europeans who landed on the shores. there was collusion among african tribes and europeans. if you want reparations, start calling the nigerians and other sub-saharan countries and talk about reparations from those countries. i reject the claim that i've never experienced racism in this country. you are not in a position -- listening to you i'm becoming a statistician. you do not know what i've gone through in this country. i just do not make myself a victim out of whatever experiences of racism i might've gone through. i transcend them and deal with them and i not become part of the cult of victim ologies you seem to belong to. host: james from mississippi. caller: how are you all doing? host: good morning. caller: i want to let this man

know, hello? host: we are listening. caller: you can say what you want to say about africans, about black folks rounding up american -- african people. you can make that stipulation. over here it is different. slavery started when they went over there, and whatever they did to get those tribes to do what they did, they do not have a right to do it, and they brought them over here and they became slaves. not only slaves, but jim crow. segregation. they could sing, they could dance, but they cannot buy homes and houses because of slavery.

you can sit up here and play these games just like they're playing the game with the debt. african-american debt is $16,000. you need to add a $16 trillion on the debt. until this country pays that debt, you will never get out of this debt. you know it for yourself. you have the audacity to try to blame what these people did over here. you're tried to put it back over there. i can say that about vladimir putin. this is america. you know it. you can smile all you want. host: let's give professor hill the chance to respond. guest: i'm trying to make sense out of his incoherent ramblings. america was a white supremacist

country. i have talked about jim crow in my book. i have talked about the sufferings of blacks in this country. no one can deny that. i said i am not part of the phalanx of thinkers on the right who believe america was never racist. i would never deny that. i'm not placing the blame on african-americans today. whatever he thinks i am doing, flipping the switch by placing the blame on victims. i will say this. reparations -- the arguments for reparations are based on a collectivist premise. that is ancestral blame is to be placed on a group of people had nothing to do with slavery.

the majority of whites living today, their ancestors came after the civil war. there is no one today who is living who is a slave. i will say this. there are no laws that single out blacks as candidates for punishment based solely on their race. there are disparities, there will always be disparities among different groups of people for different reasons. i do not believe in this mono causal attribution of pointing to every disparity among races to racism. sometimes it is racism. i have said the 1964 civil rights act makes racism illegal. if you can show you're the victim of racism that your case belongs in a court of law. if you can show that damage has been done to you and the terms of property confiscation, even

something like redlining, then you are properly dude reparations administered through a court of law. that is as much as i'm going to say in answering that question. here's another -- host: here is another viewer on x. can professor hill distinguish between affirmative action and the current dei movement? guest: affirmative action was meant to bolster both women and men, individuals and groups who were victims of systemic forms of exclusion based on laws that systemically barred them from participating in institutional life. that is in university and corporate life and other forms of worlds and wish they could participate to enhance their well-being. that is affirmative action.

a generally those that permeates -- a general ethos that permeates our country that makes it possible for disenfranchised and marginalized groups to become part of the general participants of individuals who constitute the workforce. the current diversity, equity, and inclusion system is a system of applying unequal standards to ensure preferential outcomes for individuals based on race, sex, and gender inequality. it is based on unequal rewards for unequal performance it has become an ideology. people are subjected to diversity training. it is predicated. look at coca-cola, who have adopted a radical initiative where it wants to become less

white, were less white beads being less punctual, being less certain, less arrogant. listening more. certain attributes that are universal. excellent, certain, confident, are relegated to the domain of whiteness. coca-cola has committed itself to becoming less white. i do not know with this nonsense means. the current ddi initiative has -- the current dei initiative has become a radical ideology that commits itself to illuminating what it calls whiteness from society. i do not know what eliminating whiteness means. i know it trying to eliminate racism means. when you start talking about illuminating whiteness, i think that is a code word.

some of the proponents of the dei initiatives, some of the more radical ones have stated in their work they want to -- the black race can only advance through the limitation of white people. affirmative action historically was simply based on overcoming structural racism, which i think no longer exists in this country. there is no laws in our institutions that with malice seek to exclude minorities. dei initiatives go much further and attempt to indoctrinate individuals into a cult of victimology, which affirmative action programs did not do come into seeing themselves as victims of whiteness.

if you are white then you are automatically a racist, that you have special privilege that are conferred on to you, and by virtue of your whiteness you become an oppressor. it creates an oppressive dyad in our country that i think is very divisive and very dangerous. host: jason hill is a philosophy professor at depaul university. the book is "what to white americans owe black people: racial justice in the age of post-oppression." let's take the second part of that title. racial justice in the age of post-oppression. what did you mean? guest: i meant that since the 1964 civil rights act we no longer live in a officially repressive society. we do not have -- that does not mean we do not have individual

racists. we will always have psychotics and idiots, which is what racists are. in terms of america being in officially oppressed society, meaning systemic racism exists, meaning there are laws that permeate our institutions. laws that improperly bar blacks from being participants in institutions. those do not exist. the 1964 civil rights act helped bar such laws. if any institution is caught with any norms or laws that bar blacks or other minorities or women from entering those institutions, they will catch hellfire. a post-oppression society means nothing more than a society that is no longer officially constituted by systemically

oppressive policies, that by law or press and exclude persons from participating in public institutions and private institutions. host: we will go to janet in pennsylvania. caller: good morning. i have a couple points. i laud the professor for speaking about the africans selling. they were kidnapping and selling their own people to the people that were coming there on the ships to bring them to america. the other thing is, i never heard anybody say it, i know i have known that for a long time. the civil rights act would've never been passed if it had not been for the republican votes. the democrats in the segregated

south did not want that bill to pass. robert byrd, who was a senator from west virginia, and strom thurmond, they were wizards of the ku klux klan. it was the democrats who are the segregationists and who were holding back the blacks. it is always put like it is the republicans. one other thing. president lincoln was the first republican president. he freed the slaves. after the civil war there were 16 blacks in congress. that went on until the 1920's. to say the blacks have not had any opportunities, we have had a black president, a vice president. we have governors, we have mayors, we have heads of police. we have district attorneys and congresspeople. i think the person that has

stirred all of this was president obama. we never heard any of this racial stuff like it is today with clinton or bush. i think he is the one that has divided this country. host: jason hill. a lot there. guest: a lot of thoughts there. condoleezza rice saying she became a republican because the democrats prevented her party from voting and the republicans said what you want to be and they said we will register you to vote and her family has been republican ever since. there was lot to unpack there that we do not have time to talk about about the collusion of the dixie democrats and their participation in the continued jim crow and segregation of the south and the historical role republicans have played in the

enfranchisement of blacks. the other thing i want to say is i have lived in this country for 38 years and i have seen increase in market improvement of race relations. there is a larger thing to talk about. whether to attributed to barack obama or not would be a larger conversation and i would need a lot more evidence at my disposal. i would say we are seeing victimology, a very ugly un-american phenomenon, where the weight the more you make yourself into an unattractive victim, the more you are rewarded. one of the reasons i think this is becoming the case is that excellence -- and i'm a big advocate of black history month. a lot of your viewers might not believe this. i belong to the 1776 movement where we talk about black excellence and talk about teaching people about black

heroes is that the enshrinement of mediocrity and the annihilation of excellence in this country have become the coin of the realm. part of how we get beyond this cult victim balaji -- this cult of victimology -- in this country, if with tenacity and resilience there is not anything a black person cannot accomplish. we still live in the latest republic on the face of earth and it deals opportunities to blacks if they wish to take advantage of it. there is no excuse for any black person not to take advantage of the plethora of opportunities. nigerians come here and they

out-earn whites. if america were systemically racist, than the immigrants who come here who are black would not have advanced. i use myself as evidence of this phenomenon. they would not have advanced and made something as remarkable of their lives as they have. it is not that they do not experience racism, it is that they realize their creative agency and their capabilities are sufficient to transcend and navigate the racist terrain they might find themselves in. kudos to your collar for making that point. host: clyde in new york. caller: hello? host: good morning. caller: first of all, mr. hill, you're entitled to your opinion. we foundational black

african-americans take offense to how you are basically telling us that they are speaking gibberish. for us, it is a whole different thing. you are concerned about the slaves that actually went through it. we systematically have gone through this thing that we should be repaid. when you said reparations, reparations means to repair. with our ancestors, they went through it, we did not go through it per se. in the long haul we've been systematically kept out of this geopolitical system. it is like monopoly. everybody else has been given a hand up.

even martin luther king said in his speech. poor immigrants, white immigrants, came over here and they got the reparations we were supposed to get. now here it is, they own the land, they own the farms. because we live in a capitalist is society, we have been placed at the bottom. since we have been placed at the bottom is like playing monopoly. we are told to get into this game and to play with no money. eventually we can go around the board of monopoly. eventually we will get trampled on. we have not had any base. considering that after slavery we wound up having 60 towns that we built.

they deliberately destroyed those towns that we segregated ourselves. not to mention all of the atrocities they do not speak about that happened to us. here is. you gently. -- eugenically. there is psychological stuff that has been done to our people that it will take generations to get out of those are the things that need to be repaired. host: professor hill? guest: i do not think you can speak on behalf of all black people. blacks are not a monolith. the monolithic take on which you presuppose your arguments are false. there are blacks that are for reparations and blacks that are not. let me get to the meat of what you're saying. in my book i wrote, "we have overcome," which preceded the

one "what do white people oh black people," i tell the story of immigrants, and i tell the story of a gemini worked with what i was working three jobs to put myself through school. working 40 hours a week. this gentleman cannot speak english but he was working in the bottom tier of the bank with me stuffing envelopes for four dollars an hour. i do not know what kind of handout he got. i tell the story of immigrants. hundreds of immigrants i have met who did not speak a word of english, who came to this country, some of them legally and illegally. i do not know what kind of handouts the vietnamese or the chinese or the polish or the tons of african immigrants i went to school with at georgia state -- i got into a lot of top-tier universities that i cannot afford so i went to a state university and i went to lots of immigrants who are working up to three jobs at gas

stations. pakistani immigrants. i do not know what kind of handout you're talking about that these people got. i have kept up with some of them and they have made something remarkable with their lives. one of them went on to become an architect, a surgeon will the vietnamese immigrant became a restaurant tour and owned two restaurants and retired at the age of 40. i still cannot afford to retire as a professor. these are people who came without a sense of entitlement. they are grateful to be here in the greatest country on earth. some of them mastered the language with great difficulty and achieved a level of articulate with the language that far exceeded people who had the privilege of being born in america. i take umbrage with the idea that people came to this country

and got handouts. i've never met a single person who became a millionaire, and immigrant, who got a handout in this country. you are right that there is still generational trauma. i think generational trauma emerges from the trauma of the standards in which these individuals are born. a lot of these individuals are born in families ruled by single mothers who do not have the time of day to look after their children because they are too busy working three jobs because the fathers are not there. this generational trauma that you are talking about, this country has been trying to deal with this through various programs, affirmative action, the civil rights act, the various programs. i speak as a college professor. if you are a black man and you are considered an endangered species because you arespecies .

if you have a c average there is no liberal arts college that will not admit you into their domain. there are no excuses. i want to reiterate, if you pull yourself up with your honor and your integrity, your perseverance, your resilience, and take ownership of your life, you are responsible for your life, your destiny and fate are your responsibility. the white man is not going to save you and he should not save you. your life belongs to you, and your life is yours. god bequeaths to you this precious thing called your life. stop looking for others to immediately take care of what's yours. host: you said black history month is important. why? guest: because as a college professor of 26 years i am appalled at the knowledge

americans have. i have a student last year he didn't know who president clinton was. one month devoted to any kind of history. i think it's important. next week i am teaching martin luther king, a class called what is freedom. we are going to look at dr. king's letter from a birmingham jail and the notion of what it is to be gifted and black in a country at a time when america was systemically racist. mason who was born a slave and died a millionaire. we will look at the black wall street of america founded by jb strasburg during the oil boom of the 1920's. tulsa, oklahoma where you have thousands of black moving into the black wall street, creating hotels, insurance companies, banks, traffic systems.

we are going to look at marva collins, the elementary school teacher in chicago who formed her own elementary system and became a pioneer in black education to excellence on the maligned west side of chicago. and johnson who worked for nasa and was integral in forming orbital mechanics at nasa. that reason is also because people just don't know about black excellence in this country. they don't know enough about the enormous contributions that blacks have made to american history. why? because we have lived in a country that has shortchanged black excellence and black heroism. a country with radical

pernicious policy seeking to abolish the humanities history, sociology, and replace it with a radicalism and activism. i think that black history is important. my students can know something about billy mason and black wall street tycoons and heroes. that is a very wonderful thing. it's not going to be more divisive. this is why i want to advocate that people not think of black people as victims and helpless or as pawns, but as people who are capable and used their heroism to make something remarkable of their lives. these stories must be told. black history month is the month that is selected to tell the stories. then it's a good thing.

host: professor at depaul university. the book is what do white americans owe black people: racial justice in the age of post-oppression. thank you, professor, for your time. that does it for the washington journal happening here just outside of washington is the conservative political action conference. it is about to get underway. you will hear from the south dakota governor and jim jordan along with other federal and state lawmakers. live coverage here on c-span.

♪ ♪ >> live coverage here on c-span

of the conservative political action conference just outside of washington dc at the national harbor in maryland. waiting for the speakers to begin on this first day of our coverage. scheduled to speak is florida congressman byron donalds and alabama senator tommy tuberville. you are watching live coverage on c-span. host: before we get to your calls, let's look at some polls. this is from q research, gallup, excuse me, who found that the political and economic indicators are not promising for president biden seeking a second term. this is the number that they .2. 20% satisfaction right now with president biden. what they write is over the past four decades, incumbent presidents have been reelected when the majority americans are dissatisfied with the way that things are going in the country. the cut off seems to be 30%

satisfaction. less than 30%, in 1992 and 2020 elections when the elder bush and former president trump lost, where more than 30% were satisfied in the years that incumbents won. those two former presidents lost when they were seeking a second term when the satisfaction rate was under 30%. another poll to share with you this morning. the majority of americans think both president biden and former president trump are too old to serve a second term. 59% of those polled said both are too old. axios reported this week that by then officials see next month's state of the union address as a big public reset moment, a chance to overcome, or

at least neutralize, concerns about president biden's age and vitality. the president at the address on march 7 is likely to tout his legislative victories. yesterday he was in california talking about the save plan and his announcement of canceling $1.2 billion in student loans. [video clip] pres. biden: this plan is the most generous program and today we are doing it even faster and quicker than ever before. i'm proud to announce our save plan. we are immediately canceling the debt loans of more than $150,000 borrowers six months ahead of schedule. borrowers enrolled in the save plan and have been playing student loans for 10 years. if they borrowed less than $12,000 it is forgiven.

this action will be used to help graduates who borrowed smaller loans pay them back on track faster with debt forgiveness than ever before. this builds on other progress i've made canceling student debt for close to 4 million americans through various actions. host: the washington post front page of this morning, biden cancels $1.2 billion in loans. on their reporting, the president's debt relief policies have been mixed with praise and frustration. activists have applauded his targeted approach. the administration has forgiven about 138 billion dollars in student loans for 3.9 million people largely using existing relief programs. but they continue to implore biden to do more despite the crushing defeat of a more sweeping loan forgiveness plan before the supreme court. conservatives remain critics of debt policy that they say comes at the expense of other tax

payers, many of whom never attended college. are you going to vote for president biden? democrats only this morning. sylvia in alexandria, virginia. you say yes. what are the issues? caller: yes. i think he is doing a good job. is it perfect? is any president perfect? no. do we have reasons to complain sometimes? i'm not complaining. i think, ok, groceries were high, grant you. gas was high and it made everybody miserable. i understand that completely. we all had to suffer through that. is it getting a little better? yes, i have noticed that it is getting better, but it's not perfect yet. what else? i think there is wisdom in what he's doing, and considering the

opposite of who might get in there, i tell you -- that really is fearful to me. that's about all i have to say. host: sylvia, before you go, are you surrounded by fellow democrats in your family and friends circle? if so, are they enthusiastic about president biden? how would you characterize how they will vote? caller: well, my immediate family who i live with, yes, they are democratic. i have relatives, sisters, who are actually very republican. one sister lives in oklahoma. she has passed. one sister lives in south carolina. they are very, very republican.

in fact, we stopped talking back when it was hillary and trump running in 2016. it was ugly. trust me. my sister in oklahoma actually passed away because she had copd and refused to get the shot. host: let me ask you, is your sister-in-law in south carolina, who is she going to vote for? do you know? caller: at this point, i would say that she would vote for trump. my sister, not my sister-in-law. host: understand. randall's town, maryland come you say no. you are a democrat and you don't plan to vote for president biden for a second term? caller: