good morning it is friday, february 23. the alabama supreme court rules

frozen embryos are csidered children. since then, fertility clicsf pause there ivf treatment programs. give us a call. if you are in favor or oppose? what impact do you think the ruling will have? if you supported call (202) 748-8000, if opposed (202) 748-8001, we have a line set aside for alabama residents (202) 748-8002, you consent to text at (202) 748-8003 and post on social media facebook.com/cspan and on x at

cspanwj. the alabama supreme court ruling leads uncertainty around ivf in the article starts with the alabama supreme court's ruling that embryos her children leads to murkiness around frozen embryos. it raises fast legal questions including how and if left over embroyos can be destroyed. we will take a look at a couple of facts about ivf. approximately 4 million births

in the u.s. are from ivf in the average cost of a single cycle cost between 10,000-15,000. let's take a look at how nikki haley talked about the ivf ruling in interview on wednesday. [video clip] >> i want to ask you about alabama, the supreme court said embryos are considered children do you agree? >> embryos to meet are babies. >> those created ivf. >> i had artificial insemination. when you talk about an embryo, to me, that is a life. i see what they are talking

about. >> do you have concerns about the way that could hurt people seeking ivf treatment? >> i think that's a conversation a doctor needs to have with their patient. michael and i have those conversations and when you have those conversations you talk about and limit the number. of viable embryos and if the state is saying nonviable embryos can't be done away with? >> this is one where we need to be respectful and sensitive. when my doctor came in we knew what was possible and what wasn't in we took precautions of how this was going to go. we knew exactly what we were looking at.

every woman needs to know what she is looking at and then you make the decision that is best for your family. >> wouldn't legislation have a chilling effect on what is possible for families? >> the kind they're pushing in alabama that embryos are protected is life? >> i would one of look at how they are treating it. these are sensitive subjects with the details matter. now, when you see people having trouble getting pregnant, those are conversations we need to have. rep mccaul: we are taking your calls about the ruling. if you support us he can give us a call (202) 748-8000, if you

oppose (202) 748-8001 a special diet for alabama residents (202) 748-8002 and a line for texting (202) 748-8003. nikki haley did clarify her opinion about the ivf ruling saying she believes embryos are children but disagrees with the supreme court ruling. let's take a look at vice president kamala harris and she did comment about this topic. [video clip] >> what we have seen on this issue is sent over a course of 1.5 years. people are suffering as a result of this. not only is it about freedom that has been taken in a country that prides itself on being a

democracy. it means that in states people have been suffering and we must be explicit about what that is because this is not a hypothetical point. women have been having miscarriages in toilets and denied emergency care. and now, putting ivf access of risk. couples who want to start a family are now being deprived of access to what can help them start a family. the proponents are saying an individual does not have a right

to it an unwanted pregnancy and on the other hand they don't have a right to start a family. host: that was the vice president in michigan and here's the front page of the new york times the ruling sisters worry in alabama. one woman cried saying that embryos should be considered children. she felt that one of her cherished beliefs as a christian had been affirmed because life begins when embryos form. another had tears of despair because she had struggled for years to have a child and now she was ending a cycle but on wednesday she learned her clinic

at the university of alabama was halting ivf treatments in response to the ruling. we have mike in vermont. linda: thank you for taking my call. i think it's great what they're doing in alabama. if these embryos are people i guess they would also be citizens of the united states. and if they are citizens we should get them social security numbers. this is a great thing and i want to say thanks to the people in south carolina and they'll figure it out even more. host: richard in new jersey.

caller: good morning, and the ruling they included his christian faith and doesn't the constitution saves separation of church and state? how can church doctrine be part of a ruling like that? they quote christianity and the bible and in genesis 2:7, a person is not a person until they take their first breath. for hundreds of thousands of years they did not consider embryos or fetuses people. why don't they accept what the bible says because it's explicitly there because the

soul does not enter until it takes his first breath. host: is that what you believe as well? caller: yeah, that is what i believe because that's the common practice of hundreds of thousands of years. look at our government. you don't get a social security number as a fetus. if you go back a couple hundred years, this was not an issue. believe what the bible says instead of being hypocritical and telling everybody what they have to do. this is typical of fascism. telling everybody how they have to live in this is what were dealing with. host: richard mentioned the

ruling from the alabamame court and here's what the chief justice said in a concur opinion. the peopalabama have declared tharn han life is sacred and we believe each human beingmaden the image of god. all three branches of governmen treat human life with reference carving out an exception would be unacceptable to the people of this ste who have required us to treat every human being with the accordance of a holy god who made them in his image. we have an alabama caller in tuscaloosa. caller: this is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of my bike.

coming from the great state of alabama. you don't have health care or anything to help kids. these republicans are running around talking about women's rights. they want kids to come here but they don't want to take care of them. the republican party, they don't do anything for their citizens and they want to run the country until tell women what to do with their bodies. anytime you see someone on the republican side they don't do anything but they will take a woman's rights away from her. this is not a child. that is ludicrous.

you don't do anything for the child once they get here. that is crazy. i hope to god that people around the country don't believe in this crop because alabama is the worst state in the union when it comes to women's rights. host: checking in on facebook, ivf is not needed like the necessity of abortion so i don't see why we should allow it to continue. if you can't have kids, adopt what else do you expect from a red state? politicians took everything from them and left them with religion. ryan says the embryos that are currently frozen shall remain frozen in perpetuity as a result

of this cot ruling and will never become a human being. so how was this pro-life? what am i missing here? christine in michigan. caller: i'm opposed to the whole thing but especially, there was a guy who called in and people calling themselves christians. in the bible it said when god breathed into adam's mouth he became a living soul and not until then. he was created in god's image. these people calling themselves christians they need to read their bible. all of this could be settled in

leave women and men have children if they want to have children. host: this is on the washington times below the fold, profamily conservatives grapple with in vitro ruling. frozen embryos created are considered children and could trigger a death laws. the scrambling of the politics around abortion and an election year poses thorny questions who promote marriage and families but couples that are unable to have children spend thousands on ivf as their best treatment.

mike pence said that ivf helped to expand his family and should be protected from state republicans who impose restrictions after they overturned the access to abortion saying that ivf would not be affected. health clinics pause treatments out of fear of prosecution. thus on the washington times if you'd like to read the rest of that article and paul is calling from england. caller: regarding the subject i think every life is sacred. that is my view. host: what do you think should be done with the embryos that

are not used? caller: all i can say, every life is sacred. that's all i can say. host: earl in reading, california. caller: these are unfertilized eggs. host: no, they are fertilized. but they are fertilized outside of the womb in a lab. caller: but in their present state they are frozen. host: they are fertilized but they are frozen. caller: i am a christian and i read my bible a couple of times and i could see an embryo

breathing in the mother. it is like calling police dog and officer. i'm not sure in a frozen state we have lif until you unfreeze it and it is implanted in the mother's surrogate. it's a confusing topic. i am for life. if i get this right, i support life. i oppose the government getting involved. i am all about freedom thank you for the opportunity. host: the ap has given us some information about what ivf is saying that it offers a solution

would a woman has trouble getting pregnant it involves retrieving her eggs and combining them in a lab dish with spur to create a fertilized embryo which is transferred into the uterus in an attempt to create a pregnancy. it is done in cycles that may take more than one cycle it could take a couple's eggs or those from a donor in the treatment uses hormones to trigger ovulation and a needle is used to remove them from the ovaries. eggs can be fertilized by adding experimental lab or a spare room injected into an egg. they culture the egg over time to create developmtal stages and those are transferred or

stored for future use. the question here is that those who were stored what should be done with those in with the status of those are. elaine and st. louis, missouri. caller: i wonder if these frozen embryos have tax reduction since they are alive. can the parents take them out of there taxes every year? i think this is foolishness. thank you, wonderful program. host: one and from chico, california. caller: i think this is a distraction to take away

attention from the d.c. five hearings. host: were given a talk about this for now but we'll talk about anything you want an open forum. host: lester in alabama. caller: the lady who called who said it should be a tax deduction, put that in there. let the alabama supreme court pay for their storage. thank you for your time.

host: let's talk to greg in pennsylvania. caller: i'm having flashbacks to the dobbs decision. i'm an attorney and have been for 45 years. it frustrates me to hear all of these experts. i tell every client, everybody's been an attorney since oj. people don't understand what dobbs stated and with the alabama supreme court did. host: ok, so tell us. caller: it's an 1800s law and that is what it's doing.

they are interpreting an old law , that is their job. the judiciary's job is to stay in their lane just like the supreme court didn't dobbs. they said there is no right to abortion in the constitution. host: let's keep to the alabama supreme court decision. caller: they interpreted a law from the 1870's and if you don't like the law you change the law. you just had a collar say they have to pay for storage. that's not the issue. host: do you think the law

should be changed? do you agree with the idea behind the ruling? caller: what was that? host: do you agree with the ruling? i understand that they interpreted the law on the books. caller: yes, that's what they did and now you're asking me to go outside the context of the decision. i don't know what to say about that. that's not the issue. the supreme court focused on what it was asked. i agree with the last lady there are many more important things in this and i don't think it's a big deal.

host: helen from new jersey. caller: this is a question for science not religion. either an embryo is a human being or not and this is a human being that has a right to life the court's job was to interpret the law and not make law. host: what do you think about whether or not it is a human being and deserves to be a child under the law? caller: we all started out as an embryo i don't think an embryo is a child. we all have various stages of life once i weighed 15 ounces.

host: let me ask you about the concept of destroying the unused embryos. caller: again, is a human or not human? this is why it is dangerous to go under these procedures and it should be thought out carefully. are you willing to take the moral responsibility of taking a human life. it's a grave responsibility whether were talking about the death penalty to take a human life. host: you think the parents should be charged with homicide in that case? caller: that's a legal

question. that would be a question of the court and legislature to decide. but it is certainly a human being and we should not dispose of human beings. host: lloyd in pennsylvania. caller: good morning how are you? who picks your topics? there are a lot more important things than to talk about the ivf rulings. you have an evil demon like joe biden and you're not talking about it. you're not talking about real news. i think you're not reporting the real news. host: that's the last comment

for this part of the program and we will have time for open forum later in the show. the national governors association is happening here in d.c. and we will hear from the chair gov. spencer cox about political polarization and later terry schilling will discuss campaign 2024 and the conservative political action committee being held later this week. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington. keep up with the days events with the livestream from the

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word for word. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. "washington journal," continues. host: we are joined now by gov. spencer cox a republican from utah in the chair of the governors association. welcome to the program. you are here in washington for the governors association winter meeting. can you remind us of what the association is in the purpose of these meetings? guest: the national governors association is an association for all of the nation's governors and we get together several times a year to talk about the issues important to every state.

we still believe the states of the laboratories of democracy. we believe that is where true policymaking is happening and so this is a cool opportunity for republicans and democrats, it's a bipartisan association. i'm the chairman this year. it is one of those rare institution that still exist in the united states where we actually get along pretty well and work together. host: let's talk about getting along better. you have an initiative called disagree better. can you tell us what that means? guest: i was looking at reducing

the cost of health care and energy policy and it became very clear, you can't solve the problems facing our country if we all hate each other and sadly, the experts will tell you we have become much more polarized over the past 20 years. our inability to even have debate in discussions never mind find solutions. the idea behind disagree better is that we can and should disagree. it is a civility initiative is about staying true to our values in a way that does not demonize the other side which

allows us to have a productive discussion. i'm grateful to have governors jump in with both feet. they have to film the ad with someone from the other side of the aisle and they talk about how they can still be friends and have those disagreements and is not about policy disagreements with the dinner table. 30% of americans have lost relationships because of politics. that's new and is very destructive. host: if you would like to join the conversation you can do so by party for democrats (202) 748-8000, for republicans (202) 748-8001, for independents (202)

748-8002. host: how did we get here you said people of lost family ties over politics and people are disagreeing in a way that's not so nice. how did we get to this point? caller: there's been no lot of research on how we got here. about 20 years ago a famous book was written called bowling alone. these institutions and community events had started to disappear in this country and religious attendance is down. those places where people would gather and have friends whether it is bowling leagues, civic institutions, religion.

people are lonely and they have fewer friends than they have had in the past and at the same time we are wired for connection. you have the internet and social media. we are losing our true friends but finding fake connections online. we are looking for our tribes and we find tribes and politics. politics has become religion for people and infiltrated religion so we have elevated our identity as political animals. when i was growing up i had no idea who the republicans or democrats were in my town. we knew each other as americans first. we were dads, moms hers.

republicans and democrats were down the list. and now it's the number one way we identify each other and that's incredibly divisive. we were not meant to be political animals and it's driving a wedge between us. host: let's talk about the meeting going on today and tomorrow. what are your top policy areas and concerns? guest: we will be talking about disagreeing better and we are very fortunate we have two supreme court justices. sotomayor and barrett will be on stage. they will talk about that institution and how they disagree with each other and are still friends. were talking about the rising

cost of housing. that will be a top priority in discussions around things like ai and causing concern for a lot of americans and policymakers. lots of discussion with the executive committee around things like immigration and federal regulation and things that are really hurting states. host: i want to make a little plug that conversation with juice sotomayor and amy coney barrett we will cover that on c-span starting at 2:30 p.m. eastern it will soe on c-span now and online at c-span.org. you will want to stick around and watch that as well.

but start taking calls. the end is up first, a democrat. caller: hey governor i did watch a little bit of c-span with you and the governor from maryland. can you give me a quick answer. do you support donald trump? that's just a basic question. will you support him as president? guest: i get asked this question a lot. i have not voted for president of either major party and 12 years. i think both parties are disappointing us now. caller: your political party

has sworn allegiance with and will not say anything against vladimir putin. he is more -- this man has cheated on his wife. ronald reagan, he was a good man. george bush was a good man and his father was a good man. how can your party support him when you know he is a bad man? my mother told me never to be on the side of ron. host: we will get the governor to respond?

guest: as i stated before i believe there is a failure in our country with both parties. there are more unaffiliated americans now then republicans or democrats. we have seen this major failure with 70% of americans who don't want either candidate. i think we are making a huge mistake. there are incredible public servants, amazing governors who i think could make wonderful presidents in the first major party who figures this out will win by 10 points. host: when you say you don't support either of the candidates , do your constituents agree with that? guest: this is one of the

important conversations we need to have. many of my family members are very supportive of donald trump and i understand why. i don't get to choose the republican nominee. the republican party does. there are still elections happening. we have one happening in south carolina and there are still other candidates on the ballot. ultimately they will make the decision. the voters don't need me to tell them who to vote for. host: speaking of south carolina we have bill in florence. caller: i have two questions for you.

do you still have time to play in your garage band and how was it to learn the base? guest: we had to stop playing over covid but we did play at christmas. my brother-in-law is the son of merrill osmond and he taught me how to play bass and we have a lot of fun when we get to play together. caller: when you were appointed as lieutenant governor you worked closely with the guy who reside before you, greg l. he resigned because he was concerned about the financial future of his family and recently he has been implicated in improper funds, a loan that was forgiven.

were you involved with that at all? guest: i'm not sure i know exactly what you were talking about but no. i assure you, neither was he. greg is a great man and a good friend and i'm not aware of any legal issues involving him. i am fortunate that i got to service lieutenant governor. host: will you be voting in the primary? caller: i will. host: who are you voting for in the primary? caller: i don't really know. host: this is aubrey from california. caller: i appreciate you and your reasonable presentation. you say both parties are

failing. democrats got through a bill that had both sides with a bunch of stuff republicans wanted for years. they were able to reduce taxes on working party but if you go to cpac you listen to how they want to and democracy while pointing to the cross and support victor orban with trump saying immigrants are poisoning america. every single week i hear the democrats want america to fail

and become venezuela. i can turn three radio stations on with that same rhetoric. given one side is 99 out of a hundred crazy and democrats are doing what they have always done. can you try to explain to me how both sides do it? guest: we could sit here and give lots of examples of terrible behavior on the others and i will admit, my party is deeply flawed and i don't agree with everything that happens in my party but i stay in the fight because i believe in conservative ideals. i am a ronald reagan republican and i have always said that. i think my party has made some mistakes and i can give you a laundry list on the left.

we could sit here and point out the flaws of each other. i would ask you, have you ever changed your heart and mind when someone attacked you? the answer is no. i still believe in persuasion and i believe the way we persuade each other is to treat each other with dignity and respect not just when the other side treats us with dignity and respect. i consider myself a student of martin luther king jr.. we have been studying his speech on loving your enemies. it's not one of his more well-known speeches but i encourage people to read it. he talks about the power of loving people who not only disagree with those for ojeda's and thus the only way we can change this country.

that is exactly what my messages and something i'm trying to emulate. i don't always get this right. i am up for reelection and i screw up all the time including this week when i responded in anger to an attack and is something i have to remind myself of every day and something i'm still working on but what i truly believe will make america a beautiful place. we can cast aspersions but it will not heal anything. there are too many performers being elected to congress. they are not interested in solving problems but getting clicks m likes and that is a problem in congress but i am grateful we have good governors who were still be adults in the

room. host: let's talk to it independent in texas. caller: to talk about reagan he got rid of the true doctrine in the media no longer has to tell the viewers the truth. host: the fairness doctrine. caller: i'm sorry, i'm nervous. guest: that's ok. caller: january the sixth they did say it was a fraud election and during covid, i was watching a news briefing and someone asked trump why the red states were getting ventilators and blue states were having a hard time. we are talking about people dying. trump said if the blue states want ventilators they need to

praise me more. he has been convicted of rape. he raped e. jean carroll and for them to stand behind a man who says he is the chosen one and if you don't love me you don't love america. then if you have the backbone to stand up to this man and tell these people what kind of evil person he is and have done nothing but praise him. guest: i didn't hear a question in there. host: she mention the fairness doctrine. do you think that would help with disagreeing better? guest: potentially, i have not thought of the fairness doctrine

in a while but when we talk about polarization, politicians play a part in this. they have used fear and divisiveness to capture votes and divide us. the media plays a significant role. far too many cable news pundits and stations have gotten us addicted to contempt. in the outrage machine and that's happening across the country and the rise of social media with algorithms that highlight the most extreme viewpoints. i think it's important for your viewers and listeners to understand. the polling is fascinating if you look at the partisan gap it's not that wide. if you put 100 republicans and democrats in a room and asked

them about guns, abortion and immigration. there is a difference but the difference is narrow. we have a perception gap in the perception gap is huge. americans think every republican is extreme. most republicans think every democrat is the most extreme and that just isn't true but because that's all we hear about on cable news and social media is understandable we think there is this giant gap and i can hear the contempt of the voices of people calling in. they don't want to engage with someone who supports president trump.

i have had lots of problems with the way the president has done and said things i don't hate the president and the people who support him and is important to understand what they're feeling and why they feel they need someone who will fight for them and that's missing from the dialogue. host: you and your fellow governors will meet with biden today. what will be your biggest ask from him? guest: there will be conversation about immigration and the failure of the federal government. there is so much more the president can do. congress has a role to play in this as well and i'm disappointed they have kick the can down the road. it's been 40 years since we have had immigration reform.

this is a great example of that gap which is not wide at all. most democrats believe the president should do more to secure the border. some polling shows 70% of democrats believe we need to do more to secure the border and republicans believe we should fix legal immigration. that's not just a democratic policy. if they let me and my fellow governors work on this issue we could solve it by lunch. we have a president who won't act on the border and we will see what happens in a congress who punts on this issue. host: let's go to ed.

caller: you need to stand up to these people. they are talking all over you. trump this, trump that. they're letting people in from the terrorist list. stand up for yourself man, don't let these people talk all over you. host: we were talking about disagreeing better, it's seen as a weakness. guest: that's one of the frustrating things i hear often. if we don't treat the other side

with contempt and destroy the other side and we are weak. i think the exact opposite. it is so much easy to hear on msnbc and come on c-span and listen to fox news and then come on c-span and attack the other side and tear them down. i pushed back against the policy, i just mentioned immigration and i have serious problems with what the president is doing. this contempt is not helping any problems. it takes much more courage to stand there in front of someone you disagree with and treat them with respect and dignity. if there are any blisters out there who was actually interested in a happier life and solving america's problem there is a way to do this and it's

around the dinner table, great with your neighbors and i am practicing it. what i'm talking to someone who was angry or upset i asked them to tell me more about why they believe what they believe and it gives me a chance to cool down and shows them i'm interested in where they are coming from. with 99% of the people that hate me or are angry with me. when i listen to them they are will listen to me. we can get away from the zero-sum game and solve problems together. host: i know you have to get back to your meeting so i will let you go. gov. spencer cox chair of the

national governors association. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you mimi. host: today we have live discussi withusces sotomayor a amy coney barrett and that starts off at 2:30 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now and online at c-span.org. up next on washington journal we will talk to terry schilling of the american principles project he will talk about the conservative gathering at cpac. we will talk to khalil gibran muhammad about race and

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>> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are joined by terry schilling, the president for the american principles project. thank you for coming. tell us what it is, what your priorities are and where your funding comes from. guest: it is a political action committee for the american family. there all of these bags, big pharma, oil and tobacco but we also realize that there was no one actually representing american families that was punishing, -- politicians that ruin our kids' education. we hunkered down and started crisscrossing the country and building support. we are supported by about six -- 15,000 donors, a lot of small dollar donations and emails and online fundraising. we represent the american family

from a center-right standpoint. we believe that parents should be in charge of the parent -- the kids' education and make health care decisions for them and to protect the kids in a crazy digital world. the internet is a crazy space and we need more protections. host: has the organization endorsed former president trump for the election this year, are you supporting him? guest: we are totally supporting him. we will be spending $30 million this election cycle to get him elected as well as some down ballot races. we will be investing tens of millions of dollars into the quarter -- the core four states, arizona, wisconsin, georgia and north carolina. there has been no one who has pledged to protect our children from all of the threats approaching them and attacking them. host: you do not feel that nikki haley has done that? guest: nikki haley is more

libertarian than i am comfortable with and i think they had more american families are comfortable with. she has been reticent to be able to commit anything at the federal level. donald trump, we did a scorecard earlier. out of all the candidates, regraded them on five things, protecting kids from transgender ideology, the hormone surgery and all of that, protecting them from poor and online. donald trump got five checkmarks out of the six we were grating on and everyone else fell short. he is a very good profamily candidate. host: if you would like to ask our guest a question or make a comment can do so on our lines by party. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. you were a panelist yesterday at cpac on trans issues. can you tell us what it was about and what you talked about. guest: it was primarily focused

on how to protect kids from the surgeries and hormone blockers that cause permanent harm and damage. i was so blessed to be joined on the main stage by reputable doctor, his name is eton hime, who was a whistleblower in texas. governor abbott and attorney general paxton essentially came out with orders saying that these surgeries and hormone blockers are not to be prescribed to children and they were saying was child abuse. dallas children's medical hospital and dallas, the largest children's hospital said that they were not doing it. he was a whistleblower that expose them as misleading the public. it is important that these whistleblowers are coming out more and more. there was a nurse that came out of st. louis that expose the children's hospital there for reckless endangerment of children. but we are told all the time that these surgeries do not happen to kids and these hormone

blockers do not happen to kids. but these whistleblowers are exposing the truth which it is happening and it is really horrible. host: on your website you have a 38 page report called the transgender of ifn and if people want to read that it is americanprincipalsproject.org. explain the word leviathan. guest: when we first started working on this issue it gets very polarized very quickly. what was very clear to us was that there was a whole industry behind the transgender movement. and we did not think it was fair to brand it as a civil rights movement because it is a back end thing. the civil rights aspect is just to protect the profits of the transgender industry. what the report that we published covers is the whole apparatus for the transgender industry. it covers the media complex and how that is pushed on the american people.

the educational aspect and the surgeries and hormone treatments and how much money is made off of all of these operations and procedures. just to point out one number which will be shocking to a lot of people watching. the transgender industry just off of surgeries alone made $2.2 billion. grandview research is a company that analyzes verious industries and markets and gives recommendations to investors on where to get the prophets. they are projecting the transgender industry in the surgeries alone to go over $5 billion by the year 2030, and that is not the hormones or the beauty blockers for the pharmaceutical -- puberty blockers or the pharmaceutical aspect or the social media aspect or the money made from advertising. it is a huge monstrosity. we wanted to reframe the debate. we think that transgender -- people who identify as

transgender, we actually love them and we want to help empower them. we think they are being exploited. this is something that has happened throughout american history. there have always been new and novel things that have happened. we used to do a lot of lobotomies. i think the person who invented the lobotomy was a nobel peace prize winner and it came out to find that that was batting causing damage. i see a lot of similarities between what is going on here. there is a lot of reckless behavior and endangerment of people. and we want to help everyone and we want everyone to have a peaceful life in this country. we are seeing so many people come to regret their sex change procedures and they have no one to support them. a lot of these insurance plans, they will cover the transgender surgeries and hormone treatments, but then when the person comes out and decides they are not transgender they were misdiagnosed, they will not cover the cost of repairing their bodies and getting them back to where they are.

frankly, it is a bit hypocritical because they call the transition surgeries gender affirming care. it is gender affirming care if you detransition to cover the cares and costs. we want to protect everyone and we want everyone to have a good life in this country and we do not want people being exploited. host: ready to talk to callers? guest: i love the colors. host: mary from california. democrat. caller: why do you hate america? i served 20 years in the marine corps. donald trump is a disgrace to america. i know you do not want to answer anything answer this question. what did you think of january 6? honest answer? one more thing. there are seven ways -- do you know anything about that? guest: i do not. i am not an expert on being gay. i have seven children.

my dad was a member of congress, i ran his campaign and i have been all throughout that building. there are incredible things and historical things and the marble steps that are are grooved because of how many people who walked into the building. that is the people's house. so when i saw the images and video coming out i was scared for my country. i did not like what happened january 6. but frankly, i think if it was intime or b -- antif or blm that they would be burned to the ground. i think it is unfair that we give a pass to the left-wing protesters who caused damage throughout our country and blame everything on the people that showed up and did not burn down that building. they had to have a perimeter established around the white house just that summer. and i just think that it really unfair. to start off a question with why do you hate america? what are you talking about.

that is no way to start a conversation with someone. i talked to 70 people that disagree with me. i love talking to people who disagree with me because i get to learn different things and strengthen my arguments and sharpen things. i think part of the problem is this country -- with this country is starting conversations with asking why you hate the country. i am not really bothered by it that if you really want to fix the country, may be start by assuming that the other person you are talking to is not evil and does not hate the country and has good intentions. host: a republican in south lebanon, ohio. lane. caller: good morning. i would like to ask kerry a question. host: go right ahead. we are listening. caller: i got a question. what would you do about doctors that goes off and kills your wife when she has two kids and

three grandkids and she is not getting to see them grow up? guest: i would turn them into the law, i would be upset about that. and yes, i would let the law and the authorities handle that. caller: i have done that and they have not done nothing. guest: yes. i think that is a really complicated case. but i do not know all of the details. i would be really upset if someone did that to my wife. host: southfield, michigan. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: go right ahead. guest: first of all i want to make this statement, when a woman is carrying a baby in her womb, the baby is both sexes. one sex dominates the other. and i do not feel like any of his business to tell a parent if

her child can have surgery or not to transform him into what he is. it is like when my mom told me when i was a child she knew that i was going to be gay, when i was little. so, i am trying to understand where he is coming from helping parents with their kids when they do not even want to take care of the kids once they are here? so, how can you get behind a person that is against the united states of america? host: we have it. guest: i would say this issue gets brought up all the time. there are limits to what parents can do with their children. we have all types of laws that protect our children. i cannot give my kids alcohol, marijuana, tattoo them illegally. kids cannot consent to sex, so my opinion they cannot consent

to a sex change. it is common sense, and frankly i dispute the entire statement that you are both sexes when you are in your mother's womb. you are determined xx or xy at birth and there are exceptions to the rule. i am talking 99 .9% of people are born male or female and created that way from conception. there is not a debate about this. it is silly that we are having to discuss this because for millennia, i am not talking a few decades. i am talking millennia. the consensus is that men are men and women are women and that is not how they are always going to be and they will change -- they will not take change that. if you are talking about tolerating and allowing people to live and express their personalities i am all about that. people should be free to dress and live how they want. but once you start across a line and impact how people are living their lives i think we have a different conversation to have.

by the way i want to say, a lot of these parents are emotionally blackmailed and taken advantage of. these parents are called in by counselors in a lot of cases and therapists and told that they have to choose between having a living son or a dead daughter. that is emotional blackmail to force them into a for-profit industry making a lot of money off of very vulnerable and confused people. for the last century when we started to diagnose people with mental disorders, gender dysphoria has always been a disorder. in fact, you can go on twitter. you are allowed to call it a mental disorder online on all of these websites that heavily restrict speech. so please, let us not conflate things. there is a biology that exists and there is no question about that. but there are infinite personalities that exist. i am fine with allowing people to have a diverse amount of

personalities and i do not want to force anyone to live a life they do not want to live. when it comes to kids they can wait until 18 to get your reversal and sterilizing procedures that guarantee they will never be able to have children when they get older. host: roy in massachusetts. independent. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good. caller: i wanted to question mr. schilling. you said that out of all of the republican candidates donald trump was the most -- was going to protect the kids the most. tell me how he has a better candidate on that topic than ron desantis was? ron desantis lives and breathes protecting our kids and families. guest: yes. that is a great question. frankly i think ron desantis is the greatest governor that we have had in a very long time. but, when it comes to what you

are going to do at the federal level, ron desantis was unwilling to commit -- that many federal protections for children. he was a good on a few of our issues. but he really struggled with using federal power. and the problem with that, sir, is that you have to be able to use federal power at least to reverse it. what a lot of people do not understand is that all of this transgender nonsense is coming from the federal government. the federal government is forcing insurance companies to power these procedures by laminating this grim nation gender identity. they are funding the procedures and mandates and funding executive orders banning discrimination on it which says if you are in a school where they do not allow the boys who identify as girls to compete in girl sports that you are at risk of you -- of losing title ix funding. that was the inverse of what they were meant to do.

they are trying to lose -- to use a loophole. i am strictly talking from a presidential standpoint. i want to be very clear. the transgender movement, you know, there have been 24 states that assigned laws or bills into law that have banned procedures for minors and we have not gotten to 24 states if ron desantis had not been one of the first governors to do that. what ron desantis did and i will always be eternally grateful for because by signing that law and that bill into law in florida eliminated the left's ability to do what they always do witches is boycott certain states. what the left would do on this transgender issue is that they would target a small state without a lot of competition that has to compete hard for bringing in ncaa tournament and economic opportunities in business as. it would target those dates that pass those laws and drive up momentum. when ron desantis did it in

florida with a state that has disney located there, the left was not able to boycott states. i just want to be very clear. i am not against ron desantis, i think he was a great governor and will continue to be a great governor of florida. at the federal level we have to have people willing to exercise federal power. part of the power why the republican bear -- republican brand is hurt and damaged is that the american people have given us power at the federal level and we make all these promises and we never deliver. i think that is part of the problem. ron desantis, i hope he has a long term in florida andy -- and i hope he comes around on being able to use federal power. now is not the time to be signing federalist 45 and talking about esoteric's. these guys will chew us out and spit us out if we let -- if we let them. host: is your organization is in favor of a federal ban on abortion?

guest: we are in support of a federal limit with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. host: how many weeks? guest: 15. the problem with the issue is there is a political crisis. when dobbs was decided there was no consensus about where the country needed to head two. i will be frank. i spent almost $1 million on polling and testing and seeing where the american people are on a host of cultural issues. where the vast majority of them are are between 15 and 20 weeks with exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother. we have to take into consideration the will of the american people. frankly the criticisms about the 15 week bill, i think donald trump is flirting with a 16 week bill is that it would not save enough lives. when you unpacked that, 60,000 lives saved by a 16 week bill.

i think if we can save 60,000 babies in this country, that is 60,000 lives saved is more than all of the murders in this country. there are 25,000 homicides. but there are 50,000 suicides every year. that would save a lot of lives in this country. i think we can center on that. it does not matter if you are a woman or a man or what race you are. the vast majority of americans support a 15 to 20 week bill on abortion. host: diane in jacksonville, florida. caller: good morning to both of you guys. i am a little concerned with my guest. i am a black republican. it does disturb me when people immediately, when we talk about january 6, and people have nothing to do with january 6. that is the reason it even came up. we do know who did invade our capital.

we also know that if it had been antifa, there would have been a bloodbath. we already know that blacks are people that are progressive would have neighbor made it that far. we already know that. common sense tells us that. yes they burnt down certain areas, but i can assure you that none of them would have been bold enough to go into the capital -- the capitol, because first of all that would've -- the president would not have encouraged us to do so. i am so disappointed to you all supporting donald trump. basically because this man has been convicted of rape, he is on trial, several, 91 in fact convictions. i am a nikki haley supporter. and i know she has said some

things that were controversial as well. but i still support her. because, i believe she would make a great president. that is my choice. and i am very disappointed that we are now supporting someone like trump just because we are basically afraid of him. i will not be voting for him under any conditions. guest: luck i will just say that the irony -- i did not say anything about lack people, i mentioned blm and black lives matter. the irony of those riots was that there were not that many black people there. it was mostly suburban rich white kids who were spoiled and throwing molotov cocktails and bricks through windows. these were anarchist that took advantage of the movement. and i think the window who were most -- and i think the people who are most upset about these rich suburban white kids did is that they co-opted a movement that was important. and i will just say there were believe it or not, black people

that went into the capital on january 6 with a ton of footage and they actually did go into the capital. the country is not as racist as everyone makes it out to be. i think there are a lot of people who are stoking the fires and fanning the flames to make things a lot more divisive in this country. i grew up with lack heroes and people i looked up to. i did not even consider race when i was a kid. i think it is unfortunate that i have to have conversations with -- about race with my kids and i did not have to say that there is nothing wrong with them about the color of their skin and they should not judge their peers and i have to. i have to teach my kids not to be racist because of what is being pushed in the schools and by the broader culture. so i disagree, just to be clear, donald trump was not convicted of rape. i think it was regarding defamation and comments that he

made about someone who falsely accused him of it. host: that was a different court case. the court found him liable for sexual assault. guest: well that is a civil dispute. look, i think that carol has some serious instability problems. she is also on record saying rape is sexy. do not forget that. host: we do not want to go down the path of blaming victims here. the court did find that he was liable for sexual assault. guest: then she went on the talk shows and said that she would give away all of the $80 million that he robbed -- that she robbed from him. this is not how a rape victim acts and it is preposterous. host: darren, colorado springs. democrat. in morning. caller: good morning. um, first of all, sir. it is evident by your rhetoric that you have never taken an

advanced biology class. and that is evidence -- guest: not a doctorate. caller: by your chromosome statement and it goes deeper than that and my question for you, sir, how do you square up your family values, because you are getting yourself in a pretzel. you brought out -- brought up the civil sexual case of a poor and star and their accusations that he raped his -- a porn star and raped his first wife and mention shooting protesters in the legs. i don't think it is funny. you are bending yourself in a pretzel. this man is so far from christian values and christianity that you look like a fool. guest: i just want to say that i appreciate being lectured about my own morality. that is not what this is about. what is it about is a

full-fledged regime in place that is propagandizing and lying to people. you start out by criticizing me for believing that there are xx chromosomes and xy chromosomes in the vast majority people and you are lecturing me about something that was not even questioned a few years ago. i do not know how to respond. i will tell you that i am supporting him. i disregard all of the accusations because of how nasty politics can be. the irony is that everyone knows that politics get super nasty. however, when it comes to donald trump no one thinks that every -- that anyone would ever lie or make a false accusation. this was someone accused of russia collusion which came out as not true. he was accused in a dossier funded by the hillary clinton campaign and used to start a spy racketeering ring around his program that was filed under the

hillary clinton for president campaign. the clintons were one of the nastiest political dynasties of all time. the stuff that they did to barack obama who is now a saint in the democratic party throughout that entire campaign. let's remember how nasty the clintons are and how nasty politics can be. you will have to forgive me for taking extreme and radical accusations thrown out about a guy who is a serious disruptor to the system. republicans and democrats in this town do not really like donald trump because he is a disruptor. people do egregious things throughout society. there are $6 trillion spent in the federal government every single year. that is a lot of money that people get to control. when someone like donald trump gets to come on and get into power, people will hurl a lot of accusations to make sure that she does not disrupt the town. washington is broken and everyone knows it. the guy that just got here

basically yesterday is not at fault. it is a broken and corrupted system. you will have to excuse me for not trusting the political system that we have in the country that has delivered us george bush, bill clinton and yes, even barack obama who grown struck american citizens overseas. i have a lot of questions about how much integrity is in the system. you'll have to excuse me for not really believing any of these fake and false accusations and taking them with a grain of salt. donald trump has kept more pledges to protecting american families while joe biden is doing everything he can to weaponize the federal government against parents like me. they are taking children away from their parents, removing custody because they do not want to give their kids sex change procedures or block their natural puberty, or give them hormones that will sterilize them and cause serial -- serious harm.

early onset osteoporosis. what we are being told from the joe biden administration, i would be more open to him if he was not such a radical on pushing sex change procedures for kids. we have a health and human services secretary that identifies as a woman when he is a man. i am not in clown world. i see it for what it is. this is clown world and it is insane. i will never say that the king has beautiful clothes when we know he is naked. host: the caller did ask about donald trump's christian values. what you think about that? guest: i think people change every single day. the problem with this country is that we put people into boxes. if we do something one day you are forever branded as that. i think that people leave volvo and get new information. host: so you think trump has done things in the past that he is not proud of and now he is

following christian values? guest: yes. i do not -- i cannot judge the man. i do not know him. all i know is that what he has pledged to do as president is what i prefer to have as president compared to what we are getting in joe biden. host: let us talk to andrew next. new jersey. independent line. hello. caller: good morning. mr. schilling. first of all you do not know this man. look at his history as a failed businessman, filing for bankruptcy five times. treating women like tokens when they are people. ok. now, i do not like joe biden either. but, we do not need a president that makes fun and embraces putin, who is a dictator, who embraces whatever his name is,

the dictator from china. guest: do you oppose barack obama because barack obama was making overt gestures to the russians including putin when he was running for president in 2012. i forget the russian prime minister's name. he said to tell vladimir that i will have a lot more flexibility after my reelection. are you going to be critical of barack obama for saying that? when mitt romney made working with the russians and issue in the 2012 election, remember what barack obama said? the 1980's called and they want their foreign policy back. let us not forget that ted kennedy wrote a letter to the soviet union when they were communist and super people and killing millions of their own people. he wrote a letter to them begging them to get involved in the 1980 election to prevent ronald reagan because ronald reagan would disrupt the world order and cause a nuclear holocaust? host: are you still with us?

caller: i am. i would like to know where this idiot is getting his information. host: no personal attacks. let us talk to kenneth in arkansas. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. terry. the lady from florida stole my thunder about antifa going into the capital. those people would've been shot down before they got to those steps. but terry, i feel sorry for you because i have sat here and listen to you when the lady in florida told you about certain things and you want to support a man that said that he grabs women by their private parts and all of this stuff? i am going to sum it up like this. i really feel sorry for your children. for year to teach them and to follow a mob boss. i really feel sorry for your children. host: we will move on to sam in

fredericksburg, virginia. republican. hello. caller: good morning. i am not sure if i would you know say i am a republican because i consider myself a conservative. and that means i mind my business and stay out of other people's business as long as it is not impacting my life or my way of living. i think that your guest did not make much sense of dusted make the point of why republicans are losing elections. he said a lot of things. i think it is because of people like him. i am a conservative. i have my conservative values. but, listening to him, he is all over the place. he is not making any sense to

convince people to buy into conservatism. he is arguing and defending the wrong side, and that is what is pushing some of us off. we are not stupid. we do not put food in our nose. we can think. another thing that i want to say is just leave the gay people alone. if they choose to live their life in whatever way, i am 100% safe -- straight. guest: wended isaiah about -- why did i say something about a people? i have spent 100 -- $1 million. 80 to 90% on pulling americans support banning these procedures for minors. i think that rather than telling me that i need to learn more, we just need to protect kids.

that is all i care about. i have a ton of children. i have my seventh kid coming this week. they are all happy. they love their lives and me. but, i will just say, i live in fear of people co-opting my children and brainwashing them and can suit -- and confusing them and turning them against my country. we are indoctrinating a whole generation of kids right now to think that the country was evil, that their country was founded not in 1776 with the declaration of independence but in 1619 when the first slaves came here, who decided that. that is a new thing. i am happy. i think i am doing the right things to protect kids and families. i mean, i am talking about leaving families alone and leaving children alone. i think we should leave trans kids alone and i also want to clarify because i said something that is fake and falls. there are no such things as transgender children.

there are boys and girls and that is it. if we are going to let them go down the world where they are sterilizing them and mutilating them, there were thousands of kids in the past five years that got double mastectomies. we need to stop that. host: rob in minnesota. democrat. caller: good morning. mike collins -- my comment is that he is higher than a chinese spy balloon. thank you. host: mississippi. republican. that morning. caller: good morning. mr. schilling i want to congratulate you because i think you make more sense than anybody that they have ever had on the show. i want to congratulate washington journal for letting you talk as long as they have. because usually that is not the way it is. and i want to scold you for interrupting and always taking up for make sure a nasty message

gets across to all america about donald j. trump. 99% of them -- 99% of the thing set on the shore -- on the show as a bald faced lie about donald trump. host: i'm sorry you believe that. levi. st. louis, into sort -- missouri, independent. caller: a short comment on something that i have heard repeated a couple of times. a little bit of a fact-check that annoys me. donald trump was not found -- not convicted of rape. he was convicted of sexual assault. the jury specifically deliberated on rape and stop short of committing him to that offense. he is polarizing so whenever anybody discusses him it becomes charge. that is the only comment that i had is that he was not convicted of rape. host: i think we had addressed

that. duane, north charleston south carolina. democrat. caller: regardless, it is a bad situation for him. people are just going off the cliff with him. it does not matter. terry, your problem is you are having too many children. you are embarrassing yourself, it is not making any sense. i would just advise to you, look at the future and see what happens in november. forget that red wraith. guest: i have kids because i love kids and because i love my wife. we are in love with our family and we love each one of these are the guys and they have changed our lives in measurable ways. shame on you for saying i have too many children. i do not talk about you true -- your children and i do not know you. that is rude.

some of these things at these callers are saying is like, they are so rude. it is fine you can say it. you have a right to. host: denver. independent line. raymond. good morning. caller: good morning. terry i want to bless you, your family and your kids. i am a 66-year-old man who grew up in the south and i can tell you that if you were to visit mississippi and go to the delta and visit some of these southern states and the small towns there are a lot of hungry kids that do not know where their next meal is coming from. i think there are more hungry kids in america than there are people wanting to change their sex. now, as far as donald trump and joe biden, i am afraid joe biden is too old, and i am afraid that donald trump is unpredictable. but i have been in the science and what i fear the most, and

what we should all be concerned about as americans, who is going to be the next president to drop a nuclear weapon? once that happens it is the end of everything. we should be concerned about how we treat one another and who is going to be the first person to decide whether or not a nuclear weapon is used. so, god bless you and your family. and i hope that your family is fed well. guest: they are. i am a great chef. you can save a lot of money by just cooking at home. i do sympathize with these families that are struggling to put food on the table. i will say that i have looked at the social data, it is incredibly boring because of how predictable it is. this is a problem that is a man problem. it is not just a man problem. men in this country are failing their families and children and

are abandoning their wives and spouses and children. the idea that there are hungry children with fathers in the home that did not abandon them is a rare thing. if the father sticks around and has a good family life and takes care of his kids they will be better off and have had higher education and better careers and better families themselves. and so part of what i am doing is we are more geared towards fathers at my organization and you have moms for liberty who focus on empowering moms. we try to get fathers more engaged in their family life and have a bigger role with their families and to stop shirking responsibilities. it is embarrassing to me as a man when i think about how me millions of fathers have abandoned even more millions of children. every time a father leaves the home there is a repairable damage done to these children. it is a cyclical thing that

spirals out of control if you do not stop it. host: one more call in wayne in new hampshire. republic. caller: thank you for being on today. day after day i listen to c-span and it seems like all icr democrats -- i see are democrats who trash talk about donald trump. the biggest issue facing the american people today is joe biden's neglect when he opened up the borders. the american people are going to pay a high price for this. it is already happening now in major cities across the country. and joe biden did that. not donald trump, joe biden. president trump wants a secure america and security for the american people. joe biden does not care or he would not have open those borders. and i do not hear too many democrat callers talking about

any of this either. once again, thank you for coming on c-span today. it has been a long time coming. guest: thank you so much and i appreciate that. one thing that i've learned, i started working closely with former attorney general ken cuccinelli and i had a conversation about all the crime going on and he pointed something out. he said that the punishment of the crime is not what deters crime. the biggest thing that deters crime is if someone perceives that they will get caught or not. it is the enforcement of crimes and our laws that will determine if more crimes are committed. ultimately, the reason why border crossings and illegal immigration was down so much under the trump administration was because people understood that there was a much higher likelihood of them getting caught and having the law enforced against them then in the current administration. they know that they will get away scott free. host: terry schilling, president

of the america principals project. you can find more about this at americanpricples project.org. we will continue our black history month ries with khalil gibran mammad joining us to discuss the teaching about race and racism in american higher education. first, open for them. the numbers are on your screen, republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independent, 202-748-8002. stay with us. ♪ >> today, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly roundup of c-span's campaign coverage discovering a one-stop shop to discover what candidates are saying to voters. along with force as first-hand accounts for political

reporters, and raising data and campaign ads. watch the 2024 campaign trail today at 7:00 eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org or download as a podcast on c-span now, the free mobile app or where ever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> sunday on q&a, patty davis shares "dear mom and dad" a memoir written to her late parents. she talks about being in the spotlight after her father entered politics in the 1960's, her complicated relationship with her mother and her views on the reagan administration's handling of the aids epidemic. >> there are people who still think that my father did not care about gay people or he was homophobic which was not true. so i wanted to bring in some

other aspects of it in terms of people in his administrative addition that should ministration who were homophobic and who did not want him to address the aids issue and to successfully for a while cap things from him because one of my father's flaws and we all have flaws was that he delegated things to other people and believed what they told him. so, when rock hudson died, nobody could keep from him the severity of aids. you know, his friend just died from it. and that was the turning point. >> patty davis with her book " dear mom and dad," sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can listen to that end all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this, it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work and where

citizens are truly informed, a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back with open forum taking your calls for about 25 minutes on anything on your mind regarding public policy and politics. here is some news for you from today. nbc news is reporting that biden has announced more than 500 sanctions on russia after alexei navalny's death targeting those connected to opposition leader alexei navalny's -- excuse me -- imprisonment as well as russia's

financial sector, defense industrial base and procurement networks. also senate majority leader chuck schumer is in ukraine to meet president zelenskyy as usaid hangs in the about -- hangs in the balance. this will be the highest level congressional leaders since then bigger grub the house nancy pelosi visited ukraine shortly after the russian invasion. let us go to the calls. gary in ashland, kentucky. republican. good morning. caller: i would like to talk about your programming, c-span. host: sure. caller: i have noticed that you guys have done a 360. i mean, you do not let the people who are representing him are not given a fair chance on the program. i mean today, for example you asserted yourself into conversations when he was trying

to give answers. therefore, you are not getting a clear picture. and i have done a little bit of research on some of your monitors. i know that you are democrats, but you should still try to be a little bit more fair with your guest selections and also i have noticed a lot of democratic calls when republican representatives are on here. and you say you take the phone calls as they come, but sometimes i find that hard to believe. that is all i have got. thank you. host: another republican in minneapolis, minnesota. michael. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i am doing ok. caller: i just wanted to talk a little bit about about how these chinese people are coming into the southern court order. i do not know if you are -- if you know about that at all. they are all coming in and

essentially, it is not being talked about. they are also buying all of this land by militarized zones. that is something that definitely needs to be discussed. it has not been talked about by any media outlet. so i think it is something not very good. host: i appreciate the suggestion. we will definitely note that. also regarding china, this is the front page of "the washington post" and "the new york times." leak exposes chinese -- chinese happening shows how beijing foments hacking. "a trove of leaked shows that beijing's intelligence and military groups are attempting large-scale since -- systematic cyber and against foreign governments, companies and infrastructure with hackers of one company claiming to be able to target users of microsoft, apple, and google."

denise in cheney, washington. democrat. good morning. caller: i would like to start out by saying thank you, c-span and to yourself for conducting this forum where people get to speak their minds, openly. i appreciate your ability to keep it balanced as much as possible. and it is a wonderful way for people to understand each other, which we need more of in this world, not less of. and, i am a 68-year-old person who was raised with respect for my elders, treat people as you want to be treated and let people live and let live. their lives presuming -- pursuing their freedom.

host: john in oakley, california. democrats. good morning. caller: go right -- good morning. i am calling. there was a caller earlier said that joe biden opened the borders and that there was not as much trouble at the borders while trump was president. and i just wanted to say that that was a lie. and the guy should read a newspaper once in a while. that is all. host: what are you seeing at the border and what do you think is going on? do you think it is just as bad? as during the trump administration? because there are more people crossing now. caller: there are more people crossing now because they see more of an opportunity than they did with trump. and not to mention these other

countries, the gangs are in control of the country, not a government. and people are getting killed. so they are leaving and trying to come here so they do not die. and something needs to be done. but closing off the border is not going to do it. manning the border, may be bringing the marines or whatever you have to do until the facilities can be built to accommodate. host: alright. trent in monro, louisiana. good morning. caller: i had a jaw-dropping experience reading "the atlantic monthly" and they talked about a book from stanford university press which is not a wingnut press called "russian nuclear orthodoxy" written by an israeli

professor and was blurred by gail and john hopkins. the thesis of the whole book was that russia is thirds of the way to becoming a eastern orthodox theocracy. if the producer would let you put the book cover on their, it has an eastern orthodox cross transposed against a nuclear missile. it is a beautiful cover, fascinating. and i think this is one of the reasons why so many of us do not trust and are so except with the media. it is not that you guys lie to us what you do not tell us things that are going on that are hugely important. because, a lot of what from is about -- trump is about once you get past the populism and christian nationalism is that there is a young pat -- theocratic impulse that has

always been in the united states. and when the church begins to feel like there is a demonic pall over the nation and culture, then the impulse to try and find that satanic, demonic derangement rises and the people even through imperfect vessels like donald trump. as a producer going to let you put the cover? host: we do not have access to it right now. did you read the book? or did you cnx art? caller: i am reading it like a devotional. this jewish professor grew up in russia and he just has documentation. host: we have got that. patrick in alabama, republican. caller: good morning. host: how do you say the name of the city? caller: it is a little indian

country town. host:. a. go ahead. caller: i appreciate the guy that had on -- that you had on. terry. he has old-fashioned to -- old-fashioned mayor durkan values, family values and common sense. january 6 is a repeated thing. i know you have access to the tapes. they do not show those congressman including clay higgins that has documented proof that over 200 fpa i agents -- fbi agent's were instigating plus the police chief that day has recordings and data that nancy pelosi got called 11 times. i have one more statement and then i will listen. as far as the callers that call maga voters stupid and christians they need to examine their own iq.

we know how to identify a woman and our men do not take maternity leave from work. and they do not have to take pregnancy tests. it is common sense on who is stupid. one thing i would like to ask you to bring on his to do a show on where the fbi buried biden's diary. she said that mentally scarred her for life when joe biden forced his own daughter to get naked and take showers with him. host: you know, i looked into that and i found that -- all of the fact checkers was saying that was not true and was invented. that the diary they are talking about was not miss. biden's. have you looked into that? caller: yes. i will tell you where i got my information and they are good sources. host: sure. caller: one of them is bill

o'reilly and he has facts. the other one is tucker carlson. it is a perfect example. here is a perfect example. did they not prove that the fbi buried hunter biden's laptop in the election season and 51 intelligence agents lied about it? here is a point i would like to make and then i will get off here. for eight years now they have blasted president trump on every single thing that they could dig up. two women 30 years ago, 1860 law, how many things has the media is turning people into thinking they hate this man even though they know nothing about him. host: i wanted to ask you about the alabama supreme court decision about ivf?

caller: i supported. -- support it. anybody with common sense, good morals and family values, if the bible supports it, you will supported. host: henry in chicago. henry, are you there? go right ahead. caller: who is henry? host: go ahead. caller: in the upcoming election, the polls say that donald trump is losing the african-american vote. i was just wondering, he will probably select tim scott as his vice president. i am wondering if there is some way that you can get ahead of

condoleezza rice on your show so she can be reminded she was one of those individuals that supported going into iraq. she was thinking there would be a muslim cloud if we don't invade iraq. i would like to nation to know everything about condoleezza rice. he might try to get her, too. i have no idea. she might be willing. host: we would be honored to have the former ambassador on the program. caller: thank you for taking my call. you had a fellow on in the previous segment talking about obama and how he had made some off of the heart my comments to the prime minister of russia about once i win the election i

will have more leverage. who was that? host: that was terry schilling from american principles project. caller: i appreciate you having him on. he was throwing out good facts. you had a guy call who said where you get your facts from and insulted him. that is the kind of stuff too many people, we have a media that writes the narrative. they decided the good people are. he never heard that before. those are things that happened. i would like to make a couple of points. i live in fairfax county, virginia and i am a proponent of school choice. i would like to see us -- the money we spent on taxes should not follow the system, it should follow the students.

kind of like how health care does you can choose different doctors. we send our kids to private school. we have on our school board, the head of the school board is a guy come i believe he may be a home sexual guy -- a homosexual guy. he is sworn in on a stack of books they read about it that they want to put in the library that you cannot read because they're so obscene. this guy does not have any kids. he is the head of the school board in our county and he gets money from outside the district to come in and be the head of the school board in fairfax county. we send our kids to private school. it could be insane to send your kids into a system like that.

donald trump is the talk of the day every time on this show. we had another lady who was talking about how donald trump was found guilty of raping e. jean carroll. he was not found guilty. he was found guilty of -- host: he was found liable of sexual assault first and then he went to court for disbanding her and was found level. caller: it was a civil case, right? host: i believe so. caller: people say he was found guilty by injury jury, no he was not. it would have to be an impartial jury. he was found guilty by an activist judge and an activist district attorney who ran on a camp in to attack donald trump. the former soviet union -- show

me the man and i will show you the crime. when you have -- we should start investigating crimes instead of people. that is what you do when you have a health system. when you have any unhealthy system you insert -- investigate people instead of crimes. we are seeing this play out right now. i appreciate you taking my call. school choice, i hope your listeners can get on board with that. host: tony in maryland, independent line. tony? caller: good morning to all americans listening. as an independent, we are too distracted by what everyone wants. donald trump was our president, my president as well as obama and now currently bided.

-- biden. whatever the results of the next election, it would be in our interest to get behind that individual. my grandkids and their kids are not going to have a future in this kids -- in this country. some of the folks from certain communities are talking about reparations. this country is so broke to be able to consider that. the border, where people try to get here? -- why are people trying to get here? it is the greatest country in her lifetime and they're not risking their life for nothing. if we don't get behind what is in the best interest of all of us -- that is my comment. it may not resonate with a lot of people, but i have been around a little bit and i have no ax to grind.

host: let's talk to frank in greensburg. caller: i am understanding that the chinese bought more property from the u.s. when donald trump was president. the governor of texas and the governor of florida sent busloads of people up to new york city and swamped them, not even letting them know they were coming and just made a big problem for new york city which was uncalled for. the guy who was on here before who talk about children but he likes assault rifles that killed more children than anybody else. that is all i have to say.

host: another frank, this time in minneapolis, minnesota. caller: how's it going? host: good. caller: i want to make two points. number one is i am trying to fear out where the canceled culture thing started from. i feel like the left is pushing cancel culture and it is plaguing our society. it would be interesting if you could talk about that. i want to clear the air. there is a lot of fake news. i saw a video of hunter biden smoking crack. host: tony in detroit, michigan. caller: good morning. that color talking about hunter biden -- caller talking about hunter biden like he's the only person in the world with any

issue. i wanted to talk about this russia thing with the republican house of representatives. how insulting. ukraine is a sovereign nation and a vladimir putin a murderous dictator. america is talking about the border here wherein this man is actually trying to take a country. for the so-called americans were supposed to be, for them to side with vladimir putin after what he did to alexei navalny is preposterous. i don't know how you can sit there with a straight face after all the insults just hurled at

you, c-span. c-span is an open forum. everyone call this -- everyone of all politics calls this show. there are people who don't like reality anymore. unless you have a bunch of money , it doesn't matter. donald trump is by far the worst president in the history of america. this is a little question for america. which one is worse, and man who is up in age who maybe lost a step or two but knows politics? or a thug dictator in weight -- in wait?

donald trump don't care about you all. host: let's talk to shirley in fort myers, florida. caller: i wanted to mention this thing about open borders that the conservative party keeps pushing. our borders are not open. our borders are not manned. they got it. we need judges, administrators to help process these people through. we need to streamline our immigration process. we need to make it easier for people to come to america. we are the greatest nation of the world and we needed these immigrants. -- we need these immigrants. host: jeffrey in oxnard, california. democrat. caller: i am here to let people

know to wake up and smell the coffee. president biden will be your president. trump is not going to go anywhere near the white house. host: why do you think that? caller: the country is leaning towards biden based on all of these -- all of this information i'm hearing from these people today. the news with russia and china and all of these news articles. the country is against donald trump. you might have been a percent of americans who call themselves patriots support trump. i don't see it happening for donald trump becoming president. he is too controversial. he is chaos. these people want to chaos in their left so be it.

-- in their life, so be it. we want to live, we want to eat, we want to survive. we want to be part of the human race. that is the fact. host: let's get one more caller in. matthew, republican. caller: it is incredible to be on c-span. i have been wanting to call in for years and it is great to be talking with you. you had a number of callers on here, tony said something i wanted to talk about. in response to the call saying which candidate is worse, i would not want either of them. as a republican, i call myself a recovering trump addict. when he was announced

originally, i was on his campaign. i was a supporter but never a loyalist. i think he did good things, it seems he started to embody these ideas of champions. it seems more so than not every chance he got to choose a country or himself, he was choosing himself. that culminated on anyway first -- on january 6. i don't think he planned it, but he had a choice. quit his supporters were out there beating down the bastion of democracy, he had a choice. he could either choose to condemn it or he could choose to promoted and he chose to promoted. -- choose to promote it and he chose to promote it. he said i know we had an election that was stolen from us

but you have to go home now. the broadcast lynn to a fire. president biden was called a forgetful man. when your own justice department is saying that, it is telling. i am gen z. i am growing up in this country, i will one day carry the torch for this country. more so than not, it seems like every day the debt is getting higher, our politicians don't want to talk with one another. it seems right now as citizenry we are try to fight on two different teams when in reality we are fighting on the american team. if i cut open my hand, i am bleeding red. the only thing we disagree on is what place we should have, to use a football metaphor. host: have you thought about who you would vote for in november if it came to biden versus trump?

caller: i am trying to culminate on who i would vote for. i don't think either one affirms my vote. i might be voting third party. we will see. as the end of the day, i feel both candidates cannot earn my vote. i don't think i will ever vote for president biden. it is not agree with things i agree with. i am a conservative republican. when it comes to that, i could never see myself voting for biden. even though trump agrees on a lot of things i agree on, the man himself is dangerous and i don't know if i could bring myself to vote for him. he would have to go do a lot of soul-searching -- before i could put my vote on the land for him. host: got it. that is our last call for open forum. a programming note, today federal and state lawmakers speak at the conservative

political action conference known as cpact 10:00 a.m.. we will hear from attorney general ken paxton and commerce minden bishop, live coverage from national harbor in maryland on c-span comes he's been now, and all c-span.org. at 1:10 p.m., we will hear from governor kristi noem and house judiciary committee chair jim jordan. that is live coverage here on c-span and c-span.org. coming up next on "washington journal," we will talk to khalil gibranuhammad, a professor at harvard's kennedy school touring us to talk about teaching race and racism in america's higher education. we will be right back -- right back. ,

>> watch coverage of the 2024 campaign -- beginning with a simulcast of coverage hearing from local political analysts, experts, and reporters. we will bring your primary results as they come in. candidate speeches, and we will get your reaction on the social media and by taking your call. watch live coverage of south carolina's gop presidential primary saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span come c-span now, or online at c-span.org/campaign2024. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> sunday on q&a, patti davis shares her book "dear mom and dad" a memoir written to her parents.

she talks about big eyed spotlight after her father entered politics, or complicated relationship with her mother, interviews on the reagan administration's handling of the aids epidemic. >> there are people who still think my father did not care about gay people or that he was homophobic, which was not true. i wanted to bring in some other aspects in terms of people and his administration who were homophobic and did not want him to address the aids issue and successfully for kept things from him. one of my father's flaws was that he delegated things to other people and believed what they told him. when rod hudson died, nobody could keep from him the severity of its. his friend just died from it. that was the turning point. >> patty davis with her book,

"dear mom and dad" on c-span's q&a. you cousin to all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this, it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work. when citizens are truly informed, our republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capitol, to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." i am joined by khalil gibran muhammad, a professor of

history, race, and public policy at harvard's kennedy school. guest: thank you for having me. host: he wrote an opinion piece with this headline "why i am going to keep teaching the truth about racism in america." why did you write that and why now? guest: as a harvard professor, i was responding to the national outcries -- national outcry emerging in the wake of the this number for congressional testimony that people like me who teach about race and racism, who teach nascent ashley nation -- who teach the nation's history along with my colleagues were responsible for at in america and responsible for dividing the country. indeed, we were being called reverse racists or hateful people. i felt i had a responsibility to

defend myself and my colleagues. caller: -- host: you mentioned the response of harvard university and the public to that congressional testimony of harvard's former president, claudine gay. can you talk about what was happening around that time and your reaction? guest: on is a refit, three university presidents -- on december 5, three university presidents from harvard, penn state, and m.i.t. were invited to congress to speak on the problem of anti-semitism on their campuses. the conversation was largely about the degree to which they were providing enough protection to jewish students. most people by now know there was a lot of criticism of the various presidents' testimonies, including claudine gay, the

first black president of harvard, for saying students would not be punished if they called for the genocide of jews. i have strong opinions that she in fact said what she needed to say which is that she morally condemned any calls for genocide , which have not happened at harvard and there is evidence it happened at any university. there are debates about how to trigger the things students have been saying. in claudine gay's case, she followed the policy at harvard university which is that you can say things that are hateful without punishment if they are not directed at individuals. that policy as of today remains true, despite the criticisms. that was the main coverage with the truth is that -- the main coverage but the truth is that most of the committee focused on

di and equity and a small number of conservatives andres campuses -- conservatives on various campuses blaming universities for a liberal takeover of american higher education and people focused on racial equity as a threat to the nation. this is what took purse -- took place on december 5. host: i want to play you a segment from virginia foxx and have you respond to it, the chair of the education workforce committee. she opened that congressional hearing signaling out one of your courses as an example of a class that fosters anti-semitic abuse. [video clip] rep. foxx: it is clear that anti-semitism and the universities are ideas that cannot be cleaved from one another. a prime example is at harvard

where classes are taught such as dp385, race and racism in the making of the united states. the harvard global health institute hosts seminars such as "scientific racism and antiracism." even the harvard event is school has a page devoted to "social and racial justice." harvard also matched with a deadly was ground zero for anti-semitism following october 7 and is the single least tolerant school in the nation according to the foundation for individual rights and expressions' 2024 college free-speech rankings. you pen -- university of pennsylvania is right behind them. m.i.t. is in the middle of the

pack. what i am describing is a grave danger inherent in assenting to race-based ideology of the radical left. senator schumer has not put the pieces together but the picture is too clear now to american jews. and size and it is him and hate are among the -- an estimate is in and hate are among the poisoned fruit of your -- anti-semitism and hate are among the poisoned fruit of your institutions. host: i will give you a chance to respond. caller: virginia foxx -- guest: virginia foxx has no idea what happens in my classroom and my spaces on campus where racism is discussed. let me start with a fact. i would hope anyone watching this conversation would not take issue with defining american history as connected to susan at racism by virtue of 350 years of

either slavery or state sanctioned segregation. that is 350 years of american history to cover. i am an historian. -- duty expect to understand the history of the soviet union? only in america kanas encumbers person question whether or not teaching the history of this country should be done and secondly, to blame that history on a problem of anti-semitism which emanates from white ring's premises him -- right-wing western premises -- white supremacy. that was back covers of use, not

the students on my campus. it is a preposterous charge. i will add that in the class c -- she disparages as being a race-based class on ideology responsible for institutionalizing anti-semitism and hate, i teach about the history of anti-semitism. part of that is discrimination jews faced in the usa -- in the united states. part of that is how jim crow laws inspired nazi germany to inspire the same laws because america had already innovated in this space. host: if you would like to join the conversation and ask a question, you can do so. if you are at eastern or central time zones, you can call us on 202-748-8000. you are in the pacific or mountain time zones, it is 202-748-8001.

what are you hearing from black faculty members at harvard about any backlash or about how they are feeling about what we teach? caller: -- guest: many of my colleagues have feared attack or reprisals. i am tenured so there is little likelihood that someone will come and tell me i cannot teach anymore but that is not the case for everyone. they feel that tens of thousands of other educators who have faced the same political attacks , i should say there are two dozen states in this country that have criminalized the teaching of racism or gender or sexuality. even raising the possibility students will learn about the women's suffrage movement or is

an exception to great principles which is not actually true. we have a war on truth. education is a war on democracy. my colleagues who watched this unfold across the country and thousands of book bands probably imagine this would not come to their campus, the oldest prestigious university, but that is not the case. now they have shown up at harvard. i wrote to essentially say this has got to stop, people have to stand up. people have to find courage. this is a threat to our democracy. host: how would you respond to those who say you are

essentially teaching young people to feel bad and feel guilty about being white? guest: let me answer this question by way of an example. the u.s. supported and helped to build the use holocaust museum in 1991. that is when it opened. there in washington, d.c. if you have been to the holocaust museum like i have, it is a horrifying tale of man's and humanity to man -- inhumanity to man. the body parts that were recycled by jewish people who are cremated or who hair was shaped to become a materials in some manufacturing process for german factories down the road is a very disturbing tale of one of the greatest crimes against humanity in the 20th century. an entire museum dedicated to this story.

not because children are not expected to visit this museum, it exists because children are expected to learn from the past so we can become a better world, we can become better global citizens and we can assure something like this never happens again. business onion museum -- the smithsonian museum opened an african-american museum after a struggle of -- saying we need to tell our story. as our story that gave birth to the 14th amendment that gives citizen rights -- citizenship rights to everyone in this country. confederate monuments were being built all across the country to tell another lie, the story of the confederacy was not the story of protecting slavery and every secession bill passed by seven secessionists stated, it

became a mythos of the lost cause of people who have been subjected to try ago federal government. in this country we built a bunch of monuments to confederates who were traitors. we put those statutes in statutory hall. there are more confederate monuments in the capital than the black people who helped make this democracy what it is today. the last example i will say to people concerned about children feeling bad, if you read florida's socialist others standards -- social studies standards which made news because in those standards it talks about slavery having benefits to african-americans. when talking about the violence black people faced, it also suggested it is related to violence committed by african-americans. you will see every elaborate discussion of the holocaust.

-- a very elaborate discussion of the holocaust and the need to teach the holocaust. let me close by saying in the united states, we are more comfortable teaching the terrible things other people have done to other people and not comfortable with learning from our own history of slavery and segregation and genocide against indigenous populations. this is unacceptable. it has got to stop. we cannot build a functioning democracy if we cannot be honest about our history. host: let's talk to callers. daniel in georgia, good morning. caller: i have a little northwest of atlanta by 30 minutes or so but i grew up in macon, georgia. in the public school system, a majority of the students were black. there was certainly an element

of racism among white students. i have seen things change for the better, i have seen an african-american president. let's teach history as it happened and let's focus on how we have learned from it and how we have improved from it so we can get rid of this chris entirely in this country -- this racism entirely in this country. i have seen it get better in the deep south. i have seen these generations of people die off and it is improving. from this circle, i don't see any racist people. my favorite professor at university of georgia taught african-american studies with a focus on the civil war movement. get shifted -- it should my mentality on things. let's focus on the things that happened that were bad and then focus on what happened bad.

speaking of you ga -- uga, a student was murdered yesterday on campus. my neighbors growing up, it is their daughter. for callers calling in, if you have a smoke detector going off in the background, i cannot pay attention to what you say. if you cannot change her smoke alarm or get a letter or by a letter -- or by a ladder -- host: condolences to your friends' daughter. guest: i appreciate the caller endorsing what i say. there is no curriculum in this country that is not celebrated the gains and the progress that has been made. the problem is the erasure of the problem that necessitated progress in the first place. you cannot teach a story of progress if you cannot actually show what people are overcoming.

we already receive the details of what the problem was and only emphasizing the progress. i will say to everyone, one of the things you learned in classes that make sense of race and racism which is a very complicated thing is that bigotry and discrimination, the kinds of things we see when people say racist things or they mistreat people's just the tip of the iceberg. that is to say that slavery was not about hatred. people had intimate relationships with enslaved people. lots of like women as nurse maids feeding children who suckled at their breast. this has nothing to do with interpersonal relationships. the problem is equality. the problem is black it will be put in a position to have the exact same rights as white people and that has always been

a problem and it remains a problem. the problem is also that we continue to live with the legacy effect, redlining which has created a housing ownership gap in this country that is basically permanent. i am not saying it cannot be solved with cannot be solved simply by try to celebrate our history without dealing with these problems still with us. host: nathaniel in new jersey, good morning. caller: how are you doing? thank you so much for carrying this mental of teaching proper history in america. i think people raise facts about racism in this country, it is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable. for centuries and centuries, minorities had to deal with learning history, learning about race from a white perspective. we were not comfortable.

we are starting to tell the true history of america from a lens of someone that is -- isn't white. this is necessary until b could truly move forward in this country. the g.i. bill, i am from northern new jersey. a lot of the wealth built from white people in this area was built off of their ancestors getting the g.i. bill. like ancestors like my father never got the g.i. bill do to being african-american and wealth was taken from her family due to these racist laws. you're doing a great job. i don't think it is your job to make anyone feel comfortable. you're doing a great job teaching the actual truth of the strippers mind is country -- of teaching the truth of racism in

this country. thank you for all of the work that you do. guest: i appreciate the call. the two points are important. the question of comfort ability -- comfortability. i understand why people are concerned about a child being exposed to difficult history. the good news is that educators have age-appropriate ways of engaging this material. i have three children, my children grew up in a school district that has a significant population of jewish americans. in this case, they have been learning about. aspect about what happened to jews around the world since they were in middle school which around fifth-grade students are

taught about slavery. trust our educators because we have a political problem with coming to terms with this history. it is not that the educators cannot do their jobs, we don't want them to do their jobs. that is where we have entered into a new phase with decriminalization of being able to teach, to read, to write, to talk about these issues. it is very frightening. on the second point about the g.i. bill, what a wonderful illustration in the way we misunderstand harris is actually is -- misunderstand how racism is. a lot of white americans today have assets for what we call wealth liabilities from the homestead act which was a massive land giveaway by the federal government in hopes of helping to settle the west. there are estimates a quarter of white americans today can trace

their assets to the federal government giving them free land. the federal government land grant colleges for those americans to get education. none of this was available to black people after slavery. the period of the federal government's commitment to building access to homeownership which occurred during the great depression. a lot of people know this but let me repeat. this was a policy that created america's middle-class in in the 20th century under roosevelt. black people were by and large excluded from it through systemic redlining which was not big it's engaging this book actual federal officials working with private banks to say we will keep like people out of white neighborhoods. finally to the point about the g.i. bill which rewarded those who gave sacrifices in world war ii to defeat fascism in the world and yet black people by and large were not able to get access to the benefits of their military service through

homebuying programs, small business loans or education. some did participate but they did not participate concert with their actual numbers in the publishing. host: let's talk to marlon next in oregon. caller: thank you for taking my call. i believe all of this hate started from the beginning of time with cain and abel and is going to continue. i can see the fruits of your teachings, your colleagues -- i don't know you get or heard enough about what you are teaching, but we see the fruits of the children coming up on the streets with flags standing up for palestine and wanting to chase the jews from the river to the sea. we are taking god out of our schools when harvard was started

by christians, if i'm not mistaken and some of these prestigious schools. we are losing god out of society and by taking down the statues of slaveowners and what is happening in their time, we are erasing our history for our children to see today for a learning process to not go back to that era, time those people did wrong. the race card from our students -- to erase god from our students, we are going to have -- we are not good you have anything but hate for each other. guest: a couple of things. first of all, we don't live in a theocracy. americans may vote for a theocracy, that is possible. we would have to change the

constitution. the constitution is predicated on a fundamental separation of church and state. the constitution contrary to the caller's speculation rejected the idea that institutions founded as christian institutions, such as is true for harvard university founded by calvinists, eventually moved away from a religious dominated institution as is true for most religious foundation -- religious founded institutions as recognition of multiplicity. a caller who may want a theocracy where we define one religion as the basis for dissipation in society would be more mccann to what is happening in middle eastern countries. that is not the america founding fathers built. i cannot solve that problem but i would encourage the caller to go back to the constitution to recognize we don't have

institutions predicated on god were christian belief fundamental to the way we govern ourselves. i would remind the caller that there are plenty of private sector schools where parents can opt into a parochial education for their children. we do not have the right under the constitution to impose beliefs about god in our public school systems. that is a good thing. the situation in the middle east between israel and palestine is fundamentally a god story. it is a story about two different understandings about the role of religion and shipping the destiny of those people. -- shaping the destiny of those people. about my teaching at the seeds of whatever the caller is witnessing, my students when they opt in to support palestine have every right to. last i checked, we live in a world where illiberal democracy supports the beliefs of people who may have conflicting views of the world.

that is what is happening. i believe gazans and palestinian people have a right to not be bound or live under occupation. they have got to work this out. the status quo is unacceptable. that is not what i teach because that is not the subject in my class but i am happy to show my perspective on this. host: steve in anaheim, california. caller: does your class teach about colonialism or are you only focused on racism in the united states? guest: good question. it is not a class with a lot of international dimensions. if by this committee. sways in which european countries and some asian countries colonized what today we call the global south, some of that comes up, yes. but it is a class permit focused on the united states -- primary

focused on the united states. the united states was a set of british colonies, america was oppressed and this is why the founding fathers resorted to violence to the british themselves from the oppression of great britain. our own story of becoming the united states is a story of british colonization of this place that was first occupied by indigenous people. host: canton, ohio. history -- destry, good morning. are you there? karen in alabaster, alabama. caller: please don't cut me off because he had the last few times. it is wrong for another human being to another human. everybody believes that.

maybe not everybody but now i think they do. i wanted to ask you on the class you teach, you discuss the millions of white americans who were killed defending and trying to free slavery or stop slavery? there was a white president assassinated trying to stop slavery. in 1964, a white president who passed the civil rights act and his colleague said if you pass this you will never be elected again and he said i don't care. please do focus on the fact that i'm calling from alabama because i was not born and raised here, my dad retired here. i understand the jim crow laws, it was all wrong. a lot of that does not exist anymore or it is going away. i want to know if you discuss how does this got here in the first place, they were sold by african leaders to europeans.

that is how they got here in the first place. people talk about systematic racism. if it were such a horrible country, how did we elect a black president? how do we have a supreme court justice, how is he where he is? how did you become a tenured professor at harvard? i am sure you work hard but here is never stopped you. we are not as bad a country as people say we are. the u.s. and that you can't really first countries to end slavery -- the u.k. were the first countries to end slavery. there are jewish students at harvard saying they are being threatened and they are afraid. if there is no address, to some in harvard, why are they afraid -- no antisemitism in harvard, why are they afraid? guest: i did not say there was no antisemitism at harvard, i

just said i am not responsible for it. the things you mention about why people dying in the civil war, president lincoln and president johnson, all true. i know you did not say this explicitly although the structure of your response suggests i would somehow be hiding such things. my job is not to hide anything. my job is to tell the story as it happens -- as it happened. for all the ways in restorative skepticism about elite institutions like harvard in this country and the weakness of our education system for everyone, i don't get to do what i do by hiding things or distorting things. part of the point why would the essay and why we are having ts conversation today is the problem is in the other direction. every child in america brings about abraham lincoln.

every child learns about lyndon johnson. every child learns about the civil war and for 750,000 estimated people who died. trust me, there is not a chapter in america who is not learning those stories -- a child in america not learning those stories. but they don't learn is that slavery was about profit and slavery did introduce ways of keeping people in bondage that had not existed in the world, no matter the role of african elite of selling people into slavery. the truth is that when black people came here, we invented ways to be treated as property that did not exist in the world. we were not for second country to abolish slavery, we were one of the last countries to abolish slavery. there are a lot of things to correct, but i want to assure you i am not distorting any side of the story. i would not be at harvard if i was.

the point about black people in positions of leadership, frederick douglass was a prominent abolitionist. it was the most photographed black men in america and although he escaped from slavery and was a fugitive, frederick douglass lived a very prominent existence in the north. he was one of the most successful black people of this generation and there were other black people who were free at the time who owned property. some of them were quite wealthy. does that mean racism was not so bad before the end of slavery for like people? does it mean when frederick douglass became an ambassador to haiti when he had a mission trip with every lincoln in it is of jim crow when white southerners were killing black people at the nation was deciding it would go back on the promises to black people, when black people became

disenfranchised even though they earned the right to vote? was -- does that mean racism was not a problem? we had to get away from taking the evidence of individual black success as proof america does not have other problems. the last thing i will say is if you have -- if you know the history of colonialism, in every colonized part of the world where europeans took control of the natural resources of countries and africa and extracted the labor of people often in brutal ways, they put in power a class of people who were black to keep charge of things. these were the leaders who lived amongst their natives and kept them in check. the america we had since the 1960's, and number of black people first who entered into congress, entered into corporations. although this black people are counted and excellent, america

has been very keen to select a specific black people to represent a multiracial america. clarence thomas is a good example of this, a person whose politics are a representative of black people, but ronald reagan wanted a black person to represent a conservative point of view, that was his choice. no problem. do not be confused about the evidence of exceptional black people for the massive racial disparities we have in this country that go back 150 years. something had not improved in terms of the capacity for most black people to catch up to their black counterparts. you might think that is because black people make a lot of bad choices. i would argue that elective poor and low income white people also make bad choices. their choices are not as legal, nor are they punished in the marketplace. that is another conversation i am happy to have.

host: ollie is in virginia. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. thank you, professor, for being here today. thank goodness mentioned about education -- you mentioned about education. i have conducted a lot of -- i am from africa. what they said to me is you have sold your soul to the white man. i don't like that because i don't know the answer. the only questions i have is why would somebody want to go down there with a gun. that is not a transaction, you are kidnapping people. can you explain to me, did african sell their people were not -- africans sell their

people or not? or classism in the united states, if you can expensive thing about classism or colonialism. if you go to -- some of the countries have oil. you do not want to see what they do to the environment over there. they destroy the environment. can you explain the education of black africans selling their people? guest: the first answer but africans selling their own people, we have to unpack this. i don't want to sound like i'm talking down to people. africans were not a single people. you have hundreds of tribes of different languages. as a consequence of three old

histories, meaning the birth of civilization begins in africa. these people don't see themselves as a single community in the way we say africans sold their own people. it is true that people of different tribes who often warred with each other did in fact take the prisoners of war and captives of war and those were the people that when the portuguese showed up in the 15th century and said god had given them a right to gain access to the gold of africa and they want to do work out a deal with african elites, where their people they could lend to them to dig in the gold mines, that is when this began. it was not long after that many european powers began to get involved in the gold trade and in transatlantic slave trade. to clarify this even further, europeans are not one. we understand that germans versus english, english versus the french, certainly russian

versus the west. we understand that. to say europeans sold their people is nonsensical. europe is a collection of nationstates with different negligence, different tribes, at different histories. they have murder themselves to smithereens as well as enslaved each other over a conflict largely sometimes having to do with religion. we should apply the same sophisticated understanding of europe and the way europeans treated each other before black people got involved to the way we understand how africans others differences engaged in the slave trade. i will leave it there because that is the most important aspect. host: with go to the let's go to darius, good morning. caller: being a professor of history and race, one thing i

thought about is how we can stop the classism and lower the gap between the money within the economy, lower income areas mainly like cities and other areas. i thought that would be nice to speak about. also, do you have alopecia and how does that affect you? guest: i don't have alopecia. i can't speak on that. on the point about addressing, i guess you are saying the problem of poor people and the environmental issues that poor people face whether they are white or black or asian or latino in this country is a good question. i think there is a lot of room in this country for recognizing the shared conditions of lower standards of living for poor people in america regardless of the racial background.

i would encourage people to look at these histories as ways of understanding the way race was invented to divide people coming together around their shared interests. in the 1600s, the reason we invented a lot of this was to keep whites from seeing their enslaved african counterparts as brothers and sisters who had a shared concern or a shared set of grievances against the plantation elite who were exploding -- exploiting workers. i can walk you through every century of american history and point precisely to the way the race was used to keep white people from seeing their fates linked to the conditions of black people including in states from where some of the callers have called in from who have been told by the republican representatives that medicaid expansion is terrible for them because it socialism and yet, these are the same white people who suffer from lack of access

to health care and medical treatment. that's a consequence of the history of what amounts to a situation or racial wedge. there is a lot of opportunity to the callers point for learning these histories in ways for people to actually come together to make this country a healthier, more productive, safer, environmentally sound place if we can stop allowing racism to be used as a wedge against us. teaching these histories, the reason why some of my republican opponents but people in that committee who work with republicans blaming me for teaching about racism, the reason they don't want this is in part the way you make a dividing strategy work is to keep people uneducated and ignorant about how the world actually came to be. host: all right, professor of history race and public